Scary moment in Monarchs game

Last night in an AHL game in Philadelphia, a Phantoms player suffered an on-ice seizure after a fight with Manchester Monarchs forward (and recent Kings call-up) Kevin Westgarth. Philadelphia’s Garrett Klotz and Westgarth fought moments after the opening faceoff, and Westgarth landed a few solid punches before Klotz fell to the ice and began convulsing. Klotz was taken from the ice via stretcher but, according to an Associated Press report, Klotz was “alert and responsive on the way to the hospital and watched the rest of the game on TV.”

TSN has video of the incident and its aftermath here.

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  • Paul from Oxnard

    Thanks for posting this. I hope the kid is ok.

  • Cry Baby

    A very scary moment indeed.

    Fighting is a exciting part of hockey but it seems there are more and more serious injuries are happening as a result.

    I would hate to see fighting removed from hockey but I would hate to see more serious injuries even more.

    Not sure what the answer is?

  • Anonymous

    post-syncopal seizures are actually very common

  • jediknight329

    yes, a scary moment indeed.

    however, injuries or incidents like this are rare in hockey. there tragically was a death late last year after a player hit is head on the ice. i remember back a few years ago when then king, ryan flinn hit his head on the ice at staples after a fight.

    when these happen, the media jumps all over it. i get a little pissed because many more players in college and pro football get injured then hockey players during games. how many race car drivers die on the track each year? how many boxers die each year in the ring? no one seems to want to stop boxing. no one wants to stop contact in football. they actually made it worse a few years ago by placing kickoffs farther back. this creates less endzone touchbacks.

    competitive sports can be dangerous. i don’t think anyone goes into those sports and says “this is so easy, like jumping rope”. people know the risks.

    removing fighting from the ice will inevitibly create more dangerous hitting and stick penalties. don’t take the policing of the ice off the ice. let the players play the game.

  • The Kinger

    I am gald to see that Klotz is going to be okay. It is a scary thing for that to happen.

    I agree with Cry Baby, that I too am not sure what the awnser is. Fighting is a part of the sport as guys stand up for each other. There is a code of conduct for these guys to help minimize serious injuries but they still happen. Is it just one of those things that could have happened as a result of a hard check? I don’t think any sport is free from freak accidents and serious injuries. Just not sure, but don’t like to see these kids get hurt like that. ????????????

  • Scott

    Yeah, I think there would be more dangerous penalties if fighting was expunged completely. Emotions run high out there and a guy might feel inclined to take someone’s head off if he couldn’t resolve the situation by simply dropping the gloves. Doubtful that any player is looking to severely hurt anyone, with the purpose rather of inflicting just enough punishment to keep his opponent honest… Hope Klotz is alright. Sounds like he is.

    With Westgarth and Ivanans out there, I’m sure opponents will think twice about finishing off those checks against Fro, Brown, Kopi, Sully, and Doughty. (At least I hope we don’t see a repeat of the failure to defend Doughty.)

  • markisonfire

    I don’t mean to seem unsympathetic, but they were both their team’s enforcer, and each stand at 6’5. This is just an unfortunate situation and we all pray that Klotz is okay. However, it isn’t like Westgarth dished out a beating to a smaller and unwilling opponent. They both dropped their gloves together. That’s why they call it an accident – it wasn’t meant to happen, but now that it has, we all hope he is okay.

  • Gary

    There is a reason that fighting is allowed in hockey and it isn’t just for entertainment. It is to defend your players.

    This is a very dangerous sport. In order to protect your teammates from danger, you have to enact a serious form of retribution — if you are going to hurt someone, you yourself are going to get hurt in response.

    Consider fighting a form of checks and balances.

  • Al

    Ok, so they are their teams enforcers …. so what, what the hell are they doing dropping the gloves on the opening face-off????????????? An enforcer is to take care of his top players when they roughed up or run …. what’s with these guys today???????? This crap of “do you wanna go” is B.S. you drop them only when it is really called for. Crap no wonder talk our game down.

  • Goon Squad


    I agree, dropping the gloves on the opening faceoff should probably carry extra penalties as well as a fine to the coaches. I’ve said it for a while now, you don’t have to take fighting out of the game, just take enforcers out of the game.

    The guys who take cheap shots aren’t going to fight Raitis Ivanans anyway. There is no deterrent – it’s BS. You need team toughness and guys who will throw down when it is called for. Not a circus sideshow.

