Postgame notes/quotes (2/12)

Gee I guess special teams ARE important. who knew?

see what happens when we take derek armstrong out of the lineup!

Freaking Kiprusoff was excellent tonight. The Kings dominated the game, but they just couldn't get the puck in the net. This is a tough loss, but the Kings were in this game the whole way.

If we play as well as we did tonight the rest of the way we make the playoffs, easily

this game was ridiculously frustrating to watch. the kids gave a great effort, but nothing to show for it.

I liked the way the Kings played tonight. Even though they dominated and lost, I like the way they are playing with confidence. It's only one game but who would've thought that the Kings would be in this position this late in the season. Love the way everyone is playing.

GO KINGS GO!!!

Special teams was the difference in this game.
I thought we played well and fought hard for 60 minutes. Kiprusoff was great, but we didn't make life all that difficult for him. No traffic in front of the net at all.
Its hard to get on them for a game like this. Being shutout for the 6th time at home this season and 8th overall is not good, but the effort was certainly there.
Boy, this makes tomorrow's game a huge one.

One thing I've noticed on the PP...especially the 5 on 3's...we move the puck as slow as any team I've ever seen. It always looks like we're looking for the perfect pass or shot. Quick tape to tape passes can open up even more room. I never see them doing that. They make life easy for the PK guys by never forcing them to move around. I never see them work the middle...only the perimeter. It cost us dearly last night. Shame on us for not converting with 2 man advantage for 1:55.
I don't know where they are as far as 5 on 3 % as compared to the rest of the league, but it would be interesting to see.

nykingsfan: I've noticed that too, so I guess I'm not the only one. Not a whole lot of creativity with those 5 on 3's...everyone standing around like pylons. You'd thing that means that the goaltender doesn't need to think or react as much as if these guys were moving their feet.

Maybe if the home crowd didn't boo them when they're struggling on the powerplay...

There's been a lot of requests that the Kings get themselves a "snipper". I don't know, maybe what they need is a creative passer. How many Kings forwards would you, anyone out there, consider to be good passers, let alone creative passers? Not Brown, sorry but he's not; Sulli can't pass; nor are Calder and Zeus playmakers; that's 4 of the top 6 who for sure are not passers. Frolov doesn't seem to have the vision, he's a puck-controller, and basically relies on futile wrap-arounds or passes to the point. In the open ice Kopi is a good passer, but on the pp and set-up offense he's pretty stagnant and unimaginative.
Moller's a shooter. Ivanans is a nothing. Army's a grinder. Richardson and Stoll, pretty much the same players, aren't set-up guys. Personally, I think Simmonds could be a decent passer, you can see that he looks for it, but they're so busy trying to make him the next Handzeus that this aspect of his development is being de-emphasized. (I think that the same goes for Boyle.) Who am I missing? Zeiler? Harrold? Enough said.

So how much good could a snipper do without consistent passing? Who's gonna get him the puck?

nykingfan...In regards to the PP, what I noticed was that the Kings didn't make the simple passes last night. They were trying to force the pass into high traffic areas and to the credit of the Flames, they recognized this and played with a very high pressure PK. From a coaching angle, Keenan nailed it last night. Also, I was at the game and the ice looked especially bad. the puck was bouncing around like crazy. It made it awfully hard for the points to pinch on the blueline. Not an excuse, but definitely a factor.

But in the end its just one loss against a very hot goaltender. If we need to nit pick...the PP was the obvious difference. Other than that, its not worth much thought. On to the next...

If they had to lose to Calgary, I'm glad Cammalleri was the one to score the game winner.

NYKINGSFAN has it right on.
You must have someone in and out in front of the crease on 5 on 3. Skate back and forth. They had no movement on 5 on 3....there is no excuse not to score on those...especially when you are given 2! Coaches need to work on movement on the PP. Otherwise...we looked pretty good after that hard travel back from the road....grrrrrrr....

I'll be honest I am happy how well we have done this year. Huge improvement over last year. Losing this game isn't all bad considering who was in net for the Flames. That guy is awesome! Good effort!

