Pick the defensemen (for real)

(Oops, let’s try this again. The previous poll only allowed for one choice…)

Well, yesterday’s vote gave the Kings a fourth line of Handzus, Ivanans and Armstrong, which probably isn’t realistic unless Armstrong would move to the wing. More likely, it would be Ivanans, Handzus and Richardson. But it’s an interesting debate. Now, moving on to the defensemen. Who should be the six defensemen? How many young guys would you pick?

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  • guidedbyvoices

    Visnovsky and Blake…ooops.

    Preissing and Teubert.

  • anthony


    Gauthier played in the AHL last season and I hope he stays there.
    You guys are gonna hate hearing this – Thomas Hickey is gonna be bust (ala Aki Berg). Trust me on this one. DL is gonna regret not selecting Alzner.
    On the other hand, Drew Doughty is gonna be a superstar on the ice. I give DL credit for selecting him over Bogosian.

  • ReggieMoto

    There are only 5 NHL caliber defensemen (Gauthier, Greene, Harrold, JJ, Preissing). After that it’s sort of a crapshoot.

    What this truly shows is how weak the Kings still are on defense (and the previous polls show how weak the Kings still are in their bottom 6 forward lines).

    Is there anyone who truly believes this season’s team will be contenders for a playoff berth? Seriously?

  • Tompa

    What a mess… I’m pretty sure we’ll acquire another D-man or two, but if we don’t I’ll have to say:


    or whatever combination of those that work best.

  • Irish Pat

    Wow. Reality just set in for me. The defense looks promising for the future, but the present is a bit of a mess. Scratch that; it is a mess. I don’t how Terry Murray is going to pair these guys up or who will eventually make the team, but this is a real scattershot assembly of an NHL team defense as I’ve ever seen. I PRAY they prove me wrong. For real indeed Rich.

    Hey Rich, are you going to be doing 2 separate polls for both the starting and back-up goaltenders?

  • LB

    There’s no way that they’re going to start the season with just this list of Dmen. If they do, they’re in really big trouble. Most likely they will bring in another veteran or two. I just don’t see how all three of Harrold, Gauthier and Doughty can be in our top 6.

  • Captain Material

    Vishnevski anyone? Pretty good timing considering he was placed on waivers just about the same time Rich posted this poll.


  • Quisp

    In response to the general freakout over the d and also in response to the question “does anyone seriously think this team can contend for a playoff spot?” —

    Sure. I do.

    I really think people are freaking out (consciously or unconsiously) over the absence of famous, familiar names. Blake, Visnovsky, Stuart, Modry (yes, even Modry). Of those four players, only Modry had a good year last year. The others sucked for all (Lubo) or half (Blake, Stuart) of the year. These guys were not the cornerstone of anything. They were the problem.

    Now you’ve got:


    I’m assuming the Kings will add a vet (Schneider, please). If they do this, the d looks like this:

    Schneider or other vet d/Preissing
    Harrold or Martinez

    In general, I think any d corps with more than one rookie is vulnerable to attack. Therefore, the version of the Kings d with both Doughty and Martinez raises some red flags. But the version with the added vet looks solid to me.

    Of course, if you think Gauthier sucks (I like him) then you’ve got your new Modry to kick (I liked Modry too). And I think the Greene acquisition was a good one.

    I guess what I would say, to sum up my point of view on this, and why I think the Kings will finish closer to 20 than 30, is the following:

    — addition by subtraction of Blake and Lubo.
    — Gauthier and Greene are good additions. They are big and snarly.
    — Preissing was +500000 for OTT and will be good this year on a team that:
    — is coached by someone who emphasizes defense, played defense, and believes in defense first.
    — as a subset of that, Crawford and his activated D was a disaster. Just getting rid of that “exciting” plan is a step in the right direction.
    — Mark Hardy.
    — if Martinez is ready, he’s going to surprise people.
    — Drew Doughty.
    –the goaltending. I believe (hope) Bernier and Ersberg will be the goalies this year. Maybe Labs starts the season to show off his new physique, and then gets dealt at the height of his prowess. Certainly Labs will get dealt eventually and it’s just a matter of when and how. I’m betting it’s sooner rather than later. In any case, improved goaltending and improved defense and coaching that is more defensive-minded in nature will all feed off each other.

    The end result will be better defense. More wins.

    One more thing. I am also a member of the don’t respond to Anthony club. But please: “Hickey is a bust like Aki Berg??” Really, that’s just silliness. He’s at least one year if not more from being physically mature enough to play for the big team. It would be easier to take you seriously if you would refrain from making knee-jerk declarations on topics that even the experts won’t be able to parse until well into the next decade. Maybe if you were that guy who regularly plucks those late rounders for Detroit, your prognostication(s) would give me pause. But on a message board, all this “Heed My Warning!” stuff just seems goofy.

  • Captain Material

    So…Vishnevsky anyone?


    Good timing considering he was announced as being put on waivers almost exactly the same time Rich posted the poll.

  • Maverick

    Yup, looks like the Kings have to pick up Vishnevsky from waivers.

  • Quisp

    Other than getting to play the drinking game where you count how many times Bob Miller calls him Visnovsky, I don’t think Vishnevski is a good idea. Although maybe he would be good for training camp, to give Martinez someone to beat out for a spot. Then he can go play for Manchester.

  • JDM

    No no no no Visnevski. Never liked him. Sure he make huge bone crushing open ice hits… to bad every single one leaves him horribly out of position. Oh and he’s slow. And ugly.

    Brett Hedican.

    I feel like a broken record.

  • cristobal

    captain material – Vishnevsky wouldn’t be a bad guy for the Kings, but all the team currently has is defensive mean defensemen. now salei, if he were availible, would be a different story. the kings should get him, though, because some of these hulking pylons might be valueable at the trade deadline if nothing else.

  • cristobal

    quisp – i have to disagree with your premise that blake and visnovsky were the promlems. its obvious, isn’t it, that the problem is management and ownership. we’ve already seen it a thousand times. players that are ‘done’ in LA go on to win cups and win playoff series. Last year it was Stuart, Lilja, Norstrom, Sydor…do i have to go there again?
    face the facts, we’re being “sold” on the rebuild. Its not lubo’s, cammy’s, blake’s, stuart’s, modry’s, or even the horrible ufa signing’s fault. the players are not cancers, the club is. hopefully management can change that if AEG keeps out of the way, but its not looking good yet.


