Murray still not happy

I just got off the phone with Terry Murray after practice, as I wanted to get his feelings the day after last night’s loss. Not surprisingly, the hit on Drew Doughty, and the way the Kings responded to it (or, perhaps, didn’t respond to it) remained a major topic of conversation. Here’s what Murray said…


Question: What kind of conversation did you have with the players today, after last night’s loss?

MURRAY: “There were some issues we needed to discuss as a team, and they will need to be followed up on. It was the Doughty thing, more than anything else. We need to identify when something like that happens and respond to it in the proper fashion. OD was trying to do the right thing in protecting his teammate and his partner, and I give him credit for that, but I just felt there needed to be a response. OD did the right thing, but as the shifts went on, we didn’t have any type of response.”

Question: What should have been the proper response?

MURRAY: “Somebody needs to challenge him. You can drop the gloves. That’s one thing you can do. I’m not sending players out there specifically to do that, but that needs to be an instinctive part of the business if you’re a player. You need to get out there and have a response, or at least start something, have a conversation in the faceoff circle. Maybe there’s just a scrum with guys pushing each other around, or a facewash. You have to do something to acknowledge it, to say, `We’re not going to tolerate this and we’re going to support our teammate.’ It’s important that we support our teammates. Not just (Doughty), but every player.”

Question: Do you get a sense of why nobody stepped up there? Is that a leadership issue?

MURRAY: “There just needs to be some initiative on it, by any one of the players. It’s not a leadership issue. Somebody just needs to respond at a critical time when something like that happens. It doesn’t fall on any one player’s shoulers in particular. I know Raitis went out a couple times looking for something and he got turned down, but it’s important to just follow through. It’s important to send a message, not just to (Artyukhin) but to the teams we’re going to play in the future, to say, `We’re not going to tolerate this.”’

Question: Did you think that was a bad hit by Artyukhin?

MURRAY: “It was a knee, and he followed through very hard and heavy. The read by all of us was that there was intent there.”

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  • Quisp

    I do enjoy the idea that Ivanans got “turned down.” “Sorry, man, busy.” “Can’t we just be friends?” “Maybe later, I’m trying to run up the score now.”

  • hockeyfanb4 gretzky

    is it Me or are we realy missing cammi and lubo?.


    I don’t blame Murray for being unhappy, but take a look at the boxscore…;_ylt=Ah1GznTTHoZS1ru88oaOTlt7vLYF?gid=2009011208

    Under 9 minutes total ice time for Armstrong, Calder, Boyle, Ivanans.
    4 players from 3 different lines playing under 9 minutes – while frolov is playing over 25 in the same game is just plain unbalanced.

    Get Handzoos on the 4th line with Ivan and whomever and roll 4 lines more consistently.
    At least TRY and let the players settle into something somewhat consistent…

  • Will Hutchison

    Ivanans should have just taken the instigator, and forced Artukyin to fight or at least pummeled him if he turned turtle.

    Tampa was not going to fight, so what? Fight them anyway, like Simmonds did to poor Yan Stasny in St. Louis a while back. The Ducks would have been over the boards if this had happen to Bobby Ryan.

    There needed to be a response, O’Sullivan said in the interview during the game the Kings should hit Tampa’s best players; they did not do that.

    This is hockey, if your best defensemen is run, then you run their guy. Hopefully the players dicussed this at the team meeting after the game.

  • Scott

    Bring up Flinn! Err, bring up Richard Clune!!!

  • Anonymous

    It wouldn’t surprise me, Quisp, if no one wanted to fight Ivanans. But that raises the question, why is he there? Why not bring in Westgarth or something of that nature? Are people more willing to fight a rookie than to fight Ivanans?

  • brianguy

    good point ETR

  • Cry Baby

    This is how you respond when someone takes a cheap shot at one of your best players. This scrum happens after Walker sucker punched Jovonowski.

    Good for Murray calling out the team, there should have been a response. Maybe there will be some fire for Detroit???

  • JDM

    This was all a big issue for sure,

    the bigger issue?


    Our only scoring chances came when a player was rarely willing (usually Simmonds) to cut into a center lane and get a shot, or atleas throw the puck near the front of the net. CRASH CRASH CRASH.

    No one is willing to take the punishment. Talk about forecheck all day, don’t mean squat if you can’t get a body or two to stand in the mid and low slot. Period.

