The end of the iPod, the cult of gPodder and the beacon of freedom

I am also a member of the gPodder faithful. I found it in the Ubuntu Software Center (remember when it was just synaptic?), looking for an easier way to catch some Cnet podcasts. Ubuntu 9.10 only has it at version 0.16.1, so I may be missing some features of Debian Sid.

I also wanted to get a Ogg capable mp3 player, I got a 8GB Samsung YP-Q2 for $60 at Target, the only disappointment is that to get video on it you have to use the wretched Windows software to convert the file to Samsung's proprietary version of mpeg4, and that using the included software to rip to Ogg does not put any tags on the tracks, making it useless for music. Fortunately I use Asunder in Ubuntu and my music is usable. I think now 5 people use Ogg to listen to music.

I'm looking forward to trying to hack my girlfriend's old ipod mini, I want to put the open firmware on it and replace the drive with something solid state. Have you tried uploading the open firmware to your ipod? Most of the old ones are supported, try: http://www.rockbox.org/

Have you considered getting rid of the Apple software on your iPod and replacing it with Open Source?

Look at Rockbox.

See http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9981

I have looked at Rockbox, but anything that looks that difficult just isn't worth it.

Even with the navigation issues, I'm a lot happier carrying around a $20 MP3 player rather than a $300 iPod, no matter what the Apple hardware is worth in its sixth or seventh year of life.

At the $20 price point, I don't expect it to play ogg or flac files, but I'd sure like to get something in the $50-$60 range that has that capability.

Funny thing about the Centron player I have. It's supposed to play only MP3 and WMA, but I think it will play WAV. I have to test it with that, and I might also drop an ogg in there just to see what's what with that.

I also need to look up whether or not there's upgradeable firmware in the Centron Craze.

My argument with the iPod isn't singular. I'm against the lock-in of iTunes, but I'm also against the whole idea of an audio player costing $100-$400. I think it should be more $20 or $30.

I remember thinking that the iPod wouldn't take off until you could get one for $50. Didn't work out that way.

I switched to a IAudio 7 because I was sick of the virtual gymnastics I had to do to use any ipod. The IAudio also supports ogg and drag/dropping of files. Gpodder is perfect for syncing on this player. the other thing I love about Gpodder is being able to upload my podcast list to their web service my.gpodder.org.

You mentioned the sansa clip,the Sansa Fuze supports ogg also and sell for around 40-50 on ebay.

"Others chafe at the restrictions placed upon the user by Apple." I am of this group also

Hi,

I also never understood why people are spending so much money for a device they just use for playing music.

I'm satisfied with my cheap mp3 player (Trekstor iBeat Organix) even though it has some stability issues (it sometimes hangs up when playing mp3s with long filenames or filenames with special characters).

I'm using rssowl to download podcast and I copy them to my mp3 player with a little script that I execute via Device Manager in Kubuntu. (if anyone is interested: http://neuntoeter.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/adding-actions-to-the-device-notifier-widget-in-kde-4-3/)

regards,

Volker

Well, to be fair about Rockbox, it's only difficult to get it on some devices. Usually it's pretty easy to use afterwards (on players with mature support, anyway). Of course, you said that the principle of your Ipod being too expensive is more your objection at this point. I don't blame you for not buying one on principle, but if you already have it, it seems a bit late for that. :-)

However, the Sansa Clip and Fuze both have really good sound (better than any Ipod), and are reasonably priced, with the 8GB Fuze currently going for around seventy or eighty dollars (perhaps up to a hundred from some brick and mortar sellers) with other models selling for less. They will also play FLAC and ogg files, and the Fuze will play video files (small screen, but kind of neat anyway). The Fuze in particular also has a nice interface.

Cowon players are also pretty neat, with the ability to play ogg and FLAC files, as well as video, and very good sound quality. Some of them are fairly pricey, though. A 16GB D2+ can be had for between a hundred and thirty and a hundred and sixty dollars. Cowon players don't have as slick an interface as Sansa players, but sport more memory, larger screens, and more powerful processors.

Generally, what you really pay for on any of these is more flash storage. Interestingly, all of the players that I specifically mention above, though, have expansion slots for more flash memory. The Fuze and Clip both have slots for MicroSD and the D2+ can take regular SD cards (including SDHC). So you can always add space to your collection, and even swap out sets of music. There are supposed to be albums sold on MicroSD cards at some point, but only in MP3 format, which makes it totally not worth it by my reckoning. If they sold them as FLAC (or even WAV) files on non-volatile memory, I'd at least consider it, although the tiny size of MicroSD cards is a bit unnerving when you think of losing the album.

I have a clip, and it's cool. I got it from woot for $10 I think, it's a 2g. They often have them, I'd keep an eye out.

That said, the interface is kind of annoying. It's not terrible, but the screen is pretty small, and you can never see all of the song title. It scrolls, which is fine, but it scrolls slowly. I listen to a lot of podcasts, and often the title is long and the date in the title is at the end, so I can sit there for 10 or 15 seconds waiting for the important bit to come into view.

