• Maverick

    Nope, Absolutely not.

  • Matt George

    That was a no brainer.

    Hell no.

  • B

    Where is the HELL NO option? :)

  • Paul

    Yeah. Let’s not retire the number of a hall of fame defenseman. That shows a lot of class.

    Oh, wait. This is the L.A. Kings. I forgot.

  • wavesinair

    If blake really loved the kings, he would have tried much harder to sign. If blake had any thoughts of being a coach or gm with the kings, he would have tried much harder. If blake really cared about his kings legacy, he would have tried much harder. Blake simply doesn’t care very much. Then simply do NOT retire his jersey.

  • First Name Last Name

    If the Kings retire Blake’s number, I will never again support this organization because it does not stand for the things I value.

  • CiscoC

    Where is the Hell “expletive” No option?

  • king & king

    he a hall of fame defenseman base on what because he win a Stanley cup with Colorado or because of what he did with kings the last two season. When i look at a hall of fame he shouldn’t have a year or 2 years like blade have with kings. just base on the two years he have with the kings he shouldn’t be consider to be a hall of fame at all.

  • king & king

    he a hall of fame defenseman base on what because he win a Stanley cup with Colorado or because of what he did with kings the last two season. When i look at a hall of fame he shouldn’t have a year or 2 years like blade have with kings. just base on the two years he have with the kings he shouldn’t be consider to be a hall of fame at all.

  • king & king

    he a hall of fame defenseman base on what because he win a Stanley cup with Colorado or because of what he did with kings the last two season. When i look at a hall of fame he shouldn’t have a year or 2 years like blade have with kings. just base on the two years he have with the kings he shouldn’t be consider to be a hall of fame at all.

  • LA Knucks Fan

    Before this week, guaranteed.

    After this week, NOT for a long, Long, LONG time.

    If Rob Blake has even one-half a heart, I’d imagine he’s already regretting his (most selfish) decision.

    =) Hey Rob, enjoy San Jose, ya hoser!

  • Anonymous

    I would have said yes until he signed with the Sharks. Now I don’t know anymore – where’s the “Not sure” or “Maybe” option?

  • Screw Blake

    How can this organization ever be respected if they think people like Blake are the epitome and role model of what every King should be like; thus retiring his number? Blake’s number up on the wall means that we want all our young kids to look up to and try to be like Blake.

    Gretzky, Vachon, Dionne, Robitaille, Taylor: okay. let the kids play for the Kings like they did. No problem. Rob BLAKE? HELLLLL NO.

    I too will stop being a Kings fan as I will no longer respect this organization if they deem Blake a role model for our kids.

  • lakingzfan

    Paul is obviously Blake’s relative or something!

  • kluka68

    Absolutley NO !!!! There are two teams: Colorado and San Jose which can do this.

  • Goallum

    #4 should be worn by Thomas Hickey as soon as this upcoming prospect camp.

  • Baumgartner22

    list of Kings whose numbers i’d prefer to be retired instead of blake’s:

    #9 bernie nicholls
    #22 ian laperriere
    #21 tony granato
    #14 matty norstrom
    #7 tomas sandstrom
    #33 marty mcsorley
    #55 pavel rosa
    #40 barry potomski
    #43 vitali yachmenev
    #42 dan bylsma

  • Tim

    NO! Thomas Hickey your #4 is waiting for you

  • Reaper

    I can think of someone much more deserving of having their number retired first, Butch Goring anyone?

    Hell, I can think of quite a few much more deserving of havving their numbers retired before Blake. Bernie Nicholls, Tony Granato, Adam Deadmarsh anyone?

    Blake has had 2 nasty divorces with the Kings where he’s said one thing and did another and bolted for more money.

    Say no to retiring Blake’s number.

  • Daniel

    Just to add some positives to the negatives of the past few days, thought you may want to see what the Hockey News has to say about the Kings last draft:

    “A+, Los Angeles Kings When you begin the proceedings with the best defenseman in the draft, Drew Doughty, things are looking up. But the Kings consistently made tremendous picks that will help the franchise rebound from some tough times. Along with Doughty, the Kings got stud defensemen Colten Teubert and Vyateslav Voinov who will combine to give the Kings the best back end in four years; we all know how valuable stud defenders are. Not being satisfied with these picks, they also added the skilled Robert Czarnik and Andrei Loktionov along with the biggest winner in this draft, Justin Azevedo. All in all, the Kings did the best job at this years gathering and the future looks very bright in Tinsel town.”

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/16989-Mark-Seidels-Blog-2008-NHL-draft-grades-Part-1.html

  • PowrrrPlay

    What a ravenous fan base.

    I think RB knew when DL would not sign him for 4m that his jersey would never be retired as a King. But RB will make it into the Hockey hall of fame.

    Cheers

  • anonymous lurker

    Funny, funny, Baumgartner22. I was thinking of retiring #5 Zizka, so Harrold, you better start looking for a new #.

  • Crash Davis

    I think Doughty should get #4 as Blake was a guy he really liked growing up. It would mean a lot to Doughty. Doughty really likes #8 too from juniors but will have to negotiate with Ellis over that one. Maybe buy him a watch or something.

    Give Hickey another cool # like #14 or #33. Can’t remember if #6 is available these days. Greene’s gonna get #2 it seems, but that’s Teubert’s # from juniors. First come, first served.

    There is a 2nd # I think is very cool that’s not been worn since Pushkarev a couple seasons back: #9. I think Kelly Buchberger wore it before “give me the puck” Pushkarev did.

    It’s a classy #. More designed for a forward than D.

  • DellaNooch

    He just sold that option out for $5 million, no way, he doesn’t deserve to be considered in the same ranks as Vachon, Gretzky, Luc, Taylor, Dionne…as for Hall of Fame, not so sure about that, he was a good defenseman, but I’m not sure he was good enough

  • old man

    I think Rob had some good years when surrounded with good talent, but hall of fame career? I don`t think so. The last five years he`s been average at best. My vote is a difinite NO!

  • Quisp

    Orr, Bourque, Coffey, Fetisov, Doug Harvey, Red Kelly, Guy Lapointe, Macinnis, Park, Potvin, Robinson, Salming, Savard…Blake?

    No, I’m sorry. Rob Blake is not even close to being a Hall of Fame defenseman. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Chelios, yes; Lidstom, yes. Blake???? Pfft. Hahahahaha.

    I mean, really, what’s the criteria? He played for a long time, and was always one of the top four defensemen on his team, got a lot of points on average, but not even the most for d on his team many times, hit hard, frquently injured, played mediocre positionally, was a captain a couple of times. I mean, really, why don’t we let everybody in?

    No, he shouldn’t have his jersey retired. I really think all of this hall of fame/jersey retiring talk was just PR for Rob while he was a King.

  • Quisp

    Also, I don’t think if you look at the stats of HoF defensemen (not to mention players whose #s have been retired), you won’t see many (or any) who were literally the worst defenseman on their team some seasons. Even if you’re going to argue that Blake was playing on a bad team (which sometimes he was and sometimes he wasn’t) when he was -20 or -30 he was the worst +/- on the whole team and close to if not actually at the bottom of the entire league.

    But he did get paid a lot. I’m sure if you make a list of highest paid defensemen ever, he would be at the top of the list. Maybe they can have their own building.