    They would do it every so often, get a scoring chance, and then for the next 4 shifts it would be the same old drive it wide and put it behind the net. That would be fine, if we had strong board play, but aside from Frolov, no one could get their stick on a puck along the boards. Missed nearly every one. Purcell was a big culprit of this.

    Yes, punch out Artyukin. Better revenge would be to drive every damn puck and player towards the front of the net. That’s how you get goals, but doing that ALL GAME, not just once every several shifts.

    They have to be willing to take the punishment and get beat up by the defenseman by driving to the net. But it seems no one is willing to take that punishment, whereas every on the team needs to be willing if we are going to have any chance of scoring goals.

    Hopefully Thursday they can all take a good long look at Holmstrom. Everyone talks about how the Wings don’t need enforcers because they play a skill game. The best skill game in the world still needs players causing havok in front of the net and willing to get knocked the f*** out by driving to the net from the corners.

    If Sully takes one more shot from outside the hash marks I’m going to start thinking of him in terms of trade bait. Really aggrivating me.

    Why is a rookie (Simmonds), the only one with any fire? Usually the vets have to teach the rooks to bring it every night, not the other way around. If Kopi and Fro and Sully, hell even Brown lately, were as willing to drive to the net as Simmonds, with all their skill, there is no way we could NOT score goals, and pleanty of them.

    The hockey gods don’t give breaks or gifts, they grant rewards for tough, muck it out in the crease play.

    Also, we have no speed.

    We need Johnson, badly.

  • anthony

    You’re the bomb to keep this informed.

  • Deano Lombardo

    There are just way too many SOFT players on this team. We dont hit enough, and we certainly dont fight enough and the guys that do fight are as bad as Delahoya. Maybe DL should give Burke a call and ask for some advice.

  • Triple Crown

    So much to be disappointed in, the slow starts, the total lack of paying the price in front of the net & in the corners, the absolute inexusable response to Doughty being hit … it seems like EVERY single player on this team is coming up short right now in the areas they are on the team for in the first place, whether it be finishing around the net (Kopitar, O’Sullivan), driving the net (Calder, Brown), standing up for teammates (everyone), etc. It’s hard to read everyone talk on and on about what they should do, but not do it. The x’s and o’s might be difficult to execute all the time, but you own your own attitude.

    There is plenty wrong beyond the obvious stuff, what about Handzus getting beat cleanly on two face-off’s against NJ resulting directly in two goals. And that’s with the home team having the rules advantage on the draw ? If he can’t win important face-off’s at home, what exactly is his primary value ?

    I know a lot of players have taken shots in this space this year, but is anyone providing LESS value right now that Purcell ? Very disappointing, especially since he was even considered a top 6 forward option back in camp. Geez …


    I thought all we needed was to get rid of Cammy, Lubo, and Labs and everything would be OK because it was THOSE PLAYERS who were the problem?

  • Nick

    The Kings are tougher on paper than they have ever been but weaker on the ice. I guarantee you past Kings like Lappy, Grimson, Brennan or Kostopolous would have done something…hell even Avery would have done something to the Bolts players…

    Kings are missing that element. If I was DL or Murray I would give Clune or Westgarth a hard look right now.

  • mrbrett7

    ETR…your point about the ice time is valid, but your forgetting one small point.

    Special teams. There was quite a bit of special teams, and has been the last two games. Boyle, Armstrong, Calder, Ivanans…at this point (some used to) don’t really play on either the PP nor the PK. When that happens, ice times will be skewed the way you are seeing.

    Personally, when the PP wasn’t working, I would have liked to have seen both Boyle and Calder on the PP. Calder may have hands make out of bricks, but he does a good job of getting the puck deep and digging it out in the corners, something O’Sullivan REALLY NEEDS TO PAY ATTENTION TO.

  • ose

    I have been a Kings fan for years and as this topic has come up before The Kings and management have failed to do anything about it in recent history. What the Kings should look at was the way Mary McSorley played when called upon. The Kings are playing like pussy’s Remember Ziggy, His arm gets yanked upon by a duck no response from the bench we loose Ziggy for the season. Just one example. Wake up and play NHL hockey.



    I can see your point, but I’d like to see the same 5on5 lines on the PP. I think it can only lead to more “chemistry” between the lines.
    Why not leave Fro/Kop/Brown out on the PP?
    WHy not leave O’S Boyle Purcell on the PP?