  • Anon-Oh-Muse

    Fighting does not need to be an integral part of the game if you have the skill to play well. Look at teams like DET who routinely have less fighting majors than all teams yet compete for the Cup every year AND do not lose many guys to injury.

    Sure, there is a time or place for fights (when a player gets ran in a dangerous manner, when someone is truly taking liberties with your stars), but when you send out a goon to “get the crowd/your team going” you are putting a lot of danger on the line.

    Again, DET does not even carry an enforcer at this time and seem to be doing fine in the standings.

  • Moondoggie

    It was a good fight and quite a pounding that Westgarth gave Klotz prior to his collapse. I do hope Klotz is ok. It is unfortunate but part of the game and a rarity in the NHL. I’d hate to see the fighting go. It looked like Westgarth caught him in the side of the head, possibly the temple that caused Klotz to collapse. I don’t know, better headgear perhaps? It has always amazed me that so many of the players don’t wear full face shields; one bad slapper and…..obviously a face shield wouldn’t have helped in this situation.

    The concern with the Phantoms & the Monarch players was obvious, especially with Westgarth. You hope it doesn’t impact their play in the future but it would be difficult not to.

    Hopefully all are ok. Best wishes for Garrett Klotz, the Phantoms & the Monarchs. Very unfortunate.

  • anthony

    Yeah I’m sure my kids would have enjoyed seeing Klotz oonvulge on the ice.

    Let there be an end to this, before someone dies.

  • Quisp

    Fighting. Eh. Take it out. Make fighting an automatic suspension, and define it as any punch thrown (to avoid a rash of “roughing” penalties for actual fights). Yes, there will be more stick-related injuries or whatever other kinds of retaliations. Crack down on those too. Any attempt to injure penalty should be an automatic suspension. Also eliminate all deliberate shots to the head.

    For every one idiot non-fan who won’t pay to see a game because he heard there’s no fighting, there will be one family who will now buy four tickets because they don’t have to explain to their toddlers why fighting is good.

    I would also consider eliminating the five minute major entirely and instead force the penalized player to play without shin pads.

  • Quisp

    I should say, also, that I find hockey fights to be, if not boring, then at least the dullest way to “pay back” someone for a cheap shot. If the argument is supposed to be that fighting “protects the star players,” let’s just take out the middle-man. Take the Doughty situation, for example. In the enforcer/fighting paradigm, you’ve got this:

    Big dumb enforcer hurts Doughty. Then (in theory), our big dumb enforcer fights their big dumb enforcer and they both get five. How is that a disincentive? They like fighting and getting five minute penalties. They’re enforcers!

    If there’s a reason a team might think twice about running your star players, it would be that they don’t want their own star players to get run. But this has nothing to do with fighting. Ivanans is not going to throw down with Stamkos.

    The only reason the league doesn’t want to get rid of fighting is that people cheer when it happens and they like cheering because they think it means more money. I actually think that’s short-sighted. Get rid of the stigma against hockey and you’ll have more kids playing hockey and more families involved in hockey and more people going to games, etc..

  • 4thlinechecker

    Quispy, I think this is the first time i’ve disagreed with you. Fighting has long been part of the game, and needs to stay that way. However I am glad that they fight alot less then they did 20 years ago.

    If anything, I think the stigma against hockey is that there isn’t enough scoring. Most people I have spoken to like the fighting/hitting part.

    The main reason why more kids are’nt playing, is A) $$$ Most local hockey clubs are about $2500.00 per season for a 5 year old, not including equipment, uniforms, and travel/tournaments etc. up to 15-20k per year for a 12 year old playing on a tier team. B)Hockey isnt like baseball, basketball, football, soccer, you can’t just go outside and play the game in most parts of the country.

  • Scott

    Quisp, I agree with the automatic suspensions for players that deliberately go out to injure (a la Todd Bertuzzi) but you’re making it seem like fighting is the main attraction. When you have big, strong men moving as fast as they do in an enclosed rectangle, confrontations are inevitable, the physical toll ties into the fatalism of the game. You would probably see more of it in football if it weren’t for the face masks and slower pace.

    And to the contrary, I view it as a valuable lesson to kids. It shows them that it is a tough world but through hard work, determination and persistance, you can overcome those obstacles. Sometimes, exchanging fists is a better option than seeing two guys shoot at each other.

    For those fans that get drunk and watch to expressly see a fight, I couldn’t care less if they don’t get what they want.

