Goaltenders analysis

I've always said Labarbera will keep you in the games, but he will not steal games for you.

He'd be a good back that shared 30% of the games.

The key to this is that he is not a number 1 in this league and on some teams may be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. As a back up he may be a guy that could step in and win a few games when he gets hot but he has been put in a situation where he really doesn't fit at this level. That is why there is so much debate.

Seriously... Labs is 30th in the league as far as #1 goaltenders go. Only like 5 other teams would consider him for a backup job. Why settle for last place? He is a backup goaltender, that is his role. We need to be trying others in the position, mainly Ersberg. He had more success at the end of last season than Labs had his entire career.

Granted, Labs has been better this season. I still see him too flat footed too often. Rebounds rebounds rebounds (though he guides them to better spots than he used to) and mostly his slow shuffle from post too post is too much to take. He'd be a solid back-up. I just want Ersberg to get a start already. I think Labs is only like one of a couple of goalies to start every game so far... Labs doesn't belong in a category like that.

Labs has inflated sv% because he gives up so many damn rebounds. It also hurts our team GA because those are harder plays to defend. He needs to catch and hold the puck. Rich is dead on when he says Labs is a place holder.

I just can't figure out why they refuse to give Ersberg a chance..

Yes, Labs has been good, but doesen't have potential. I get the need for stability in the team at this stage, I'm guessing that might be why he's starting so much. Hopefully Ersberg will get more and more playtime as we get further into the season, and the youngsters get more comfortable

Hate to say it but agree. Barbs is only mediocre and that's becoming more and more clear. Very astute comment by Pete. He is good some games and terrible others, but he rarely steals a game for the team with sick, brilliant saves. I am also frustrated the Ersberg has not had his own game in net, and think perhaps TM should platoon the goalies, therein creating more competition and commitment to excellence. Let them fight it out and that will produce better results. Last year there was a period in which Barbs was the first star game after game and really excelled. So, he has it in him somewhere. But, he is simply inconsistent and very frustrating to watch. It's scary watching him "protect" a lead. Terrible. Carey Price is a good model for Bernier and the Kings. They should just stick Bernier in there and declare him ready. He'll have some bad games, but if he's as good as they say, the cream will rise to the top. I would certainly rather have Price than Barbs in net now.

LaBarbera's angles and positioning suck. He makes saves mainly because he's big, but he doesn't get in the right positions to utilize the size, plus he commits and flops around all over the place, which takes the size away. The reason he has to make some "highlight reel" saves is because he was taking a bad angle to begin with, causing him to flop or dive over to where he should have been in the first place. A good goaltender would just deflect many of those shots with routine positioning...

Who will Jonathan B learn from?

Ziggy> Dead on about the rebounds. Every goalie will let in a good shot here and there, but please just control the rebounds. I can only imagine how the team in front of him feels when they play good defense, only to watch the puck go in on a rebound any goalie in juniors would be able to control. You could see the defense's confidence grow last year in front of Ersberg the sponge, simply because they knew they would be rewarded for their solid defense and not have the goalie give up goals on bad rebounds. As for those of you who say Ersberg hasn't shown much in his time on the ice this year. He's like a long reliever in baseball. How motivated would you get when you're down 10-0 whenever you're given a chance?

This is starting to remind me of the election. We had Cloutier. Erik brings change, JLB more of LOLSame...

Labs is a career backup and that's about it. He'll never steal a game for the Kings. The last two goals last night weren't all his fault but they were the same shot, same side. His blocker was there but not in the right spot. If he could have just gotten a piece of it, it wouldn't have gone in. Osgood made a really good save on Harrold's shot and he didn't even see it. There was a big screen in front but he just "felt" the shot and made the pad save. Labs doesn't seem to have that anticipation of where the shots are going. And like what Jim Fox said about save percentages, it doesn't mean very much, it's the big saves at the crucial moments that Labs doesn't do all the time. So it's not his fault, it's just the fact that he's just an average goalie.

Labarbera has worn out his welcome with the fans. He's been around since the lockout. Him and Cloutier, especially Cloutier, have left a bad taste in our mouths. He has no future with this club. Start ERSBERG. Don't be afraid to callup QUICK and BERNIER (after he earns it).

I wanted to repost this here because I really feel the Staples Center is guilty of negligence:

Does somebody have to die before the Staples Staff does something about the Boards/Glass issues? 4 Straight games/4 broken windows. I swear some lady almost got decapitated by a broken piece of plexiglass last night. Gauthier and Kopecky(?) were lucky not to have been seriously injured or killed. Awful. Awful. Awful.

