Off the ice

I agree with Marty's comments.

My insticts tell me that unless POS starts playing more of an offensive role, he will ask for a trade.
I don't think DL traded an established player like Pavol Demitra for a 47 goal scorer, only to have this know nothing coach put that player on the 4th line (with a 7th D-Man).

This coach wouldn't know pure talant if he saw one. If he continues to bury POS in the 4th line, POS will defeinitely ask for a trade. To move to a team with a coach who knows what he's doing. And that'l piss off DL. With all his pathetic trades, the one good player he did receive wants out. IF he gets traded to the Eastern conferenve, he'll be a 40 goal scorer. TM needs to stop playing favortism. Two wins against two bad teams, does not indicate an effective coach.

Can anybody justify TM's move.

47 Goal Scorer? in the NHL? Nice try Anthony in using an AHL stat to further your argument. Denis Hamel scored 56 that same year for Binghamton if you want to start throwing AHL stats around as a way to throw another childish insult towards TM.
"With all his pathetic trades, the one good player he did receive wants out"
And you have this on good authority?

You know I was going to answer your last question about justifying TM's move but figured why bother? You use pointless facts, ridiculous comments, and childish namecalling as your argument so it's not worth it.

Anthony.

You are missing the point. TM wants these players to become team players first. This team for the longest time have been individual players playing only for themselves. This is a lesson for these guys to learn to play for the team instead of playing for their points. If POS can't recognize that fact. Then he is a selfish player and has no part being on this TEAM. I can understand very clearly what TM is doing. And this way management can identify players and their characters easily. So POS should just shut up and become a member of this team, period.

Roger

What time is practoce tomorrow?

i dont think a lot of fans really understand what it means to be part of a team. if you arent willing to be a part of the team, playing the role you are given, you shouldnt be on the team

hockey is a sport based on team play, not the play of the indivudual

Rich - Any chance you can get a 1-on-1 with Avery this week to discuss his time with the Kings?

It would be interesting to get his take on how things went. Might be old news, but there are still plenty of us who appreciate his talent along with the antics.

Hope you can make it happen.

Wow Anthony, your instincts tell you he'll ask for a trade? Your instincts SCREAM Patrick O'Sullivan SELFISH ME TYPE player. You think Fedorov asked the wings for a trade when he was demoted to a defensive roll under Scottie Bowman? Until Sully get the team concept, instead of the me first concept, he'll continue to play right where he belongs.

Who says POS does not get his roll. He seems pretty happy to me Playing with Boyle. And Harrold has stepped up and done well for playing out of position. If POS is selfish and wants out get rid of him. Players like that are not needed, we can spend that money to resign players like Frolov, who no one said was complaining when he was put into a checking roll to start the season.

I believe that OSullivan responded to the move by being named the #1 star in the next game..The Coach does things to get the most out of his players on both ends of the rink...Kinda like what Jackson does for the Lakers....Their is more to coaching than setting up the lineups...Everyone agrees that the team as a whole is doing better than expected...Growth is what these kids need....On Both sides of the rink!!!!!

Anthony,

When you've coached 750 games in the NHL, I'll trust your instincts as much as I trust Terry Murray's. On top of that, I'm sure he can recognize talent more than the average hockey fan that visits this site. Why don't you let him do his job and you do yours.

Two losses against ineffective teams makes an ineffective coach then? At least he won those two. It's amazing how poor your attitude toward the Kings is. Can't even be happy when they win the games they should.

Maybe you should evaluate your reasons for being negative all the time - you might live longer. We'd all live longer if we could be more positive.

Play Sully in his capacity or he is going to leave.Who in his right mind would pay aplayer 4 mil. this year on the 4th line.Stop the B.S. he is an offensive player his whole career,and will remain one .Use him or lose him.

What kind of manager pays an offensive player 4mil. to play on the 4th line? Answer; A manager that signed Zeus for 16 mil over 4,McCauley and Clouthier big dollar buy outs.Definately not convinced that Lombardi or TM know what they are doing,their track record certainly doesn't.

well anthony, i can justify almost every move by tm. my only criticism of murray has been his management of the goalies. i think he stuck with jason way too long. but, i feel he did this simply because he named him his #1 during camp..... camp.... something that sully failed to show up for. something he felt was not important enough to attend by not signing his multi-million $$$ contract. i manage 14 employees. when someone does something out of policy they are disciplined for it. in sports, sitting a guy or making him skate on the less than sexy line is their punishment. let sully earn his way back up top. however, the team is playing well. i am team first, player second. what is best for the team is best for me. i am an l.a. kings fan not an l.a. sully fan. i root for sully like every other player because i want the kings to win.