  • Sissyboy

    I’m with Quisp on this one.

    Fighting isn’t any more a “part of the game” than floral arrangement or synchronized swimming. If you consider how the game has been played in the Olympics and other international competitions, in European leagues, in youth organizations around the world, etc., etc., etc., by boys, girls, men and women, for decades and decades, it seems that fighting is only “part of the game” in a certain region in North America, the same place that is responsible for that hallowed, sophisticated notion of sportsmanship known as “The Code”. Some day, in the hopefully not-too-distant future, fighting will be a mere footnote in the history of the game, considered the Great White North’s peculiarly unique contribution to what was once considered “Canada’s game”.

    Don’t get me wrong. I love Canada. Been there many times. Beautiful land, great cities, warm friendly people. And yes, by far the richest tradition of hockey on the planet. But they need to get over themselves and grow up when it comes to the whole fighting in hockey thing. When you think about it — dropping the gloves, “The Code”, “the enforcer”, “payback” etc., etc. are all founded on a very deep-rooted DISrespect for the game, for the notion of fair play, and for the value of entertainment. Is this the only way to respond to a dirty hit (or a clean hit, for that matter)? An eye for an eye for an eye for a eye. Classy stuff. I’m sure that’s what inspired Gretzky and Lemieux to lace ’em up. Hmm, let’s see here — skating, stick handling, passing, shooting, saving, checking, grinding, shot blocking, taking a faceoff… and fighting??? It’s no wonder that the majority of sports fans in all the major American markets don’t care much for the NHL product. I think it’s a true shame that the sport of hockey has to suffer from this myopic clinging to the attitude that fighting and the whole ethos that makes up “The Code” is “part of the game”. Talk about Neanderthal. Just thinking about all this, I’m starting to see visions of Don Cherry waving the Canadian flag and Todd Bertuzzi running down Steve Moore, to the cheers of thousands.

    In which other professional sports do you hear about athletes who had no other way of getting to the big leagues unless they learned how to fight? How many boxers got to have a title bout thanks to their ability to deke Lidstrom and go top shelf on Luongo?

    Maybe they should develop a new type of extreme sport : Ice Boxing. You dress up like a hockey player, skate onto a little ring/rink of ice, and bash away until only one is left standing. Better yet, the WWF ought to branch out in this direction. I’m sure it would be a hit in Toronto.

    I kind of have this sad fear that the future of the NHL will ultimately depend on how courageous the league is when it comes to eventually banning fighting. If they do, I really believe it will be a boost to the sport and we’ll see the league expand its popularity, if not its presence, all over the place. If they don’t, then I think the league will shrink, dwindle and ultimately be a mostly Canadian enterprise, rabidly popular north of the border, but an afterthought everywhere else. The best-skilled players in the world will play elsewhere.

    When I talk to sports fans of all stripes — even folks who love boxing, martial arts, football, etc. — most of them don’t respect hockey because of the fighting aspect, and therefore aren’t able to appreciate the dynamic athleticism at the heart of the sport. And I’m always embarrassed that more elite, professional athletes from various sports don’t support the game of hockey in the way they support other sports different than their own.

    Sure, it takes guts to drop the gloves, to give one and take one for the sake of frontier justice or entertainment or national pride or whatever. Really macho stuff, all that. But it takes a lot more guts to move toward a different, more respectful way of competing and giving us fans something to cheer for.

    Or maybe I’m just a wimp who isn’t satisfied with a nice, clean punishing body check?

  • tantrum4


    First off, I can see where you got your name from. Second, I am done sticking up for Canada and hockey to Americans like you who say hockey isn’t respected like the other sports are in the states like baseball and basketball because of the fighting. That is the most idiotic thing you could say, seeing how baseball and basketball both will have bench clearing brawls every time someone disagrees, throw chairs at each other, jump in the stands and beat up people in the crowd, throw 100 mph fastballs at someones head, take steroids on a regular basis, have a star pitcher throw a 70 year old team manager to the ground in front of 60,000 people etc, etc. Have you EVER seen anything like that in hockey in the last 20 years? Didn’t think so. The only reason people in the USA think hockey is all about fighting is because the only time one of your sports stations decide to show any hockey highlights is when a Bertuzzi, Avery or McSorley incident happens. Why not show someone scoring a goal once in a while? Because all Americans care about is violence. Hockey isn’t respected by Americans? Please, go back to your #1 watched sport, UFC…ha,ha

  • cristobal


    I support your arguments, pretty much whole heartedly.


