NHLPA open to changing fighting rules
An interesting story just moved on the Associated Press wire about the NHL players' association being open to changing the fighting rules. Specifically, should players be required to keep helmets on, and should the ``staged'' fights be eliminated? The full story follows, after the jump...
TORONTO (AP) -- The head of the NHL Players' Association believes it is time to consider a rule mandating helmet use during fights and to examine the role of one-dimensional enforcers in the game.
While a "clear majority" of players want fighting to remain a part of hockey, Paul Kelly feels his constituency is open to restrictions on the process.
"A couple that we've talked about that ought to be looked at anyway is, do you consider a rule whereby players need to keep a helmet on during the course of a fight, and perhaps require officials to step in if a helmet comes off during a fight," Kelly said Wednesday before the Conn Smythe Celebrities Dinner and Auction.
"If it's true that when guys get hurled to the ice or tripped to the ice and bang their skull on the ice is where the real danger comes from, then maybe we can protect against that. It's certainly something worth looking at," the union chief added.
Kelly acknowledged the role fighting has in policing the tenor of play, but added that so-called "staged fights" between two players with skill sets limited to throwing punches may no longer have a place in the game. The potential damage that strong men who stand well over 6 feet on skates and weigh more than 250 pounds can inflict might now make such bouts too dangerous.
"If it's a staged fight between two superheavyweights that perhaps arranged it a day before the game, I'm not so sure those are the fights that we need to continue to have in the sport," Kelly said. "And if they're the most dangerous fights, we ought to take a good, hard look at those.
"I'm not advocating elimination of their jobs, I'm talking about the question of safety. If those guys can hold a roster spot and skate on a fourth line and play and engage in fights which arise from the emotion of the game, great. But if they're only there for one purpose, then I think that's at least one issue our competition committee will take a hard look at."
Kelly's comments came less than two weeks after NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said fighting's "rules of engagement" will be examined during a general managers meeting in March.
The fighting debate has been growing since March 2007 when league disciplinarian Colin Campbell suggested it was time to ask whether fisticuffs belonged in hockey.
He made the comment amid concern after Todd Fedoruk was taken from the ice on a stretcher after he was knocked out in a fight. The incidents have since become more worrisome.
The issue became magnified last month after Ontario senior men's league player Don Sanderson fell into a coma after striking his head on the ice during a fight and then died. A few weeks later, Garrett Klotz suffered a seizure and was taken from the ice on a stretcher after a fight in an American Hockey League game.
The Ontario Hockey League has since instituted rules to ensure players keep their helmets on during fights. The AHL said it would follow the NHL's lead.
Kelly insisted that the issue needs a thorough examination by the NHL's competition committee, and that fighting should not be eliminated in a knee-jerk reaction.
"We shouldn't allow one tragic event to dictate wholesale rule changes in our sport," he said.
Instead, Kelly argued that fights arising "out of the spontaneity of the game, the adrenaline of the game, the emotion and the need to protect a teammate or yourself from an unclean hit," were a natural part of hockey and were a required element of the sport.
He went on to say that Wayne Gretzky would have played "several hundred" fewer games in his career if he didn't have Dave Semenko and Marty McSorley as teammates.
"What would have happened is teams would have gone after him, and when you have guys in there to protect the star players, the skill players, the people fans pay good money to go watch, it deters that type of conduct, it protects those star players," Kelly said. "It actually, in many respects, reduced the amount of violence in our sport.
"Fighting isn't just there for some gratuitous reason. It's there because there's a need to self police, there's a need to protect those kinds of players in our sport. And I think that if you get rid of fighting, you're going to have some consequences that are very unfortunate."
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J.P. Hoornstra writes about NHL and IHL hockey for the Los Angeles Newspaper Group. He welcomes any and all dialogue on the finer points of hockey.
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Jill Painter joined the Daily News in 2000 and during the last eight years she's covered the Dodgers, Cal State Northridge, UCLA, Kings, golf and everything in between. Even though she's from Colorado, she still freezes in the Staples Center press box but always manages to thaw her fingers in time to make deadline. E-mail Jill at jill.painter@dailynews
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See Ya Rita.
And take your stupid minor penalties with you.
Leave fighting the hell alone.
Eliminate the instigator rule.
"Fighting isn't just there for some gratuitous reason. It's there because there's a need to self police, there's a need to protect those kinds of players in our sport. And I think that if you get rid of fighting, you're going to have some consequences that are very unfortunate."
Confirmation that the NHL officials are pretty much worthless.
If the players have to police the game, its pretty much the inmates running the asylum.
Maybe Non-fighting fans need to walk away from the game until the NHL gets real about this issue.
It's 2009 and we're sending the message that Fighting is the way to solve differences; in a SPORT no less.
I've always enjoyed sports because it allows one to be "violent" and competitive without becoming VIOLENT in the real sense of the word.
Adding rules to the "rules of engagement" is a joke.
I hope the NHL is prepared to continue posting NO PROFIT from this game.
