Quick to start

Nice. This will be a more realistic test for

Lambs is toast.
He really humiliated Murray in that Buffalo game.
What a spot to be in as a head coach.
There is nobody in net worthy of starting for this team right now.
Deano?

Glad Quick gets the start.Just wanted to wish you and your staff A Merry Christmas And A Wonderful New Year! Thank`s again for all your hard WORK!

I really like what Terry Murray has done this season, but he sure can rev up the BS meter from time to time. He didn't put Quick in against Detroit "to see what he could do", he put him in because there was no other viable choice.

NICE. This will be a more realistic test for Quick. If you ask me, I feel he played as well as the situation allowed. If we play with the same effort displayed in the Detroit game, we will come out victorious against Columbus. We have to be realistic with this team. We are not that good yet. We win with effort and heart. Bad news is there's other teams out there that play with great effort and heart, that have more skill than we do. I like to compare the Kings to the PAC-10(football). Nobody's great(albeit SC), but if you don't show up and play a solid game, anybody in the PAC-10(Kings)will defeat you, with effort and heart.

Go Quick, Go Kings

Eat,

Give Quick a chance. That's what he's here for. This is very good news. As I said after the wings game, you expect him to be nervous in his first start of the year, in Detroit of all places (as opposed to JLB, who, as I said, seems to be constantly nervous for no reason). He did good. We didn't win, but if Murray gives him some starts, at least we will see what we have. Remember, the team is playing good defense, usually much better than they did against Detroit. It's not a "throwing the guy to the wolves" situation.

Ersberg's injury gives the Kings an opportunity they wouldn't have otherwise had. They can get Quick, Bernier and even Zatkoff if need be, into some games, without having to make a harsh decision re JLB...just yet.

No trades!

The ideal situation is for Quick to prove himself over the next ten. Then, when Ersberg comes off IR, they can release JLB. If they're inclined to return Zatkoff to Ontario, then JLB can back up Bernier in Manchester. But otherwise (and preferably) keep Zatkoff in Manchester, in which case there's no room for Jason anywhere. Bernier and Zatkoff can spilt the time in Manchester (or give most of the games to Bernier, probably a better idea). Then, we'll be in a position where we have four goalies -- Quick, Bernier, Ersberg, Zatkoff -- all of whom are waiver-exempt, and so can be called up or sent down at will. And DL/TM should do so. Let them all play. Let's see what we have. Let the hot goalies stay. Let the cold ones play in Manchester until they're hot and/or someone else cools off. I swear to [the goalie gods...jacques plante? I guess "I swear to Gump" has a ring to it...p.s. that's Worsley, not Forrest], if we do this, something great will come of it.

thank goodness for Quisp and Duckhunter! It appears that the intricacies of the game of hockey are not lost on those who simply base the success of this team on wins and losses this season. I 3rd the notion that "no trades are necessary!" There are very few of us that expected this team to be as competitive as they are this season and we have not (yet?) jeopardized this team or our system. We are however getting a very good look at the tools that we do have and can make some educated decisions about their future with this organization (e.g. Labs, Purcell, Boyle, Ersberg, etc).

Stay the course Terry and Dean! The waters may get rough from time to time and some Kings fans will cry and whine and beg for you to do something - but there are those of us who believe in the process and are behind you.

Go Kings.

The ideal situation

When have the Kings EVER had the ideal situation arise in net?

Quick may have been really nervous, but I don't think he's an NHL guy. I think he's a perennial backup in the AHL.

If we don't make a move, Bernier needs to come up and stay up. He holds the fort until Ersberg's return, then he stays as the No. 2 until he unseats Ersberg.

All this would make sense if the Kings made sense.

Fish, or cut bait. One or the other.

If there is no move for a goalie, I want my 4th line and I want Labs and Zeilz sent to Manchester where they belong and I don't ever want to see an AHL caliber player on our Big Club again. And I want Ivan NOT to start EVERY game, especially against Detroit.

