Kings learning to win?

Custance may try to understand what's going on in LA, but it sounds to me like he just is parroting what Lombardi told him. I mean the idea that Kopitar could be compared in his development to Steve Yzerman is just as crazy as it sounds. Yzerman was scoring 40-65 goals a year all the way through his 10th season in the league before he "became more defensive". In fact, to make the point even sharper for Deano and Custance, consider this. STEVE YZERMAN HAD MORE GOALS IN HIS 7th year in the league (62 in year 6, 65 in year 7) than Kopitar has in his career!

And, the idea that the goaltending is solid is another ridiculous one. Ersberg ranks THIRTY-SIXTH in the league in save percentage. LaBarbera TWENTY FIFTH. That's why the Kings give up the fewest shots in the league but rank 11th in GAA. It's because the goalies are way below average. In fact, by save percentage they are very near the WORST IN THE LEAGUE.

The lesson is simple. Don't ask the GM about his team. Don't ask the coach. You'll get fed a bunch of BS.

i don't think lombardi is calling kopitar the next yzerman but merely using yzerman as an example. the team is playing a much more defensive style than it did last year. that usually leads to less goals scored because the team takes less chances. kopitar may not be producing as much, but you have to admit that the team as a whole is playing better than they did the last two years. ersberg and labs haven't been great, but does anyone really see either of those two guys as our future goaltender. those guys are bridge goalies so i'm more inclined to give them a break. they're not leading us to a stanley cup anytime soon. the team is progressing well, so i say just sit back and enjoy the progress! i mean, going into this season no one thought we'd be fighting for a playoff spot. the stretch coming up is difficult, but who knows, we may actually make a push for the playoffs.

Yzerman didn't play with Calder on his line either!

Well using Yzerman as an example is a bad example. Yzerman dominated offensively for a DECADE before the entire team was restructured and age/team philosophy caused a drop in his offensive output. Kopitar is still on the 1st line. I'm OK with saying Kopitar is off to a slow start. He's young. The team is more defensively solid. And he's not Crosby or Ovechkin or Yzerman (for crying out loud) so it's not really a big deal. But his downturn this year has NOTHING in common with Yzerman's scoring drop which led to a ton of Stanley Cups.

And Ersberg and LaBarbera keep the tradition of bad goaltending alive in LA. The good is Potvin for about 6 months, Hrudey sort of here and there and Rogie. The bad is the other 35 years. Hearing Lombardi and this East Coast "blogger" say the goaltending has been solid is sickening.

You also can't compare because they are in two different eras. Stevie Y played in the no defense NHL of the 80s and early 90s I think one year there was like 12 50 goal scorers.

Neil - I think your assessment of the goalie's, especially Labs, is a bit harsh. Looking at the stats they're better than a lot of the guys who are highly respected. I see a continual attitude amongst Kings fans that the grass is greener when it comes to goaltending. We also rarely support the goalie vocally in the arena.
Detroit could take a guy like Labs and make him respectable because in the end it comes down to one stat, wins and losses. Labs is still young in NHL terms and if he builds upon his strong game Sat. and feels empowered to continue voicing his frustrations and increasing his "leadership" role, he could be a very steady guy for us.
We need to realize here that all goalies give up on average at least 2 goals a game. Right now Labs is at 2.50 and that gives a team a chance to win if they're at all steady in scoring. The Kings still need to learn to score when necessary. Also, the team defense, though much better than last year, is still plagued by horrible mistakes by a young team which leads to goals - even if there are only 18 shots against, 3 of them can still be lethal if there are breakdowns by the skaters.

I think you're getting unnecessarily wound up (and missing the point) over the Yzerman thing. Nobody thinks Kopitar is as good as or better than Yzerman. Nobody. However, Yzerman is the poster child of the prolific scorer on a bad team who eventually learned to play defense and became an all-around great two-way clutch player on a Stanley Cup winning team. The point is not to make people think Kopitar is Yzerman. The point is to SELL DEFENSE to Kopitar, Frolov, O'Sullivan etc. (and to the fans). "If Stevie Y can sacrifice stats for wins, so can you bozos." Get it? And of course, just as important is the lesson, "remember Detroit used to SUCK."

The reason LaBabs Goals Against average looks good is because they only see 25 shots a night. Like I said, LaBabs and Ersberg have the worst save pctg's in the league, or very close.

LaBarbera is gonna be 29 in a month and he's coming up on his 100th NHL game. His save pctg has always been in the .900 range and it looks like it's going to stay there. That's not good. It's barely passable.

The Kings are cheaping out and half-assing the goal position. Again.

And another thing on Kopitar "purposely" scoring less. I don't buy it. And it's a perfect example of why an out of town writer should take the words of a GM or a coach with a grain of salt. Kopitar is shooting MORE this year than last year. Not an anecdote. He is averaging 2.61 shots per game this year as opposed to 2.45 last year. He's spending MORE time on the PP this year (4:23 per game vs 4:09). If he's purposely putting aside the scoring to play more defense, please explain how he's doing so. He looks like the same player as last year only he's slumped pretty significantly.