  • Moondoggie

    Baumgartner22….Very good list….Yes, there are some really great Kings there. I like Nicholls, Lappy was always a fan favorite and I’ve always missed Tony Granato’s gritty play. Deadder probably did more for the franchise in the two+ years he was a King than any single player outside of Gretz. What about ol No. 32?? Kelly Hrudey practically stood on his head in the semis against Toronto and in the finals against the Habs. I’ve always felt he was vastly underated as one of the best King goalies of all time……

    As far as retiring No.4 (ironically, the $ is right over that number on your keyboard, just look, how ironic!)…..I’m looking for the “Hell No” vote. He will probably make the hall but I care to refer to that accomplishment more for what he did with the Avs and the Sharks (if anything) than what he did for LA. Unfortunately, everytime I’ll see that jersey in the Staples rafters I’ll see that dollar sign….

  • Blake Sucks

    NO!!! When DL signs Modry he should be given #4. The Kings will be bad this year, so I dont know how much of my hard earned money I will be spending on them. However, I will be purchasing a ticket to a game against the Sharks to boooo the heck out of JR and Blake! What a waste of 17 million dollars!!!

  • historyguy

    What team do you think of when you hear the names Luc Robitaille, Dave Taylor, Marcel Dionne, and Rogie Vachon? The Kings, of course. They each proved their loyalty over a long, long period of time. They deserve to have their numbers retired by the team.

    You have to retire TGO’s #99…just because he’s TGO.

    Rob Blake is about the size of his paycheck. Now, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but he should at least admit it! Blake has repeatedly shown that he’s about the name on the back of the jersey, not the name on the front.

    You retire jerseys based on both quality of play and commitment to the team. On the first count, you could argue that his quality of play for the Kings was excellent during his first stint with the team, but definitely not his second. As for commitment…fuhggetaboutit.

    No…no #4 in the rafters of Staples, unless it’s Dave Hutchinson.

  • Chuck

    Not Now. NEVER. If they want to raise numbers to the rafters, here’s a few:

    #9 Bernie Nichols: Single-season team record for goals with 70

    #11 Charlie Simmer: “The Career Minor Leaguer”. Why not have the entire Triple Crown Line enshrined?

    #32 Kelly Hrudy: behind Vachon, the 2nd most successful goalie in Kings history (all due respect to Mario Lassard). Only goalie to advance this team past the 2nd round.

    #19: Butch Goring: 1st Fan-Favorite. Last player to be carried off the ice by his teammates, in that memorable series with Boston.

  • milamber

    Hell no, if anyone deserves to have his King’s number retired first, it’s Butch Goring.

  • KingsFan19

    Blake’s #4 should not be retired. Nor should he be given any position in the Kings Organization after his playing days are over (Thankfully, that shouldn’t be long now).

    But, if the #4 was to be retired; I would prefer that the #4 be retired with Giles Marotte or even Jim Fox (Yes, he wore that number for a short time.) Blake doesn’t deserve squat from this orgainization.

    If blake gets a jersey retired, it should have $ instead of numbers on it. Maybe the Kings should create a Hall of Shame to balance out with the Hall of Fame. I nominate Rob Blake to be the first inductee in the player category. I will withold judgement on who gets inducted from management, for right now.

    As for who should have their number retired before him. Look at the Kings Hall of Fame. Which player listed there doesn’t have his number retired?

    #19 Butch Goring. It is a travesty that it has been done long before now.

    Other players to retire before #4 would include:

    #9 Bernie Nicholls
    #21 Tony Granato
    #5 Harry Howell

    Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

  • Crash Davis

    Should Modry re-sign, he’d ask for #44 again. He’s worn it both times in his 2 stops with Kings.

  • Quattro

    LOL – you just love stirring the pot on this, don’t you Rich? ;)

    Although I blame this week’s events more on Lombardi, I still vote no. It would be pretty embarassing to have a guy get booed at his jersey retirement ceremony.

  • John

    Pretty freaking hilarious that Blake is, BY FAR, the best defenseman in Kings history, a sure Hall of Famer & on top of that, homegrown (unlike 3 of our 5 retired numbers), but we won’t retire his number. SO typical…

  • Eric K

    no. sorry. if we’re gonna retire a recent d-man’s number, retire norstrom’s #14. ask any kings fan which of the two meant more to this team, and you’ll get the same answer every time.

    (anonymous lurker and kingsfan19: good ideas, but don’t forget we have to save #5 for aki berg!)

  • KingsFanInRI

    But, if the #4 was to be retired; I would prefer that the #4 be retired …. even Jim Fox (Yes, he wore that number for a short time.)

    I’m all in favor of it.

    Maybe we can retire #19 for Butch, Foxy AND Larry Robinson, much like the Yankees retired #8 for Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra

  • WishingOnAStar

    Jay Bouwmeester #4

    =D

  • Jon

    C’mon, Hammond, what did you expect the poll result to be, especially when the shock of Rob signing elsewhere is still fresh? This is the kind of poll that an angry nobody without any journalistic integrity would post on a message board just to stir up anti-Blake sentiment. I really believe that you’re a lot better than that.

  • gregb

    Either officially or unofficially the #4 should not be worn by another LA King. Look back upon some of the worst players – especially defensemen – who wore that number. Jerry Korab comes to mind.

    When I was at the first game Blake played for the Kings wearing the #4, I was scared that he was going to be another loser player. Thankfully he wasn’t. But I’m not sure that all of the bad play is out of the number.

    PLEASE do not give to any rookie!!! I’m afraid he won’t play well for the Kings, get traded and be another player that gets to play for Lord Stanley’s Cup with another team. Do the names Larry Murphy, Darryl Sydor, and Rob Blake come to mind.

  • http://yahoo.com George

    For my part, Blake forfeited eligibility in 2001. If AEG does retire it anyway, they would be well-advised to wait and do it in KC; if they do it before they move, it will be the first number-retirement ceremony where more people were booing than cheering.

    If AEG wants some extra cash this year, retire #19 and triple the ticket prices for the ceremony/game. THAT game will be a guaranteed sellout at any price.

  • Tim Waters

    Hey! I own #5!!!

  • Goon Squad

    It’s a bit of a paradox: Blake will be worth 5 million to San Jose, but he would not have been worth 4 million to the Kings. But that’s the truth. The Kings don’t need a 4 million dollar mentor. Rob Blake doesn’t need to fade into the twilight yet. Win – win situation.

    I’m just glad Rob Blake woke up and realized that he doesn’t belong in the mentor role. No matter what he and Brisson say. He SHOULD still care about winning. He should want to play for a contender. Of course it’s 4 months late, and I’m glad to see him go because he was absolutely not the right guy for this job. (I would even go so far as to say he was a cancer).

    In his view, he was ready to take a million dollar hometown discount and it’s insulting to hear that they needed to wait and see how the other options play out. Because he still views himself as a relevant player – one of the top defensemen in the league. That’s not the way DL views him (or most of us).

    He’ll never admit that he was phoning it in the last 2 years, but now you’re gonna see night and day when he goes to a contender and flips the switch back on. We’ll all be pissed and rightly so, but that’s life.

    I’d say his jersey retirement odds just went from 95% down to about 50/50. Ditto the front office position.

  • Al

    There’s a kid up in Calgary …. I think is name is Enuff, nooo Stuffit …. nope not that either …… ohhh I got it Phaneuf ..I’d take 1/2 of a Phaenuf over two Blakes.. he’s already 5 times the DMan Blake ever thought about being and he’ll win more Norris trophies then ONE and that was a gift, Hall of Fame maybe …. but I’ve seen guys that Blake wouldn’t even be allowed to pick their hockey bag up that were more deserving of the Hall then RB will ever be. And all you guys who think just because your name is on the Cup it’s automatic that you go to the Hall, you better check out the list of all the Cup winners …….. WHO AREN’T IN IT.