    Tantrum – Do we need to dig up the Mike Danton, Dino Cicarelli, Graham James, and Theo Fleurry stories for you?
    Or, Patrich Roy, or his two sons? Martin Brodeur and his spousal abuse?
    Joe Corvo hitting women in bars? Chris Pronger fighting in bars?

    You’ve never heard of any of that?

    You’ve never seen sticks thrown on the ice?
    You don’t know Sean Avery almost got in a fight with his coach, Mark Hardy?
    You don’t know about a kid from UCLA paralyzed in an unsponsored hockey tournament from a check from behind?
    Alexei Cheraponov dying possibly as a result of using performance enhancing drugs?
    The story of two hockey dads getting in a fight over a practice and one ending up dead? Beaten in the head and DEAD? You hadn’t heard?
    Ted Green? Ace Bailey?
    Do you know these stories?

    There are tons of problems in hockey and just a couple weeks ago Don Sanderson died as a result of complications from a hockey fight.
    For those that don’t know, basically he fell on the ice, hit his head, went into a coma, and died 2 weeks later.

  • Marty

    Fighting in hockey is away of keeping the bullies honest.There is nothing like retribution.If you don’t like it tough luck.For you light in the loafer types its only found in junior and pros.

  • smokiemcpot

    this issue definitely has two sides. on one hand the fighting is part of this sport. on the other hand people can get hurt. for me… i think this westgarth brawl off the face-off is ridiculous. both of them should be suspended. going out wanting to fight people is wrong and is not part of the sport. play hockey and if someone throws a cheap shot then ef them up. i.e. there shouldn’t be players that can only fight. and that role of the fighter is being eliminated from the nhl because they are not necessary or needed for a competive team. yeah you need your tough players but they need to skate and they need to put up points. some fighting is good. to fight in every game is dumb and for no reason but to fight is dumb. IMO each fight should be reviewed and if the fight is pointless then those involved should be suspended. why fight if there is no reason…

  • tantrum4


    What the hell do Graham James (child molester), Mike Danton (tried to hire someone to kill his agent), Patrick Roy hitting his wife (not Martin Brodeur you jack@ss), Corvo hitting women or Pronger fighting in a bar, parents fighting,Ted Green and Ace Bailey from 40 YEARS AGO or Theo Fleury (alcoholic) have anything WHATSOEVER to do with what I was just talking about?….man sometimes I think you just type nonsense just so you can see your fake name on the internet and show your friends.

    If you wanna talk about things that happen away from the actual sport, I could sit here and probably type for about an hour all the things that football, baseball and basketball players have done!!!!!!! Guys selling drugs, doing drugs, getting caught with drugs, spitting in womens faces, hitting women, getting killed, getting shot, shooting themsleves, doing steroids….and that’s just THIS YEAR!!! Not to mention guys like Ray Lewis and OJ getting away with MURDER and Micheal Vick running a dog fighting ring!!! You ever hear about any of THAT??? HUH QUISP???? Give me a break man and don’t try to talk hockey with me…you’ve proven over and over again how little you actually know about the sport. See ya.

  • Anonymous

    I watched the Monarchs-Phily game and what happened was very upsetting. I though I saw Klotz tap Westy a couple of times just before the puck dropped. Listening to last night’s pregame interview with Coach Morris, he indicated that Klotz did infact tap Westy a couple of times challenging Westy. Morris thought was that with Klotz being a rookie, he was trying to make a name for himself and etc. by challenging an enforcer who was just sent down from the NHL. No way what so ever did Morris indicate that Klotz got what was coming to him. No one was blaming Klotz. It’s very unfortuate what happened to him and very glad to hear that he’s doing ok at this point.

  • Anonymous

    Quisp and Tantrum….CAT FIGHT!

    Personally…it bugs me when the refs stand there and watch when the guys are skating around in circles with their fists up staring at each other. In reality the REFS should get in trouble for not stepping in between them right then. I do however understand when your best player gets an intentional cheap shot and then your hit-man perhaps goes after the opposing player, (ie O’donnell after the Doughty hit) and I can also understand when 2 players are already wrapped up in each others arms before the ref steps in….but I just don’t get the ‘dance in a circle” thing ( Westgarth at the face off) and the refs not stepping in at that moment. Personally….at that point I think the players don’t really want to fight and are looking for the ref to step in before it starts.

  • Old Man

    Easy does it boys.