Give one-knee-slapper some credit. He's having a fine season for the flamers. It's NEXT season they should be worried about.....

Quote from Cammy after the game:
''Todd made a pretty exceptional pass. He put the puck on his backhand and then made a saucer pass that landed pretty much on my tape and I just had to put it in,'' said Cammalleri, who was roundly booed by fans who saw him play his first five seasons in Los Angeles.

''I think people in L.A. don't understand the fact that I got traded,'' Cammalleri said. ''I didn't leave. There is a difference.''

I never complain about fans at a game, but I thought the booing was totally un-called for.
This is not the same situation as Blake. Blake chose on his own to leave LA on several occasions. Go ahead and boo him if you wish.
Cammy never did or said anything bad about playing for the Kings. He feels he's worth X dollars, DL disagreed with that amount and traded him before he became UFA.
It really showed a lack of class on the fans part. Just because he's an ex-King shouldn't make him hated. I'm not saying cheer the goal, but to boo the guy when he touched the puck? Not good at all.
Who knows what the future holds, but that sure wouldn't help if we were thinking about bringing him back.

Has anyone else noticed we are bit more respected now? IE people used to put in the back up goalie when they used to play us?

Bring Back....

Solid points. However, Kopi can pass from anywhere. Check out his stats. Mucho assists.

But, overall you are right, what about when he is not on the ice, we need more. thats why I've been a strong advocate for a superstar player. I feel we need the kind of player that can post 100 points a season. 40 goals 60 assists. A balanced threat that leaves Kopi to do his job without being the focus of the opposing PK. In a perfect world, I'd say Malkin and Datsyuk are shinning examples. In the real world, I'd say Kovalchuk is the best available asset (although Atlanta GM Don Waddell insists he's not for sale). He will be a free agent in 2011, so whatever they want to think in ATL, he will be for sale soon if not this year.

Now with Boyle...I gotta disagree, he hasn't shown any passing ability. None. I love the idea of a Lindros style player, but he has a long way to go. The good news is, we don't need him right now. Zeus has Boyle's projected position handled for the next 2 years. Let him grow without pressuring him in. Simmonds, I don't know if he is being considered for a top 6 role, but he needs to shoot more than he does. I'd say his passing game is there, but he could be scoring more when he chooses to release the puck more often. If there is a guy within the organization who might be able to be a great set up man, its Moller. I think we all know that, but its a matter of getting some experience before he fills that spot. Right now I think he's being told to shoot like crazy.

All together, great post. I agree with the prinicple of what you are saying.

I think everyone is giving Kip to much credit for the win.He saw all the shots except for maybe the tip by Fro.The Kings need to get more traffic in front of the goalies(every game).We did well on the road,because players like Zues were causing havok in front of them.

i didn't think Cammi was boo'd all that bad. in fact, i expected it would be worse.

i'm not a Cammi fan, never was. as i say this i never felt inclined to boo him either.

i was bummed that he was the winning goal scorer if for no other reason that it always seems to hurt a little more when an 'ex' scores on you. it also sucked that it was the lame one kneed 'flamingo' [anthony's name for it???] shot... oh and that he's #4 in the league in scoring.

i did however, enjoy watching him get knocked off the puck easily... because after all, that's the Cammi i love and remember.

good game boys... too bad it didn't result in a double-u

nykingfan,

I totally agree with you in regards to the so-called fans and booing. Frankly, I'm not a bit surprised. There are always fans who are overly emotional and even immature and it showed last night. Personally, I was sad for Cammy and embarrassed as a kings fan. I almost wanted to cheer everytime Cammy touched the puck to let him know that not all kings fans are ignorant and that we understand why he was traded. Unfortunately, that's just something we have to deal with.

Other than that, can anyone tell me why Raitis got the start on the Stoll/Brownie line and not Calder for the first half of the game?

It's so frustrating, you have a very hot line in Calder/Stoll/Brownie and a winning streak to go along with it and TM opens the game with Raitis in lieu of Calder.

Yeah, kings played well but I just find moves like that by TM just a bit annoying.