  • Captain Material

    You know, it’s really sad the way people seem to have so little perspective or ability to see through their hate filled little bubbles. There’s a lot of truthiness to the “Blake is a bad guy” thinking, but just look at the facts compared to the complaints.

    “Blake is greedy” – Bottom line he was willing to take less to stay here. Please, take a look at how far out on that limb you have to go to make up an excuse to get around that one.

    “Blake was impatient” – This one just shows no appreciation for the fact we live in a salary cap world and that three days for a guy as sought after as Blake was a long time. Brisson nails it on the head saying this negotiation should have taken ten minutes. It also shows no appreciation that the team could have negotiated with this guy prior to July 1, and no appreciation for the fact that teams making offers would have moved on and spent that money elsewhere rapidly.

    “Blake is a liar” – He said he wanted to come back here and retire. He did come back the last two years and also didn’t want to be traded when the opportunity came up and the Kings were clearly going to remain at the bottom of the standings for the foreseeable future. Again, he was also clearly willing to play here for less money even with other teams offering significantly more.

    Instead of the obvious explanation for him not waiving his no movement clause last year (i.e. he wanted to come back), people prefer to paint him with a cartoon villain’s mustache wringing his hands evilly while laughing at how he was hurting the team and it’s fans. Yeah, that’s much more likely…

    “Blake isn’t loyal” – He was willing to play here for less money knowing he was going to win nothing while here. Yet to be loyal, he should have done more, he should not only have been willing to take a single million less, he should have been expected to take many million less, and he should have been willing to, in fact, wait around and see if the team could have added a couple of other guys and then come back to him and said they didn’t have room for him at all. He should have been so loyal and patient as to wait around for the team to find better options than him and then happily walk away when it happened just on the outside chance that maybe they would want him after they exhausted their other options and were left with him as a fall-back plan.

    People think that’s a reasonable definition of loyalty?

    If the team thought $4M was too much to pay him, that’s perfectly reasonable and understandable, but you can’t say the market isn’t there for him at well above that price. Yet the GM says he still wanted him and despite having plenty of time to work something out prior to July 1 he didn’t. Yet when that price became clearly the bottom line for his services, the GM stalled and even told Blake and his agent he had to work on other options first. This same GM of a team with plenty of cap space to pay the guy a million under his market value on a single year deal, with a clear need to fill to a spot at the position this guy plays, and with a stated goal of having this guy mentor young kids in the line-up.

    Yeah the problem is Blake is a liar and isn’t loyal, I mean especially compared to how loyal and truthful the team is to it’s players, right? I mean it’s not like they just traded away a guy they had just signed to a long term deal right before the no-trade clause kicked in after telling him they had long term plans for him as the top defender in this organization and as a piece they wanted to build with and around, right? I mean compared to that kind of truthfulness and loyalty, Blake is a dog…or some other less loyal animal that is.

    Not like I have any real issue with the Visnovsky trade, but the double standard here for loyalty and truthfulness is screamingly apparent.

    At the same time of course, all these people pissed at the guy for how he screwed the team actually didn’t like him to begin with and are happy he’s gone. How about that one people? Tell me this isn’t all just manufactured hatred when you present a no-win situation like that? Just like last time…

    It’s funny how much Blake sucks and is a traitor according to fans, yet pretty much any GM in the league (including ours) would have liked to have him on their team.

    He’s not a HoFer and shouldn’t be retired according to everyone except the people who have actually played the game, work in the business, and are qualified to make that kind of call.

    He’s a greedy disloyal liar, except for where he was willing to take less to be here, wanted to stick with a rebuilding organization in last place when given the opportunity to be traded to a contender, and wasn’t offered a contract and was told he’d have to wait until the GM made other moves to try and get better options in place first so that then they could see if and where he fit.

    Yeah, you guys are right on the money here. It just makes so much sense. Well, by that I mean it speaks to people’s guts and their basest emotions and gives then a scape-goat to blame the teams woes on in simple black and white terms instead of making them look at a complicated picture and question how well the team is actually being run and addressing it’s real problems.

    I mean, I certainly don’t want to think about how much it’s going to cost us to fill that spot now Blake won’t be filling in terms of money or assets it takes in a trade to get a guy. I don’t want to think about what kind of implication this may have down the road in dealing with other clients of Brisson like Johnson and Kopitar who are key to our future…

    (aside)
    And to be clear on this one, I’m not talking about DL not just rolling over and giving in to any demand or even in ultimately not signing Blake to placate Brisson. I’m talking about stringing them along, not returning phone calls, and, if they actual just didn’t want to bring the guy back at $4M, not just coming out and saying that, but instead showing very little professional respect for a person he has to deal with in terms of him having other clients to juggle on July 1 and to Blake as a guy who not only wants to be here but is in fact wanted by the team. I do think there should be loyalty here shown by both parties, but both parties should also show respect to each other based on that fact this is still a business and neither side should be taken for granted.
    (end aside)

    … God knows it’s easier to just declare Blake a villain, get all emotional about how I won’t support a team that retires such a traitor, and generally just feel instead of think.

    No one is disputing any of the facts in this issue, right? I see plenty of people like Quisp piecing together these complicated spins to put on the facts, but no one is actually disagreeing about the events, yeah?

    I don’t see reasonable logical conclusions to take away from this that paint anyone as evil. If you didn’t like Blake as a player, well good for him and LA and SJ, everyone got what they wanted. If you did think he had a place here, but not at his asking price, well same thing right? If you think he wasn’t asking too much and had a place here, I could see you thinking the team kind of screwed this one up, but even with those people, I don’t here people saying DL is Satan-spawn or anything. That pretty much covers a good range of the reasonable responses to this I think.

    Yet fans have found their old whipping boy once again. He’s greedy, he’s disloyal, he’s evil…and they don’t seem to realize they’ve found a cartoon character of their own making.

    I suppose on some level if this is about entertainment to you, that works on some level. Please enjoy your soap opera I suppose. I’d prefer to find my entertainment in the reality of a well built well run hockey team that has success on the ice. This incident is troubling for me because t calls into question how well run this team is.

    If you’re too afraid to have that question come up and prefer the make-believe world of heroes and villains, keep up those petitions and look forward to the booing of that cartoon you’ve replaced reality with…

  • chuck

    how about retiring fukufuji before blake? or kariolynin (sp?),

  • Anonymous

    Next poll:

    Is Captain Material actually Rob Blake?

  • Double fault

    Rob Blake is unquestionably a great player. He is likely to play better this coming season than last season.

    Lombardi unquestionably blew it.

    But Blake does not get a pass on responsibility, nor does Brisson. He/they could have made a deal. In light of his last tenure with the Kings, he did owe the team.

    To take the money that he took from the Kings for this last stint for what he gave, he should have worn a mask and had a getaway car.

    Blake is a one note player Me Me Me Me Me.

  • Anonymous

    plain and simple. he had no loyalty to the kings. just like when he would not sign the contract extension and forced the kings to trade him to colorado. but u cant just say its only him. players these days are all about them and the money, no loyalty to the team that drafted them. as for the kings retireing the number 4, not a chance. maybe doughty who wanted to play for the kings will pick that number and then we can retire it.

  • Toro

    For those who say that Blake is a sure fire hall of famer, how do you figure? IMO you need to be considered the best or one of the best during the era. He was very good for about 10 years and even great for a couple of seasons, but never elite.

