Tukonen traded

For those who haven’t seen it already, the Kings today traded winger Lauri Tukonen to Dallas for winger Richard Clune.

It seemed increasingly clear that Tukonen had fallen out of the Kings’ plans. Here’s what the Kings’ press release had to say about Clune:

Clune, 21, was selected by Dallas in the third round (71st overall) in the 2005 NHL Entry Draft. He played in 38 games with the Iowa Stars of the American Hockey League (AHL) this past season and recorded eight points (3-5=8) while finishing second on the club with 137 penalty minutes. Clune, a 6-0, 195-pound native of Toronto, also skated in 19 games with the ECHL’s Idaho Steelheads this past season and registered 10 points (1-9=10) and 41 penalty minutes.

Clune finished third on his team in goals (32), assists (46) and points (78) and led his club in penalty minutes (151) while skating with the Ontario Hockey League’s (OHL) Barrie Colts during the 2006-07 season. He also led the Colts in postseason scoring with seven points (3-4=7) and eight penalty minutes in eight playoff games that year. In addition, Clune appeared in one game with the Iowa Stars that same season, recording two penalty minutes.

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  • Rich is awesome

    So yeah I was gunna post to the last blog about this, but Rich being the awesome guy that he is beat me to it.

    Thanks Rich!

    P.S. TAKE A REAL VACATION, Im sure Anthony can keep us amused. ^^

  • Manchester Fan

    I bet you Dave Taylor has a slight devilish grin on his face. He knows what they acquired.

    Combine that with Dallas’ history with Finnish players, Tukonen is in the perfect environment to succeed. Will it bite the Kings in the ass? Clune may not even make the Monarchs’ roster..

  • Ron

    I understand Tukonen was no longer in the plans but this seeme to be a lateral move at best. I don’t really see the point. I guess it was one of those get something before you can’t get anything moves. Bummer to see Tukonen not pan out, when we drafted him I had high hopes. Hopefully he can play in Manchester for us. Time will tell. Best of luck to Tukonen.

  • JDM

    I know a lot of people are confused and upset by this trade, but really… why? Tukonen hasn’t done anything since being drafted to give anyone a real reason to think him a great prospect. Clune sounds like the guy to replace Ivans if Westgarth can’t. Either way, its such a minor trade its not worth getting all up in arms about.

    Tukonen was drafted as someone who projected to be a second line scoring forward and throughout the next several seasons was downgraded to someone who projected as a third line grinder. Sure, at 21 he can’t be written off completely; many players hit their stride out of nowhere at ~24-26. However, in four years of nothing with the Kings, its right for the Kings AND for Tukonen. I hope he straightens out somewhere else and hits his stride, but it clearly wasn’t happening here.

    As for Clune, guaranteed that DL and his staff know more about him than we do, which is, um… nothing really. Its also been a constant that DL drafts and acquires for character as much as he does skill… Cloutier being the exception, but also being mostly Crawfords fault, so who knows, perhaps Clune is a real character type, stand up for him teammates, inspiring-type role player. That would be nice… Hopefully this guy will be an Avery type aggressor who isn’t such a locker room poison… which by all accounts, Tukonen was. One more reason to be either apathetic or moderately pleased about this trade.

    There’s just no real reason to be upset at DL on this one.

  • KingsFan4Life

    I thought the Kings might give Tukonen another year before shipping him out. I guess with no real improvements in his stats over the last 3 years, the nagging shoulder injury he seemed to have, & with other strong RW prospects like Purcell, Moller & Simmonds, Tukonen became expendable.

  • anthony

    Anybody retarded enough to give up on a 21 year old former 1st round pick is not qualified enough to call himself a GM.

    First of all, I’m not totally against trading Tukonen. He clearly under-achieved while in the system.
    But trading him for a bag of ECHL used pucks is idiotic. I mean this player isn’t even ranked 2oth on the Stars prospect list. Another 5’11 enforcer. Give me a break.

    Lets face it. This move was made to dump another Dave Taylor pick. This Richard CLOWNS will never see the inside of the Staples Center.
    At least Tukonen will be reunited with Taylor and Pushkarev. I wouldn’t even doubt it if DT helped make this deal.

    I also want to mention that Tukonen wasn’t given much of chance with the Kings.
    In the only game he played last season, he played about 9 minutes with loser 4th line players (Scott Thornton, Ivanans & Armstrong). Hell even Crosby and Malkin wouldn’t be able to perform with those players.
    Tukonen is a good player whose been hampered with injuries and bad luck. Talent just doesn’t go away. Dallas loves these Finish players. Tukonen will have his shot to make the Kings regret this move.

    If you’re gonna trade Tukonen, you should get something in return. I’d be happier with a mid round draft pick. Not this Richard CLOWN. If this is the best DL can do, then DL should go back to scouting.

  • Quisp

    The reason for the trade is simple, it seems to me. Tukonen has obviously not panned out to date, and others have passed him on the depth chart. As has been pointed out, he has been downgraded to a prospective 3rd line winger. The important thing to keep in mind is, at this point, even if he did “pan out” all of the sudden — say in a couple of years — there’s no room for him. Purcell, Moulson, Boyle, Moller, Simmonds, Cliche, Lewis, Holloway, Parse, Meckler, just to name a few, are all better bets.

    When I saw the headline, I thought to myself, I hope we got a left wing prospect with some grit. So to me at least the trade makes perfect sense for all concerned.

    Also, it seems to me LT was Taylor’s pick, so maybe there’s a little bit of DL making over the team in his image. Of course, if LT had shown the Kings anything, it would be a different story.

  • Anonymous

    clune > kanko?

  • ivanans

    Damn you guys are crazy. Don’t you see that he will bring more fights to the team. he’s a perfect middle weight. would you rather have a third line winger like tukonen that rarely throws the body and just skates around with his stick out to poke check? or would you rather have this guy who goes in the corners hard, throws hits, fights, just action packed. i could see him and simmonds in the future on the 3rd line. you goes are f’ing crazy if you liked Tukonen over this guy. Tukonen NEVER impressed anyone in the training camp to make himself stand out. I rest my case.

  • Damen

    Tukonen was due a qualifying offer next Summer or he would become a UFA. Now we all know at the rate he was going he was not going to get that offer from the Kings. Clune isn’t due that qualifying offer till Summer of 2010. Dean swapped long shot prospects and got an extra year thrown in.

  • yesitscal

    Just a swap of spare parts, really. If Clune makes it to L.A. he can provide some grit, but most likely he was just acquired to fill a spot in Manchester or Ontario.

  • mask0425la

    @ JDM

    “Clune sounds like the guy to replace Ivans if Westgarth can’t.”

    Are you kidding – the guy is listed at 5’11″/6′, 195 lbs – there is NO friggin’ way he can fight Parros, Shelley, McGratton (now in PHX) or anyone of that breed. He’d be lucky to get a crack at Avery if he ever wears a Kings jersey (not counting outside the arena that is).

    I sure hope the scouts know something we don’t b/c on paper it looks like yet another trade where the Kings got raked.

  • Mark

    We couldn’t even get a lower draft pick for him?

  • psycho

    this is a good move for Tuk and the King. It gives Tuk the chance to play in a new atmosphere after obviously feeling the effects of falling further and further down the depth chart. In essence, DL is doing him a favor by trading him. Clune seems like a player that will do the dirty work while chipping in a few goals once in a while. Sure it would have been nice for Tuk to show what he is really made of with the Kings, but it didn’t work. Time to move on. Good luck Tuk.

  • Hindsight 20/20

    Question:
    What do Drew Stafford, Alexander Radulov, Travis Zajac, Wojtek Wolski, Andrej Meszaros, Mike Green, Brandon Dubinsky, Johan Franzen, and Mark Streit ALL HAVE IN COMMON?

    Answer:
    They were all selected AFTER Lauri Tukonen in the 2004 NHL entry draft.

    Thats why you should never draft a guy with a girls first name.

  • CiscoC

    At 6′ 195, he is not going to be replacing Ivanans. I see him fighting guys like the Rutuu, Avery, and Otts of the world. Maybe he’ll bring some grit into Manchester so Westgarth can move up.

  • Daniel

    Damen makes a great point.

    Also goes to show what a crap shoot the draft is. From the 2004 draft, seven 1st-rounders have yet to play and five picks (Tukonen among them) have played fewer than 10 NHL games. So out of the 30 1st round picks, 40% have yet to yield a return. Conversely, the 2003 draft only has one 1st-rounder who hasn’t played and two (Boyle among them) who haven’t played more than 10 NHL games. Or, 10% who have yet to yield a return at the NHL level.

  • Shakes

    I guess my visions of people at Staples holding signs saying “Lauri World” ala “Wally World” at the Big A in the 80′s have just gotten derailed.

    Oh well…

    Here are my nickname stabs (more so for future postings throughout the year) since one of the better ones, LuboCookie will be no longer with us…

    Anze – “KopiStar”. I’m sticking with that one again this year

    Drew Doughty – “Doughty Harry.” If he doesn’t hit anyone all year this would be terrible

    Dustin Brown – Brownie/no real nickname. I’m Indian. His name is brown. Let’s not get racist here.

    Jack Johnson – JMFJ. He doesn’t need me to make his nickname.

    Bernier – “Weekend at Bernier.” Again that was my claim to fame on the blog last year, and I’m sticking with it.

  • mrk

    weekend @ bernier. love it. that’s some funny stuff

  • Pat McGroyn

    “Doughty Harry” is simply brilliant! Well done, Shakes!

  • ryan oliver

    I have to agree with Anthony. Tuk was not given a shot at all. The times he was called up last year and the year before, he played very few minutes. How DL and the rest were able to judge that he was not a scoring line winger while he was playing on the fourth line is beyond me. Taylor for sure had something to do with this trade, and I hope Tuk plays well and makes the show

  • DellaNooch

    Ryan Oliver and Anthony…Tukonen SUCKED in the AHL, why would you want him the NHL??? If you can’t put up numbers in the AHL, then it doesn’t matter which line you play on in the NHL. I’m going to have to say you guys can’t face the fact we blew a first round pick on him, it happens, deal with it…with that said, I would have went after a draft pick instead for Tukonen…perhaps there is a need for Clownie in Manchester, who knows, this will have no effect on our upcoming season, so lets not make a big deal out of it.

  • Baumgartner22

    Tukonen traded? EVERBODY PANIC!!!

  • Quisp

    Also, come on. He’s perfect in a Stars uniform. Just picture him. It’s so easy. Just on an aesthetic level, it’s a trade that had to be made.

