FINAL: Buffalo 5, Kings 0

I have a feeling that I’m not going to need to say much about today’s game, so here’s the Associated Press story for you to chew on…

—–

BUFFALO, N.Y. — Ryan Miller made 40 saves for his third shutout of the season and 10th of his career, and Derek Roy had a goal and two assists in the Buffalo Sabres’ 5-0 victory over the Los Angeles Kings on Friday night.

Miller was solid throughout the game, especially in the first two periods when Los Angeles outshot Buffalo 25-13.

Drew Stafford had a goal and assist, and Adam Mair, Clarke MacArthur and Matt Ellis also scored to help the Sabres (15-13-3) snap a two-game home losing streak at home. Buffalo improved to 5-2 in its last seven.

Jason LaBarbera made 10 saves in a little over two periods of action, and dropped to 0-2-2 in his last four starts. He was replaced by Jonathan Quick after Stafford made it 4-0 just 3 minutes into the third period with a power-play goal.

Quick allowed a goal on eight shots in relief.

The Kings have lost three straight to drop to 13-13-6.

The Sabres were without Paul Gaustad (upper body), captain Craig Rivet (shoulder) and rookie forward Nathan Gerbe (upper body).

Buffalo forward Patrick Kaleta missed almost half the game when he was dropped by a punch to the face by Los Angeles defenseman Denis Gauthier after Gauthier missed hitting Kaleta in the Kings’ right corner. Gauthier received a double-minor for roughing, while Kaleta stayed on the ice face-first for about 10 seconds.

Kaleta returned to the lineup Wednesday night against New Jersey after missing seven games because of a head and neck injury.

Stafford chased LaBarbera with a backhander from the slot for his eighth of the season.

Roy was credited with his 10th of the season with just under 4 minutes left in the first period. From behind the goal line, Roy sent the puck to the front of the net, but his attempt hit off the back of LaBarbera’s leg. As the puck appeared to be heading into the net, defenseman Kyle Quincey batted it out of the air, but it again went off LaBarbera’s leg before going in.

Mair made it 2-0 2 1/2 minutes into the second period with his fourth, banging home a loose puck in the crease after Chris Butler’s wrist shot from the blue line squirted through LaBarbera’s legs.

Buffalo pushed its lead to 3-0 when MacArthur redirected Stafford’s pass in front of the net for his seventh of the season at 6:56.

Ellis capped the scoring with his first with 5:27 left in regulation.

Game notes
Butler was making his NHL debut after the Sabres recalled him from Portland of the AHL on Thursday. … Roy extended his points streak to eight games. … The Kings began a three-game road trip. … About a foot of fell on the city earlier in the day, but the arena was still about 90 percent full. … The Sabres have won three in a row and eight of the last nine against the Kings on home ice. … Los Angeles went 0-for-1 on the power play after converting on 32.3 percent of their man-advantage opportunities over the previous eight games.

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  • EAT THE RICH

    MURRAY: I don’t know if you’re ready to play in this league, Kid. Go get ‘em.
    QUICK: Thanks, coach. (aside) What a motivator.

  • Tom Hughes

    Quick’s helmet is rad. Let’s sign Labarbara to a 100 year $100,000,000 deal.

  • Tom Hughes

    (while he’s still hot)

  • http://Ethman Ethman

    wow, the kings can’t even buy themselves a break right now (unless you’re counting broken sticks). except for one obvious defensive breakdown the team played well again, unfortunately every bounce went against them. as if to rub it in our faces we get see what happens when a team gets extraordinary goaltending (miller) versus what Labs has been giving the team as of late. the kings were all over the puck tonight creating chances and just unable to finish. and what a great penalty kill on gauthier’s penalty.

    once this team gets some superior goaltending on a regular basis i think things will really look good. hopefully quick will get the start tomorrow.

  • Bill

    The good feelings I had for this season were dashed the other night when Ersberg went down with an injury. Tonight’s game is a perfect example of why. I can’t wait for the day when Jason is no longer a King. Unfortunately the team will suffer while he’s still here and still playing, thanks to Terry Murray.

  • gmo

    again LABS allows so many goals in just a few shots? and this is our number one goalie? i do understand that tonight all the bounces went sabres way……but come on LABS win one on ur own for the team………..i guess Miller is just lucky…oh wait you have to be good to be lucky……..LABS just plain stinks

  • 4thlinechecker

    They played hard, but unfortunatley couldnt score…….. They are gonna stop playing so hard if barbs continues to start…. I’ve tried defending him and being objective, but I am on the bandwagon of barbs bashing.I cant take it anymore.

  • voice of reason

    Let me try to follow this here.

    The Kings fail to score a single goal, and yet the goaltending is to blame. Wow.

    LaBarbara is not a good goalie, nor is he the worst goalie in the NHL. If you can’t score, you can’t win.

    Bad game, turn the page and try to battle against Detroit.

    Oh, and spare me any nonsense about the Kings having lost all confidence in LaBarbara when he lets in the first goal of the game. First of all, his own defenseman put the puck into the net. Secondly, none of you know if the Kings lack confidence in LaBarbara. And lastly, these are professional athletes so they aren’t going to dog it thinking their goalie sucks.

    Ok, so now would anybody like to introduce some evidence to back up their claims that LaBarbara is costing the Kings games?

  • Quisp

    Quick has to start tomorrow. I mean, really. I don’t even think TM is on JLB’s side; he’s just making do.

    The bottom line is, if you think the Kings are not going to make the playoffs this year, then go with the kids, play Quick and Bernier, waive LaBarbera. But if you think the Kings have a chance at making the playoffs, it’s just the opposite: waive Labarbera, play Quick and Bernier, go with the kids.

  • Bruce

    voice of reason: Sure the team’s not going to win when they don’t score goals, but you can’t go all-out on offense when your goalie doesn’t make even what should be considered routine saves. Why was LaBarbera in a position where Derek Roy could be behind the net and bank the puck off of any part of Jason? Because he’s slow, unaware, and puck control isn’t good enough. Quincey tried to come in and make the save after Roy used Barbs as a backboard. If Barbs was in proper position, he puck never would’ve ended up in the crease behind him. And where was Barbs when the 3rd goal went in? Not even in the crease. A team is only as good as its weakest player. Unfortunately for the Kings, that player happens to be the LaBarbera…

  • Deano Lombardo

    Why doesnt TM just pull one of the forwards and play with (2) Goalies??

  • Anonymous

    J.Quick better get the start tomorrow. He’s the better goalie. Murray is an idiot if he continues this joke..

  • Roger

    I think TM is kicking himself for deciding to go with Labs. It’s obvious the team as a whole has completely lost confidence playing with Labs, they play nervous in front of Labs, unsure if the next shot is a goal or not. No team can play with this problem hanging over their heads. Iceberg gave that kind of confidence. The team played loose in front of him. Not worrying about turnovers or quality chances, they had confidence that Iceberg can stop them. This is the kind of game were goaltending is either going to lose games for you or win them. Unfortunately the kings lost. My question to all is, how long can this team play solid hockey and at the end show nothing for it? DL and TM have to decide once and for all to sink or swim with the kids. The philosophy of bringing players along slowly time is over. Let the kids play.

    Roger

  • Dolly

    I agree with “The voice of reason.” Our goaltending sucked, LaBarbara lost all confidence and he lost his game, bad bounces went against us, good bounces went their way, their defense saves a goal for them when Miller is way out of position, our defense…well, scores a goal off our goalie :(

    The bottom line is that we have to SCORE TO WIN. Our chances are almost always hitting the goalie in good position. Not many great rebound shots or tic-tac-toe plays cross ice passes…we make other goalies look good getting 40 save shutouts…but the quality of the scoring chances is lacking. Brownie is second in the NHL in shots but Frolov is the only King in the top 30 (he is ranked 30 with 13 goals) I believe the talent is there. Is it the focus on defense taking the focus off of scoring goals with hard to beat scoring chances?