i won't even waste my breath on your case that tm can't see talent. like brent said - 750 games coached. trips to the conf finals and the big dance. yah, that's pretty poor? attorneys must be like sith lords. the dark side gives you strength. more power to you man.

jedi -

I really don't think there's more than meets the eye here. Players get moved from line to line all the time. Fans like to turn everything into a soap opera, but the truth is usually far more mundane. Fretting about POS being on the fourth line is extra silly because POS/Boyle is clearly a top-six forward combination. I'm quite sure that Murray looks at forward lines in the Scotty Bowman style, in terms of pairs (not trios) of forwards. Those pairs are Kopitar/Brown, Handzus/Simmonds, Stoll/Moller and -- now -- POS/Boyle. And it's not like the fourth line is getting 5 minutes a game. When Purcell or Lewis are ready, one of them can play with POS/Boyle and the "fourth" line could end up our best line. Think about it; how the hell do you match lines against that?

seriously, the moaning about Sully on the 4th line is insane. He had 15 minutes of ice time on the "fourth line" the other night, Kopitar had 19 on the first. He's not missing a beat and he's still a very positive contributor. Anthony, you're saying he's going to request a trade less than a week after Rich was saying how Sully seemed proud of the way his line played? Are you out of your mind?

regardless of what line POS is on, he is still getting "top 6" minutes.

vs FL he ranked 4th among forwards in TOI.
vs STL he ranked 5th among forwards in TOI.

so why all this worry about POS playing 4th line? worry when he's playing under 10 mins and ivanans is on the 1st PP unit.

Wow, do you people have no clue about Sully. The reason he didn't sign right away wasn't his fault it was his agents. He wasnt even around for most of the negotiations, however his agent was holding out hoping for an offer sheet to drive up the price. Everytime Sully was asked he thought they were pretty close to a deal, he always said he just wants to play hockey.
As for being a team player his first call up he didn't do so well, and after being sent down he was told he needed to add defense to his game. He didn't complain or stagnant in the minors, but he did do what was asked. As we saw last season he was used on the pk, because he had focused on his d game. Oh, and lets not forget how well he played with Kopitar and Brown.
All of you are so quick to make him out to be some selfish player when you don't even know half the story.

@ Baumgartner22: Amen.

POS played 16minutes last game and while we can talk about the people he's playing with, he's being given the chance to carry a line which one could argue gives him more responsibility....or at least in the near term challenges him more from a team perspective.

I'm not going to go into whether POS is on the team concept or not (I got tired of those convos last year when there were nightly character assassinations of Cammy), frankly I don't know. But I also don't like making up random drama for no reason. (That's why we're playing against Avery this week and he's not playing with us)

O'Sullivans' pride won't put up with the staff playing games and screwing with him.He will want a trade to a team that will utilize his offensive skill not a team that uses his checking and ability to play with anyone and make them better experiments because of their lack of .As you will see as soon as this team plays better than average teams again they will lose through their inability to score.Answer POS in the top 6 offensive role and that includes PP time.

Anthony you remind me of the kid in 5th grade who's all pissed off because the coach dropped him from the cleanup spot to batting 8th..and moved him from SS to LF....as if LF and the 8th spot are meaningless positions.
Every spot in a lineup has significance. Nobody in the NHL is there on charity. Whether you're the 4th line winger or 1st line guy, you have a job to do and you do it with pride.
The way TM has run this team, he has put less importance on the # line you're on. His checking line gets more ice time than the 2nd unit. The way the Sully line has played the last couple of games, it gives the Kings a more balanced scoring attack..especially with Kopitar and Brown picking up their play.
For people to insinuate that Sully is unhappy is ridiculous. Some rumor pops up on the blog.(Marty) that Toronto has interest in Sully if he has interest in them. Hello? He's not a free agent. Nobody gives a sh** whether he's interested or not about being traded to certain teams. I don't believe he has a no trade clause...besides the fact that I highly doubt any of it is true.
Marty, I'd be interested in knowing where you got this info...I'll also wait to hear what the agents have to say today..I just won't be holding my breath for it.

NYkingsfan - While I understand your frustration, we have to give Marty a chance. If a trade request comes through today, then we can give him kudos for his insight. If the request does not come through then it is unlikely he will ever post here again.

Very easy Anthony.

POS is playing out of control right now, and is not doing the things that got him first line minutes last season. He is all over the place chasing the puck, getting himself out of position left and right.

Very simple. All the hustle and skating in the world does you nothing if there is no purpose behind it. Right now, he doesn't mean much much more, and isn't doing anything more than what John Zeiler brings.

Now...how does he get those first line minutes? PLAY YOUR POSITION. Stop running all over the place trying to make a big hit or playing with the puck in your own zone.