Its just insane how stupid these people are.
who the heck is Rita?
I am in favor of eliminating the staged ritual fights. They are stupid and give hockey a wrestling-like reputation. Leave the spontaneous fights that arise from the speed, contact and emotion of the game.
Guys wouldn't be taking their helmets off before fights if they weren't required to wear visors the way they are in the minors and in juniors.
aaahhhhh...bring on the "hearts and minds" stage...
well...
several good points all-around...
bottom line is that fighting needs to be a part of the sport...
the staged fights need to go...i could understand them somewhat as carry over in a playoff series from game-to-game, but otherwise, no...they should be immediately disciplined during the regular season...
protection, though, is the issue...and that's why it needs to be in the game...
i like the helmet rule as well...i'm sure that the hands of the enforcers of the league are going to need more ice and tape if that's the case, but...a broken hand is worse than a broken skull...i think...?
seriously, it's nice to see that everybody involved is thinking safety first...maybe something good can come out of this where everyone is happy...
Fighting isn't safe?
Someone should just tell the players that, they'll probably stop.
"See Ya Rita.
And take your stupid minor penalties with you."
Huh? Who's Rita?
Rita is anthonys "funny" name for Raitis Ivanans.
How many people would love to see anthony call Raitis Rita to his face?
BRS...Anthony's a lawyer...Raitis would be a lot poorer.
I enjoy some of the "staged fights". If you don't like boxing, you're not going to enjoy hockey fights. I like seeing 2 big guys like Ivanans and Bogyman go at it mano y mano. Some people like it, some people don't.
I don't see anything wrong with mandating they keep their helmets on. The fights themselves aren't what's injuring these players, it's the fall to the ice.
Here's a link to an article from Allan Muir of Sports Illustrated on the Dennis Gauthier suspension:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/allan_muir/02/03/gauthier.suspension/index.html
Suffice it to say that Mr. Muir thought Gauthier's five game suspension was not nearly severe enough, and called it Colin Campbell's "most misguided sentence to date!"
And to think that Dean Lombardi didn't think Gauthier's check deserved a penalty, let alone a five game suspension. Wow!
Well I think there is no good rule for this, If they make it where you have to keep your helmet on you may as well just get rid of the fights all together. Think about it if a someone's helmet falls off then the refs will jump in. This happens in just about every fight.
I know it is easy for me to say KEEP THE FIGHTS but I am not the one getting my face whaled on. I just like the game the way it is and I dont want to watch baseball. I love hockey, every part of it. I hope they dont ruin it.
Actor D.B Sweeeney was on NHL Live last week and had a good idea...tear-off visors, visors that would attach by velcro and could be "torn away" before the fisticuffs take place. Of course it would work for the heat-of-the-moment fights but something to ponder nontheless.
Hockey has always been part of the game... If the NHL takes another step in the wrong direction, the real hockey fans, like myself, will not patronize it anymore. The NHL must, and I repeat, must leave fighting alone. What the hell, if you want to watch figure skating or wimpy European hockey, move to Russia...
I agree with anonymous. Fighting belongs in the sport staged or not...leave it alone the way it used to be. Eliminate the stupid instigator rule in its entirety.
Impossible to enforce. They know what is at stake.
When the guys drop the gloves they acknowledge that they may get hurt, it is a fight after all. I would like to see the cheap shots go. I have no problem if two grown men drop gloves and swing away, they know the consequences and the safety issues involved. Fighting is part of hockey and can turn the game around.
In my opinion, head shots and cheap shots are worse for this game than fighting. Let's focus on that for awhile.
Anthony, what a comedian. Fighting is, has been, and had by God better remain a part of hockey. In that same story, or perhaps it was some of tbe comments after, they made the comparison that Gretz wouldnt have lasted as long in the league as he did without Somenko and McSorley watching his back. The idea is to keep the mediocre players honest and not have them take runs at the (our) skill players. I totally agree that if the instigator rule was removed then some of these b-s head shots and cheap shots wouldn't be going on. If Komiserek (or however you spell his name) knew that Raitis was going to come after him, he probably wouldnt have gone head hunting at Anthonys favorite player. I like watching Ratis and George go at it and I love it when he comes out on top and our crowd and team get fired up. NHL needs to stop trying to change the game and let the toughest, best athletes in the world play the game they grew up playing. Go Kings.
Don Cherry has said it best... fighting opens the ice for the star players. Gretzky and his kin can't even break 120 pts in this current NHL because of the harassment from pest players. Its unfortunate that people have been seriously hurt/killed in fights, but those are accidents. Take the instigator penalty away make them wear helmets and let em fight. I am tired of guys like Avery and Claude Lemiux beating / hacking on star players. You want to open up scoring for the NHL, the net size or goalie equipment wont make a difference, only opening the ice through enforcers makes a difference.
I disagree with EAT THE RICH. Hockey refs are the best officials in all of sports (yes, even the ones that call bogus penalties on me at TSC:).