    Hopefully this cemented a chance to try Quick as starter. Why not? At least he would have a better excuse to suck. And we’d all be more forgiving right? I am in whoever starts and I will cheer for them no matter what.

  • Tom Hughes

    voice of reason: you actually think labarbera is a legitamate NHL goalie and the rest of us are smoking crack? the kings had a plethora of chances and miller came up huge for the sabres, but at least the pressure was there, we just couldn’t catch anything. our D biffed it a couple times but LOLbarbara (thats one of my fav nicknames) took us out of the game fo sure.

  • 4thlinechecker

    Voice of reason:
    I have been fighting the fight, saying that everyone was overreacting about the goaltending situation, after all we got 2 points against 2 of the best teams in the league. Yes, today we would have lost no matter what because we didnt score, and we got a few bad bounces. Today my thoughts changed. Every time the ball is in his hands, he fails to run with it. How does he hurt the team? Well first off he fails to make a clutch save at an important time in the game, like most top goaltenders do. Secondly, he does not look confident and has been giving up to many rebounds, “professional” athletes can see that better then we can. He blames his D-men like he did to Doughty against NY. Lets face it, the team had no faith in him last season, and it showed. He has been given several opportunities to “take the number one spot”, and he cant handle the pressure, he buckles. He can be good like he was against columbus, but he cant do it under pressure…… Let me ask you, if you were a player and you consistently only gave up 25 shots a game, yet you lose regularly with that particular keeper, how long would you stay confident ?????

  • anthony

    Quick needs to start tomorrow.
    I don’t think the players have any confidence in Barbi.

    I love the Kings, but I must say that I hate watching them play sometimes.
    I’d rather watch the traffic on the 405.

  • Anonymous

    VOR –

    His defensman [KQ] was put into that position because he didn’t get his slow ass back to ‘hug’ the post allowing Roy to bank it off of his back and drop right in front of the goal line. unfortunately, when KQ tried to clear it quickly, he too put it off of LaSlobra and into our own net.

    if we had lost by a goal or two, i would have said we got beat by a really hot goaltender.

    you’re right we need to score more goals than we have been. however, tonight i think Ryan Miller did an outstanding job and Babs played poorly…again.

    i don’t want Babs to suck… but you know what, he does.

  • Kings4K3

    Well Voice of Reason, while your assessment of the game might be considered the non-partisan approach, I still beg to differ. First of all, this was the first time the Kings have been held off the scoreboard in a few games, yet even when they do score for JLB, he can’t seem to hold onto the lead, even at home be it. Secondly, the Kings once again dominated the first period and, just as in the past two games, the opposing team’s goalie made the saves his team needed, so timing is a big issue here. Giving up the first goal of the game is never good, but when you’re on the road it becomes that much more of a burden because now you’ve let the crowd get into it even after they watched their team get outplayed and out-shot by a wide margin. Now, the other team suddenly has confidence because they see that their goalie has got their backs, and their offense begins to surge. Next thing you know it the score is four zip and all the momentum belongs to the home team.

    This is why JLB has cost the team games. He is unable to make the timely saves, the saves that change or stem the tide of momentum in a game. So yea, maybe the first one is a bad bounce goal, but then after that you’ve got to look for your goalie to make some sort of save that will stem the other team’s confidence from growing, and that just isn’t happening with JLB. Lastly, yes these guys may be professionals and make millions, but they’re still humans. To think that they privately don’t have an opinion or two about JLB, good or bad, or to think that this can’t affect a guy’s play is just being downright naive.

  • JDM

    voice of reason,

    at this point I am aready to contend that labs is indeed the single worst, regularly starting goaltending in the entire league.

  • Quisp

    Voice of Reason:

    v. Buffalo — 10 saves, 4 goals.
    v. NYR — first goal, penalty shot bellyflop.
    v. SJS — breakaway goal, SO bellyflops.
    v. Detroit — SO bellyflops
    v. COL (Oct) — 12 saves, 4 goals
    v. COL (Dec) — 20 saves, 6 goals (you know, because he likes a lot of shots!)
    v. VAN — 14 saves, 4 goals

    Give me a break. He’s lousy.

  • JDM

    well played Quisp!

  • pr0cess

    I think we can all see the writing on the wall, There just comes a time when its time too part ways.
    Lets just make it happen before it gets bitter and ends like Cloutier. I like Labs he just not the right person for the team anymore i think. You watch the game its just on all there faces, I cant be the only one that sees it?

  • jack handy

    i thought Purcell looked way out of his league tonight.

    anyone else?

    can i start a petition to oust Barbs from his post?

    i wonder how many of you would sign… and if you need a refresher as to why, see Quisp’s post.

    i only wish it were that easy.

  • Quisp

    And the guy is 5-7-4, so I just mentioned 7 out of his 11 losses. I should probably look at the other four games, but I’m too tired. I would just like to point out that — while it is common for fans to blame goalies for losses — it’s not that common for a majority of a team’s losses to actually be the goalie’s fault.

    I agree that you can’t win if you don’t score. But here’s the thing: games around the league often go into the third period 0-0 or 1-0; this is especially common when you’ve got a team that is playing excellent team defense. Such teams (e.g. New Jersey, historically; Minnesota) rely on staying in the game and having a chance to finish, get the bounces etc.. That doesn’t work as well when you play a defensively sound game and go into the third period down 3-0 (and then give up a goal on the first shot).

    Do you think the Kings would have had a better chance of scoring in the third if they went into the third tied 0-0 or down 0-1? Of course. It’s an entirely different game.

    To put it another way, it’s hard to score when there’s no f***ing point.

  • Quisp

    I don’t think Purcell looked out of his league; but I do think he’s still learning the lesson of push-push-pushing, moving the feet, playing on instinct, etc.; he’s probably too nervous still to do that. Give him a few games.

  • voice of reason

    I try to keep things in perspective. That’s just what I do.

    LaBarbara is not good, I think I’ve stated that twice today, but he is not nearly as bad as some of you guys make him out to be.

    I will concede that recently he has played…well about as badly as I can remember him playing. I have a limited perspective, but it certainly appears like his confidence is shot. If that’s the case then he (and the Kings, and us fans) are really in trouble.

    All that being said, he is a capable goaltender. He is in the middle of the pack in terms of GAA and save percentage. Those are FACTS.

    Would I prefer Ersberg in there? Absolutely. I agree with TM deferring to LaBarbara before tonight’s game, but I have no problem with Quick or Bernier getting an extended look during these next two weeks, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see that happen. You guys think Murray is an idiot, I think he is a calm and calculating coach and perfect for a team still learning how to compete in the NHL.

  • neil

    Voice of reason……If Labs is waived do you really think another team will pick him up????

  • jack handy

    quite the opposite; i heart TM.

    i just think JLB has had more than his fair share of opportunities to make this ‘his’ team.

    he has failed in those opportunities.

  • JDM

    Quisp, I said something to the same effect in the last thread… although once again you managed to say it much more eloquently and succicntly ;) .

    voice,

    I don’t think TM is an idiot. I really like at the least 85% of the decisions he’s made, and I think he handles the players extremely well. That is why we see the effort there game after game.

    No, labs was not always THIS bad. He was never great or had the potential to be great, but he was good, and he had the potential to be consistently good. Its shame, because aside from size, he relies purely on talent. He has no fundamentals. Especially with that kind of game, a la Hasek, mentality is all the more important. If his confidence is low, he is NOT a capable NHL goaltender. If he had his head together, he WOULD be capable for the most part.