  • Anonymous

    TUKONEN SUCKS!!!! Thank god we’re finally rid of that sorry excuse for a first round draft pick. I can’t believe anyone is upset we traded a guy who couldn’t stay healthy enough to play in more than 62 games in the AHL, or get more than 14 goals or 36 points. He’s friggin terrible and I cant wait until Clune catches him with his head down next year and sends him crying back to Europe.

  • Jonny

    Hey Oliver and Anthony….
    Did O’sullivan start off with top line minutes? Did Moulson? When gauthier was called up he was strictly 3/rd 4th line as well… The difference is that they showed something. If Moulson can put up some points by playing on the 3rd line, Tukonen hshould have been able to do something as well. Dustin Brown didn’t start on the 1st line. All these players have worked their way up, thats how it works. Anthony you’re already calling this guy a clown and you know nothing about him. Were you pissed when a random rookie named Anze Kopitar was our first line center?? I can hear you now “A slovenian hockey player, gimme a break… why do we have a worthless kid as our star center… blah blah blah” there’s no need to judge Clune yet. We need depth, you don’t win cups by having 4 scoring lines on the ice… come on.

  • Jonny

    Some info about Clune from a review of the u-18 Canadian team… “Sarnia left winger Richard Clune was perhaps the most opportunistic of the bunch. He enjoyed a stellar tourney anchoring Team Canada’s checking line and penalty-killing units, and he was a consistent catalyst who outshined the tournament’s brighter lights with great effort and tenacity.”

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2005-05-19-red-line-report_x.htm

  • andre norway

    Anthony !!! for the 100th time you bash DL for this trade.Cant u for once shout the f… up. Tukonen had his chances with the team, he showed nothing in manchester over the last 2 seasons. I know nothing about Clune and I think he will just be a filler in manchester – giving that team some grit.Maybe Im wrong but thats my thoughts of this trade.
    I must ask you Anthony. DID you attend the breakfast with the GM in march??? If you DID you had seen DL deptchart and either tukonen or petiot was in his plans for the big team. And also you would have heard DL plans and how he think a team should be build. YOU build from the backend. Thats why we have bernier, quick,taylor, zatkoff,ersberg. Thats why we draft so many young defensemen – you dont know if they will pan out, get injured and so on. If they all pan out in the next 2-4 years we will have so many good d men to trade for our final piece that brings lord stanley to where it belongs. LOS ANGELES. I dont like loosing like you all but Im giving DL the benefit of a doubt and trust him this season and the next season. Army or Brown for CAPTAINS. PS! Jim Fox thinks Army will be perfect to captain this team this season.

  • yesitscal

    Hey Hindsight 20/20, be careful about your theory. Jody Shelly has two girls names and you probably wouldn’t want to present your theory to him face-to-face…

  • ManchesterFan

    @Jonny “Did O’sullivan start off with top line minutes? Did Moulson? When gauthier was called up he was strictly 3/rd 4th line as well… The difference is that they showed something. If Moulson can put up some points by playing on the 3rd line, Tukonen should have been able to do something as well.”

    Tukonen only played ONE game last season. ONE. Obviously you need to play more than that to properly evaluate a prospect.

    With that said, he did show something. After tuks was sent back down he was playing the best we’ve ever seen him – finally showing that potential of his.

    I have a feeling he’s going to steal a roster spot for the Stars next season.

  • OC Kings Fan

    Tukonen was known for his attitude problems in Manchester and was the unnamed player that got into an arguement with Crawford. He thought that being a first round pick would get him to the NHL alone. He barely cracked the lineup in Manchester and was often a healthy scratch (the few times he was healthy).

    Looks like “Dumpster Dave” just raided a familiar dumpster on this trade. Tukonen would most likely have been released at the end of his contract anyways, so at least Lombardi got something for what would have been nothing.

    Hopefully Brett Hull can knock some sense into this kid, Hextall/Lombardi couldn’t get through to him.

  • anjae11eden

    My 2 cents:

    I’m a Kings fan that lives in NH and go to my share of Monarchs games. I have seen Tukonen play numerous times and on the games that he did show “something”, that something was just a little effort. Nothing more. There were no flashes of offensive brilliance, and no signs of the physical “potential power forward” player he was advertised as. Those were the games that he showed “something”. Most of the time he was pretty invisible. Also, this past season he was a veteran Monarch player that was scratched come play-off time. Does that tell you anything? Not knocking the guy. Just saying what I saw when I attended games.
    Lets clarify a couple things:
    Because you display a willingness to drop the gloves does NOT make you an enforcer or a heavy-weight. It makes you a guy willing to drop the gloves.
    The only thing about this trade that is disappointing is that it looks like another wasted first rounder from the previous regime. Time will tell for sure.
    As far as the actual trade goes…
    Both are now projected to be potential third line grinders. One of them is a first round pick that was projected to be a 2nd liner with 2-way play and has shown no signs of that so he has “dropped” now to the 3rd line grinder role.
    The other is a guy that is projected to be a third line grinder because he may not have the natural god-given skill so he goes out and contributes any way he can. He will fight guys that have several inches on him and outweigh him by 30 pounds. He plays that role well and gets noticed for it. Which projected 3rd line player would you really want?
    At the end of the day the Kings traded “potential” 3rd line grinders. Nothing exciting or to get up in arms about. The only real disappointment is that it looks like another 1st round pick didn’t pan out…at least for the Kings.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t mind this trade at all. Tukonen showed absolutely nothing during his time with the Kings organization. Last year he had 9 goals 26 assists in 62 games with Manchester. Does this sound like someone who should have been drafted high in the 1st round? The guy showed absolutely nothing when the Kings brought him up. A little effort would have been nice to see, but he showed no effort when he was up here. He is young and maybe things will change, but I saw no reason to believe he would ever turn out to be an NHL caliber player.

    As Jonny mentioned, Clune is a character player who gives 100% effort all of the time. Talent and no work ethic=journeyman minor leaguer.

    Example was Ellis last year. The guy doesn’t have the talent of a 1st round pick, but he gave 100% effort every shift. That’s the guy I want on my team…not a primadonna 1st round bust who’s lazy.

    Instead of people bashing DL for trading this guy, how about getting on Dave Taylor for picking this guy? It seems to me there wasn’t much scouting put into this pick. I’m sure his effort, or lack therof was evident before drafting him.

  • Irish Pat

    Jonny,

    Thanks for the USA Today article. I scrolled down and found this extra bit of info for those Kings fans that didn’t click into the link you provided:

    Richard Clune, LW, Sarnia: Slipped through the cracks a bit in Red Line’s rankings, but we remembered why we liked him at the World U-18s. He’s so sound in all three zones and plays bigger than his size. He does all the little things well and anchored Canada’s checking line and PK unit.

    Sounds solid and he plays LW.

  • Jet

    This was a trade of attitudes, not abilities.

  • kyle

    ryan oliver:
    you said–”How DL and the rest were able to judge that he was not a scoring line winger while he was playing on the fourth line is beyond me.”
    I think the answer to that question may be that DL and the staff saw him play in other situations, like the minors and development camp. His time at Staples was likely immaterial to the determination that Tuokonen was not going to fit in with the Kings.
    For those of you who can find a way to break away from work and other real-world obligations, I strongly urge you to hit the development camp during the summer. It’s not nearly as exciting as training camp for the big club, and you’ll watch endless drills, but it gives you a good idea of the skill sets the staff is looking for and shows how far from NHL-level play some picks are when they hit their first camp. The problem for some players, like Tuokonen, is that even after several camps, (and even training camp and Manchester) the skill set doesn’t improve enough. Maybe he’ll fit better in the Stars’ system, and if he does, good for him. No one wants him to fail. And Anthony–enough with the bastardization of Clune’s name…it’s just not funny or clever.

  • mrbrett7

    This isn’t too difficult to figure out here people.

    Tukonen’s ONLY value is that of a top 6 forward. If can’t crack the top 6 in Manchester, then WTF are we keeping him around for????

    I don’t care if he was the #1 overall pick. You dump his ass and move on with your life.

    For the love of Christ…I can’t believe there are this many comments on the trade of a 1st round bust.

    What…no comments on the bust of Andrei Sheffer? Dave Taylor drafted him also…isn’t that Dean Lombardi’s fault as well?

    Tukonen, at this point, is behind no less than 9 other prospects at his position. So Lombardi picked up a character prospect, something this organization lacks on the 3rd and 4th line. Aside from Zeiler, the Kings and Manchester do not have ONE agitator…not ONE.

    For the love of God…does anyone around here actually watch hockey?

  • gumlegs

    Look on the bright side. The kings got nothing for David Steckel, another kings first round draft choice. Steckel was pretty much relegated to the Reading Royals during his tenure with the King’s organization. Who needs a 6’5″ 215 lbs checking center who is strong on face-offs and penalty kills? The Washington Capitols.

  • brianguy

    mrbrett7 makes a good point.. Tukonen was fading on the depth chart fast. also, Clune has only played 58 games as a pro and is only 21. give the guy a chance. he has a ways to go, but in the future could turn out to be a good 3rd line banger – which Dallas has plenty of and probably no need to wait longer for another one.

    Tukonen is “closer” to the NHL now in theory but the Kings know he’s not much of a fit long term and his upside is not looking as high as once thought.

  • brianguy

    I agree with Damen et al the contract situation for Tuk was not good. see ya have fun with the Finnish faction in Dal

  • brianguy

    perspective, let’s put these names together for a second.

    Brown
    Ivanans
    JMFJ
    Teubert
    Boyle
    Simmonds
    Cliche
    Westgarth
    Clune

    … I would not want to play against the Kings in about 2 or 3 years.

  • Captain Material

    Anthony…it seems like you just don’t like taking your medication on a regular schedule. These mood swings would even out if you could just keep regular on that.

    I can see how this is a good move for Tukonen and how he had been passed on the depth chart and wasn’t doing us any good, but it seems like we got no return here. People talking how Clune has a future here just seem to be going on wishful thinking.

    I don’t know, but it seems like when we have a guy who doesn’t fit here, we have a tendancy to just give that guy away instead of getting a good return for him. Addition by subtraction works in some cases (like for any team with Sean Avery on their roster), but it doesn’t seem like we got good returns on a few of the guys we have shed, including this one.

    Even if a guy doesn’t fit here, if he’s got value for another team, you’d think we could at least try and get some back for him.

