Third-period lines

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
Get a true #1 goalie or were done... Its that simple

Is it just me or does lewis look like he belongs on a top line in the nhl so far

trevor lewis looked much better than the other night. he was in position to make both offensive and defensive contributions, and looks better than purcell. purcell continues to shy away from high-traffic areas, and if that doesn't change in a hurry, lewis will replace him when moller comes back.

wayne simmonds had a very strong game, perhaps his best so far.

You get four goals against the Redwings, and you gotta win the game. A good goalie holds the fort and wins this one. How long does it take for a groin to heal?

Okay Deano time to step up,this team is on the cusp.The time is here to make this franchise a respectable club and possibly make the playoffs.You can right now turn the direction of this hockey club from an underacheiver to a team with a destiny.This present club has in our system 90% of the needed ingredients to challenge competively with any other team in the NHL..Hold on to your core and at least give them a serious chance of making the playoffs this season,GET A QUALIFIED STOP GAP GOALIE FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.!!!!!!!!!The expierence for our core would be invaluable.

Quick did make 5 or 6 incredible saves, but he also let in a couple softies, I'd say if lastinkla gets the start he gives up 4 in about a period and a half and gets pulled anyway...

skaters continuing to battle with the best of 'em though

on the cusp of WHAT? This team is 3-11 on the road, and 27 of the last 41 games will be on the road... This team is gonna play out the string, get a #6 or #7 draft pick, and come back next season to contend for a playoff spot. Maybe NEXT year guys like Simmonds can play in Manchester, where they belong. You know, this need to rush kids into NHL slots to appease a small group of internet addicts is absurd. Development always used to mean guys spending a couple/few seasons in the AHL to learn the nuances of the sport. The Kings shouldn't be this desperate. There's no reason to constantly expose these guys to being overmatched like this. And, you can balk all you want over how these guys have performed at home, but a dozen points over the course of a season, playing a regular shift with two seasoned vets is not productive for anyone.

P.S. -7 in 2 games... you think Kyle Quincey hit planet Earth with a resounding thud this weekend?

If I can toss my two cents in It would be appreciated. First of all TM really put the screws to Quick, if Lafloppa is the #1 then Quick should have started against the lesser team (Buffalo) so Lafloppa could show his #1 stuff against the top team in the NHL. They just came off of wiping out the mighty Sharks 6-0 and TM puts the kid in. What is the fascination that TM has for Lafloppa??? Quick in his first game and against a power house and guaranteed he doesn't see shots like what he saw tonight down in the AHL. I felt he stood up pretty damn good and made saves that #1 wouldn't and couldn't and you certainly could see that he was as nervous as all get out, almost flubbed a pass behind or to the side of the net and Doughty wasn't all that collected tonight either. Simmonds, Lewis, O'Sully, Fro would be the top guys tonight and then Quick, Calder, O'Donnell, it even looked like Quincy was also somewhat astray tonight. BUT, they are really getting there and they were exciting again and busted their butts, at the end of this season I don't care where they wind up, they work hard and give their all and next season we'll have one helluva team. We'll get that goaltender DL won't let us down.

Even though Calder scored an easy goal, he still doesn't belong on the 2nd line. Seeing guys like Oscar Teddy Sully getting banished to the 4th line and Calder getting top 6 minutes game after game baffles me in the same way Labarbara was paraded out there game after game. I don't see why the team is wasting time trying to showcase potential free agents (calder labarbara) its doing more harm then good no one will take them in a trade. Just scratch them work with pieces that will be a part of this teams future.

@Marty: On the cusp of what? Even if the Kings could get a "qualified stop gap goalie", they'd do what? Finish 8th and get spanked in 4 games by the Sharks or Wings? And what "stop gap goalies" are available out there? Khabibulin? Fernandez? Legace? Vokoun? And who are you going to trade to get one of these guys? It's gonna take a draft pick and a good prospect at least. None of those goalies would get the Kings into the top 4 in the conference, which is where they'd need to be to get out of the first round in the playoffs, because they obviously can't win on the road.

All offseason I advocated getting Khabibulin or someone better then LaBarbara. The Kings didn't do it. We're 1/3 of the way into the season. I'd bet we're pretty much stuck with what we got for the rest of the year, or at least until the trade deadline.

Ersberg is the best goalie the Kings have right now. Wait for him to get back. The Kings have 6 road games and 7 home games in the next month. If the Kings can manage 18 out of 26 possible points by then, they'll still be in the playoff race when Ersberg gets back.

Stop pushing the panic button everyone. They're road games. The Kings don't know how to win those yet.

For everyone who keeps demanding that Dean get a new goalie, who do you want him to get? And more importantly, what would you be willing to part with to acquire that player?

Rollng three lines in the third cost us, we just ran out of gas. Ouick played well enough for us to win, but our defense was a little weak at times.Tough loss,but still proud to be a King fan.

I agree that a combination of Barbie and Quickie is not a solid enough goalie tandem for the Kings to make the playoffs this year. But are The Kings ready to make that step and trade away significant resources to acquire a #1 goalie and make the playoffs this season? A #1 goalie might get the Kings into the playoffs and get them to a first or maybe second round exit. Also, what #1 goalie is even out there available to be acquired via trade?

At this point, I am in favor of letting the team grow organically and keep developing Ersberg, Zatkoff, Bernier and Quick. With time, the goaltending problem will sort itself out by committing to patience and in-house development.

I liked how Lewis looked on the top line. He seemed much more effective than Purcell.
Not a great performance out of the defense. OD has looked off a for a couple of weeks now. Doughty and Quincey have struggled lately. While they're struggling, Greene is stepping up and playing great. He's making that trade look good all by himself.
I thought Quick played pretty well. He made some nice saves. The goals were all good goals by Detroit. That teams doesn't miss too many opportunities.
The Columbus game sets up to be an important game. We knew coming in this stretch was going to be tough. Starting with the Minn game..we've picked up 4 points in 5 games. Ending this stretch with 6 points in 6 games would be just about what we should have expected. The most important thing is we've competed well in all 5 games. Even the blowout in Buffalo. that's a good sign. Let's hope they keep it up.