  • voice of reason

    For those of you who truly believe LaBarbara is as bad as it gets in this league I urge you to check out Chris Osgood, Manny Legace or Chris Mason, Biron or Nittymaki, and Peter Budaj.

    Oh, and if you really want to lose your mind watching hockey, check out a few Toronto games and enjoy the splendor that is Vessa Toskala.

    LaBarbara ain’t that good, but it’s all relative.

  • Bring Back the Shield Jersey

    TM has handled the goalie situation poorly all season starting with over-playing Santa and watching him blow it blow it blow it. Then over-playing Ersberg and then calling him out for a bad game and a dropped puck and not being able to handle that much work. And starting Santa tonight was a mistake: you’ve got back-to-backs with Buffalo being the weaker team. If you think Santa is the stronger goalie, THIS was the game to give to Quick (after questioning his creditals, no less. If I’m Quick there’s a bit of wtf running through my head).

    Now what does TM do tomorrow? He really f-ed himself with this one. He’s making it so that no one has any confidence in either goalie.

    Come to think of it, for all this talk of TM being a good teacher, he really doesn’t seem to know what to do with the youngsters. Screwed with Moulson, then Boyle. Moller’s gone from 2nd line to 4th. Is Purcell on the 1st line or fourth? Is Lewis on the fourth line or 1st? Simmonds & Doughty have been consistently played because their skills fulfill their roles. I question how well Murray is matching players’ abilities with their roles. Take Lewis. You call him up primarily because he’s scoring in the AHL, but then but him on a checking line!? All players are not interchangeable. Scorers can be responsible defensively, but that does not make them checkers, which is what TM is asking of Boyle, Purcel, and Lewis.

    But the biggest one of all is that he doesn’t know what to do with Ersberg. After 1/3 of the season I still don’t think he’s clued into the fact that Ersberg gives the team its best chance. He treated Ersberg the same way as Quick “Well I really don’t know if he’s up to the task.” That’s a serious indictment (and confession) of his inability to evaluate talent.

    And this is what I think of when Anthony brings up TM’s age. Murray Acts old, clinging to the familiar (Calder), the old ways of doing things (gotta have an enforcer [Ivanans] on the ice. We’ve gone basically the whole season where he has failed to have different talent abilites scratched every night, thus allowing him to field a quick team against quick teams, and a Big team against other Big teams. He doesn’t have an active mind. He’s set in his ways and he doesn’t know what to do with kids these days other than say GET OFF MY LAWN!

  • Anonymous

    I totally agree with voice of reason and Osgood is the perfect example, the only difference is that his team can score goals consistently. Osgood has not stolen one game for the Wings and his stats stink.

    All that happens here is you people talk about Labs bad games and Ersberg good games, Labs has two shutouts this year, he has his good games and Ersberg has been pulled early, he has his bad games.

    You just have to realize the kings are a young team that will be decent in the future, and their young goalies in the system will be the future of the team, but they need to grow, not come to the NHL and lose their confidence playing behind a young, learning team.

  • Moondoggie

    Quisp….Good comments.

    Roger, you’re comments are right on too.

    A team plays differently when they have confidence in their backstop. The Kings are a free skating team, very quick and depend on precision passing. The precision game is difficult to perform when you have to worry about whether your goalie can keep the biscuit out of the basket. You end up playing a more cautious, more nervous type of game, not as free spirited or free skating. You can’t take chances because you’re constantly on your heals trying to defend for your goalie. It’s just a different game mentally on the ice when your team has no confidence in its goaltending.

  • VOR_IS_Wrong

    Hey VOR I am calling you out and for a simple reason. Yes we have to score to win and the goalie can do nothing about that or can he? The players change their style of play when there down 1 goal 2 goal then 3 goal, so yes the goalie does play a huge part when the team doesnt score. If Labz didnt let that first goal in Kings would have played agressive. Nothing to take away from MIller her played great. He didnt let one rebound go loose. The face is when you have to play catch up its hard to score and you change your game play. So dont throw this on the boys blame that SOB Labz who couldnt win to save his life. If you agree with me please respond. Ive played Hockey for 10 years and whenever we were down we always had to play differnt. Kings have lost confidence in Labz, hence why they play differnt when he is in goal. Pay attention next time how they start to play goalie and less defence trying to deflect pucks. Example KQ. The boys play awesome dont take anything away from them, blame Labz.

  • EAT THE RICH

    BringBackTheSheild, everyone – you make some great points but Murray is still pretty solid.
    I agree that he’s kinda clinging to the past, but he’s going to get it right eventually, I believe.
    Igor Larionov lives in LA County.
    I seriously believe the Kings should try to gain his services as an assistant coach.
    With Murray and Larionov working together I think this team could do some amazing things.
    I firmly believe I’ve seen the light with Lombardi and that this team has enough talent to make the playoffs and even win a series.
    I still think the Larionov idea is a good one even if we want to concede the playoffs.
    Murray needs to ask for a little help in figuring out how to make the most of these players.
    I see good stuff from all Lombardi’s young guys but the balance is all off.
    I hate to say anything bad about a braveheart like Zeiler but I don’t think he should be taking shifts here right now.

    I’d have been much happier if we’d scored a goal or two in the 3rd.
    It’s hard for me to blame Labs when the team is shutout, and I’m sure Murray’s telling the press that you can’t win if you don’t score.
    In other words, the shutout let’s Hanah off the hook, again.

  • Al

    Ahhhh Voice, Voice, Voice perhaps I should refresh your memory on Chris Osgood, how on Howie Morenz’s ice could you even put LaFloppa in the same level as Osgood??? Lafloppa isn’t even good enough to be in the same dressing room or carry Ozzies bag. evidently the Wings had a piece of plywood up between the posts when they won the CUPS with Ozzie in the nets. Anyone that knows anything about goaltending knows you don’t judge the goalie by the numbers but by the results. I would take any of those you named over Lafloppa, also we had Lagace before. There have been a number of excellent goaltenders who have been the scapgoat for the LA KIngs in the past as they were blamed for everything even though the Kings had some of the poorest defense in the NHL. The Tenders you mentioned would thrive on 25 shots a night if they played here. If we were losing everynight and out goalie was handling 50 shots +/- 10 that would be one thing but 25???? Sometimes but not the way this one loses.

  • jediknight329

    bring back… murray is a good teacher. this team is light years better than they were the last few seasons. young players are generally going to be inconsistent. doughty is definitely an exception to the rule. moulsen was sent down because he was inconsistent. boyle was sent down becuase he was playing small and not aggresive. as for moller, there are only so many forward lines and centers to guide them. kopi, stoll, zeus.. moller is 4th. sorry, but that’s the way it is.

    i had no problems with him starting jlb that many games at the start of the season because most were at home and only the first 2 were back to back. tm then did his review and felt that we needed to be better so he gave ersberg 10 games as well. he generally played better and won more games, but he also did not have the conditioning to play endless games in a row and he wore down. nothing to be ashamed of, but fact. i personally feel that ersberg should get 3-4 starts in a row and then rested for a game. jlb is not our future goalie. i think they should work quick and bernier into the mix this season.

    how did tm f’ himself tonight? goalies have bad games. period. i’m sure he’ll start jlb against the wings, for better or worse. he may also decide to start quick because of how he looked in the 3rd. for better or worse, that’s who we have. knee-jerk reactions and ranting about trading for this guy or that guy is fruitless.

    why is it mindless to skate a team that is speedy against a speedy team? why is it mindless to skate a big, strong team against a big, strong team? why would we put ourselves in a position of weakness by not matching the talents of our opponent? that argument is simply lame. maybe when we have the biggest, fastest team in the nhl, we won’t care who we play and we can skate anyone we friggen’ want to. until then, all teams match up agaisnt their opponents.

    and you, using the age card, like anthony was earlier in the season is also lame and bad form. most of the coaches in the nhl are in their 40′s and 50′s. give that a rest. tm probably has more knowledge of hockey and how to teach it than all of us on this blog combined writing posts for the last 3 months.