    Why does TM have Calder/Stoll/Simmonds together 1 shift every couple games and not go with that as a line?
    I’ve been calling for that “grind line” for months and have seen it effectively cycle, create shots, and possess the puck each time I see it when it gets a full shift together.
    Isn’t it obvious that Zoos, not Stoll, should be the 4th line center if we’re going to play Boyle on the top lines?

  • Anonymous

    Something had to be done and it didn’t get done. Lucky fo rthe “tough” kings they wont have to worry about fighting in the next game because they play Det.

  • vicarious

    The opponent got in a cheap shot and it was hard for the Kings to respond in this game due to game considerations. 5-6 guys tried to call Artyukhin out. Seems to me that is a reasonable response. The Kings did not jump him at the time of the hit b/c the puck had already gone up ice: no one saw the play but for O’Donnel who took a penalty. What else does the coach want?

    As far as protecting the team, let’s see what happens next time Kings play Tampa. One more cheap shot by Artyukhin and he should not be surprised when someone ends him.

    On the other hand, seems to me the season is so long that getting in these wars just ensures your best players will get injured when someone else retaliates.

  • mrbrett7

    Yes and no ETR. I agree, BUT, Stoll is in the dog house right now. You have to think of this as more than just a couple of games.

    Yes, because Stoll brings more offensively, but in order to do this, you must roll 4 lines effectively (in my opinion at least). But, with Stoll’s play over the last 2 weeks or so, he is playing right where he belongs, centering the 4th line. I wouldn’t be shocked to see him take a seat in the press box for a game here soon.



    But that type of thinking will only lead to more confusion and more losses.
    Stoll may have had some things go against him, but he’s working as hard, or harder, than anyone out there.
    I think that the lines should be made up with the best chemistry in mind, and as far as I see it, the 4th line is much better and much more sensible if it’s Handzoos playing there with this setup.
    The players are looking confused and out of sync because the matchups are all wrong.
    Earlier in the season, Murray was saying, “we’ll worry about ourselves and our game,” but now he’s saying that he changed the starting lineup as response to what TB did in it’s last game against Anaheim. Where’s the consistency?

    Plus, if anyone should have sat last night out as punishment it should have been Greene.
    And, if a forward should have been demoted to the 4th for not “digging in” it’s Handzoos who was too weak on the PK faceoffs. Remember that NJ scored within seconds of winning the faceoff.

    I’m not saying consistent lines will get us to the playoffs, but we’d better just start worrying about our own balanced game rather than trying to force things with so many changes, different looks, and punishments.
    The thing with Stoll is particularly annoying because that penalty for clearing over the boards was cleared into the benches. Its not like the guy just fired it clear over the glass a la Doughty against Anaheim. Plus, Stoll’s still a pretty young guy. He may be a Vet, but he’s only 26/27.

  • Anonymous

    You folks in LA do realize that Flinn as been gone from the organization for years and Clune has been out hurt (again) since November.

  • mrbrett7

    He did that to try to protect Kopitar. If Tampa is going to put their goon on the first line and start him against our first line, who is going to stop him from running your best player? That is/was why Ivanans started the game with Kopitar and Brown.

    You asked why it wasn’t Frolov and Kopitar? Wrong position. Frolov and Ivanans are both LW’s, meanwhile Brown is a RW.

    I understand your point, and I too am getting frustrated with the constant line changes, and at some point, Murray really needs to keep some of the guys together for more than 2 shifts.

    Then I remember something that many of us are forgetting. Murray knows more about hockey than all of us combined, in one little squirt of his urine. We all must remember that there is a bigger picture here, and as badly as we all want to see this team succeed this season, it was probably never going to happen anyway…growing this season and learning this season was probably always the case.

    Remember…you have Doughty, Moller, Simmonds, Quincy, Quick, Boyle…that’s 6 rookies right there, and the bulk of the rest of the team is made up of guys who have had multiple coaches in their professional careers and are all under 25 years old. There is SO much room to grow that none of us have any idea…the hockey minds leading this franchise know more than any of us could ever dream to know.

  • mrbrett7

    Forgot to add…it doesn’t mean they are right, but they still know more about this game than any living soul within the greater Los Angeles area.

  • Someone

    Plain and simple. If Artyukhin isn’t going to man up then you start running their stars.

