One target off the board

Damn It.
I was hoping that our illustrious GM would unload Lord Cammi and a few of our picks and prospects to get him .

But I hear the Chicago Blackhawks have good depth on the blue line too.

How about this.

To Chicago:
-Lord Cammi
-Lauri Tukonen
-28th pick Dallas
-32nd pick LA

To Kings:
-Ducan Keith OR Cam Barker OR Brent Seabrook
-11th pick Chicago

Anthony
The Blackhawks have no interest in trading any of their
young defense especially Keith (+32 and a future all
star as soon as next year) for a package that is basically crap. The Hawks have enough scoring up front
and have new use for Cammy. Tukonen are you joking?
The Hawks have drafted brilliantly the last 5 years
and are now ready to reap the rewards. They are looking to add a few veterans (Campbell or Redden) to
add to their core and move to the next level.

3.5 mill a yr. Thats a bargain for him. Dam

Scott Thornton
Rights to Thomas Zizka
and 32nd Overall

for Weber and a 1st!

I thought it would be interesting to show the teams that are pick deficient in this draft. They could be the teams most likely willing to trade their higher picks for "bulk" picks from the Kings in the top-3 rounds. The following list displays teams that have fewer than 7 picks in the 7-Round draft. Next to it is the highest pick overall that they do have.

This of course doesn't mean that the Kings are only looking to deal with THESE teams, but it certainly makes sense to call the team with 8 picks in the first three rounds (i.e. - The Kings) if you want to get into a deep draft you're currently lacking picks for.

Vancouver looks interesting although the Luc Bourdon tragedy might affect their thinking.

Teams Picks | High PK
Florida 4 | 31st
Minnesota 4 | 24th
Philadelphia 4 | 27th
Pittsburgh 4 | 120th
Carolina 5 | 14th
Dallas 5 | 59th
Edmonton 5 | 22nd
Montreal 5 | 25th
Vancouver 5 | 10th
Colorado 6 | 50th
Detroit 6 | 30th
NY Rangers 6 | 20th

Anthony You're giving up a little too much on that deal.

Rich,
I think this makes him even more attractive for a trade. He's locked up four years. He's making less money then Handzus. 3.5 a year aint bad.

I think we should send Michael Cammalleri, Lauri Tukonen, and our 28th pick to Atlanta for their #3 pick. Then take Drew Doughty and Zach Bogosian.

At the PK Calder party in Chicago last week Dale Talon said that had Toews not been injured for 20 games last season that the Hawks would have been in the playoffs. Talon went on to say that Toews is their best all round player.

I don't expect Dale to be wrecking what he has built. I am sure those young players see it as well and do not want to go anywhere. It's not so much about money anymore in Chicago, its about chemistry and winning.

Chicago is looking like where the Pens were 2 years ago, or one year ago if only they had made the playoffs this past season. I think the Hawks will do a lot more damage this coming season and I do not expect DT to make any dumb dumb trades and ehF with what he has achieved so far.

Cheers

Cheers.

Weber is exactly what the Kings need - won't pry him out of Nashville though.

If the Kings want to trade Lubo and/or Cammi I'd target Columbus or the Islanders. Both of those teams want to improve a lot this upcoming season and both have high end picks. Obviously going to cost more than the players but the Kings got picks to add to make it at least tempting for these teams (for example the Dallas first + the Kings second rounder + Lubo OR Cammi)

Why are all you guys thinking so small?

Come on now, get it right. It's Cammalleri, Tukonen, Giuliano, Zeiler, Roussin, Lukacevic, a 7th round pick in 2011, and a bag of pucks to Tampa Bay for the first overall pick... which we then trade to the Islanders for Bill Guerin - straight up! THEN we trade Cloutier and a couple of chee-tos to St. Louis for their first round pick... which we use to select both Stamkos and Filatov!!

There's absolutely no reason to hate on this trade proposal, so don't even perpetrate y'all. Deano - call me.