  • ReggieMoto

    Someone go wake Quisp up before he starts drooling on his keyboard [/good-natured ribbing]

    You have to go with what you’ve got, and right now you don’t have Schneider or any other vet. And even if Deano picks one up, his record on FA acquisitions for the team doesn’t bode well for him picking up someone who will be…um, effective in the role.

    Doughty and Martinez are not going to be helpful this season. And it doesn’t matter to me one wit whether Blake or Lubo are on the team or not. The only things that look bad to me are the facts that a) there are so few true NHL-caliber defensemen in the D-corp; and b) of those there are they’re not for the most part the highest quality.

    Bottom line: the “D” is still suspect for yet another season.

  • old time hockey

    Can I just point out the obvious and note that there’s a bunch of guys here who aren’t very good and may not get that way. Preissling is ok, but he was at least #4 at OTT last year if not 5/6 (don’t have the chart handy). He’s not going to come here and be #1 and be a stud.

    Good D men are hard to develop and even harder to purchase. I’m afraid we’re going to figure that out the hard way over the next two seasons.

  • Captain Material

    While I mostly agree with your overall sentiment, you seem to take a lot of things completely out of context quisp.

    “Last year it was Stuart, Lilja, Norstrom, Sydor…do i have to go there again?”

    Stuart signed a one year deal here, played himself into interest of other teams, and then once he was moved it was for a pretty good return (we gave up no assests to acquire him and got back a 2nd and a 4th). Then one of the best frachises in the league on many levels offers him a spot.

    Norstrom I wish we would have kept, but he lasted just over one year outside LA, yeah? And again, the return was rather solid.

    Complaining about Lilja is like complaining about not winning the lottery.

    Sydor hated it here at the end. He was a cancer. I know from person interaction with the guy. The last place he wanted to contribute to a winning team back in ’96 was LA. And his wife…don’t get me started.

    You really have to watch out for truthiness. The story you are putting out feels like it makes sense on these D men, but in reality if you look at the individual cases, there is no relation.

    The one thing where there may be with guys like Vish, Blake and Norstrom recently is the direction the team is going. If you can’t get over your own perception that team was so close to being “there” and then these moves are made, I see where you think the returns were not good or the team is being weakened. But then there’s reality. 🙂 Or at least the reality that a lot of other fans including myself see with where the team is/was and why changes needed to be made.

    I mean look at Norstrom. Is it worth more to the team to have two or three years of his solid devotion in a time period where we are not anywhere near being good enough to compete, or are a first and a second rounder more important to help the team get to a competitive level down the road (a road which they actually seem committed to following in a way they haven’t for decades). It’s a tough call to make, but if you can acknowledge where the decision is coming from instead of where you saw the team as being, hopefully it’s at least understandable.

    Based on the premise there was little broken to fix on the team, I see where you come from on these complaints. I just think it pretty obvious there was a lot broken with this team that hadn’t been addressed in literaly decades.

  • Captain Material

    Back to defensemen in general, I don’t think Vishnevsky is that wonderful (sorry for the double post), but realistically we aren’t going to have many options.

    This one comes at no current asset cost, a reasonable salary, and the guy is a servicable player. I’d rather have Bouwmeester, but realistically, I’m not sure there are going to be tons of other better options.

    Can you pass up this opertunity to fill the hole hoping other trades work out around the league such that a better option opens up?

  • cristobal

    captain material – i think you were addressing my comments and i don’t know if you were getting my points. I was really trying to point out that the condemnation of Blake and Visnovsky for last year is misplaced. People get on me about harping on management and ownership and i feel i’m just trying to counter with arguments about those harping on the players that had poor seasons. We, of course, don’t know what will happen in San Jose, Edmonton, and Calgary with blake, lubo, and cammalleri; but the constant complaints about their performance last year is looking at details rather than the whole picture. Personally, in the Stuart case, I think it was a horrible decision to trade him for the return. Norstrom, not so much, but I wish there had been more return. Mostly, its my intention to point out that there are many many many players that the fans ‘dis’ when they are on their way out, but they go on and help good teams. It all adds up, in my opinion, to a statement about this franchise, not the players. I personally love Visnovsky and hope he has 6 more great years in the NHL and gets back to being the all-star defenseman he was when this team was trying to improve the right way. I don’t know how things will work out here, but the players that have moved on have proven that they are quality NHL players.

  • yesitscal

    Gauthier has always been a six-seven defenseman, so I have to wonder if he won’t be exploited more and more by the opposition as the year goes on. Wasn’t Preissing on the third defensive pairing In Ottawa? Regardless, being where he is now his status is elevated, deservedly so or not. Greene, to me, is a big question mark because of his concussion history. Wouldn’t mind seeing the Kings pick up Vishnevsky, as he has experience and a mean streak. Right now, though, this defense is Swiss cheese at best.

  • Anonymous

    Good move trading one of your few experienced d-men. Sure Visnovsky had one bad year, but that is not a reason to get rid of him. The D will be worse this year that last year. I guess all the money they are wasting on Posh Beckham, they had to cut some of the costs in other areas, Visnovsky’s front heavy contract.

  • Anonymous

    I know Teubert is young and inexperienced, but you can’t say Martinez or Harold are a big upgrade. Give the kid a chance…

  • Quisp

    Captain Material —

    I didn’t say those things. Cristobal did.

    Cristobal —

    It’s not obvious that management is the problem. That’s just your point of view. You haven’t proved anything.

    My attitude about ownership is, owners are more alike than they are different. They’re owners. There may be great ones, I don’t know. But mostly they all same to follow the same playbook. Beyond being generally suspicious of them, I really don’t pay that much attention.

    As far as all the players people dis on their way out: I never liked Blake. He’s repeatedly -20/-30. His ass checks suck. He’s bad positionally. He’s frequently hurt. And, now, he’s old.

    Lubo, I like just fine.

    But all I was saying was, objectively, they had bad seasons last year. Let’s just say that’s management’s fault (somehow). So what? What I’m saying is, if you’re worried about the absence of those guys, it helps to look at just how good those guys were last year.

    Stuart, I also like. But he had half a bad year, a quarter of a good one (for us), and then went to Detroit.

    Re “constant complaints about their performance last year”: I’m not complaining. I’m saying, this year’s defense is better than last year’s. It’s not a complaint.

    re “the players are not cancers, the club is”: I didn’t say the players in question were cancers. Three of them I like, one I don’t. I would have liked to see Modry or Stuart back here, as I think I have said many times. I do think Blake is “done” as you put it. But that’s just me.