    When you think of elite hall of fame d-men during Blake’s career, you think of Bourque, Lidstrom, Coffey, Chelios, Pronger, MacInnis, Niedermeyer, guys like that. One guy that I don’t consider elite during his time that did enter the hall was Larry Murphy. But he was very good throughout his 20 year career and he did play over 1600 games and score over 1200 points.

    Blake on the other hand, was never a great defensive player, which all the above mentioned players were except for Coffey (but we all know it wasn’t his defense that got him in the hall).

    So to sum it all up, no he’s not a hall of famer, and no his number should not be retired. The latter due to a combination of the his non HOF status and his history with the organization/fans.

  • Anonymous

    I would like to thank Captain Material for being a ture fan and telling like it is.
    The Insider

  • Duckhunter

    Captain Material,

    Well thought out and orated. Can’t find one point I disagree with. Wish I had command of the English language to communicate as you have. Well said.

    Where’s the I don’t care button?

    Where’s the I just want the Kings to win, or a least get better button?

    Where’s the I just want all King fans to come together and unite, in creating one KingNation button.

    Lets forget about the buttons that divide us, and concentrate on the buttons that unite us.

    Enough about Blake already!

  • Quisp

    Response to Cap’n Material:

    “Bottom line he was willing to take less to stay here.” – Less than what? His agent offered $4MM to DL and then used it to get $5MM from the Sharks. Both of these numbers are less than the $6MM he got the last two seasons, because he’s OLD. Not because he was “willing to take less.” He had no choice but to take less. If he was willing to take less, then he should have waited to see what the offer from the Kings was going to be.

    “Brisson nails it on the head saying this negotiation should have taken ten minutes.” Yes, if you just do what Brisson says. P.S. I don’t think Blake was impatient, because that implies he wanted to stay but couldn’t wait. (however, since that’s Blake’s argument — that he WANTED to stay but couldn’t WAIT — he’s arguing for his own impatience, really). I don’t think he was impatient because I don’t think he wanted to stay. See his quote on ESPN about “not being into all that rebuilding anyway.”

    Re Blake is a liar: we already went over this, CM. The lie is “the Kings never made me an offer.” The other lie is, “DL didn’t return my calls.”

    Re NTC: No, the obvious reason he didn’t waive his NTC clause is because he ONLY wanted to go to COL because he wants to win a cup. Same reason he now has signed with SJ. I don’t blame him, but that’s not the same as “wanting to stay with the Kings” or “being loyal to the Kings.”

    Re “loyal” : no, he doesn’t owe it to the Kings to wait around for them. But let’s visit reality for a minute here: the only cost to Rob to wait even TWO MONTHS for the Kings offer would have been MONEY. He could always find a place to play at a million for a one year deal. It’s not like he would have been left out in the cold.

    He’s entitled to take the most money he could get. He did that. No one was going to pay him more than $5MM. That’s why he took it. And the Sharks paid it because they know they have to WIN NOW or it’s over for them. Because they have mortgaged their future. So it’s a marriage made in heaven.

    But please, your argument that signing with San Jose doesn’t make him disloyal to the Kings is absurd. It doesn’t make him loyal to the Kings either. AT BEST it makes him “loyalty neutral.” And when you don’t have any special loyalty to one side or another, what does that make you?

    “all these people pissed at the guy for how he screwed the team actually didn’t like him to begin with and are happy he’s gone. How about that one people?”

    I don’t think he screwed the team, though you could make the argument that he did so by not waiving his NTC. I’m happy he’s gone because (1) he’s too old and slow, (2) he takes up time on the PP and PK that could be better distributed to other players, (3) he’s expensive, (4) he’s a “quiet leader” which is my least favorite kind, and which I believe is a euphemism for “not a very good or inspiring leader,” unless you lead by example, which (5) he doesn’t do.

    “He’s not a HoFer and shouldn’t be retired according to everyone except the people who have actually played the game, work in the business, and are qualified to make that kind of call.”

    Hmm. Well, I have played the game for the last forty years, not that I think that’s actually any requirement for being about to “make that kind of call” about who should be in the Hall of Fame and who shouldn’t. But let me tell you my own personal guidelines and you can decide for yourself: first, I look at the defensemen who have already been admitted to the Hall of Fame and see if Blake is in the same league. Aside from the fact they they are all the National Hockey LEAGUE, he is not in the same league as those players. Just in case, I’m missing something, I looked at stats. He’s numbers are good but not stellar. He’s hundreds of points away from, for example, Chelios. His plus/minus is atrocious. But of course stats don’t tell the whole story. Maybe he’s a great leader. Does he have Kevin Lowe’s six cup rings? Uh, no. Is he a quiet leader a la Lidstrom? No. So why is it exactly that he should be in the HoF? Oh, right, because “people who have played the game and work in the business” say so.

    I do know that I have read or heard “future Hall of Famer” attached to Rob Blake’s name several times in the last couple of years. I’m not sure what that’s about. Maybe it’s just something sportswriters say. Maybe it’s something the Kings management has been pushing since he re-signed here. I personally don’t think it means any more than when they say the Sharks are favorites to win the cup.

    Anyway, the Hall of Fame is for the fans. It’s not the Nobel Peace Prize. It’s not like there’s some secret arcane calculus that only Scotty Bowman and Herb Brooks in heaven can compute and determine who belongs in the Hall.

    “I don’t want to think about what kind of implication this may have down the road in dealing with other clients of Brisson like Johnson and Kopitar who are key to our future…” I can tell you exactly how much it will cost us. Nothing. Brisson is an agent. He will always do what’s right for his commission. That’s his job. Plus, DL didn’t do anything to Brisson. He told him he had to wait; Brisson said he couldn’t. End of story. I don’t recall reading anything about DL and Brisson having a problem with each other.

    ” I’m talking about stringing them along, not returning phone calls” — I think it’s already been pretty well established that this didn’t happen.

    “I see plenty of people like Quisp piecing together these complicated spins to put on the facts, but no one is actually disagreeing about the events, yeah?” Point out the complicated spins please. I don’t know if people are disagreeing about the events or not. The events appear to be, Blake wanted to go somewhere where he could get more money and compete for a cup before he’s too old. He also wanted to look like the good guy, so he said some things that we’re exactly true in order to make it look like DL wronged him by either not making an offer or not returning his calls, when it turns out that the offer on the table was non-negotiable, that DL had talked to Blake’s agent for TWO HOURS and talked to Blake that night, the night FA opened, I believe. DL told Blake he needed more time to see if he could make Blake’s $$ ultimatum work for the Kings, DL wanted to play out several other options rather than sign Blake for more than he was eager to pay, Blake didn’t like the sound of that and signed with the Sharks.

    What’s the spin?

    “This incident is troubling for me because t calls into question how well run this team is.”

    And it’s not troubling for me because, as I’ve said before, Blake is too old, slow and expensive, and a poor leader. DL told us he wasn’t going to be active in FA, and he told us he would like Blake back but only for a price and if he was willing to accept a new role. He wasn’t. He’s gone. Why isn’t this evidence of DL running the team right? Read the articles on ESPN etc. about how SJ has screwed themselves and their future.

    “If you’re too afraid to have that question come up and prefer the make-believe world of heroes and villains, keep up those petitions and look forward to the booing of that cartoon you’ve replaced reality with…”

    I never said Rob Blake is evil. I just said he’s not a good leader, old, slow and expensive. Also, I think he wasn’t honest, and that seems to be the thing that set you off. But as I have already demonstrated for you how it was that he was being less than truthful, I won’t rehash it now.

