More on Stoll

I like this signing.
The team needed it to happen. One down, one to go (I don't care about Richardson at all).

I appreciate DL's effort.
But giving a player a $1.3 Million raise after a poor season (only 36 points) - I don't know about that.
Thoughts.

For myself, I am very interested in Richardson.

he could possibly be a sleeper.

At least, I refuse to lose interest in him intil
he disappoints me.

He hasn't had a chance to do that yet.

Hey, Anthony Likes It!

I do too.

The Kings had to give him market price to sign him long term. Hopefully he won't continue the long line of injured free agents that've come the Kings way recently.

Well, if he hadn't had the off-year and the injury, he wouldn't have been traded, probably. The "raise" has more to do with the previous season, and his commensurate market value. That's what happens when you don't get a shot at a raise every year like a normal employee. When it comes time for a new contract, you have to figure in the last several years of work.

"One thing I'm told is that the Kings don't want to settle for signing O'Sullivan to a one-year contract. It won't solve their long-term issue and they think it sets a bad precedent for the other young players whose contracts will be up soon. So they will continue to work toward a long-term contract with O'Sullivan."

Thank you very much for that little bit of information, Rich. It's because of small insights such as the one above that I am willing to be a little more understanding of Lombardi's percieved inactions, and wait it out while Dean attempts to sign these young cornerstones "the right way."

This is good news although I am cautiously optimistic. The Kings have a history of signing good players only for them to turn out as busts. Stoll is a gutsy grinder of a player as I recall from his days in Edmonton. I hope the long term deal gives him the security and the incentive to elevate his game and make a name for himself as a King player.

Now if DL can just get this Sully deal done.....

Wow, 3.6 mill. avg. per season for a guy who's scored 59 goals in 3 seasons! What's Anze going to command? Phil Anschutz must have some indigestion going on right now!

"giving a player a $1.3 Million raise after a poor season (only 36 points) - I don't know about that"

I agree with this sentiment and Dean probably overpaid some, but you have to consider the fact that the market has become more costly since Stoll last signed a deal.

i wouldn't be surprised if lombardi announces sully's signing at the gm breakfast on saturday. it would be a nice way to uplift the sure to be excitable crowd in attendance.

So some of the initial thoughts is that this is more than Stoll is worth (see sportsnet.ca article...), however - Rich do you know if there is an NTC/NMC attached to the contract?... at least if there is not a no movement/no trade clause we *could* still trade him without consent...

Quisp - you say that like its better to be a normal employee!!! I wish I could get deals like that at work. All I have is the bonus of extra UV damage.

Good to see this signing, though it seems a bit high - not that I care how Lombardi spends Big Phil's money. Let's hope he lives up to it and plays for this club like a man possessed. He's only 26 and should have many good years in him. If O'Sullivan is comparing himself to Stoll's numbers, he should remember that he only had one pretty good year and accept around 2.5 for 3 years, or so.
Another guy who's gonna be comparing himself to this is Cammalleri. Same age, different roles. Let's see who fills the bill best. But at least the game is over on this one for a while. Or, at least until the trade-deadline.

I think that after this season, Kopitar is really going to be expensive. All the Russian bashing should really be tamed as they're going to want Kopitar if they can lure him. All this mess with the Kings prospects could be bad for the future. If Russia ditch their salary cap, all bets are off.

Cristobal --

I really think Kopitar will be only as expensive as the market dictates. I hope he's expensive, frankly, because it means he will have had a great season this year. The reality of what the market is for Stoll just underlines for me the necessity of keeping all these contracts in check, long contracts, incentives, etc; if DL doesn't keep everything in line with the overall multi-year plan, it is guaranteed to fall apart. Mathematically, it simply must fail if any one player gets too much.

Meanwhile, did anyone see the Hockey News bit where they name the Kings one of three teams to watch this year, and -- elsewhere in the same issue -- Moller as one of the "ten to watch"?

McCauly, Cloutier, Handzus.... why NOT overpay for someone who doesn't deserve it - he's done it already 3 times. Four strikes and you're out?