  • brianguy

    by the way Tukonen had 9 goals in Manchester last year… NINE. if anything he regressed last season. compare this to guys like O’Sullivan or Brown who dominated at that level

  • Anonymous

    Maybe Tukonen was the player to be named later in the Norstrom trade. We essentially got Teubert, Moller, Cameron, Clune, and Fransson, For Norstrom, Korostin, and Push…
    I’m just kidding of course… but I think we did OK…

  • brianguy

    Brown, Purcell, and Moller are all better than Tukonen on RW, and the Kings also have Simmonds Cliche and Westgarth in addition to that. so what did anyone really expect them to do? think about it

  • nykingfan

    I think the reason that we’ve gotten so little in return for our players is pretty simple. WE SUCK!!

    There’s a reason we’ve been in last place…our veterans suck like no other’s team does. You certainly can’t blame last place on guys like Kopi, Sully, Brown, JJ, Fro..etc. But you sure can on guys like Handzus, Calder, Nagy, etc…and this isn’t a knock on DL. These were bridge guys, with the exception of Handzus. Does anyone really think Calder will be a King when we begin to have success? he’s a player who’s role in the organization is to hold a spot for a developing young player. And when the Kid is ready, goodbye Calder. That’s what a bridge player is, for the most part. You’d like to get success out of them, or at least, show the young players a good work ethic. But they aren’t going to be their in the future.
    For the Kings to have a bright future, the veterans will be the Kopitar’s, Brown, Sully, JJ etc. When that time comes, the Kings will be in play for big name free agents and top guys available at the trade deadline. The organization will have enough depth to be able to acquire those type of guys, without bankrupting your future.

  • Daniel

    mrBrett7 – Yes, we all watch hockey here. Some just process it differently than others.

    I don’t mind dissenting opinions, nor do I mind the seemingly delusional, misinformed and down-right crazy posts. What you all have to agree is that the fact that a post on a blog about hockey …in Los Angeles …in JULY …is getting this many hits and comments is AWESOME.

    Go look at the other blogs the Daily News runs. Kershaw being recalled? 4 comments. LaRoche on the trading block? 3 comments. Clippers trade for Camby? ZERO. In fact, I couldn’t find one post on the Clippers blog that had ANY comments.

    To that, let’s stop calling referring to the Kings as the Clippers of the NHL. We are not. More like …the Portland TrailBlazers …with one less World Championship.

    OK?

  • Harry

    Why do us fans get so upset at times, and the organization does not “care” ????????/

  • Milton Waddams

    There’s no way that there would be 40 some odd comments about this trade if it was in November versus the middle of July.

  • mrbrett7

    Of course there would have been Milton…Kings fans aren’t too smart.

  • VisionQuest

    id just like to point out that Lauri was NOT the best lockerroom guy, even in manchester.

  • Tuke is a joke

    Never cared for the guy and never saw an ounce of promise anywhere. The guy was a bust, dead weight at Manchester, and a bad influence when it came to attitude and work ethic. Hell, if Dean just released him w/o anything in return I’d be ok w/ it. We don’t need cancers in our system. With that in mind, I welcome Clune and hope his tenacious spirit allows him to eventually make the Kings and be an asset, not an a** like Tuke. So long sucker.

  • Eric K

    Trail Blazers? hmm… i like to think of us as the Tampa Bay Rays of the NHL. with better attendance! hopefully, 2009-2010 will be for us what 2008 has been for the Rays.

    by the way, i’m suprised how indifferent i feel about the trade of a former first rounder.

  • JDM

    The offseason is torture and results in some water on the brain.

  • Jet

    To Irish Pat:

    Here is one of Clune’s fights last year. It looks like he’s giving away 3″ and 30 pounds, but he still went off a draw. You’ve got to love the heart.

    http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/37908

  • Irish Pat

    Daniel,

    Nice post. I’ve also observed the other blogs for the Daily News and was surprised by the lack of comments. Not to take a swipe at the other journalists who provide content for their respective blogs, but we are VERY spoiled by Rich and Don and the amount of work they put into this site. I would suggest to anyone to check out the blogs for any other SoCal team and you’ll realize the expectations from the Daily News management isn’t severe. Rich has been a Godsend for a fanbase that is clearly frustrated enough to lament the trading of a bust draft pick and passionate enough to bust one another’s stones about the direction the ship is sailing.

  • Daniel

    Eric K – Yes, I hope the Kings are one of the top teams in the NHL soon, too. We could compare then to any number of pro teams. I choose the Trail Blazers because they started in 1970, have a loyal fan-base (diminished a bit of late), have had spurts of success and currently have a very talented pool of young players.

    MrBrett7 – I forgot to add ‘hopelessly cynical’ to the list of negative attributes. Thanks for the reminder.

  • king & king

    Why is everybody said that Tukonen hasn’t panout yet. let me see he is only 21 yrs and put up decent number while been in and out of the line up because of injury. and another is tukonen characterize as a power forward and how power forward are their in the NHL that is 21 yrs or better yet 23 yrs. the answer is none. The only reason that DL trade him because he don’t want to do anything with DT player and that why DL has trade away player that isn’t his draft pick. so maybe the rumor about kopital is true because kopital is DT draft pick and while at DL should just trade Brown and Frovo and Boyle as well. He is the dumpest GM of All Time because he so one mind person.

  • king & king

    Why is everybody said that Tukonen hasn’t panout yet. let me see he is only 21 yrs and put up decent number while been in and out of the line up because of injury. and another is tukonen characterize as a power forward and how power forward are their in the NHL that is 21 yrs or better yet 23 yrs. the answer is none. The only reason that DL trade him because he don’t want to do anything with DT player and that why DL has trade away player that isn’t his draft pick. so maybe the rumor about kopital is true because kopital is DT draft pick and while at DL should just trade Brown and Frovo and Boyle as well. He is the dumpest GM of All Time because he so one mind person.

  • king & king

    Why is everybody said that Tukonen hasn’t panout yet. let me see he is only 21 yrs and put up decent number while been in and out of the line up because of injury. and another is tukonen characterize as a power forward and how power forward are their in the NHL that is 21 yrs or better yet 23 yrs. the answer is none. The only reason that DL trade him because he don’t want to do anything with DT player and that why DL has trade away player that isn’t his draft pick. so maybe the rumor about kopital is true because kopital is DT draft pick and while at DL should just trade Brown and Frovo and Boyle as well. He is the dumpest GM of All Time because he so one mind person.

  • yesitscal

    Clippers? Rays? Trailblazers? I vote for the Washington Generals…

  • gumlegs

    Irish Pat

    I appreciate your comments about Rich and the Blog. Eloquent and Truthful.

    However, the ship is not sailing in any direction. It is in dry dock while it is being rebuilt. If you believe AEG we can expect it to sail in 2, 3 of 4 years.

  • Someone

    mrbrett7:

    Considering that most of the posts on this page are either supportive of the trade (like yourself) or indifferent towards it the following general statements are uncalled for.

    “For the love of God…does anyone around here actually watch hockey?”

    “Of course there would have been Milton…Kings fans aren’t too smart.”

  • royalmonarch

    As a Manchester Monarchs season ticket holder i can tell you that Lauri has had every opportunity to advance to the Kings to stay but has not been able to put it all together in his 4 years in Manchester. There were times when he was very good both offensively and on defense but unfortunately there were too many other nights when he looked like a lost soul out there on the ice. I wish him nothing but the best , he is a great guy ,but he definitely needed a change of scenery.

  • Kings fans for change

    This really should be the official message board of the Kings.
    Great comments, it screams frustration and hope without the extra c**p.

  • Gordon Gecko

    I for one, like this deal!

    Richard Clune plays much like his former minor league teammate Daniel Carcillo of the Coyotes.

    They played together at Sarnia 03-05. Both are scrapper left wingers; 5’11″, 200 pound AGITATORS. They model their ‘game’ after another current pesky NHL player (former King). Neither will EVER shy away from a bout, even against a much bigger opponent. And, both can produce points!

    Lauri, nice knowing you. Best of luck in your future. (Dallas blows)

    THANK YOU DL! Kings Vision Rules!

    Clune over Lauri ANY day.

    Clune
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLBnLDnxV1k

    Carcillo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8f9SE7W5Gk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-8Q1meuD8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXwf_hOt6hw

    (didn’t ya’ll like “Rats” right hand?)

  • Shakes

    @ Milton
    The reason why there would never be 50+ comments on a blog posting in November is because Rich updates the site like 10 times a day and all of our daily comments get spread out.

    But if i take a step back it is pretty badass to have this many hits in July.

    Only 61 days…

  • Bob Bobson

    No comments on the trade, no anthony bashing. Just a big thank you to Rich for once more giving us something to yell and scream to each other about. And although I disagree with some people sentiments I do enjoy being able to debate the Kings with people in JULY. First time I have been able to do this.

  • SuperSonic420

    Shakes is right, but could you imagine how much traffic you’d have Rich, if Kopitar really was traded! I think your server would blow up! Pretty funny how every other so called “hockey city” bashes us for our market, but it just proves how much you guys love hockey, and good or bad, love the Kings. If you didnt you wouldnt be here or you’d be trolling. Point is, a trade like this no matter how meaningless or how meaningful in the long run, it just proves how loyal and knowledgable about the game and team you are. And I thank Rich for that, and I thank all of you guys, even anthony, for bringing things to the discussion maybe someone hadnt considered or missed and for sharing links. Its all good stuff. Thank you for getting me through a long summer in humid Florida.

    Look, follow this team for better or worse… mostly worse, but there is promise, and its coming soon! This team will be young, fast, and very exciting to watch, and in a few years we will own teams like Dallas, Colorado, and San Jose. So dont worry too much about guys like Tukonen and Blake and all that. Because in the end, we will end up with Young exciting Kopitar that turns into the experienced, highly skilled Kopitar, into dominant veteran all world hockey star Anze Kopitar. A name no all-star announcer would ever screw up again! Watching Brown become the all around power forward we dreamed we were getting when he was drafted. Watching Sully dazzle us night after night with his offensive prowess and inspired defenisve play. Our young defensive core turning into one of the most dominant bluelines ever seen in Los Angeles or pretty much anywhere else for that matter (outside of Montreal and maybe NJ)! And of course Jonathan Bernier becoming the next great french-canadian goaltender, and just maybe the Kings savior in goal. Who knows? I just know its gonna be fun to watch!

  • JDM

    here here! A tip of my hat to you sir.

