Lombardi, on the future
This is the last part of the Lombardi stuff I got a few days ago. To really understand this, you have to go back to last summer. Or, for those of you who were at the GM breakfast recently, you might have gotten a taste of this. Basically, it goes back to Lombardi's grand scheme for the future, in which he pencils in what he wants the Kings to look like, long-term. Players he thinks are going to be around a while (Kopitar, Brown, Johnson, Bernier, etc) are written into roles, some other players are projected and other spots are left open. Those spots, such as for a second-line center or a third-line winger, are what Lombardi refers to when he says he has ``boxes'' he needs to fill. So here's what he had to say, in regards to those boxes:
``When i look up and down, there's a few more boxes filled. Ideally. they're all homegrown players. There are still going to be some holes. Right now, Bernier and Quick are playing in Manchester. That's exiting. The one thing that shows up (as a negative) is the darn backend. That's a hard position to develop. That's why you take the swing at Hickey. It's thin down there. That's the only part where its like, `OK, at least I can see the forwards coming.'' I look at the D and there's too many open boxes. There are a couple kids in college I think are ready to turn pro but it's still an issue. Do i jump the gun and push a kid a little sooner? I'm not sure.
``We started with about 15 boxes open, then last year we were down to 12. Maybe now it's down to six or seven, but the problem is most of them are on the back end. It is still thin. When I go to Manchester, we have a couple guys who maybe get to that 5-6 (fifth or sixth defenseman) level, but I don't want to limit those kids. Unlike Purcell and Boyle at forward, we don't have anybody knocking on the door there.''
I'm getting a little dizzy.
He says alot things that are ambiguous and difficult to follow.
So only Boyle & Purcell are ready to make the jump next season.
How is he gonna improve our small defense. Draft, Trade, Free Agency?
Bottom line.
Lets just cut to the chase.
Can any of you guys shed some light as to how much longer this "rebuilding" thing will last.
Hate to be so pessimistic since the horse is long dead but honestly the Kings can't even be good at being bad. Back in November they missed an opportunity to grab Bryzgalov off the waiver wire because they were ahead of Phoenix in the standings. Then the Kings nose dive into the basement for 2 1/2 long months only to decide to finish the season strong just in time to capture 29th place and the coveted 2nd overall pick??? Way to go!!!
The "rebuilding thing" will last until December 9th, 2011 at 5:42am and everything will be sunshine and lollipops and milkshakes and unicorns. Wheee!!... Like magic... POOF!!... the Kings will be great... I can't wait until that magic day...
Richard, Thanks for all your posts! I know how you feel when you have to read these _____ comments that these ____ fans leave........but yes, I did get to have a little taste at the GM'S BREAKFAST........on what you mentioned on this blog...... we just need to be a bit more patient......DL is a real nice guy.........very open to his fans, and very talkative....not sure where these _____ fans get these weird impressions about him and his style of being a GM!
I have a very good feeling that he's going to acquire an decent nhl d-man at the draft. It's either that or sign redden and/or commodore. We can't just wait for these guys to pan out. He knows that. Just be a little more patient. Things will be very apparent this summer.
a couple of weeks ago, on this board, i believe, lombardi stated that he could see maybe four or five of the prospects making next years team.
that does not seem ambiguous to me, but then i'm not a lawyer.
Lombardi isnt rebuilding. He is building. Pretty much for the first time in memorable history we have a GM who isnt raping the system for immediate
(short term barely should be considered)success.
He started at the bottom where there was little to nothing and has built an infrastructure that is functional. The guy is Building something from nothing and its going to take longer than two seasons to do it right.
Nothing he says here is ambiguous. He has been extremely clear on what his plan is. Everyone but you seems to comprehend it.
Anthony- His point was that on D we don't have anyone after Harrold knocking on the doors this season and warranting a call up.
Whereas on F you can say that Boyle, Purcell, Zeiler, Moulson, Lewis, Murray and Gauthier got some exposure this season and are competing for spots next season.
On D the only guy I could see making a 5th or 6th spot is Drew Bagnall. And even then I'd see him more as a guy that gets called up next season due to an injury or to get some exposure. Not someone that could play a full 82 game NHL Season.
Sounds like DL's point was that his question/goal is to find a way to improve that via draft/trade/free agency provided it doesn't create more open boxes in other areas.
I think he means that Purcell and Boyle are the only two that are obvious that they are ready.
