Salary-cap space

Great Math Rich.
We just have figure out which sorry ass D-Mam DL will acquire to put us over the minimum cap requirement.
Lets try Darius Kasparitus.

Rich...

I think Brown makes 2.5 next year... not 3.2.

Regardless, comparing the Jeff Finger contract with Browns' is incredible. Yes, we got a great deal on Brown. But, how can Dean pay Sully less than Brown with Finger's contract out there...

Does that make sense? I tend not to.

Thanks
Aaron

Oh boy, now you have gone and done it. The debate of who will make the roster begins.

No Teubert or Simmonds or Lewis.

How could you. just kidding your lineup is as reasonable as any other one this early in the summer.

Why would Doughty have a big cap number? wouldn't he have the usual entry level contract?

Rich, I think you have this year's salaries (cash budget) and not the cap hits. this is what I have and had posted on hfboards. These numbers are from nhlscap.com. I didn't put Hickey in the mix because I really think he'd have a tough time making the team, unless DL comes up empty for another D-Man, but if so, he would add $1,345,833 to the cap.

Players ------------------- Cap Hit
HANDZUS, MICHAL ----- C - 4,000,000
BROWN, DUSTIN ------- L - 3,175,000
FROLOV, ALEXANDER --- L - 2,900,000
CALDER, KYLE -------- L - 2,700,000
ARMSTRONG, DEREK ---- C - 1,500,000
PURCELL, EDWARD ----- R - 1,350,000
KOPITAR, ANZE ------- C --- 955,867
BOYLE, BRIAN -------- C --- 835,000
ZEILER, JOHN -------- R --- 543,750
IVANANS, RAITIS ----- L --- 475,000
ELLIS, MATT --------- L --- 475,000
PREISSING, TOM ------ D - 2,750,000
JOHNSON, JACK ------- D - 2,150,000
GAUTHIER, DENIS ----- D - 2,100,000
GREENE, MATT -------- D - 1,150,000
LABARBERA, JASON ---- G --- 825,000

Buyouts ------------------- Cap Hit
CLOUTIER, DAN ------- G - 1,030,000
MCCAULEY, ALAN ------ L --- 667,000

Current Est. Total ----- 29,581,617

RFA’s ---------------- Last Cap Hit
STOLL, JARRET ------- C - 2,200,000
O'SULLIVAN, PATRICK - C --- 850,800
GAUTHIER, GABE ------ L --- 650,000
RICHARDSON, BRAD ---- R --- 558,333
MOULSON, MATT ------- L --- 477,500
PISKULA, JOE -------- D - 1,125,000
HARROLD, PETER ------ D --- 500,000
ERSBERG, ERIK ------- G --- 750,000

Meh...who cares about the salary cap floor anymore.

Moller said it all already....you have to have a winning attitude to win. By not helping out the re-build effort with a little free agency help the losing attitude will continue.

Just wasting another one of the 7 years we have these guys for.

Team has holes...

Even with your reduced cap number (hit), which you are correct by the way,

If my math is correct (which is not normally right), that's 36,693,250...between Doughty (who will most likely make the team) and O'Sullivan's pay increase...we are fine.

O'Sullivan is going to get Brown type of money, if not a little bit more based on the current numbers being thrown around the league, and Doughty will get Jack Johnson money...we will end up somewhere around 42-43 million.

Somebody needs to forward this info to XM 204, they were having a field day today pondering over how DL was gonna do it.

thanks for laying it out for us Rich. maybe now people will stop freaking out and show some sanity so kings fans don't look like knuckleheads. i'm glad he didn't sign anyone big. with this upcoming year sitting around 40 million, whats it gonna look like the following season when more of these youngsters will be due for a raise.

It's called patience folks, this isn't the kings year to win. its a year to build - with a young team (and hopefully do some winning at the same time).

Rich,

Under your scenario 24 people make the roster. I think that is a little over the limit.

bruce...Cloutier and McCauley are buyouts and don't count as roster spots.