The Rinkside View regularly showed how many Red jerseys there were in the stands. I'm no advocate of Hooliganism, but shouldn't King's fans and management do something to stop this in OUR BUILDING?
The bandwagoners were out in full force last night (there's no way there are that many people from Detroit).
They need to be silenced and forced to show a little respect for the King's players. Management should be involved in this. In europe supporters are segregated within the stands. I don't think OUR home ice, as horrible as that ice may be, should be a place where Detroit Bandwagonners feel comfortable wearing Red and cheering on the Redwings.
Wearing red to that game should not be allowed unless there's an Away Supporters section.

Let's at least try and get Staples to do something about the unacceptable glass situation. Shitty ice is one thing, death or gore because of inadequate facilities is another.

What did Lombardi call them, "Bridge players"?

Maybe this is all part of Terry Murray's master scheme. Some demented way to train the players in front of JLB. Play good defense and clear the zone, or you will lose. That guy behind you is about as good as an empty net...

On the bright side, even if Ersberg ONLY plays when the Kings are down 3-0, he'll still get A LOT of playing time if the guy in front of him is LaBarbera the whole year.

cristobal-

funny you mention it...

the redwing band wagoners were out in full force last night and it sucked.

they even got a 'let's go redwings' chant going loud enough to be easily heard throughout all of staples center after they scored their first goal...

embarrassing.

i used to love when i would go to ducks games at the pond and there would always be more kings fans than ducks fans. we would be out cheering and out jeering them easily and consistently... those were the days.

i also remember thinking 'there's no way would ducks fans would have the marbles to come to LA and do this.'... times have changed...yes indeed.

mmm Rich who gives a flying F about AHL stats (you bring it up every time you mention how well Ersberg played at the end of last season)...just look at LaBarbera's AHL totals! If it was any measure of how one would do in the NHL, Jason would have a couple Vezina trophies.

Have to agree with you John. I can't stand the "we don't know how Ersberg will do over a season argument". We do know how Labs will do, he will be wildly up and down. WE KNOW THAT! He's shown the same exact thing on the ice over the last 3 seasons. Ersberg has only shown that he's good, we haven't seen the down side, only the up, and the only way we know if there is a down side or when it will show up, is the play him. He's played in two of the King's worst games this season. TM even admits that Ersberg was put in because the team was playing bad. He went in cold twice, did just fine once, and so-so (no worse than Labs) in the other. I will be extremely dissapointed if Ersberg doesn't get a start in the next two games. Not to start him once in the first 10 is insane when Jason Labarbera is your # 1. If it's Nabakov then fine, I'd play him as often as he could handle, but even Nabakov has sat out two games.

Why doesn't the NHL network have a game on every chance they get? I love their hightlights, but give us more games. Basically, if there is a game in progress, show it. It's the NHL network.

Rich - How about a daily thread with just the date for random thoughts? Come to think of it, how about a suggestion box for random suggestions?

Why does the NHL support Commercial Timeouts? I hate them. I know it's money, but shouldn't the TRUE flow of the game come first? The players certainly don't need the rest as they get a full half hour of intermission. That's enough for 3 naps.

Okay, random suggestion--how about a home page link on the "thank you for your comment page"?

Honestly...LaBarbera is tied for 14th in wins and goals against right now. He is decent. Just like our team. He has had some rough spots but I completely support Terry Murray's decision to start with Barbs. Why not give the guy a chance. I think we really only lost one game that most would attribute to him. Other than that you can look at all of the other players' mistakes for someone to blame. We have a young team and there will be mistakes. I wish everyone would just try to put their support behind Barbs for a while. It is always the goalie's fault! Osgood has statistics that are worse and the Red Wings won the cup last year anyway. I am quite sure this is a make it or break it time for Barbs. I believe Murray is giving him the best support and ultimate support to see how he responds. After it all plays out he will have improved to the point of finally being a true number one or (as many of you believe) he will not, which will lead to that chance being given to Ersberg or Bernier.

Having said all that, I do think Ersberg should be started in all back to back games and be ready to jump in if Barbs starts going downhill fast.

Does anybody remember Kelly Hrudey? He had a GAA of 3.86 in 1992-1993. LaBarbera is at 2.86 now and he doesn't have Gretzky, Robitaille, Sandstrom, Granato, Kurri, Blake, Zhitnik, Coffey, etc...in front of him.

I love the way it is going so far. Let's just see how it plays out.

I've got to say this: new season, new coach, new players, 15 players age 26 and under and eight games in a 3-4-1 record. Not bad. Let's stop all the second guessing and panic and give this team a chance. As far as Brownie and Kopi, after their performance last year, I think the opponents are watching them a little closer now but they will compensate and produce. It seems to me that TM is spreading his talent across his first three lines in order to get three good lines for even strength play. Good thinking as far as I'm concerned because the good teams in the league have at least three good lines. So let's sit back, relax and watch what happens.