  • John Strachan

    Clune may not be quite the nobody that everyone makes him out to be. He was a member of the 2005 Gold Winning U-18 club and was a decent 2nd round pick going into Juniors. The thing is that Clune realized that he wasn’t going to make it based on skill alone and worked on rounding out his game so that he could make to the bigs anyway that he could. Compare that to Tukonen who has been given many opportunities to succeed, including bypassing Canadian Jrs in being brought over to play in the AHL as an underager at 19, but who seems to only want to play hockey on his terms. Tukonen was pretty advanced at 15 and 17, but as other young players have been catching up, Lauri has stagnated and his development has stalled.

    This is your typical change of scenery trade. Tukonen had already mapped out his path in the Kings organization and had decided that he wasn’t going to do what the Kings wanted him to do, but that he could prove to them that he could succeed on his own. Unfortunately, it just wasn’t working. Perhaps Tukonen can get his career back on track in Dallas, but now he also has to make up the 2 or 3 years of development time that he wasted in Manchester just to catch up to guys in the draft classes around him. If he wants to play in the NHL, he is going to have to do more than just catch the guys around him, he is going to have to beat them all out for jobs.

    Tukonen has, or perhaps more succinctly at this point in his career, HAD more talent than Clune, but he has wasted it. Clune doesn’t have as much talent, but you know exactly what you are going to get and you know that Clune is going to work his butt off to do all the little things that will get him a shot at a regular spot in the NHL. Watching Tukonen at the prospect camps and the training camps, as well as following his development in Manchester, you just never really got the sense that Tukonen was willing to give it everything that he had to get a shot to play in the NHL, much less try to win a regular spot.

  • Shutout

    Is anybody tired of being patient? Get used to last place again this season. The team can hardly fill out a roster and they will get blown out in almost every game. Maybe the 18 year-olds can learn from the veteran players on the opposing teams since they don’t have a 50 goal scorer or future hall of famer on D to emulate. Maybe Staples Center can tilt the ice so the puck can end up in the opponents’ zone once in a while. I only say this because I’ve been a fan for 20 years and I want some success before 20 more years passes by.

  • Anonymous

    Any word on O’Sullivan?

  • nykingfan

    well said Supersonic420

  • Anonymous

    You just gave me chills SuperSonic!

  • http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/17323-Double-OT-Patience-will-pay-off-for-Kings.html Anonymous
  • Pat McGroyn

    Good stuff, SuperSonic420! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and holding a great perspective about the Kings and this blog!!!

  • Anonymous

    Rich – maybe you’ll be able to provide insight, but there was a blog linked to Yahoo!’s NHL page that indicated that the Kings were effectively holding on O’Sullivan in order to get Kopitar signed long term, thus forcing O’Sullivan into something lower than what Kopitar received – do you see any truth in that rumor?

  • SuperSonic420

    Gordon Gecko said:
    Richard Clune plays much like his former minor league teammate Daniel Carcillo of the Coyotes.

    They played together at Sarnia 03-05. Both are scrapper left wingers; 5’11″, 200 pound AGITATORS. They model their ‘game’ after another current pesky NHL player (former King).

    I hope that former King you are refering to plays for Colorado and not Dallas!

  • cristobal

    for those bashing Tukonen for not developing into what he was billed as…..he has just as much chance of becoming a good or great nhl player as the kings have of becoming a good nhl team. He’s 21, the same age as jack johnson. Johnson and O’sullivan were given lots of 1st team action to get to where they are now – developing.
    Tukonen would hardly have been expected to have a positive outlook when he was being passed over for the likes of zeiler and guiliano.
    Dustin Brown WAS played on the first line with Pallfy and Allison when he first saw nhl time, he suffered an ankle injury that set him back a bit.
    It’s great to see Lombardi give up on a guy so young instead of taking him in and finding out how to motivate them to reach their potential.
    Tukonen probably regrets even coming to the states, and who can blame him…..i’m sure finnish kids don’t dream of winning the AHL championship. F-ing Kanko could probably have told him he’d never get a chance because LA likes 4th line grinders more than 2nd line scoring.

  • DellaNooch

    Almost 80 comments, good to see the passion…

    Cristobal – There are more holes in your argument than the titanic.

    Sully – Put up over 80 points in his AHL Rookie year, Tuk has had 4 years and never got close to that production…when Sully struggled a year ago, he went down to Manchester, got his act together and came back improved from the first game, Tuk has showed nothing in any of his NHL games

    Brownie – Did not start his NHL as a 1st liner, he worked his way up and played a grinder role until last year…when was the last time you heard of Tuk’s thunderous check? You didn’t, cuz it never happened, Tuk has not proven himself like Brownie

    JMFJ – Different position and JMFJ will always be better than Tuk, that’s obvious. JMFJ showed he belonged in the NHL last year, thus he never had to do AHL time.

    Why don’t you compare him to Brian Boyle, also a first round pick, he’s coming off his first year in Manchester where he played defense and center. He blew Tuk out of the water in points and passed him on the depth chart. Boyle was given only 8 NHL games, he had 4 goals…Tuk? It’s all about seizing the opportunity, Tukenon didn’t do that, it’s his fault and his alone…I hope this helps get him back on track, but one thing is for sure, we need to part ways to make room for our new guys in Manchester

  • cristobal

    DellaNooch – Do i need to remind you how pathetic the Kings defense was last year? Johnson may show promise but he’s nowhere near what the kings absolutely need. Can he honestly be classified as better than even Tim Gleason yet?….a player Taylor got for Smolinski?
    O’sullivan is 2 years older than Tukonen so development in this case is not exactly comparable. And, O’sullivan is an american, living in america; whereas Tukonen left his native country to play in the AHL??? I’m sorry, but if the Kings don’t know how to develop talent, that is their problem. Kanko scored goals when he got his 4 minutes per game and was still sent back to manchester to make way for zeiler and guliano and chartrand.
    Finally, Boyle was drafted out of high school hockey because of his potential and his size. Tukonen, for sure, does not have the size of a Boyle…and all credit to Boyle, he worked and has done Dave Taylor proud…but here again it is probably harder for someone like Tukonen to develop in the AHL than it is in the NHL.
    If Zetterburg were drafted by LA nobody would have ever heard of him.

  • cristobal

    and don’t dare tell me Brown didn’t get playing time with Pallfy and Allison. You either didn’t watch the games, or you’re a liar.

  • cristobal

    anyway, what did scoring goals when he got the opportunity ever do for Pushkarev?

  • JDM

    Yeah… um, erm… Pushkarev’s 2 NHL goals and 3 assists really were outstanding… I like the guy, come on geez, it’s not like he came out, lit it up and then got sent down. If you want to make that argument with Boyle as DellaNooch suggests, well then… well you’d actually have an argument. Though Boyle’s getting sent down made some sense for his development (even though I was so mad to see him go).
    And Kanko…???? 1 goal in the NHL dude. 10 games. 1 goal. Not “Kanko scored goalS when he got his 4 minutes per game and was still sent back to manchester”

    Zeiler and Guilanio played much more effectively than Kanko, and if you hadn’t noticed, scoring goals isn’t the only thing that matters. You want rookies to be noticable on the ice because of their effort. Pushkarev was for sure, and again, I would have liked to keep him, but oh well, ce la vie. But Tukonen?

    1 word.

    Nope.

    5 NHL games. 2 registered shot with a minus-2. Not exactly a huge body of work to draw from, but what he does have is a reputation for being a wad of crap. Boyle could have thrown a fit, and with a legit reason, when he got sent down. But he didn’t. And what that got him was, straight from DL’s mouth, that there’s a roster spot that’s his to lose.

    Anyone who hasn’t noticed that DL drafts, trades and signs players for their disposition just as much as for their talent, and subsequently trashes a move he makes without considering that fact into the equation, really, well… ah I don’t wanna curse anyone out for being dumb…

    God forbid anyone consider chemistry on a team. Krownwall and Zetterberg, et all work for Detroit because of their talent, but also largely because they fit right in, both in their attitudes and styles for the game. Tukonen would have had a spot, had he played like he’s supposed to… and I don’t mean scoring goals so much as playing with grit and ferver, which in 5 NHL games he showed none of. He’s had chances and challenges to rise to the ocasion, but just simply didn’t. What’s worse, by all reports he griped about it like a child. But he didn’t. So he’s gone.

    And so what?

  • Quisp

    cristobal — in addition to the obvious (Tukonen underperformed in the AHL) — there is simply no room on the Kings for him. The Kings believe he is not going to be better than Purcell, Moulson, Boyle, Simmonds, Moller, not to mention (obviously) Kopitar, Frolov, O’Sullivan and Brown. Count them up, that’s nine players most of whom project top-six or are there already. I didn’t mention Parse, Cliche or Lewis, all of whom are above Tukonen in the depth chart. Maybe Cliche isn’t, I forget. But the point is, it’s a good “gamble” that Tukonen doesn’t fit and won’t be needed or missed. Meanwhile, a gritty left winger, that’s something we need. The reason Tukonen didn’t get called up when Zeiler did, or Giuliano, is because of the roles those players play. Tukonen may eventually be a top-six forward somewhere, but he’s never going to be on your grinder line.

    And re Zetterberg, I don’t think if he was in the Kings organization he would have had much trouble in Manchester.

    Not every prospect pans out. And some late rounders become Hall of Famers. Zetterberg (probably), Luc.

    And re O’Sullivan vs. Tukonen: please. In addition to what has already been pointed out (POS produced in the minors and earned his way to the first line), you make it sound like POS had it easy by comparison because he’s from here. Anyone who knows his story knows he’s survived some horrible s**t, so horrible in fact that many teams and scouts assumed he just couldn’t have survived it without being seriously mentally f-ed up and therefore was not a good bet as a prospect; that he has to this point proved them all wrong is a major achievement and testament to his character. By comparison, Tukonen’s culture shock is a trip to Disneyland.

    And I like Tim Gleason, but JJ has a much much bigger upside, which he is very likely to reach.

  • Jeremy

    Whether you think they let him go too early or if he just isnt talented enough, the bottom line its another wasted Kings first round pick. Maybe he is a late bloomer, but if he is a FA this time next year he isnt coming back so I understand getting something for him. Either way, he wont be doing anything for the Kings ever. Whether its a DT or DL pick, who cares, its another bad mark for a team that even since that draft has been trying to get younger. This is a problem that continues and contributes to the losing mentality of this team.

    I think I was the only Kings fan at the draft that day and Lauri signed an autograph for me minutes after he was drafted when he saw me in my Luc jersey. I really wanted him to succeed. Its a shame it didnt work out.