Tough tough loss.
We were playing over our heads and the Wings didn't take us seriously. I listened to the Wings broadcast (as they had better HD) and their 'bob miller' was pretty sure they were going to lose if they continued to play the way they were playing. Finally the Wings put a couple Wing like shifts together and our D was no match. They crumbled. Tick tack toe goals. Can't blame Jon too much for those. Quincy should have gone for the man or at least his stick, standing in front of the goal crease with a man in behind you is a rookie mistake.

I thought I was the only one here impressed in Lewis' 1st game. 2nd game's even more impressive, he actually holds on to the puck. The guy skates like he belong in the NHL, I didn't see any tell-tale jitters that Purcell can't shake off.

I would love for the Kings to make the playoffs this year but giving up to much of the future for a goalie is not what this team needs, an example of this going wrong is Edmonton, they traded for a goalie and made a great run, signed him to a 3 year deal,they are now mediocre and can not get rid of Roloson.

Here is my wish list for the Kings in 2009.

1) Stay the coarse with the goalies we have. Labarbara indeed is not a NHL goalie, but the Kids in the minors are not ready yet. After seeing Quick play against Detroit you can see that, he was good but not great. Plus if the Kings defense plays well in front of Labarbara and lose wait till they get a goalie and relax a little.

2) Sign some of the upcoming free agents. Johnson is part of the future of this defense. But it is hard to say how much to pay him, but we need to lock him up. Frolov, what are we gonna do with him. He is never mentioned as part of the young core. I think he should get the same contract length as Brown and Kopitar. He has been on most nights the Kings best player, in his years in LA is has never played with a skilled player but yet is around a point a game player.

3) Trade away some of the vets that you do not need for next year. Calder, Armstrong, and Labarbara have to go, and you might as well get something for them (if there are any teams that want them). Keep building for the future, Draft picks and prospects you can never have enough.

I am not saying give up on this year but keep getting ready for the future. We have the building blocks to be a great team.

Roster for 2009

Forwards
Kopitar Richardson
Brown Simmonds
Frolov Lewis
O'Sullivan Purcell
Stoll Handzus
Moller Tavares??? Can only hope to maybe get him

Defense
Doughty Johnson
Quincy Greene
Hickey Harrold

Goalies
Ersberg
Bernier or Quick

Oh, Marc Nathan...

Simmonds in Manchester next year? Ha ha ha. Which prospects are being rushed (besides your reference to Simmonds)?

Doughty? Uh, no.

Quincey? He's the Kings' best defenseman this season so far.

Harrold? I think he's playing well, and improving steadily. Anyway, no one would say he's being rushed. He's a "veteran" prospect.

Moller? Leading the Kings in powerplay goals? One of the best two-way forwards so far this year.

Simmonds? Already discussed.

Lewis? Played great last night and not bad in first ever NHL game the night before. Has spent a full season in the AHL. Can't say he's being rushed.

Purcell? Also spent a full season in the AHL, where he led the team in scoring and was rookie of the year or some such thing.

Ersberg? The team's actual #1 goalie.

Quick? He's done his time in the AHL. Will he be a #1 in the NHL. Who knows. It's his, what, fifth game ever?

Did you get the memo about rebuilding?

As far as playing so many games on the road the rest of the season, it may be bad for the Kings, it may not. Nobody knows. Maybe they get homesick. Maybe they bond. Maybe they get star-struck. Maybe they play better when they're away from the pressures of the home crowd. Nobody knows. You think the Kings are going to tank. Could happen. I'm not saying it won't. But I do think the notion that long road trips spell doom is a bit of an unexamined cliche.

Last point: you say the Kings were overmatched by Detroit. I guess I didn't see the same game you saw. Check out the Detroit coverage of the game. In Michigan, they think the wings were lucky to get out of there with a win. I'm disappointed the Kings didn't win. But hey, you can't have everything.

And Jon Quick -- looking nervous in his first start of the year, against the Wings no less -- still is preferable to Jason LaBarbera, who looks nervous and insane for no reason.

Really my last point: yay, Trevor Lewis. C'mon Teddy. Move your feet. You can do it.

Rich, WJC U.S. TV coverage question:

It looks like NHL Network is going to broadcast U.S. and Canada games starting the day after Xmas and then show all of the medal round games. (1) is this accurate? (2) is anybody else showing games of other teams (e.g. Sweden, Russia)?

There's going to be a lot of good hockey on TV over the holidays.

Marc Nathan I agree with you about your overall assessment of the team- they're not on the cusp of going anywhere except where they are right now. I.E. no playoffs this year guys, sorry. We should be happy that the team has played together so well with the system TM has put together. But all this talk about the playoffs is a bit much... It will happen in good time, but not this year (barring a miracle).

Where I disagree with you Marc is your comments about Simmonds. This kid is playing better and better every game in my opinion. No he's not finding the back of the net very often but I think he will in time (2-3 years from now). In the meantime he's playing his butt off every shift, hitting anything that moves and getting involved. Something tells me DL and TM could care less what a bunch of people are posting on the internet when they decide who gets ice time. I also think the people that have been living and breathing hockey their whole lives (DL and TM) have a pretty good idea how and where a player's development should be taking place. It's a pretty bold (and somewhat arrogant) statement to even think they would make a decision based on what gets written here or some other message board.

As far as Quincey is concerned, so what if he's had a few bad games? This guy has been a god-send for the team this year. Let's not forget that the King's were projected to have THE WORST defense coming into this season. Thank god this guy managed to fall into our laps! Besides Quincey wasn't the only player struggling against the Wings last night. The King's were LUCKY to be leading during the 3rd period. They really got tested and had a tough time against the Wings, the fact that they were able to hold on and make it a close game speaks volumes about their progress as a team.

Ethman:

Thank you for reminded me about the message board comment. I completely and utterly agree with you. I would go so far as to say I'm quite sure that no-one associated with the Kings reads the comments on any message board. The exception to this would be that I'm sure every once in a while a rookie or prospect can't resist temptation and peeks at the comments (sort of like people googling themselves) and then is quickly educated by veterans not to do this. It's simply bad for your brain to let all that back-seat driving into your world. Actors have the same kinds of "rules" about reading reviews (and reviews are at least vetted for some kind of low-level of quality; unlike message boards, which have no standards at all). Politicians don't read political blog comments sections (although there was a brilliant West Wing episode in which one of the white house staff got into a flame war with a commenter...). It's utterly insane and narcissistic to think that anyone is reading these comments besides the people who comment and a percentage of readers (i.e. Kings fans) who opt out of commenting themselves.