I dont mean to spoil your fun neil...but most goalies save pct is around .900

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/1514/career;_ylt=AvDBtrUVKU2sbvY0IbNDhgBivLYF


http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2017/career;_ylt=AvDBtrUVKU2sbvY0IbNDhgBivLYF

Steven, Kiprusoff and GIguere's career save pctg.'s (thanks for the link) are .914 and .915. Look around a little. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. From .900 to .915.

Last year was 2007, this year is 2008. Things are not the same Neil. You must be a Ducks fan.

Man, I'm re-thinking my position about Lababs sucking badly. Now, he's no Brodeur, but I think he'll end being a lot better once the Kings' D solidifies.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2476

All the bad stats against were mostly in part of the Kings previous years shitty D.

Neil - I definitely think too many take the hyperbole of coaching/management as gospel, but I also support Labs. I think he gets the blame for the mistakes in front of him, with little goal-scoring support, like in the Calgary game with the Langkow goal. Nobody was able to recognize or admit that Doughty was responsible for that breakdown. Likewise, nobody seems to recognize that Murray's lines aren't balanced enough and that he's overworking the top players by skating severely weakened 3rd and 4th lines.
Labs isn't to 100 games yet, so, for a young team like this, he's got some space to improve and really make a name for himself. He may fail, but if he gains confidence, there's no reason he can't be a very steady guy.
In the end, I have the same criticisms of the way people seem to just buy in to the propaganda about the future, but I love to support our guys/players and always have faith that if there is promise in a player they may turn into something great. I think the only guys who don't have MORE to give are Zeiler and Ivan. They are who they are and will never turn into anything else. With Ivan it's acceptable because he's an enforcer, but Zeiler shouldn't be here unbalancing EVERYTHING and taking up a spot for a youngster like Boyle or Purcell or Lewis, even G Gauthier.

I agree with DL that Kopitar has made a concerted effort to play better on the defensive end. He still has a ways to go, but I see him being the first forward back in the zone a lot more than I have in the past.
As others have said here, nobody is comparing Kopitar to Yzerman in terms of goals, but they are comparing him to the fact that Yzerman became a complete 2 way forward after being just a one-dimensional goal scorer as he was early in his career. Also, the point was well made by Big Rob in Dallas that Yzerman played in an offense only time early in his career. At that time 40 shots were the norm during a game. things are a lot different today.

I agree with Eat the Rich that Barbs is not getting a lot of credit from people on this blog. He has played well enough to win many of his starts. I don't see how his GAA or save % is relevent here. We are giving up the fewest shots in the league, but there are quite a few of those shots that are impossible for the goalie to save because of defensive breakdowns. He's also made some spectacular saves as well. To use save % as a barometer means you would have to equate 50 foot slapshots the same as 2 on 1's down low.
Same goes for Ersberg...sans his last game.

Neil K, you couldn't be any more wrong than you assessment tha the Kings are being cheap when it comes to their goalies. The Kings have invested their future in guys like Bernier, Quick, and Zatkoff. They are hoping that one of them becomes the next Luongo. It's way too early in the process to dismiss them as busts. We're getting decent goaltending from the pair we have now...there's no reason to waste future cap space on another goalie....especially with what is waiting in the wings.

ETR I agree that many fans have used LaBarbera as the scapegoat as they have other moderately competent King goalies before him. And I'd even agree that Labarera is moderately competent .. but as a back up seeing 20 games a year.

But my view is this: the Kings have half-assed the goaltender position for TOO many years now. Taking moderately competent guys and trying to squeak through saving money on salary and "hoping" it would work. Bringing in Euro's and journeymen and washed up former stars .. Starting this season with what? 8 guys in camp all with a shot at making the NHL? That's not "depth" it's throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall and hoping it sticks. Just like EVERY year for a decade, HOPING someone emerges as a true #1. Starting the season AGAIN with two "projects" in goal while we wait for a guy that we HOPE will not be another Jamie Storr.

The thing that got me started on this is the out-of-town writer saying the goaltending has been solid - that the problem is solved. The goaltending isn't KILLING the Kings but it's still below average. I think the stats prove it's been less than solid. I mean if the goaltending was solid you'd think the save pctg would be higher than 25th and 36th in the league, right? That's very near LAST.

BTW, interesting that I'm a "duck" fan because I have negative things to say about the Kings.

You guys are gulping down the kool-aid now. Here's two quotes I love:

"I don't see how GAA and save pctg are relevant" (when discussing goalies of all things!)

and then ...

"I don't see how the Kings are being cheap with goalies" (with the explanation that the two guys in the NHL are cheap and aren't taking away from FUTURE cap room and the rest are all prospects).