Dude,

The Kaiser premenante ad has to go!! it keeps showing up even after i X it out. Its blocking my reading. God damn this is pissing me off!!

Re Cammy -

I'm not anti-#13, and I'm not into the booing thing, but it's also not a case of Kings fans "not understanding that [he] got traded." Cammy got traded because he priced himself out of town. Blake did a version of the same thing in '01. In Cammy's case, it wasn't as negative as the Blake situation, but still: he went to arbitration and lost and made no secret of his desire for $$ over loyalty or team or whatever you want to call it. And now, a couple of years later, and a year after he was traded to Calgary, and made several not very nice comments about the lack of a "winning attitude" in LA, Calgary is facing the same exact problem with Cammy that LA did. People are writing articles saying his number should not be "13" but "$$". Exactly. So for him to say he got traded, he didn't want to leave, is disingenuous. Players do make decisions to take less money to stay with a team. It happens and it happens more frequently every year. The cap will make it happen even more. Cammy is not only all about the $$, but he's famously all about the $$.

Possibly this is why he was getting booed. Just a thought.

Otherwise, why didn't people boo Lubo? I think the people who are booing are a lot more discriminating than Cammy gives them credit for.

Calgary will either pay him and dismantle their team in order to make that affordable, or they won't and he'll move on. I'm thrilled that he's not still here.

I was sitting behind Kiprusoff for 2 periods and I never saw
the Kings get any kind of traffic in front. You can take shots
from the outside all night and if he sees it he's going to stop
it...The Kings seemed to be lulled into playing Calgary's game.
They didn't have to work that hard for this victory.

The kings absolutely dominated that game. They looked better in that loss than they have on most of their wins. Kopi splitting defenders the whole team checking and holding it in the zone over and over. It was great!
Accept that part about the puck going in the net. Bummer.

The power play is a little too predictable. The boys might think about closing that umbrella a little on the 5 on 3. Skate toward the net and attack dont just pass it around up top till someone decides to stop tee it up and crack it wide.(kinda sorta kidding)

Still a great effort by the whole team, Cant wait till tomorrow!

The Kaiser/Permamnente pop up is killing me.

Quisp,

I think you got half of the story right in regards to Cammy. Although, you're accurate in Cammy's agent asking for more than he's worth, you fail to mention that DL made a ridiculous offer of ($1.7 mil). All Cammy's agent did was to counter a very low offer with a very high offer ($6 mil) hoping that they would settle for something in between. So I ask, why is it ok for DL to make a ridiculous offer but not for Cammy's agent for doing the same? All you ever hear is how Cammy asked for so much money and how greedy he is but no one ever mentions how low DL's offer was.

All I'm saying is when you hear something negative about Cammy or anyone else for that matter, just know that there are two sides to the story.

Your best shooters should be on the ice for a 5 on 3.All 5 should be forwards,Stoll, Sully on the points,Brown in front,Fro and Kopi on the side boards.All our defence have a hard time deciding and of course handling the puck and should not be used in what should be a shooting gallery. 5 on 4 is another situation all together because of short handed attempts against.

Jayrew-good call about that ad. I just launched their damn add and left it up in another window.

Anyway, Stoll is right about his comments. This was a game of the trenches. We dominated, but not where it needed to take place. More bodies in front of Kipper as shots are coming through. See Tomas Holmstrom for further instructions.

Gotta give Kipper the credit, though. The Flames D just kept the Kings in the corners all night. When we managed to get out in front, they stepped up to us.

HUGE effort, though. If the Kings play this well against the Oilers, hahaha...forget about it.

sense13 -

I assume the numbers you're quoting (1.6MM, 6.0MM) are the numbers from the arbitration. What I would assume about arbitration itself is that management would come in low and the player would come in high and they would meet in the middle. I don't know what numbers were discussed before they ever got to arbitration, though, and of course it is the player's right to seek arbitration.

It is of course true that there are two sides to every story. But the facts are not really in contention in this particular story.

