In praise of Lewis

In contrast to Teddy Purcell, there’s Trevor Lewis. Called up from Manchester last week, Lewis played his first NHL game Friday against Buffalo in a fourth-line role. The next day, against Detroit, he played on the first line and scored his first goal. Here’s what Terry Murray said about Lewis’ start in the NHL…

MURRAY: “I liked a lot what he showed here. His game has been elevated since training camp. He has speed and skill and he has a real good head on his shoulders about his game and his responsibilities. He seemed to fit in on that line. Is it a result of adrenaline and the opportunity he’s getting right now? We’ll see. Time can only answer that question, but he brings skill and speed and a lot of good things to the game.”

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  • anthony

    Be careful Trever.
    Make One mistake. Just one, and you’re punished.
    You’ll just join the list of players like Moulson, Sully, Frolov, Boyle, Richardson, Purcell.

  • markisonfire

    Anthony, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here.

    What should we do, then, about players making mistakes?

  • BOB

    Anthony, I refuse to call you an idiot, that would only lead to my comments not being posted. What I will say is this:

    Purcell has looked L-O-S-T in the last few games, Murray is absolutely doing the right thing here.

  • http://hbshakes.blogspot.com Shakes

    @markisonfire
    clearly Tony/Anthony would say that if you make mistakes and are still played then it’s the fault of (take your pick): TM, Dumbardi, Wild Wing.

  • anthony

    markisonfire,

    Perhaps you’re right. I should have stated – If you do anything this coach doesn’t like, you’re punished.
    Whether you’re right or wrong.

  • TB

    Anthony,

    I get it…you really don’t like TM. To each his own…

    But when a team is looking to create a culture of excellence and an expectation of winning, there is no better way to do so than to “punish” or as I prefer TEACH the players the value of being an NHLer. This isn’t college or semi pro. This is: fans paying, televised, sponsorship promoting, PROFESSIONAL SPORTS. In any league, on any team, the idea is to seek perfection. If a team sucks, you ride ‘em. If a team wins the cup…YOU STILL RIDE ‘EM. I suggest watching the movie Miracle if you haven’t already. Its a perfect example that a coach is not a friend. A coach is a realist who doesn’t care who he offends. He is out to make the best of his circumstances. Period. Kudos for dropping Sully to the 4th line when he did, and kudos for moving the callups around has much as he has. Its all part of the process. PROCESS PROCESS PROCESS.

    DONE.

  • Roger

    Purcell’s game needs some work. He plays with only an offensive mind set. But at this level all players have to play a defensive game. At this junction I don’t see that from him. He does not appear to take the defensive responsibility seriously. And that is showing in his game. On the other hand Lewis was the first guy back on defense covering the passing lanes and putting that back pressure, forcing the opposing forward to dump the puck instead of carrying it into the Kings zone. Boyle displayed similar symptoms that of Purcell. Now he is back down in the minors again. The quicker these players realize that’s what they have to do to play at this level the better chance they have of staying in the NHL.
    All of us wanted the Kings to be a better defensive team. The coaching staff has put this mandate on the players. We have no reason to complain, but give TM all the credit for trying to develop defensively sound team, that for once is on the right track. It may take several years, but that’s how championship teams are built.

    Roger

  • EAT THE RICH

    BOB – It’s funny how quickly lemmings change their attitude.
    Purcell looked great until he got benched.
    He was backchecking, covering, even hitting and going to the front of the net.
    The only thing he really F’d up was backchecking on MacArthur’s goal in Buffalo, and it wasn’t for lack of effort, it was just a guy new to the team and league getting it wrong once.
    I love that we have a line that’s used to punish young players instead of contributing to the goal of winning the game.
    That’s just fantastic.

  • KingzzFan

    So it’s ok for him to pout and not produce because he got sent to the 4th line? Boo Hoo. This is exactly what TM should be doing. inflated egos need to know they are part of a team, and they need to earn evertyhing they get. We all see he has the ability, he just needs to do it every time he’s on the ice, Regardless of what line he’s on. After all he is being paid play.