Aaron, it doesn't matter what Brown makes next season, his cap hit every year equals $3,175,000 for the remainder of his contract. A HUGE steal when you look at what some players got this summer. I mean, really, Brown at that price or Avery at $4,000,000 a season. Which one do you take? Which one does 29 other GM's take?
Finger's contract was a big time joke from the Leafs. Every GM, except for Fletcher, in the league is scratching there heads at that one. A panic move, by yet another Leafs GM.
Rich, nice job. They'll hit the cap floor easily.

Holy cow! Looking at that list really emphasizes just how young this team is.

I think they should reclassify Armstrong's salary as baby sitting fees...

Ironically, doesn't this mean if Cloutier is able to get on the Long-term injury list, that he woudl actually help the Kings make the salary floor,

It seems like a lot of folks either are drinking the Kool-Aid on one side and totally buy into the youth movement or are out for blood on the other hand PO'd that the Kings didn't bring in Orpik, Hossa and Morrison (as a ridiculous example). I think that the middle is where I hope we end up come Sept. The youth movement appears to be bringing in some solid players. I'm excited to see what Boyle and Purcell can do (hoping Boyle steps up enough to make Handzus a really solid 3rd line center instead of a scoring deficient 2nd line center) and like that we signed some impressive sounding D prospects. It also makes sense that we can't commit big money over long contracts or we'll be in trouble when Kopi et al are up for new contracts. But with Stuart and Blake both gone from what was already a questionable D last year, I sure would like to see some "bridge" D players to give the new D prospects time to develop. We have plenty of cap space to bring in at least one decent D for one or two years so we don't have a totally green blue line corps. Hopefully that will still happen or we'll be able to trade for one. As over the hill as i had thought Klemm was, I thought the team D was visibly better when he was with the team, perhaps because his dedication in our zone was infectious. And I hope we have a couple guys in Manchester to show the youngsters how to play that kind of game night after night.

Yes, if the NHL was to void Cloutier's buyout, his salary-cap number would become $3.1 million instead of $1.033 million.

But if Cloutier is put on LTIR I thought that $3.1 million is payed by insurance like what happened with Allison when he was concussed and had the knee injury. Wouldn't he have to be on the roster and sitting on the bench or scratched every game to have his salary count towards the cap?

LTIR is the term used to give a team cap relief if the replacement player for the "injured player" pushes the team over the top of the salary cap. The Kings are in no danger of that happening. Cloutier, if he can convince the Arbitrator he's hurt and can't play, would simply sit on the bench and be on the IL all season. The Kings could certainly pass him through waivers again and get him to Manchester where he can sit. The benefit for the Kings is he wouldn't affect their cap after this season if the buyout is nullified. The Kings of course know that and they still don't wanna pay him. :)

What about Matt Ellis?

The Kings would get insurance relief on the LTI, in terms of actual salary, but the cap hit would remain until they were in danger of going over. Clearly, the Kings won't be in danger of that.

I counted again, Cloutier and McCauly would equal 26. What is the roster limit for the cap.

Thanks for the clarification. Didn't know it was only an issue of going over the cap. I wonder if the insurance relief shoots up the premiums significantly, which I imagine would be worse in AEG eyes than just paying him 1 mill for two seasons and yet another reason besides his infectious nature to buy him out and not just keep him in Manchester again.

I really hope that this thread puts peoples worries to rest about not hitting the cap floor. People are so manic in their panic. I almost get the sense some of you are geniunely worried that DL wouldn't mind the league not allowing the Kings to play this season, or that the season will start with no head coach.

Seriously, you may not agree with how DL runs the team but he's not a mental defective.

Well, Steve Bernier signed a $2.5 offer sheet by the Blues, which the Canucks matched.

Between him and Stajan ($3.5), who was also RFA, it seems like market value for O'Sullivan, WERE he to sign an offer sheet could easily be close to $4 mill. Stajan and Bernier have been NHL'ers an extra season or two, but haven't even broken the 40-point mark in a season.