We'll definitely fill one of those boxes with our #2 pick, maybe a guy like Martinez will step it up, but i'd imagine DL will have to make a trade for a young dman especially with 8 picks in the first 3 rounds. I can't imagine him holding on to all of them
Anthony, you need to relax. Building a for long term success means growing your own talent, that takes awhile and we're doing that right now. Here are links to the current day powerhouses that have been at the top of the standings for awhile (or will be for awhile), you'll be surprised to see how they sucked for YEARS early on, but built and have been contenders for the past few years (or geared to be for the next few years). I remember watching these teams grow:
Red Wings:
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/det/redwings.html
Devils
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/nj/njdevils.html
San Jose Sharks
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/sanjose/sharks.html
Colorado/Quebec (though they've fallen off)
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/quebec/nordiques.html
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/colavs/avalanche.html
Pittsburgh Penquins
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/pittsburgh/penguins.html
This is a diverse range of teams, built almost exclusively from within, they had to lose a lot to get to where they are today, but no one can argue with their success (all are Stanley Cup Champs in the last 18 years)
A little faith and a bit of time will turn this around
Sorry, Sharks aren't champs yet, but that will probably change in June
Damn, you beat me to the punch 'nooch. I was going to mention Datysuk and Zetterberg in particular. Both had similar rookie and second seasons to a guy like Kopitar. They weren't the cornerstones of the team, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that if you took them off the wings tomorrow that the team would be any good. Kopitar even came into the nhl younger than those guys.
So yeah, rebuilding takes a while. Us Kings fans also ought to remember Dean's rebuild has only been for 2 years (1 if you consider that as he claims he didn't have all his people in place in the business side of things the first year to carry out his vision for the team). I think 3-5 years is a reasonable time frame. I personally think DL's rebuild really only started at the end of last season. Manchester looks a lot different now, as do the kings. I'll give DL another 2-4 years to see if his rebuild really takes hold...
Crawford's time, however, is up.
that all depends on who emerges in the next little while. if the draft is as good as everyone thinks on the D end then we may see someone who is able to step in and help immediately this next year, but there is no guarantee. Defense is a hard place to throw a kid into and expect him to play at the level that guys like Crosby and Oveckin play at. Its much different and in a sense harder because of how strong players are now and all of the great offensive players in the league. The saying "men against boys" comest to mind when talking about young Defensman coming directly into the league. Guys like Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson, and Doin Phaneuf are rare acceptions.
From what is looks like DL is saying that the offense is pretty much taken care of with only a few small holes to fill (like a strong second line center), it is probably going to be the defense that takes longer. I say that it will take 2-3 years for the Kings to be considered a contender. As for the playoffs, with any luck, they should be able to make it next year as long as they pick up a defenseman and limit the 7+ game loosing streaks. You can really only afford one bad loosing streak and it cant last more than 7-8 games, especially with the competitiveness of the league now. they really should have been able to make it this year but they just played so horribly for so many different stretches it was disgusting
Anthony,
Like you, I too am not an Attorney. If you were, all this dizzy type of talking would make sense to you. Also, you would know that Dean can not make public his intentions or they can and will be used against him come draft time and trading time. If you would expect Dean to reveal his intentions to the opposition, then anyone who would want you to represent them in a legal matter should be found guilty. He cannot, should not and will not tip his hand and give away his intentions. If he did, I shutter to think of the rant you would post at that. As far as the rebuilding process, I believe we should be further than we are (29th). But I believe next year we should be a promising contender for an 8th or 7th seed. I have not made my mind up on DL as of yet but come this time next year we should see some great improvement. Unfortunately, we are not the only team looking to improve our standings. There are 29 other teams that have talented prospects in their pipeline. Our competition is also improving.
Irish Pat - I believe you are referring to what is widely regarded as the end of the world by the Mayan calendar, it would suck if that was the case, but so fitting considering our recent woes.
DellaNooch,
Dude, that is funny. I wish I'd thought of that, but I was only sarcastically pointing out how ridiculous an impatient certain someone is on this blog. And by someone I mean Anthony. You know, the lawyer. Has a law degree. Like Lombardi. His hero. Admit it Anthony. You worship Lombardi. Yeah...