  • MartinRW

    Lewis is not ready for the NHL. In the few games that I’ve seen him, he looks completely lost.

  • Quisp

    It’s not punishment. That’s just the inflection you’re putting on it. It’s not “you did bad so now go sit in the corner with a pointy hat on.” Follow the bouncing ball:

    The first line has a greater defensive responsibility because it sees the best opposition. The fourth line is a “safer” place to practice, if you will, your defensive chops against weaker opponents. Purcell is not being punished. He was promoted from Manchester. Now he has to learn how to play in the big leagues.

    The team is very competitive, internally, as all good teams should be. If Purcell can’t keep up on the first line, then Lewis gets a shot. Lewis is doing well. If he falters, he can spend some time on the fourth or third line, until he figures it out. Even then, I would resist characterizing the fourth line as Siberia. Look at Moller. There was one game when his ice time was reduced; but for the most part, even when skating on the fourth line, he was getting more than ten minutes of ice time, and twice the amount of his linemates, because he was getting spot duty on other lines, as well as PP time. This of course would be Purcell’s fate as well, provided he does the work.

    Purcell simply has to figure it out, has to play solid defense, or he will not make it. Everyone has to go through this. I believe he will get his s*** together; but if he doesn’t, those are the breaks.

    I’ll tell you one thing, he would never make it if he took it as personally as some of us/you/whoever do on his behalf.

  • EAT THE RICH

    Why do you have to get like that Kingzzfan?
    Boo Hoo?
    What does that do but piss someone off?
    How is Purcell pouting? Or Boyle?
    The comments coming out of the casltle don’t add up.
    Maybe I’m the stupid one for wasting my time arguing this, but it’s about double standards and using untalented players.
    Double Standard – Alex Frolov is benched for the entire 3rd against Phoenix for a small error, but Doughty turns the puck over with a pass right through the middle against Detroit, to Nik Lidstrom, and doesn’t back check very well against Fillipula who scores on the play, but he continues to play the entire game.
    Untalented players – Purcell and Boyle have to be good in every aspect of the game, but Ivanans and Zeiler can be one dimensional, and poor at it, game in, game out.

    It’s like Crossfire on here.
    I think people just like to agitate.
    There is none of this kind of talk when everyone is bashing Lambs.
    Strange.

  • jet

    Quisp: Germans?
    KingsFan: Let him go, he is on a roll.

    I know, I know a few threads short of a screw. Eat the Rich caused me to walk around humming “Shama Lama Ding Dong” all day.

    Anyway, just because we have had so many rookies come up and be successful or show the ability and willingness to work to be successful does not mean that every rookie we call up will be able to step right in. Look half the starting Ds are rookies, half the GKs are rookies, and a third of the forwards are rookies. Win or lose this is an incredible year, and it will give us a great base to build from.

    Quisp – also you seem to leave off Dwight King in all of “lines of the future”. I believe he could end up being our best pick from that draft. BTW, DL haters, we could end up with 6 players from that draft if Cameron continues to develop.

    Its not an orgy, its a toga party.

  • KingzzFan

    I can see it makes you mad but Look at it this way: You get sent to the fourth line and JZ and Rats get sent down to manchester.. What does that say to a player??? Looks like I’m the 4th line guy now no chance to move back up to 1st or 2nd line..

    You get sent to the 4th line to work on your game at a high level, to learn how to finish and grind. You keep complaining about JZ and Rats playing every night, You need to have roll players on the team. Moller, Tuk or Purc are not roll players. TM is grooming them for more. learn to grind & finish and bring it to your A game. It’s called coaching

  • EAT THE RICH

    Quisp –

    You of all people should understand my frustration.
    At least you didn’t get Labs starting all 3 road games, which in my opinion, would have gone better if we’d had Lambs playing behind my 4 solid lines – one’s that you have agreed would be better.