    But, please. I’m not AFRAID to have the question come up. I like the way the team is being handled. It’s not skeeery to me at all. I don’t have to make excuses for how the team is playing. I’m happy to be rebuilding. I enjoy watching the kids play. I never liked it when Gretzky brought all his old cronies in back in the 90s, and I’m happy now that Blake is gone.

    He’s not evil. He’s just a guy who was once sporadically great but is now in decline. His career has been kind of very-good to great-minus, with lots of rough patches. I don’t especially feel the need to criticize him, except when people talk about him as a Hall of Famer or talk about retiring his number. Those are honors that presumably stand for something.

  • PowrrrPlay

    Captain Material: As you can see the fan base here has digressed into a mob mentality at this particular moment in time.

    I assume it will eventually pass but not until the mob has taken its toll on the RB situation and then have found something bigger and better to beat on.

    As far as I am concerned it begins with the current Kings ownership and their ability show and propagate leadership throughout their organization.

    The fan reaction is just a byproduct.

    Cheers

  • Quisp

    PowrrrPlay -

    You mean “regressed.” In any case, I don’t need anything to “beat on.” Instead of attempting to be insulting, why not just make your point, which is apparently something about AEG (ownership) and whether or not they propagate leadership. I personally don’t have an opinion about AEG one way or another as they relate to the Kings. We’ll see what happens when it comes time to spend on the current crop of kids.

    Presumably the point of labeling people who have different points of view “a mob” is that what they have to say is “irrational” and/or “not to be reasoned with.” In order for that to hold any weight, however, first you would have to be able to address the concerns of the “mob” on their merits. Otherwise, it’s just name-calling.

  • Captain Material

    Less than what?

    Come on Quisp, this is clearly willful misunderstanding by you and flat out dishonest. Gosh, I dont know, maybe less than the price the market set for him? You can not be serious with that as an argument; thats just game playing.

    Yes, if you just do what Brisson saysI don’t think he was impatient because I don’t think he wanted to stay.

    Yeah, why argue the merits of what people say, when you can just cast them as black and white figures, one evil and one good. Brisson is one of those greedy evil agents, so instead of addressing what he says, lets just not think at all.

    Spector has a good read over on his site in his soap box about player salaries and the root cause that speaks to this kind of thinking somewhat.

    What was up in the air Quisp? Both sides clearly knew the role the guy would play and the term of the contract. No one is arguing that, right? Both sides agree. The only thing left was the amount, so why wouldnt this have gone quickly? This also conveniently ignores that the team could have started negotiating well prior to July 1. No one is saying it was Blakes side stalling that, right? I mean tell me if Im wrong here. According to both sides if anyone wanted to get a deal done in a timely fashion it was Blakes side, not the Kings.

    But of course that doesnt support your he didnt want to stay argument. If thats the case Quisp, riddle me this: why on earth would he sign here to begin with and want a no-trade clause? According to you, not only does this guy have to have nefarious ulterior motives, but they have to rapidly change on the fly to fit your argument.

    Instead of getting the answer which is simply supported by everything everyone involved has said (which should be the most correct if you believe in the veracity of concepts like Occams Razor), no, you think the truth lies in complicated reading deep between the lines and ignoring certain facts that just dont fit with it. Him not wanting to be traded doesnt mean he wants to stay, it means he wants to go. Him giving the Kings the opportunity to sign him for less than hes being offered elsewhere doesnt speak to loyalty or a desire to come back, it means hes greedy and is looking to move. Ridiculous. Plainly.

    See his quote on ESPN about “not being into all that rebuilding anyway.”

    What quote? That was a completely unsupported assertion which was sandwiched between actual quotes from the conference call which everyone is referencing in the media without the one you are pointing to. And you arent even getting it right as to whose quote its suppose to be, right? ESPN was implying this was second had from Wilson, right? And again, they offer no solid accounting for it; its just thrown in there unquoted between other documentable statements that dont support it. And pardon my own prejudice, but ESPN doesnt even cover hockey anymore. This is probably something a poker player said. :)

    This is a great example of what Im talking about with people like you stretching just as far as they can to try and manufacture an argument by assembling some bits of information that support their preconceived objective and ignoring other things instead of examining the actual facts and basing their opinion objectively off of that. We are rather intellectually lazy as a society

    but that’s not the same as “wanting to stay with the Kings” or “being loyal to the Kings.”

    I did speak directly to this in my previous comment, but I guess I just dont have the same definition of loyalty some people have. I think hes displaying loyalty by wanting to be here with the clear prospect of not winning anything. I think hes displaying loyalty by being willing to take less money to play here, and even waiting around a number of days at the start of free agency when there are bigger offers out there for him on the table.

    If not, doesnt it make the most sense for him to sign with SJ on July 1 immediately? Or even come and ask LA to match or beat the offer? He didnt do either of those things, and again, he even was willing to stay here for less money than he was offered. To me that says loyalty.

    I think the standard some people have, including you, that he has to wait around for a month (You cant be serious right? Yeah, its only money and that has no place in a business. That theres a laugher! There is a place for loyalty in business dealings, but that standard you set is deserving of ridicule.), accept multiple millions less, and even wait around after being told the team is looking for other options and hes not actually their first choice, goes well beyond what is reasonable for loyalty.

    To me he clearly displays loyalty to the team by giving them the opportunity to sign him for below market value and by even giving them days to make that call. Say thats not loyal enough for you, fine, but the loyalty neutral argument is plain BS. Thats about you wanting to hate, not about you being reasonable with the facts.

    I’m happy he’s gone

    Yet you seem to be on a mission to also paint him as greedy and disloyal and all kinds of bad guy. How many posts did you have in the past few days dissecting why every word the guy said had some underlying meaning pointing to him being deceptive and straining to make clear how everything implied him trying to make the team look bad and such? Seriously, go look at the comments; theyre littered with you taking great efforts in interpreting what was said and done instead of taking things at face value (despite the fact that taking things at face value does give a simple clear explanation). Okay, youre not protesting too much at all

    Hmm. Well, I have played the game for the last forty years

    Ive only been doing it for about twenty, but unlike you I never made the NHL or went pro. Did you ever get a chance to play for an original six team? That would have been an honor. Are you on the HoF selection committee by any chance, because I would love to hear what the thought is behind Vachon not getting proper consideration? Blah blah blah

    My point clearly is you dont hear anyone but fans throwing out this BS. Tell me its not true. Please speak to the actual point. I hear people all through the hockey world (the NHL, not the local beer league in case thats not clear) talk of this guy with reverence and respect. And its not that people are prone to say bad things in general, but what they do is not say anything when thats the case. People say plenty positive about Blake. And again, its odd how pretty much every GM would like this guy on their team (again, including ours).

    Im not here to make the case for Blake as a HoFer. Im just here to point out how absurd it is fans think they know better than guys who actually know of what they speak first hand. If they werent saying those things, you might have an argument, but alas

    I can tell you exactly how much it will cost us. Nothing.

    You know, on this one point, I may agree with you. After re-reading the comments from Brisson and DL, maybe I made too much of this on some level. It is still troubling why it took so long for them to make contact (and Im sorry, but when people are spending a day trying to reach each other, there are in fact unreturned phone calls not trying to overblow that, but its not like DL was juggling more this UFA season than in the past where he seemed to be pretty efficient in making contact with people and getting things done and not like there wasnt tons of time to do this before July 1). It is still troubling why when the price was so clearly set, the responses was keep waiting from DL instead of we wish you the best, adios. Just seems a clumsy way to handle it to me.