    But as to the “club” being a cancer…I would address that comment but I don’t think you really even believe it. I will assume you just got caught up in your own metaphor. You don’t like AEG, I get that. I don’t “like” them either. In fact, I assume they are a form of evil. But I don’t think they’re special in this regard. They’re just an ordinary, necessary evil. You don’t like DL either. I get that, too. I personally like him so far. I don’t feel like I’m being “sold” anything. I just like the idea of what he’s doing, and he seems to be consistently doing it.

    What I am saying, in this thread, is that the Kings’ defense this year will be better than the Kings’ defense last year.

    Captain Material —

    Yeah, I wouldn’t have a big problem with Vishnevski being picked up. I just wouldn’t assume he would make the team or stick around very long. My main quibble with such a signing is I don’t know if he’s an upgrade over Martinez after twenty games.

  • Quisp

    Two more points on comments that posted while I was posted mine:

    (1) is there any way that an anonymous post that references soccer or Beckham is NOT Cristobal?

    (2) re Teubert vs. Martinez or Harrold: Teubert is clearly the best of these prospects (although Harrold is not a prospect anymore); it’s not a matter of Martinez or Harrold being an upgrade; it’s that they are physically ready (in Harrold’s case) or may be ready (in Martinez’s case) to play in the NHL. Teubert, on the other hand, is still growing, which is a delightful and scary prospect to consider. But just so we’re clear, if Teubert proves himself in camp, I’m all for giving him a shot. Of course he can’t go to Manchester due to his age, so there’s that to consider (Martinez is old enough, I believe). But I have no doubt that when Teubert is ready he’s going to be READY and no one is going to be passing him over for Harrold or Martinez (though I do have hopes for Martinez as one of this year’s potential pleasant surprises).

  • cristobal

    quisp – no, the Anonymous comment was not me. i’ve never posted anything as “Anonymous.”
    also, i hope you didn’t feel i was attacking your opinions. when referring to “constant complaints” i was referring to the many different posts that kinda bash guys like blake, visnovsky, cammalleri, and modry. much like the prospects we haven’t seen yet, i’m say ‘wait’ to judge blake, cuz i feel he may win a cup this year and show that he’s still a great defenseman.
    -also, everything is opinion, its just discussion of topics, right? i’m not trying to make anyone angry, just get them to look at thing from a different perspective.
    – i believe the defense is horribly, horribly worse than last years. Hopefully, i’ll be proven wrong.
    – I do despise AEG, but not Lombardi. I have seen little to trust in Lombardi and believe he may be “playing” us AND AEG, but like Anthony, I will be thrilled if he makes me eat my words.


  • anthony

    I agree with Quisp on his prospect analysis.
    I’m very excited about Teubert. When he’s ready, he’s gonna scare the sh_t out of any forward hanging around the goalie.
    Quisp, what do you think of the other D-men in the system. Notably Bagnall and Piskula. Are they still prospects? Is time running out for them.

  • BallPointHammer

    Our problem is a lack of experienced depth. The top 6 won’t all play 82 games and Hickey and Teubert can’t be recalled if/when they go back to juniors. So, if Johnson is out and replaced by say Piskula, then Preissing is out and replaced by say Bagnall, then our defense starts to look like an expansion team. DL needs to acquire one good and two decent guys with NHL experience. Then our top 10 would be at least reasonably filled out.

  • typicaljs

    can i only pick 5 ? Where’s the option for an unaquired left handed veteran D man.

  • Captain Material

    Opps…sorry for the confusion.

  • Quisp

    Anthony –

    I don’t have any special insight into the D prospects, and of course my “evaluations” are often scuttled by wishful thinking. Also, it’s not really operable to evaluate anyone based on the five minutes or so per year I get to see these kids at camps (prospect camp, training camp), and I suppose my opinions are swayed pretty dramatically by sites like Hockey’s Future, with their evaluations and their little paragraphs on each player. Hockey’s Future ranks the Kings’ D prospects accordingly:

    1. Drew Doughty 9.0C
    2. Colten Teubert 7.5B
    3. Thomas Hickey 8.0C
    4. Peter Harrold 7.0C
    5. Vyacheslav Voinov 7.0C
    6. Alec Martinez 6.5C
    7. Joe Piskula 5.5B
    8. Andrew Campbell 6.0C
    9. Drew Bagnall 6.0C
    10. Josh Meyers 6.0C
    11. Niclas Andersen 6.0C
    12. Josh Kidd 6.0D
    13. Martin Nolet 5.0C
    14. Davis Drewiske 5.5D

    (I was wrong about PH not being a prospect anymore)

    HF’s ranking system assigns a number 1-10 and a letter, A-F. The number quantifies potential, the letter assesses the chances the player has of reaching that potential. A 10 is a once in a generation type of player. A 9 is elite. 8 is a #2 defenseman. 7 is #3-4 defensemen. 6 is #5-6 defensemen. 5 is #7 defenseman. An “A” means they are a lock to reach their potential (I’ve never seen an A). “B” means likely. “C” less likely. “D” unlikely. “F” extremely unlikely.

    Now, to answer your Bagnall and Piskula question: Hockey’s Future projects them both to be third pair or 7th d. Bagnall has a slightly bigger upside, but they’re less sure about his getting there. Piskula, with the B rating, is very stable in his projection to be a #7 D at the NHL level.

    I didn’t notice Piskula at the prospects’ camp the other week. But I repeatedly noticed Bagnall. I was looking for Teubert and kept seeing this big body and realizing it was Bagnall. Was he skilled? I have no clue. But he looked freakin’ sizeable, I’ll say that.

    Here’s what HF says about Bagnall:

    “Selected late in the 2003 entry draft, 6th Round, No. 195 overall by Dallas, Bagnall was a stand-out defenseman in the SJHL. He would later be traded to Florida, along with a draft pick, for Valeri Bure in 2004. Named as the lone defenseman finalist for the Hobey Baker after guiding the Saints to an ECACHL regular season title. The St. Lawrence team captain was also recently named the ECACHL Player of the Year and the league’s Most Outstanding Defensive Defenseman. Bagnall became just the eighth defenseman in ECACHL history to be named the league’s Player of the Year. His strong leadership and steadying presence helped to solidify a predominantly young but talented defensive corps. 2007-08: Bagnall sustained an injury early in the season and a short stint with Reading of the ECHL. He was serviceable on the blueline in Manchester, but was caught flat-footed at times, leading to some unnecessary penalties. Bagnall has good size and likes to play the body. He has solid instincts in all zones and usually can be counted on to make a key clear or keep the crease clear. He loves to shoot and join the rush. Bagnall also has very good stamina and can log a lot of minutes, including special teams play. Being an older draft pick, Bagnall might not have as much upside as other players in his draft class and needs to improve his skating technique and positioning. He had a somewhat disappointing season with Manchester in 2007-08 which highlighted his skating deficiencies. He is likely bound for Manchester for at least another season and, with the recent influx of new and highly talented defensemen in the Kings system, will need to improve quickly or be passed over.”