It always surprises me when commenters address their comments to Dean Lombardi or Terry Murray with an apparent belief that they might actually be listening. Now, on that note, I have to go finish my letter to Santa.

Quisp- historically, the Kings have not been very good on the road. Their overall record is 509-844-213-33 (W-L-OT-OTL). Compare that to 766-609-211-24 at home. It is not a stretch to expect that a team that is currently dead last in the league on the road team at 3-11 will continue to struggle on the road. I don't know how long you've been following the kings, but after 20 years of watching them, what I remember of long road trips for the Kings over the years is that they have usually spelled trouble and have rarely been successful. I think this is evidenced in their overall road record.

I share Marc's outlook on what lies ahead. I think a top 5-7 pick is in the cards as well, which should be a solid offensive pickup, perhaps someone like evander kane, magnus svensson-paajarvi, or ryan ellis (if we're still going for D) (all of whom are in the WJC so keep an eye for them). got to cut short but i'll close with this; the team has a good future and i'll be watching despite what i expect to see for the latter part of the year.

-j

I hear what you're saying. I'm not really advocating for anything other than (1) a little less strident certainty about how the Kings will perform the rest of the season (e.g. "with 102 out of the remaining 50 games on the road, the Kings season is now officially over, sorry fellas, get used it to, hate to break it to you" etc.) and (2) an acknowledgment that conditions on the road are markedly different today than they have been historically, so at least some revision of the old cliche of doom is in order.

Yes, the Kings franchise road record suggests that they aren't going to finish well. But. But. But. Factor in:

-- the schedule is much friendlier to West Coast teams than it used to be. Phoenix, Dallas, Anaheim, Vancouver, San Jose, Colorado ... all non-grueling trips. I assume, though I haven't counted them up, several of those away games (SJS, ANA, PHX) are thinly-disguised home games.

-- the arenas. In the old days, rinks were highly idiosyncratic and were tailored to the home team's style. Today, rinks are to a high degree cookie-cutters of each other. The home ice "advantage" has been largely rendered moot.

-- this particular Kings team is young. The youngest in the league? I forget. Close to it anyway. Young bodies do better with all that travel. We're not old and creaky.

-- franchise stats reflect general trends, of course, and this can be helpful, but also misleading. Many of those Kings teams were simply not very good. And hey, in the 60s and 70s, people drank whiskey in the locker room between periods.

However, arguing against myself, there is no question that if the Kings are going to be successful this season, they will have to learn how to win on the road.

@Quisp: You're correct about the NHL Network's coverage of the WJC in the United States. They're going to show all the USA games, a few Team Canada games, and the medal rounds. And as far as I've heard, no other TV coverage will be available in the United States. I'm sure there will be a lot more coverage in Canada. They've even been showing warmup games for the Canadians up there.

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/news/news-singleview/article/u20-worlds-on-nhl-network.html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=fec49a44f3

lewis seems to play both sides of the puck well. purcell consistently couldn't figure out who he should be covering in the defensive zone and it lead to scoring chances (sometimes goals).

i don't see the need to trade for a goalie. is it horrible to finish at the bottom of the conference and get a quality draft pick? the way i see it, the kings either need to finish 8th and get some playoff experience (even if they get swept) or finish last and get that quality draft pick. finishing 9th-13th would not help the future of the franchise.

I've thought about it, and this is what I want for Xmas:

(1) Purcell and Boyle get it together.

(2)

POS/Kopitar/Lewis
Frolov/Handzus/Simmonds
Calder/Stoll/Brown
Purcell/Boyle/Moller

(3) Waive JLB.

(4) Bring up Bernier. Let Bernier and Quick get their games in. Ten or fifteen games each. 25 for Ersberg, unless he's outplayed.

[due to the holiday roster freeze and the WJC, I don't mind if presents arrive as late as the All Star Break.]

Well, I just finished watching the game and it's always disappointing to lose games when you're up in the 3rd.
The team played pretty well, though I agree with (I think duckhunter) the comment that we're showing them too much respect.
We didn't physically punish Detroit and I have no idea why.
Those blaming Quincey for that Hudler goal have got to stop embarrassing themselves. Doughty and Brown were lost on that play and Brown in particular screwed the pooch by leaving his point position in the first place. From there it was a scramble and Quincey was left trying to cover at least 2 players/positions on his own.
Quick didn't look like he should be in the NHL, but he's a rookie, in Detroit, 2nd night in a row, and his team is being handcuffed by at least 2 players who shouldn't have dressed for this game.
I really hope Murray get's a damn clue about the waste of time it is to have Ivan and Zeiler skating every night.
We're losing games in the 3rd because we can't get a rest and our lines are being over-taxed.
I don't get it - Isn't the goal to put your strongest possible team on the ice?
How is it our strongest possible team when we have a entire line that can't skate?
I love the way the team plays under Murray but it is so frustrating to see this night after night.
If the Lambs haters thing 17 games of Lambs is frustrating, imagine how aggravating it is to have the other teams 4th lines scoring against our top lines while our 4th skates every game for about 6 minutes, and never in the 3rd?
Why is Purcell centering the 4th line?
Purcell has never been touted for his commitment to defense.
On the contrary, he's actually criticized for it.

I hate losing, but maybe if we have no chance of making the playoffs we'll finally be rid of the waste of space that is Murray's 4th line.
Again, I like this coach a lot, but damn if his brain isn't like a brick wall.
He's got no problem throwing around criticism, I wish some of the journalists who have a column in a real paper would start to point out that Murray is costing the team games at this point.

Our goaltending situation is bad. We need a guy who can start every night until Ersberg is fit enough to play a heavy load, or one of the kids stakes his claim.
I agree with Murray sticking with Lambs, but I don't agree with Lombardi for allowing it to continue.
Get a proven guy in here to ride out the storm and take the abuse from the fans.
Lambs can't handle it, and none of these kids is ready to be a No. 1.
It's time for a move that is league-small, but team-huge.
Gerber, Roloson, Sean Burke, Felix Potvin, Grant Fuhr, whatever.
Hell, make Cloutier return. We're paying him this year and next anyway.
What's going on now isn't good for anyone.