Weber would be a great pick up.

however I dont have alot of faith in Dumbardi. My guess is he makes no deal at the draft and we draft bogosian. Then he and that idiot Hextall will make alot of excuses about how they couldnt get a deal done and they cant sign any FA's and they cant get a coach. etc, etc

These two are clowns

What about signing Mike Commedore?

what is Tony Granato's status? is he still an assistant coach in Colorado? I'd love to see him behind the bench in LA

The hack that is Eklund has an interesting rumor about Cammi to Edmonton for Joni Pitkanen. They're basically the same age and Pitkanen's numbers are decent and he's a good size d-man. I think that's not a straight up trade for the Kings. They might want to get something else in there especially since he'd have to be signed.

CAR is having trouble signing Tim Gleason. Bring him back !

Suter... 4 years, 14M

Visnovsky... 5 years, 27.5M

and you wonder why the Kings decisions have been considered questionable at best.

LOL.

Tony Granato is the new head coach of the Colorado Avalanche, they brought him back.

Considering in the two seasons prior to Visnovsky's contract extension, he was outscored only by
Neidermeyer and Lidstrom (both of whom made/make a couple million more than Visnovsky over that period and now), his contract isn't such an albatross for a top of league offensive d-man. Personally, I think it's a little high for its length, but it is not, by any stretch, ridiculous or out of line with other contracts. There is (at this point in time) no comparison between Suter's and Visnovsky's contracts- going in to the contract negotiations Vis had scored over twice as many points as Suter had in his contract year and had been in the top 10 of D scoring; even with his off year, Vis is a 0.56 ppg player (over 7 seasons) whereas Suter is a 0.31 ppg player (over 3 seasons)

You're usually spot on with your assessments Marc, but, unless i'm missing some sarcasm, you're almost comparing apples and oranges on this one.

J,
Marc Nathan is right on with this assessment as well.

I agree with the earlier comment that we need to take a real roll of the dice and get drastic to obtain 2 first rounders and get schenn and doughty! WE NEED D and no FA are gonna sign here! There is no loyalty to the players in this organization, or at least thats the way it used to be! I hope DL is changing that and then we start to attract the FA's.

Actually, Marc Nathan is completely wrong and Anthony, like 99%, is also wrong.

The reason that you can't compare Suter to Lubo is that Lubo was about to become a UFA while Suter couldn't do so for 4 more years - he could have only been a RFA. Look at the difference between what Cammy got last year through arbitration (not a UFA) and what those with similar stats get through free agency. Suter didn't have the bargaining power that Lubo had.

And Anthony, this is just more proof that we need to build through the draft because it allows the Kings to have very good players who do not cause a big hit to the salary cap, like Suter.

Brian,
My problem is with this GM.
A couple of years ago, teams like Chicago And Washington were in the same position that LA was and is still in.
Greg Tallon & George McPhee have made some wise trades, free agent signings, and draft selections.
They're ready to move to the next level and be contenders.

Lombardi on the other hand hasn't been as smart.
He's still stuck in the stone ages.
This bull-sh_it never ending rebuilding process with no end in sight.
Most of whatever he's done would have gotten other GM's fired by now.
But I do believe his time will be running out after LA ends up in 28th or 29th place again.

Atta boy.

Goon Squad for GM!

Cheers

Anthony, I know how you feel and I just think that you are looking at the wrong things.

Don't look at current wins and losses. Looking at the Kings reserve list, picks and depth, I'd say that the Kings are farther along than the Caps and Hawks. Who will be the goalie for those teams that will take them to the cup? Chicago is very loaded with good young players and we will meet them in the playoffs for many years to come, in my opinion.

Just because Washington made the playoffs and the Hawks finished higher in the standings while not making the playoffs, it does not mean that they are closer to the cup than the Kings are. Instead of simply looking at the Kings' record and free agent signings who were meant to be fillers and have no impact on the future success or failure of the team, look at the big picture and analyze what the team and cap situation will be down the road - I promise you that it looks a lot better than most teams.

Lombardi will be the GM for many years to come and that's a very good thing - he wasn't brought in here to make the playoffs last year and then be right back to square 1 in 3 years.