The truth is that GAA and save pctg are the most telling stats for a goalie .. and 2 of the ONLY stats out there, AND the Kings have used journeymen/washed up/interim goalies for a DECADE. That's exactly the same as they are doing now. The fact that they are pimping a bunch of prospects doesn't differ from the old days. Maybe they'll pan out, maybe they won't, but the fact is the Kings are spending about zero money on goaltending.

The article is a good read. Clearly from the onset, it was tinted with Lombardi speak, which is the use of analogies. So apparently we're at or approaching the 'trigonometry" stage, and not 'chemistry.' Whatever. But the point being is that Lombardi is still saying that the team is not where it is eventually going to be but it is at a solid stage in its development. That's the point of the article, period. No where in the article did it say that Labs and Ersberg are future goalies. It did say that the team still has holes. Guess what, they're part of that, but for a team in its second stage of development, rather than their third or even fourth, this team is where it is suppossed to be. They're not Clouts, they're not Fukafuji, and we may actually see less than 7 goalies take to the ice this year.

It's just another article stating the obvious, that the team is improving and the rebuild is starting to show some actual reality. It's a fun read for crying out loud, adn that's about it. And of course the rebuild the article discusses will only get more crucial as Lombardi plays smart with who he trades and what current bridge players we move on from and what players we build the team around. We're already starting to see the latter with some long contracts, so I'm happy with that much for sure.

What's with all the arguing about goaltending? Every one of was bitching about it after the first 10 games...how basically if it wasn't for Lababs, the Kings would of had 2 or 3 more wins than they did at the time. You even look at that now, that's what separates us from the playoffs. Are we seriously arguing that LaBarbara has been average or less than for the majority of the games he's played this season?? WOW

I do think the "goaltending is solid" part of the article smells a bit off. I agree with Eat that the goaltending has not been that bad, but there's a difference between "not that bad" and "solid." My interpretation is that DL would like to deal one or both of Labarbera and Ersberg this season, and is hoping for a little bit of press help to get their stocks up. If that doesn't sound plausible, consider that DL has a log-jam in goalie prospects, with Bernier, Quick, Zatkoff and Martin Jones all needing room to grow into their NHL careers. Then there's this paragraph from Hockey's Future:

"Martin Jones appears to be an enormous steal for the Kings...[s]igned to an entry level contract...as an non-drafted 18 year under the rarely used section 8.9(b)(ii) of the collective bargaining agreement[...]. The early returns on their newest prospect reveal Jones to be at the top of the WHL in both wins and goals-against average and third in save percentage. There does not appear to be any let-up in Jones’ progress as he is already in his third full season with the Calgary Hitmen and the clear no. 1 netminder for arguably the best team in the entire WHL. With a tried record of success, at least two more years of major junior eligibility, and a packed Kings farm system in terms of goaltenders, Jones need only refine his game with Calgary and wait for the goaltending pipeline to clear out before moving on to the professional ranks."

These are four goalie prospects all of whom have a bigger upside than the two currently holding down the job in LA. Will they all pan out? Probably not. But certainly not for the Kings, unless they're planning on dressing four goalies.

Neil - Don't let the "negative-guy-get-out-of-here" stuff to heart. I hear it a lot and don't understand it. In my opinion, putting blinders on is being negative.
As long as we're out of the playoffs and struggling to find a balanced, consistent team, "criticism" is deserved.
It's good to read comments who people who know what they're talking about.

Neil: there's a difference between "throwing stuff on the wall and hoping it sticks" and legitimately having three solid goalie prospects. ask anyone around the NHL, and they'll say that next to Carey Price, Jon Bernier is the best goalie prospect any team has. Quick is playing very well in the NHL, and Zatkoff has potential. you CANNOT compare bringing in journeymen goalies and washed-up stars (which used to happen) to drafting great prospects (which is what's happening now).

if our three prospects fail, you can't pin that on management. and saying "we wait for a guy that we HOPE will not be another Jamie Storr..." is just stupid; if anyone GM had that approach to good prospects, they'd finish last year after year.

What's with all the arguing about goaltending? Every one of was bitching about it after the first 10 games...how basically if it wasn't for Lababs, the Kings would of had 2 or 3 more wins than they did at the time. You even look at that now, that's what separates us from the playoffs. Are we seriously arguing that LaBarbara has been average or less than for the majority of the games he's played this season?? WOW

Funny that since Lombardi came here the Ducks have had Giguere, Bryz, and Hiller who all look like pretty solid guys (plus they had to move Gerber). Some teams seem to ALWAYS find goaltending talent, while others seem to continually fail. That said, it's too early to say we're not going to see rewards by trying to groom young guys in the minors. I don't feel drafting goalies with 1st round picks is a good idea, but we're already on that avenue, so we just have to keep rolling.
Though I've been HIGHLY critical of Lombardi, I'd stick with him and his methods as long as there is some team progress being made. Now, if he trades any more guys without giving them a chance a la Tukonen, I'm gonna be pissed again, but that's water under the bridge and I just hope our young guys get a fair shake - no matter who drafted them.