Marc Nathan - Over? Nothing's over until we say it's over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Seriously. What planet are you blogging from?
If we aren't playoff bound what's wrong with playing your youth?
Sure, maybe Bernier should be guarded from over-exposure, but there's absolutely no reason why Simmonds, Moller, or anyone shouldn't be playing, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE GOING TO END UP DRAFTING 7 OR 8.
If anything, I would think you'd agree that there's no reason to be dressing Raitis and John Zeiler every night.

Quisp - I hope to God you get your Christmas wish and that Murray will pull his head out of his rectum and see the bloody light already.
I'm SO glad we played a decent game against Detroit and should have won, but I'm really starting to believe Murray needs to take some advice on this. He is not getting the most out of his lineup and I would like ONE person on here to explain to me this:

If the 4th line is the weakest line, and the defense pairing of Harrold/Gauthier is the weakest defense pairing, WHY DO I CONSTANTLY SEE THE 4TH LINE ON WITH THE WEAKEST DEFENSE PAIRING GAME AFTER GAME?

THE 4TH LINE IS KILLING US AND NEEDS TO GO.
WE NEED A 4TH LINE THAT CAN BE EFFECTIVE AND SPELL THE OTHER 3 LINES.
OUR TOP LINES ARE GOING NEGATIVE/MINUS AND SIMMONDS ISN'T ON THE SCORESHEET ENOUGH.
DO SOME EXPERIMENTING UP FRONT WITH YOUR TOP 3 LINES AND GIVE US A GOOD 4TH LINE
Simmonds, Calder, Stoll, Lewis, Purcell, Boyle, Moller - 7 players to get one line out of and allow the top 3 lines to do their things.

BLOODY HELL.

It has been said before, but I feel the need to bring it up again. Saying that Quick isn't ready for the NHL seems to be a bit premature. He was brought in against a Buffalo team while we were getting blown out (even if we controlled the play for most of the game) and then had his first NHL start this season against a Detroit team that just dominated the Sharks - and don't forget, they were at the Joe. I'd be intimidated. Quick only let in three goals during the first two periods. Once the third period came and the Kings became tired, lethargic, and overmatched, the Wings got two more goals. If anything, I'd say Quick did pretty well considering all of that.

I also think that Purcell needs to step it up big time. I think that sending him back to Manchester would be extremely detrimental to his confidence and that isn't something he needs. At the same time, he needs to be playing second- or third-line minutes, enough with this six minutes a game nonsense. I personally think he should be with Handzus and Frolov, I think that would make one hell of a line.

My lines would be:
O'Sullivan - Kopitar - Lewis
Calder - Stoll - Brown
Frolov - Handzus - Purcell

The fourth line is a big problem for me. I think Zeiler and Ivanans both can bring something to this team. I just don't think they should do it together. I kind of find them interchangable. If we are looking for a scoring third line, I'd go with some combination of Armstrong - Moller - Richardson. If we're looking to pester the other team, Armstrong - Moller - Zeiler. If we need Ivanans out there, swap him in.

As far as goalies go, I think the worst thing we could do is trade some of our talent for a goalie for the rest of the season. Ersberg is our #1 goalie, even if he is out for another 10 games. I just hope this isn't a chronic injury, otherwise we're in trouble. I don't like seeing LaBarbera in net as much as the next guy, but he has put up some solid games. Maybe he'll find himself again.

Maybe we can throw 4 skaters and 2 goalies out there.

The 4TH line disappearing act that Murray has used in the last 2 games has me a bit puzzled. He has preached the need for having 4 line all season, to keep the top guys rested , then he goes completely against this. I can see him doing this during the last 8-10 min of a game , but the whole 3rd of both games contradicts everything he says,especially during a back-to-back road game.

marksonfire, re "throw 4 skaters and two goalies out there":

I know you're joking. But I've often wondered about the opposite variation: pulling your goalie for the entire game. I know it's not really a good idea, obviously. But bear with me for a second.

If you had a great power-play team, a puck possession team...

...and you could limit the other teams shots in the game to around 8...

...you would essentially be on the power play all game. You could win every game 10-8.

Obviously, this is stupid and non feasible and is a non-serious suggestion.

But I guess my real question buried in all of that is, how many goals/shots would a solid defensive team with six skaters allow with no goalie? 10? 12? And how many goals would you score if you had an extra skater all game? 6? 8?

I mean, if you really wanted the #1 pick overall, and you wanted to pad your offensive stats, imagine a team that scores 700 goals in a season.

I'm more interested in wether there's a rule that says you can't skate 2 goalies.
Could we be witnessing a new direction in NHL hockey?
Or would the NHL create the "Labarbara Rule" to go along with the "Avery Rule?"

ETR-

"I agree with Murray sticking with Lambs, but I don't agree with Lombardi for allowing it to continue."

Very well said, sir. I can't say that I have any hope for the Kings this year while Barbie is in net, but this team just is not ready for a deep push into the playoffs this year, and to speak the parlance of our time: "it is what it is." DL wasn't planning on needing a championship caliber goalie at this time, but you can't fault Terry Murray for trying to turn Shards into Chardonnay!

I'm pretty sure you can't have more than one goalie out there, it was certainly a joke.

But Quisp, pulling the goalie would not work. The opposing team would ice the puck every chance they got and I'm guessing a good number of them could potentially go in.

Obviously it would never happen, but I see what you were getting at.

By the way, I finally decided to register. There were too many anonymous "mark"s out there, so now my comments can be set apart from their comments.

Sadly we are stuck with Ivan and Zeiler until either Army gets healthy or until after the roster freeze and Moller comes back. Right now, DL can't call up anybody up, and Murray doesn't have any other healthy roster players. Harrold at RW is the only other option along with dressing Preissing.

I agree that Zeiler and Ivan are good, but not on the same roster, let alone the same line. One or the other will do. But again, we are stuck for now. I would strongly disagree with splitting them up onto other lines. Murray just needs to roll the 4th line for two shifts in the third period, just not in the last 10 minutes.