If this were me or you in our jobs, we would have been fired for these mistakes a long time ago.

for those of you complaining about the contract being a bit high for his output of points last season, you need to realize Stoll isn't just an offensive player. Dean isn't paying him just for his points.

he's a 2-way center and will improve the defense from the Kings' forward lines. he'll get some PK time too, and his foot speed will be a step up from Handzus' and Armstrong's.

Stoll is a defensive player? Did you watch him play at all lasy year? -23, worse than any King last year
He is good on face-offs, has a great shot and is a decent penalty killer but he is a mediocre player in
even strength situations.

Beautiful. Glad to hear it. If he ends up overpaid then oh well, he isn't THAT highly paid, nothing that will screw up our cap space or anything when trying to sign Kopi and JJ. He'll be nearly off the books when our current picks get their next contracts. I'm just glad he's signed and for a good term. Like the rest, let's hope SUlly falls soon. I have a good feeling that it will happen tomorrow or Saturday.

Smart move on DL's part to hold out with Sully for a multi year deal. We need to sign our guys long term for stability in the organization. I hope this doesn't lead to a hold out but I think it's very important to sign him long term.

I can't really comment on whether Stoll is a good 2 way player or not because I haven't seen him enough. I refuse to go by the +/- stat though. As I've said before...I hate that stat more than any other in sports...with the exception of saves in baseball.

At least he isn't Andruw Jones...

Metal master - we need to give Stoll for being one of the league leaders in hits. It may seem like a footnote, but it can make a difference in a game, especially against tired teams.

Regarding the virtues of Stoll:

1. He is a leader.
   
2. He had a great season before the concussion.
   
3. He was great in the playoffs whenever that was ('06?).
   
4. He is gritty, a league leader in hits.
   
5. He is good at face-offs.
   
6. He is a penalty-killer.
   
7. He plays point on the power-play.
   
8. He's versatile.
   
9. He's young.
   

Quisp,

10. And he has a knack with the Cougars!!!!

I can totally see this trade from Edmonton view but I
cannot see it from King view. They gave up a veteran
defenceman who will probably be better this year than
any veteran they will be able to pick up in the the next couple of weeks if they do pick up a veteran for a
couple of players who were down on Edmonton depth chart. I don't argue that Stoll could be good but I think defense is more of a problem. Interestingly DL
could have drafted Stoll when he was with San Jose but
drafted some other stiff instead who never panned out.
Greene is a 5th or 6th defenseman who provides no
offensive upside.

metalmaster --

The Lubo trade from the Kings point of view has more to do with '09 and beyond. A team with both Doughty and Hickey does not need Lubo. He would drive salaries up for those players. He might not ever be as good as he was two seasons ago. He certainly would NOT be getting the same icetime, as that WILL go to Doughty and Hickey. Therefore, Lubo on the Kings would not ever get the chance (icetime) to perform like he once did. Ironically, the fact of his crappy season last year helped make the Doughty pick possible. And Doughty is, in effect, his replacement.

Stoll fits the bill of what we need, a #2, #3 center. Greene is mean and tough, which the Kings need more than anything else.

No offensive upside is not a major consideration, since DL is trying to address defensive issues primarily. The Kings have a lot of firepower...

That's the logic. Works for me. It's a GM's job to make the call on exactly when a player has peaked, is in decline, etc., and to maximize value for him. It's not easy to do, and mistakes often occur. Lubo could rebound. I hope he does. That's a win/win for everyone. But those are the best trades, right, when both teams benefit. Stoll also is in need of a rebound after last season. My fingers are crossed.

You know, this trade could well turn out to be just like Lombardi's failed free-agent dealings. I mean, how is Stoll supposed to have decent numbers or affect this team when its in a shambles? Is this guy really going to give his heart into this? He's got the Cougar, he's got the bank account, is he going to be hungry?

Nobody thinks the Kings are "a shambles." My impression is, people on the East Coast don't think about the Kings at all; and other than that, it seems like people think the Kings are contenders to be the next Pittsburgh. Check out the latest Hockey News.

Anyway, Stoll will put his heart into it because it's his career and he has integrity and character. Unlike some people.

Was giving Stoll a million dollar per year raise a must? There wasn't much shine on his "contract" year performance. Just asking. How does he get a good raise based on last year? Is it just because of the injury?