Neil -

Nobody said Kopitar is "purposely scoring less." That's just silly. The point is -- and it's not even debatable -- you're going to get more scoring chances if every game is a free-for-all. That's not to say that Kopitar isn't playing through a funk; he clearly is. Part of that is attributable to growing pains in embracing a new system. His numbers right now project to between his first season and second season numbers. I think we ought to expect him to snap out of it soon. But I also think it's unreasonable to expect his numbers to continue to go up (compared to his first two seasons) given that the team is playing a totally different style, and with positive results.

I would also note that DL is remarkably consistent on this score. He said before the season started that scoring numbers would probably go down as a result of playing a more defensively responsible game (this would be before Kopitar's slump, so it's not an excuse for it). And even with regard to prospects, they told Hickey not to worry about putting up numbers this year, but to work on the other aspects of his game, positioning, strength, etc.. It's the same message throughout the system.

I see that as a good thing. And the Kings' record so far this season shows that there is at least some wisdom in DL's strategy.

People also said that trading and not signing legitimate talent would create difficulties for the established "stars" on this team - something that has undoubtedly happened. Kopitar is struggling with the lack of support on the blue line and the demands of playing defense first. Lately, he looks REALLY off. Does he think he should be captain? Do he and Brown see eye-to-eye and have chemistry? I haven't seen chemistry by Kopitown for so long I don't remember it ever.
Murray is the source of the offensive struggles as well as he doens't know how to make the most of his options. His player management is terrible.

@comments regarding not speding on Goalies.

Perhaps they are trying to bridge the Lababs/Ersberg era with the fewest amount of dollars since they HAVE said prospects in the wings, perhaps? Now that the defensive struggles have been seemingly shored up, they can save a few bucks to get an elite O-man down the line.

Besides..what goalie would they want that's affordable? Khabi? No. Gerber? Hahaha. Anyone else? The key word there is affordable(cap era/room for the future).

Well I'd say that in the last 10 years a LOT of the premier goalies in the league have changed hands and not once have they come TO Los Angeles.

And you have a hard time convincing people the team isn't being cheap when Lombardi has recently disclosed that he had to trade Visnovsky because the owners were considering selling a portion of the team and wanted payroll down. Oh yeah and all these years we were waiting for the "cap era" it's now several years in and we are at the FLOOR? LOL. No no, they aren't being cheap at all.

Anonymous & Quisp...I totally agree....Good read, it was a fun, perspective building article. We do need stability with our goaltending but again, with our GAA down from most previous years, no complaints. And with the Kings farm system stocked with young goalies and defensemen, the future is certainly brighter than ever in many, many years.

Nice going LA, DL, TM and our young Kings. Keep it up!

Rich,

I hate to open up this question but what about JMFJ and a long term contract? What do you see on that topic?

Thx!

Neil-

I want them at the floor. That's where we need to be to land the next elite player, and still be able to pay the young guys.

I'd much rather them be cheap now, trade Lubo(which is turning out to have been good for the team), and wait for the goalie prospect(s) to flourish. Blowing their prospects and cash for some has-been that'll be good for a year and drain our cash reservers for the furture is no way to do modern hockey business.

Neil, citation please: "Lombardi has recently disclosed that he had to trade Visnovsky because the owners were considering selling a portion of the team and wanted payroll down."

???

Quisp,

Do you really believe the things you mentioned in your last post - about the Lubo trade

Anthony, I didn't mention it. I'm quoting Neil. See above.

To clarify: I want to know where Neil's getting that DL quote from. Although I have a pretty good idea. [insert punch line here.]

Quisp,

Well, do you still buy it.
It sounds quite incredible.

Perhaps a better indication of how our team defense is doing (that includes goaltending) would be to use the average goals per game rather than save %. In 26 gammes the Kings have averaged 2.77 goals against (while scoring 2.65). This is 11th in the league.

It should be noted that the goals against average does not mirror the standings nearly as well as the goals for average.

You want a source? Are you accusing me of making it up?

Well here you go:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/doubt+about+Doughty/1013378/story.html

Anything else, Quisp? You want the actual quote? OK here THAT is:

"Two teams were seriously in the hunt for Lubomir Visnovsky last July, the Oilers and the team down the road, in Calgary.

"It was all money, we couldn't keep his $7 million (salary), and that was when there was talk that we might be selling to the (Boston) Celtics. That's when I got my marching orders (to reduce payroll),"said Kings general manager Dean Lombardi, who took Jarret Stoll and Matt Greene back. I wanted guys in a certain age group (25ish), who could grow with the others."

Then the Kings had to scramble to reach the NHL salary floor of $40 million. "I was getting calls from the league ... 'You know, you guys are under the cap.' The thing came full circle," laughed Lombardi."