The facts are:

1) Cammy thought he should be paid more than DL was willing to pay him.
2) Rather than accept DL's offer, he opted for arbitration.
3) The arbiter made his decision, which was a contract substantially less than what Cammy asked for, and (according to your numbers) substantially more than what DL asked for.
4) DL believed that Cammy was going to seek more than DL could afford to pay him in the summer of 2009 and traded him.
5) Cammy is now in fact seeking more than DL would have paid him, and in fact more than Calgary is capable of paying him.
6) Calgary now has a problem which DL doesn't have.

As many sides to this story as there might be, no one on any side thinks Cammy is a team guy who doesn't care about the money, doesn't put money first, doesn't put himself first (whatever version of that cliche you prefer). And no one thinks Cammy is a system guy who can play solid defense. He's a talented scorer who can be had for a price.

Catcherman,

re: "Maybe if the home crowd didn't boo them when they're struggling on the powerplay..."

The reason why they (the Kings) were getting booed is because this team needs to score on those types of opportunities. They don't come that often and if this team really wants to make to playoffs they have to capitalize on them when they do. The LA fans are a lot more forgiving than most other hockey fans in that type of situation.

Me,

re: "If they had to lose to Calgary, I'm glad Cammalleri was the one to score the game winner."

With all do respect, are you kidding me! All I kept thinking yesterday was that I hope Cammi doesn't score on us. That fact that it was the game-winner makes it sting that much more. I can't stand the greedy SOB and his stupid one-knee shot, ugh!

I don't see how the negotiations should have any impact with the fans in the Cammy situation.
There's nothing wrong with a player asking for as much as he can possibly get. There's also nothing wrong with DL trying to get Cammy signed to as little as possible.
Unless I've been sleeping for quite a while, that's the art of negotiating.
If DL felt that even moving to the middle with Cammy was going to hurt us cap-wise, then he was smart to get something for him.

Think about our own jobs. Show me a company that's not trying to low ball you in this day and age?
We all have the opportunity to go out and find what our true value is on the open market. I don't consider that being dis-loyal.
Same as your company letting you go because they can bring in someone cheaper and improve their bottom line. To me loyalty only goes as far as doing what you're paid to do. The company loyalty is paying me for the job you hired me to do.
It's the same in the world of sports. The only true loyalty is the fans to the team...and the team to the fans. The players are all intechangeable parts. It's the sweater we root for.

Bring back the Sheild...

Excellent point about a passer/playmaker. I've been calling for a sniper all season, but I had not thought of it that way.

To be honest, I wonder if we need both?

6) Calgary now has a problem which DL doesn't have.

I would hardly call trading a commodity like Cammy a problem. Did you ever think what the flames could get back in return especially if Cammy agrees to a new contract as part of the trade agreement. I'm pretty sure, the flames will get lot more in return than what they gave up to get Cammy imo.

no one on any side thinks Cammy is a team guy who doesn't care about the money, doesn't put money first, doesn't put himself first (whatever version of that cliche you prefer). And no one thinks Cammy is a system guy who can play solid defense. He's a talented scorer who can be had for a price

Not quite sure where you're hearing or reading these comments but I hear just as much Cammy supporters who actually understand the business side of hockey and don't blame Cammy at all.

And where do you get this "no one on any side thinks Cammy is a team guy" nonsense. Cammy was a very good lockerroom guy. He was one of the leaders of the team while he was here. Let's not forget that Cammy missed a good part of the season with us last year because he was sticking up for his teammate to a much bigger opponent.

I know you said you didn't hate Cammy but boy, I'd hate to think what spews out of your mouth if you ACTUALLY did hate him.

"Cammy never did or said anything bad about playing for the Kings. He feels he's worth X dollars, DL disagreed with that amount and traded him before he became UFA. "

the guy scored what, half a dozen goals after the all-star break last year? F CAMMI

We was "Kipper'd"! At least the loss was against a team at the top ,that will get in regardless.We will definately need a big nod from the hockey gods in our battle of the bottom.If the boys stay the course and give the same effort we can do it.More traffic and multi-efforts needed going to the net.STEP UP!

great points Quisp, you nailed it. I also agree with the guy who said not enough traffic in front. hopefully the coaches are demonstrating this in the video room. it's especially vital on the PP as the Kings demonstrated on the last trip. now let's beat Edmonton

Kings looked great! The Flames got lucky with that first period goal! Once the Kings get through with the flu that has taken over the team in the last week which caused Terry Murray to call off practice on Wednesday the offense will be more dynamic especially on the rebounds! kings are playoff bound!