    On Piskula:

    “Piskula is a defensive defenseman with good size. For a man who is 63/212, he skates remarkably well with deceptive speed and can move the puck quite effectively. His smart, sound defensive zone play and great mobility are two of Piskulas attributes that have gotten many in the scouting community taking notice. While it is unlikely that hell ever become a high scoring defenseman, Piskula is a serviceable defensive defenseman. With …not much in terms of physical defensive play in Manchester, Piskula is the primary option for a stay at home defenseman call-up to Los Angeles.”

    And here’s what they say about the guy I’m rooting for, Martinez:

    “2007-08: Martinez established himself as one of the highest scoring defensemen in college … His progress this season adds yet another top defensive prospect to the Kings already robust pool. His 32 points in 42 games were amongst the NCAA leaders for points by a defenseman. He left college hockey early to sign an entry level contract with Los Angeles during the 2008 offseason.

    The first thing that jumps out about Martinez is how beautiful his skating is. He combines long, very fluid strides with terrific speed. Martinez’s tremendous skating ability allows him to skate and stay with many speedy opposing players as well as jump up into plays. He is very solid positionally and does an excellent job of staying with his assignment. Martinez has great offensive potential and wonderful puck skills. While he will aggressively challenge opposing forwards, Martinez is not overly physical. His most glaring weakness is his strength.

    Miami University head coach Enrico Blasi’s comments on Martinez: ‘Alec is not a player who is going to become a banger or crasher. He doesn’t have to be. His skating was one of the biggest reasons why recruited him. I think he can bring a lot of offense to the table because of his speed and his decision-making. He’s very dependable and somebody who is out there in key situations at all times. I don’t think I’ve seen him once get beat one-on-one.’

    With several open positions on the blueline in Los Angeles entering training camp, Martinez has a very good opportunity to earn an NHL job to start the season.”

  • anthony

    Thanks Quisp for your hard thought response.
    Thanks for posting this very interesting thread.
    It was fun and interesting to read.

  • cristobal

    quisp – great work putting all that here for people to access the info.

    prospect watching is something i’m familiar with, but i tend to think back to some of the near-sure-fire prospects like alexei morozov, marc denis, even eric rasmussen. I picked up an old Hockey News from June 30, 2003 and see they rank braydon coburn #7 overall and dion phaneuf at #10. also you won’t find corey perry until #29, after guys like anthony stewart, brent seabrook, hugh jessiman, richard stehlik and jeff tambellini. Another funny find is that in the OHL playoffs petr kanko is the 4th leading scorer, ahead of Perry and mike richards. Chris Kunitz is a newly signed free-agent out of Ferris State. The top prospects on the Kings page are
    denis grebeshkov
    mike cammalleri
    jared aulin
    jens karlsson
    sergei anshakov

    it says about Aulin, “although injuries derailed his first pro season, [he’s] highly touted by scouts, both for his skill and for the way he improved when healthy.”

    under astute selections [as draft picks] for the kings they list:
    belanger, visnovsky, cammalleri, kaberle, Bednar (2001), Lilja, and Kai Nurminen (1996).

    Its also funny to note that for edmonton, Jani Rita is rated above Jarrett Stoll as a prospect. For colorado goalie philippe sauve is rated above peter budaj and defenseman tom gilbert (edmonton?)

    Flipping to San Jose to see what Lombardi’s legacy was looking like I find the top 5 prospects to watch:
    brad boyes
    marcel goc
    mike morris
    christian ehrhoff (the hoff)
    miroslav zalesak

    Boyes is listed as their player ready to step in, and “the key to san jose’s trade of Owen Nolan to toronto late last season, a deal that also brought mccauley and a first round draft pick to the sharks for their longtime captain. An american league standout this season, boyes is smart, clever with the puck and has a nose for the net. his biggest challenge will be skating at the nhl level, a skill he figurres to improve upon in the off-season.” By the way, they also list Zyuzin as a disappointing pick. Mike Morris is highlighted and noted as, “play[ing] in all situations, logged good minutes and named to conference’s all-rookie team.”

    Finally, from this draft preview, they list the likely top picks for ’04, tabbing Ovechkin for 1st overall, but here’s the rest:
    cam barker
    devan dubnyk
    adam pineault
    robbie schremp
    wojtek wolski
    then other notables:
    malkin, Shitikov, drew stafford, evan mcgrath and Lauri Tukonen!!!

    I’m sure i’m gonna draw fire for posting all this….

  • Duckhunter

    Cristobal, precisely the point I try to make on occasions. The NHL is a whole new ballgame. You never know who will thrive and who will bomb. Many, many factors go into the equation.

    Quisp, you calm me down a lot and give me comfort in the things you say, but no matter how I break it down, I can’t see this defense being better. I can see our system getting better defensively, but not the D by itself. Not this year anyway.

  • Quisp

    Cristobal —

    Your point about highly-tauted prospects not working out (and being selected before future superstars) is well taken. It’s axiomatic that most of a team’s prospects will not reach their perceived potential. Hopefully, though, the busts are canceled out by the late-round surprises, which you also hope to have.

    I don’t know if Moller is going to be a star, or if Simmonds is, or Lewis, or Doughty or Hickey. But I do know that when I first saw Pavel Rosa, or Roman Vopat, or Matt Zultek, or Lauri Tukonen, my reaction was, uh oh, you’ve got to be kidding. At least when I see our current guys skate (Moller, et al.) I think, “damn, this could be fun in a few years.” It’s just a gut reaction.

    But hey, we could totally suck, too. I just don’t think we will.

  • cristobal

    point taken, quisp. i hope you’re right about some of them, if not all. i just keep coming back to the realization that so many of them are going to be counted on to get through this year. also, that it’s less likely with every passing year that lewis, hickey or bernier will stick. i’m haunted by Marc Denis and Al Montoya. Roman Turek. Jimmy Howard. these aren’t kings players, they’re the ones that were tabbed by all scouts as the next big thing. Alexei Morozov is another haunting name. He was, i remember, a sure fire first line center, and where is he now? you’ve seen many of them, i haven’t, though.