Anthony, nah, I don't. I think Lubo was traded because in the big picture Doughty made Lubo unaffordable (in the long run) and redundant. If the Kings don't finish 29th, no Doughty, no need to make room to pay Doughty, in addition to Hickey, et al. I think DL looked down the road and said, "I'm covered on small and fast; time to get big." And of course we can debate the wisdom of the trade (and have!) at length. But bottom line for me, I think it was a hockey trade, addressing hockey concerns, not an AEG cost cutting measure.

Although I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory from time to time.

Quisp, why don't you conspire to read my link where I show what I said - Lombardi admits he had to move Lubo as those were his MARCHING ORDERS. So you can drink the kool aid and believe it was just a hockey move, but you'd be disagreeing with Lombardi, the guy who made the move.

I stand completely and utterly corrected. And I'm sorry for the snark. I especially enjoy a good conspiracy theory when it turns out to be true.

Or, as Robert Downey Jr said (in a similar moment) in True Believer, "Does this mean the phone company killed Kennedy?"

Neil,

Marching orders to trade Lubo is one thing, - but trading Lubo in order to not sell a portion of the Kings to Boston is another.

I give you credit for your fine research.

Note: This could have been avoided if Dumbo wouldn't have signed Lubo to a ridiculous contract.

Its a tie between Neil & Quisp.

Neil, re "why don't you conspire to read my link":

Our comments were overlapping. I didn't see your comment (with the link and the quote) until after I responded to Anthony's comment. My apology came immediately thereafter. Then I refreshed and read your "conspire to read my link" comment.

Anthony -

I don't know. I find that DL quote shocking. That's seriously f***ed up. Does anyone remember what DL said about the trade at the time? Is this not a contradiction of what he said previously?

Quisp,

I wouldn't put anything past Dumbo.
He's capable of a lot things, including lying.
His contract is running out and he wants an extension with the kings.
I get the feeling that he regreted the contract he offered to Lubo and ownership called him idiot for it.
Then he scrambled like crazy to trade him.
Fortunately he found another GM down to his level who took Lubo off his hands.
BTW Keven Lowe is no longer a GM for the oilers.
Edmonton owners knew he was a joke, hopefully AEG will realize the same.
Your insticts on DL is correct.
Most Kings fans are figuring him out now.

Neil,

Going by your theory, look at Osgoods GAA. He's at something like .876. With your reasoning Detroit must really suck but Osgood is something like 11-1.

Neil - Awesome research and a shocking revelation that so many were mocked for stating without proof.
It must also shed some light on the situation with Cammalleri who was alienated, then trashed by the fans. Here you had a guy that always performed for the club that drafted him, but was never backed when fans started to point the finger.
I don't know why Lombardi's revealing these things now, or if he had a choice in matters, but hopefully he's gained the upper-hand from Leiweke and won't be painted into a corner from which everyone exits looking like fools.
I actually have to give Lombardi some credit for allowing himself to take heat for so long when it's really Leiweke who's making fools of us all.
I miss some of the faces of yesterday but hope that this rebuild stuff really makes the team respectable again. I, for one, love an underdog and think these young guys should ALL be proud of themselves - unlike the AEG dogs of propaganda and marketing.

Anthony - Lombardi is only guilty of keeping things under wraps in this case. Professionalism is required for coaches, managers, and players - Unfortunately it's not for Mr. Leiweke.
Lombardi has made some really questionable moves, and I've hammered him repeatedly for them, but i'd love to see you turn your venom on Leiweke. The Galaxy is a good cross-reference example of what this man knows about sports and sports-business. He's like one of the CEO's of the failing companies. He has too much financial support from Anschutz to fail quickly, so he grinds things to dust with his crap management ideas and his meddling.
He's also said he's given Lombardi the reins, which obviously he hasn't. AEG was in the news a few weeks back and rumored to be interested in purchasing Newcastle FC in England, and what he's really trying to do is build BRANDs that are marketable world-wide.
I'm glad that fans are staying away from the arena, though I hate that the players aren't getting support, because these fools don't deserve to profit from this enterprise. They've been half-assed since buying this bargain out of the trash in the mid-90's and have steered it straight into the ground. It's amazing that we actually had Taylor put together a team that took down Detroit and nearly nipped Colorado in the year they won the cup.
The only thing I hold against Lombardi at this point is his disrespect towards Taylor in criticizing how Taylor built his teams. Taylor made lots of mistakes, but he gave us a competitive team for a while and was constantly being undermined by his own managers.

Quisp - This stuff is part of why I've been so frustrated. The moves don't make sense and sometimes I wonder what the motivation is behind moves are.

Thanks for posting that quote Neil. It certainly was an eye-opener.

I recall that Lombardi seemed particularly evasive in explaining the trade, but in reading between the lines I thought he was trying to free up room for the future rather than just saving money this season. Live and learn.

Neil, your next investigative assignment is to find out why Lombardi fired Crawford when he did. I think we all agree it was the right decision, but the timing was odd and Lombardi never gave a straightforward explanation.

anthony, have thought about addressing our gm Dean Lombardi by his proper name? Calling someone names just proves to everyone that you're a child in both intellect and disposition. All you do is whine and whine. As i've said before, i feel like you make some good points occasionally, but you're immaturity and disrespect for people on this sight (and for kings management, who are people the last time i checked) lowers your credibility.