I was just on NHLPA.comlooking at players salaries and I know this will change after this season, but Cammy makes more than Crosby, Ovechkin and Getzlaf combined. Interesting.
as the saying goes, "you can' make a brownie out of s#!t." that's what the kings were when DT exited. see, the reason it's taking so long is because DL had to grow the ingredients, now he is processing the ingredients, and pretty soon he will bake the ingredients. once it's ready to serve, it will be most enjoyable.
Ok so for some reason I decided to spend the last few hours that should have been used to do real work looking into the Kings' prospects from the last several drafts.
The first thing that struck me was that two of the top 10 scorers in the WHL are Kings draft picks! Seriously! Bud Holloway of Seattle (83 points in 70 games) and Oscar Moller of Chilliwack (82 points in 63 games). Not to suggest that that's as nice as having a guy like Stamkos but if those two can translate their game to the NHL they will be very nice additions to the Kings offense.
Then there are other forwards in the system who could also pan out. Trevor Lewis, taken 17th in '06, is looking like a bomb with only 28 points in Manchester this season, but Dany Roussin, taken 50th in '05, had a good season in Reading with 57 points in 65 games and we will still have to see how Wayne Simmonds, who the Kings got at the end of the 2nd round last year, develops.
There is no question though that the defense in the system is weak. Beyond Hickey, Patrik Hensley may be ready to make the jump to the NHL next season, and I think he could be that Matty Norstrom-type defenseman. And then Alec Martinez, drafted last season, could be ready to come out of college and join the Monarchs as a puck-moving d-man next year.
The Kings are going to have to sign a defenseman or two this summer though because the defensive prospects are still a few years away, but the forward corps of this team is ready now and they have to get some playoff experience next season so they know what it is all about once the defense is caught up.
On the other hand, the Kings can have 4 very solid lines next season without adding a single free agent forward this summer. I'm assuming Cammy is gonna get traded to bring in a defenseman, and the four lines I see at that point are: Fro-Kopi-Brown; Boyle-O'Sullivan-Purcell; Moulson-Handzus-Holloway/Moller; Ellis-Armstrong-Ivanans. That is of course also assuming that either Holloway or Moller can make the team out of training camp.
I am very optimistic for next season, though it all hinges on Lombardi being able to trade Cammalleri for a solid defenseman and signing at least one or two others (come on, Dean, bring Redden to LA!).
This "rebuilding" the team/orginization should take another about 3yrs, which seems just about right because Bernier will mostl likely be playing with Manchester next season for his cont. developement, therefore by 2010 season, HOPEFULLY, Bernier becomes back-up goalie at first (don't wanna push him to the #1 too soon) then by 2011 he be our #1 man in net. As for Boyle and Purcell, I see them being with the Kings next season (as Mike Johnson said the samething too on radio after the Kings last home game). Boyle though is hurt badly with an upper body injury that will keep him out from the Manchester/Kings line-up until December comes around. Zeiler should be another one I believe they will be on the Kings next season doing the 4th line duty. Harrold, I believe he has earned his spot from the outlooks of how he was with the Kings partcially this past season. Ersberg I think will be the back-up goalie next season, as for I and many believe he has DEFINITLY earned it. But I would think though that the only way Ersberg would be back-up is if Cloutier's contract is bought out by the Kings in June (which would have to be a third of Cloutier's contract).
Hey Rich, seems like another possible piece of the future will be added to the fold soon!
http://www.miamihawktalk.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=41345&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100
with regards to Anthony, everyone has the right to be an idiot, it's just that some people use their right more than others...
Anthony i think you say smart things sometimes but you fPuck it all up by the other 20 comments you say in the middle. I hate staying up until the middle of the night watching the team lose, but it's like not very enjoyable if all you do is complain about everything that has gone wrong. i think if we wanted to blow the bank on making the playoffs for one year we could certainly do it (see NY Rangers, Atlanta Thrasher 2006...) but it's funner to start watching homegrown talent.
It's sorta like the olden days where you have a good core of people who've been together for a while. More importantly it's cool how even non-diehards can name at least 4 kids from farm squads.
I really don't think we're super far away from being a 5th to 8th seed next year
The things we all notice from watching games that you can't tell from the final score is the little things. For example, the Kings didn't win a ton, but during the games they fought back a lot, they're one of the top 6 or 7 teams in the league in scoring while down by 1 goal*...i know it's a dubious distinction, but i like a team that is young and learning to fight...
if we throw in a veteran, 2 solid defensemen, and maybe one of the young guns comes through, we've got a team that won't get behind early which is what 90% of our problem has been...
keep the faith....i look at this blog to feel good about the future, not to hear nonstop complaints. Criticism is okay, it's healthy, but let's not turn overly bitter about life here. Think about the teams, those who made the playoffs and those who didn't, who basically know their run has to happen this year or next year otherwise they have to rebuild...