Actually, Sense13...when speaking with a handfull of the Kings at the tip-a-king last year (I won't say who they were for obvious reasons)...Cammy was NOT a popular guy on the team. Was seen as extremely selfish.

I have no idea how he is seen by his teammates in Calgary, and frankly, I don't really care.

"the guy scored what, half a dozen goals after the all-star break last year? F CAMMI"

So for that he gets booed when he touches the puck?
Look, I really don't care about the guy anymore...he's no longer a King, but lets not have people or players thinking that Kings fans are low class and will boo just because the guy left or was traded.

I don't think booing Cammi had anything to do with the contract negotiation at all, at least it doesn't for me. It's not that you leave a team, that happens all too often in the cap era, it's how you leave the team. Lubo was cheered when he came back, Matti Norstrom was cheered when he came back, Luc Robitaille was cheered when he came back, BOTH TIMES!!

Cammi didn't get what he wanted and he quit on the team. I'm not sure how accurate Brianguy's stat of 6 goals after the All-Star game is, but I know it was in that ballpark.

He quit on the team. He gets booed! And I second Brianguy's F CAMMI!!

TO ALL OF THE LOS ANGELES KINGS
THANK YOU FOR JUST AN OUTSTANDING EFFORT IN LAST NIGHT'S GAME AGAINST THE CALGARY FLAMES. WIN OR LOSE, THIS IS THE TYPE OF EFFORT I REALLY APPRECIATE.

AGAIN THANK YOU GUYS, IT WAS A GREAT GAME.

Sitting behind the goal - Calgary made 4 or 5 exceptional plays on the puck in the crease to deprive us of goals- either lifting sticks or sweeping pucks away - our 5on3 is horrific for this point in the season- our 2nd one had 44 sec of outside the zone on clears by cgy - that is not good- no shame in getting beat by the leading wins goalie in the league - it's not like we got shutout by a stiff- Edmtn is huge tomorrow - this is the team we have to beat we're battling these guys for the last 2 spots lets have HUGE CROWD-

SENSE 13 your nickname says it all, no matter what would be said about Cammy if it isn't flowery you're going to fight it. Try waking up and look back at how he played for the Kings AFTER abitration..... He SUCKED and was TOTALLY SELFISH. He wasn't even a team player at Michigan and he never will be.

Like it or not, Cammy's about a 30+ goal scorer a season. Imagine how much better we'd be if he was on the team. Yeah last season he didn't do so hot, but he had just come off an injury. Selfish? don't forget how he was injured, defending Kopi, which no other king stepped up and did.

As far as the money goes, isn't it usually the agent whom presses the players to ask for more?

Just a thought.

There were several times during Cammi's tenure in the Kings' organization when he really struck me as not being much of a team player.

Whether it was just the way he worded things and seemed to slack off on the ice at various times, or part of a bigger picture, I don't know. Not going to pin it on his agent, though. Cammi's no fool, and his agent represents his wishes. He also had the opportunity to sign a longer term contract with the Kings prior to that last year though, and didn't want to do it.

I'm not one of those that went out of his way to boo Modry when he played for us, nor pretty much any ex-King that returns to Staples, but hell, I reserve an exception for Blake and Cammi.

Anonymous -

do you really think he would fit in this defense first system... really?

i agree we could use a 30 goal scorer... but i don't think Cammi is my choice.

Why would the Flames players think anything negative about Cammy when those players are guys like Bertuzzi and Phaneuf? The Flames are as dirty and as physical as the '70s Flyers. The league could change their name to the Calgary Thugs and they'd be in their right to.