Maybe the Crawford firing was $$ too.

I completely agree with this statement by nykingsfan:

"We are giving up the fewest shots in the league, but there are quite a few of those shots that are impossible for the goalie to save because of defensive breakdowns. He's also made some spectacular saves as well. To use save % as a barometer means you would have to equate 50 foot slapshots the same as 2 on 1's down low." That is what happens. Gauthier making a bad pass right in front...Overall our defense is great but we still have our mistakes as a young team.

I agree with Neil too. Sure Osgood can look good, behind the Redwings. Who wouldn't? I wish I could see either of our goalies behind the Redwings. They can be stellar at times too. Did anyone see Osgood in the allstar competition last year? Ugh! No Redwings in front of him.

I think we can afford to fully support these goalies. They are as good as the whole of the team. If we become a Stanley Cup contender it may not be hard to attract a #1 if none of our 5 guys in the system are up to it.

The Crawford firing was a direct result of Jimmy Hoffa missing. I'm surprised you guys didn't figure that out on your own.
Some of these posts are sounding pretty ridiculous and petty. Congrats Neil on finding the article. Next find out who's buried in Grant's tomb...Its a joke!
It gets a little ridiculous when you read posts that say that reason for Kopitar's lack of production is because of the defensemen that he's playing with. I'm too tired to look up the name on that brilliant post. The fact that he plays with Doughty...Yeah, that's a guy who will stunt anyone's offensive abilities.
The Kings are much improved from last season. I don't care what the points or the numbers say. Open your eyes and watch them play and compete every night. Sometimes you'll notice things with your eyes that stats don't tell you...
Neil K you think that GAA and SV % are the most telling stat? I guess Osgood really sucks. Really lousy save %...of course he's only lost 1 game this year.
Sometimes when you face 40 shots...maybe only 3 or 4 are difficult shots. Sometimes you face 20 shots but but 3 or 4 of those are difficult ones. If all the difficult one's go in, is one goalie really better than the other?

I agree with all the people that have ridiculed looking at a goalie's numbers to determine how good he is. In my opinion the only stat that truly matters is GAA because save percentage relies too much on how many shots the goaltender faces and as nykingfan just pointed out facing lots of easy shots can boost your save percentage but not really mean you are a better goalie. I think Ersberg has been more consistent in playing solid if not spectacular when he is in and Labarberas biggest issue is his consistency. He looks more athletic this year but seems to sometimes be scrambling too much and moving around a lot where Ersberg reminds me a little of how Bernier looked last season with his calm and controlled movements all the time. I think our goaltending has been average but is not the main issue for any losses we have any more.

In response to Kopitar's production this season, I believe he has been in a slump. His numbers are there even if they aren't as great as we may like he is leading the Kings in scoring. What is missing is the consistent domination when he is on the ice. Last season on a regular basis, his line could control the pace of play and the puck when they were on the ice and that control has been lacking this season. I buy into the explanation of the new system messing with his numbers however as scoring in general on the team is down and the players are adjusting to a new system and a new coach and there are a lot of new guys throughout the lineup as well as younger more inexperienced players that may need more time to really settle in. I believe Kopitar will rebound be it in the second half of the season or next year and be a better player for the defensive work he is learning to put in every night.

Just my two cents

Now I really don't know what to make of DL's comments regarding the Lubo trade.

This year Stoll and Greene get a combined $5.35M while Lubo makes $7M. Kings save $1.65M.

Next year Stoll and Greene get $6.383M. Lubo gets $7M. Kings save $617K.

'10-'11 Stoll and Greene make $6.383M. Lubo makes $6M. Kings lose $383K.

'11-'12 S&G make $6.383M. Lubo $5M. Kings lose $1.383M.

'12-'13 Stoll is UFA & Greene makes $2.950M. Lubo makes $3M.

So DL trades Lubo and a few months later gives the guys that he received contract increases. Over the life of the deals the kings only save $451K.

If the trade was only about $$$, what am I missing?

BBK - If you want to sell some or all of the team you need to clear expenses to make the profits look better. It's timing in this case, if this is the true story, because it sounds like another group was interested in buying in.
I know of no evidence that AEG wants out of the Kings, but I doubt there's anyone willing to buy into Hockey right now. There are teams losing money all over and many Canadians want some of their ex-franchises back to Canada.
AEG, though, isn't in financial crisis so they'll just sit on the team until the price they set for it is met - if, of course, they even want out.
It definitely seems like Lombardi was unleashed at some point during the summer. He went on a spending spree, for sure. Of course, again, he had to get above the Salary Minimum or forfeit games.
Good Day, Sir.

BringBackKingston -

I guess one thing you didn't factor in is that it's two players instead of one. If the Kings retained Lubo, they'd still have to pay a #2 center.

