Last night's quotes

IMHO I think Kopitar needs a reality check maybe a healthy scratch for a couple of games might do the trick

Labarbera is right, they got a huge bounce at the drop of the puck, he was in net.

Murray is fast becoming a joke. How can he not call out guys by name after this game as he has done so glaringly with Frolov a few games ago? I wouldn't mind seeing Kopitar dropped to the 4th line or even sit a couple of games. I wouldn't mind seeing Brown dropped with him. I wouldn't mind seeing Ivanans gotten rid of in any manner. I don't ever want to see Calder anywhere near the top 2 lines. If LOLBarbera were to be waived and released I wouldn't care if they brought a cadaver in to take his place. That would be a major upgrade. The list is almost endless at this point. His coaching decisions are ridiculously messed up at this point. The Kings are unwatchable now.

We had the top ranked defense in the league before last night.

I'm pretty sure one bad game is not going to change that stat very much.

I say regardless we are still on track, I'm still impressed with the season so far.

The reason Kopi's numbers are down is that he's playing a different game. He's still good in my book.

Once again, the sign of whether this team is truly improving and growing will be how they bounce back in their next game against STL on Thursday, whom should be a bit bruised and sore after playing the Quacks tonight.

They need to tie Labs elbows to the corners of the net...STAY! that way he'll be more effective! Is it legal?

I don't want to be the one to tell Drago he's benched, do you? Babs is a joke. Has been and always will be. Stick with Eee Zee Eee and let Babs give him a breather every couple games. 8 out of 10 for the Iceberg, 2 out of 10 for Babs. Defense was a letdown, absolutely, but Babs can't handle a rebound if his life depended on it and he just looks ridiculous. He's not a Broduer or Hasek, so he should stop pretending that he is. I hear they're making "The Proffesional #2" maybe he can go stand in for that frog actor, because his acting like a goalie is horrible.

Yeah Matt, I agree. It seems like there are a ton of fans just waiting to jump on any bad game to come out with both guns blazing about how this player or that or the coach or the gm should be tarred and feathered.

We're one game under 500. I have to think coming into the season we expected to be much worse. We have issues to sort out, but I think the progress the team has already shown demonstrates that process is moving forward.

Kings are one point under .500, but they're also in 13th place, and only two points up on Dallas who's in last place with a game at hand. True, Kings are 4 pts out of the playoffs, but most teams in the West can claim better.

I like the progress of the team compared to last year, but anyone's who's negative today about last night isn't feeling that way because of 'one bad game.' Try five or six now, maybe a couple more. Vancouver, Calgary, the 'back in black' debut against Colorado, the first SJ game, Toronto, Phoenix...

They've had great games, but that only makes it more frustrating. It's the inconsistency of this team that is so tough to watch. If last night were one bad game, we'd be in fourth place or something. But last night continued the unfortunate trend of playing well, then nosediving. They'll probably come in and beat St. Louis to get back to that magic .500 mark again, and continue the cycle. Believe me, I'd love to be wrong.

There is one positive thing we can take away from last night's game. Our forwards would do well to watch how the Avalanche forwards made themselves available to score goals down low. They didn't just stand at the edge of the crease and lock sticks with our D, they moved to exploit seams in our (admitedly awful) defense.

Our forwards go to the net and for the most part they just take up space. Not to pick on Calder, but he's the worst culprit on the team. How often have we seen losse pucks in front of the other team's goalie and our guys can't get their sticks loose or they are in too tight to lift the puck over the goalie's pads.

I hate when people say were are doing better then expected be happy blah blah. What am I happy about? That eventually Dallas will pass us and we'll be last place in the division again? Why does everyone seem to forget we have played a majority of our games at HOME. Why does everyone seem to forget that?

Excuse me, I think I clicked a LGK link by mistake here.

Jeez guy settle down. "The Iceberg" ran into a blowtorch and melted the last time he got a start.

Labs isn't better or worse, just different. Neither is an NHL star but their stats are middle of the pack so they're not the biggest issue.

While you're complaining about 6 goals against, how about looking at another stunning fact...ONE goal for.

You're not going to win many games scoring one goal so we have two issues to work on. Hopefully Murray and the other coaches can figure it out.