  • nykingfan

    Cristobal
    So you feel that since he came over to the states, that should guarantee him a spot on the NHL roster?
    I’m trying to guess whether you know this guy personally or not..but if all the reports state that he has a poor work ethic..who’s fault is that? Do you know him to be a hard worker?
    If not, there is no way anyone can question the Kings move in getting rid of him. It’s all about hard work and production. Every year the Kings draft players and some of those guys are going to be sent to Manchester. That means some guys have to go…

    Using JJ’s age in comparison to Tukonen’s is silly, but for arguments sake…then lets compare Tukonen to Kopitar. Since they’re the same age, why hasn’t Tukonen reached the potential of Kopitar? They were both 1st round picks..in fact I believe Tukonen was drafted higher. They’re both from Europe….

  • Jet

    Cristobal

    Not to pile on, but I could not let one of your insights pass without commenting.

    “It’s great to see Lombardi give up on a guy so young instead of taking him in and finding out how to motivate them to reach their potential.”

    I believe this was the entire point of the trade. The organization does not need players who we need to try and discover how or if we can motivate them. It does not matter how much talent you have, or when you were drafted, or how many points you put up in Jrs., you must come to ice mentally and physically prepared every time. The learning curve for everyone takes on an exponential shape if all players are prepared (including self-motivated) at the start of every practice. This is how you pass other teams who think they are practicing hard. This trade sends the message loud and clear to every prospect in the organization to be prepared to practice hard, be prepared to play hard or be prepared to walk. We will no longer baby-sit.

    This trade may have been the most important piece the rebuilding effort when we looked back at in 3 or 4 years.

    DL can be bashed for other items, but this is far from one of them. I am not sure that any other current GM would have done it, because of the heat of admitting a 1st round bust. Kudos to Dean “Big Balls” Lombardi on this one.

  • DellaNooch

    Cristobal – If your point is that Finnish players, like Tukenon, will need time to adapt to North America before becoming productive, than you clearly have not done your research…Look at the NHL Rookie RECORDS for Goal Scoring & Points…who’s name is there…let me give you a hint…he’s Finnish, scored 76 goals and 132 points playing on a bad Winnipeg team…he had no prior North American experience before Winnipeg….he’s one of our favorite players to hate as a Kings fan, Teemu Selanne.

    A poor Kings defense should not be put on JMFJ, he was a rookie and he was definitely better in his first year than jouneyman Gleason

    Brown might have played with Palffy & Allison during the season, but that was not his primary line and again, Brown might not have been able to score in his first year, but he definitely could check on any line…Tukenon didn’t.

    Pushkarev – 5 points in 17 NHL games, are you kidding me? He’s 23 been in the AHL for 3 seasons and has never scored as many points in a season as Purcells, Boyle, and Moulson, which one were you going to part with to keep Pushkarev?

    Your argument is based on poor assumptions, do some research next time before you make outlandish statements.

  • Duckhunter

    DellaNooch, you have to give my boy Gleason a little credit- he’s more valuable than a journeyman isn’t he? I liked that kid. He was thrown in the fire here, and did pretty well I thought. He gave an effort and did the best he could. I actually like Belanger as well. Wish we could have JJ, Gleason and Belanger all together. I would really like that.

  • -J

    Journeyman? Gleason has only been on two teams, and signed on for 4 more years with Carolina.

    He’s not a bad D-man, but I’d take Johnson anyday day over Gleason.

  • cristobal

    Some of you people are off your rockers.
    Do you realize your team was dead last in the NHL last year and Lombardi couldn’t even figure out how to get the 1st overall pick in 2008?
    All Dellanooch knows how to do is look at statistics….Tukonen was never supposed to be anything like Selanne, and the fact you love to hate Selanne speaks volumes about your brainwashing. You love to hate great players? I don’t care who he plays for, Selanne is one of my favorite players of all time.
    You blind Kings fans love a “gritty right winger” but you don’t understand how a european might come here and lose his way when he’s told to “dump the puck in and go forecheck”.
    What have the Kings ever shown Tukonen? Did they have any solid tactics? Are they building off a foundation? What did they have to lose by playing him 60-80 games in the NHL?
    We’re talking about the NHL. The kings are an AHL team.
    DellaNooch – Why is JMFJ better than Gleason? You’re just repeating what you’re told. The kings will be happy if JJ is the equal of Brad Stuart, but they need Dion Phaneuf.
    Where is Lombardi’s Penner and Kunitz?
    Where is Lombardi’s Selanne?
    Where is Lombardi’s Beachemin?
    his Getzlaf and Perry?

  • JDM

    ah, and so cristobal reveals his true colors… ugly ducks purple.

    I’m glad Lombardi doesn’t have a Penner… you know, a bright star he lost to an offer sheet.

    If you call Getzlaf and Perry Burkes guys, then you might as well call Brown and Kopitar Lombardi’s.

    I’ll take O’Sullivan over Kunitz and Penner any day.

    JJ will be better than Beachemin. I also think he’s better than Gleason. Was Gleason playing as a top-pairing dman last season? Honestly I don’t know, but I doubt it with Carolina’s defense as it is. Let me know if I’m wrong. And while JJ was only top-pairing because of lack of strength at D, for a rook he did a damn good job considering the circumstances. Better than Gleason did as a bottom pairing rookie.

    60-80 NHL games? You have to earn that buddy. No one gets tossed into a full NHL season because a GM wants to see how they do if given so many games. You get a try out, if you don’t take advantage of it, sorry. That’s not just hockey, that’s life.

  • JDM

    One more thing.

    Loving to hate good players on opposing team is called being a sports fan.

  • cristobal

    JDM – I’m not going to bash Johnson or O’sullivan, they are good, talented players. I also feel Gleason an Belanger were good for the Kings. As was Demitra.
    Who I’m really being critical of here is Dean Lombardi because he has destroyed a decent team.
    He coups are transaction any GM could have made.
    My point about what the GM’s at Anaheim have done is that it takes some savvy to bring in Selanne at a time when everyone thought he was finished. To trade Fedorov and bring in Beauchemin, who is much better than JJ right now, when nobody knew who Beauchemin was. Penner and Kunitz cost Anaheim nothing, they were both undrafted free agents. Perry and Getzlaf were incredible draft choices, the types of draft choices Dean Lombardi wants us to believe he is making.
    Go ahead and drink the kool-aid if you want, but until his moves show something besides going backwards to last in the league, i’ll keep questioning him and what he’s doing.
    Finally, I don’t get that you don’t get that there was nothing to lose by playing Tukonen. I keep reminding you that zeiler and guliano (not to mention calder, willsie, handzus, and nagy) got you bottom of the league. What is the point in playing these guys over a prospect?

  • KingzzFan

    cristobal: (or is this Tukonen) For the love of god just stop, you make me appreciate anthony. Do you honestly believe they never gave him a shot? C-mon, he was our first round choice. He had every chance to make it up to the Kings as every other player does. You can’t just show up and say I was your first pick I deserve to go, Forget his states, your right, look at what he brought to the team every time he was on the ice… Nothing, he was not impressive, flashy or even noticeable… Please. And as for Cammy, HE WAS NOT GOING TO RESIGN… get it. We do not plan on making the playoffs this year so why hold on to him when we can get something for him in return. I don’t know about the rest of the people here, but I was sick of his attitude on and off the ice; when he scored a goal, he would stand there (emotionless) waiting for everybody to come to him to tell him how great he is. He was not playing for the fans (like he said in his commercial spot) he was playing for himself. Done, done & done…

    You keep throwing around “dead last” blah blah blah. You do know what rebuilding through the draft means right? It’s hard to do when youre constantly not in the bottom 1 or 2 spots. Yeah yeah, Stamkos, if we came in last DL would have probably traded away that pick because he could have gotten a couple first round picks, an NHL player and a young prospect for him. Could you imaging the bashing that would have gone on here if he did… all I’m saying What’s happening here is exciting, we’re finally building a team that we can see will be competitive for many many years.

  • JDM

    Out of Calder, Wilsie, Handzus, Nagy, Zeiler and Guiliano, I think Wilsie is the only one of that group that Tukonen could have outplayed (maybe Calder). I mean, Zeiler has no talent whatsoever, but from the very first game he played he immediately drew my attention. Same with Guiliano. When Tukonen first played I had to squint at the TV to see the names on the jerseys because if I didn’t see the name, I wouldn’t have noticed the player at all.

    Agreed, Perry and Getzlaf are up there with Kariya as top Ducks draft picks. Since you mentioned Penner and Kunitz as FA signings, then I think, though he is unproven at the NHL level for now, but not for long, that Purcell will be comparable.

    I’m also one of the few people that thinks though it may not look like it on better, and while greener for sure, that our team this year is better than the team last year. It only took DL a matter of days to turn a soft, push over defense into a mean, rugged group of bruisers, albeit with less overall talent and now a certain lack in scoring upside (which I think it fine since scoring goals has not been our problem since the disintegration of the LAPD line and until the rise of Brown and Kopitar.

    I also loved Belanger. I miss his face off prowess greatly and hope Stoll can finally replace that. Gleason was a good prospect, definately, but I was never as excited about him as others. Demitra was great, but being injured so often helps no one.

    I will agree that in his first year, DL tore down a team that was a piece or two away from being a consistent 6-8th seed.

    But I don’t want to be happy with scraping our way into the playoffs. I’m also ok with a new GM looking to make a splash right away in the form of jetisoning players he doesn’t care for a bringing in his own guys. I think its worked out ok.

    Honestly, the only two things I think DL really REALLY screwed up were Cloutier and Crawford… and personally I put 90% of the blame for Cloutier on Crawford, so really DL just screwed up big time in hiring Crawford. If Murray is the wrong coach as well then I’ll want DL gone too.

    But I have high hopes, because kool-aid tastes better than salty dirt.

  • robs

    cristobal, you hit the nail right on the head. Why didn’t they play him, it’s a good chance to evaluate him against NHL talent. I know Matt Ellis became available from waivers just as he was called up, but give the kid a chance.

    Thinking about it more, I’m not sure they traded Lauri because he was a bust. Recently there were rumors going around he expressed interest in returning to Finland next season. Maybe thats why they had to cut him loose?

    Bottom line is the Stars acquired a legit prospect with real potential. And the fact that Stars have no right-handed RWers, NONE, means Tukonen will probably make the roster and make us look silly.

  • anthony

    Where are U Rich. We miss you.
    My day is boring without you.

    Cristobal, JDM, Dellanooch.
    Understand this. Dumbo is preaching building from within.
    In his first two seasons he finished 28th & 29th.
    He has 3 more years to go before he’s gone.