Mark my words, fighting will be completely eliminated within 5 years. Enjoy it while you have it.
Matt R - I totally support your right to disagree with me, but we repeatedly hear players, GM's, and league and union men saying the players need fighting to "police the game."
That inherently says that the officials are not able to police it.
Personally, I totally disagree with you and see THE worst officiating and least consistency in the NHL. Even the revue policy is tainted.
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the NHL is a Corporation with franchises and the bottom line is the Yankee Dollar. You just cannot get "fairness" when the money is the most important issue.
But, I hope you're right about 5 years from now.
Cheers.
I can say with 100% certainty that any inconsistency with officiating has nothing to do with corporations or money. The proof is that officiating is just as inconsistent in squirts and peewees and in exactly the same ways.
The game moves fast. Faster than any other game. Whatever the rule is for a given infraction, players will go right up to limit set by the rule, in order to gain every possible advantage. The refs can't see everything, so obviously they can't call everything. And what they do see looks different through each official's eyes, to say nothing of the way things look on the ice compared to on TV or up in the stands.
Take the Doughty "take-down" the other night. Obviously a penalty to me, 3000 miles away, watching on TV, with the benefit of replay, seen from above, etc.. The ref, on the ice, in real time, didn't see it that way. That's the way it goes.
Given the speed and fluidity of the game, and the physical demands placed on the refs simply to keep up with the play, I'm frankly surprised they're as good as they are.
Stop fighting... I want to go to the game with my kids. Even I watch the game at home, I have to change channel right away. If NHL wants to get more families to the game and fans for the future, stop it ASAP.
I always took the statement "The players policing themselves" differently. The refs are going to call penalties...they are the real police of the game. But if every time a player gave an extra hack at the whistle..especially to a "star" player and the refs call it...we'll all be looking for a new sport to watch. There are more than enough penalties called now. To call every little hack or scrum after the whistle would completely kill any flow the game might have. It would be a constant parade to the penalty box. When the players get together after the whistle and discuss the incident between themselves, that's their way of policing the game. It's taking care of the little things that could escalate into bigger things, without involving the refs or killing the flow.
On the worst officiating...There's no question, Basketball is by far the worst officiated sport. Star players don't get foul calls because the league doesn't want them kicked out of games or stuck on the bench in foul trouble. Does anyone know what traveling is these days? I think its 20 steps...It could be more.
I know he makes a lot of $$ for his league, but David Stern is the PT Barnum of sports commissioners.
Everything about his league is shady....Refs betting, foul calls, draft rigging.....Who knows what's true, but it always looks shady.
Found a post on Yahoo by "Garth the Hoser" that I wanted to add here because I think that he makes a lot of good points.
26. Posted by Garth the Hoser Thu Feb 05, 2009 16:26 EST Report Abuse
The faulty logic of fight proponents never ceases to amaze me:
1. Hockey needs fighting to attract fans. Football has no fighting. 94 million people watched the Super Bowl. Hockey has fights. You'll be lucky if a million U.S. Americans watch G7 of the SCF. No non-brain-damaged Canadian I know would stop watching hockey if they eliminate fighting.
2. Players need fighting as a release. Football features a lot harder hitting than hockey. Helmets are just as lethal as hockey sticks. No fighting. Players adjust to the rules. And refs call the rulebook. Well, in legitimate sports they call the rulebook. In the NHL, as in wrestling, the referee is often willfully blind to reality for some reason.
3. Fighting has always been part of the game's culture. So, to the world at large, was slavery, wife-beating, animal sacrifice, drunk driving, etc. Only a retarded paleo-conservative would argue from the "if it's always existed it should continue to exist" platform.
4. Fighting is necessary to take care of the cheapshotters. Actually, the rulebook is 300 pages thick with sanctions against the cheapshotters. If only the zebras would call penalties such as elbowing, boarding, charging, roughing, unsportsmanlike, butt-ending, spearing, gross, and match, instead of imagining phantomhigh-sticking, hooking, holding and interference "penalties."
Fighting is a symptom of a badly officiated game that has, since the beginning of time, left policing up to the players. Just like wrestling and the mafia.
As a result, non-hockey-diehards take one look and think, "what is a penalty and what isn't a penalty? Are they just making sh!t up as they go along? Why is Todd Bertuzzi assaulting that guy?"
A fringe sports that will remain a fringe sport as long as it tries to pander to the drunk idiots in the upper reaches of MSG or the goombas who paint their hairy chests with NJ or who think a Rangers-Flyers tilt with 346 PMs is an "awesome division rivalry game."
Here's the link to the page:
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Another-old-goon-supports-fighting-ban-in-NHL?urn=nhl,139223&cp=2#comments
Lose the fighting. I can't find a reason to explain to my kids why they should be able to beat the snot out of each other and they can't at school.
Fighting isn't part of 'sport'. Play the game. I play, I know - there's times when I'd like nothing more than to whack the guy who just corkscrewed me but it's called restraint. The peeps who want fighting are the same who want other bloodsport. Rome is burning....