They're still a better team than last year so I think it's going in the right direction. Kings fans have had a loser for so long that I understand the impatience but look at it from a distance and look at the core guys we have here. It's just got to be put together somehow.

Rich,

Any word on Army? Someone claiming to know Purcell's mom has posted on the boards that he's been called up.

Perhaps the lesson last night, from a fan's perspective, is "don't care so much."
If the team isn't going to be concerned with respectability, why should a fan "buy in?" Maybe attendance is a reflection that people have realized this.

The money quote from JLB is, "Three or four of those goals were pretty good bounces." That's pretty funny.

It was a bad game. I wouldn't read too much into it. It's true that JLB is inconsistent, sometimes brilliant (three games ago), sometimes...uh...not. It's true that Kopitar is not playing very well.

But look at the shot chart for the game. Most of the Kings shots are coming from the point by the boards, which is pretty much the lowest % shot there is (inside the blue lines, anyway). The COL goals were on shots in the middle/low slot or inside the crease. You have to look at the centers and the d when that happens. Even with all those "bounces."

I do think that one of Murray's true virtues is patience, but in the case of Kopitar, I think patience is not a virtue. It's reasonable to break up Kopitar and Brown at this point, just to see what happens.

I wouldn't be bringing up any goalies at this point. Our two will have to do for now. I think you bring Bernier up in a month or so, when the team is ready. If the team is never ready, leave him down there.

Frolov/Handzus/Moller is our de facto #1 line. I would follow them with POS/Stoll/Brown. Put Kopitar with Simmonds and Richardson/Calder.

I really, really would like to see Purcell and Lewis, though. Just for fun.

As an Islander fan who watches lots of Kings hockey, I find Murray bad for your team. No offense and you are an offensive team. I don't get it.

Dan,

An Islander fan who also watches Kings hockey? I feel for you, bro.

Kings have played twice as many games at home as on the road and are still under .500 so I think there are
some reasons for concern. Kopitar has taken a big step back so far this season.

I think the home/road thing is overblown. Yes, playing on the road is an adjustment, but it's also a bonding experience, fewer distractions, etc.. A home stand can be great for a team, or it can be horrible; there's more pressure playing in front of the home crowd. And it's not thirty years ago, when teams had real home ice advantages (Boston Garden with its short neutral zone and a Bruins team tailored to play there, etc.).

Quisp,

I see your point, but someone else pointed out that perhaps our team will suffer away from home more because they're not used to good ice. It's just a theory, but if it does create problems adapting the team's game, the road might be a hard one.

Also, I know it's not really an issue, but why did Murray start off the game double shifting O'Sullivan/Stoll/Simmonds? Is it just trying to get an early jump cuz you think the Avs are susceptible to this line, or does it show a lack of trust for the other lines?
And, why didn't Ivan get sent in for some payback for Armstrong in a blowout?
Finally, for this comment, could Boyle have learned his lesson yet? I hope so.
One positive about this game is that Murray may sense the playoffs aren't going to happen and start giving more time to the Purcells, Lewises, Boyles, and Martinezes. If we're going to school all year they may as well do it here.
It would be great if Rich could get some Lombardi-time to sense if he may want to add some experienced help for the schooling.

After Neil K's scoop on the Visnovsky trade the other day and the team's form over the past 2 weeks, the Panic Button under my finger is feeling rather warm.

Dan H.

Pal, 6 goals scored by any team in one game in the NHL is a lot and doesn't happen very often. What does that tell you? If you're not getting it, get this, Labarbara SUCKS! He's a friggin bum and should be shown the door TODAY.

Bring up a kid and let him play, I don't even care which one you call up.

thank god EAT THE RICH and others who want to hit the Panic Button aren't running the show, that's the last thing this team needs. Why repeat the past?

You guys are way too funny and completely out of control.