I do like this move, lets see what Quick has, particularly with the Jackets hurting and Brassard out for the season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3787193

One other thing and I wanted to say it on one of the other strings....Don't trade for a "No. 1" goalie. Like many of the others have said, there really aren't any clear cut No.1's out there any more. Most of the duties are shared. It isn't worth selling out the Kings future or any of our draft picks for a maybe, a used washed up retread or an unproven rookie which the Kings have plenty of in the wings. Sick with the plan, it's paying off dividends right now. Ersberg's injury was indeed a tragedy but is not the end of the world. Something was going to have to happen to clear the jogjam at Manchester. This is the perfect time to see what Quick has at the NHL level, to get Bernier more time in net at the AHL and to see what Zatkoff has who was burning up the ECHL. Ersberg will be back, hopefully soon although groin injuries for hockey players really take time to heal, especially for goalies if they end up being rushed back into play.

Agreed with Nykingsfan, we all knew this was going to be a crucial week for LA and so far they really haven't been blown out, except for Buffalo. They could have and should have beaten SJC, NYR and Detroit, three of the best teams in the league. The Kings were in all three of those games. Quincey has been on a bit of a downer the last couple of games but he'll recover.

Life is good and with a few bounces, decent goaltending and a few less rookie mistakes the Kings would be in the playoffs right now. The end of the season is going to be brutal when we pay for having spent the first half of the season at Staples. Still tho, no complaints. Things are better than they've have been in years.

Go Kings!

ETR, for a man who usually lobbies for players to get a certain amount playing time before making any assessments, and a man who lobbied for LB, how can you say Quick is a perennial backup in the AHL after one game against Detroit. How did you come to that conclusion already.

Sense...meet Terry Murray. Terry Murray...Sense.
FINALLY!!! I was glad to see this today. I can only hope JLB has seen his last start for us. If he ever comes back, I hope it's after some serious 'conditioning' in Manchester. Nice guy and all, but we need wins! Now I'm looking forward to Tuesday..

Sweet, that's the closest Murray's ever come to calling out labs. Sounds like he has finally lost all faith in him, like everyone else has.

EAT, you've seen Quick in a few games. Give the guy a chance for cryin out loud.

Agreed with all the 'stay the course' sentiments.

A trade would be the wrong move right now, unless Atlanta was dumb enough to offer us Lehtonen for Preissing and a 2nd or something ridiculous that would never happen like that. Quick was not overmatched by the NHL. He wasn't stellar, but again, if the Kings play a full 60 minutes like they did against SJ and NY, then we don't need stellar, only adequate, and Quick looked atleast to be adequate. We'll get a better sense of him against Columbus. He would have a win in his first start this season if the Kings hadn't slacked off the last 10 minutes of the Detroit game.

My god, haven't we become a bunch of sheep.
"Sick of the plan" is right.
I don't know how, but now the team's fans don't even want a starting goalie. Unbelievable.
What the F are they gonna do if Quick turns into Labarbara tomorrow night?
This is pathetic.

What are they gonna do if he does amazing? What about our other prospects? Maybe we just shouldn't give any of them a chance.

WE ARE STILL REBUILDING. Quick played in ONE GAME! ONE! Why shouldn't we give him the same 10 starts we gave to Lambs and Ersberg?

markisonfire - What are the realistic odds that Quick is going to be amazing for more than one game?
I don't think they're high.
If he is amazing, I'll be ecstatic, but he doesn't look like the answer to me.
He's the equivalent of Moulson, I think.
I've not seen either very much, but they're a better option than some of the current players on the team, but they really shouldn't be in the NHL if the team is being managed correctly.
It's just an opinion and it's based solely on very few looks, but the appear to be players who are valuable in cases of injury.

WE ARE STILL REBUILDING. Quick played in ONE GAME! ONE! Why shouldn't we give him the same 10 starts we gave to Lambs and Ersberg?

Dude, this is our season, not the preseason.
Why not get a proven commodity even if it's just to allow the real goalie prospects some time to adjust mentally and physically?
I think getting your young core at least 4 playoff games is a good thing, even if they're swept out.

EAT: Patience, Geeze are you kidding me, relax. this is exactly what we've been asking for. Nobody asked to sell the farm for a Goalie, well maybe the ones who don't really know what rebuilding means. Detroit destroied SJ the other night. Quick came in to his first game against Detroit and kept us in it? (right?)... Man you are all over the place. give him a chance, stop trying to sell the farm. Do you really think having Shanny for half a season maybee 2 and making the first round of playoffs just to get knocked out is worth giving up a 5th - 8th first round pick in a rebuild? Short term fixes dont fill long term goals. It just gives some people more things to complain about.