    In a year or so, in order to save his job and save some face he has left, he’s gonna abondon this youth movement, and make some trades.
    He’s gonna start trading his prospects for proven veterans in order to make the playoffs. Which I’m sure is a mandate from AEG.
    In other words, he’s gonna pull a Dave Taylor.

    His purpose – to keep his job.
    And that will seal his faith as a failure.

  • cristobal

    JDM – If zeiler and guliano are you’re idea of a modern nhl’er, i cannot argue with you. these types of guys are appealing to many LA fans because they skate around really fast and take runs at people. but hockey really is about taking a hit when it’s there, not running out of position in order to excite the crowd with a half hit that fails to regain possession but is loud on the boards.
    Defense made up of a bunch of bruisers is just not going to cut it in today’s nhl. Not only lidstrom, but the younger swede kronwall know how to play the body with position, while being an offensive threat. You also point out how tough the D has become, yet Teubert may not be ready physically for this league yet. I don’t know about Hickey.
    I don’t see the team as better than last year. If you do, that’s opinion. But promoting your AHL squad to the NHL when they weren’t even the best in the AHL doesn’t convince me. Stoll is a good player, so is Greene, but they were on a better team with Edmonton and the Oilers couldn’t put it together last year.
    I could be a bit more optimistic if Lombardi were able to pry a guy like Robbie Earl away from Toronto for Tukonen, or another promising guy like Chris Bourque. Likewise, if he spent some of his FA money on a guy like Shanahan, who is a proven competitor and would be good to have around the young guys wether his skills are on the wane or not, I’d be much happier than him bringing in guys like Nagy and Handzus. I honestly believe Tukonen may have been a more productive (not on the scoresheet necessarily) than Handzus. Again, if he fails given real minutes, give up and take your 1st overall pick on Stamkos. I don’t understand how this doesn’t make sense.

  • JDM

    I would greatly welcome Shanahan too.

    I think the team is better because I’m starting to see a better amalgamation of players and player types than we’ve had in the past. I have the feeling this squad will gel. Obviously an opinion, and I can’t be sure and I’ll change that opinion if it pans out not to be accurate.

    As for Zeiler and Guiliano… your comments can be applied to Zeiler, who was running around a bit and I can admit my like of him is more for entertainment value than his contributions. However Guiliano is a very solid defensive player in my estimation. He plays with energy but is very mindful of position.

    As for the defense, I was referring to Greene and Gauthier more than Teubert. Perhaps DL didn’t get the most value for Tukonen. He certainly would have gotten a better return if he traded him 2 seasons ago. Tukonen did a lot to lower his trade and asset value himself. He still has upside, but now he’s even more of a gamble. I disagree that he would contribute more, in any way, than Handzus… but that we’ll just never know either way.

    By the by, it’s been fun arguing with you the last two days. Makes work seem less long.

  • cristobal

    cheers.

    Just want to see a real hockey team, not an AHL team with promise. Tired of being “sold” minor league hockey dressed in NHL uniform. By the way, Gauthier has been moved numerous times and couldn’t make the NHL roster last year. I understand that players like Giguere and even Daniel Cleary get moved around before settling in well somewhere, but Lombardi is staking his reputation on what these guys do. Whereas i’m just a blog commentor.

  • JDM

    “Lombardi is staking his reputation on what these guys do. Whereas i’m just a blog commentor.”

    How true. You could see Lombardi’s recognition of that fact at the Terry Murray press conference.

    Sadly but proudly I’m such a die hard hockey/kings fan that though I desperately want to see the playoffs and most of all a cup, I’ll be loyal to the Kings. perhaps to a fault, no matter how much they stink.

    On Gauthier, I only really remember his play from his Calgary days. I know he hasn’t enjoyed steady time like he had there in years.

    My rose colored glasses just look so good in the mirror…

  • john Strachan

    cristobal,
    Interesting to hear your comments about Tuk and the Kings being an AHL level franchise considering that Tuk never proved that he could hack it at the NHL level.

    As far as Koolaid, any fan thinking Burke was responsible for the Cup win is fooling himself. The Cup was won when Rob Niedermayer was signed because that meant Scott would join his brother to try to win a Cup. It also helped that Pronger got a sportscaster pregnant and his wife demanded to leave town. Burke took a team that had gone to the SC finals after being built by another GM, had a couple of additions of very good players due to very fortunate circumstances and has taken all the credit. THAT is some great koolaid!
    As far as Beauchemin, he was pretty horrid last season. Do you think that may have been because Scott sat out most of the year?

  • Quisp

    But to what degree ARE the Kings an AHL team? I know people like to say it in jest, but…

    Brown/Kopitar/O’Sullivan — excellent first line, and only getting better. Can’t level the AHL charge at these guys.

    ??/Handzus/Frolov — a lot hangs on Handzus’s ability to rebound. If he does, and one piece of the puzzle drops in (Purcell? Parse? someone yet to be signed?), this is not just a good second line, but a great one. Many, many teams have the “who is our sixth top-six guy going to be” problem. I think I’m safe in assuming Handzus will be BETTER than last year, so the second line improves from last year by definition.

    So far, that’s two lines, both of which it’s reasonable to assume will be better than last year.

    Third and fourth lines: instead of Willsie, Zeiler, and Thornton, we have Stoll, Boyle, Moulson, Ellis, Richardson and Clune. And of course Ivanans, Calder and Armstrong. Stoll, Calder and Armstrong are veterans, so there’s definitely no “AHL” charge to level there. Ellis is a better Zeiler. Boyle and Moulson have both shown (I would say) more than a little promise at the NHL level. I don’t see any reason why these guys — especially with a full season of Boyle and Moulson — shouldn’t produce a lot more than last year’s group of third/fourth liners.

    Okay, defense:

    Johnson is not a rookie anymore. Preissing is a vet. Harrold is a kid, but a promising one (I think). Gauthier is a legitimate NHL 6th or 7th D at LEAST (his season in the minors notwithstanding). Doughty will be a rookie, but the inclusion of the #2 overall pick hardly is cause to label a team “AHL” caliber. Greene is a vet. And that leaves the mystery d man, a ufa signing? in which case, not AHL-ish…another rookie? Martinez? Unlikely, but could happen I guess.

    And in goal the only potential AHL-er you’re likely to see this year (I hope) is Bernier, who is only the King’s #1 prospect.

    I really think when people say this about the Kings what they’re really saying is they don’t know any of their names yet and they aren’t full of aging has-beens. TO which I say, thank the hockey gods. That’s not drinking the kool-aid. I’ve been following the Kings for several decades, and I’ve always tried to pay attention to their prospects, who’s coming up and when they’re expected and so on. Storr, Sydor, etc… There just seems to be exponentially more potentially great prospects now than at any time in my memory.

    I am much more looking forward seeing this team — even if they end up 30th again — than I have been most Kings teams including the Gretzky years. I’d much rather watch these kids grow up than watch kurri and mcsorley, or krystch or stumpel, ferraro, olchyk (sp!), stevens, etc. etc. for once WE can be the team that gets them when they’re young and great, and the other teams can sign them when they’re old and looking for one last cup (that’s after the Kings Cup Dynasty of 2011-2015 of course).

  • Duckhunter

    Damn Quisp, I like the way you ran that down. You need to stop that though, your getting me all fired up and it’s only July.

    That’s what I really like about this site, the passion. We don’t all always agree, but the passion and beliefs are real and genuine,how can you argue with that. No band-wagon fans here and thats refreshing. I’ve learned more here in the last few months than I have in years. After listening to everyones knowledge, I sometimes question my own fanhood. I’ve literally watched every game for about the last 10 years, but I never watched the draft or new who our top prospects were. Now after reading all these post from you complete fans, I feel like I’m on top of my game now. Thanks to you all.

    JDM, I really like that word you used earlier in your post-amalgamation. Thats my new word. With your permission to barrow it, I’m going to use that word any time plausible

    Go Kings!

  • cristobal

    just when i think i’m out, quisp pulls me back in…..
    i’ll deal with the end of your post first when you say you can’t remember so many good prospects. What were Brown, Kopitar, Frolov, Huet, Corvo, Boyle; but prospects? You first point out that the top line is A level. And you’re absolutely correct. The problem is that beyond Stoll and Frolov the rest all ARE ahl’ers. I love Derek Armstrong to death, but look at his career, the majority is in the ahl.
    If you don’t remember repeatedly watching draft day and dreaming the guys drafted would come in and make their mark, you are probably not going to understand where i’m coming from. But if you remember waiting for Pavel Rosa, Aki Berg, Mathieu Biron, Matt Zultek, Roman Vopat, Kris Kontos, Robert Lang to come take the kings to the promised land, you will.
    One bit to think on….where would the kings be without Kopitar?

  • Quisp

    re: Pavel Rosa, Aki Berg, Mathieu Biron, Matt Zultek, Roman Vopat, Kris Kontos, Robert Lang …

    Oh how I remember every one of those guys. My memory of them, though, is there was usually only one or two of them to dream about at any one time. You are of course right about Brown et al having been prospects; but again, I didn’t have the experience of hoping for all of them at the same time.

    Aki Berg is a good example of someone who was rushed and shouldn’t have been (in my opinion). Interesting to reflect on given our current situation.

    Robert Lang I have a huge soft spot for. I f****ing love RObert Lang. The fact that Melrose would play him only for thirty seconds every game pissed me off to no end. I have rooted for him wherever he has landed. And to me his name is still pronounced Lawh-ng.

    Yes, where would the Kings be without Kopitar… But, you know, where would the Wings be without Lidstrom? The Sharks without THornton? etc… every team is worse and in many cases more or less screwed without their star player.

  • Quisp

    on another topic, I see Glen Murray and the Sens may be flirting with each other. The article (TSN maybe?) said that it could get done for around a million for one season. Would DL offer a little more to get him back in LA? Now, CLEARLY Murray would rather have a chance at a cup, etc., and CLEARLY I’m negotiating with myself here, but it seems to me it’s at least plausible that he could be enticed back here for a little more cash ($2MM plus incentives, is what I would offer in my own fantasy Kings where I am in charge). Especially if it occurs to Glen Murray that he might score a lot of points skating with Handzus and Frolov, and might do better outside of the hockey microscope/pressure-cooker in OTT, and might thrive in a place where expectations are low and potential is great, as opposed to a place where expectations are high on a team where if you don’t make it to the conference finals you suck.

    I wasn’t the biggest Murray fan when he was here the first time, only because I didn’t love him as “the future.” But as a guy who can still score 30 goals, who can mentor (etc.), and who can take some of the pressure off the kids…I would be happy to see it.