I guess it's also possible that DL is just making sh*t up for the Edmonton press, but that doesn't seem likely. There has to be some truth to what he said. To me the alarming part is not that DL didn't disclose any of this back at the time, or that he lied (what!? Oh no!); it's that AEG would put him in that position in the first place, that AEG is that volatile, capricious or crazy.

Anthony, I didn't say (nor did Lombardi) that they were trying to keep payroll down to keep the Celtic group from buying IN. They wanted to keep payroll down to make the team MORE ATTRACTIVE TO BUYERS. It gets you 2 things. 1) They look better in the profit/loss area, and 2) it allows a new buyer or part owner to make their own way. If they were "capped out" for years a new owner would have a hard time changing plans.

nykingfan I didn't say the Kings weren't better. I said that their goalies are still a crapshoot. And they are. If this team was a more established force with a record of getting and keeping good goalies then maybe I wouldnt' be so concerned. But the team has been plagued with trouble in goal and you can take all your prospects and hope all you want. But it doesn't mean anything until it shows up in NHL wins.

BBKingston trading 1 player at 7 million for 2 at 6 million is a HUGE savings. It's one less roster spot on the team. Now you have two solid NHL players for the same price as 1.

As for you people shocked that Lombardi would say two different things, well you haven't been paying attention. He very carefully rattles on and on about bridges and fillers and war room meetings and building infrastructure while the NHL product got worse for 2 years and now is scraping by on a .500 record pretty much at home. He's got an explanation for everything AFTER it happens. No matter what you think, the Kings had 49% of the place up for sale this summer and cut salary FOR THAT REASON. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing. The GM tries to win and he tries to sell tickets too. Hell the Cubs get excited every spring too! Their GM's claim this is the plan THIS year every year too.

There is no reason other than money (and lack of success) that Lombardi stopped adding free agents. He ADMITTED IT. You are gonna have to trust me when I say that even Deano believes he could make this team better if he could spend all the money he wants and add good players NOW. So go ahead and be excited about this team. Fine. You are a King fan so you should do that. But I've seen King teams with far more talent and a rosy future pulling off wins that get nicknames (stunner at staples, etc) and you know what happens? Failure. Then a new plan emerges! A 3 year plan. A 5 year plan. Whatever. I'm a little tired of them and I'll believe in Bernier when I see him in the NHL stopping pucks. I'll believe in Boyle when I see him play decent in the NHL. I'll believe the Kings are on the right track when I don't have to explain what they are doing in 20th place in the league.

The Kings are playing a more defensive game. They are staying in more games that way and they do have some good young talent.

Quisp put it well that Lombardi seems to have been forced to clear salary. Of course when the alleged sales pitch was going down Stoll and Greene were much cheaper. And Gauthier wasn't on the payroll. None of the contracts were done til the deal was off the table, probably.

quisp - Look into what's been going on with the Galaxy over the past few years. They're making one bad move after another.
On a side note, I noticed during a Chelsea/Arsenal game last week that Stamford Bridge's (Chelsea's home ground) advertising boards were displaying their current motto: "Pride, Power, Passion - It's in the blood." Someone has to be a plagarist here, No? I wonder who?

Just curious, can anyone remember the last time the Sporting News had an article about the Kings during the season?

Folks, no matter who said what when, or who did what before the season started, the Kings are playing with 3 rookie defensemen, one rookie goalie, the other with one year of experience, and a third of the forwards have less than one year experience. Yet, the team is playing some of the best hockey I have seen at Staples in a long time. I thought Murray would sacrifice the kid’s development time to try and win a few extra games. He has not. He has stuck to the plan to build a team for the long term. This is a difficult path to travel with long suffering fans ready to dissect every line change in every game, but yet a critical path to maintain.
I also realize the kids are going to hit the wall in the second half of the season, and that the travel will be brutal, but I would still rather stay the course and see the kids go through the learning experience than trade for a player to make a playoff run this year.

Be patient and have faith, this going to be a great team.

I'm always late to the party. Some pretty good stuff going on here today.

Niel, pretty interesting article you got there. Thanks for sharing that with us. Also, I don't criticize the stuff you have said, most of it is pretty accurate. I also happen to be on your side with the goalie numbers. Numbers may not tell the whole story, but I also have never seen a number lie in it's meaning. Numbers do tell a story.

I feel an offensive breakthrough coming tomorrow. Kings 5 whoever they play 2. I'm going out on a limb here, and I'm going to predict a multi-goal game by the Brown line. Matter of fact, Kopitar is going to score tomorrow while there's a goalie patrolling the net. Calder's going to have 3 points. Yes I just said that! Calder with 3 points. How nice would that be?

Nykingfan,

I almost always agree with your posts but in this case I don't think you caught the fact that parts of my previous post were written tongue in cheek.