Also, I think people need to stop blaming Murray for the roster he is given. I'm sure he can ask DL to call someone up, but it doesn't mean DL will listen. Roster moves are management. Coaching staff can only dress and bench the players on the roster management gives them to work with.

If you want Boyle up, harp at Lombardi, not Murray. Better yet, harp at Boyle to play better.

JDM - I don't think that's how the player shuffle works.
I could be wrong, but I think Lombardi will give Murray whomever he asks for, for the most part.
I'd imagine there are guys Murray doesn't know, but for the most part I'm assuming that he's got the entire spectrum to choose from.

I can't believe that after everything I've said, and the results of what Murray is doing with Ivan and Zeils, you can say "harp on Boyle to play better."
What exactly did this kid do wrong?
It's like a kick in the teeth, really.
Don't you understand this is as frustrating to me as Labarbara is to you?
Actually, it's worse.
At least Labs plays horribly against Colorado to open Murray's eyes to the situation - like he said, it's like "two different players."

Now that I think about this, I'm wondering "what the hell?"

Are you saying we can't call players up from our affiliate?

If that is true, why are we going through this roster freeze with only Preissing available in case of injury?
If that's the case somebody f@@ked up big time.

You can still do emergency call-ups in the event of injury.

EAT THE RICH:

Marc Nathan - Over? Nothing's over until we say it's over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

FYI, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

Quisp is right, you can only call up in the event of injury, but now regular call-ups or demotions or anything.

And all I mean by harp on Boyle is to say that clearly he wasn't doing what was asked of him. Don't cite playing with Ivan and Zeiler as an excuse. Lewis looked good playing with them, obviously not as good as on the first line, but he still made a case for himself. He went to the tough areas and fought for loose pucks. Boyle didn't really do that. It's not just Boyle playing more physical, but its the fight. Its reading the defensive end of play, its going to those tough areas and fighting for loose pucks like your life depended on it. In his time here this season Boyle kind of loafed around and waited for things to happen. That's all I mean. Boyle had one, maybe two decent games where he did this, otherwise he was invisible out there, and regardless of your linemates being invisible is unacceptable. To use an extreme example, Rick Nash and Marion Gaborik manage year after year to look awesome playing with guys FAR below their talent level.

As for Murray having a say in who gets called up/sent down, I'm sure he does have a say. However neither of us truly know how that process goes down, and all we know for sure is that Lombardi is the one who has final say on the whether a player plays in the AHL or the NHL. I'm sure he listens to Murray, but Murray could easily say "Hey, Boyle isn't doing well enough" and Lombardi could have responded "No, you aren't coaching him right, he stays." Or vice versa. Maybe Murray wanted more time to work with Boyle but Lombardi wanted Richardson to get more time and for a spot for Purcell to be available. Who knows? Not I. Not you. So really this point of discussion as to who dictates this is moot, because again, all we know is that Lombardi is the one who ultimately swings the gavel on who is on what roster.

Murray has been able to get a lot more drive out of Frolov than we've seen in previous years. He is atleast partially responsible for Handzus' resurgence, and is the one who gets players to buy into the system and as he puts it "dig in." Boyle never bought into the system. I could see it.

I want as much for Boyle as you do. Whether he becomes a big hitter or a dominant physical force is not really indicative of the bigger picture for him. Like I said its about reading the play and battling every second of every shift. He didn't do that, and until he does, he doesn't deserve a spot on this team. Ivan has no talent, but you can tell he does what is asked. Same with Zeiler. Purcell has done it on and off, but we all can see that he has shied away from the tough areas, hence his demotion.

Wow, I usually think Marc Nathan is a blowhard "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEE" type, but he's actually spot-on in this case.

Look, if anything, this team has benefited to this point from overachieving and a generous home schedule.

They still aren't that good, and next year might contend.

Can't you finally see where this is all going? Stop being so goddamn impatient.

I love this from Quisp:

"...several of those away games (SJS, ANA, PHX) are thinly-disguised home games."

So Phoenix and San Jose so close they are actually
Los Angeles! 600 miles this way, 700 miles that way, what does it really matter? Lol.

I know what he mean't--That those are light travel days (short flights). Bu7t they are still travel days.

It just struck me as funny.

Anyway, I have several hopes on my mind right now...

God, I hope Ersberg comes back soon.

And...

I hope Wayne Simmonds shoots a lot of pucks
and eats a lot of prime ribs over the next
couple years. With more meat on his bones and
much better-developed finishing skills, this kid
will be a force in the league.

Want to see a huge,
I mean HUGE effort,
on Tuesday
against Columbus.

--Sergei Prozacutov

Eat The Rich - FYI, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

FYI, its from the movie Animal House. John Belushi. No? Nothing? Okay.

Anyway, I'm wondering if you guys think Ivanans or Zeiler will be on the roster next year...?

The main knock on Purcell is "a one way player". Doesn't know how to backcheck or pick up his man. In th AHL all-star game last year he had the hat trick and floated all night and this was as a rookie and didn't get a sniff at MVP. I watched the game and when I saw him doing the old float act all I could say was uh-oh not good Teddy.

I'm pretty sure Eat was kidding about the Germans.

I have a question for the people. Clearly, the LaBarbera "showcase" didn't really go as planned. But the Calder showcase is picking up steam. He's been playing quite well, I think. And he is a UFA this summer, with pretty much zero chance at getting re-signed here, at least not at his current salary (if the Kings win the cup and Calder scores the series-clinching goal in triple OT against the Canadiens in Montreal, I'll revisit).

So, does DL trade him at the deadline? I think yes. Or am I crazy? What does DL think next year's depth chart looks like?

Calder is really a third/fourth line guy and could be Draper-ish in his role. But who else is in the pipeline for third-fourth line duty?

The next batch of forward prospects due to ripen are Cliche (if he is ever not injured), Clune, Loktionov, Wudrick and Azevedo, adding to the "veteran" prospects Moulson, Purcell, Boyle and Lewis. Also, I just noticed that Bryan Campbell, DL's 3rd round pick 2 years ago, has 45 points in 35 games so far in junior this year, seven points behind Tavares. So he's doing better than his fairly great numbers of last year. So you have to throw him into the mix (though probably not for next year, right?).