Stay the path Boys. We are building the team of the future. Like I said earlier. I like the roller Coaster.

Go Kings Go

Hey, Eat the Rich, how many Monarchs games have you seen this season? How many practices have you attended? How many chats have you had with coaches and scouts? How many times have you accurately predicted the "final resting place" for a hockey prospect?

I have a number in my head. Let's see if it's the same as your answer to these questions.

Do you really think having Shanny for half a season maybee 2 and making the first round of playoffs just to get knocked out is worth giving up a 5th - 8th first round pick in a rebuild?

I'll be patient if you stop saying I'm saying things I'm not.
I have no desire to trade our No. 1 pick.
I want a legitimate goalie for our NHL team.
Lambs could have been that guy but he's either a) reading these comments and so unsure of himself he lets it destroy his confidence, or b) he's an overmatched guy without the hand/eye coordination and the mental skills to have any consistency in a league that requires the best.

ps - do you have any idea how many quality netminders have changed teams in the past 2 1/2 years while we're waiting for our "prospect?"
Let me remind EVERYONE who won our ROLE-MODEL'S (detroit) first Stanley Cup of this era - Mike Vernon. Not someone they drafted.

EJ - What are you getting at?

The final resting place of a prospect?

It's Christmas, not Holloween.
And I've seen enough of the Zeiler/Ivanans combo.
That's all I need to know.

Eat: I never said you implied we trade our 1st pick. But if we stay this course we will get a high draft pick. If we make the playoffs just to lose we pick deeper in the first round. So lets pratice Patience...

So you are ok with tanking the season to pick 5th rather than 14th?

EAT - Unless you've been a pro scout or played the position in Jrs and higher, I think you should reserve your comments on goaltenders, I happen to belong to the union and what you're saying is, Patrick Roy shouldn't have been given his chance in 84, Glenn Hall shouldn't have been given his chance in 61, Sawchuck shouldn't have been given his chance in 1950. The thing about goaltenders is you can pretty much tell how he is going to be just by watching him move around the crease, how he moves on his skates, laterally and up and down, bottom line, his fluidness and following and feel for the puck. Also it was fun to back up "Sugar" Jim Henry.

Al, I can't have an opinion because I didn't play at a high level? How does that make any sense?
I believe I've admitted today I'm not an expert on goalies, but I have watched a ton of hockey and nothing really stood out to me about Quick.
I've never said not to give him a shot, I just think the team and the fans (AND THE COACH) deserve something dependable.
If Jon Quick turns into Patrick Roy, I'll pay for his wife's bodyguard and buy his sons some bail-bonds.

No, I'm Ok with what TM is doing and seeing what he can get out of THIS team. Moving players around to see how they are going to respond. Giving one of our future goalies a look to see if he is ready. Giving DB a chance to mentor these young kids.

Look whaqt DL did in SJ. 16 (I beleive that'swhat they said the other night)of the rostered players are home grown. If we stay the path, find that right 4th line combination, grab a high O-man this year in the draft. Were on track for the long hall.

All our kids wont make our team, but we will have the debth to tradr for high picks or young prospects that will fit in our system. Ratis, JZ, Army, JLB will all be gone. The kids will all be up next year and that's when you'll be hearing from me to have his head on a plate if he doesnt have it all figured out.

Righ now I'm excited to see how we compete every night, then come here and listning to some of the best fans in hockey. Even anthony (he does make me laugh sometimes)

Remember, the merry Go Round just goes round and round. I like the Roller Coaster. Woo Hoo

Merry X-Mass

Go Kings Go

EAT, I saw moves made by Quick the other night against Detroit that I've yet to see Labarbra make in the last two seasons. You have your opinion, you just don't know what to look for in a goaltender.

AL - So you are saying right here that Quick is going to be an NHL goaltender?
I'll remember that and hope you're correct.

Kingzzfan - I wouldn't be so sick of this if I we wouldn't have had C. Johnson, B. Chartrand, J. Guiliano, and now John Zeiler skating year after year, game after game.
It makes me angry that we skate John Zeiler more in one game then we ever skated Lauri Tukonen.
I don't want to watch this team play guys that don't fit the needs of the game, repeatedly, while capable guys are being sent to Manchester.
Zeiler is signed for 2 more years after this one.
Yay.