  • Jet

    Again cristobal, you are neglecting the type of player being drafted now and that is the difference with this rebuild. You can continue to try to convince yourself that this is the same old half butt rebuilding project that we seem to have undertaken twice a decade for the past 40 years or you can look at the difference in the qualities of the players we have drafted the past 3 years. Please review a few scouting reports, even purchase a couple if you do not believe the koolaid media hype. Look for leadership and passion.

    Even your favorite, Belanger was lucky to make it. He had top 40 ability, and I believe we got him with the 100th pick. His attitude was terrible. I heard that he stayed out all night on a game day when he was with Rimouski. This type of player would never be drafted by the Kings now. But, at least he had some passion; the other picks you mentioned were picked on skill-level only. Then it was hope and pray they make it.
    .
    Next, a team will go to the bottom when taking on a complete rebuild. This is what we expected. Will we be at the bottom for a couple of years? Yes, again this is expected.
    Also, have we traded some skill for toughness? Absolutely, this is a necessity when you have a young team. Opponents will run the rookies the entire game, as they should, if allowed to.

    Finally, a quick bit of history to help explain what I believe to be DLs thought process. Up to 25 years ago, visiting teams would come to LA as a mid-season vacation. Many teams would even go into Palm Springs to relax/party the day before the game. It was actually, a great place to get autographs, but I digress. That is how pathetic/soft the Kings were. I can assure you that Murray and Lombardi remember those days (as do Burke/Carlyle, thus the smashmouth attitude). I can still remember the Jets Carlyle coming off the ice after warm ups with bloodshot eyes, but he could still get 3 or 4 shoots in the game and would be a mean SOB for a little guy. Sorry, another tangent.
    Second, as you know Lombardi comes from Philly and they seem to have cap limit issues every year. Therefore, it is a justifiable fear Dean has when he says he is worried about signing the young players.

    This is not a personal attack on you, but I figure you may one of those guys who go to every possible website bashing Lombardi at every opportunity (my apologies if Im wrong). I am just tired of the half way rebuilds, where the GM is pressured into a quick fix, just to make a bottom playoff spot for a couple of years. Let DL build a team that will be around for a while. Three more years is not a long time, thirty is.

  • JDM

    Always loved Muzz.

  • Daniel

    “re: Pavel Rosa, Aki Berg, Mathieu Biron, Matt Zultek, Roman Vopat, Kris Kontos, Robert Lang …”

    This is exactly the reason Kings fans are so optimistic these days. Look at the list above. That is what we had to look forward to. Storr, too. It’s depressing.

    Now – well, we all know who we have. But the biggest difference now is that fact that the guys we have not only possess great physical skills but great leadership skills. Who among our past prospects were true leaders? Blake was captain but I think the jury is out on whether or not he was a true leader. Besides Lang, Vis and Blake, which other prospects were selected to their countries respective Olympic teams? That’s rather telling, isn’t it? Even our best – Luc – never got called to play on Team Canada.

    Anyone else excited to see who on the Kings make the games in Vancouver or Sochi? Brown, Johnson (C), POS, Zatkoff suiting up for Team USA, Doughty (C), Bernier, Hickey, (Tavares?) for Team Canada? Moller (C) for the Three Crowns?

    So, Cristobal, I feel your pain. Let’s think positive here.

    P.S. re: Tukonen, I watched that draft and everyone – TSN, ESPN, etc. thought that pick was a slam-dunk for the Kings (I was hoping for Drew Stafford, but whatevs.) TSN even had him rated #5 overall. So, to say that he has not lived up to expectations 4 years later is not a stretch. Some things just don’t work out. DL made a wise move.

  • DellaNooch

    Cristobal –
    Selanne – Great player, Very exciting to watch, he’s a Duck, I don’t root for the Ducks, but if he signs with one of 29 other teams, I’ll root for him, that’s being a sports fan.

    As for Brian Burke’s great moves:
    You’re right, he scored on Kunitz, how’s Bobby Ryan doing?
    Penner was a good pick up, too bad he was lost to free agency.
    Selanne was a big risk and he paid off, Bertuzzi bombed
    Giguere is a solid starter, but they lost their other goaltender to PHX for nothing, now he’s a starter there, great move.
    Getzlaf or Kopitar, pick one
    Perry or Sully, pick one
    Beachmin was a good pick up, Where is Schneider going?
    Who’s their Hickey, Doughty, Teubert, Boyle, Purcell, Moller, Voinev…?
    Perhaps they have players well on their way, who’s in the farm system? Will this team stay good?
    I’ll tell you one thing in common with the Ducks and the Kings next year, neither will win the Stanley Cup.

    I was wrong about Gleason, he’s not a journeyman, and perhaps in his many seasons he has accomplished more than JMFJ has in one, but JMFJ has serious talent and Crawford had him on a leash last year to keep us from seeing all of it. There is no denying his skating abilties, rocket of a slapper, and heart (ie his gaming changing dive in the Chicago game. These aren’t statistics, I’ve watched enough of both of them to tell who is better…Tell me this, would you trade JMFJ straight up for Gleason right now? If not, case closed, we agree. If not, then we know who is “off their rocker”

    Your posts do confuse me though, you seem to think players that have clearly demostrated they can succeed at the AHL level enough to earn a spot in the NHL (Armstrong) should make way for a guy who has not proved himself at the AHL level? If we were talking about goaltenders, I might agree we should give the guy a shot (look at Ersberg’s and Burke’s numbers and performances the seasons they played both levels) I don’t understand your logic on this one.

    You are correct that I’m basing my decision on Tukenon on 5 NHL games because I have not watched him at the AHL level, I can only rely on the expert opinions that I hear and statistics. With that said, I can only see you basing your decision on his draft position and what he did prior to the AHL. How many Manchester games have you watched and seen performances that warrent an NHL shot? Why are you so high on this guy? I really can’t see a single reason to play him? Your comment about playing him 60-80 games because we’re not a playoff team is not a good one. What message are you sending to the rest of the team? “Hey guys, you’re a bunch of losers so we’re going to play a big time underacheiver because it doesn’t matter if we win?” If you want to drive out our best young guys, that’s a way to do it!

    I can only gather that you love Dave Taylor and root for his guys, that’s about it. I have nothing against DT, I think he did a fine job as a GM in a very difficult situation. He made very good free agent signings but wasn’t great at drafting until the very end (Brown, Kopi, Boyle,Cammi,Fro and to an extent Bernier).
    DT is gone, DL has the type of control to build a team that DT never had, so there is no use crying over spilled milk. I don’t agree with all of DL’s moves but this one seems fine to me, we trade one long shot prospect for another, that’s about it.

    As for Gauthier, there has been no clear indication if he will be in the NHL or AHL, don’t try to church that one up.

  • cristobal

    Dellanooch

    Not rooting for Selanne is being a Kings fan, not a sports fan.

    Who cares about Bobby Ryan when you have Chris Kunitz.
    Penner was more than just a good pick-up (by Murray?) he at the very least brought Anaheim 1 cup and how many 1st round picks?
    Cloutier, McCauley, Handzus (same pay as Bertuzzi, but for 4 years), Klemm have worked out real well.
    The ducks had 2 goaltenders able to start, the Kings played 7? last year?
    Kopitar of course is the choice, but what does that have to do with Lombardi?
    Perry without even thinking about it over O’Sullivan.
    What does Schneider have to do with Beauchemin? But Schneider, for all we know, might end up back here.
    That one about: “where is their Hickey, Teubert, Doughty….etc?” Are you kidding? Where is LA’s cup? Besides, they are currently a playoff team with guys like Pronger, Rob and Scott Stevens, Teemu Selanne, Cory Perry….remember?
    Do you think Detroit, San Jose, Anaheim and Calgary are worried about their farm systems? Do you realize that when Dallas was desperate to win a cup they actually traded Jerome Iginla for Joe Nieuwendyk? They were in the Western Conference finals last year. Its the NHL club that matters.
    I wonder how much money we could wager on one of these teams winning the cup?
    How about 1 million dollars? If the Kings win it, I pay you. If Anaheim wins, you pay me. Deal?

    I wouldn’t trade Johnson for Gleason straight-up right now. No. (I didn’t see Gleason play much last year) But I had to think about it, if only for a split second. I need more from JJ this year though, especially leadership.

    I referred to Armstrong because of another post. I said I love Armstrong and don’t care if he’s twice as slow this year, I want him on my team. I WOULD have played Tukonen over Hanzus, Calder, Zeiler and Guliano, Nagy, and at times Ivanans, to see what Tukonen was made of. I never saw a Manchester game myself, and I also don’t know if he was being told to just dump-and-chase.

    About Taylor, yes I do miss him. I think he did draft some duds, but he did some overwhelmingly genius things. He got Kopitar with the 11th overall. That is outstanding. Kopitar is perhaps 4th in this league in pure talent. He is in ways better than the 3 in front of him in certain aspects, but to get this guy at 11th was genius, pure and simple. I believe Taylor, by the time he drafted Kopitar, had his scouts in place and was one of the best over those years at spotting talent.

    I guess this gets down to the nutshell the problem I have with Lombardi. Taylor never threw away seasons to get higher draft picks. Tavares next year may be the best thing since Mario Lemieux, but he may also be the next Patrik Stefan. To me, Lombardi does not seem to be just stripping it down, he’s crippling the team AND his star player: Kopitar. You say Lombardi has more control than Taylor had, but I think he’s out of control.

    Finally, I was pointing out to quisp that Gauthier didn’t play in the NHL last year because quisp was counting him amongst a team he didn’t consider “AHL quality”.

  • Jimmy Crack Corn

    Re bust prospects lest we not forget Guy Leveque, Yannick Lehoux, Robb Stauber, Scott Barney, Tom ika, Rene Chapdelaine, Jared Aulin (from Rob Blake trade)

  • JDM

    From what I’ve heard, Gauthier would have made the team in skill, but was kept in the AHL to help stay under the cap.. There could be zero truth to this, but like I said, I did read it a few places when we picked him up.

  • 28 KINGS

    Tukonen had 1st rounder elitist attitude. Just because your drafted in the first round doesn’t mean you deserve an automatic shot in the NHL.The dude couldn’t even cut it in the AHL. It’s because he WAS a 1st rounder that seem to peeve so many people. Had he been a 3rd/4th rnd pick there wouldn’t be 100+ post about him.

    As far as Taylor goes his “just good enough to make the playoffs” mantra was getting old. Either we’d just squeak in or miss out and finish 9th or 10th, aka the black hole. Taylor may have never thrown away a season to get a better draft pick, but he sure threw away a few seasons by not improving on the team success when we had it, especially letting good FA’s walk , and NOT GETTING A NUMBER 1 GOALIE.