    I’m trying to get an answer to a question I’ve been asking for the past few days: “What is Lombardi’s take on pursuing a trade for a legitimate starter in net, and in talking with Brendan Shanahan?”
    I want to know what the people managing this team think about it, not what other fans think.
    Somehow, I got caught in this discussion (i bring it up too much) about the 4th line and the lack of sense in what we’re being told.
    It absolutely is a waste of time and a “punishment” line. If someone can explain Ivanans usefulness in a game against Detroit, make my day.
    Otherwise, I think the blockheads who keep arguing that our 4th line is fine should take a look at Detroit’s 4th line players.
    Sure they play good offensive players there, but they don’t have one guy in any way as unfit for the NHL as John Zeiler, nor do they have a goon.
    They have talented 4th line players who are expected to grind first, then score.
    We have NO, ZERO, ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE, that anyone is going to get anything accomplished playing with I & Z.
    Why not have all these kids that you want to see grind and defend better on the same 4th line?
    What a concept.
    Is it because none of the other players are taking the body and agitating?
    Is it because none of our other players can protect themselves?
    NOTHING MAKES SENSE.

  • EAT THE RICH

    Kingzzfan –

    Do you realize Tukonen is no longer a part of this organization?
    Sending down Zeiler and sitting Ivanans is exactly what the young prospects need to break into this league in now. If they never get on the 1st or 2nd line, who cares?
    Not that your statement makes any sense because we’ve seen 3 players in the last week go from the top 2 lines to the 4th, and vice/versa.
    You’ve got 12 spots for forwards per game.
    Isn’t it the best formula (I’d say Detroit is the best example) to have 12 players who can play the game really well?
    They don’t have a goon, and they don’t have an untalented agitator.
    I’m sure that if you played Brian Boyle on the wing with Kopitar and Brown, he could play whatever style you wanted him to.
    You might even turn him into a good fighter over a little while.
    On the 4th line the only thing he’s going to be able to do is try and cover for the “filler” playing alongside him – R.I. and J.Z.

  • KingzzFan

    My Bad I meant Lewis, Relax, I’m not disagreeing with you. In one of the other posts I asked for my X-mas present to be Moller/Boyle/Army. See no RI or JZ… If you would just take a step back and remember that this is a REBUILDING YEAR. and yes we do need a thug on the team like RI rigtht now to make sure nobody takes bad runs at our developing players while we’re rebuilding.

    You keep compairing us to Detroit. Perfect example… Just remember when they were in thr toilet and rebuilt the right way. They didnt get there over night. They stuck to their system and plan. We need to stick to our system and plan also. Because changing every year hasent worked for us yet has it? We may not be doing it the same way they did, were doing it our way, so lets not make any judgnents on it untill we’ve finished. Just sit back, Relax, and enjoy the show.

  • EAT THE RICH

    Kingzzfan

    I think Kings fans should start up a “RUDY” chant when Zeiler gets on the ice.
    And a “JUDAS” chant for Rob Blake.

    Yes, rebuild. That means play the kids, not the role-players.
    We absolutely have a use for Ivanans. But not every game.
    I’m fine with modelling ourselves on proven winners, but many say we’re behaving like them.
    This isn’t baking.
    You don’t just throw it in the oven at 350 and get a Stanley Cup when the buzzer goes off – maybe a cupcake that says Stanley.

  • Gluten for Punishment

    Alright how long are you guys gonna put up with this crap? We have been going through a rebuilding phase for how long? 3yrs, 4yrs,5yrs…I may have not been a Kings fan as long as some of you on this site (about 20 yrs) But I know what its like to be a gluten for punisment because I’ve been a Rams fan for 40yrs. It’s like dejavu didn’t the Rams have about as many quaterbacks as the Kings have had Golies? Sadly I had to watch them win a Super Bowl for St.Louis Only because the owner was to tight to pay for good players. The same holds true for the Kings, How far are we under the cap? I still can’t stomach the Anaheim Clucks winning the freakin’ cup but the owner did what he had to do he purchased it. It may only be for one year but it’s more then we have. Some of you may not agree but we need to spend to get some good established vets on this team (Mats would have been nice)not Calder or Handzus or Guthier or is that Cloutier whatever. I think Georgia Frontiere has been reincarnated as the Kings owner (where’s Bruce McNall when you need him?) We can blame TM all we want but he can only play the cards hes been delt. Don’t get me wrong the young guys on this team are awesome but watching them against Detroit and San Jose they were just out classed. So come on ownership losen the purse strings spend some cash buy some talent show the fans and the young talent on your team that you want to bring a cup to LA and not some other city then maybe we can keep the the seats full like those freakin’ Clucks of Anaheim