Eat: I feel your pain, But the reason for that is, They know what their getting with JZ, Their not asking him to score goals, he's being asked to go out and piss guys off and get under their skin, to apply pressure and keep the puck out of our zone. They know Tuk, Purc & Moll in manchester and they prooved themselves there. This is a faster game and they need to do their time and learn the d-system. Give-em time. TM is actually doing a great job at coaching (teaching) these kids how to play together and as a team. The best part is that he is building a team that high quality players will WANT to play for. THat's the one thing we'vew been missing for a very long time. Nobody wanted to come here and waist their time on a bottom feeder. Our Time is coming.

EAT, I haven't said that at all, I said I've seen moves from him that I haven't seen from Labarbra in the past two seasons. One game an NHL goatender does not make, but to get the chance to prove himself that he can be or is, is all a player asks for and unless you are never given that chance, no one would ever know. Labarbra has had more then his share. But EAT, I've already seen more talent from this kid then any Labarbra and Cloutier could muster together.

They know what their getting with JZ, Their not asking him to score goals, he's being asked to go out and piss guys off and get under their skin, to apply pressure and keep the puck out of our zone.

You can't agitate watching the 3rd period from the bench.
He has none of the tools necessary even for keeping the puck out of our zone for any length of time.
If you want an agitator, it needs to be a guy who can also play the game, like Avery.
Having a 4th line scrub who shouldn't be in the league is not having an agitator, it's having a waste of space.
I love John Zeiler and think that if you want his "jump" in the lineup you've got to pair him with two really good players.
Play him with Frolov and Zus, but don't give me a garbage line and expect me to swallow it.

Al - With all due respect, did you see the game winning goal? That was one of 5 goals against. Much worse than Labs 3 GAA and it cost us at least 1 point, if not 2 in the standings.

EAT - I guarantee you, they don't see shots in an entire game in the AHL like what he seen in Detroit and he did not cost us the game, if anything he kept us in it the whole time, the more you speak the more you're starting to sound like Anthony. Why do you think these guys coming up from the AHL to the NHL don't always fit in right away???? Because it is the highest level of play in the world. just to give you some what of an idea about a "4th" line player if I can, when I was playing I tested one one night, he was on the RW and I wanted to see just what a "4th" line NHLer could do, so I gave him just a small, very small hole from the bottom of the crossbar to the top of my left shoulder and from the inside of the left pipe to the outside of the left side of my mask, it was maybe 4"x 6" and from the right side of the circle going full tilt That's exactly where he put it. So let me also say this, what a player does in Juniors and higher levels does not mean they will succeed as an NHLer, there have been a number of great Jrs and AHLers that couldn't make the grade but they still needed that one chance. I'm sure the Kings would like to have Avery because not only could he get under the skin, but he also had hockey talent. But his personality evidently as you have heard and read like I have, was not conducive to harmony in the dressing room.

Al

In 70 NHL games John Zeiler has 1 goal, 3 assist, 4 points.
I'm sorry. I like the guy's heart.
He's "RUDY."
He's not an NHL player anywhere else.

I'm fine with Quick getting his shot, but I don't think it's really what the team wants going on right now. Not Lombardi and not Murray.
I could be wrong, but I'm sure they'd prefer to have Labarbara playing consistently and a healthy Ersberg.
I hope, as much as you, in all seriousness, that Jon Quick was just a little nervous and that the Detroit game winner was just a common, everyday bad goal by a young netminder.
Nothing would make me happier.
Unless it's Zeiler sent down, Boyle called up, and a 4th line of Purcell, Boyle, Lewis.

EAT- I don't know if you remember or ever heard of Donnie Kozak when he played for the Kings during the "Gold" uniform era, but when things were getting out of hand against the Kings, they'd put Donnie out and that would really liven things up, now understand Kozak couldn't put the puck in the ocean if he was on Manhattan beach but he could sure run around and hit everything in a non-gold uniform. I think he was with them about 3 season's. But I do agree with you on that point about "Z" Maybe he's good for the room, don't know. It's true there are a few lifetime AHLers running around with the Kings, after the Christmas hold it will get very interesting throughout the NHL. I would look to see some big stuff happening.