  • Quisp

    Voice/Reason, re “He is in the middle of the pack in terms of GAA and save percentage. Those are FACTS.”

    Well, the actual facts are that he’s in the bottom half in terms of GAA and save%, but if your point is that there are many goalies below him, I won’t argue with you.

    Here’s the problem though. He’s seeing fewer shots a game than everyone else in the league. I would expect your counter to that point to be “yes, but his save % would reflect the fact that he’s seeing fewer shots.” But what it doesn’t reflect is his wild inconsistency. He hasn’t arrived at .899 save % (not a good save percentage, by the way) by stopping 90% of shots every game. He’s done it by stopping a much higher % in a few games, and (for example) about 75% in the games for which I quoted shot totals above. Alternating between stopping 95% and 75% of shots faced is not helpful. You simply can’t have an appallingly terrible game every fourth time you play, I would say that stopping 3 shots out of 4 — no matter what the reason — qualifies as the bottom of the barrel of goaltending performances. Especially-especially-especially on a team that is allowing the fewest shots in the league.

    Many of these goals against are so lame that they wouldn’t even be counted as scoring chances if they didn’t end up in the back of the net. The puck is just sort of bouncing around and whoops, it’s a goal.

    However, I agree with you that the Kings are not the only team in the league that would like a better goalie.

    (I just find it harder to root for JLB after The Look.)

  • Anonymous

    Hi Rich, I know you stated the Kings had no interest in Bulin before the season started, do you think that has changed? What are your thoughts on possibly adding Bullin now? He’s having a great year in Chicago this year

  • 4thlinechecker

    Voice,
    I do not think TM is an idiot, I think he has done great job, better then anybody else who was available could have. I get the point that barbs is middle of the pack, but lets be realistic, we are fighting for the 8th seed in the west, It will be tough to make it, and I think that everybody knows he is not the goaltender of the future, so why not sit him and let the kids play til ersberg gets back. Barbs just has not been good enough, and I think it is mental with him. He looked great against columbus and looked decent against SJS and NY, until he has to step up, when the game is on the line, he just doesnt have the confidence to get it done. Our defense has been great, you arent gonna get much better D in front of you so far and he still is shaky.

    I am also not sold on Ersberg, I think he will do for the time being, but I bet you when we make a serious run in the next couple years, neither of these goalies will be in net.

    Quisp, I guess heart is not the word, but Effort maybe. Its not like its his first NHL game. He doesnt look hungry enough out there. Think of the energy that moller and simmonds brought out there, I think that is why they were still here.

  • 4thlinechecker

    And with all do respect, I havent given up on Purcell, I hope he works out, he reminds me alot of Moulson, they are great players but I dont think they have the fire yet.

  • jediknight329

    quisp, you are right… .899% sucks. the fact is, he only has an .899% because of his two shutouts. i wonder where he would be without those two good games. the kings are are giving up just over 26 shots/game. that’s the best in the league. if we had average goal tending, say .910, i wonder where this team would be. way, way too many soft goals. i do root for him, but it is hard.

  • gmo

    ok so now i know the game plan teams have everytime they play LA with LABS in net.

    goes like this;

    COACH “ok boys lets get 10 to 15 shots on net, 3 or 4 of those will be goals, if that fails lets take it all the way to a shoot out”

    i used to hope LABS would become our next #1 goalie…well i guess i was wrong…but yea i hope management is taking this goalie situation seriously and ACT on it soon!!!as i said i had hopes for LaCrapbara but its all clear now, give the young kids a chance if not trade for a golie..i mean i think the team has a pretty good chance at making the playoff if not making a good run for it but we need the RIGHT NETMINDER to back the rest of the team up…and i know some of you out there have said that you cant blame the golie on a loss when your team doesnt even score..well yea DUH you can because if your goalie is letting in that many goals with so few shots it hurts the confidence of the rest of the team to some extend..so dont give me that crap…but if you look back at some of the games he has had were he barely had any pucks thrown at him and AGAIN has let in so many goals, just makes you think.. he had his time to shine, he didnt so its time to part ways i think..

    he either needs to be publicly benched or needs to have a closed door meeting with DL and TM to see if he really wants to be part of this team or not but they cant be allowing him to give those half ass performances…simple as that if not GET HIM THE f*&^%$#K OUT

  • EAT THE RICH

    What we have got here is a failure to communicate.
    Lambarbara is being thrown to the Lions.
    Quisp, I really think you’re making too much of “the look.”
    Labs is no Messiah but we have no evidence that we’ve got anything better (healthy).
    BBTSJ makes a good point that Murray has painted himself into a corner with what he’s sayed publicly about his goalies.
    What was the point in saying he didn’t know if Quick was good enough, or ready?
    Nobody can call a spade, a spade – O’D made a horrible play against NY turning the puck over at the end of the period to Drury.
    That is NOT Lambarbara’s fault.
    Doughty needs to do a better job of not screening his own goallie in that overtime.
    I still think Mair was guilty of interference, but Doughty got pushed into Lambarbara and wasn’t “digging in.”
    Every goalie in the league gives up 1 or 2 goals a game on MOST nights.
    Lambs can’t be counted on to score goals or break tie games – and NO, I don’t mean for the other team.
    I’m never again going to believe Lambarbara is capable of backstopping a team to greatness, but he’s getting too much blame for some of the mistakes of others.
    If O’D had been Gauthier in the NY game, or Harrold had screened Lambs, or if Kopitar had gotten bumped into Lambs on Mair’s goal, YOU’D ALL BE CRUCIFYING THEM.
    There’s no point in crucifying Lambs.
    He’s doing his best and it’s not his fault we don’t have a solid No. 1.
    The witch-hunt is a waste of time and I just pray the poor bastard doesn’t read all this.

  • EAT THE RICH

    i wonder where he would be without those two good games?

    Are you serious?
    Now you want to rate him only on his poor performances?
    I guess if you strip him of all his good games he DOES look pretty weak.
    I think Detroit should acquire the guy. They’d be doing incredible if they were getting Lambs-like goaltending.
    Maybe they’ll give us Kopecky for him and Price-tag.

  • jediknight329

    i am serious. he has 5 wins and two of them were shutouts. he’s at .899 overall. that’s weak. i’m saying even with it that weak, that number is helped out by the two shutouts.

    he’s done well and won 5 games. he done good enough to get a few points in ot. but he’s not reliable enough to be a consistent #1. i just don’t see it. he’s still slow, even with the weight loss. he’s techincally bad – being out of position all of the time. if he was positioned better, he may have made some of the saves on turnovers. good nhl teams have goalies that steal games when their skaters give up the puck in the o-zone. jlb has not stolen one game. it seems that every turnover has led to a goal.

  • jediknight329

    i meant d-zone. just frustrated after a dismal performance all around.