  • wavesinair

    how is zeiler anything like rudy? the real rudy only ever played in 2 plays in the last game of the season. that’s what made him famous. odd comparison.

    the forth line is dead to me. tm’s goal to have it be serviceable isn’t going to happen anytime soon. it will continue to purely be a defensive training ground for the young guys. the 2 regulars on the line are too solid defensively to cut loose and, just as quisp said, the talented young guys coming up need to learn to play a solid 2 way game. why?

    because they have TALENT. unlike Ivan, who’s role is defined, guys like Boyle and Purcell and Lewis must learn what Ivan does so well AND let their offensive skill shine. They must learn, in their own way, to be consistently tough defensively. We aren’t privy to all the nuances in the player/coach relationship, but I suspect a lot of what goes on when it comes to making roster decisions comes down to who listens well to the coaches then implements what’s expected of them. i don’t think TM is in anyway a sadist. i think a player can make a mistake, hell many mistakes, but he must be able to correct them in order to keep their position and flexible enough to change roles as the coaching staff sees fit.

    also, when it comes to the fourth line, we have to consider the system tm implemented. we have seen the fruits of it already by the improved defense. it has gone way beyond our pre-season expectations. obviously, our offense has suffered big time as a result. and that is one good reason why tm isn’t just trowing in the young guns like maybe would happen under a different system. he is sticking to his defense first system. i commend him for it and as much as i’d like to see a Purcell/Boyle/Lewis line, it simply does not fit into tm’s system as of yet. like i said before, let tm find his way. give him at least half the season if not more.

    yep, takes time. nope, don’t like it either.

    of course, without a goalie, we’re heading off a cliff no matter who we play where.

  • JDM

    agree with everything waves said.

    Would I like to have a 4th line as good as Detroits?

    Um… yes please.

    But we don’t have that kind of depth yet. That is what we are trying to develop. We are trying to build what they have, but we don’t have it yet, otherwise we could ice a great 4th line along with a solid top 9. Detroit can, and well, that’s why they’re Detroit and the Stanley Cup champs. We can strive for that, but we can expect to emulate it immediately.

    If we want to take a cue from Detroit on anything, its that they really take their time with their prospects. They never rush anyone. They let their players simmer, ferment if you will (that one’s for you waves), in the minors until they have fully learned and bought into playing the system Detroit teaches. Their system is why they are so good. Its why Ellis can be useless to them, and instantly look awesome on the Kings. Same with Quincey. The Kings need to continue to stress the system, and right now, stressing the system and beating into players brains is more important than making the playoffs.

    I think this applies to Bernier and Quick as well. I think back to this previous draft, where Detroit used the 30th pick on a goalie, and immediately all the commentators said he would be lucky to see any time in Detroit for the next 3 years. They take their time. DL will do the same with our goalies. Looks at what he did with Nabakov and Kiprussof and Toskala in SJ. They all played atleast 2 full AHL seasons, sometimes 3, and then spent significant time as a backup before they were handed the reins. I pray DL utilizes this same practice in our situation.

    The same goes for forwards. Ivan and Zeiler might not be great players, but they are effective in their roles, and are in a sense stop gaps. I’m sure neither is on DL’s future roster.

    Yes we are rebuilding and playing the kids. But you still don’t rush prospects. Play the kids means you plays the guys who earn their spots and you don’t go looking to trade them or sign a bunch of UFA’s to take their place. Playing the kids does not mean keeping up Boyle and Purcell all season, regardless of whether they buy in to the system or not. Playing the kids just means giving them a chance, but if they are not up to snuff then they go back down.