Anthony,

You're obviously free to state your opinion (it is a blog afterall) but don't you see the argument that the Kings need to stink and get the resulting high picks to get this team going in the right direction? This is how you get Ovechkin(1st), Crosby(1st), Malkin(2nd), Lecavalier(1st), Barker(3rd), Toews(3rd), Kane(1st), etc. I mean what's the point of barely making the playoffs getting knocked out in the first round year after year after year??

I won't argue that the team was pretty lame to watch last year and hopefully the injection of some young hungry players will make the play watchable next year but the only way this team turns itself around is getting the high picks (top 10 atleast). We should be poor again this year and have another top-5 pick next year as most of our top prospects aren't ready (Bernier should be in Manchester and Hickey/Bagosian/Doughty should be in junior next year. I say the 09-10 season will be the first of many playoff years.

Cammy and Cloutier for Gleason and a 1st. Do it Deano and have me ride shotgun on this steal.

I appreciate being called 100% wrong, and I do admit that the UFA vs. RFA does play into this scenario, but I'm sorry, despite the fact that these are two very different kinds of defensemen, I still stand by the assertion that 27.5M for 5 years vs. 14M for 4 years just amplifies how much the Kings overpaid for Visnovsky, whose defensive deficiencies far outweigh his offensive contributions to a team that for the most part was dead last in the NHL close to the entire season.

How can anyone call 2 years a 'never-ending' rebuliding process?

Dave Taylor fed us that for years and years, so maybe people are still sour from that and attributing that to Lombardi. But honestly, the man has just settled in here if you really think about everything, especially the fact that he cleaned house after his first season here. This team looks very different than the one Lombardi took over... and while they may suck in the standings just as much, this team certainly has loads more potential than it did when he stepped in. For me, this upcoming season is the one to judge Lombardi on, not the last one. I don't expect us to be a great team yet, but I expect to get the sense we are burgeoning on something big.

Hell, Lombardi knew this draft was strong 2 years ago. He didn't pick up all these picks this season, he's been stockpiling for the last two seasons in anticipation of this draft.

How about we see what he does?

For ****'s sake, it's only 4 days away.

We've all been fans for yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaars of a bad hockey team. We put up with Dave Taylor shipping away all our talented youngsters and veterans for so long that I think it's not too much ask of ourselves to be patient a season or two longer. There is nothing 'never-ending' about this rebuild.

We are right smack in the middle of it.

Chill.

Anthony, i have a simple explanation. in the last four years, here are where the first picks for each team were:

LA: one #4 pick, three #11 picks.
CHI: one #1 pick, two #3 picks, one #7 pick.
WAS: one #4 pick, one #5 pick, one #14 pick... and Alexander Ovechkin.

you don't have to blame Lombardi for everything, Anthony. we've never had a #1 pick. until this year, we've never had a top 3 pick. chicago has had two, and washington got the fortunate opportunity to grab ovechkin. and chicago didn't even make the playoffs! if you really think that having those two great players automatically is better than having a loaded system, try exploring it a little.

if you want to finish between 7 and 10 every year, find another team to root for.

Speaking of the Blackhawks, here's an article discussing their GM and their rise this season.
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=366153

From reading the article, I think it provides hope on the direction DL is headed. When comparing the two teams here are some points to remember...

Tallon was promoted to GM a year before DL was hired. Prior to being GM, Tallon was hired as the asst GM, presumptively as heir apparent. He's had more time with the team.

The problems with the Hawks is similar to the Kings - lack of prospects, can't keep their FA, and can't lure any big name FA.

Tallon's first FA signings bombed. The flip side is that this enabled the team to draft at #1 and #3 the past two drafts.

His focus is on rebuilding the farm system and developing a strong foundation.

Since 2000, the Blackhawks have drafted in the top 10 six times out of eight. The Kings have only drafted once in the top 10.

The rise is slow but there is progress, espcially with their prospects and farm system.