  • jediknight329

    folks, these are the facts…

    manistream media (in the u.s.), both print and tv don’t cover hockey. the local newspapers cover high school sports more than hockey. espn gives hockey a 1 minute segment a couple of times a week.

    when they do cover it, what are they showing – bertuzzi trying to kill someone and avery making a mockery of himself humiliating his ex’s and other hockey players. generally these types of things are rare with hockey players as compared to other athletes in other sports.

    anyone who says that fighting isn’t an integral part of the game is blind. it is and its there for special reasons. maybe in the 70’s it was the slap shot days, but today it is used to police the ice. period. anyone who states there isn’t a fighting code is also blind. just watch and you’ll see. anyone who thinks that there is too much fighting is also blind. people don’t fight just to fight. special circumstances that don’t happen all the time.

  • tantrum4

    Sorry Quisp, that was meant for cristobal.

  • Moondoggie

    Pretty good quote from Jarome Iginla on the topic of fighting in hockey….

  • cristobal


    You brought up “culture’s of violence,” not me.
    Hockey is the only sport in the world that I know of where you can assault your opponent and stay in the game. Even in Boxing Mike Tyson is dishonored, suspended, and thrown out because he chose to “bite” his opponent. That is an assault.
    You want to bash the United States and our culture but you’re unwilling to take a closer look at what a “culture of violence” results in when it involves hockey? I find that hypocritical. Personally, I find your comments very biased.
    You want to talk about chairs being thrown on basketball courts or players fighting with coaches and ask whether it’s happened in hockey. Well, it has.
    What’s the point?
    If there is a fight in Basketball or Football, the players are sent to the dressing room and after review they are usually suspended for a game or two, at least.
    You turned this into an America vs. Canada issue as well, citing our supposed proclivity for “liking violence.”
    But, in the United States, people are fed up with violence as much as we’re fed up with corporate robber barons.
    That’s why many americans don’t want fighting in hockey.
    They don’t want kids believing fighting is the way to solve differences, especially in a sporting event.
    By the way, many Canadian hockey fans feel the same way.
    On THN there have been articles by Canadian writers addressing hockey-fighting in the wake of Don Sanderson’s death.


    I don’t know how old you are, but ESPN gave hockey nearly EVERYTHING as far as the USA is concerned.
    Before ESPN and Gretzky, the NHL was a backwater sport that I had never even seen on the television. ESPN helped nurse the NHL into all the markets it currenly sits in.
    ESPN was the broadcaster of the Stanley Cup Playoffs and the Finals themselves.
    Network television didn’t care one bit then, and they are only slightly better now.
    I first saw hockey in the early 80’s when ESPN aired the Stanley Cup Playoffs and the NY Islanders won 4 Cups in a row.
    Later, I found hockey again, on ESPN, when they aired the entire playoffs and the NJ Devils nearly edged Boston in a game seven, but fell short and Boston went on to lose to Gretzky’s Oilers.
    Througout the 90’s we had hockey on ESPN and ESPN 2, not to mention a nightly show “NHL tonight.”
    Gary Bettman may have flushed his relationship with ESPN down the toilet but that was HIS bad decision and there’s nothing any of us can do about it.

    PS – I grew up in the LA area (over 30 years ago) and had barely ever heard of the Kings.
    I got into hockey despite the lack of local coverage because I was able to see the playoffs on ESPN.
    Actually, I think the LA Aztecs may have gotten more local attention than the Kings.

  • cristobal
  • cristobal

    Just read “sissyboy’s” comments and disagree with the Great-White-North bashing and kinda understand Tantrum’s comments better in light of reading the other comment.
    I don’t think we get anywhere stereotyping nations.
    That’s not what it’s about.

    The bottom line is that the NHL has great influence over the direction of hockey at every level.
    I agree that its time to take legalized fighting out of the game.
    Harsher penalties WILL NOT remove fights from the games.
    It WILL possibly decrease their frequency, but the CULTURE OF VIOLENCE must change.

    Apologies to tantrum for taking some of your comments out of context.

  • nykingfan

    What do Graham James/Mike Danton/Theo Fleury and the rest of the criminals you mentioned have anything to do with the incident with Westgarth?
    Absolutely nothing!
    It seems to me that your intention was to bring up the evils of society and somehow integrate them with the sport of Hockey and fighting.’s a lame attempt. None of the incidents occurred on the ice.