* goto http://www.nhl.com/cgi-bin/superstats/process_stats.cgi?source=NHL.com&statType=team&seasonType=regular&season=20072008
it's awesome!
If we can't find a Dman why not keep Klemm around? If we can limit his time he has shown that he can play hard nose defense and he's shown that he'll make guys pay who try to enter the crease. Not saying he's going to be a savior but if he can continue to play it would be a cheap alternative until we can find out which one of the kids can make it to the big club.
I agree, to an extent. Klemm is the kind of guy you want back as 6th/7th dman. However, this really only means something if there are really good guys ahead of him. Which right now there isn't. But yeah, I say hang on to him. I prefer him to Dallman, even if Dallman's younger. I think Klemm's probably got something to teach to JJ.
I think if we retain him, bolster our D with a good fa or two, have a guy or two come up from manchester and be solid and manage to make it to the playoffs again before Klemm retires, then I get the feeling he could fill that role of clutch veteran. Something all successful teams have.
If Crawford ever puts him at wing again though I'll puke.
If we resign Klemm to a new contract he will be tutoring the young defence in manchester as he did this season. I dont know if Hickey is ready for NHL duty yet but if he is, he will be paired with Blake. thats leave us with lubo, jj,preissing,harold evt dalmann if DL does not bring in a free agent or two. Hickey will either play for the kings or go back to juniors because of his age. Hopefully DL will bring Commodore to LA who can play with Lubo and then you pair JJ with Pressing and use Harrold/Hickey as the 6/7 defenseman in pair with Blake. Up front I will go with sully,kopi,brownie fro,army and teddy, calder,boyle,ellis and ivanans,handzus,moulson/murray
I believe this will not be much of a problem after the draft. We'll take Doughty with the 2nd and I believe we'll trade up to the 6th or 7th pick and take Schenn.
After that, we'll still have plenty of picks to mess with to do a nice trade for a vet D man.
Just my take. That's is what I would shoot for. Thoughts?
So we're near the end of year 2 in a 5-6 year rebuild. Even DL admits there are still a lot of holes to fill. Like the way we didn't trade away our future at the deadline and we have a lot of picks for the draft. This gives flexibility to DL to make a trade for an impact player if one comes available.
Will be interesting to see what DL does to fill the holes on defense.
Klem is going to be 38 this year and was in the minors for all but a handful of games. Crawford's loyalty didn't even bring this guy in sooner and we all know how loyal he is to his guys. I think it's time to let him go and look to the youth. Whoever that is.
Whether we bring Klemm back or not, will have no bearing on anything. he's a 7th D'man at best. We need 1-6.
DL told us the way it is. We have no defense in the minors that we can count on to make an impact...other than Harrold.
That's why it's imperative that we draft D this year. As great as Stamkos may be, he's not what we need at this point. we need help on the blueline. Hopefully DL signs a good physical defensemen this summer. It will still come down to goaltending. I think next year Bernier will be with the Kings and will probably be #1. Just my thoughts.
Christa,
You are absolutely right. You can't rebuild something that was never built in the first place.
To all the people who bash Lombardi - do some homework, look at the Kings transactions history, look at the Kings draft history and look at the Kings regular season and playoff record.
No one has EVER attempted to properly build this team prior to Lombardi. I support his plan completely.
DL has plenty of "boxes" that need to be filled, I think we all know that.
Speculation has him taking Doughty first, but you have to consider the size of Pietrangelo in this mix. Size and grit are two things the Kings need STAT. It's a great opportunity for the Kings to add more young D with 4 of the top 7 Central Scouting rankings being Defencemen.
All the talk has been about the immediate need for a defenceman and who to draft as if he would step into Staples this year. However, you have to consider that very few of us really know how 'ready' these kids would be to step in. We know DL can find those diamonds in the rough and will take the kids who need a little more seasoning for the higher upside rather than the kid who would get here sooner but has a lower potential. Think about it... what does this team need with another potential 5/6 just to get him in NOW??
What do you guys think the odds are that he uses remaining pics to trade for a young established D man and says screw everyone and takes Jared Staal second overall??? (lol)