    Seems apparent to me at least if he wanted him or didnt at the price that was set, either way there were better ways to handle this. I think the fact were talking about this with any disagreement is proof of that. That still has me wondering on how effective DL is at actually dealing with player contracts (not to mention his numerous bad signings that have piled up in addition to this). Im a huge fan of the guy, but this seems to be coming up as a weakness.

    And Ill note you dont mention the player assets it may cost us to fill that spot Blake wont be in. That may not be much more than nothing, but it also clearly could be.

    Brisson is an agent. He will always do what’s right for his commission.

    Which may mean a guy like Kopitar or Johnson not re-signing here. Again, maybe I made too much of this I see in retrospect, but DL certainly didnt work in a direction where he developed a positive relationship to be given extra slack next time around. May mean nothing; may mean the difference on the next tight negotiation. Not trying to make more of that than it is, but we shall see.
    Point out the complicated spins pleaseThe events appear to be, Blake wanted to go somewhere where he could get more money and compete for a cup before he’s too oldWhat’s the spin?
    Man, I think its hilarious how that whole paragraph is basically just you saying you have no ability to detect irony. You start off your analysis of the situation not with facts that arent disputed and how they lead to a conclusion, but actually with your conclusion. You start with where you want to get instead of simply taking the steps and seeing where that leads you. Im not sure it will be possible to explain that to you if you dont see it to begin with.
    Basically, Im looking at the quotes and events and see they tend to jive with each other. Simple example: Blake said he wants to be here and in fact was willing to stay at less than offered by other teams (specifically a team you are even saying he actually wanted to go to right?). Those two items seem to jive and really arent being disputed. I mean correct me if Im wrong there, but he is quoted as that being his intention and he was reportedly asking for $4M with a $5M offer on the table from SJ, right?
    You take those same two simple facts that no one is arguing and say, no, what he really wanted was to leave. You then construct reasoning for that which ignores things that dont jive with that and conflating things that do (like the ESPN non-quote from a conference call where no other source got that item).
    Its as simple as that. The spin is where you add not so obvious interpretations to things that already make sense without them in order to change their fundamental meanings. Everything that went down makes sense without something silly like adding Blake is trying to make the organization look bad. 2+2=4 without adding in motivations and deceit, yet you add those things anyway. Why? That is the spin.
    And it’s not troubling for me because, as I’ve said before, Blake is too old, slow and expensive, and a poor leader.

    And heres some more willful misunderstanding for the sake of distraction. Like I clearly said, Blake not re-signing is not the troubling part. The troubling part is how ineptly the whole thing seems to have gone down even by DLs direct account. And I specifically stated that was what I meant.

    He’s not evil.

    Yeah, hes just greedy and disloyal and a liar and motivated to make the team look bad and not much of a hockey player either. Oh, and did I mention he cant lead? :)

    Yeah, well despite having this back and forth with you directly, not all of what I said was directly applicable to your thoughts Quisp. Youve got to be blind though if you dont see that in the comments of a significant chunk of fans that tend to broadly agree with you on this one though.

    “I personally don’t have an opinion about AEG one way or another as they relate to the Kings”

    Well, so much for your credibility. :)

    Seriously?!?! Where have you been the last decade? You may want to start looking into that one if you want to have a good understanding of where this franchise is going. Like I said, I’m totally on board with DL and the direction he has gone in large, but the shadow behind him running the team is somehting to be concerned about.

    You want to put all these ulterior motives to Blake, but you see nothing there in the recent moves the team has made (suprise firing of Crow, DL quoted as being nudged to go “even younger”, getting a fan backlash to ticket and parking prices after crying they were lossing money, trading Cammi who would have been looking for a big contract for a questionable return, trading Visnovsky’s big contract after just signing it and saying he was to be built around, etc.) considering the history of this ownership?

    I’m not trying to start conspiracy theory thinking here, but if some red flags aren’t going up that at least make you take note of this stuff…wow. Especially considering all you’re want to read into the Blake stuff. If you think a kid who grew up on a soy bean farm in Simcoe needs to be more closely watched for shifty dishonest motives than a real estate baron like PA I think you’ve got things a bit screwy.

    Just to put it in perspective, Blake is at most being motivated by a lust for millions in the single digits. That’s chump change compared to the motivations of ownership.

    “In order for that to hold any weight, however, first you would have to be able to address the concerns of the “mob” on their merits.”

    And I think I have done exactly that. Blake is greedy and disloyal according to the mob, but was willing to play for less money here than offered elsewhere and gave the team plenty of time to make a call on that. Just that straightforward example that isn’t in dispute I think speaks volumes on the merit of the mob’s concerns. Very straight forward and direct and I don’t even have to read between any lines or assess the character of anyone I don’t personally have any knowledge of like the mob is clearly (and proudly) doing.

    Can I move on to name calling now? :)

  • PowrrrPlay

    Quisp, the Captain is conveying my sentiments so I think it is best that I shut-up and let the Captain do the talking.

    Cheers

  • Quisp

    Re “Come on Quisp, this is clearly willful misunderstanding by you and flat out dishonest. Gosh, I dont know, maybe less than the price the market set for him? You can not be serious with that as an argument; thats just game playing.”

    Wrong and wrong. Your logic is circular. You can’t say he was willing to take less than the price the market set for him when it was BEFORE the market (i.e. the Sharks) “set” the price. Obviously, he was willing to take what he offered to DL, namely, $4MM. Clearly, the “market” had not yet been established for him at that point.

    Maybe what you’re saying is that, IN RETROSPECT, Blake’s offer of $4MM to the Kings was not unreasonable given that the Sharks were willing to pay more. That’s fair enough. But it was still more than the Kings were willing to pay.

    “Yeah, why argue the merits of what people say, when you can just cast them as black and white figures, one evil and one good. Brisson is one of those greedy evil agents, so instead of addressing what he says, lets just not think at all.”

    I didn’t say Brisson was evil or greedy. I’m just saying “it could all have been wrapped up in ten minutes” depends on Brisson and DL essentially agreeing, which they did not.

    But, “let’s just not think at all?” Dude, saying that people who don’t agree with you are thoughtless is, um, casting the world in black and white.

    “If thats the case Quisp, riddle me this: why on earth would he sign here to begin with and want a no-trade clause?”

    I don’t know, riddler. I guess because it was the best of his options. NTC is a thing you can get in your contract when you’re negotiating from a position of power. I don’t have a problem with any of that. Presumably, when you sign with a team, you want to play there.

    p.s. “riddle me this” is condescending and asinine.

    “According to you, not only does this guy have to have nefarious ulterior motives, but they have to rapidly change on the fly to fit your argument.”

    My argument hasn’t changed at all. My argument is that he wanted to sign with the Sharks, and so he did. And knowing that people in LA were going to possibly have a problem with that, he said some things that were technically true while being not the whole truth.

    “What quote? That was a completely unsupported assertion which was sandwiched between actual quotes from the conference call which everyone is referencing in the media without the one you are pointing to. And you arent even getting it right as to whose quote its suppose to be, right? ESPN was implying this was second had from Wilson, right?”

    I think what it said was, Blake told Wilson that he wasn’t that into rebuilding anyway. That’s what you call an indirect quote. It’s not “unsupported.” The article indicates Blake said it. Presumably, Wilson said he said it. But you’d have to check with the reporter.

    “This is a great example of what Im talking about with people like you…”

    People like me? You’re making generalizations about people like me? In your non-black-and-white world? Again, how about a moratorium on insults?