  • JDM

    I think Morozov chose to play in Russia and plays there now. I never remember him busting in terms of talent, only in desire to play in the NHL. All my memories of his play were of him demonstrating extreme talent and skill.

  • JDM

    Sorry for the double post, just checked up on Morozov. 241 points in 219 games for Kazan in RSL 2004-present.

    Also, Quisp, totally agree with you about the gut feeling of these prospects versus the old ones. Pavel Rosa was the only one I ever thought could pan out, and even then it was only a shimmer of hope because he didn’t impress all that much. Of the prospects I’ve seen we have now, my instinctual reaction is that this is a hugely more talented crop than we’ve ever had.

  • Marc Nathan

    Once again, we’re talking MINUTES here… and defensive pairings generally play more than the forward lines (save for the guys who don’t play on special teams.)

    Your team highest paid defenseman is Preissing, and he’s a bottom pairing guy at even strength, a second unit PP guy, and you really don’t want him out on the kill too much. When his plus/minus is good, it’s because he’s being matched against players that rarely score LOL.

    You have Johnson that will eat Blake type minutes, and you’d best hope that he doesn’t suffer a sophomore jinx/slump because he wasn’t very good in year one, and while ALL signs point to him being an impact player in the league, he can ill afford a step backwards on essentially a last place team as it is.

    Matt Greene is an intangible because we haven’t really seen him in a top pairing situation. Last year he missed 3 months to injury and when he returned, there were only SIX games he played 20 minutes or more. He’s going to be counted on a lot more as a King (unless the team gets two or three vets by pulling a rabbit out of a hat.) Only 150 games of NHL experience, and only one full NHL season, and here he is, really THIRD on the depth chart. Can you say “scary?” — and I think he’s got upside, but Matt Greene is just 2 years removed from the AHL… so, no guarantees there.

    Fourth is No-Hit Harrold. Softer than Charmin, and while he’s certainly a good puck carrying defenseman in the offensive zone, once you back pedal into the Kings zone, do you really think over an 82 game schedule that Peter Harrold won’t be victimized time and time again? What have we learned from a myriad of fleet footed, sure passing defensemen that have worn King uniforms over the past 40+ years… generally we ride them out of town. On a good team, Peter Harrold is a bubble guy. On the Kings… he’s a second pairing guy… and who’s on the blueline during the PK anyway? Yikes.

    Denis Gauthier? OK, if the Kings fell below the line and were assigned to play in the AHL this season, I’d be happy to have Denis Gauthier, but playing against the West? LOL… I think that horrifying mascot dog/lion/whateveritis… BAILEY! right, named after a dead scout… great… Bailey would be more mobile on D than Gauthier…

    And then you have the future… the staples of Staples in 2011, 2012… Doughty, Teubert (I refrain from saying Hickey because this could be as big a bust as Pamela Anderson…) and maybe Martinez… you have kids with NO NHL games, and if a highly touted kid like Johnson could come in and create stench in most games on a team that loses most games, well… these kids are not going to be the saviours… not over long stretches of time.

    Reggie has it right. Some of you have it right. I may not have it right, but it’s hard to refute much of what I’ve written.

    Mark it down. 15th place in the West… there’s just no other way to look at it… barring a miracle, or a UFO appearance and an abduction of the Avs team bus…

  • cristobal

    Marc Nathan – Prepare for some backlash. Don’t you know this is the script for “Eyes Wide Shut?”

    To be honest, you make a hell of a lot of great points. One area of debate could be Greene’s effectiveness. Played in the correct role, like the one he played in Edmonton during the Cup finals, he seems to be capable of being an asset to his club. The Kings, however, would seem to need him to be more than he is capable of being. I have said it a few times. The defense’s ability at being positive with the movement of the puck is scary.

    Many of the players I have never seen, but I don’t know of any club with this little experience at defense, ever. In fairness, though, Washington (am i picking on them) made the playoffs with some questionable talent at both ends of the ice.

    Where are you comments on the forwards?


  • Quisp

    Cristobal and Marc Nathan —

    re “prepare for some backlash”/”Eyes Wide Shut”/last place “no other way to look at it”:

    You guys act like you think you’re speaking hard truths to people with their heads in the sand. You’re not going out on any limbs here. It’s easy to say the Kings will finish last. You act like everyone else thinks they’re going to the cup finals and every prospect in the pipeline is going to them them there starting next month.

    The reality is, everyone knows the Kings are likely not going to make the playoffs this year. Everyone knows that Harrold, Greene, Gauthier and Preissing are not the core of a cup-winning defense.

    All you’re really saying is, you feel more comfortable declaring as an absolute that the Kings suck and are doomed this season, rather than allowing any amount of hope. That doesn’t mean you won’t be right about the Kings finishing last. They might.

    But keep in mind that for the Kings to get anywhere near a playoff birth — not 15th as you predict, but 10th — for them to have a shot at making the playoffs after New Years, even if they fall short, this would make a lot of fans ecstatic, it would be a huge victory for the Kings. And it’s entirely doable. What did we have, 71 points last year? I would have to check. But getting to 80 points is not out of the question. And 93-ish is the playoffs, usually. Is 93 going to happen? I’m not putting money on it. Is 80? I wouldn’t bet against it.

  • Quisp

    What especially irritates me about pointing out the absence of “proven NHL caliber” whatevers and complaining about it like it’s a flaw in the matrix is that there is no alternative plan other than to do exactly what the Kings did last year. You’re actually arguing for stocking the team with Nagys and the rest of them. Half-assed rebuilds don’t work. Build from the ground up. Choose wisely. Take your lumps.

  • cristobal

    Quisp – Did you read where I said this?

    Many of the players I have never seen, but I don’t know of any club with this little experience at defense, ever. In fairness, though, Washington (am i picking on them) made the playoffs with some questionable talent at both ends of the ice.