    Army and Richardson will take a spot from fairly regularly from Ivan and Johnny Z soon as they are healthy. We can’t bring up a bunch of other players unless we put Army on IR or send someone down, who wuold likely get claimed. You are only allowed so many players on a roster. Injuries to Army and Richardson and Ersberg, along with Moller in the WJC, along with Boyle dissapointing in his play away from the puck have put us in the current situation we are in. It really doesn’t have much to do with Lombardi or Murray being stubborn or stupid in my opinion. The only way they are stubborn is in not handing ice time to players who don’t focus on defensive coverage.

    I’m glad their stubborn in that way.

  • EAT THE RICH

    wavesinair –

    do you think I haven’t addressed every issue that you’re bringing up in regards to the 4th line.
    They are not defensively sound, they are a defensive liability. That’s why they don’t play in the 3rd period.
    They are in no way fulfilling the role of enforcer or pest. Neither one has effected any game in a positive way.
    The players you’re speaking of that have talent can’t get anywhere when they’re brought up, scolded, and sent packing.
    They could play a much better role defensively if they had linemates who were capable of playing both ways beside them – for a young player to at least stick on that line he must first and foremost stay back (like Lewis did in Buffalo) and be like a 3rd defenseman. Nobody is going to look very good “covering” for two incompetent players for 4-6 minutes a game.
    Consider the Kings over the past month, waves.
    How many 3rd period leads we’ve lost…
    How many games we got hammered in, or shutout…
    How many games the 4th line has done anything of note other than Ivan fighting Shelley (which really didn’t affect the game at all)…
    We’ve got an agitator already – Brown, Simmonds, Calder…we don’t need Zeiler’s pestiness.
    Not every aspect of TM’s system is relevant in today’s NHL. A goon and a 4th line past are a waste on most nights nowadays.
    I see don’t understand how the Purcell/Boyle/Lewis line doesn’t work in the defensive system. Why not? It’s a much stronger defensive line than any 4th line with Ivan and Zeils.

    Are were this much worse than Chicago?
    After 33 games last season, we also had 12 wins.
    If we had a little more weight on the scoring and rested side of the scales we’d have at least a few more wins.
    How do you go into a roster freeze period with only 1 guy available? Preissing.
    Why was Boyle playing most of his 4th line minutes with an aged, rookie defenseman?

    Zeiler is like Rudy because Rudy was all heart and desire. If you could bottle that desire…is how the cliche goes. Rudy wanted to play for Notre Dame when they were THE college football program and had a genius for a coach.
    I love Zeiler’s attitude and I hate to sound like I’m insulting him, but he probably knows that he’s really not fit to be in this league. So, he’s RUDy because if the Kings were a real team and had a great coach, he’d be helping us get better by pushing the guys in practice and showing them that he has a great career because he will do whatever he can for the team.
    There’s no shame in being John Zeiler.
    He probably makes more than Anthony.
    I know men who worked 35 years and were decorated in their feilds and didn’t make half Zeiler’s salary.

    In my opinion, as long as fans of the team sit on their hands in silence during games while this team spins it’s wheels, they’ll keep letting low-cost filler like Zeiler to fill the roster.
    Maybe that’s all it’s about – money.
    Based on statistics and watching the games, I can’t think of any other reason he’s on the team.

  • simi Kings Fan

    EAT, That’s why you arent the coach. Sorry, I was sitting on my hands in silence but please. ETR, I know you must know something about the game, but really, you can’t be serious, look at all the improvements to our game this year. Shots agsinst. PP, PK. All better than last year. I agree with Kngzfn. Relax and enjoy watching the good. the glass is half full and I can see the growth every game.

  • NMKingsFan

    I think one of the important points of Murray’s comments was “speed and skill”, Lewis has got speed, Purcell doesn’t so he must bring other things to the table like a good finish. Both have skill, Purcell must work harder though to make up for his lack of speed. I think once Moller comes back Purcell will go down. He and Boyle need to create a good chemistry together and maybe next year show the two of them need to be on a line together with the Kings.
    EAT THE RICH—
    You lost me on about the 2nd of your 15 comments on this post. Anybody who read in entirety all your diatribes deserves a medal. Best to lay off the Mountain Dew.

  • JDM

    EAT,

    Still reading your post, but in reference to the 4th lines defensive capability.