    Fighting has been a part of the sport and the “culture” of the sport since I’ve been watching it and long before then. 2 serious, but accidental incidents, should in no way reflect negatively upon the game. If someone wants to do the math of the number of fights compared to the number of serious injuries that occur during the fight, be my guest..but the answer will probably be somewhere between getting struck by lightning and dying in a plane crash. Too small a number to be significant.
    The two incidents occurred close to each other in time and that will cause an uproar from the people who despise hockey the most and understand the game the least…the media! The only time ESPN will cover hockey is during times like this…basically to call for the elimination of the sport.
    The media will jump on anything sensational and perform there job with the thought in mind…Let’s mock and criticize what we don’t understand.

    This story will blow over the same as all of the other misdeeds and miscreants you’ve mentioned.
    At the end of the day, fighting will continue to have its place in the game and the players will continue to police the game themselves. Something that they do better than anyone else.

  • Quisp

    Re “players policing themselves”:

    Players in every sport police themselves. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t refs or rules. The necessity and degree of self-policing is dictated by the rules. If you change the rules to make fighting more punishable, the players will adjust. Have you seen any bench-clearing brawls since they became punishable by extreme measures? How about third-man-in penalties? You see a couple every year, instead of many.

    The usual retort is that the game is played at high speed with lots of physical contact and when that happens tempers run high and there needs to be a way to blow off steam. What’s funny about that is that the guy blowing off steam — the enforcer — is not the same guy who needs to blow off steam. the enforcer has been sitting on the bench. He’s blowing off someone else’s steam.

    So then I’m supposed to believe that there will be more stick-infractions and dirty hits if fighting is “taken out of the game.” Of course, that’s only true if you don’t penalize stick-infractions and dirty hits.

    Reminds me of a line from “All in the Family.” Meathead (a hippie liberal, in case you don’t know) says something to Archie (a conservative bigot idiot, ibid) about how many people are killed every year by handguns. Archie’s response:

    “I suppose you’d be happier if they was thrown out of windas.”

    It’s reasonable to expect players to exert self-control. And they will do this — 99.999% of every game proves this to be true — within the guidelines established by the rules.

    I do want to underline the following: I am not especially worried about getting rid of fighting. If you ask me my opinion, I have to come out against it. But it’s not high on my list of things to change. I would first want to address illegal/dirty/intent-to-injure type hits, which is far more dangerous and has an infinitely greater likelihood of affecting players I actually care about.

  • Moondoggie

    Nykingsfan….I’ve gotta admit, I do enjoy reading your commentaries….And I’m in agreement with you 100%.

    I do agree with Quisp to a certain extent, hits like what Doughty took, then a similar hit takes place by the same player a couple of nights later which results in an injury and suspension. Unfortunately the suspension comes too late to protect the player(s) that got hurt. Those types of hits must be elimiated. In the Kings vs Bolts game, enforcers didn’t even play into the equation, they never made it out on the ice to do their job which is to protect their teamates.

    I’m one of the few that finds the fighting entertaining and I guess I’ve been watching it for so long, I do feel like it is part of the game. I can’t argue with those who feel that unnecessary injuries, even death can occur to those who drop their gloves. However, that can happen to anyone who plays hockey. And, if you look at the statistics, serious injuries that occur as a result of fightint are minimal.

    Let the players police themselves. Like Iginla said, if you take away fighting, you put potential stick infractions into play of the enforcers trying to protect their teamates. You can level fines and suspensions but ultimately the league cannot protect players who can’t defend themselves nor will it keep those safe from those who’s purpose on the ice is intent to injure.

  • 4thlinechecker

    I am not surprised….. You made a comment the other day that you didnt even know what ice hockey was in 1980… Fighting is part of our sport, and has been for a very long time. Yes it gets out of hand 2 or 3 times a season, however there is alot less fighting, line brawls, bench clearing brawls then there was 15 years ago.

    All I can say is ask the guys who have played a long time what they think. Ask Jim Fox, daryl Evans, Gordie Howe (Gordie Howe hat trick),Dave Taylor, hell even Gretz keeps a guy like Carcillo in his line up.

    If we didnt have fighting, we would probably end up having a game like tonights all star game, even though it went to a shootout, I still find it laughable.

    Hockey is a very tough sport, and always has been, that is one of the many reasons it is so special. Leave the game as it has been, its like baseball without the manager yelling at the umps, or bench clearing brawls once in a while.