Just to be clear, I thank Neil for finding an article that gives us Kings fans a better understanding of the motivation behind the Visnovsky trade, and eventually I would love to better understand why the Crawford firing occurred when it did. I'm not trying to rehash the merits of either move, and I'm not interested in conspiracy theories. I'm just curious as a fan.

I totally agree that this year's team is much improved from last year, and I thoroughly enjoy watching them play. That was definitely not the case in either of the two previous seasons, and it was not my expectation for this season either. I have been very pleasantly surprised.

As the Sporting News said, we are indeed ahead of schedule.

Quisp & ETR,
I don't doubt there were discussions with a new (minority?) partner, or that DL was told to reduce payroll, and I get reducing payroll to make business look more profitable when opening the books.

Just to play a little devils advocate here...
I'm not sure how all the business transactions work between the owners, but it could have been Ed Roski (i think that is the minority owner) that was looking to sell rather than Uncle Phil. Only they really know. But sure doesn't seem like the itch to sell the current owner(s) had lasted long if DL had the green light a few months later to sign guys like Greene, Stoll, Kopitar, Sully to multi-year contracts.

Quisp, if DL kept Lubo I'm not sure he would have needed to go out and get a #2 center. You have Kopitar, Army, and Zues through the middle (same as the year before). Any combination of Zeiler, Richardson, or Boyle could have filled in on the #4 spot.

It just strikes me as odd (not saying that it isn't true)that the Lubo trade and the reduction in salary occurred in the same breath. If I'm trading Lubo to reduce payroll and to make the books look nice for prospective owners, I can see trading for Greene who had a cheap salary for 1 or 2 more years but I can't see trading for Stoll who you need to re-sign because he was a RFA at the time. I would think any prospective owner would see that you have to sign the guy to some kind of increase. And if you aren't going to sign him, a $500K scrub would be better than nothing.

i love lamp.

...and to think that all these comments came after a 3-0 win...

Jon G
that was meant more as a joke... Sorry about that. Re-reading your post, I get what you are saying.
There are a million things going on behind the scenes that we'll never really know what the true story is.
You're right, we never got a really good answer on the Crawford firing. I thought it was because he wasn't good with the young players and they were going to try a different approach..less yelling more teaching. It could be more though. I don't know that DL will ever really tell us the reason for it, if it was something else.

After all that this franchise has been through, I can't understand how people can still feel negative towards the direction of the team. I understand prospects are just prospects, but we haven't had top notch prospects in our system for a long time. The possibility exists that they may turn out to be great players. There's hope...There has been no hope around here for decades.
Our goaltending situation has been bad since the great flood, but the possibility of our young goalies being what many scouts think they will be is encouraging to here. It will take time, but I can be patient if I'm seeing progress both on the Kings and with the young players in the pipeline. So far DL has given us no reason to believe he doesn't know what he's doing.

nykingfan, the reason why people are skeptical is because we've been there before. 41 times. This is a franchise that has tried it all. It's a franchise that had Wayne and all his friends come in and they couldn't win. It's a a franchise that had Rogie and Dionne and the triple crown line sneaking into a first round playoff loss when 16 of 21 teams made the post season. It's a franchise that waited on Pavel Rosa and Jamie Storr. That developed players like Robitaille and Blake and got to see them leave to win cups then come back and not help out much. It's a franchise that waited on Allison and Deadmarsh and 100 other "plans".

Although you don't see it now, if you put yourself back in the Allison era the team was flying high at times and one good physical therapy session away from dominance. EVERYONE believed the team was on the right path. When Storr came along same thing. When the team drafted high over all these years every prospect was gonna be THE MAN. And if you could go back in time you'd find people happy with the GM, hopeful for the future and claiming "this time" was different. Just like you are doing now!

You could be right. But then again so could all those other people 40 different times. The team has pieced together a fairly erratic .500 record (though truthfully with the OT wins counting it's NOT .500) which is only slightly ahead of last years team. Losing "closer" is not really a big consolation to me.

And the true fact is this. This is year 3 of Lombardi's plan and it sure as hell seems to be a whole new plan. Last year and the year before he was calling Visnovksy and Frolov "core" members. Then what happened? Now they are too expensive. He was ordered to cut salary so all of a sudden Visnovsky is not in the core and Frolov never gets mentioned in the core anymore. I know it's old stuff by now, but this is a guy that signed Handzus for 4 years a while back, around the time he was signing Cloutier. Two guys that make no sense in the new "grand scheme". What will the scheme be this time next year? Last year Visnovsky and Frolov were in the grand scheme, this year one is out and the other on the fence. I don't think it's coincidence that the "core players" are now either guys that they are able to sign to pretty cheap long deals or players not yet at or near their RFA rights.

The statement you make "there has been no hope around here for decades" tells me you are a young fan or a new fan. Not trying to be insulting, just stating facts. King fans are all hope and most October, November and Decembers hope remains alive. The chanting for another first pick in the draft usually starts in full bore by February. Check back then and see if I'm wrong.

Now cue my music because I AM OUT!