Leave Kopitar and Brown alone. They are learning to play under a new system that preaches defense first. They are going to have less offensive opportunities when they are thinking defense first. I have seen Kopitar as the 1st forward back in the defensive zone more this year than ever before. Is he a perfect 2 way player? Of course not, but he's learning and will be a better player in the future because of it.
Scratch Kopitar or drop him to the 4th line? Insanely ridiculous!
The sky is falling mentality is pretty funny. Maybe we should trade our young players and prospects for some good ole re-treads? Who knows, maybe we can slip into the 8th spot if we want to mortgage the future. Would that make you happy?
You can't have it both ways. If you want to see this team become great, you are going to have to live with the maddening inconsistencies that come with youth and inexperience. If you don't have the stomach for that...leave now.
Every loss that this team has, is supposed to be a learning tool for the future. Rome wasn't built overnight and the Kings aren't going to win the cup this year. If things work out the way DL thinks they will, maybe a cup will be in the near future..something we can all realistically hope for.
I was lsitening to Peter McNabb, the Avs announcer and Tony Granato before the game. They both feel that the Kings are a year or 2 away from being an elite team. If they can see that, why can't you?

The Kings are head and shoulders above what they have been for many years. The plan we all agreed had to be done still seems to be in force so we all knew there would be tough games. To accurately decide " bubble players "...Labs being one I know I would like more than a couple dozen games to decide my future. Let the team do what their internal game plan is, TM is doing a good job overall from a fan perspective not being in the room or meetings and just remember it appears that we are on a faster than predicted schedule so far. Bouncing back is important, but for us this season making sure the peices that are to be our foundation are right. Labs, Calder, Zeiler and the big 2 on defense...G & P all will not be here after January is my own prediction. Last comment for those looking for JJ....he has been no where near the player Doughty is since he came to LA...so do not expect any miracles there. He may not last here so do not be suprised if he moves.

This team is not just inconsistent from game to game, but from period to period. They have to learn that hockey is a 60-minute game!

In response to nyking - do you recall Scotty Bowman making Fedorov play defense when he thought he was not playing as well as he should have? Same with Kopitar. He's not playing well no matter what the system he is supposedly still learning is. Sure he plays well on the defensive side and yes, he backchecks, but if you can honestly say you think his offensive game is anywhere near where it should be and what we have seen it to be, you've got a blindfold on. He needs to be dropped to the 4th line b/c he's playing like a 4th liner - good D and very little offense. Of course some folks may just like watching his little dance he does while stickhandling aimlessly on the PP. You know the one where he has 5-6 steps to the center of the ice available and never takes them?

Ha, didn't the Kings and LaBarbarella shut out the Blue Jackets the game before this?

Geeeeeessshh.

ny'er/Mike - Thank God fans like you are getting your way.
I thought a good indicator of a team's place in the league was the standings.
Talk on and on about "prospects" and "farm systems" while it's the team in front of you stumbles along.
Last night was an embarrassment.
NY'er talks ad naseum about Boyle not deserving minutes and yet supports Kopitar's recent display of form.
If you don't sense that this team could COMPLETELY crumble, you're not facing the truth about the situation.
The defensive game is gone, and there's nothing left to fall back on.
How does anyone believe themselves when saying the Kings look great for the future. Don't you realize there are 29 other teams that have NHL players, many of the same age as the Kings.
The whole league is much much weaker than it was 4 years ago yet you continue to rattle on and on about how great this team is and all others pale in comparison.
Don't forget the Genius who hired Lombardi, and Lombardi's mistakes at finding the right coach and the right players in the market.
If you think there's no way that Leiweke got it wrong, I don't know what rock you're living under.
As far as the rhetoric. If you work for the Kings like I suspect some of the commenters do, make it known. Don't use this as an advertising board trying to sell this team. There's enough paid advertising going on for a bad product.

Even if this team was winning President's Trophies, there's no guarantee they'd ever win a cup. Check the Bruins, St. Louis, and Chicago's histories out.
How this mess is better than Taylor's team before he lost his 3 best players is a mystery to me.

au contraire, the Kings are now a defensive team trying to make sure they have enough offensive production on a nightly basis, as opposed to the opposite: an offensive team trying to find enough defense. I think it's a good change, otherwise they would have fewer wins and even less 1-goal games.

don't expect the same mold as last season

The Kings are head and shoulders above what they have been for many years.

I have a hard time someone would post this without getting paid for it. What are you talking about? Honestly.

Tito - the key word in your post is Blue-Jackets.

