Umpire comments on the weird play
This is 3B umpire Charlie Reliford, who we believe is the crew chief, talking to a pool reporter. It pretty much jibes with what I posted here earlier,
``We had about six rules involved here. ... As Felipe Lopez goes by second base, the home plate umpire (Larry Vanover) couldn't tell if (Lopez) touches the bag or if the out is recorded when (Lopez) touches the runner. And that made a difference in whether or not the run counted. If (Lopez) had touched the bag -- and we determined that that was an unmistakable act of an appeal -- the run wouldn't have counted. The extra time it took Lopez to tag the runner (Pierre) allowed the run to score.
``Joe (Torre) came out and said, `You know that run counts.' But we couldn't make that call until we knew exactly what we had at second base. They could have gotten teh fourth out with an appeal at third base (a player in possession of the ball touching the bag), but they didn't do that before leaving the field.''
And in case anyone wonders why they have bench coaches, credit for the run goes to Bob Schaefer.
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090412&content_id=4239682&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la
If Lopez had stepped on 2B BEFORE Ethier reached home plate, why would it have been necessary to determine "that that was an unmistakable act of an appeal...?" Stepping on the bag would have recorded the third out before Ethier scored, thereby ending the inning, and making the fourth out irrelevant. Or am I missing something?
Brooklyn Dodger -
The act of stepping on the base with the ball after a batted ball has been caught on the fly is termed an act of appeal.
I can't understand for the life of me how in the world we get credited with a run scored. I'll take it, no doubt but the way I look at it, Pierre was forced to get back to 2nd base, He's out whether Lopez steps on second or tags him before he gets to the bag. It's a double play and it's a force out. 3 out and Ethier's run doesn't count. Just like someone catching a fly ball for the 3rd out.
I never heard of a "fourth out rule".
It's pretty clear in the MLB rule book. Check out 710.d below.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/07_the_runner.pdf
Old Brooklyn,
Since Lopez did not step on the bag, Pierre has the option of returning to 2B, and therefore I don't believe that he can be declared out until either the bag is stepped on or he's tagged. Since he was tagged after the run scored, only an appeal at 3B (since Ethier didn't tag before going home) disqualifies Ethier's run. At least, that's how I interpret it.
Larry,
You may be correct. However, I don't understand how stepping on 2B would be considered anything more than a force out. I would think that the appeal would have to be on the runner at third, and that stepping on that bag would be the equivalent of an appeal. But I'm not an expert on obscure rules, so really, I'm clueless.