  • jediknight329

    hey cristobal,

    i’m not not a “young” guy. i’ve had season tickets since the 91-92 season. espn is a joke. they used to be good. i’ll admit that. i loved nhl tonight, but they sold out for the nba several years ago and tossed the nhl into the gutter. now they squeeze melrose and barnaby into a 1 minute piece 3 times a week on espnews. pathetic. what have you done for me lately espn? nothing. you only mention the 80’s and 90’s, do you know why? because they dumped hockey in the 2000’s and replaced it with the spelling bee and paintball. are you f’ing kidding me? they still broadcast more crap to fill up their 5 f’ing channels, what a joke. its sad to say, but versus is better than espn with their hockey coverage.

  • cristobal


    I get a sense that with hockey fans I’m wasting my time trying to talk sense or reason.
    The NHL has put itself in the gutter.
    It has mismanaged the game in every aspect and its refusal to crack down on fighting in the game is one of its major errors.
    ESPN didn’t drop the NHL, Gary Bettman dropped ESPN.
    If you’re old enough, you’ll remember that ESPN has always had niche “sports” on the network – one of which was the NHL. The humble beginnings of ESPN included Lumberjack competitions, bird-calling competitions, bowling, hunting, and other activities that no more than 10% of the population take part in.
    Gary Bettman REFUSED to sign with ESPN, dropped them, and went with “Versus” because they OFFERED MORE MONEY.

    The NHL is on a path to failure. Phoenix is being propped up by the league and can’t even pay its own bills.
    The NHL abandoned decent markets in Hartford, Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Quebec in favor of Carolina, Phoenix, Dallas, and Colorado.
    They expanded into Atlanta, Nashville, Tampa, Florida, and Columbus shortly after establishing teams in San Jose and Anaheim.
    How can you even DARE to blame ESPN and be serious about it?
    The NHL also sold rights to the major networks and FOX -remember the glow puck?
    The fact is that Hockey will never get major attention because the world recognizes that Hockey is for the isolationists, the violent, and the ignorant.

    You guys want to know what Martin Brodeur committing adultery with his sister-in-law has to do with fighting in hockey; or, what Patrick Roy beating his wife and his sons assaulting opposing players (both of them), or Graham James molesting his charges…You want to know what they have to do with hockey fights?

    Then tell me what a fight in basketball, or baseball has got to do with fighting in hockey.
    In every other sport a violent fight between opposing players results in ejections and suspensions.
    In Hockey, you get to come back into the game in 5 minutes to do it again.

    Hockey and the people who manage it are morons. They’ve destroyed the “BUZZ” that enveloped hockey 15 years ago and led themselves to believe they were on the verge of making billions.

    Soccer is THE most lucrative sport on the planet and dwarfs the NFL. 3 weeks ago an estimated BILLION people watch a regular season match between Manchester United and Chelsea.
    The Highest paid soccer player in the WORLD earns an estimated $10 million dollars a year.
    The Highest paid hockey player I know of, Alex Ovechkin, earns $9.5 million a year.
    Where is that money coming from?
    Hockey is almost bankrupt, while soccer is raking in more money than god.

    Do you GET IT?
    The Kings reported EARNING less than 2 million dollars last year.
    That means that DENIS GAUTHIER is earning more per year than the KINGS.

    The funniest part of all?
    Hockey thinks it’s actually WORTH more than $11.50 per ticket.
    That is laughable.

  • Quisp

    Cristobal –

    I had a little trouble understanding your comment. So I put it in Microsoft Auto-Summerizer. It came out like this:

    ESPN didn’t drop the NHL. Gary Bettman dropped ESPN. If you’re old enough, you’ll remember that ESPN has always had niche “sports” on the network – one of which was the NHL. Hockey and the people who manage it are morons. Three weeks ago an estimated one billion people watched a regular season match between Manchester United and Chelsea.The Highest paid soccer player in the world earns an estimated $10 million dollars a year.The Highest paid hockey player I know of, Alex Ovechkin, earns $9.5 million a year. Where is that money coming from? Hockey is almost bankrupt, while soccer is raking in more money than god, and, yet, you think ESPN has f’ed hockey. Amazing.

    Submitted without comment, except to note that spell-check kept asking me if I wanted to replace “Bettman” with “Batman.”

    Yes, I do.

  • cristobal


    is it easier in paragraph form?

    I don’t think hockey fans can understand paragraphs so I speak in short concise sentences.

    Actually, I got that from Anthony.