  • yesitscal

    Cristobal, I wonder if you remember a young player two decades ago who had all kinds of talent and who they brought up to play on Gretzky’s line? his name was Danny Gratton. The kid just didn’t have it. There was no passion to his game, no desire, and he flopped. He wound up going to England and lighting it up for what was probably a less than ECHL-level team there and bragged about how he played with Wayne in L.A. Just because you’re young and somebody puts the “potential” label on you doesn’t mean anything.

    As for people bringing up Pavel Rosa, Aki Berg, Mathieu Biron, Matt Zultek, Roman Vopat, Kris Kontos, Robert Lang, etc., every single hockey fan in every single city can lament the busts that were drafted. It comes with the territory. Robert Lang moved on to have quite a respectable career in the NHL.

  • Anonymous

    The trade was Gauthier and a 2nd for two low-to-very-low-level prospects. Hersley and Lukacevic alone were not worth a 2nd.

    Gauthier was a decent player at one time. This ‘trade’ sets his current value at less than zero, and was a thinly-disguised purchase of a 2nd in exchange for taking on Gauthier’s contract. It also helps Deano’s old friends in Philly while helping AEG get to the cap floor.

    Coming soon: The true story of When The Kings Won The Cup….

  • John Strachan

    Cristobal,

    Do you believe that DT was a genius because 7 or 8 other NHL GMs were stupid? Not good logic. It’s not as if DT discovered a player ranked 100th and took a chance – it’s more like the other GM’s were too afraid to draft a Slovenian player. Then again, maybe you think he was a genius because Burke had the #2 pick and went for Ryan …

    DT wasn’t so bad at drafting, he just never built much of an organization to develop those draft picks. Ironically, it you want to blame someone for Tukonen’s move to Dallas, or the low return, maybe Won should look at the guy that drafted him and couldn’t turn him into an NHL player after 3 years in the organization.

  • cristobal

    yesitscal – you don’t know what is going on here. you just proved my point, basically. How many time has there been “prospects” that just never worked. Tukonen may have been one, but so may be Bernier, Hickey, T. Lewis, Voijnov, Teubert, even Doughty. Most of the people here are already saying these players are stars.

  • cristobal

    jimmycrackcorn

    Spot on. the list is long. Lehoux, ouch. Aulin, what a flop. How about Papineau, or Kuznetsov, or Mark Fitzpatrick. And can you believe – Tom Glavine…..

  • cristobal

    Ann nonimous

    We’re not debating what Lombardi gave up for Gauthier. If you read what has been said the problem is the Kings selling a minor league team as NHL quality. Again you prove my point that there is absolutely no interest in Gauthier. He is comparable to a free agent signee and he’s making A LOT. Good to see that the Kings are eager to help out a team that was in the conference finals last year when the kings are going struggle passing out of their own end.

  • cristobal

    John Strachan

    With a name like Strachan, you shouldn’t be saying such nonsense. (Do you know who Gordon Strachan is?)
    For the millionth time….Dave Taylor was not spotless in his player movement, but if you look at what he did, especially over the last few years of drafting, he was one of the best of the time. Visnovsky, Huet, Frolov, Brown, Boyle, Cammalleri, Kopitar, Corvo. Any GM would love to have those names on the list of players he drafted. He didn’t need top 3 overall to be able to get them, either. Hell, even George Parros was a good pick at 222nd overall. Besides these great draft picks, he was able to bring in Palffy, Allison, Miller, Deadmarsh, Schneider, Potvin, Demitra, Conroy, and Gleason through trade and free-agency.

  • yesitscal

    Cristobal, here are just a few of the players that the genius, Dave Taylor, drafted in the ssame years as the imoortals you give him credit for. I only picked a few of the Kings top picks because the list of flops is too long. Actually, I like Dave Taylor, but since you think he was such a good finder of talent, I’ve given him the nickname of genius.

    Andrei Shefer
    Jason Crain
    Yanick Lehoux
    Jens Karlsson
    Dave Steckel
    Denis Grebeshkov
    Sergei Anshakov
    Dany Roussin

    Did your name used to be Anthony?

  • Quisp

    Cristobal said, “How many time has there been ‘prospects’ that just never worked. Tukonen may have been one, but so may be Bernier, Hickey, T. Lewis, Voijnov, Teubert, even Doughty. Most of the people here are already saying these players are stars.”

    Of course the list of busts is long. And it’s fun/painful to go back over the people you could have drafted, the people you shouldn’t have drafted, the busts, the late round Hall of Famers, etc… (p.s. the Legends of Hockey blog had a great post on what happened to the various picks LA gave up in the Gretzky deal — short version, EDM squandered the picks on busts, but dig a little deeper and you see they COULD have drafted Nick Lidstrom and several other franchise players…oh well).

    regarding the Kings prospects you mentioned, since only Bernier has ever played a game in the NHL, of course your point is well-taken. Law of averages, some of these guys are going to disappoint. They are not NHL stars yet. Probably ALL of them will not be. But probably some of them WILL be. Doughty and Bernier are potential franchise players. ONe of them reaching their potential would be an insanely good thing. Teubert will be Teubert, he’s not going to get shorter or nicer. Will he become a Pronger/Pheneuf/Chara level guy? Who knows. But he will at worst be a big mean slab of granite in three years. Hickey? Yes, he’s in middle school and he’s small, but I like him. Will he turn into Paul Coffey with Lidstrom’s leadership skills? If so, DL will get himself a statue in front of Staples or that building in Kansas City, and I will help pay for it. But what if he’s only solid top-four material, but not stellar? That’s probably a pretty good thing, too. Lewis? Projects to a solid third line player at least. I get the feeling he’s more of a Belanger, not a Jan Vopat. Even at the lower range of his potential, he’ll be around in the league for awhile (or that’s the impression I get).

    Of course, there’s a long way to go before the jury comes in on these guys. But, come on, what do we have to look forward to? All we can do is make our little depth charts (mine is in Excel) and dream. Since I’ve been making that little chart for thirty years, I can only say that I feel better about this group than about any other “reserve list” (to use DL’s term) since before Gretzky.

    I don’t think it’s crazy to think that Doughty, Moulson, Purcell, Boyle and Bernier could make the big club this season. In fact, I think it’s likely that all but one of them will make it (Bernier being the wild card, and I think he’s the best of the lot.)

    With that team, I think it’s possible we don’t have as bad a season as everyone suggests we’re going to. In any case, it’s almost August. We’ll soon see….

  • cristobal

    quisp

    I know exactly where you’re coming from with the excitement to see a young star develop.

    Were you not as excited about Brown, Cammalleri, Kopitar, and Visnovsky?

  • Quisp

    Brown, yes.
    Cammy, yes-minus. He always rubbed me the wrong way. I liked him when he was leading the league in scoring.
    Kopitar, yes-plus.
    Lubo, no I was never excited about him. I liked him though. As a prospect, he sort of snuck up on me.

  • Anonymous

    An entry from the Febraury 07 archive- “For the record, and since I didn’t get to squeeze it into last night’s story, Tukonen played six minutes, 59 seconds. He started the game up top with Kopitar and Brown…”

  • tainted

    Love the posts here.
    Love the potential lines suggested.
    Love the Big Balls Lombardi comment.

  • cristobal

    Anonymous – If you’ve ever played hockey you know that 7 minutes of ice time is nothing. And those 7 minutes of ice-time were under Crawford. Are you implying that Kopitar and Brown also played only 7 minutes?

  • JDM

    Haha… come on cristobal. You’ve been making the two arguments this whole time that Tukonen needed to get MORE ICE TIME and not PLAY WITH 4th LINERS.

    Well, anonymous just proved the second part wrong, as he played some time with the two best players on the team. Sure, it’s still only seven minutes, but when you have said “What have the Kings ever shown Tukonen?”, well, they showed Tukonen what’s it like playing with the two best players on the team. You constantly also pointed out that Brown got to play with Allison and Palffy. He wasn’t a regular with them, but he got some time with them. So did Tuks. That’s all.

  • cristobal

    Listen JDM

    How can you compare that to Dustin Brown. He played 31 games at the age of 18, and had a total of 5 points. Give me a break.

    Do you or anonymous play hockey? Do you know what its like to get 7 minutes of ice time? And, I don’t remember the game, but sometimes players leave the ice the second the puck is dropped.

    How would you feel if your job gave you 7 minutes to get up to speed when you were first hired?

  • JDM

    I wish I played hockey… can’t skate to well, but I’ve tried. I’ve been a fan long enough to know that 7 minutes may not be enough to do anything significant, but even 30 seconds is enough to show you’ve got heart. Why can’t you accept that Brown got those 31 games because he constantly showed improvement but more importantly he demonstrated with every shift that he had a fire in his belly, whereas Tukonen just looked like he had indigestion.

  • cristobal

    You’ll never catch me saying anything bad about Brown. I would only say Tukonen looked like a ghost out there, cuz i never saw him. By the way JDM, you’re ok in my book. Fun to argue with, but never personal.

    I hope the hopeful are correct about the youth movement. If Teubert and Doughty can really become great players, it will be great to see. I also hope Tukonen finds a “happy place” and a spot in the NHL.

  • yesitscal

    Very few rookie forwards automatically get fifteen or twenty minutes of ice time a game. You have to earn your time. Maybe you come from an environment of entitlement, but in the real world you have to work for what you get, and he just didn’t work hard enough. What’s so hard to understand about that?

  • kevin e.

    cristobal: “That one about: “where is their Hickey, Teubert, Doughty….etc?” Are you kidding? Where is LA’s cup? Besides, they are currently a playoff team with guys like Pronger, Rob and Scott Stevens, Teemu Selanne, Cory Perry….remember?”

    Rob and Scott Stevens? When did Scott Stevens come out of retirement? They need to dump some more players to get under the cap. Rob Stevens is a mystery to me. Is he the acoustic singer from myspace or the formally obese guy from thintuition? Either one, I wouldn’t be bragging about him.

  • cristobal

    Kevin E – Did you drop some E before you wrote that? Because I don’t have a clue where you came up with that stuff. Go back and read the posts I made, maybe you were reading what someone else was saying to me.

  • kevin e.

    re-read your long post responding to dellanooch. I just cut and paste what you said. I’m just taking a friendly jab at you. I know what you meant.

  • cristobal

    Kevin E – wow, i didn’t realize i had done that….had to go back and check. I think i was on the M when that happened. cheers….

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