    Zeiler is a -1 in 11 games this season. +/- 0 in the last several losses.

    He was not on the ice a single goal against vs. SJ, NY, Buffalo or Detroit.

    Raitis overall is a -10, but is 0 in the past 4 losses. Again, he was not on the ice for a single goal against in those games.

    While he has not been on the ice for any goals for this season, his only three consecutive minus games were 3 of the first 4 games, games he played with Brian Boyle.

    All in all Zeiler and Ivan are -3, going back and starting in the Colorado raping when they both had were a -1.

    Not all stats are useful, but that is something you simply cannot ignore if you are going to falsely claim that Zeiler and Ivan are defensive liabilities. They are not, and Ivan was only a consistently liability when playing with Boyle at the start of the season.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know.
    I guess it’s too hard to take a player off the ice and tell him on the bench what he did wrong and what you want him to change on the next shift. That would be too much like good parenting.
    “We’re not Detroit, We’re not Detroit.”
    Say it enough times and you’ll forget you only have to be 16th to get into the playoffs, not No. 1.
    My 4th line of Purcell/Boyle/Lewis is made up of 2 guys who got a shot on the top line and 1 who didn’t.
    The argument used to be that a guy didn’t deserve a shot on the top line until he proved he was a great, mean, checking guy.
    How does that stale argument work now?
    How does a player like Boyle, who had one bad game in Calgary, suddenly become so useless just because the same coach who is calling Lambs his No. 1 said he’s not playing hard enough?
    In Novemeber, outside of the Calgary game, he was minus -1 on the 4th line.
    I would think his +/- would be worse if he were so bad.
    Richardson barely gets to play even when healthy.
    We plucked Armstrong right out of the AHL, and for all we know, he’s done.
    He’s not fit enough and he’s getting old.
    I don’t know if he’ll return from this injury.

    If you don’t think Purcell/Boyle/Lewis is good enough, split them up and have Calder/Stoll/Simmonds on the 4th and slot the kids in somewhere else with our old-timers. Just get them playing and let them work on their NHL game while we’re still unworthy of thinking we could beat Detroit.
    Why does it matter who we play in goal?
    Why not start Lambs for the duration?
    I can’t believe I have to spell this out again and again.

  • JDM

    I just have to reitterate that Ivan was covering for Boyle, not the other way around. Look at the +/- breakdown by game.

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470113&view=log

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8469120&view=log

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470619&view=log

    Please don’t cite defensive statistics that you haven’t analyzed. No one is arguing with you that Zeiler and Ivan can’t score to save their lives, but they have simply not been a huge defensive liability. Kopitar has a worse +/- than Zeiler and is only 3 better than Ivan and he actually gets a few +’s on a fairly regular basis.

    Kopi is -4 in the last 4 games. Rat boy and Zeielr are 0. Come on man, they aren’t why were losing games.

  • EAT THE RICH

    JDM

    Boyle plays in a 0-0 3rd period against the Ducks, but neither Ivan or Zeils plays while we’re ahead against Detroit, San Jose, or NY.
    Funny that Boyle’s numbers went to shit after O’Sullivan was moved off the line and he got the Ivan, Z, Army line to skate with. Brilliant.
    Zeiler – 70 Games playes, 1 goal, 3 assists.
    I’m not even going to bother with Ivans stats.
    You don’t build a team by compiling all your rubbish as 1/4 of the squad.

    Maybe you can explain why the 4th line is repeatedly getting ice time with the Harrold/Gauthier line? Is that because that’s our strongest option?

    And I guess Quincey should be benched after the last 2 games.

  • EAT THE RICH

    I just have to reitterate that Ivan was covering for Boyle, not the other way around.

    JDM – What did you do with the real JDM?

    NMKIngsfan:

    Geez. You’re right.
    I’m freaking nuts.
    I know it’s a pathetic waste of time and my mind, but it keeps me from thinking about the real world which is in a worse state of affairs than the Kings.
    Maybe if people didn’t like cheap, illegal labor I’d still have a job.
    It’s the season of hope, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed and try to stay away from the coffee pot.