    As an english major, I naturally lean towards the essay, but you have to cater to the audience. Ya know?

    Cheers Spock.

  • nykingfan

    I don’t even know where to begin to refute every single one of your points…other than soccer being the most popular sport in the world..true EXCEPT IN NORTH AMERICA!!!
    Strange…that’s where most of us reside…and the one thing most of us (except you) have is a love of the NHL. That’s why we’re on this blog.
    Look up what happened in the ESPN deal…they refused to guarantee the NHL any money. Versus was the only network to guarantee the owners $$. Right or wrong, the owners are in this for the $$. ESPN offered a deal that was made to be refused. I happen to think Versus coverage of hockey is excellent…
    ESPN has no room for hockey…even when they had it, college basketball always was a priority to them.
    Hockey is a sport with a passionate but small fan base. As much as we all wish it could be bigger, it won’t be. That’s fine with me. I love the game just the way it is…Fighting is a part of the game. If that bothers you, there’s always figure skating and short track speed skating to keep you interested. Or soccer for that matter. Nobody is forcing you to watch this “brutal” sport.

    I asked you what Danton and the other criminals and there behavior had to do with hockey..and not surprising, you didn’t answer the question. That’s because you were forwarding a leftist social agenda…not a hockey agenda. This is a blog for hockey and specifically the Kings…it’s not about left or right wing politics.

    You mentioned “decent” markets that hockey used to have…Hartford, Winnipeg…If that’s your definition of decent, I’d hate to think what a poor market would be. they were terrible markets. Why don’t you think Hartford has any major professional sports teams?
    You mention Minnesota…They had a terrible arena and what was worse…it was located in a God-awful location for the fans. Once they built the new arena in the proper location, they have sold out every single home game…including playoffs and exhibition games. It was all about location.
    If hockey isn’t worth the ticket prices, try explaining Minnesota’s attendance figures. I guess those people are cluelss to the violent nature of the sport…or they are just a bunch of blood-thisty hicks.

    Forget about trying to decipher the Kings books. I’ll leave that to forensic accountants. If you’re one, ok.

    This is not a personal attack…please don’t take it that way. I just think you are way off base in all of your arguments.

  • cristobal


    Sometimes I don’t respond because its pointless.
    I argued with you about Brian Boyle for ages and got nowhere.
    You have your point of view and I have mine.
    What’s the point in trying to make you understand my thinking?
    I’ve already tried to inform you about what is going on in the Sports world outside of the USA and our “franchise leagues” yet you insist you are correct while you know nothing them.

    I’ve already done the research. I know what is possible. You’re content with the status quo, but I”m telling you, its failing.

    If you think the NHL is fine, don’t worry about what I think about it.

    PS – I find it strange that nobody but myself takes umbrage with Tantrum’s comments about our country.

  • jediknight329

    nykingfan – thanks for the help, but like cristo said, he has his opinion and we have ours.

    cristobal – i was trying to discuss fighting and then you went on a rant. its sounds like you are tying to get a job with the u.n. as an ambassador.

    do you know why the highest soccer salary is only $10 million/year, because soccer is played in the poorest countries around the globe, except for maybe england who is also in a serious financial crises over the last few years. usa sports pay more because of the advertising. how about a-rod on the yanks – $270 million dollar contract. thats about the total cost of all the salaries on all of the nhl pacific division teams. baseball plays 162 games/season. hockey plays 82. how many soccer games in a season? i don’t know know, but i bet its less than 82. apples to oranges.

    and if you think i am or the rest of us are too stupid to read between your lines about “not understanding paragraphs” then my friend you can go ……..
    i’ll leave the rest out as to not offend the family audience here. does it make you feel good to try and denegrate folks for their enjoying of a sport that at times gets rough? does it make you a bigger man because you like soccer? i’ve watched plenty of soccer over the years. i see tremendous athletes working their butts off. i also see a bunch of winey littles prisses who take more dives than peter forsberg ever used to as a hockey player. give me a break.

    i do wholeheartedly agree with you about bettman. he is a tool, but the owners love him. he has made them a lot of money over the last few years. teams move because they lack community support or proper finances. i thought it was a shame that leams left quebec and winnipeg and moved south. but teams in all sports move – baseball, football, basketball. there has never been a professional sports league that has not moved from city to city. its just a reality.

    take a chill pill. if you don’t like hockey, then don’t watch it. if we are all too stupid then get off this site. doesen’t take a braniac to figure that one out.

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