    “…stretching just as far as they can to try and manufacture an argument by assembling some bits of information that support their preconceived objective…”

    Your evidence of stretching the truth is what? That I think he was being tricky when he said LA made no offer and Dean didn’t return my calls? I think that is a fair interpretation of events.

    “We are rather intellectually lazy as a society.”

    Projection denied.

    “the loyalty neutral argument is plain BS. Thats about you wanting to hate, not about you being reasonable with the facts.”

    I don’t hate Rob Blake. I don’t think he betrayed the Kings. I just don’t think you can say he’s “loyal” to the Kings. I’m not saying he should have waited two months. I’m saying people should stop saying he is or was loyal to the Kings.

    And, p.s., for someone who is supposedly all about being reasonable and logical, you do seem to find it bizarrely necessary to ascribe hyperbole to others where it doesn’t exist. I don’t hate him. I don’t think he’s evil. I say Brisson is an agent, you turn that into “greedy evil agent,” etc..

    “Seriously, go look at the comments; theyre littered with you taking great efforts in interpreting what was said and done…”

    Actually, it’s no effort at all.

    “…instead of taking things at face value (despite the fact that taking things at face value does give a simple clear explanation). Okay, youre not protesting too much at all”

    I have a better idea. Why don’t you go look at the comments and come up with some specific citations of where I am “straining.”

    And, by the way, taking things at face value: Rob Blake wanted to sign with the Sharks, so he did it. Why do you need to make him the victim of big bad management?

    “Ive only been doing it for about twenty, but unlike you I never made the NHL or went pro. Did you ever get a chance to play for an original six team? That would have been an honor. Are you on the HoF selection committee by any chance, because I would love to hear what the thought is behind Vachon not getting proper consideration? Blah blah blah”

    Listen, you were the one who offered up the absurd argument that only people who play hockey or work in hockey are qualified to decide who gets to be in the Hall of Fame. What I said was, well, I have played all my life, but that doesn’t matter. You left out the doesn’t matter part (intentionally, in order to improve your teetering argument? But of course.). The point is, I think it’s lame for you to say to people who think RB shouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame, “OH YEAH WELL REALLY SMART PEOPLE WHO ARE QUALIFIED THINK HE SHOULD AND YOU PEOPLE AREN’T QUALIFIED SO THERE!” (that’s a paraphrase of you, not an actual quote.) My counter argument is that (1) I am as qualified as the next guy, (2) I am as informed as the next guy, and (3) I outlined how I made the decision for myself (stats, comparison to others in the Hall of Fame, etc.).

    “I hear people all through the hockey world (the NHL, not the local beer league in case thats not clear) talk of this guy with reverence and respect….And again, its odd how pretty much every GM would like this guy on their team (again, including ours).”

    Okay. I don’t know who you’re talking about, really. I don’t hear these people. I don’t doubt that people have nice things to say about Rob Blake. I don’t know how to evaluate whether or not pretty much every GM wants to sign him. I’ll take your word for it.

    “Man, I think its hilarious how that whole paragraph is basically just you saying you have no ability to detect irony.”

    That would be hilarious if you made any sense.

    “Basically, Im looking at the quotes and events and see they tend to jive with each other.”

    You mean “jibe.”

    “You take those same two simple facts that no one is arguing and say, no, what he really wanted was to leave. You then construct reasoning for that which ignores things that dont jive with that and conflating things that do.”

    My evidence that he wanted to leave is (1) he left, (2) it was his choice. You seem to be saying that he didn’t WANT to leave, but the Kings MADE him leave? Or just “circumstances beyond his control” made him leave? But he really would rather have stayed? How is that a reasonable reading that jibes with the facts?

    “Everything that went down makes sense without something silly like adding ‘Blake is trying to make the organization look bad’. 2+2=4 without adding in motivations and deceit, yet you add those things anyway. Why? That is the spin.”

    No. Blake said, “The Kings didn’t make me an offer” but forgot to mention that his own offer was (1) non negotiable and (2) DL was having conversations with agent and player to try to make it work, having indicated that it might take him some time (read: hours). Blake also said that DL didn’t return his calls on July 1 But left out the fact that DL and Blake talked on July 1. It doesn’t sound as good to say “Dean didn’t return my calls until later in the day when we talked.”

    Now, to me, that’s spin. And it ain’t a stretch.

    [re AEG]“Seriously?!?! Where have you been the last decade? You may want to start looking into that one if you want to have a good understanding of where this franchise is going.”

    I didn’t say AEG is my best friend. I said I don’t have a problem with them as relates to the Kings. I guess what I should have said is, I don’t have a problem with them as relates to the Blake situation. I’m sure if I thought about it, I could work myself up into a froth about how they’re handling the team, but I don’t know that it would be any worse than any of the other Kings’ owners over the years. The Kings as a team appear to be in a better position than they have since I have been following them, and I would have to include the fun but frustrating Gretzky years. I prefer the building from the ground up.

    Of course, PA has religious and political leanings that I don’t agree with, and that DOES affect his presence in other industries (e.g. the movie business) but so far it doesn’t seem to be a problem for hockey. As far as I know, in my sheltered experience.

    “You want to put all these ulterior motives to Blake”

    I did not and do not.

    “but you see nothing there in the recent moves the team has made (suprise [sic] firing of Crow…”

    You think that’s AEG? I don’t know. Kind of makes sense as a GM move at this point. DL needs to get results and MC never really seemed like a good fit, etc… But okay, I’m listening. Could be AEG…

    “…DL quoted as being nudged to go ‘even younger’”

    You think that’s AEG, too? I got the impression DL was given the go-ahead to really go for it, whole hog, as it were. I didn’t think AEG was forcing DL go go younger against his wishes or judgment. But for the sake of argument, I’ll bite…

    “trading Cammi who would have been looking for a big contract for a questionable return…”

    I like Teubert. I think that’s a good deal for us. We’ll see.

    “… trading Visnovsky’s big contract after just signing it and saying he was to be built around”

    You think AEG was behind those trades? I like those trades. Maybe I like AEG! Fundamentally, I believe that those guys needed to go for reasons that have been discussed to death elsewhere on this site. Short version: can’t pay them and afford to keep the core together in years to come.

    “I’m not trying to start conspiracy theory thinking here, but if some red flags aren’t going up that at least make you take note of this stuff…wow.”

    Who says I didn’t take note of those events? Wow?

    Well, I didn’t link it all together into one unified theory, that’s true. However, since I am in favor of all the moves you cited, I guess that probably explains why it’s not worrying me.

    I guess I would say that those events have explanations that work at face value, so there’s no need to read into them.

    As for raising ticket prices, as a season ticket holder for almost the entire 90s, I’m glad to be blissfully ignorant of it now. I don’t really believe AEG’s claim that they are losing money (as I said on another thread here), nor do I really care. They need to put a winning team on the ice.

    “If you think a kid who grew up on a soy bean farm in Simcoe needs to be more closely watched for shifty dishonest motives than a real estate baron like PA I think you’ve got things a bit screwy.”

    If my grandma had wheels she’d be a wagon. You’re talking nonsense. I never said Rob Blake needed to be watched for shifty motives. And I don’t trust real estate barons. So stop putting words in my mouth and then criticizing them.

  • Captain Material

    “I’m just saying “it could all have been wrapped up in ten minutes” depends on Brisson and DL essentially agreeing, which they did not.”

    But that’s not true in the context of what Brisson said…as I specifically even spelled out. Term and role with the team were set. If Blake asks for more than the team wants to pay, as you say in an ultimatum even, how much time does that take to go thumbs up or thumbs down on? That is the point of the statement, so I don’t know what else you are getting at.