I want Clune to make it. Loktionov is certainly a possibility. Wudrick, you would think he won't be ready until he does a year or so in the AHL, but you never know with those 6'4" 220 pounders. Azevedo is certainly a long shot. But you have to think that at least one of Moulson, Purcell and Boyle get their acts together. I think Lewis makes it.

Centers: Kopitar, Stoll, Handzus, Moller, Lewis, Boyle, Purcell, Loktionov (Moller, Lewis and Purcell can play wing).
Left wings: POS, Frolov, Moulson, Clune, Wudrick.
Right wings: Brown, Simmonds, Richardson, Cliche (Moller, Lewis, Purcell).

Who am I leaving off? Zeiler, Armstrong, Calder, Ivanans.

Conservatively, lets say Wudrick isn't ready next year. And lets say only one of Boyle/Purcell/Moulson pan out (I think all three might, but I'm being conservative).

That means: Kopitar, Stoll, Handzus, Moller, Lewis, Boyle/Purcell/Moulson (composite), Clune/Zeiler (composite), Brown, Simmonds, POS, Frolov. That's eleven names. Three slots left. Who's duking it out?

Richardson, Loktionov, Azevedo, Wudrick, the other two of Boyle/Purcell/Moulson, Cameron (too young), Armstrong (does he re-sign this summer or move on?), Cliche.

Of course, a lot can and will happen between now and next fall. But I think if you're DL, you're thinking, maybe one but not both of Loktionov and Azevedo crack the line-up next year, maybe one of Wudrick or Cliche makes it. If two or three of Boyle/Purcell/Moulson are looking more promising in a few months, I think there's no room for Calder or Armstrong next year. If none of those guys is working out, then maybe DL hangs onto one of Calder or Armstrong; I'm thinking in that case he keeps the cheap one, Armstrong, and deals Calder by March.

Sorry for the long, rambling post, but, WTF, it's the holidays.

Quisp,

I like that there seems to be a lot of promise in the ranks.
But there are only so many spots on a team.
I think Calder deserves consideration and think he's well placed on a 3rd or 4th line checking/grind line.
Until someone unseats him in delivers more, I think he's an asset.
I don't like that our Captain and leading goal scorer is skating on the 3rd, however.
I'd like to see Brown replace Simmonds and see what would happen for a few games.
I'm sure it won't happen but I like to dream.
Imagine if after all this time, I got that Calder/Stoll/Simmonds grind line in time for the Holidays.
I think Purcell should go back on the top line and Lewis should play 4th center if the lines are going to stay the same, relatively.
Columbus is playing well right now.
I wonder which Kings team will show up?

I guess not many people remember Animal House.

I don't think I should bring up Brian Boyle's name anymore. It's just too frustrating.

Not sure what is more pathetic, that Marc thinks that giving talented young players NHL ice time is done to appease internet addicts or that so many people don't get the Animal House reference....

"Mom, Dad, this is [name here]. The boy who molested me last month. We have to get married."

This is what would like for X-mass, Molson/Boyle/Armstrong skate 4th line. Send JZ down, as much as I like him, we don't need him. Even though Army is not a heavy weight he will stick up for the guys. Not to mention we just might get a little anger out of Boyle without Rats on the ice. The good thing about this line is it can skate all three periods and is a scoring threat.

KingzzFan
That line's a scoring threat...where in Manchester?
I love Army, but which of those guys have played well this season when they had the chance to make you think they'd be a good line?
They skate hard all 3 periods? That would be a first for Boyle this season. Sorry guys for picking on Boyle, but facts are facts.
Molson had his chance on the top line earlier this season. Go back and read the "complimentary" things everyone had to say about his performance.
Lets face it...We haven't had much success from our 4th line, so TM has done the smart thing with them...limited ice time! That's what a non productive line gets. There's no reason to think the guys you mentioned would do anything more, since they had the chance earlier and didn't.

I don't think Zeiler would clear waivers, actually. As long as you're bringing up Moulson and Boyle, you may as well put Purcell on their line, since the three of them have demonstrated actual chemistry in the past. (Moulson is injured, however; the last I read, he was out "several weeks" with a knee or an ankle; Azevedo is out with an ankle or a knee, whichever one Moulson didn't hurt.)

In all reality the Kings need a sniper, one shutdown defensemen. While I think Kopitar, Brown, Sully, Frolov are good group of scorers I don't think anyone of them except O'Sullivan can break 40 goals. Now before everyone goes off hear me out for a second this is purely fantasy speculation but here goes. Here are some stats to mull over:

GPG: 2.61 Rank: 21st
GAG: 2.85 Rank: 15th
PP%: 18.5 Rank: 14th
PK%: 82.9 Rank: 9th
SPG: 29.5 Rank: 16th
SAG: 26.2 Rank: 1st

The stats that stand out the most are the Shots Against Per Game (SAG) #1 in the NHL and the PK% ranking number 9. While everyone can see the defense is a huge improvement over last year our offense is very anemic. The difference is a proven sniper that scores on a consistent basis. Now if you project what each player can score in my mind it breaks down like this. I have also added where I think they peak for now.

35-40:

30-35:
Brown
Kopitar
Frolov
25-30:
O'Sullivan
20-25:
????
15-20:
????
10-15:
Stoll
Handzus
Moller
10-Under:
Boyle
Lewis
Purcell
Calder
Simmonds
Zeiler
Ivanans
Richardson (If he ever plays)

We have a lot of 15 and under goal scorer with only a couple of 30+ scorers. An elite scorer would help out tremendously considering many of our prospects are uproven and we don't know where they will project and it takes few seasons to get some idea. I would like to see where others think we stand in terms of projects for certain players.

new yawka -

Purcell - Boyle - Lewis.
Is there a problem with this as a 4th line?
Is there any chance of a line with Ivan and Zeiler scoring a goal?
I remember Boyle knocking Rob Neidermeier (a big guy) and Kent Huskins (a big guy) on their asses like they were ragdolls.
I remember Brian Boyle nearly going coast to coast and getting by Scott Neidermeier to nearly score in a 0-0 game in the 3rd period.
If you don't want someone with the ability to do this during a hockey game on the ice for your team, I'd say there's something wrong with you.
You're parroting the words of a coach who is still insistent that Jason Labarbara is our number one goalie.
You're accepting 3/4 of your team as "good enough."
I have no clue why.
Would you be afraid to put the above 4th line on the ice with 10 minutes left in the game against Detroit?
If so, I still don't understand because even with our top 3 lines rolling we still gave up the lead.