Quisp - I fail to see how Blake's integrity and character are in any way questionable. Nor do I see how you don't see the Kings in a shambles. 3rd worst, 2nd worst,....going to be 1st worst this year. I see evidence to support my statement about the team. I'm not saying Stoll isn't a dedicated and hard-working player, but it seems to me the Kings can suck the life out of some of the most dedicated and hardworking players: Smolinski, Conroy, Laperriere, Palffy, A Miller.

Good luck to Stoll. I hope these players have personal success this season and that they don't base their efforts simply on the success of the team. Apart from ownership, I wish the players the best of luck. Maybe I just need to start separating the players from the owners, and forget about some things. When I do that, though, I start to hope for the success of San Jose and Blake: I hope he wins a cup this year. For Cammalleri in Calgary: I hope he has a great year and enjoys playing with some great players like Iginla and Phaneuf. For Visnovsky: I hope he thrives in Edmonton, although I don't like too much of what goes on there - Edmonton seems to be a bit of a shambles as well. Hmmm, and Brent Sopel, I hope he has an enjoyable season, and stays healthy, with a rebuilt Vancouver. Vancouver may not make many waves, but hopefully they are a competitive team that shows some of the established winners a tough night. And for all the Kings newcomers and youngsters: stick together and support each other, don't let anyone push you around, rise up and take the fight to teams like Detroit, San Jose, and Calgary. If the young guys refuse to waive the white flag, they'll be doing better than many of the Kings recent teams and I'll consider my words eaten. Hopefully all of quisp's scouting is correct and a new era of team spirit will grip the Kings, despite how fookin horrible Big Phil and Timmy Coattails prove to be.

cheers.

Cristobal --

Re Blake: we've been over this ground before. It's all been said. I find Blake saying "I should have come here years ago," or whatever it was, offensive. Just as a politician can be said to lack integrity or character if they say one thing to one crowd and the opposite to another crowd, so it can be said about Rob Blake. Compare to Luc: I never once heard him say anything bad about the Kings, and he had reason to, given the situation with Gretzky before he was dealt the first time.

Re Smolinski, Conroy, Laperriere, Palffy, A Miller:

Smolinski -- I didn't know we sucked the life out of him. I thought he was great. Still do. From way back in his MSU days. He had two or three of his best seasons with the Kings, and was of course part of those historic playoff series. I don't think he has anything bad to say about LA. Those were the heady Andy Murray days.

Conroy -- he was all right. Had one of his best seasons with the Kings. Then had a bad season and got traded. Last year he played closer to the level of his bad Kings season, numbers slightly down in total from the previous (bad) year. So unless Calgary is also a shambles, I don't see how we ruined Conroy.

Laperriere -- outside of his one standout season with the Avs, he has played several seasons with Colorado putting up exactly the same kinds of numbers he did with the Kings. But he's still played more playoff games and scored more playoff points with the Kings. Don't really see how we sucked the life out of him. Everyone liked him here. Everyone likes him there.

Palffy -- well, Ziggy had three great season with the Isles and one bad one. Then he had two great seasons with the Kings, two good seasons that were a little disappointing, and one injury-filled season. Three of those five seasons he and the Kings were in the playoffs. The only playoff appearances of his career. Palffy got a bit messed up by injuries and by the work stoppage. The Kings never did wrong by him. Certainly he has earned a spot in Kings history with the three series in two years against Det and Col. Contrary to your argument, Palffy peaked with the Kings.

Aaron Miller -- I loved this guy. If this blog had existed at the time of the Blake trade, I would have been insanely declaring the trade a major upgrade. I had the same Blake argument I have with you with everyone on my beer league team, and they all thought I was nuts. Aaron Miller was of course hampered by injuries, as was Deadmarsh. But for that he would have been a King for life. He's ten times the pure defenseman Rob Blake is or was. And he was a crucial piece of the Kings' success that year.

quisp - totally disagree with almost all you say. the worst think Taylor ever did was hold on to A Murray, being loyal to his own demise, too long. Palffy didn't want to play here anymore and left, Laperriere left for SOME reason, Aaron miller was a decent defensive defenseman who could barely clear the puck from his own zone let alone score, but he looks like he hated playing here the last 2 seasons at least, even stating that he wanted to go if the Kings didn't bring in some better players. Smolinski's career was in a shambles here and only the fact that he got out saved him. He's still playing today, but you could see when he was with the Kings how frustrated he was. Smoke is a talented player who's best years were tarnished by the negative aura A Murray started to generate after the two glorious playoff seasons. Conroy would, likewise, have taken a job anywhere after the decline set in here. There were some good times for all these players, but you could sense the sour atmosphere the last 2 years of A Murrays tenure.