    As soon as Artyukhin refused to go with Ivanans, St. Louis, Prospal, and Lecavalier should have all had big red targets on them. Hit ’em every chance you can and as hard as you can. Tampa Bay should have left that game pissed off.



    It doesn’t matter if you line Ivan up on the right or on the left if his job is to nail Artukin to the wall.

    Plus, why the f#@k not try Brown and O’Sullivan on the off wing, for pete’s sake?
    I’ve been saying flip-flop them now for weeks.
    Sometimes playing on the off-wing can spark some scoring.
    Murray has never played as a forward in his life, so I’m sure he doesn’t personally know this, but most coaches seem to give it a go when things are stale.

    Brown/Boyle/O’Sullivan – it’s that easy.

    Forgot to add…it doesn’t mean they are right, but they still know more about this game than any living soul within the greater Los Angeles area.

    mrbrett, do you know who lives in the LA area? Gretzky and Larionov are two of your neighbors. I think they know a few more things than our leadership. They’ve actually both won about 4 cups each, amongst other things.

  • Someone

    It’s one of the few times you can say this, but sticking up for Doughty would have been better in the overall development of this team than the two points.

    Their focus was misplaced.

  • Anonymous

    Didnt that fat ass already get a penalty for charging in the first period. His intentions were obvious and he accomplished what he intended to. I couldn’t quit thinking about it on the drive home last night. Believe me I have been taking losing in stride for many years and continually attend 96% of the home games and will probably attend until I can’t get in the car anymore.last night was the first time I can remember leaving early (2 min left) as far as I’m concerned the whole team should have targeted that fat bas****. Everybody bags on zieler but I would bet money he would of made a solid attempt to do what needed to be done. Ivanans do what your here to do and put your figure skates away for a while. Captain Brown (who we all love to watch play ) it’s times like these when you need to show why you have that C on your chest. Ya you give us a 110% night in and night out but it’s times like these that need special handling. Well if any thing positve comes out of this I hope that Drew learned what not to do when this happens to one of his team mates down the road. Thanks OD for at least attempting to retaliate.

    Dissapointed in sec 112

  • Quisp

    Career coaching stats:

    Terry Murray 377-296-89-17 (.552) / Playoffs 46-43
    Wayne Gretzky 128-139-0-22 (.481) / Playoffs 0-0
    Igor Larionov 0-0-0-0 (.000) / Playoffs 0-0

    Re “The thing with Stoll is particularly annoying because that penalty for clearing over the boards was cleared into the benches”:

    That can’t be, since it’s not a penalty if you clear the puck out of play into the bench area.

    Stoll: he’s putting up numbers on a par with his two crappy seasons, not his one stand-out season. This is bad news. He needs to play better. I fully appreciate his experience, his face-off skills, his shot, his ability to body-check. He needs to score also.

    “the 4th line is much better and much more sensible if it’s Handzoos [sic] playing there

    Handzus gets too many minutes in key defensive matchups to be the center on the fourth line, unless it’s really just the third or second line but you’re calling it the fourth line. If you’re talking about a line that gets 7 minutes a game, that’s not going to happen. If you want a fourth unit that gets fifteen minutes a game, you’re really just giving the third line a different number.


    I have to wonder where management is on this Artyukin hit.
    Are they not taking video to the league?
    Does the League itself not take a look at this?
    Do they want Vigilante Justice to continue to be the primary marketing tool?
    Or, do they want young, talented hockey players making headlines with their hockey skills?

  • Quisp

    Eat –

    I am sure beyond the shadow of any doubt that DL is livid. The league automatically reviews all hits that result in injury. I don’t know if this guy has any history of attempt to injure — but if so, I would expect a suspension. If not, maybe not.

    No coach or GM in the post-Bertuzzi/Moore era is going to go anywhere near “creating a climate where players feel they must take the law into their own hands.” I thought Murray was choosing his words very carefully. Still, he and DL have consistently shown a preference for gritty players who stand up for each other and aren’t afraid to mix it up. I expect that they both have opinions about who ought to have done something.



    I take it you’re talking to me again.
    But you’re quoting coaching stats when I’m responding to the obvious false statement that our leaders know more about hockey than anyone in the Los Angeles area.
    But I do find it strange that Murray has coached some pretty good teams but he’s only slightlly better percentage-wise than Gretzky’s mess in Phoenix. A .070 difference in winning percentage.
    Also telling the T Murray is only 55% in the win column.
    But in Trophies there is, of course, no comparison. Besides Stanley Cups those two have won in the International arena as well.