    Chill out. I can hear you screaming at me through the computer. I’m not trying to iritate you, just talk about the situation. Not all free-agents turn into Cloutier, Nagy and Handzus, just Lombardi’s. There’s a reason Stuart looked like rubbish here, and won a cup in Detroit. We keep talking about a rebuild but its already here. He’s rebuilt the team into a total loser. Wasn’t 2nd and 3rd worst over the last 2 seasons enough? Now we need to cross our fingers and hope we aren’t dead last? Lombardi has pretty much cleaned house since taking over and it was HIS team that finished tied for the least amount of points in the league last season, 3 points BETTER than the previous year. When you’re sh*t you better be able to handle the criticism through the summer, especially when you trade Cammalleri and Visnovsky. The BS is that he’s A) talking rebuild, B) overpaying non-contributors, and C) trading good NHLers because they looked bad playing on his “team of confusion.” You don’t think Cammalleri, Blake, and Stuart were happy to get the hell out? Get real. This is not a developmental league and you don’t throw promising young players under the bus like this. There are always injuries with every team and where the hell are they gonna turn in January when a few of the “serviceable players” are not available? We all want to see young players develop into great NHLers, but it IS burying our heads in the sand to say that this is going to be an interesting year. Unless you like to gawk at train-wrecks, this year is just plain scary.
    We’re all hockey fans, I don’t doubt that. But this is out-and-out playing with fire by Lombardi. AEG owns an empty building in KC and if they aren’t filling enough seats you can bet they’ll think about moving. There are a lot of hockey fans in so. cal. and what AEG don’t realize is that many of them actually know the game well. Where you won’t find a majority of those fans is at a Kings game. I’ve seen it. The majority don’t know d*ck about hockey, they’re busy ‘people watching.’
    Those who want to see quality hockey are going down to OC. Maybe they’ll come back north if the team turns around, but by then the Kings could very well be gone. If you think this is impossible look up AEG’s San Jose Earthquakes/Houston Dynamo franchise. Moved.

  • Quisp

    Christobal –

    re “chill out”:

    I’m not screaming at you through my computer. I just think you’re taking a fairly obvious observation (Kings rebuilding, won’t make playoffs, lots of rookies, few star vets) and criticizing everyone who doesn’t share your apocalyptic outlook.

    I also think it’s funny that you tell me to chill out and then go on to say this year will be a “trainwreck,” “just plain scary,” “playing with fire,” leading apparently to the franchise moving to “an empty building in KC.”

    As far as “it IS burying our heads in the sand to say that this is going to be an interesting year”… If you say so. I am interested. I would rather watch this team than any other Kings team in the last several years.

    But, hey, give me some numbers. What do you think the Kings are going to do this year? How many points? How far out of a playoff spot? Give me a range. Say +/- 5 pts. Let’s all play! It’ll be fun to look back and see how wrong we were.

    I’m going to go with 84 points, 10th in conference if they sign a Schneider-ish D, 79 points, 12th in conference if they don’t.

    Your turn.

  • Marc Nathan


    If the team that they have RIGHT NOW, can finish 10th in the conference, I would consider that a Stanley Cup win. Seriously. This has all the makings of being one of the worst teams in the history of the sport, much less this season.

    It’s not like there isn’t talent there. I give you that. It’s that there’s more talent elsewhere. Seriously, based on this unbalanced schedule, the Kings don’t get the luxury of playing Florida, the Isles, the Thrashers but once or twice… when this team is up against the West, it’s going to be nearly impossible to sustain any momentum. A huge upset win (as virtually all wins will be, by oddsmakers standards) is going to be followed by a crushing defeat. Rough 2-1 losses are going to be followed by some 5-1, 6-1 games, and the parade of goalies, and young kids up from the Monarchs is going to be a band-aid fix for a game or two, but over the longhaul… not a fix at all.

    10th place? I’m not a betting man, but if I were, I would not be with ya on that one 🙂

  • JDM

    I like predictions, we’ll have to remember to recall this thread in April.

    I say 11th in Conference, 20th in league. 86 points.

  • MarkE

    As a long time, disappointed season ticket holder my expectation aren’t very high for obvious reasons. Sure we’re going to finish near the bottom of the division most likely. But, if we have 15 players play with the same intensity as Dustin Brown I have no problem forking out another 5K this year in the hopes DL has not completely F’d this team up. The fact is they haven’t fielded a team that does, and this current roster show no signs of being that team. I hope the likes of Stoll, Greene, Gauthier, together with Brown, Ivanis,a more feisty JJ & Sully are a start. Players like Anze, Fro, Purcell, Moulson need to have the room to do there thing.
    Player like Ellis, Army, Richardson, Zieler, Caulder are a dime a dozen in the NHL. We are better off carrying someone who will at least drop their gloves once in a while to protect our young assets we are always talking about. I rather have Clune or Westgarth out there. Lets really see what our young guys can do!!!!! Let’s not go down without a FIGHT!!!!

  • cristobal

    ok quisp.

    let me look at the schedule and i’ll come up with predictions.

    i understand that you find it funny that i’m worried, but i don’t think the possibilities are funny. i think they’re melodramatically tragic. not life and death stuff, but in terms of hockey and the team i grew attached to, sad.

    you’re right that things may change. players will be added or traded or whatever. so its impossible to see what the end of the season will be like. what we’ve seen so far with this management doesn’t give me hope, though.

    from my perspective, i see all this debate as not only me trying to convince you that the sky is falling, but you trying to convince me the club is better off and is on the rise, or will be soon. my initial prediction is 30th in the league and somewhere around 50 points. at times i think even that is being too hopeful. i could see lombardi being fired. i don’t know. if ownership is more concerned with the “best draft in kings history” than they are with wins, maybe he can’t be fired if he gets tavares’s pick next year. who knows what they (lieweke) think. i’m fairly certain they don’t have a clue what constitutes “positives” in terms of players. they’ll be watching the attendance numbers and the media to tell them which way to go.

    the one improvement, i’m hoping, is that terry murray is going to be a much better coach. i have a hunch he will be, but how much does he have to work with? it doesn’t look like much right now. we’ve only got 1 and 2/3 of a starting lineup at forward and 1 defenseman i’m confident in at the moment. i really don’t know how to make a prediction based on that. god, we haven’t even established who’s going to be in goal. My hunch there is Ersberg. and really i know so little about him.

  • cristobal

    my prediction – 50 points, 30th overall. as it stands right now i think i’m being generous. how about 50 pts as an over/under. will the team win 20 games? i’m not confident in that.

    by the by, has doughty’s contract been ‘disclosed’ yet?

  • Quisp

    Cristobal –

    Your “generous” prediction would literally be the worst team in Kings history, although I think right after expansion they had like 40 points and 50 points a couple of years later. I’d hate to see your prediction when you get pessimistic!