  • EAT THE RICH

    jedi – I completely understand your frustration, and I’m not trying to rub it in.
    But you won’t get anywhere by throwing out a goalie’s good games.
    Good teams win games they should lose.
    They aren’t rescued by their goalie.
    Some goalies are good enough to get a decent team more wins then they should, and you’ll get no argument from me that Lambs is one of those.
    But a witch-hunt on Lambs after a shutout is missing the point.
    Every team gets shutout once in a while, but only an imbalanced team gets shutout 5 times in 32 games and still gives you the feeling they can make the playoffs.
    Murray has got to create 4 balanced lines that ALL have the ability to score and preoccupy our opponents.
    I loved the play of Lewis but if you want to salvage some face in the 3rd period you need to put an experienced NHL scorer on the 1st and 2nd lines.
    Murray is getting close, I think, to getting it ALL right.
    There’s nothing Murray can do about the goaltending except start a carousel – which would make the situation worse.
    I think his comments about Quick were ill-advised, but he’s GOT to try and make Lambs chill out.
    I think Lambs doesn’t get it, though.
    Murray’s psychological tactics aren’t going to work with every player, but he won’t know that until he has a track record to judge by.
    I think he lost Lambs the first time he pulled him in the Colorado game.
    It was 1-3 and not Lambs fault.
    But mentally, getting pulled was the final straw.
    He’s a shell of what he could have possibly been.
    It’s in Lombardi’s hands now.

  • jediknight329

    i’m with you eat the rich. i can’t and won’t blame jlb for every loss he’s been in net for. there’s 20 guys out there that have to show up. our skaters need to make good d decisions and bury the puck more than they’re doing.

    i think we’ve been unlucky. if the team can play through that, what comes around goes around. we may get the benefit of the odd and crazy bounces later in the season.

    i think tm has done a masterful job with most of his decisions. i agree with you that he has lacked on the whole with his goalie moves and his comments about quick. he’s played an nhl game or two last year. its not a track record, but at least he felt the rush and pressure. he was doing ok in manch. he’s got seniority, so send him up. too early to challenge his pschycy (spelling?).

    finally i agree with you about jlb’s confidence. if its not totally shot then he’s hanging on by a thread. even with that, i still don’t make a trade as other have suggested. we have three or four goalies in our system that could be vialble #1 nhl netminders in the future. is the future here, now? maybe. i would give quick the next two starts and see how he does. i would go back to jlb for another start when we get back home unless quick has found a good rhythem and has earned continuing starts.

  • JDM

    EAT,

    yes the defense coughs up the puck once in a while, or a forward is lazy on the backcheck. No defense plays perfectly. Again, if that were the case, no one needs a goaltender. But even Lidstrom makes some mistakes here and there, and when those mistakes happen, a goalie needs to make a save.

    Yes we are witch hunting him a bit, but its the lack of effort that causes it. If labs played his heart out it would be one thing. But on that 1st goal where he was looking right at Roy, but not bothering to react, it makes me want to puke. The 4th goal was the kicker, even on the replay, you can see labarbera kind of slides over, but has virtually no reaction to the shot. He literally just watches it go by him. I’m sick of that, and so is everyone else.

    The team 22nd in the league with 32 points in 21 games. We are 24th in Goals per game with 2.56, and 12th in Goals against per game with 2.75. We are 21st in overall goals scored with 82, and again 12th in goals against with 88.

    If we break those games up between the goalies:

    In 19 games, labs is 5-8-4, having given up 47 goals.

    In 18 games, Ersberg is 8-5-2, gaving only given up 37 goals.

    Ersbergs numbers are around the middle of the league, while labs’ are close to 30th.

    Either the team scores more for Ersberg, or they score they same for both and Ersberg simply doesn’t let in as many goals. Sure this game we were shut out, but overall, the team has almost a 50% less chance of winning with labs in net. That’s the difference a goalie makes, both in stats and mentality, thus amounting to both defense and offense.

    The same players skate in front of both goalies, but they skate better for one.

    I don’t feel like looking up this much detail, but I would even bet that most of the shutouts against us were with labs in net. The only shutout I remember Ersberg playing this year was the Anaheim game, which was 0-0 heading into OT! I could be wrong on that, but it wouldn’t surprise me if out of the 5 shutouts, labs has been in net for 4 of them. 3 at the least. To me that’s telling of a goaltenders effect of the mindset and resulting offensive production of a team. (unless of course I’m totally off base on this, perhaps I’ll look up the hard facts tomorrow).

  • Bring Back the Shield Jersey

    OK jedi, game on.

    First about the teaching. Yes the Kings are better defensively this year. Point TM over Crawford, with a caveat. For I think that we have better players this year than last. Both Doughty and Quincy are better than anything we had last year. OD is doing better than Blake. Our forwards have more speed this year too, it seems, and that helps too. So is it talent (which would be a point for DL) or teaching making the difference? I do think that this year’s team is more aggressive than under Crow. Full point to TM. Credit due, credit given. But the inconsistency you speak of works both ways. He didn’t get them to be consistent. Their fault and his. Also, he sticks with inconsistent players, jlb, calder, heck Kopi looked asleep for about 20 games. This is my point-instead of being able to get what he wants from the youngsters, he shoots them down awfully quickly. Heck, he shoots ‘em down before they even step on the ice, ala Ersberg and Quick.

    TM f-ed himself by putting himself in a position to almost have to play his (proclaimed) un-ready for the NHL goalie against the Wings. It’s called setting him up for failure. If TM wanted to put Quick in the best position to succeed, he would of started him against Buffalo. If Quick plays good, he can either claim to go with the hot hand and play Quick against Detroit. But if Quick loses, then TM can with justification play jlb against the Wings. Now, he’s got an even less confident Santa LaBarbara, a team with even less confidence in Santa, and he still doesn’t know what he has in Quick. OH, but what if Santa had played good tonight? Low odds on that happening, and it didn’t. Can’t wait to hear his explanation of tomorrow’s goalie.

    “Why would it be mindless to skate a speedy team against a speedy team…Why would we put ourselves in a position of weakness by not matching the talents of our opponents?” EXACTLY. My point is, we don’t do this. Ivanans skates EVERY GAME even against the Wild who never fight and are fleet of foot. Right now the only healthy scratch we have is Preissing; not much flexibility there. Matching line-ups is a tactic that TM does not take advantage of, and we are worse off for it. Glad we agree.

    I’m not playing the age card. It’s Murrays actions that indicate old: resistance to change, favors the familar, can’t figure out what to do with the unfamiliar, not nimble enough to juggle his lines or line-up.

    He is really messing with most of the kids though. He either puts them in the high-pressure position of playing on the top line (Moulson, Purcell, Lewis) and complains when they are hesitant and nervous; questions their qualifications (Ersberg, Quick); or sticks them in the black hole known as the fourth line. Exceptions: Doughty, too good for TM to screw up, and Simmonds, TM’s favorite type of player- a hustling 3rd line checker who rarely gets a point. Why not try a rookie line? Some combination of Purcell, Lewis, Boyle, Moulson- they’re all familiar with each other. Something, anything to give the kids something of a comfort zone.

    Who was it on the board who say it looks like we’re neither fishing nor cutting bait? He’s exactly right. Because Murray is not developing the kids this year, we’re going to have to do it next year. That means probably no play-offs this year, nor next year either.

  • JDM

    alright I checked now, and labs was in net for 3 of the 5 shutouts. Ersberg losses in net where we were shut out were both against Anaheim, 1-0 and 2-0 decisions and we got a point in one of them.

    labs were against SJ, a 1-0 regulation loss, the 4-0 loss to the Canucks, and tonights 5-0 loss.

    Maybe this doesn’t mean anything.

    If my math is correct, in games that labs has started the Kings have scored 36 goals, and in the games Ersberg has started the Kings have scored 46 goals. Now those don’t account for a goalie getting pulled or anything, so as with all stat breakdowns its flawed, but still a little telling. My only point is that who is in net does have an impact on how the offense plays.

    So that would give Ersberg as a whole a +/- of +9, and labs a +/- of -11. Again this is only in regards to the starting goaltender, were I to break it down further, when you consider Ersberg has only been pulled once I believe and labs has now been pulled 3-4 times, the +/- numbers would probably go up and down respectively, making the gap further.

