Ubuntu on PowerPC ... kind of a bust
I wrote a long post (not up here yet) about how Ubuntu Linux for PowerPC could potentially save G3 Macs from OS 9 obsolescence, principally because modern browsers won't run on anything older than OS X.
Boy was I wrong.
Ubuntu ran great on my iBook G4, which shipped with OS X 10.3, by the way, and for which I really don' t need Linux to save it. It was the smoothest boot of a live-CD Linux yet, on Mac or PC, but for a laptop designed from the ground up for OS X, and which runs quite well on it, the use of Ubuntu is strictly a geek curiousity.
So I tried Ubuntu on two Macs that could actually benefit from Linux and the modern apps that go with it.
An old Power Macintosh G4 tower booted Ubuntu all right, although it did take awhile (slow CD drive). Sound came through fine, as it always does with Macs and Ubuntu. I couldn't get Ethernet working, but I also didn't spend a lot of time on it. But when I tried to start Open Office, the whole thing crashed. It does have at least 128 MB of RAM, by the way.
Today I tried an iMac G3 500 MHz slot-loader with 128 MB RAM. I got the sound, but after 20 minutes, nothing from the CD, not even a full boot. Now I could have let it run for an hour, and I just might do that at some point, but not booting off of a live CD after 20 minutes?
Maybe Xubuntu will work better, but I'm not holding my breath.
No, Ubuntu is NOT a saver of old Macs. If there's a lighter Linux for PowerPC, that might be worth trying. Otherwise, try to shoehorn OS X in there, or stay with the swift and the brave OS 9.2.2.
That's this doctor's recommendation ... and yes, I only play one on TV.
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Steven Rosenberg aims to learn what he does not know. He writes about it here.
Steven Rosenberg aims to learn what he does not know. He writes about it here.
Okay, so booting older G3 and G4 Macs with 24x to 32x CD reading speeds isn't especially viable, but wouldn't most people trying to repurpose these aging Macs with Linux be far more likely to install it on the hard drive? Have you tried that? (Too bad Ubuntu doesn't support booting from an external FireWire drive - or at least it didn't when I tried it in 2006.)
Just to note: (and it is worth noting since it's horribly documented by the Ubuntu people) The Ubuntu LiveCD requires at least 256MB of RAM to work properly. It's no surprise at all it ground to a dead stop on your 128MB iMac. There's actually an alternate installation .iso for machines with less then 192MB, and it's mostly intended for setting up *servers*.
Your points are well-taken. I have run Ubuntu on an older PC, but it had 256 MB of RAM. I've got to play with Ubuntu more, but I've grown fond of Xubuntu on the PC -- it's quite fast from a graphical standpoint. I'm going to try that on Power PC. Even with Ubuntu, though, it seems that it should at least run with a swap file on a 128 MB iMac. And I just checked the Power Mac G4 I crashed on, and it has 256 MB RAM and is running at 500 MHz. If Ubuntu can't run in those specs ... well, that's a problem. I'd be wary of installing on the HD if I can't even run the live CD. I grant you that the CD-ROM drive on the iMac G3 is probably very, very slow, but 20 minutes and nothing? That is tough.
I could try the alternate install of Ubuntu, but I'm going to sample Xubuntu first. I need to do more Ubuntu vs. Xubuntu tests. I'm wondering what the "ideal" setup for Ubuntu is as far as processor speed AND graphics capability. It seems that many of these graphically intense Linuxes need a lot of horsepower to run well. It makes Linux, in its full-flowering form, sound just like ... every other OS out there. But cheaper, of course.
I've got Ubuntu 6.10 running on my daughter's iMac rev B w/ 128 MB RAM. It's no speed burner - booting take minutes - but it is usable from the hard drive and it gives her Firefox, among other things.
That makes me feel better. I guess I should've let the live CD run for a lot longer. But as I said, if I can get a faster download today (they were slow as mud yesterday), I'm going to try Xubuntu for PowerPC. ... the download just started.