Stormy - It wouldn't be worrisome if Kopitar WERE playing good defense. He's not doing anything well right now. Did his dad leave town or what? He needs some help.

It is true that Brown and Kopitar, and others are learning a COMPLETELY different style of playing with this coach. I am concerned that people like Kopitar and Sully may not be made for this type of play. But since we are so young I am willing to wait it out. Having said that, a -3 and 1 shot on goal is NOT a good night for Kopitar.

Labs was not good but he is NOT the reason we lost. It goes back to the quality of chances. Who lets Ryan Smyth stand 6 inches in front of the net waiting for a pass. Our sticks were never on their sticks. The got clean shots, unlucky for us bounces...Labs behind the net flubbed it but why did the Avs player go behind to challenge him for the puck while our to guys were in the middle of the ice not on the boards. DANGEROUS MISTAKES!!!

JonG,
Don't feel bad for us Islanders/Kings fans. Remember, we won 4 cups in a row in the early 80's! Enough to endure the past 25 years of bad hockey by both clubs!

TAC,

What is your sense of where the Islanders are headed? I don't watch many of their games, but in looking over their roster I see an oft-injured goalie and very little else.

ETR
You seriously thought this team was good enough to compete on an elite level this season..or anything close to it?
Based on what? They're a young team learning how to play a new system. They needed to cut down their GAA in a big way. They've done that so far this year. Defense wins in all sports. Hockey's no different. The old Edmonton teams are a thing of the past.
They are not going to master this system in 3 months, which is how long they've been playing it. Kopitar has been an offensive minded player his whole life..It may take him a little longer than 3mos to get comfortable with it. Right now, how can you possibly expect him to score on the same level as he's done in the past? I have no idea if you've played hockey, but learning to do things opposite of what you've always done, is quite difficult. Think about in your work if you are given something completely different than what you're used to, and being told to master it in 3 mos. Give the guy time. He may not be comfortable with it until next season..who knows, but he's way too talented and smart not to be able to pick this up and succeed. He's not Federov, he's Kopitar..Don't compare him to other players.that's being silly. He's a special player and we're lucky to have him.

I am not an employee of the Kings or anything remotely related to sports. I wish I was..don't we all?

You talk about 29 other teams in the league with talented players...Like anything else..some are better than others. I can only go by outside "experts" who have raved about the Kings prospects. They know more than me or you.
The Islanders are a young team trying to rebuild through the draft, but they are a couple of years behind the Kings and don't have close to the young talent in their system that we do. I live on LI. It's easy access to Islanders news.

Leiweke is certainly no rocket scientist when it comes to hockey or talent, but I think he got it right with Lombardi. From everything we hear and read..including in SJ is that he's a bright hockey guy and has the talent to turn the organization around. Lets give him the time needed to make this work.

NY'er -

I'm so fed up I can't organize my thoughts.
I think it's bad enough that my team sucks without fellow fans saying, "leave now."
I know many of you think being critical is being negative, but did you ever think that we're so F'ing sick of seeing the coaches and managers bending us over that we get angry?
I don't want Lombardi fired because he's already cut half my heart out. WHy leave now?
I don't want Murray fired because this madness has got to make sense at some point, right?
One thing I don't understand is why you even counter our negativity if you're so sure the future is bright.
Criticism I can understand because there's nothing a fan can do. Frustration I can understand because some people, who know the game, feel they could actually do a better job than the current leadership - just as in politics. Before you go mocking this statement remember who's the governator of CA and who was President in the 80's.
As for Leiweke, there's nothing there. The man is a fool with financial backing, that's all. I've no doubt you or I would be a better President of the team. What makes you think he knows anything about hockey (or soccer for that matter)? Rest assured that your man who hired Lombardi hasn't a clue.

Experts? If they were experts they'd actually have hockey jobs and wouldn't be writers. You really trust the media more than a knowledgeable fan of the team? WHy? Writers get paid to stir the pot and keep us interested. The entire Kings rhetoric campaign is being waged to keep us from walking out as fans. Do you think they're being honest or that they're doing a job called "selling?" Selling is what writers and experts get paid to do.

I know you're not, nykingsfan, but there are others that I think are on the payroll - that comment above wasn't directed at you.