  • Reb

    Okay. So I didn’t get home from work until the 3rd period was just beginning. I missed any shots on goal stats and it wasn’t until after Labs was pulled that I heard the Kings had 30-something shots on goal. Not once did I hear how many shots Buffalo had until Quick had been in for awhile. So, color me surprised when I find that there were 4 goals on 15 shots. I’m not a fan of Labs, (in fact I have been an Ersberg supporter since I saw his first game last season) but it really seems odd that TM will let Labs continue on with a bad game against Colorado and “ride it out” but will pull him in an equally bad game. Does anyone know the reasoning behind keeping him in against CO vs. pulling him against Buffalo? Also, if TM heard about Quick beating Buffalo last year and knowing that Detroit is tomorrow, then why not just start Quick? That makes no sense to me, but I am still relatively new to hockey fandom.

  • Brent

    VOR said: “All that being said, he is a capable goaltender. He is in the middle of the pack in terms of GAA and save percentage. Those are FACTS.”

    If you guys are going to use facts, then use the current ones. After tonight’s game, LaBarbara’s save percentage is .893! That is 37th of 46 goalies in the league. Not good.

    His GAA isn’t that bad at 2.83. He ranks 29th of 46 against stats that started the day. It’s only there because we allow the fewest shots in the league at 26.0/game, otherwise it’d be worse.

    Thank goodness we play tomorrow so I can forget about this mess and have something else to think about.

  • EAT THE RICH

    JDM

    Nobody (anymore) thinks Lambs is the messiah.

    There’s no need to crucify him.

    There are other forces at work that we need to discover.

  • src

    Start the poll!!! Waive him now!! Bring on the kids and let them battle for the nr. 2 spot. The team will be fine with ICEBERG in net. Plus, the boys will tighten up the D even more for the kids-win, win situastion.

  • ian

    So that’s what really good goaltending looks like?! I presume Miller got the first star of the game…

  • jediknight329

    bbtsj… its like carpet bombing, too many good points. here’s my overall – i think tm has done a good job on team d and getting this team to play better than anyone expected on a nightly basis. for the most part we come out aggressive and energetic with a plan to shut down the other team. i think he has lacked at managing the goalies. the ersberg injury definitely put a wrinkle in our plans. i think tm was hoping at jlb would be better. now he has few choices.

    i think its funny. many say tm juggles his lines too much. he is still trying to find the consistent winning combo. i don’t blame him for going with what is comfortable. he feels that nhl vets should be able to play consistent. calder is not a first liner. it took him a while, but i think tm sees that now. as for sully, i am also old school. sully held out and was punished for it. good for the team – probably not, but i think it may have taught sully a lesson. he’s been one of the better players over the last 15 games or so.

    as for screwing with the young guys, i disagree. i think he’s seeing what they can handle. remember, there were low expectations going into this year. putting them into different scenarios is the right thing to do.

    i love the idea of a rookie line. i think they would click. they may be a defensive liability, but if the kings are way of the playoff race with 10, 15 games left in the season, why the hell not? it could be magic.

    i never felt the kings were a playoff team. i hoped they would improve 10 to 15 points over last year. they are 13-13-6 after 32 games. that equates to 82 points year-end. 11 points better than last year if that holds up. we will be a playoff team on 09-10. cup contenders in 10-11 and beyond.

  • JDM

    What other forces?

    The 4th line?

    The only other problem I see for the struggling offense is that even with his recent extra emphasis on going hard to the net and getting shots through, the forwards are a little stifled under TM’s defensive system. There’s too much board cycling or high to passes on the same side of the ice. We don’t get cross-ice passes through the slot. We only go side to side either up high at the blue line or behind the net, never in between, which is where a lot of goals are scored. That’s the only significant problem with the offense I see.

    I don’t think it’s an imbalance in the lines really. Maybe switch Frolov and Calder and that would help add some offense.

    We need another goal scorer.

    The crucification comes because with Ersberg out, I am panicking. In 19 games with labs, we have only collected 14 points. At that rate we are gonna end up hurting really badly if Erbserg is out for a prolonged period.

    I guess I’m just bitter that we have no one else that we know is reliable to go to and are stuck with labs and pinning our hopes on Quick being able to step in.

    You know me, I’m not usually one to go after scapegoats. I’m just frustrated. If this was labs first or second year here I’d give him more of a break. He’s had too many opportunities now, and has blown every one. I just want him gone and I will be upset to some degree until he is, or atleast isn’t starting regularly.

    And yes Bring Back the Shield, I do think Murray was a bit stupid for admitting no confidence in Quick. Kind of lame and pointless on his part.

  • JDM

    whoops, late night posting…

    “high to *low or low to high* passes on the same side of the ice”

  • EAT THE RICH

    BringBackTheSheild –

    While I never want to see that sheild jersey again, I think you’ve done a great job of dissecting what is at stake.
    Murray is doing a great job in some areas and a poor job in others.
    What we all want to see is the chemistry that we’ve seen him foster meld with new ideas in how the game is played.
    I cannot agree more that he’s wasting games by skating Ivan every night. Or that his psychological tactics don’t always work with every student.
    He’s got to change a bit.
    He’s had 2 cracks at the Stanley Cup and didn’t get it.
    There’s maybe only 1 element missing from his formula.
    He needs to discover what things he is doing wrong and come to grips with letting go of old habits, perhaps?
    The possibilities are endless, if you think about it.
    I seriously believe this team could win a Stanley Cup this year.
    I’ve seen crazier, more improbable things happen in sports.
    But the team is only as strong as it’s weakest link, and that is Lambs.
    You either have to weld him stronger, or replace him with a regular-old-fresh-out-of-the-box link of steel.
    If you’ve got one.
    Or, can buy one.

  • jediknight329

    brent, are you still up?

  • Duckhunter

    Quisp, are you related to Doughty? or do you have a crush on him? Ever since “the look” you have been spewing venom toward LaBarb. It’s not really that big of a deal. I’m sure Doughty isn’t losing any sleep over it. You are usually the calm one. Do you know, you have cursed 3 or 4 times over this(not that I care), it just surprises me, because that’s not your style. I promise you, everything will be alright.

    There’s one thing that confuses me about you hockey guys. On one point of argument, you will say numbers don’t mean anything, then on another point you’ll make your point using numbers. What is it, do numbers matter or not? quit confusion me damn it.

    TM stating he doesn’t know much about Quick and that he doesn’t think he’s ready is a bit unnerving. Then why the heck do you bring him up? Or another question is why have we been put in this position, where our reserve goalies aren’t ready to fill in where needed. It’s hard to blame TM, if he doesn’t have the parts to fix the broken machine. I really hope Quick starts today.

    I also agree with some of you, that our offense has to step it up a few notches. I really can’t explain why we’re not scoring. We have had many scoring chances in the last few games and can’t seem to find a way to bury it. Thought we were coming out of our funk a week or so ago, but we’ve fallen back down again.

    Guess that means we’re going to get up off the floor again and put a whooooopn’ on Detroit today!!!!

  • EAT THE RICH

    It’s really not only the 4th line JDM.
    Murray has yet to pair Fro and Brown on the wing together.
    He has yet to pair Moller and Brown together on the wing.
    * interesting that it could be argued Moller is much like Cammy. Why not give Moller and Brown some time paired up to see if that clicks like in the pre-game highlights where Cammy was feeding Dustin goals from the off-wing. Brown on left, Moller on right.
    Murray also hasn’t tried Fro with SulliTar.
    Why not?
    Is Fro chained to Zus?
    WHy not move Brown up with Fro and Zus for last night’s 3rd period and move Lewis into Brown’s spot and abandon the 4th line?
    The score gives you the opportunity to experiment at that point.