Anthony- you crack me up. You're suppossedly a lawyer so I would think you would have some amount of logic. How can you can honestly look at Suter's and Visnovsky's numbers and situations at the time the contracts were signed and say Visnovsky's contract is bad? You are captain hindsight aren't you?

You're assertion that the Kings, Hawks, and Caps were in similar situations a few years back is total BS. While the Kings were scraping at the 8th spot year in year out, the Hawks and Caps flat out sucked and went into full rebuild mode years before DL took over for the Kings. Both have had numerous top 10 draft picks, and a couple 1st overalls along the way as well. Go look at their standings the last 5 seasons and you'll see what i'm talking about.

By your comparison, DL is doing a good job rebuilding from within. Like the Caps, he's stockpiled draft picks to fuel the rebuild- the first major year of the Caps rebuild (which was in 03-04, over two full years before DL came in) they had 13 picks, 7 in the first three rounds. This year the Kings have 15, 8 in the first three rounds.

What never ending rebuilding process are you talking about? At this point, the rebuild is at most 2 years in- look how long the Caps and Pens, Hawks were the bottom feeders of the league. I fully expect the kings to finish 28th-30th next year and have no problems with it (as long as they're playing the kids that is).

It's too bad your passion for the kings seems to be matched by your naivety of hockey operations.

Marc, I'm curious to get your take on how Visnovsky's contract compares to Souray's (6.25 mil), Gonchar's (5.5 mil), and Rafalski's (6.0 mil), more appropriate comparisons than Suter.

The Kings D sucked as a whole, (actually that should be hole)- the whole team was horrendous and Vis was certainly one of the worst of the bunch. He was only earning 2 mil this year so let's see how he does in the years to come, as the kings develop as a team, before fully judging his contract (if they don't trade him in the youth movement, that is)

J,
I'm still in agreement with Marc Nathan.
And BTW, did you bother to compare the Plus - Minus B/W Suter & Lubo-cookie and their ages.

Suter is 23 with a plus-3
Lubo is 32 with a minus-18
Lubo's new contract just plain stinks. It's too long and too expensive.
Do you realize that our two highest players are Lubo and Handzus. That's what you call a GM.

Sorry J, but Marc Nathan is right.
But I do respect your position on DL.

so i looked up Lubo's cap hit next year and compared it to others plus or minus 2 years his age ('74-'78) to see how his contract matches up.

for that age group, Lubo has the 8th highest cap hit. I only looked up the top 16. Here is how they are ranked:

NAME salary

CHARA, ZDENO 7,500,000
BOYLE, DAN 6,666,667
JOVANOVSKI, ED 6,500,000
TIMONEN, KIMMO 6,333,333
PRONGER, CHRIS 6,250,000
MCCABE, BRYAN 5,750,000
MARKOV, ANDREI 5,750,000
VISNOVSKY, LUBOMIR 5,600,000
HAMRLIK, ROMAN 5,500,000
SOURAY, SHELDON 5,400,000
GONCHAR, SERGEI 5,000,000
KUBINA, PAVEL 5,000,000
JOHNSSON, KIM 4,850,000
KABERLE, TOMAS 4,250,000
MCKEE, JAY 4,000,000
MORRIS, DEREK 3,916,667

I also added the total number of points for each player over the last 4 seasons. Lubo has the 5th most points of this group.

NAME PTS

GONCHAR, SERGEI 248
PRONGER, CHRIS 212
KABERLE, TOMAS 209
MCCABE, BRYAN 201
VISNOVSKY, LUBOMIR 195
TIMONEN, KIMMO 193
MARKOV, ANDREI 181
BOYLE, DAN 180
CHARA, ZDENO 178
SOURAY, SHELDON 148
JOVANOVSKI, ED 136
KUBINA, PAVEL 134
HAMRLIK, ROMAN 119
JOHNSSON, KIM 116
MORRIS, DEREK 109
MCKEE, JAY 30

To me his contract looks reasonable to what other similar comparables have received.

Lubo has the 8th highest cap hit and the 5th most points from this group. Where is the problem with his contract?