But thanks, Ubuntu users, for reading these posts. I'm torn, at the moment, between the various Ubuntus and Puppy Linux for PC. And the Ubuntu community is one of the main reasons to go with that camp -- those forums are really terrific.
I played with ubuntu on a IMAC G3 DV 400 mHz. I had problems booting from the live cd too. It was way too slow. However, I did get it to install onto my hard drive using their internet install, it even found my airport card after a lil' bit of effort. It is now set and can boot both OS X and ubuntu
Dual-booting is definitely the way to go. I didn't know there was an Internet install, but that is a good way around the slow-CD problem. I'm glad to see some G3 users reporting back with good results. New drives and extra memory, especially for Macs of this vintage, are so inexpensive, it makes sense to put a big ol' drive in there, max out the memory and see what you can do.
I'm typing this on a 400mhz powermac G3 B&W running Xubuntu 6.10, and it is quite responsive. I can do just about anything I need to do on this system. In many ways it is more resposive than my Imac G5 that's running Tiger. Do a proper install of Xubuntu and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
Whatever happened to Yellowdog Linux? Didn't they reverse engineer G3 PowerPC PCI Macs to run on their distribution? Perhaps that would be a way to use an up-to-date web browser on an older Mac. Version 3.1 might work on a G3. Version 4.0 on a Quicksilver G4. The latest is Version 5.0. The various versions were optimized to run well on the PowerPC technology in the Macs of their day. Perhaps Firefox would have no conflicts with an earlier linux kernel in one of the earlier versions of Yellowdog. Might be worth a try.
I had Ubuntu running on a 333MHz iMac with under 256MB RAM (I forget the exact amount). I never tried it from the "Live" CD, I just installed it straight onto the hard drive. It was certainly no speed demon, but it was usable for basic tasks.
I have tried both Debian and Yellow Dog Linux and they were amazingly fast on my Power Mac 7300 (200 MHz, it was even before the G3 era), I never bothered with Live CD's though, because you miss out on too much.
Which Ubuntu live CD did you try? I had a similar experience with a tray-loading 333 MHz G3 -- the screen went dark when X started, and I waited a long time before giving up. I think this was with Ubuntu 6.06. It seems that the default xorg.conf contains a bad modeline, so the monitor blanks in self defense. I was able to boot OK without X. I found reasonable advice at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=82866 and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=82517 .
Hope this helps,
Bob
In order to get an older PowerPC Mac to install Ubuntu, especially one with limited RAM, it is best to use the Alternate-Install CD for the distribution that you want. There is no difference in included software, so it really saves time in the long run.
In my experience, 9/10 times the machine won’t handle the Live CD, even if the specs say it should. I have taken to just using the Alternate-Install CD as a matter of course.
Here are some links to download .ISO images for Ubuntu:
Current version:
Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy Eft) - Alternate install CD
http://osmirrors.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/edgy/ubuntu-6.10-alternate-powerpc.iso
Xubuntu 6.10 (Edgy Eft) - Alternate install CD
XFCE desktop uses less resources than the standard Gnome desktop, so a specialized distribution is available for it:
http://xubuntu.elasztik.hu/edgy/xubuntu-6.10-alternate-powerpc.iso
Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) Daily Build
The latest version of Ubuntu is Feisty Fawn (due in April). It is still in beta testing, so it is not the most stable. Daily builds can be downloaded from here:
http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily/current/
Hope this helps those trying to resurrect older machines. I have found that I can install Tiger 10.4 on anything down to a G3 Blue and White. Beige and below work much better with Ubuntu / Xububtu.
Enjoy!
Hello Everybody, I was having the same problem mentioned at the beginning of this Post, and Finally found the solution, I add here the link with the info. Hope help somebody.
The problem: Installing ubuntu 7.04 in an iMac DV 400 Mhz 128 MB of RAM, the screen became blank and stops tne installation there.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=405934
regards!!
Javier