Maybe the fact that O'Sullivan was on a top line for most of his points makes his value even out with Stajan and Bernier's a little because I believe they never really played top line minutes.
But still -
Bernier, (2 teams) 76 games, 32 points, -1, $2.5 million;
Stajan, 82 games, 33 points, -11, $3.5
O'Sullivan, 82 games, 53 points, -8, seams like $3.7-4 million to me.

I'm hoping we see a 5-6 year, back loaded contract for O'Sullivan that has him making 4-5 million in 3 years, but evens out to ~3.3-3.5 cap hit per year.

Holly cow Handz-do-nothing-for-us is the highest paid player on our team. No wonder DL isn't making any moves. He spent the budget for last year and this year on a 3rd line center at best.
I also see why Labarb is a main stay, he's under a million.
Once we start paying for our young players, the payroll is going to shoot up fast.

How are some people listing Gabe Gauthier, Zeiler, and Piskula? Are they seriously in contention to make the team?

Here is my listing. I think its how the team is most likely to look.

Forwards
1. Michal Handzus 4,000,000
2. Dustin Brown 3,175,000
3. Alex Frolov 2,900,000
4. Kyle Calder 2,750,000
5. Derek Armstrong 1,500,000
6. Teddy Purcell 1,350,000
7. Anze Kopitar 955,867
8. Brian Boyle 835,000
9. Raitis Ivanans 600,000
10. Matt Ellis 475,000
11. Brad Richardson ###
12. Jarret Stoll ###
13. Patrick O'Sullivan ###
14. Matt Moulson ###
18,540,867

Defensemen
1. Tom Preissing 2,750,000
2. Jack Johnson 2,150,000
3. Denis Gauthier 2,100,000
4. Matt Greene 1,150,000
5. Peter Harrold ###
6. Drew Doughty ###
7. ??? ###
8,150,000

Goalies/Buyouts
1. Jason LaBarbera 825,000
2. Erik Ersberg ###
Dan Cloutier 1,033,333
Alyn McCauley 666,667
2,525,000

Total: 29,215,867.

The leaves 8 contracts to give out (including 1 free agent defenseman) and $11,484,133 needed to reach the cap floor.

Also, its possible that only one of Ellis/Richardson will make the team, since they both have serve the same role. If that's the case, a free agent forward will have to be signed.

I'm kind of hoping for a Trevor Lewis, Scott Parse, Alec Martinez surge. Martinez's name obviously has been mentioned a bit lately, but Lewis and Parse have become (unless I'm missing something) all but forgotten, yet are still highly ranked prospects per Hockey's Future, especially Lewis, whose evaluation says he's "talented enough to be one of the best third line forwards in the NHL" (quoting from memory so I might be off a word or two).

Anyway, I'd be happy to see Lewis make it in lieu of Armstrong.

So based on what im gathering here if the season were to start today,the team could look like...

Brown Kopi Sully
Calder Stoll Fro
Boyle Zues Purcell
Moulson Army Ivanans

Extras
Ellis/murray/richardson

JJ Preissing
?FA/trade? Harrold
Greene Doughty

How does that sound to all of you?

Rich and all: Those of us "freaking" out weren't freaking out about whether the Kings or DL could find a way to meet the required floor. We're freaking out over the attitude that was so brazenly displayed and many of us suspected was the case all along.

If this is going to be a "floor team" why has DL been saying for months that he wanted Blake back to be the guy that provides some stability and leadership then ? How could that $1-2 million extra to Blake really hurt if DL did land Orpik or Hainsey?

The freak out is on why DL created the drama. Just say we're going full rebuild mode, dumping veterans and salary and letting the kids carry the load. Teams in worse markets have done it and survived. We will too.

A point of correction: if Cloutier is found truly to be "injured" then the Kings buyout is nullified, so he obviously gets his full $3.1 mil - his way of sticking it to the Kings. But being on LTI (long term injury) there is NO WAY he can be sent down to Manchester. Until or unless he is healthy. "Injured" players can not be passed through waivers. Only those doing a rehabilitation stint. Cloutier wants nothing again to do with Manchester. And the Kings certainly don't want his sour attitude affecting the kids in the AHL. Cloutier will sit at home and on the 1st & 15th check his bank account online for direct deposit.