  • cristobal

    quisp – i’m not being humorous with that prediction. do you understand why i am saying the things i am? if my prediction were correct, how would you feel?

  • cristobal

    Jdm – hmmm. almost 90 points?

  • JDM


    Here’s my reasoning. I think pleanty of teams will tank. The Ducks won’t be as good this season. San Jose will be great. Colorado could easily stink it up. The Blues could easily suck just as bad this season. Nashville who knows but they’ll probably be top 6 in the conference. Dallas, Detroit and Chicago should definately make playoffs. Columbus could make the playoffs or they could be in the cellar, they changed their team up so much it might be tough to get a rhythm going. They may be great and finish 5-7th, but they may go 10-25-5 in their first 40 games, who knows. Ummm… who else, Pheonix I think will be strong, but they are young too and I hope to see a turnaround with our luck in Pheonix and for us to win most of that series. Calgary will be good but not great. The Oilers will probably be solid, but they’ve been a bit topsy turvy the last few years. And finally the Wild, again, will probably push for a playoff spot, but they also could be a team we could beat. If we tighten up a bit defensively, we already outscore teams like the Wild, Blues, etc. All it takes is a hot goalie and they were are, sitting in the middle of the conference.

    So it’s not so much that I think the Kings will be great as that I think the western conference is overall weaker this year than it was last year.

    When you mentioned looking at the schedule, it reminded me that I’d forgotten the more balanced play against eastern conference teams this season. That changes things a bit, but even still, the general principal of some other teams being totally different and wild cards, some teams having gotten worse or no better, and what a good defensive system and a steady goalie can do is give us an opportunity to finish above several other teams. By no means do I expect us to be in the playoffs, and we’ll probably be out of the hunt for a berth by early-mid March. But look around the league, I think we can do better than the Thrashers, Blues, Islanders, hell even Tampa could suck the big one with a completely new roster with all forwards and no defense. The Panthers lost their best scorer, we can beat them out. Etc, etc, etc.

    All that garbledy-gook aside, my 86 points prediction is off the top of my head, intial gut feeling.

  • vq

    Anyone that picked Teubert over Martinez (or even Piskula for that matter) needs to turn their hockey fandom card in immediately.

    thats just completely ridiculous.

  • Duckhunter

    Cristobal, How many games have you attended at Honda center? When was the last time you’ve been there? Because if you think Duck fans know more about hockey than King fans, your a little confused or haven’t been to a Ducks game. Talk about bandwagon fans.

  • cristobal

    JDM – just glancing down the schedule, i see no more than 22-23 wins, possibly none in january.

    jdm, quisp, duckhunter – visit my new site


  • cristobal

    duckhunter – zero.

  • Quisp

    I checked your site out previously. I put it in my news reader so I’ll get the updates automatically.

    As far as seeing why you’re so down, I guess what I would say is, if I truly thought the Kings were going to be THAT bad, I guess I would just try to enjoy the hideousness of it all. I was on a team once, Bantams, I think, that moved up one “A” too many, and then some of our best forwards were poached by a certain Detroit team (Little Caesars, if memory serves) and we ended up going 0-30. We would lose every game by six goals. There was literally no way to feel bad about it. That’s how I would feel if the Kings crap out at 50 points. I would just reframe it as, let’s see how this guy does, or that guy. I would root for the kids. And look forward to Tavares. Sadly, I don’t think we’re getting Tavares.

  • cristobal

    quisp – i gotta say, you are the eternal optimist. you always have a knack for making me laugh, too. the image of ‘moving up one “A” too many’ is pure quality.

    duckhunter – i’ve never gone to a ducks game, but know some knowledgeable hockey fans who go to see quality sides play and they don’t relish watching the Kings too often. i’ve only been to 3 kings games at staples and the last time was a 4-1 loss to san jose in 2006-2007. the other two were also losses, one of them to edmonton, i believe it was a shutout in the A Murray era. I’m really not too interested in going as I can get real frustrated. unlike quisp, i tend to focus on the futility of some of the players. like the 4-1 loss to san jose, i just couldn’t get over how shaky Garon was. It was like it was his first night in goal. when i go to a professional sporting event, i hope to be awed by the skill and speed. It was that way for me in the Gretzky era. i could get into my ideas about promotion and relegation, but i’ll just say i’d rather pay 5 dollars to watch the kings play in the nhl than feel like i’m being taken for a fool and sold a false article at whatever face value they’re charging. that said, i have to admit that the san jose game i attended was a freebie, discounting parking and the 5 dollar soda and gas, as i know an employee of AEG (devils). like you i sit and watch at home mostly, but even that becomes frustrating. this has nothing to do with lombardi, but the year before the lockout, i will never forget the last game in san jose (again san jose) when the kings had a 3-1 lead with 90 seconds to play and lost in overtime. or garon’s first game, opening night, when they went up 4-0 on dallas and blew it in the 3rd period, or the season opener against boston when up 3-0 they were able to blow it. its just frustrating to me. maybe i’m too competitive even when i’m not playing. actually, sometimes when i’m playing i can accept failure better. uh, at least now that i’m a little older.

  • Quisp

    22 wins, 60 OT losses, 104 points, first in conference.

  • cristobal

    duckhunter – editorial f-up – I meant 5 dollars to play in the ahl. i’m sure everyone would rather pay 5 to watch the nhl.

    quisp – what do you speculate for wins this season? look at january, i think it could be a zero win month. i just pretty much picked the teams i thought they could beat and lose to and scanned real quick.

    did you catch my comments about the kings worst points totals and quebec’s 31 point season? 31 points around ’88 with sakic, leschysin, sundin, and stastny.

  • Quisp

    Cristobal —

    It’s hard for me to count wins based on looking at the schedule. Bad teams frequently find their wins against the biggest teams in the league. Losing every game in a month can happen, but it has more to do with momentum and the team’s mindset than who they’re playing, if you ask me. Are homestands good, or do they freak the team out having to play for the home crowd? Long road trips, debilitating, or a bonding experience? The Kings actually have rivalries with several of the best teams in the conference (Detroit, Colorado, Anaheim, San Jose) so that’s obviously another intangible.

    I guess since I predicted somewhere between 79 and 85 points, I would break that down as somewhere between 34-37-11 and 37-34-11.