As for Blake saying he should have gone to san jose years ago, how is that insulting to the Kings. Even if it is meant as a slight on LA, its tame and indirect. Were you one of the BOO birds that always jumped on a great, norris trophy, team mvp player? There is no loyalty in the Kings. That's why all there are no career Kings left around. There is a realization that Big Phil and the Coattail-Riders could give a shit about anything anyone has done for the team. Were the fan's leaving before when Taylor was GM? When have the Kings ever wanted for attendance? The Forum was always sold out from what I remember. 18,005. Isn't that the old number for attendance and one year they set the mark for sellouts?

I love Blake. I hope he hip-checks Calder into tomorrow. Maybe it'll wake Calder up. I'm sure he'll be rocketing some PP goals by the unprotected Kings netminders.

Quisp
Keeping Visnosky would have given more time to develop
Hickey and Doughty. There is no certainty either or
both will ever be the equal of Visnosky. Stoll is a
guy who could go either way. My guess is Hickey will
not make the team this year so Vis would not have taken
a spot from him. Vis was important part of power play
as well.

Metalmaster --

I agree with you that keeping Lubo would have given more time to develop Hickey and Doughty. I also agree that there is no guarantee that either of these prospects will top Lubo in the long run. Stoll, could go either way -- you get no argument from me. Hickey won't make the team this year -- yes, that's true, too. And of course Lubo was a big part of the powerplay. We are on the same page re all of your points.

I am too tired to look up whatever it was I said above about Lubo. My point was that just that the writing was on the wall for Lubo once the Kings drafted Doughty. Keeping him this year would probably have been fine. DL had to make a calculation regarding when he was going to get the highest value for Lubo. He also had to address team toughness for this season. No doubt DL is taking a gamble that Hickey and Doughty are the so-called real deal. That's a gamble I can live with. I'm a fan of Lubo. But I get what the deal is about. It works for me.

Cristobal --

"the worst think [sic] Taylor ever did was hold on to A Murray, being loyal to his own demise [??], too long."

Andy Murray was a great coach, still one of the Kings best-ever coaches. Certainly the best coach in the quarter century I have been following the Kings.

"Palffy didn't want to play here anymore and left"

Palffy was injured and after a year off due to the lock-out, was flirting with retirement. Then he thought he might win a cup in PIT so he signed with them and when a half a season later (I believe it was) it didn't work out, he called it quits.

"Laperriere left for SOME reason"

Obviously, he thought his chances of winning a cup were better in COL.

"Aaron miller was a decent defensive defenseman who could barely clear the puck from his own zone let alone score"

You said the Kings sucked the life out of him. Now you say he sucked.

"but he looks like he hated playing here the last 2 seasons at least, even stating that he wanted to go if the Kings didn't bring in some better players."

Until you show me the quote where he says he hated playing here and asked to be let go unless better players were brought in, I'm just going to have to file this as "some b.s. you're pulling out of your a**." I will even accept as corroboration any other commenters saying, "yeah. I remember him saying that, too."

"Smolinski's career was in a shambles here and only the fact that he got out saved him."

No. He had some of his best seasons here. And some of his worst since he left.

"He's still playing today, but you could see when he was with the Kings how frustrated he was.

This is what's called a projection bias. You are the one who is frustrated, and you are projecting your frustration onto players. Obviously, you have no special insight into Brian Smolinski's frustration.

"Conroy would, likewise, have taken a job anywhere after the decline set in here."

I'm sure. He was traded, though, was he not?

"Were you one of the BOO birds that always jumped on a great, norris trophy, team mvp player?"

