I Hate The Immigration Debate
And this interminable, convoluted lede from a Washington Times story will tell you why:
More than 100 minutemen showed up en masse in Phoenix to counterprotest a pro-immigration group that sought to shut down a local furniture store for hiring off-duty deputies to keep illegal-alien day laborers off its property — and they have pledged to come back every weekend.
What is it about this debate that attracts the most obnoxious, crazed elements from all sides?
To begin, we have a furniture store in Phoenix that decided it doesn't want to be a pickup spot for day laborers (read: illegal immigrants looking for work). That seems entirely understandable -- what business wants its parking lot overrun by loiterers? So the store hired off-duty deputies, as is its right, to police its grounds.
This should not be a controversy. Private businesses are fully entitled to use their property for ... private business. They have no obligation to provide free organizing spaces for day laborers, skateboarders, petition-gatherers or anybody else.
But various pro-immigration activists, who seem to come endowed with an overwhelming sense of entitlement, apparently believe that illegal immigrants not only have an inalienable right to be in the U.S., but also to organize and gather wherever and whenever they please, even on private property. So, naturally, they're protesting the furniture store's decision to hire private security.
At which point enter the so-called minutemen, who are right in this instance, but can be downright scary in their view of every perceived slight as evidence of an "invasion." And now this poor store, which probably never wanted to do more than sell furniture in the first place, finds itself playing host to the screamers and shouters on both sides -- with no end in sight.
This incident calls to mind the insanity in Simi earlier this summer, when pro-immigration activists abused the notion of sanctuary by putting an illegal immigrant up in a church, and anti-immigration activists abused basic decency by marching upon the church in an effort to perform a "citizen's arrest."
Then as now, the wackos tend to dominate the debate -- which is why the debate never goes anywhere.
Chris, without people like the Minutemen, there would be no debate. Middle-class people like me had no voice about the immigration issues.
I have been concerned about what I have seen happening to the San Fernando Valley for the last 15 years. Finally, a man named Glenn Spencer started speaking publicly about the illegal immigration issue and we finally had a voice. You are wrong that people who NON VIOLENTLY care about what's happening to our schools, hospitals, and jails, are whacko's. I am a 40 year old mom with 3 kids who would not send her kids to the same LAUSD schools that I attended because of what's happening with illegal immigration. Every issue has it's passionate supporters. Thank goodness there are people willing to do what it takes to get the word out. The Minutemen have been villified but they are NOT against immigration, NOT violent, and NOT supremecists, they are against ILLEGAL immigration. All they are trying to bring attention to is the enforcement of our laws.
I don't think a parking lot in front of a store open to the public is legally considered private property; hence solicitors and petittioners in front of you favorite local market. Wackos they may all be but where do you draw the line to the right to assemble. And as an aside - while Cynthia certainly has her right to think, wish and choose she certainly doesn't know or understand these modern Minutemen - a chilling group to all of our rights.
Hi Ted,
Maybe we have a lawyer in our midst who can speak to the legal question. But I know that certain stores, like Costco, prohibit all petitioners. And I remember a flap a year or two ago when various retailers weren't allowing the Salvation Army or other charities to solicit in front of their locations. So it seems that the furniture store is acting well within its rights -- if not, the protesters would probably have called the cops long ago.
Best,
Chris
To Chris Weinkopf. Pardon my gullibility, but, this debate about illegal immigrants will never end because there are segments in our government and political offices who stands to gain a lot with the hispanic vote. There is a way to stop all this nonsense. Put into effect the same immigration laws enacted and currently used by the Mexican government. Here they are.
GUIDELINES FOR IMMIGRATION LAWS IN MEXICO.
. There will be no special bilingual programs in school.
. There will be no special ballots for elections.
. All government business will be in our language.
. Foreigners will have no right to vote no matter how long they are here.
. Foreigners will never be able to hold public office.
. Foreigners will not be a burden to taxpayers.
. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care or other government assistance programs. Foreigners can invest in this country but it must be the amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
. If foreigners do come and want to buy land, they can, but options will be restricted: they are not allowed waterfront property, that is reserved for citizens naturally born in this country.
. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations; no waving a foreign flag; no political organizing; no bad-mouthing our President or his policies. If you do you will be sent back home.
. If you enter the country illegally, you will be hunted down and sent straight to jail.
It is really not that complicated. Put the above set of laws to a vote let the people in our country speak and let see what is going to happen. Keep in mind, that this will affect ALL immigrants wanting to come here. Immigrants from European countries, African countries, Central and South America countries, East Slavic countries and Asian countries. Whatever the result, our Government should enforce what people want.
The US government does not want legalized immigration. Currently the SS system,
which is used to get jobs has no system for employers to check SS numbers so what
happens is this;
An illegal person gets an illegal SS card and takes it to an employer. The employer
looks on a quarterly published list of bad SS numbers. If the number is not on the
list the person is hired and pays state, federal and SS taxes. It takes two months
for the number to show bogus and two months to get on the list of bad numbers. When
the employer receives the notice of bad numbers he fires those employees, who go
down and get a new number printed out and come back for four more months. Why has
this not been corrected? Because our government receives billions in state, federal
and SS taxes that they don’t have to give back. If the US makes illegal, legal they
lose billions of dollars in tax revenue and more billions of dollars in replacing
the industries (mostly government departments and not for profits) that feed off
of illegal immigration. Legal immigration is in the same predicament as NAFTA. NAFTA
wasn’t bad until people on the east coast realized that billions in shipping dollars
were going away if NAFTA goes through as promoted. However, legal immigration is
easier to solve.
All the US has to do is promote homeland security the correct way. Homeland security
begins not on the surveyed borders of the US but on our continent. Homeland security
is the America’s. We don’t have to be the same nations under God but we do need
to be family and friends. We need to pull ourselves out Europe, the Middle East
and Asia. Put most of our resources into protecting and developing the America’s
democracy. Start by developing an America’s employment agency that handles employment
from employers anywhere in the America’s. People who get a work permit will move
their family with them to work wherever they are hired. If a Mexican national gets
a job in the US, or Peru or wherever they are employed that worker will pay a non
refundable tax that is divided between the employee’s country of origin and the
host working country. This tax will be used by the host country in part to pay for
health and education needs for the workers and their families while they are employed.
The tax received by the employee’s citizenship country will in part pay for the
employee’s retirement and senior years benefits. Guest worker visa’s are 3 years
or length of employment. If they are terminated from their employment for reduction
in work or disability the employer will pay their way home. If they are terminated
due to provable poor workmanship or legal problems they will be sent home by the
government and not allowed back on the guest worker list. The key is to never allow
citizenship to any guest workers. If they are a productive member of the society
they are working in, then their visas will be renewed. If not productive they can
go to their society of origin.
Today the US is a welfare nation. Everyone wants someone to give them something
for nothing. Our middle class is getting smaller and welfare is growing.
People write that crime is up, cities are full of gangs, wefare spending is geting
out of hand and they blame it on ilegal immigrants. Not even close. Our governments,
State and Federal have allowed the Social Security system, welfare, not-for-profit
programs, labor unions, Education System and so much more to abuse our nations tax
dollars creating our own problems.
Employers can’t get employees because people want to be paid to stay home (welfare).
I know this doesn’t sound democratic but those getting subsidy from the government
should not be allowed to vote while drawing the subsidy. I am all for helping people
that can’t help themselves but when whole families are passing down the can’t-help-
myself gene to each other and we are developing a plague, I am a little concerned.
Look at the real culprit in our nations problems. Us, we think were free and living
our own will. One final comment. I'm setting in my new inexpensive house that
was built in the middle of an old farm. As I look acrossed miles of flat land that
used to be farms, I wonder where we will get our food in 10 years.