    “People like me?”

    There’s no broad generalization there. You separate where I say that to begin a sentence and where I specifically spell out what actions I’m talking about, but I didn’t.

    “Why do you need to make him the victim of big bad management?”

    I wouldn’t say he is. We are if anything. I think that’s my whole thesis here. You’re the one trying to make this about Blake and his character.

    “My evidence that he wanted to leave is (1) he left, (2) it was his choice.”

    So, is this before or after the team doesn’t make him an offer and tells him to wait until they explore other options? What was that you were saying about when the market value was set again? No similarity I’m sure.

    And speaking to that, that offer was still there after the market value was set I assume you’d agree. Based on what we know that offer was still out there right up until he signed on Thursday. The market was pretty much set as of Tuesday morning. What were you saying again?

    “You mean “jibe.””

    Yeah, probably. I’m a technical guy, not a communicator, so pardon me.

    “I didn’t say AEG is my best friend.”

    Neither did I, and actually you said you had no opinion, which prompts my comment.

    “And I don’t trust real estate barons.”

    I only spoke in a relative sense, so if you’re worried about people putting words in another’s mouth…

    Other than that, I’m sorry if a playful writing style is offensive to you.

    I’ll leave the logic as is otherwise, but really don’t understand how you fail to see how part of your argument requires guessing at people’s motive well outside what they plainly state they are and where there isn’t any holes in that explanation that require it. That to me is unnecessary stretching to get conclusions. I don’t have to go outside this thread for any examples on that.

    And outside what you specifically are saying in the back and forth, you don’t really address the basic flaws in the “mobs” reaction to this. Blake still was willing to sign here for less money than elsewhere and the team still had plenty of opportunity to make a call on that.

    You argue it was more than we wanted to pay. Cool. Still blows the Blake is disloyal and greedy argument out of the water, and that is the big overriding sentiment. Also kind of blows your assertion in this last response that it’s Blake’s choice (anymore than it is the teams choice). If the team is here saying what you are saying in that they didn’t want him, I’m 100% fine with that in terms of intent on their part, but they still clearly handled this in a rather clumsy fashion if that was the end result they wanted. And again, if I have a thesis here, that would be it.

  • Quisp

    Well, I can’t really say what the so-called mob thinks. I’m anti-hysteria. And I certainly don’t think Blake left because he was disloyal and greedy. Nor do I begrudge him his right to sign wherever he wants. I do think, however, that he was trying to shift the blame for the situation onto DL. You think I’m reading into it. Fair enough. And, as we’ve discussed, I don’t think his achievements rise to the standard of a Hall of Fame career. You are of course right that other people get to decide this. By the time that decision comes down, hopefully the Kings will be a dynasty.

    On the other hand, my grandmother moved to Chicago in the 20s and instantly became a Cubs fan, literally listening to every game on the radio (once they started doing that) and every game on television (once they started doing that) for 78 years.

  • JDM

    I usually agree with u quisp, but some of this is silly (you too captain m, love ya but calm down).

    My reading of the exchange and brisson’s comments was that the SJ offer came in on july 1st, meaning RB did ask the kings for less than market value.

    As far as the NTC goes I think that the main reason for that is a desire to control where u go. Without one u could end up on the panthers or something. Blake could have gone anywhere durign FA, but is on record as wanting to be close to home and the SJ option was time sensitive.

    Also, nearly every time I have read anything about Blake, be it blog or newspaper or on nhl.com he has been referred to as ‘future hall of fame defenseman Rob Blake’. And no, I have no interest in looking up the citations so just trust that I’m not an idiot who consistently remembers things I read wrong in the same way.

    Blake follows the dollar, for sure, and that does come before his loyalty in the big picture. However, the one thing DL clearly lied about Capt M is wanting RB on the team. If that were really true RB would have a one year 4mill contract with the kings.
    DL didn’t waste any tact on the situation, and Blake wasn’t wholly ‘loyal’, however u want to define it.

    Brisson could care less what happens really or who looks like a schmuck, so long as its not him.

    This issue is dead. Leave it six feet under… The same number of wins away from the cup RB and the sharks will be next may.

  • Quisp

    JDM –

    I can’t argue with you. You speak the truth. IT’S THIS OVERWHELMING HATRED OF EVIL GREEDY BLAKE!! Er. Sorry. That just slipped out. Really, I just don’t like to be lumped in with the mob.

  • Duckhunter

    That word joist was better than some UFC fights I’ve seen. Now that we have everything worked out:) why don’t we forget about Blake, and go back to the thing we’re good at, being Kings fans. Nothing we can do now except wish the best for next year and hope we make strides in the right direction.

    I will say this, at the rate we’re going on defense. we might see Hickey, Doughty and Teubert on the Kings. Talk about learning on the fly. I guess the bright spot in that, is they’ll be racking up NHL minutes. We’ll get to see what kind of character they bring to the table. I really hope thats not the case. Hope DL has some kind of secret plan going.

  • Captain Material

    Yeah, I enjoy the joist, but don’t take it too seriously. Quisp, like I said in a previous comment thread, I can admittedly be asinine and condescending while entertaining myself in this fashion, so please don’t take it personally. Hopefully I also have sense to make too.

    Also, I was speaking to the “mob” and what that ugly consensus has put forward, and it does seem like because I referred to you in one part of that initial post, you kind of took it as being all about you. I can’t so much apologize for you stepping in to defend the “mob” when you don’t also want to speak for them, but that’s what it is.

    Similarly, I don’t like the way it reflects on me as a fan, and all kings fans, when this leads to the kind of low class stuff like having to sit through an all-star game with people booing our former captain in our building on a stage for the entire league to see. So that’s where I’m coming from. I’d be more than happy to not have to feel obligated to defend this guy.

    Anyway, here’s to seeing what this team does next to ice a team this coming season.

  • Some guy

    Personally I think all the people claiming they will never support the Kings again are rediculus (if his number is retired). I don’t want it retired, but then again if it did happen, oh well, you need to respect the years Blake put into the organization no matter what. Again – I chose NO, but if it did happen, it wouldn’t change the way I think of the Kings whatsoever.

  • Old Time Hockey

    I think we table this until he no longer plays for the fish. Until then, he is dead to me. After that, we can consider the rafters.

  • Quisp

    From today’s San Jose Mercury:

    Blake told Wilson last week that he should have come to San Jose a few years sooner.

    “I said, ‘Yeah, you should have,’ ” Wilson recalled. “But we’ve got him now.”

    Noted without comment.

  • Quisp

    And this from Kat Kealy on Hockey Buzz:

    No matter who the Kings choose as their new captain, two things are guaranteed. 1. He will be younger than Rob Blake (the Kings oldest player is now Derek Armstrong, born in 1973 (Blake was born at the end of 1969) and 2. Hes bound to care more about the team and where theyre going than Rob Blake did in his last year as captain. Blake barely seemed to show up and really try on the ice. Off the ice was even worse. As of a month or so into the season, Blake almost never faced the media in the locker room after games. Im sure if someone had asked to speak with him, the Kings staff would have tracked them down, but I dont think thats something anyone should have to do with the captain of a team and I know most reporters prefer not to bother the players that would rather not face the media. Odds are, theyll get better quotes from the guys who are waiting to answer questions than from someone who has been trying to avoid answering them.

    A lot of people thought Blake was a bad choice from the start and I defended the choice initially. I thought it was a good choice, since hed be a good leader for the young team. I think he could have been a good leader, but it was clear pretty early that Blake wasnt going to step up and fill that position as well as he had in the past.

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