OH, here are some notable free agents of those born between '74-'78 and their cap hit this past season.

TARNSTROM, DICK 2,000,000
MALIK, MAREK 2,500,000
LILJA, ANDREAS 1,000,000
SALVADOR, BRYCE 1,400,000
EATON, MARK 1,600,000
REDDEN, WADE 6,500,000
ZYUZIN, ANDREI 1,400,000
ROZSIVAL, MICHAL 2,100,000

Anthony- first let me ask what do you think about this move- a defenceman coming off a year with these stats (7g, 31a, +40) signs a 4 year, 11 million dollar contract as an UFA- good or bad move?

Now to your ?- Of course I looked at their +/-, a stat that many consider rather useless. Sure, Suter's +/- was higher, but what does that mean- do you think Suter would still have a +3 if he were on the Kings? Kevin Dallman had a higher +/- than Suter- should DL sign him to a 4 year 14 million contract? Chara was a -21 a year ago with Boston, but does that mean he is no longer an elite defenceman. Be careful not to read too much into that stat.

Now about age- as I said above, I thought the contract was a little high for its length, and that is because of his age. I would've been happier if it was a 4 year contract, but what you need to look at is how the contract is structured. Often for older players the contract is structured such that he is getting paid less as he ages, but I don't know if this is the case for Vis. Regardless, proven performance and experience are more valuable than potential so Visnovsky producing at 0.56 ppg average over 499 games is more impressive than Suter's 0.31 average over 229 games- hence a more lucrative contract.

Okay, now back to my question. Now that you've hopefully answered it for yourself, let me tell you that those numbers are Tom Preissing's, a guy/contract that some on here have critized DL for signing.

J,
I see your point.
And you analogy on the Preissing scenario is accurate.
I hope, for the teams sake, that DL has a good day on Friday & Saturday.
I hope he drafts the right D-Man and makes that trade we're all waiting for (we have 15 draft picks to work with). If he doesn't, he wiil be judged harshly.
Then I would like to see him sign another D-man via free agency.

You're not the only person tired of hearing me complain. You can add me to that list as well. But this continuous losing is geeting to me.

Anthony and Marc - Give it up, you're so wrong about Lubo it's amazing, J's reasoning is making both of you look foolish (though that's pretty common for you anthony)...complain about Lubo dropping the ball this year, blame the coaching, that's fair, but you're reaching when you critize the GM for making that decision...I mean, look at what's happened, Preissing had a career year in Ottowa, comes to Kings and bombs this year...Lubo has several good years with the Kings, sucks this past year...Stuart starts the season off terribly and then goes to Det and becomes a rock star...Modry shows up Philly while they hadn't won in 9 games, he's part of a turnaround that results in a conference final with a strong defensive effort...DL is guilty of hiring and not firing Crawford soon enough,that's your only angle, deal with it.

I posted a rather lengthy reply to J. regarding Souray, Gonchar and Rafalski, but I see it didn't show up, and I'm too lazy to post it again.

Please don't lump me in with Anthony just because he happens to agree with my assessment on the overpayment of Visnovsky. I have nothing to "give up." I've watched hockey for over 40 years, I am aware of a player's value to a team, and I think the Kings over paid for Visnovsky. We'll see how easy it is to dump this deal as they try to deal him off, which, as stated in this blog and other places, is a distinct possibility. I have no delusions about Visnovsky's skill set, and think he's a reasonably sound offensive defenseman, but on a team that is bottom of the barrel, you are paying him an awful lot of money to be inept in the areas that the team needs help the most. The guy was a nightmare way more often than not last year, and as Gonchar was 2 years ago, perhaps it's an abberation and he will prove his worth in the coming five years, but unless blue is your favorite color, I would suggest not holding your breath.

Marc - I do agree that defenseman are getting overpaid, and his salary is high, it's the market right now though, and it will be even more ridiclous this summer...I think we're on the same page with Lubo...I'm hopeful he'll bounce back next year, but this could turn into a McCabe type problem.