    Cheers All.
    Happy Holidays.
    JDM, Quisp, NYKINGFAN, DUCKHUNTER, RICH, AL, Anthony.
    Everyone.
    Have a great Christmas.
    Come on you Kings.

  • JDM

    Buddy, I said specifically “No one is arguing with you that Zeiler and Ivan can’t score to save their lives”

    You didn’t address the fact at all that they are not defensive liabilities as you have been claiming.

    In the other thread I said this, guess I’ll repeat it here.

    I agree that Murray is mishandling the 4th line. But not in the way you have been indicating. I think we have a capable 4th line of being defensively responsible and eating up minutes while the top players catch their breath. I think Murray has made huge mistakes not playing them in the 3rd the last two games for the specific purpose of resting our players.

    I already showed you they are defensively responsible, so I’m baffled that Murray won’t play them in the 3rd. My best guess is that its to put extra pressure on his top players to pull through. I disagree with that strongly.

    Especially in the Detroit game Murray should have played the 4th line atleast 2 shifts in the first 10 minutes of the 3rd period. That ultimately cost us the game. I guess Murray may not have faith in them. But I do, since I notice that they are mostly in the offensive zone when they are on the ice.

    So we agree about Murray’s handling of his line rollings, but disagree that its because the players on the 4th line aren’t capable.

    I don’t really get where the Quincey comment fits in. If its something to do with Boyle deserving his send down, I will refer you to Boyle’s statistics as well game tape of his consistently poor defensive coverage and lazy play. Quincey may be off his game recently, but he’s just missing an extra step, you can still see the effort to battle there. Boyle showed that effort maybe 1 full game and intermittently in a few others in his 14 game stint. The majority of those games, his linemates may as well been skating without him because he was more consistently invisible than he was impactful. Again, a players visibility has everything to do with that individual player and not his linemates. Effectiveness has to do with linemates, but effectiveness and effort/visibility are two completely different subjects.

  • JDM

    I’m still me EAT, albeit I’ve been a little more intense and hostile lately, due to things Kings and non-Kings related. That outside world is a biatch, on that I’m most of us nutty posters can agree.

    We’ve been going at it pretty bitterly of late, but I do appreciate and enjoy it thoroughly.

    I like that we disagree about all this so much, since ultimately our thoughts aren’t for others so much as for ourselves, and what keeps us coming back is the pasion for it all that we share.

    Good times.

    Happy Holidays to everyone here, and most importantly,

    go kings go

  • markisonfire

    I think some people are giving Ivanans and Zeiler too much credit, while others are giving them too little. As a bruiser/pest/stopper line, they do pretty well. With that said, they also don’t play a whole lot of minutes. So their +/- numbers might be a bit skewed. That doesn’t mean that they can’t punish the other team physically. Then again, it’d be interesting to see how many minutes Ivanans and Zeiler get against the top line of opposing teams.

  • EAT THE RICH

    JDM –

    I love talking Kings with you but have to call it a day today.
    The caffeine has worn off.
    I brought up Quincey because players that are on the ice a lot will have lots of +/- problems like Quincey did this week.
    If you believe Ivan is capable of “covering” for anyone, I can’t argue with you.
    I say, “Uncle.”

    I just hope Murray starts Lambs for another 10 games in a row so you’ll understand the frustration I feel.
    I really don’t even know why I keep watching the games.
    It was a lot better last year when payed much less attention.
    And the NHL as a whole makes me want to puke – I feel dirty just watching it.

  • EAT THE RICH

    JDM, the “what did you do with the real JDM” comment wasn’t because I was mad at you, but because you must be MAD to believe Ivan was covering for Boyle based on some plus/minus numbers.
    You’re not that crazy, are you?

  • wavesinair

    Do you think I haven’t addressed every issue that you’re bringing up

    I reject the assumption. I only read about 10% of your posts.

    No doubt there’s disagreement on the fourth line being solid defensively. Any of the two AHL guys are not nearly as consistent defensively as Ivan and Zeiler. They know how to play the system and are doing what is asked of them. The AHL guys arent. As was already astutely pointed out, one cant say Ivan and Zeiler are a liability as evidenced by them not playing the third, while at the same time pointing a finger at them as if they had something to do with losing all those leads inthe third.