There is absolutely no chance that anyone would claim John Zeiler if he were sent to Manchester. None.

ETR

You mentioned a couple of good things Boyle did. All well and good...and the rest of the time he was on the ice? Exactly...NOTHING that's why he's back in Manchester. If he did what you mentioned all the time the way he should have, he would still be playing up with the Kings. Don't blame his linemates. He was responsible for his own play. For the most part, his play was completely lackluster. I hope he went down there with the right attitude and does what's expected of him by the organization...not the fans.

Purcell? He's played on the top line since his call up. Have you seen anything about his game that excites you? Maybe I'm missing it, but he doesn't seem to be doing much while he's out there. he's been brutal defensively and I haven't seen much creativity while playing with Kopi and Sully.
I can't say anything negative about Lewis. So far I like what i've seen from him with Kopi and Sully.
What makes you think putting Boyle and Purcell together would be a good thing? They play no defense whatsoever. Teams would be scoring at will against us with them on the ice.

We weren't going to beat Detroit because Detroit decided to wake up and play like they wanted to win the last 10 minutes. They are a better team than us..If you don't see that, you're not dealing in reality. If you think putting guys like Purcell and Boyle out there those last 10 minutes was going to change the outcome, that's insane.

Right now this team has 3 good lines rolling. We don't have a great 4th line and I don't see anyone who's been brought up that would change that. At least the 3 lines we have now is a lot better than what we had last year. We're still a much improved team over last year...just not enough to call ourselves an elite team.

I have no clue what other GM's think of Zeiler...None of us do.

nykingfan -

Come on. You're smarter than that.

You mentioned a couple of good things Boyle did.

The highlight of Zeils season is injuring Foote.

All well and good...and the rest of the time he was on the ice? Exactly...NOTHING that's why he's back in Manchester.

Really? Do I have to fly to New York and watch all his minutes and point out all the things he does right? I guess you can't see it yourself. Maybe I gave you too much credit because you played. You seem to be totally blind and just mimic whatever Murray says. Next, you'll be posting why you believe Lambs is a No. 1 goaltender

Well, he was brought up because we have a hard time scoring and he scored. Has Ivan or Zeils? If he can't play defense, why is he on a 4th line (when they get on the ice) that he's centering and has to play defensively? It doesn't make much sense, does it?
Besides, he made one mistake and wasn't "great" for a game, what do you expect from young players just in the league? I didn't think you'd need this stuff pointed out.

Teams would be scoring at will against us with them on the ice.

Kind of like Edmonton, Calgary, Detroit (twice), San Jose, Toronto, Phoenix, and Colorado have done in the 3rd period against our top 3 lines? Great argument.

I would copy the last two paragraphs and that statement about GM's thinking about Zeiler but they're too stupid to respond to.
I can guarantee you that not one other GM in the league thinks about John Zeiler.
If you need evidence of this, consider that Terry Murray was scouting for Philly last year and didn't even know who Patrick O'Sullivan is. Why would any other GM think about a guy that wouldn't be playing if he were on the Islanders? Zeils has a ton of heart, but he doesn't even make an impact in the AHL, let alone the NHL.

Zeiler = RUDY

to clarify, I was talking about the goaltending.

Smart? Thank you
Your arguments are still lame..All of them.
What did you see about his games other than the plays you've mentioned? Man, what games are you watching? Forget about drinking the TM kool-aid..it was painfully obvious that his play wasn't good every night. He put a couple of really nice games together. He showed the promise that he has..I'm not denying the guy has a world of ability and has the chance to be a star in this league, but one thing is certain..that time isn't right now. Stop confusing promise with production. Some guys take longer before they're ready to play in this league. apparently, he's one of those guys. In the NHL you have to bring it every night, because your opponent does.
You keep bringing up Zeiler's offensive production. He has none...that's obvious to even the uneducated hockey fan. There's more to this game than scoring. Guys like Zeiler and Ivanans are supposed to go out there..hit some people and create energy. Change momentum if that's what's needed. The majority of teams in this league don't have high scoring 4th line guys. Please don't bring up Detroit. We're not Detroit yet. Most of the teams use guys who can bring energy. If a guy like Boyle would have used his size and body, he could have created some scoring chances. For the most part, he didn't. Nothing you can show me will change my mind. The only thing you would see is that the majority of his shifts were uninspiring.

Have we improved our goals against this year? Have we limited teams chances against us? Don't bring up a few games when the majority of games we kept the opposition to few shots and few goals. That's the most senseless thing I've read. Why the hell would you bring up 8 out of 33 games to prove a point? It works the opposite.

You don't agree with my thoughts about what other GM' think of Zeiler? Whatever...show me what the hell you know about what other GM's see and think? That's the same as listening to what you have to say about Boyle as opposed to a professional NHL coach with umpteen years of experience as a coach and scout. Don't worry about his scouting with Philly. How do you know what his scouting duties were? Teams have different scouts for different areas. Did he scout any Kings games last year. I don't know...maybe you do.

PS..I get my horns up a little sometimes. LOL Nothing personal man

Guys like Zeiler and Ivanans are supposed to go out there..hit some people and create energy. Change momentum if that's what's needed.

Name one game this season in which the 4th line changed the game.
I don't even hate these guys individually, but you seem to think they are having an effect in the game.
Care to explain how Murray is getting it right with Labs?
I'd think that in this day and age, with the state of our country, economy, auto industry, insurance industry, and the bloody NHL; that you'd have a bit more understanding that the Old Boys Network doesn't work anymore.
Anyway, if the goal is to alienate the fans and make supporting the team as painful a process as possible, the Kings are getting straight A's.
I still can't get over the fact that you actually played and you think Zeiler couldn't clear waivers.
Nik Khabibulin and Kyle Mclaren slip on by, but not Zeiler.
The worst part is that I really respect his guys heart and gumption, but people like you and Terry Murray continue to think he works in today's NHL.
Don't sign Shanahan, keep Zeiler.
Kyle Wellwood? No. John Zeiler.
Play your young guys while you expect to struggle through the season? Nope. Play John Zeiler.
Feel free to take a shot at trying to explain what use Ivanans serves playing in Detroit game.
Or how it makes sense to start Quick in Detroit, not Buffalo.