    Anyone seeing these various Kings rumors today, on Eklund and LKG? A “source” inside the Kings telling someone (I don’t know these other blogs so it’s hard for me to tell who is doing the reporting) that the Kings have made an offer to the Ducks for someone and it’s probably not Schneider. …

  • cristobal

    don’t know the rumors yet, but though i wouldn’t snub schneider, i don’t know if it would be good for the Kings or him. He’s “good with the puck on his stick” though, so i’d take him. Unless the ducks pay part of his salary, is this a fair move? Cammy’s not here but should we pay a guy like schneider 5 mil. even for one season after hammering down cammalleri? bad business if you ask me. I’d have rather begged modry to return. Besides, the fans are going to crucify Schneider after a while and boo him. Why would he want that?
    When looking at the schedule, I somewhat lean towards your take on the season. Games we expect to lose will be won and games we expect to win will be lost. It always happens. But looking at some teams around the league makes the Kings chances look better, too. There is an unwillingness to spend for NHL quality, and a cap keeping some teams from doing it, throughout the league. Part of the reason I hate the Cap and the League office.
    Part of my hope lies with the KHL. I hope they open up soon and really nail the NHL to the wall in terms of building truly “professional” teams. I’ll be writing on that on my blog.

  • Quisp

    I like Schneider and like him for the Kings this year, if it can work. I would be surprised if Schneider’s agent couldn’t find a better team for him to go to at this point, but I would be happy.

  • cristobal

    I like him too, but do think the fans would turn on him like they did on blake, visnovsky, and cammalleri. Oh yeah, and Modry. Plus, i’m not concerned with wasting AEG’s money, but the contract is a big one and everyone rather booted cammy and visnovsky out the door for wanting to be paid well. JDM wants Hedican who might be a better fit with the team. Schneider is a great player, or was, but he tends to take bad penalties and would be the sole offensive-defenseman which, at his age, might be an overwhelming spot to put him in. I’d welcome him back, though. I like him.

  • cristobal

    Not to rain on the parade of hope, but I wish this guy were a King


    Did we have “the best draft in Kings history?”

  • Quisp

    Well, re Schneider salary vs. Cammy salary, it’s a different situation. Schneider is old and it would likely be as a one season rental, really. He’s a UFA next summer, and the Kings of course could re-sign, but they could also let him go and not have it affect anything in terms of future negotiations with Kings players. Also, paying 5+ for Schneider at the end of his career is different than paying Cammy whatever at the beginning or middle of his career. It’s not going to be used as a benchmark for anything the Kings care about.

    Also, as far as the fans turning on the players you mentioned: I don’t think the fans ever turned on Lubo. Modry was never a fan favorite, so you can’t really say anyone turned on him. Cammy was a polarizing figure, but there was no “turn.” Maybe you’re just referring to the people who comment on blogs, but I don’t think that’s representative of the majority of fans. The exception is Blake, who the fans — or at least many fans who actually attend games — did turn against after the first trade. He did seem to be welcomed back with open arms. Will he be booed again this fall? I think so. But it’s a case of a more or less public slighting.

    Schneider was never as big a fan favorite as Blake, and there was never any bad blood. In general, I think he’s more likable as a personality. It seems like downright bad manners to dislike him.

  • cristobal

    Agree on Schneider’s likeablity. Remember too, he didn’t want to be traded from LA back then.

    Looking at the first month of games is crazy. Blake is going to get a quick start at proving LA right or wrong about him. I think he’ll be booed heavily in the first home game. I’ll be watching to see if he’s the dinosaur or the cup hungry monster. also, the first month i see possibly 6 points out of 9 games. Averaged over the season, that would exceed my 50 pts by 4. We’ll see.

    That Gretzky tree has my eyes crossed and spinning. unbelievable the work in that.

  • cristobal

    Oh yeah, I don’t like the way some view the salary, and the he’s old so he can make that. Cammy played hard and could easily never reach 36 yrs old playing in this league. Pay him what he’s worth. Look at Parrish. 31 and unwanted even though he can score. The salary cap sucks – thanks AEG.

  • Quisp

    Re cap:

    I’m not saying it’s fair, the salary thing. I’m saying it makes sense in terms of DL operating within the structure of the cap.

    I’m on the fence about the cap, personally. I like the idea that the teams can’t just Yankees their way to a cup. However, if it turns out that it has made rebuilding impossible (due to the reality of having many of your players come up for renegotiation at the same time), then it will have failed in the very arena it was supposed to succeed. We’ll know in about five years.

  • K-Rock

    Vishnevski is going back to Russia, thats the reason why NJ waived him. you had no chance at him in the first place.

  • Quisp

    How about Bryan Berard? Left shot, power play, big, unsigned?

  • yesitscal

    One thing GM’s are going to have to learn how to do is to stagger player contracts so you don’t have a situation where too many of your better players are coming off of contract in the same year. This is what will happen to Anaheim after this coming season, although to be fair some of their players were signed before the cap fell into place. Once the cap goes down, which I still feel it will, many times are going to hae to be tossing out one or two of their high-salaried players into the streets and then other teams with cap space will be able to pick them up at bargain prices.

  • Quisp

    K-Rock –

    You have it backwards, I think. I forget the technicalities, but I believe this is one of Lou L.’s loopholes. He waives the player, then “loans” him to the russian club, in order to get him off his books in some way. It doesn’t mean the player is REALLY going to Russia, although he might if he’s not picked up by another team. I’m sure some other commentators can fill in the blanks of this.

  • Quisp

    “Source: Senators defenseman Andrej Meszaros agrees to offer sheet with another team
    from The Hockey News
    Hours after Ottawa GM Bryan Murray held a news conference to announce the team was at a contractual impasse with restricted free agent defenseman Andrej Meszaros, The Hockey News has learned from a source close to the negotiations that Meszaros has agreed to a multi-year offer sheet with an average salary in excess of $5 million per season.”

    I would be shocked if the Kings are the undisclosed team. But he is a left-shot.

  • Anonymous

    Are they going to try to play Boyle on D if we can’t get eanyone else to sign with us??? At least they can get him on the point on the PP and PK duties…

    As to the THN story…Cloutier is to blame for this not coming to reality… The lack of our OWN 3rd rounder (now in Buffalo’s hands) is the reason…

  • Quisp

    Okay, so it’s Meszaros to TBL for Filip Kuba, Alexandre Picard and a 1st (which TB got from SJS, so it’s not a high 1st). My question is, if the Kings had made a version of this deal — say, Preissing, Harrold, and the Kings 2009 2nd round pick — would the Kings improve themselves? To put it another way, is DL smart not to have gotten into the Meszaros sweepstakes?

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