    One thing on another note:
    I’m glad Moller’s playing for his country, but maybe I’m rethinking that our season shouldn’t take priority.
    Purcell – Kopi – O’Sullivan
    Frolov – Zus – Simmonds
    Moller – Boyle – Brown
    Calder – Stoll – Lewis

    Damn, that’s tight.
    I’d like our chances in Detroit with that lineup.

  • BringBackKingston

    JDM,
    for my own amusement after the rangers game i attempted to count the number of goals the kings have scored in support for each goalie. i even tried to take into account goalie switches during games – for instance in one edmonton game EE got pulled after the first period and then the kings scored i believe 4 goals in the second. anyway, the numbers i arrived at indicated that the about the same number of goals scored by the kings for each goalie. I think the difference might have been 1 or 2 goals.

  • JDM

    Funny that we both had the same notion within 2 games of each other BringBackKingston.

    I like your lines EAT. I would only switch Boyle and Stoll, since Brown and Stoll seem to have something together and Boyle and Lewis should have some sense of eachother from Manchester.

    However, not calling Boyle up is a DL decision, not a TM one. With the players he’s been given from DL, TM only has one other choice of players, and that’s to dress Preissing and play Harrold at wing. So with no choice for now but Ivan and Zeiler until after the roster freeze, I don’t think there is a better combo, except for trying out switching Calder and Fro… but then again Zus and Fro play so well together. Hmmm… maybe switch Simmonds and Brown?

    Sully-Kopi-Purcell
    Frolov-Zus-Brown
    Calder-Stoll-Simmonds
    Zeiler-Lewis-Ivan.

    Hopefully Army can get healthy in the next few games and go in place of Zeiler. With any luck by the New Year Boyle will have earned another call-up, we can get Moller back, and then your line-up can become reality.

    The important thing is that Quick gets given a chance tomorrow.

    If history is worth anything, the Kings will bounce back and win this one like they have been doing all season after getting blown out.

  • EAT THE RICH

    Well, I hate to say it JDM. But I think Murray will start Lambs.
    Purcell’s gaffe and the shutout will allow him to deflect blame and persist with trying to hypnotize Lambs into believing he’s a No. 1.
    If so, you’ll feel the frustration I feel seeing that 4th line all the time.
    If not, I hope Quick is up to the task of Zetterberg, Datsuyk, and Hossa – not to mention Lidstrom, Kronwall, Hudler, Fillipula, Samuelson, Fransson, and that guy who likes to stand in front of net.
    Lombardi makes the transactions but he’s not going to call up Boyle unless Murray requests it.
    Boyle could be there in 2 hours.

  • Paul from Oxnard

    I know everyone is pushing the panic button after this game. Let’s keep something in mind here. Of the 32 points the Kings have earned this year, only 6 have been earned on the road. They’re 3-7-0 away from Staples. That means they’ve got 31 more road games to play. This may not be as good a season as we’ve convinced ourselves it could be.

  • nykingfan

    Voice of Reason
    All of your points were right on and everyone is jumping down your throat. I don’t get it.
    We were shutout..plain and simple. We didn’t seem to put too much traffic in front of Miller and I think he had a fairly easy 40 save shutout..if that’s possible.
    We all agree Barbs is not the answer for this team, but we don’t have much of an alternative right now. None of us know whether Quick/Bernier/Zatkoff etc are ready to play in the NHL. If you think you do, your hallucinating or seeing things thru rose colored glasses.
    Realistically, we are left with Ersberg and Barbs and unfortunately, Ersberg is hurt. Somebody on a previous post was dead on when they said the backup goalie is exactly like the backup QB in football. Everyone loves them until they see them on a regular basis. then they find out why they’re backups.
    We can call up Bernier or give Quick the bulk of the games while Ersberg is out, but all we’re hoping for is to catch lightning in a bottle. There’s no guarantee that at this point in their careers they’re any better than Barbs..In fact, they could be worse right now.
    Barbs is not the worst goalie in history…he’s just playing poorly at this point and needs to straighten himself out.
    Back to my original point..we were shutout. I don’t care who the hell we had in goal, we weren’t going to win that game. For the psuedo mental coaches, the team doesn’t quit because the goalie gives up a goal. They are professionals and are supposed to play hard no matter what. If they did quit, then get them the hell out of here and quickly.

  • Big Rob in Dallas

    I don’t know if people read the 68th comment but I was glad to have this turd of a game on Tivo. I was able to fast-forward most of it and not have to endure the whole mess.

  • nykingfan

    Big Rob

    I read it and should have done the same thing. Good move!

  • dirt-mover

    No breaks in this game for sure – we were all over them in the 1st and the 2nd – Miller made nice saves – our offensive effort is very solid – Tonight is going to be very interesting – we always seem to play Det solid for a period or two our offensive skill set matches well with them – we had them beat here except for denis turnover in the end of the 3rd- go kings

  • voice of reason

    nykingfan–I see where everyone is coming from, I really do. Anyone who thinks I am a fan of LaBarbara is sorely mistaken. However, I’m not sure there are better options available for us at this time. No doubt Quick and Bernier probably have more ability than Barbs, but neither one is ready to be a #1 in the NHL, and I’m not sure how beneficial it would be for one of them to split time at this point in his development.

    Is LaBarbara the most glaring weakness on this team? Probably. But he’s not the only one, and more importantly, I’m just not sure how we improve that aspect right now with Ersberg out. There’s a small handful of elite goalies in the NHL–the Brodeurs, Luongos, and (currently) Tim Thomas. Then a bunch of very good goaltenders like Ryan Miller, Cam Ward, Thomas Vokun. After that it’s a lot of average, capable netminders. LaBarbara falls towards the bottom of that last group, and the only goalies available for a decent price are the other ones in that lower tier.

    I would much rather suffer through LaBarbara than make a move to get a Toskala only to find our team in the same crap situation.

  • KingzzFan

    Well it looks like I’m a little late here. It took me awhile to read through all the bantering. Good points here on both sides. I do want to comment on 1 point that was discussed earlier in this post. Goalies cant win unless the offence scores… Yes this is true, BUT they can still steal a point.

    Going back and watching the goals against, (how hard was that) jlb was out of position and slow to react on every goal. I also noticed (in the 2nd) pressure was breaking early in the offensive zone to get back on D. That to me showed the team has no trust in the Goalie. Should we dump him? I guess that’s the main topic here.

    This team is exciting to watch, check the posts from last week. How excited was everyone. Now take a look. This is like a roller coaster. Up, down, side to side. Some people like the merry go round. But that just goes round and round. I like the roller!!!

  • Ersberg

    This game sucked, next please.

    And V-O-Reason..you’re JLB isn’t horrible; he’s absolutely 100% horrible. Take a closer look at the first goal again. If JLB were tight on the post, like he should have been, there would have been no puck for Quincey to bounce off his leg..period.

    Lets hope they can salvage the weekend in Detroit.

  • DellaNooch

    Let me just say, I’m not defending JLB, if you read my posts, I have said from the begining of the season, he’s just not that good, and felt he even got luck in some of his wins.

    But, Voice of Reason has brought up a good point. Quisp used some pretty good stats to highlight JLB’s bad play, now I want to highlight our offense’s accountablity in our losses

    Fact – The Top 30 goaltenders average more than a goal a game against, so no matter whom you have in net, there is should be a 2 goal expectation per game against. Thus, the offense should focus on scoring 3 goals a game to do their job

    Kings Record:
    When scoring 3 or more: 12-5
    When scoring less than 3: 1-14

    If our offense were to do their job every night, with our current goaltending for the entire season, we would win around 50 games and make the playoffs.