You and Murray would be quite at home in the Triassic Period. The NHL has passed you by.

I thought of a new nickname for Murray - "Depends."

I really can't say that Zeiler has been anything to write home about this year. But one thing I can say...and I'm not going to go look at the stats; I trust my eyes and what I see...Zeiler hasn't cost us defensively..Boyle and Purcell have. That's the difference between them. Zeiler has the experience and experience counts for a lot. Not NHL experience, but pro experience. Guys like Purcell and Boyle don't have that expereience and that's what will cost you games. The NHL is not the place to learn your craft.
I don't understand the hard on for getting as many young players in the lineup. I like to see the young players too, but not if they're not ready to play in this league yet.
You talk about Zeiler being waived...I don't know. nor do you. Why do you insist on believeing you have some type of inside knowledge into every GM's thinking? Who would have thought a guy like Ellis, who I liked, wouldn't clear thru waivers. You never know what teams are looking for. There are 30 teams in the league and 30 teams all have different needs. One man's garbage is another man's gold. You also need to take a look at salaries when determining who gets picked up and who doesn't. Teams that are up against the cap may be able to afford guys like Zeiler and not Khabibulen.

When you're talking about guys like Shanahan and Wellwood, what are you looking for their roles to be? Do they fit into a 4th line mode that's not going to get the same ice time as the top 3? I don't know. I do know that the way this team is setup, the 4th line will not be playing all that much. I don't care whether its Zeiler, Shanahan, or Boyle.

"I'd think that in this day and age, with the state of our country, economy, auto industry, insurance industry, and the bloody NHL; that you'd have a bit more understanding that the Old Boys Network doesn't work anymore."

I have no idea what that means, but if you wish to explain it to me, I'd be happy to look at it again. I don't get how the auto industry has anything to do with Zeiler and Ivanans..or TM for that matter.

"Anyway, if the goal is to alienate the fans and make supporting the team as painful a process as possible, the Kings are getting straight A's"

I'm going to assume you were here last year for the disaster. It's impossible not to think that this team is playing so much better than last years team..or the previous years. Rebuilding is a painful process. Lets wait until the dust settles and see where we're at by the end of the season. Sorry to tell you, I don't see any young guys being able to come up and lift this team on their back to the playoffs.

" Care to explain how Murray is getting it right with Labs?"
No. I was a supporter of Barbs as a temporary gate keeper until Bernier's ready, but his recent play gives me no reason to think he should be playing. Since Quick is back in goal tonight, I guess me and the dinosour must be thinking a like.

"I thought of a new nickname for Murray - "Depends."
That sounds more like an Anthony post.
I don't know man...I see this team being much improved from last season, I guess you don't. People can see things differently.
I just think when you're arguing about the value of 4th line players, it seems silly and ridiculous. They get 6 minutes of ice time a night. As long as they don't hurt you, what more could you be looking for?
To go after the coach because of how he uses the 4th line, instead of praising him on how he's developed 3 strong lines, is misguided. If he feels more comfortable with Zeiler out there instead of Boyle, so be it. It's not like he's replacing Kopitar with Zeiler.

nykingfan - for evidence of Zeiler not getting it right in a defensive role revisit the Colorado game. Middle of the slot, Zeiler beat on the backcheck, Goal.
Armstrong hurt because he's playing 3rd defenseman for a weak defensive line.
The crappy 4th cost us a goal and Armstrong (who I have doubts we'll see play again).
My comparison to the economy and corporations and Old Boys Networks:
You keep telling me you trust a coach who's been doing it for his entire life over an unknown blog commenter like myself. Well, consider the state of our nation and what goes on at every level of our culture - there are the incompetent and old-fashioned managers who cling to outdated systems. We've got CEO's of billion dollar corporations running our economy into the ground. We have a "reverential" attitude towards people in positions of power and reward incompetence with higher salaries. It's happening in government, business, education, and religion.
I've been reasoning through all this stuff with the Kings and pointing out all the things Murray gets wrong, but you fall back to "trust the coach of 30 years arguments." Bogus.
The team and players were at their best early in the season before Murray's system had even been around very long. Is it the coach or the players responsible for losing 3rd period leads? Early on I'd agree it was the players, but now I believe it's the coaching. Murray bottled it all after our first Ducks game. He changed everything and didn't reward the players that stepped up. He was too busy trying to punish small mistakes.
I agree my final "Depends" comment was childish.
I regret saying things like that, but I'm really frustrated and there's nothing I can do about it.
It's unfortunate, too, because discovering this blog and the interaction with other fans is really fun. But I know this team is either fumbling the season on purpose for a high draft pick, or trying to play it cheap. So I feel like an idiot supporting a team that isn't trying to be it's best.
The last 2 seasons I kept hockey at an arms length and watched more english football. I think I should drop my interest level back down and enjoy a league where every game is intense.

Zeiler and Co have been on the ice for more than just the one goal. It's the glaring mistakes that i see rookies making that, in my opinion, need to be corrected now, before they become habitual. You're not going to change the stripes of a Zeiler. He is, what he is. Guys like Boyle and Purcell need to know that mistakes cannot be tolerated nor will nights off. Their future is ahead of them and its times like now, that will shape their futures. I go back to Sully after he was sent down. they brought him back up and made him play sound, defensive hockey. He became a complete player because of that. He was one dimensional prior to that demotion. Was it tough love? Probably, but look how much better he is.

I get your point of the fatcats, but I don't lump TM in there with the old boys network. He brought fresh ideas to the Kings and he's made them more defensively responsible. There's a loooong way to go before they are in the elite class, but it was a 1st step. Coming into the season I didn't expect much more than seeing improvement. I've seen that so far and hopefully it continues.

I sense your frustration. I'm a frustrated fan since...way back...this is the 1st time, other than the Gretzky era, that I see something that resembles a future. I'll ride it out as long as they continue to show improvement...not game to game, but season to season. If the improvement stops or recedes, then I'll be cheering for the ouster of DL and TM.