    The Stoll penalty certainly looked like it went through the bench area. Maybe I’m wrong. But I still don’t agree with the punishment. I’d rather see someone punished for NOT clearing the zone at all when they have the opportunity. But there would be only about 4 guys on the bench at that point.

    Stoll is at least giving an effort. He, typically, is getting some heat because the coach is mixing things up too much and the GM has perhaps stripped the team a little too bare. Pick and choose the numbers as you will – the fact remains that it is LA that is perpetually a black hole for a players numbers, not the other way around… Again, if it’s numbers you’re after with Stoll and your dissatisfaction you can always fall back on the “improvement of the defense” to give him a break. Or, you could realize that Murray has every forward underachieving. He can’t even get Ivan to kick some ass when he puts him in the lineup. I give you McLeod and Artyukin as evidence.

    What greater “KEY” moments are there than covering for weak defensive linemates? Unless you don’t want the 4th line on the ice at all. Take a look at the boxscore and explain how our 2nd line center plays under 9 minutes. Or how 4 players from 3 different lines played under 9 minutes.
    I don’t create these situations and problems. I’m just trying to figure out why they keep happening. I don’t care if Handzoos plays 2 minutes and scores the game winner in overtime and gets No. 1 star of the game as long as things work consistently and we win.
    Plus, he played like feces on Saturday. He’s a veteran. He’s lucky he had a spot in the lineup, let alone centering the 4th line.
    Again, no consistency.



    I don’t doubt that they’re angry either, but I’d like to see them change the mindset in the NHL and start sending in tape of the BS that is going on.

    I’d refer to the Ovechkin hit on Brown here as well.
    We fans see what happened and yet the officials and the league say nothing.
    Then, we have to see our own players (Zeiler) suspended for a borderline hit. I still contend that under the leagues rules, that the hit was legal and if I had the opportunity I could compile a never-ending video of legal checking in the back/numbers.
    JDM made a great point.
    There are literally hundreds of infractions a game that go unpenalized. Until there is some form of consistency with the officiating, the sport is a joke.
    Everyone thinks that I was whining about the WJC’s but its something I’m always talking about… horrible officiating and a league that totally supports it by being indifferent and disinterested.

    I have a feeling its got a lot to do with MARKETING and MONEY because the end result is fighting and vigilantism.

    Good to talk to you again, quisp.

  • Quisp

    Eat –

    I am happy to discuss these various topics with you as long as you try not to accuse me of lying or being un-American — to pick the two most recent accusations — both so far beyond the pale and so goofy as to render moot any response.

    Re Murray: but if you look at his season-by-season stats, you will see that, of the 7 complete seasons he coached NHL teams (in WAS, PHI and FLA), he amassed 93-103 point totals five times. That’s a very high success rate.

    Your point about his winning % being not that far from Gretzky’s is interesting. But you should note that Scotty Bowman is at .657, Babcock at .650 (approx, I forget the exact number), Hitchcock at .592, Keenan at .551. Murray is at .552. If you think about what this number means in terms of point totals, it makes sense:

    93 points in the standings is a winning % of .567. Murray is right up against that figure, as is Keenan, which ought to translate to pretty consistently being either in the playoffs or close to being in but falling short (which it does). Babcock and Bowman, the high end of the spectrum, get about one more point out of every ten possible points, on average, and you would think they are virtually always in the playoffs (true). Gretzky’s number suggest consistently falling short (also true).

  • Daoust501

    Does anyone remember “Paul Mulvey?” Do we have a bench full of Paul Mulveys?

    Not only did the hit on Doughty have a weak response, but later Brown got hammered hard in front of the Tampa net like a pinball. End result was a Tampa defenseman on top of Brown and Frolov just standing there like a statue. I thought for sure he would at least try to pull the guy off of Brown, but nothing. I know Fro is a lover not a fighter, but you have to stick up for your teammates. Come on Fro, can’t you at least give him a little facewash, or insult his mothersomething?!

    The Kings looked confused all night. Is it the constant line juggling? Or something else? Time to take a deep breath, regroup and come out with an aggressive attitude against the Wings.

    Now get out there and don’t just dance!