Al,

I don't know Kozak, love the name, but that is what Ivan should be doing. He's not bad at it, but there have been some blowouts this year and he was way too quiet in them.
Colorado was the worst.
We got embarrassed, and Ivan did nothing.

Ivan not starting fights could be as much Murray as it is Ivan.

I have no real idea, just playing devils advocate, but I would imagine that if with 5 minutes left in a blowout, Murray told Ivan to go start some sh*t, he would do it in a heartbeat. I have to imagine that Murray doesn't want the Kings to play that kind of game, for whatever reason.

Not sure I agree with that if it is something close to the reality of those game situations, but I can see the logic in teaching a team to just keep battling like the game just started instead of essentially "throwing" the game and going for a bloodfest.

But then again, if this IS Murray's philosophy, then it makes Ivans seemingly guaranteed roster spot seem all the more pointless.

Ivan has been great a few games in the last 10, I just wish he'd do it more often. Hopefully when Army and Richardson are healthy and Moller comes back, Ivan will see some press box time in certain games. Although I do see his value strictly in the intimidation factor. He doesn't actually have to hurt anybody for opposing goons to know that if they take liberties with smaller guys like Harrold or Moller, Ivan is there to back it up.

oy vey, I've got to stop forgetting to sign in... 'anonymous' comment to appear above some time or another...

Okay, lets talk about John Zeiler for a moment. He's an agitator. Also, until a couple of games ago, he was still officially a "prospect." If we hadn't lost Ellis in the whole waiver snafu, and/or if Clune hadn't gotten hurt in camp, Zeiler would still be a prospect, because he would still be in Manchester. The reason he might not clear waivers, Eat, is that he's cheap and useful within his limited range.

Now, lets address the logic of Zeiler getting ice time in lieu of [fill in the blank, Boyle, Tukonen; these are the names you, Eat, have mentioned over the last several months when making this argument]. Basically, the argument you're making is that it would be better to have a line of skilled players -- Purcell, Boyle, Moulson ; Purcell, Boyle, Lewis ; these are two combinations either you or I or both of us have mentioned in the past -- than a line of agitators and thugs.

First of all, I just want to clear up that my suggestion of any line with Boyle and Purcell on it (add/subtract Moulson if you want) is predicated on each of those players doing their f'ing homework related to defense. I'm frankly happy to have Boyle in Manchester until he learns what he needs to learn. But I would love to see those guys get it together and then play together. Maybe it happens. Maybe it doesn't. It's not exactly likely to happen, but it's possible. It's up to them mostly.

If they don't become defensively responsible, they simply don't get to play. The same rules apply to Zeiler and Ivanans, by the way. But they are freed up by being utterly unencumbered by any offensive expectations whatsoever. So it's easier for them.

Ultimately, the question is, is it even desirable to have guys like Ivanans and/or Zeiler around? Well, first of all, those are two different types. One is an agitator, energy type. The other is an enforcer. I think you have to address those roles separately.

Agitator: no question, in my opinion; it's important to have a guy like this on the team. Claude Lemieux, Sean Avery, etc.. Esa Tikanen (sp?). I would note, however, that each of those guys is far more skilled than Zeiler. Clune is, in theory, more Avery-esque. We'll see. But the prototype of the player who gets under the skin of the other team, throwing them off their game, while able to contribute on their own every once in a while... that works for me.

Enforcer: I could go either way. And if I was feeling generous to the idea of the enforcer, I'm not sure Ivanans would be what I was looking for. Is Westgarth any better? Who knows. But you can see why people want Boyle to get mean. Usually, I would err on the side of having a fourth line of "energy" players, rather than a pair of fists that sit quietly on the end of the bench, waiting. But ask me after someone runs Doughty head first into the boards.

Does Ivanans serve a purpose just sitting there on the bench? Is it a deterrent of any kind? I don't really know. It used to be. We'll find out when we get to the playoffs and Pronger knocks O'Sullivan out with an elbow. When Teubert grows up, we'll have our own Pronger and maybe the enforcer question will be moot. You would be right to point out that enforcers become redundant in the playoffs anyway. If you're going to be a real part of a successful team, you have to get yourself some skill, a la McSorley, who really did an amazing job of re-inventing himself, before he pissed it all away.

But just as a matter of strategy, I think it's important to acknowledge that fourth line players serve a different purpose than first line players, and it's not necessarily insane to keep guys like that around, in lieu of suiting up a fourth line of would-be top-six forwards who for whatever reason aren't ready for prime time yet.