    In other words, if that line had played in those third periods, maybe we wouldnt have lost all those leads? TM must know this. I think he has the right idea to shorten up the rotation in crunch time (having the best guys out there when it counts most) but its not working out the way he plannedyet. The top 9 still need to toughen up and learn to hold leads better. But in the mean time, maybe TM should play the fourth line guys more in the third. Of course, as soon as a better, more talented fourth line takes shape, Ivan and Zeiler will be gone. The sooner the better as far as I’m concerned, but not at the expense of veering off course.

    We also have to factor in the need for a better third defensive paring, which obviously would also help tremendously in holding leads. TM and the rest of the coaches as well as the GM know the shortcomings we all point out. But there IS a plan. I can see it taking shape. Thats not to say there arent mistakes made by the coaches. Of course there are. Does any reasonable person expect perfect coaching? Its not possible. But there is a plan taking shape. Stick with it. I think we hit our first real wall this season and now we either get our second wind or we start to backslide. Its all about responding to the challenge and the Kings players certainly have one coming up. They just need to work the system hard. Id feel really good if we can stay at .500 through January.

  • EAT THE RICH

    I reject the assumption. I only read about 10% of your posts.

    Waves – I don’t understand why you are entering a conversation if you don’t know what I’ve been talking about?
    I’ve gone over these issues til I’m blue in the face and I don’t care to repeat for the thousandth time how I know Murray doesn’t really know how to get the most out of his team. Hockey isn’t that difficult, and it’s not too difficult to see what he’s doing wrong.
    The Kings looked their best early in the season BEFORE Murray hog-tied them with his philosophies. He’s doing a great job in some areas, but he’s outmatched in others.
    I hear too many lies coming from inside the Kings lately.
    I have a hard time believing that Murray and the players are truly in a cozy relationship.
    Revisit the first Ducks game and what he started to do after that great victory (we were without DOughty for the second 1/2 of the game).
    He’s been tampering with the mix ever since and getting it WRONG.
    Everything else aside, the “goals” of the season don’t match up with what Murray is doing on the ice.
    Expect Boyle to be gone with no return next season (he’s in the last year of his contract and is RFA next season).
    Don’t expect Bernier to ever be a franchise goalie. He’s Marc Denis the 2nd. This isn’t a knock on Lombardi, either, as it wasn’t his scouting team that picked him from what I hear.

    The Kings are rolling the lines as they are because they’re conceding the season.
    If doing the best were the goal, Khabibulin wouldn’t be the only goaltender we’d consider.
    They play Ivan every night because the know the majority of Kings fans at Staples are sold more on Fighting than skilled hockey.
    They keep playing Zeiler because as long as it looks like there’s a great effort, they can go cheap and not sign players that can really compete in the NHL.
    They also rely on American’s love of statistics to hide the fact that they’re not trying to compete. If Kings fans believe Khabibulin would have been bad for LA because he was statistically bad last season, you don’t have to spend 7 million dollars for the year to try and have a good season, you stick with your cast-offs and “prospects.”

    I’m once again convinced the Kings are trying to get a high draft pick.
    If we accept that we’re not that good and can’t compete, what’s the point in playing the games?
    To me it’s obvious that we’ve got plenty of hockey talent to play with any team in the league. The players have done amazing since the first game of the season.
    Murray just continues to put everyone in a position to fail.
    The record since just before Thanksgiving is an embarrassment and there’ve been a ton of games lost in the 3rd.
    The players can compete and get leads, it shit coaching to lose so many games coming from the lead.
    The 4th line is Murray’s mess, not mine.
    I’ve tried to explain why it’s a mess for over a month.
    It’s performances speak for itself.

    I’m hoping to pretty much put the team at a distance again.
    I see no reason to support the team right now.
    Maybe next season or when a new coach is brought in.
    But it’s tough because the Kings are the only team in sports I really have a connection with. Thus, I’m sick of being treated like a cuckold.
    Merry Christmas