    All true, Quisp, but the point was that there may be more hockey knowledge lurking around that mrbrett was thinking.
    I’m not trying to get Murray gone, I’m pointing out that there are other approaches that are valid, while maintaining the idea that someone like Larionov might think about coming in as an assistant if he were approached.

    I support what Murray is trying to do defensively but I think he makes some mistakes along the way. The line combo’s/juggling is a part of it.
    Admittedly, they can’t officially write off the playoffs until we’re mathematically out, but if the focus is on getting better maybe Murray needs to refocus his methods.
    Like I said in another post, there are some positives in the last 2 games. Why not focus on the positives than on demoting players and focusing on what went wrong.

    In the NJ game I thought our top lines did a pretty good job of possession in NJ’s end.
    Last night Quick came in and shut the door for 2 periods.
    Boyle was being more physical.
    Harrold played A LOT of good, clean minutes.
    Quincey has been flawless.
    Frolov and Kopitar look good together.

    I think Murray has gotten away from what was working earlier on.
    Heck, he might even find better results playing Calder with Frolov/Kopitar.

    Exchanging Boyle and Zoos occasionally if the 4th line isn’t getting at least 10 minutes, or if Boyle tires.

    Oh, and quit splitting Kopitar and Frolov up on the Power Play.


    And Quisp,
    I find it important to retain a sense of humor about these things.
    I don’t mind being called a troll or unhinged because I don’t take quasi-pseudo-insults too seriously. I realize its an argument about Games – nothing life and death.

  • Marc Nathan

    Artyukhin is a big guy, and despite his official size and weight, not really a Grade A thug/enforcer. But, that being said, his job is to use his body and hit hard. That he “led with the knee” was unfortunate, because he’s not the most graceful skater, so who the hell knows what his “intent” was, other than to “finish his check” which is something all bigger players try to do (save for Brian Boyle, I suppose… smirk.) I’ve watched this guy more than a handful of times, and I’ve actually been impressed with him more often than not. I don’t honestly believe he went out there with intent to injure, but when you’re that big and you have a chance to nail someone, you do it. Ivanans would more often than not, but since he sucks, he ends up taking stupid hooking penalties trying to chase those he can’t catch up to. Doughty – right place, wrong time. It’s a friggin’ thigh contusion. He wasn’t knocked head first into the boards from a charging Artyukhin coming from 15 feet. That the ref missed a chance to call a 2 minute minor is probably the worst offense. I’m over it.

    What I’m not over is that Kopitar, O’Sullivan, Brown, and even Frolov, despite his goal totals, have all taken a HUGE offensive stride backwards this season, and a team that has played TWENTY NINE home games out of their first hald of the season has proven time and time again, it can’t score goals… That’s an area of concern.

    Whether people should be headhunting or thighhunting is secondary to the fact that there’s a popgun offense that can’t pull the trigger, and rarely gets it’s fingers on the gun.

  • nykingfan

    We’re all thankful that it’s just a thigh contusion, but a couple of inches lower and it very easily could have been a knee on knee hit. Intentional or not, how would you be feeling about that today?

    It’s not just about the goal scoring. It’s about this team playing together as a team….wanting to win for each other. By not going back after Artukyn, it gives the impression that they don’t care about protecting each others back. That’s not going to help you win. in fact, that will kill a team….no matter how many goals Kop/Brown/Sully/Fro score.

    The goal scoring will come…they haven’t lost their talent or ability. They just aren’t doing the little things like forechecking and causing turnovers in the offensive zone. Once you do the basics, the creativity will come. It’s about confidence. getting some ugly gaols might be the cure.

  • Duckhunter

    Well unfortunately I think Marc Nathan is pretty much on target with his post. I also don’t think the Artyukhin hit was intentional, I think as stated above, he was just trying to finish his check. Lets not cry foul because it was our beloved Doughty(no sarcasm here, I love the kid too) that got hit. Does everybody have the same reaction when Brown lays out Niedermayer or Phaneuf or the others he bulls through, or do you cheer and say, “great hit” Brownie? This is a violent contact sport and Doughty is a rising star, so get use to it, because more and more teams are going to go after him.

    nykingfan, there’s a common denominator between the two points you make. First point, sticking up for each other. Second point, forechecking and going to areas for ugly goals. There’s many other points we can make with the same common denominator. We both know what that is….