    You can use whatever excuse you want for the offense, but it’s just an excuse. The offense needs to finish their scoring chances for us to get to the next level

    Want an example, let’s take the team with the best record:

    San Jose
    When scoring 3 or more goals: 21-2
    When scoring less than 3 goals: 4-5

    Bury the biscuit boys and let’s see the post season this year.

    Voice of Reason…I think you stated your opinion to an angry mob, boy did they get upset. Funny thing is, I think you agree with them for the most part, just stating the very obvious fact that we need to actually score on our shots to win games. I think that is pretty standard…It’s almost like they need to hear John Madden say “The team that scores the most points will win” to get it. b

    I’ve stated since the beginning of the season JLB just isn’t that good, his poor fundementals have been showing more and more.

    The offense needs to be held accountable for our losses as well. I want all of you to think about this. On average, most goaltenders average around 2 goals against in the league, even the top tier. Thus it will take 3 goals to win a game, no matter who your goaltender is. So every time a team fails to score 3 goals, you can expect that the offense has not done enough to win. We scored 3 goals or more in 12 of our 13 wins. We did not scored 3 goals in 13 of our 19 loses. So when the offense does their job, we’re 12-7, if they always did their job, we would win aound 47 games in a season, that is enough to make the playoffs.

  • old man

    Theres alot of knowledgeable hockey fans on this site, but the bottom line is labs is like that one employee that doesn`t work well with others. Don`t mess up a good company.Please TM try another goalie!

  • KingFan4ever

    Either way the Kings are going to get scored on tonight so put in Jason and save Quick the huge letdown. Better if LaRebounds gets shelled because the evidence against him gets even more irrefutable.

    And yes, it would be nice for someone to get a goal thats not in a red jersey.

  • Vasquez

    In Other News:

    Canada defeated Team Sweden in a World Junior exhibition game.

    Victor Hedman and Oscar Moller scored for Sweden in a 4-2 loss.

  • EAT THE RICH

    Sometimes the closer you are to the situation the harder it is to get any perspective.
    DellaNooch – That is such a simple and startling stat you posted about victories based on scoring 3 goals or more/less.
    That’s a key to this situation.

  • RB from Torrance

    DellaNooch is right. I made the same argument back at Game 9 before Barbs was sat on this very site. If you HAVE to score 3 goals in order to have a chance to win the game with him in goal, you are going to lose more often than not.

    Worse yet, for those of you that still feel as though Barbs isn’t losing us games, go to a home game in which we make it into overtime. People start leaving in overtime because they know what is coming. I started chanting for a goalie change with 3 minutes left in OT and had everyone in my section doing the same.

    Why is it so easy to keep the goalie the same but change the lines every other game? How can anyone expect chemistry to build between players if they are playing with a different person, but the same losing goalie? How does that build morale?

  • Bill

    If it was obvious that Jason was a consistently good goaltender we wouldn’t be discussing it endlessly. There wouldn’t be so many people like myself openly wishing for his absence in net. On the flip side, there wouldn’t be a need for anybody to make excuses for him, such as apologists working hard to identify “other” reasons the team lost a game, etc.

    Jason has had his chances, again and again. In my opinion he’s failed to seize the moment and make himself the go-to guy. One that the players don’t grip the stick playing in front of. He can be very good on occasion (note to Terry Murray, that shutout was against COLUMBUS), but he manages to let in goals of the worst kind, at the worst time far too often.

    Your goaltender has to be consistent, period. Jason has never been that. Time to give the youngsters in the system a chance to show what they can do. Is there anyone left that doesn’t know what to expect from Jason at this point?

  • BringBackKingston

    Della Nooch – good post.

    Really the offense needs to start warming up. the team especially needs scoring from others not named Brown, Kopitar or Sully. I don’t even remember the last time someone else scored. The kings need to find that secondary scoring.

  • JDM

    Well, after a good nights sleep, and the excitement of a new game day, I have finally come back down to earth, in part thanks to many of your calm and rational points.

    labs still needs to go, no question.

    However, that does not take total accountability away from the forwards. Murray is in a tought position. This team is so fresh and new, that even though the goaltender has cost them some games, the forwards haven’t been getting it done all the time, and with such a young group, you have to keep morale high while still making sure no one takes any personality responsibility away from themselves and shirks it on the goaltender.

    I made this point a few days ago, but its telling that Murray was so quick to point out Ersberg on his one baaad game. He treats everyone the same way except for labs. He even called out Quick yesterday with a vote of no confidence. I can only hope that is a strategy of getting Quick to play up to the challenge of proving himself. He doesn’t do this with labs because he knows it won’t help. It will only further shatter labs confidence. He wants Ersberg to win games for the team, and the team to win games for labs. He was forced into this situation by Quick not being stellar in pre-season, and Ersberg and Bernier missing most of it. The more I think about it, the more I think Murray is handling a delicate situation very well, which again, is why we see such strong efforts from everyone (labs aside). In a way, putting labs in net yesterday was not only the safer move because he knows what hes getting with labs, but if he starts him today it will be even more obvious that its a challenge to the team; “You know whose in net, its on you guys, make it happen.”

    Ultimately this is a terrible situation to have if we are planning on contending. However, in a learning year, it crucial, so long as Murray can walk the thin line between challenging and overloading and losing his players. I think this team is up to the challenge of giving it their all, and when they do break through, I think they will be better for it.

    If we have this same situation next year, then it would need to be handled quite differently. Both the team and the goaltender would need to be admonished. The goalie for not ‘digging in’ and the players for not putting the biscuit in the basket.

    DellaNooch’s stats are on the average dead on. Most teams need to score three goals. This does not discount the fact that on a contending team (and to an extent ESPECIALLY a bubble playoff team), the goaltender will need to steal a few points throughout the season. But that was never the emphasis going in to this season, and while playoffs are not totally out of the picture, they are still not the ultimate priority of teaching this group to play with and for eachother and give it their all every night. They have already bought in to the system, almost instantaneously, which is a HUGE credit to Murray, now the rest of the season is about the team getting comfortable with the system and Murray tweaking it along the way to fix the flaws that arise.

    We’ll see what happens, but I have high hopes for this aspect of the season, and really that in and of itself has little to do with labs. If anything, labs is the extra weight on their shoulders to make it tougher on them. Yes it sucks, but for injury and sickness reasons beyond anyones control, its the cards we’ve been dealt. Lombardi does have the power to change this, but I think it would be a mistake to make a move this season. Think of making a play for a goaltender as a reward for the teams continued effort. If they play with heart and compete on the ice night in and night out, then they have earned the right to a number 1 goalie. But not this year.

    Even if they are 2 points out of 8th at the deadline, it would be the wrong move and send the wrong message to shake up the roster. Lombardi and Murray need to send the message to the team that they’ve come this far on their own, time to prove it to management, coaching staff and themselves that they can get to the promised land of the playoffs on their own. Whether they succeed or not, it is then the time to give them some extra help, which at that point should only motivate them.

    Tough love. I see it in Lombardi’s and Murray’s move and quotes, and so far it seems to working very well. Just look at Frolov, some of us feel he is being misused, but if I can recall, this is the first season where I have not heard ONCE that Frolov is playing too lazy. He’s not finishing as much as we’d like, but a player we have always criticized for what looks like slacking off a little, has played hard and ‘dug in’ 98% of his time on the ice. That to me shows Murray is doing things right. Its harder to judge with the rookies that we’ve never seen before, because we have no comparison for how they played under different coaches. We’ve seen Fro coached by three guys now, and Murray is the only one to get Fro to play with fire and passion every game.

    I look forward to how the team will respond tonight.

  • DellaNooch

    Thanks for the recognition, please ignore the second half of that previous post, that was my rough draft

  • Cricket

    Just read on the Kings’ website that Quick will start tonight

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