Personally, I would feel more confident if LaBarbera was in net tomorrow. Lets not forget that he shut Columbus out last time he faced them. I know he has only played a few NHL games, but Quick has not impressed me at all.

For the record, I liked Chartrand and thought he was a good king.

Hey nykingfan, glad to hear that we have some fans out there. I grew up on long island and have liked the kings since I was 8. I understand how tough it is staying up so late to watch the kings!

The reason he might not clear waivers, Eat, is that he's cheap and useful within his limited range.

I'm still reading, but this is untrue as Zeils is under contract until '10-'11.
Even if it is "cheap" in the NHL, I'm willing to take that risk.

ziggy -
I would like to point out that I don't dislike any of these guys and hate criticizing them.
It's managements fault (old and new) that we have had purebred AHLers on our big club for the past 8 - 10 years. They won't spend on the real talent.
Before it was because they didn't want to be like Detroit and NY who out-spent everyone.
Now it's because they want to be like Detroit and build through the system created by the lockout. Yeah right.
I'm beginning to wonder if it's cheaper to have Ivan and Zeils than it is to bring up our youth and play them.

Quisp - An agitator, as you said, isn't really going to work unless he's able to do something of skill. Like Lappy said, a guy that shouldn't be in the league that runs around and hits everything is looked at as an ass. He gets no respect and doesn't distract the other team. If necessary, they'll send some middleweight like Lappy to fight him. And that's that. Speaking of Lappy, he's my kind of agitator.

I'm fine if Murray wants to challenge Boyle to get in some fights.
I'd rather see him on the 1st or 2nd line anyway, and if he can play there if he fights, I'm on board.
Ivanans is nothing like McSorley, who was uncontainable. If McSorley lost it, things were crazy. Ivan and Shelley, on the other hand, is pretty F'ing boring. I don't even know if Pronger would suffer fighting Ivan. I'd say Goat has as good a chance at disciplining Pronger as Ivan.
I said this earlier, but Brown is an agitator. We don't need any more. Simmonds and Calder aren't too bad at it either. My point all along is that based on Murray's system, we need another line that can be good in all areas. As it stands we have 3 strong lines and a wasted line.
They've been in enough games this year, where is the impact?

mmmm... once again, the impact is eating up ice time without being a liability (for that argument refer to the Lewis thread) while the top players get rested.

I do agree though that Murray is making a mistake not skating them at all during the 3rd period, especially during the end of a back-to-back. That was the first thing I thought Murray did that was incredibly retarded. The 4th line could have easily eaten up 2 minutes, and that's precious two minutes for the better players to catch their breath.

They have a use, but lately Murray hasn't been using them properly for whatever reason. I think the guys on the line aren't to blame.

There are probably only 5-6 bonafide heavyweights in the league. In all but those games Ivanans should have a seat. He has cement hands, is slow, takes stupid penalties (although he's better of late), and generally isn't good defensively.

I hope Quick does well but he wasn't good last game. For all the crap that Labs gets on these boards he's kept the team in a lot of games even if people won't admit it. His stats show it. He gets NO goal support though. He's losing games 2-0 and 2-1 or so usually. He's laid a couple of eggs but what goalie hasn't?

Ersberg seems to get more goal support and so did Quick. If Labs had 4-5 goals for a game he'd have a hell of a lot more wins than he has now. It just doesn't come.

As for Boyle I have high hopes but I have to agree with sending him down. He wasn't playing aggressive and with that size he has to. It's his biggest assett. I hope he gets the eye of the tiger like he did against Calgary in the game last year when he flattened Elisha Cuthberts new boyfriend at center ice.

DAN -
I missed the thanksgiving Calgary game because of TV coverage.
Did Boyle really flatten Phaneuf?
I totally disagree with you about him going back down, of course.
Boyle is an adapter, he slowly and steadily learns how to master what he's doing.
He needs to be here to adapt to the NHL, but I don't think we'll see him in the LA system much longer. He's RFA after this season.
If we're going to waste him they should just offer him in a deal for a goaltender.
I could be wrong, but I think we'll eventually see Boyle starting regularly in the NHL somewhere else.
Columbus could use a guy with his size and skill. Lot's of teams could.