The irony is that if another (4th) doctor does find him "injured" as Cloutier claims, the question is whether the Kings will require him to attempt to train and rehab to overcome his "injury." They may force him to go to medical exams, hit the weight room, go to strength and conditioning in order to "earn" his extra $1 million. Cloutier would have to train as if he's attempting to return to the Kings NHL roster. But heck, for an extra mil (any mil) I'd be happy to hit the weight room for the Kings. Where do I report? The again, doctors could deem him unable to return this season...period. So it might become moot.

Also, re: Blake vs. Lombardi. Gotta believe that DL thought Rob's worth was less than $4 mil. Cap space or not. RB thought otherwise. They simply were not on the same page aka OTSP. DL needed time to see how his other offers would do. He thought he had RB wrapped up. RB wanted a deal done asap (and figured he'd given the Kings a hometown discount) or he'd lose the Sharks deal. Instead, he took the money and ran.

They were both coming at it from different directions.

Last add: the hypocrisy is that Cloutier asked for a buyout. He got it. Then decided to "doctor shop" to void the very buyout he requested in order to recoup an extra $1 mil. By doing so he became damaged goods to other teams that might have signed him as a backup. He demolished the very thing he desired: a fresh start with another team.

Huge surprise if Cloutier ever plays in the NHL again. His only other chance is overseas in Germany, Russia, Finland or Sweden. At his age, with a new baby, is it worth it?

JB,

Thanks for posting your thoughts. That sums up exactly my frustrations with this offseason, too!

Thanks RH, I think feilding a team with Purcell, Hickey, Boyle, Zeiler, Richardson, Harrold, Moulson and Doughty is more than a little scary. Does any one think there might be just a bit too much pressure on the youth of this team?

lakingzfan, re your lineup and lines:

"Brown Kopi Sully" - I think that's a lock

"Calder Stoll Fro" - I hope center on the second line is Handzus's to lose; Calder on left wing? That hadn't occurred to me, but it might actually not suck with Handzus in the middle. Also, ironic since Calder was traded for Handzus at one point in his career, I think.

"Boyle Zues Purcell" - I counter with Purcell/Stoll/Richardson or Calder for the so-called third line. Boyle is a center.

"Moulson Army Ivanans" - I counter with Moulson/Boyle/Ellis. Boyle and Moulson I believe did well together in Manchester and were paired together last season in LA, weren't they?

I think Ellis, Richardson and Calder will likely be called upon to fill the ring wing slots on the 3rd and 4th lines. I kind of like the idea that Calder steps it up and plays on the second unit, but that may be wishful thinking.

My own preferred wishful thinking is that one of Lewis or Parse makes a big splash in camp and plays left wing on the second line. Again, not likely, but as long as we're dreaming...

"Extras - Ellis/murray/richardson" I think Ellis and Richardson will be more than extras, and Murray will be less than one. But I think Ivanans will be one of the two extra forwards, the other "extra" depending on trades, signings or camp surprises, any one of which could bump someone down, like Ellis or RIchardson. I guess Armstrong would be my default 14th forward, although I hope (again, wishful thinking) that he is the veteran presence in Manchester. That of course depends on one of the kids outplaying him in camp.

"JJ Preissing
?FA/trade? Harrold
Greene Doughty"

I would counter with, as it stands now: Doughty/Greene, Martinez/Johnson, Gauthier/Preissing, Harrold as the 7th d. If there's a trade, I would expect it to affect Harrold and Martinez's chances. A signing like Modry could happen and would also be a safer bet than Martinez, but I would still (wishful thinking again) hope that in that case Modry would pair with Johnson and Martinez would be the 7th d, Harrold becoming the odd man out. Of course, there isn't really any way to know who among these guys is going to play well in what pairs, other than to just generally pair speedy offensive guys with more tree-like stay-at-home guys.