Finally, I do think the Kings should be making the playoffs this year. I think we've got 3 greats in Kopi, Fro, and Brown, with a budding O'Sullivan and a very good yet unproven JJohnson. I know Moller and Simmonds can't be counted on to push for the playoffs as they're so young, but I like them as permanent NHL guys (despite the immature bodies), a lot. I think Lombardi hosed our defense though. I'm glad he didn't sign any big FA's that are injured, but our defense is way too young, way too inexperienced, and way too one dimensional.

PS - I didn't slam Kopitar, though I did say something is up. As far as 3 months to learn to play defense, that's a poor argument. The Kid came in lighting it up for 2 season. Any fool can be taught to defend in minutes, they just have to be committed to it in order to do it right.

I can't proofread again, sorry if this is confusing.

I think it is hilarious that everyone is so quick to crucify Murray.... Tell me, what coach could we have picked up that would be doing better right now?????? I think this team is doing better then any of us expected. There is not one of you out there that can say you thought our defense could have ever performed this well. Nevermind Murray, we will see tomorrow night how good our captains are doing in the room.

Eat -

I will just say up front that, having become over the last several weeks pretty familiar with your oeuvre, I think the point of contention between you and whoever else in these various comments (myself included) is not that you are stupid, insane, or even just plain wrong, it's how over-the-top emotional you get when stirred up by Kings-related input. It's very much like being in a relationship fight where in the heat of the moment you blurt out all these horrible things that in the light of day you don't even really mean, or you mean it but not to the degree of intensity you put on it at the time.

It's not being critical that's a problem. It's being irrational. Or, if that's too broad (since nobody likes to be called irrational), I guess I would say that you do seem to fly off the handle with very little provocation. Some of that is attributable to message-board-itis, where everything seems contentious and amplified. But it does seem to go beyond that at times.

I get the feeling you think I am one of the people who is on the payroll. I guess my check has been lost in the mail. As far as being a "glass half full" Kings fan, I would only say in my defense that I can be (and have been) as negative as anyone here about various Kings players, coaches, GMs and owners over the years*. I'm relatively unprovoked with this bunch. Also, in 1979, the Bruins lost game seven to the Canadians and I broke my bicycle in two in anger (I think I lost a $20 bet). Now I have a kid and I'm trying to model restraint.

*Blake, Kevin Stevens, Rich Tocchet, Grant Fuhr (in a Kings uniform only), Mikko Makela, Roman Vopat, Barry Melrose, Sam McMaster, Ray Ferraro (though that was mostly not his fault; he was cast in a role he couldn't fill; and I irrationally hate the tilt-up visor thing). The flip-side...people I liked: (besides the obvious ones, Luc, Dionne, Nichols, Sandstrom, Granato, 99, etc.), Dave Taylor (both as player and GM), McIntyre, LaCroix, Deadmarsh, Robert Lang, Storr (yeah he crapped out, but there was one season there where he was among the best in the league, if only with a handful of games), Legace, Reinprecht, Aaron Miller before the injuries, Felix '01/'02, Belanger (not Ken), Jim Fox, Jimmy Carson the first time around, Millen and Donnelly, Gleason, Smolinski, Zhitnik, Lubo... Mark Hardy...

If there's a common theme there, I guess there is a relative absence of prima donnas on that list.

Anyway, just because I happen to like what Lombardi is doing, doesn't mean I'm a shill. I just agree with it.

4thlinechecker, re "There is not one of you out there that can say you thought our defense could have ever performed this well.

I can say it. I did say it.

August 22, 2008:

"In response to the general freakout over the d and also in response to the question "does anyone seriously think this team can contend for a playoff spot?" --

Sure. I do.

I really think people are freaking out (consciously or unconsiously) over the absence of famous, familiar names. Blake, Visnovsky, Stuart, Modry (yes, even Modry). Of those four players, only Modry had a good year last year. The others sucked for all (Lubo) or half (Blake, Stuart) of the year. These guys were not the cornerstone of anything. They were the problem.