On the other hand, that's the only thing wrong with a $10 player.

What annoys me about many of these players is that you supposedly can't replace the battery.

I can understand my $20 player having a limited life. Eventually the battery will go and maybe the flash memory will die.

But when you're talking about $60-$80 for a player, you kind of want to at least be able to replace the battery.

iPods suffer from this issue as well - they're designed not to have replaceable batteries or memory.

I know in the older ones, at least, including my $300 model, you can replace the spinning hard drive and the battery, even though you're technically not supposed to and are encouraged to just pony up for another iPod.

Disposability only works if stuff is really cheap, in my opinion, and for me that means $30 or less.

If you have an ear for music at all, a cheap mp3 player cannot be compared to an iPod for sound quality. Stick it through a decent amplifier and listen.
Yes the management software for the iPod is clunky and restrictive. but and its a big BUT Apple introduced this device in spite of opposition to it on the home front from the media moguls of the music industry. Be aware that music, music videos, podcasting free educational material from leading Universities all prospered because of the iPod and it's later incarnations. The inbuilt database is really cool in the way it handles the many different folios you acquire over time. I should like it to be less restrictive, I don't see the demise of the iPod coming any time soon. Especially not from Linux whose main claim to fame on handling disparate types of media is that it can't! Media handling is where Linux falls down. Every new Linux OS I install I 'hope' will prove a change may come. No sign yet though.

This cheap Centon player sounds pretty good. Not revolutionary, but good enough.

And I'm not all that enamored with the sound of the iPod. It could be a lot better, especially for the money.

The EQ on all of these players, iPod included, is terrible. I'd rather have a real equalizer in software with the ability to really boost the bass, which I generally find quite lacking in both the iPod and the other player.

And despite warnings that these players can harm your hearing, I find that there isn't nearly enough power for good dynamic range. You pretty much have to pump them all the way up to hear in a noisy environment. If you use some kind of external amplifier, such as a car audio system, you're better off. But just with headphones, there's not enough power.

Regarding media types. Linux does OK, not great. True enough. I'd like to do audio all in FLAC, which Linux handles expertly.

As far as production-quality video, I think we'd all like to see a free, open format for EVERY system out there.

Umm, if you have an ear for music, you'll notice that all Ipods, from the cheapest to the most expensive, sound mediocre; not terrible, just mediocre. Each of the three models of player that I mentioned in my previous post, from the cheap Sansa Clip to the more expensive Cowon D2+ sound better than any Ipod ever made. So, no, audiophiles do not choose Ipods based on sound quality. The best thing Ipods have going for them is the user interface.

Another factor in sound quality is what kind of earphones you use. Most players come with semi-cheap, mediocre earphones that sit in your earlobes just outside your ear. If you really ever want to hear just what your MP3 player is capable of, then you'll need to listen to it with a decent pair of inner ear phones, and you'll have to wear them correctly. There are some models for as low as around twenty five dollars that aren't too bad, but for sound that is closer to the best they can do, you'll need to go to around the seventy to two hundred dollar range (there are nice ones that cost even more, but reviews don't really seem to rate them any higher, and I am not spending that much money on earphones; a hundred and fifty? maybe; five hundred? no way). As I said though, you can do OK for twenty five dollars.

It's been a while since I ran across a media type I could not make work in Linux. Between all the codecs that ffmpeg has made available, everything else that VLC can handle, and the use of some Windows codecs, I usually don't have much trouble. Of course, when given a choice I tend to favor open standard media types, like FLAC and ogg.

So you could have just formatted (reinitialized) your iPod to FAT32, what's the big deal?
I've tried 4 different MP3 players out there and, BY FAR, the Sansa Fuze beats everything else.
For 80$ you can find an 8GB Sansa Fuze, featuring:
-MTP protocol and FAT file system so it's easy to manage its library.
-integrated mic so you can record voice, I find it really useful when I need to take notes and I have no pen and paper around.
-FM radio receiver
-USB recharging, long-lasting battery probably as good as the ipod's.
-It's tough. I dropped it several times and it still doesn't show any sign of deterioration.
-A decent user interface as good as the ipods' that uses a scroll wheel. (I could have installed rockbox but I hate the rockbox interface)
Drawback: doesn't play OGGs.

It's about as big as the iPod nano but slightly wider for a bigger screen size, and it packs more features for half the price. I am seldom very happy or impressed with products that I buy but this is one of them.

and +1 for gpodder

I think we're at the point now where we can start ripping everything to lossless FLAC. I'm surprised the Sansa Fuze doesn't play Ogg. I thought the Sansa Clip+ played Ogg and FLAC.

I did end up reinitializing the iPod 30 GB Video player as FAT32 with iTunes on a Windows PC, and now I can also manage it through Rhythmbox in Linux. I haven't yet tried gPodder with the iPod (I'm using iTunes for podcasting for the time being) mostly because I'm doing a bit of distro-hopping at the moment and just settling in with Debian Squeeze after many months with Fedora 13.