Well, Cristobal, you are in fact referring to people who paid money to go see the Kings and were not happy with Blake. My own season tickets lapsed when the Kings moved to Staples. But, in fact, I was one of the original boo birds who spent $10,000 a year of my hard-earned money for ten years and watched in person every one of Rob Blake's home games in the 90s, and watched every away game on television. I never uttered the word "boo" however. I just thought he was a defensive liability with an ass check that often led to a goal by the opposing team on the same play.

"Big Phil and the Coattail-Riders could give a shit about anything anyone has done for the team."

You mean couldn't give a shit. It's like "couldn't care less."

"The Forum was always sold out from what I remember. 18,005."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I was at every game in the 90s, Cristobal. The second half of the decade, games were almost never sold out. And half the time, I couldn't get anyone to go with me to those games and went by myself. My seats were in the Kings VIP section, which was often so empty that they had to give away dozens of tickets to schools or what have you.

I love Blake. I hope he hip-checks Calder into tomorrow.

You can count the number of hip checks Rob Blake has left in him on one hand.

"I'm sure he'll be rocketing some PP goals by the unprotected Kings netminders."

They will be more protected this year than last year.

Really, Cristobal, I think you should just go ahead and switch to rooting for San Jose. You rooted for the Ducks a couple of years ago when they looked like they might win the cup, and did. You love Blake and want him to devastate Kings' players with his ass. You hate Kings ownership, the GM, both coaches of the last 10 years, all of the Kings free-agent signings, all of their trades, you can't be said to be a fan of any of the team's prospects, and you are certain the team is going to finish with the worst or near to the worst record in franchise history. Really, what's left? The jerseys?

"Aaron miller was a decent defensive defenseman who could barely clear the puck from his own zone let alone score"

You said the Kings sucked the life out of him. Now you say he sucked.

Where did I ever say he sucked? Come on quisp, you're better than that.

Okay, Quisp, you talked me into it. I'm done with LA. But not with hounding you about how horrible they are.

As long as we've established you're "done with LA."

Quisp - the aging smolinski has surpassed his point production of his last 2 kings seasons, every year but last. For Smolinski, 38 points a season was not what he wanted.

quisp

-----------He took a few stabs at us on XM today also.

Said that LA "LOW-BALLED" him at 1.2 million for a 1 year. And said that it wasnt worth taking a bad offer to not make the playoffs. Said he got a good taste of a cup run in Colorado and didnt want to play on a non winning team. Vancuver is where he wanted to be.

So im glad hes gone. ********.----------

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=417986

hate to be the bearer of bad news...

Re:

06-07

Kings - 52 games 16 points
flames 28 games 21 points

I recognize your random posting of stats with no name attached. It's Conroy. Yes, he did better with the Flames that year after the trade. So what?

Re the Aaron Miller thing: it would help I think if you would put quote marks around quotes. It's impossible to tell from your post that it's actually a quote from someone else's post on another board. I didn't hear what Aaron Miller said; only what you said someone else said he said. But I give it to you.

Recap: I like Aaron Miller. I think he is, however, hampered by injuries. For example, did you notice that he's out now for abdominal surgery? You, meanwhile, think he can't pass the puck out of the zone, or some such. I said I never heard him say anything bad about LA. Your "bad news" is just about the offer he got from Lombardi. I don't begrudge him his desire to make as much money as possible and to play in the playoffs. I didn't get any special "anger" out of the paraphase of your quote of the other guy's quote. In any case, we were talking about Miller under Dave Taylor, not under Lombardi. You said he hated it here for the last few (two?) years and wanted out.

I don't know if he "hated" anything. Neither do you. Again, it's your projection.

Quisp
I understand trading Lubo but not crazy about the
return. I think Oilers gave up spare parts to get
a top 20 offensive defenseman which are not exactly
easy to come by. You make good points and time will
tell. It is possible Lubo could be in decline and
this trade could be a steal for DL. It was definitely
a calculated risk by DL.

Quisp
I understand trading Lubo but not crazy about the
return. I think Oilers gave up spare parts to get
a top 20 offensive defenseman which are not exactly
easy to come by. You make good points and time will
tell. It is possible Lubo could be in decline and
this trade could be a steal for DL. It was definitely
a calculated risk by DL.