Now you've got:

Doughty/Greene
Martinez/Johnson
Gauthier/Preissing
Harrold

I'm assuming the Kings will add a vet (Schneider, please). If they do this, the d looks like this:

Doughty/Greene
Gauthier/Johnson
Schneider or other vet d/Preissing
Harrold or Martinez

In general, I think any d corps with more than one rookie is vulnerable to attack. Therefore, the version of the Kings d with both Doughty and Martinez raises some red flags. But the version with the added vet looks solid to me.

Of course, if you think Gauthier sucks (I like him) then you've got your new Modry to kick (I liked Modry too). And I think the Greene acquisition was a good one.

I guess what I would say, to sum up my point of view on this, and why I think the Kings will finish closer to 20 than 30, is the following:

-- addition by subtraction of Blake and Lubo.
-- Gauthier and Greene are good additions. They are big and snarly.
-- Preissing was +500000 for OTT and will be good this year on a team that:
-- is coached by someone who emphasizes defense, played defense, and believes in defense first.
-- as a subset of that, Crawford and his activated D was a disaster. Just getting rid of that "exciting" plan is a step in the right direction.
-- Mark Hardy.
-- if Martinez is ready, he's going to surprise people.
-- Drew Doughty.
--the goaltending. I believe (hope) Bernier and Ersberg will be the goalies this year. Maybe Labs starts the season to show off his new physique, and then gets dealt at the height of his prowess. Certainly Labs will get dealt eventually and it's just a matter of when and how. I'm betting it's sooner rather than later. In any case, improved goaltending and improved defense and coaching that is more defensive-minded in nature will all feed off each other.

The end result will be better defense. More wins."

[a general freakout ensued, in which Cristobal emptied his phaser banks on me; I responded thusly:]

"There's really no point in trying to convince you; we'll see soon enough. I'm pretty sure the Kings defense will be better this year than last year, by every conceivable yardstick. By that I mean, goals against, team +/- and wins.

But, like I said, we'll soon see. I make no claim to being always right on these matters. Quite the opposite. But you act like the claim itself (that the Kings d will be improved this year) is risible on its face, when it's not. Counter-intuitive maybe, but it's not nonsense.

Martinez and Harrold are good with the puck. Blake was, over the course of his career, good with the puck. But we're talking about this year vs. last year. Blake was not good with the puck last year. He didn't win the Norris Trophy last year. He might have a good season this year. But that's immaterial. We're comparing what we have now to what happened last year, and what Blake did last year isn't going to change. The bar is set very low. I think our current group will do better."

4thlinechecker - I have to wonder if you've been paying attention the past two weeks. The defense has disappeared along with the scoring.
Joel Quennville comes to mind.
I always dreamed Igor Larionov would come and take us to the promised land.
I really don't want to crucify Murray, though. He's here, I want him to figure it out. That's what we all want. Maybe all the conversation makes it look like we're over reacting, but that WAS an ugly game and it's been 2 ugly weeks.

Quisp, I never for a second thought you work for the Kings. I'm talking about people coming on here and posting propaganda comments that don't address anything that's going on with the team. Any version of the, "we're guaranteed a cup in 2010 because so and so said this..."

Also, I admit that at the beginning of the season I couldn't believe what a strong game the Kings were bringing, but I haven't seen that game for a while. I actually think Murray's defense is starting to unravel due to the need to score going unmet. Armstrong's injury and the goal occurred because Armstrong was hanging back defending when he should have been grinding into the corners to maintain a cycle. Without the pressure down low the Avs cleared the zone and the defensively postured Armstrong was the first to chase down a puck dumped into the corner and got ambushed with the forecheck. Textbook.
Let's wait til all is said and done to praise the defense.
Good Day, Sir.

Cheers

ps - i've never been angry during commenting here at anyone. i probably laughing at those times you think i'm pissed. this isn't important enough to get upset about in my opinion. i know it's irrational, but its games like last night that get me steaming, or at least incredulous.

Quisp-

I always appreciate your observations, but Schneider? From that perspective, it looks like we need a solid defensive d-man. What about someone like McLaren? I would think the Kings would need to go for someone in the short term at a cheap price.

Ersberg, everything in my above comment is a quote from August.

I gotcha. I quickly scanned through the posts, and missed that part. My bad.

Otherwise, I would be, you know...insane.