Excellent companion piece to your player evaluations: The Kings System Audit on Hockey's Future.

I think Terry Murray knows exactly what he is doing for the team by leaving Labarbera in goal game after game. If the players knew that they had an excellent backstop willing and able to steal games for them back there Murray would be much harder pressed to get them to execute/learn the new defensive system as well as they have been. As it is, if they execute well Labarbera is just good enough to maintain a win without letting the players shed their nervousness about the defensive coverage. MY guess is when Murray sees the consistency he wants from the team defensively (or if they star losing too much for morale) he'll start looking for a bit more competition from the goalies. Just my take...

Jet - the link to the home page is the "Inside the Kings with Rich Hammond" banner at the top of the page. hope that helps.

John said:
mmm Rich who gives a flying F about AHL stats (you bring it up every time you mention how well Ersberg played at the end of last season)...just look at LaBarbera's AHL totals! If it was any measure of how one would do in the NHL, Jason would have a couple Vezina trophies.

I'll back up Rich on this one...Forget whether AHL stats count for something or not...the fact is Kings scouts were watching this guy in Manchester and also the coaching staff there as well...they weren't impressed with his play while he was down there. That doesn't mean he's no good, but he wasn't playing well.
He gets called up to the Kings and has a great stretch of games. How do we know that his stretch wasn't an abberation...the same as Barbs stretches of dominance wasn't an abberation? We don't know. Let's not just assume since he played a great 2 months that this translates to 82 game dominance.
I'll trust the coaching staff on their decision on who plays goal..My feeling is that they are playing Barbs to try and increase his value as a trade chip. The future in goal for the Kings does not appear on the roster as of yet...whether that's Zatkoff, Bernier, or Quick.

I've been typing till I'm blue in the fingers about LaBarbara not being an NHL #1, or even a #2, and NOW you're all agreeing? Too many rebounds. Too many soft goals. He wouldn't be starting in Manchester right now. Why is he starting here?

Other then the Nashville game, the Kings have out played every one of their opponents. They should at worst be 5-3-0. LaBarbara gave up soft goals in both San Jose games. He's already been pulled twice and we've only played 8 games. That's 25% guys! Why are we punishing our clearly improved defense with poor goaltending when we're almost certain we have better options we could be using?

By game 25, when the Kings are 7-15-3, Ersberg will be the #1 goalie for the remainder of the season.

PaulfromOxnard - do you play goalie? i don't understand why a "fan" feels the need to criticize the goalie ALL the time. Labs just kept the Kings in the game against Detroit and was better than Osgood. He's also outplayed Ward and Giguere this year. How about a little respect for YOUR players? Garon, Huet, Legace, Defoe, Healy, Fuhr, Hrudey. All these guys got shipped out because they didn't rate in LA but they seem to do fine when they get somewhere else. Labs may never win a Cup but he's an adequate NHL netminder who gets ZERO support from his own team's fans. What must it be like for a guy who's gifted at playing goalie to hear the lack of respect shown by his own fans IN CALIFORNIA?
If the Kings were to trade Labs and he did well with another team it would be another shower of Egg on the Face. Let the guy play his game, support him, and quit blaming him because the team is young, mistake prone, and rebuilding. Imagine how he might be playing if the crowd adored him like they do Doughty.

Cristobal: I'd love him.....if he played well. How you can you so blindly support him when the evidence is plain that he's not an NHL caliber goalie?

And I'm sorry? You're really going to say that Garon (who's already been benched in Edmonton), Legace (who was a career backup in Detroit and has only been a starter by default in St. Louis), and Dafoe (who has a career 171-170-56 record) are proof that LaBarbara is an NHL #1 goalie? Yes, the Kings gave up on Huet too quickly, but not the rest of them. And what about the dozens of other goalies who have played for the Kings over the years? Yukata Fukufuji? Barry Brust? Stephane Fiset? Steve Passmore? Robb Stauber? Jamie Storr? What NHL teams do these guys start for?

Don't come after me for wanting a good goalie. Get onboard with the rest of the Kings fans and demand better of this organization. I know I'm sick of settling for garbage.

Paul - Garon was benched after the team was shutout twice. Defoe went to Boston and I think to an all-star game. Fiset was a decent goalie on a crap team. Stauber was never looked to as a no. 1. Brust got 2 seconds of a chance.

Labs, as I just pointed out, has played well this year. Your kidding yourself if you think your blame makes it otherwise. When the team is playing without mistakes, he keeps them in the game.

Chill out on the chatter and support your players and your goalkeepers and reserve criticism for REAL mistakes, not your dreams of 0 GAA. As we saw with Fuhr, if the team is not solid, one of the best netminders of all time can't help.