By the way...in case you have not noticed, this know nothing coach has already improved this TEAM, yes TEAM ten-fold. The defense has improved dramatically, and this TEAM...you know, what really matters, the TEAM, TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM...did I mention TEAM? The team has already shown far more improvement in a handful of games than they did under the previous coaching staff in 2 years.

Hockey is not an individual sport, it's a TEAM game. Yzerman didn't win a cup until he started PLAYING DEFENSE. Modano barely made the playoffs, until he started PLAYING DEFENSE. Sakic played for one of the worst teams in the NHL until he started PLAYING DEFENSE...seeing a theme here Anthony?

Certain offensive players are struggling to find that balance right now...they will be fine. It's called learning, growing up.

Nykingsfan, I was wondering when you'd jump in...How the hell ya been anyway?

Baumgartner22 - Well said, same for Nick.

I honestly don't get the rift between a minority of you and Sully. It's not like he isn't getting any playing time, he is. TM is utilizing the lines like no other coach prior. This team isn't great and we still have a long ways to go. But he is doing something that the others haven't been able to do, spread the talent out amongst all the lines. Remember the uproar a week or so ago when Fro was demoted to the 3rd line? He's got 5 goals already and is playing very well.

In the past, particularly last year, we had one strong line and that was it. Since teams would stack a physical line against them almost every game, the results were, we'll 30th place (oops, I mean 29th) in the league. None of us want to see that happen again. This team, as young as they are has talent that needs to be developed. At the same time, TM is spreading that young talent around, shoot even Ivanans isn't playing 4th anymore. It's far more balanced and more difficult to defend against. It gives the Kings more options. Also, the 4th line isn't exactly a "4th" line or checking line anymore. All the lines are getting equal ice time pretty much. This my friends keeps our young bucks rested going into the 3rd period and provides energy to our top players when its needed most, usually late in a game either holding on to a slim lead (we're not exactly scoring in bunches) or trying to get a tying goal, something this team can do with its snipers, win in the last minute of a game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Sully fan, he's one of my favorite players. But if you think back, sometimes Sully has gotten himself into a mental funk. It happened in Minnesota which is why the Wild gave up on him and traded him to LA. It also happened his first year with LA when he got sent down to Manchester. The fact is, the holdout hurt Sully and he's been playing catch-up ever since. You couldn't expect Sully to come right into LA and be game ready after having missed camp. Bad move. It wasn't his fault, my guess some poor advise from his agent. Remember, the Kings were working to sign him throughout most of the 2nd half of last season and Sully was holding out for more money and a short term contract. The Kings were trying to sign him long team and it carried over into the summer. LA couldn't bring him into camp as he was unsigned, DL left him out of camp figuring it would help negotiations and limit their liability (just a guess but I'm pretty close on that one). In anycase, he got signed. Now the rest is up to him. He's certainly one of the top forwards on the team and will be there in the end. However, we've got a lot of young forwards who have shown they can and want to play at this level. It's time for the real POS to show us what he has.

On a side note, didn't you all just love Doughty's goal against the Blues? Swoops in across the blueline alone and goes top shelf. I know Legace was pissed because he never saw it coming. Damn this kid can play. He reads the play and the ice like no one I've ever seen and he's only 18. This kid has some vision; he's physical, he can pass, he can shoot and he's rarely out of position. He's also a +6, not bad for an 18 year old rookie, not bad at all.

Onward to the Stars, I'd like to see a sweep, anyone else?

Go Kings!

Whats's up Moondoggie

I agree with you completely, but now you've done it...here come the people who over the summer who were blaming DL in the Sully mess.
You just wanted to hear from Anthony again, ha? LOL

I agree on the Doughty shot. That was a blast. I would have liked to have seen it from the normal angle3. Rinkside view felt like I was watching it from deep inside the Kings defensive zone.

nykingsfan.
I don't mind too much that he's playing on the 4th line with a D-Man. But taking him off the power play unit is a bit too much. We're not talking about Zeiler or Ivanans here. A player with POS's skill needs to play more in offensive situations.
Marty is right. TM is just screwing with his head. Personally, I haven't seen any selfishness. Have you?

Selfish example 1:
the Kings are trying to get the puck out of the zone, I believe O'Donnell, who is deep in the zone, tries to pass the puck to Sully who's waiting inside the blueline. All Sully has to is get the puck and tap it across the line to relive the pressure. Instead, he skates behind the blueline to anticipate a pass and a possible breakaway(were up 3-1 by the way). What happens, the st.louis forward steps in, picks off the pass at the spot where Sully SHOULD HAVE BEEN and creates a scoring chance.
Sully was thinking offense for himself, not preventing the other team from getting the puck back.

I'm sure this was not overlooked by Murray.Hell, even Jim Fox said it was the wrong thing to do.