Regardless of how we feel about Cammy, there's no denying he doesn't help any roster he's put on, including ours, even if he is an ass or not.

Your kidding yourself if you think Cammi would be near 30 goals on our team now.In our new defense first system, Cammi would be lucky to have half the goals he has now. His game would suffer more than anyone on the team.

jack handy-

From the way they played, I don't think that any of our players last year would have fit into our defense system. Whatever TM did to them though sure did turn that around.

Whatever the case, Cammy did not deserve to get booed. He did his best for us when we were at our worst.

I'd like to see an actual quote from a player talking badly about Cammy.

28 KINGS-

Yeah, It sure looks like Fro and Brown don't have the makings to have a 30 goal season either do they?

nykingsfan, re cammy:

"Think about our own jobs...We all have the opportunity to go out and find what our true value is on the open market."

Yes, now let's follow through on that analogy. I applaud your right to get paid as much as you can. One of the reasons I am free to do that is I don't know what your job is and so I don't (or don't know that I) give a s*** about the product or service you produce/provide/etc..

So let's say, hypothetically, you are a cable company executive. And I am a customer of your company. And you insist on an executive bonus of x millions of dollars. And my cable bill keeps going up, and my cable service keeps getting worse. Suddenly, I have an interest in your salary and your ideas about what you are entitled to. I am also entitled to think you're not entitled to your compensation, haven't earned your paycheck, etc..

I could switch to satellite. In the sports version of the analogy, I won't switch. I will stick with my team. And, by the way, as a customer/fan, I was here first. In fact, in the case of Cammy, I was a fan before he was even born. So my sense of entitlement to an opinion about how his behavior affects my interests is magnified accordingly.

Or, another hypothetical: lets just say that the amount of your salary directly affects the product's ability to be any good at all. Let's say that there is a good reason to believe that the more the company pays you, the worse the product will be. What do I, the consumer, care about? I care only about the product. Not only do I not care about you at all, but I don't like you, because your insistence on higher pay is actually hurting the product, by definition.

As you yourself say, in sports, the loyalty is to the team. The team is the product. All I care about is the team. So, in that sense, no I don't really care about Cammy's right to seek higher compensation. He has that right. But then fans have the right to not like it, and to see it as destructive to their interests. Which of course it is.

sense13, re "but I hear just as much Cammy supporters who actually understand the business side of hockey and don't blame Cammy at all"

I understand the business side of hockey. I don't "blame" Cammy. I just don't especially like him and I'm glad to be free of the headache.

"And where do you get this 'no one on any side thinks Cammy is a team guy' nonsense."

Okay, I take it back. Apparently some people think he's a team guy. It's not really nonsense though. If he was a team guy, he wouldn't be taking the team to arbitration, forcing a trade and bad-mouthing the team as soon as he leaves, chatting up the idea of loyalty to his new sweater, but just as quickly being coy about his intentions to stay as far as it affects the amount he gets paid, and putting them (the new team) in a position of having to decide whether to get rid of him before he completely f***s them over, all of which is played out in the national press. But hey, that's just my interpretation apparently.

Chris in Torrence, re "It's not that you leave a team, that happens all too often in the cap era, it's how you leave the team."

Exactly.

Ersberg-

"Regardless of how we feel about Cammy, there's no denying he doesn't help any roster he's put on, including ours, even if he is an ass or not."

really? that's why he's Calgary's #1 goal scorer, with 29 goals? The next closest flame is Iginla with 20 goals.

Yeah, he totally doesn't help any roster.

If he was a team guy, he wouldn't be taking the team to arbitration

So your entire argument is that ANY player that takes his team to an arbitration is not a team guy. Is that your argument? So, basically, no matter how DL tries to screw you over with an outrageous contract, anyone who doesn't agree to his terms and opts for arbitration is not a team guy. Got it.

forcing a trade and bad-mouthing the team as soon as he leaves

You see, here you go again. You ONLY blame Cammy and you don't even hesitate to place blame on DL. Do you not hear yourself? Just how did Cammy force DL to trade him? Isn't it the fault of both DL and Cammy that they weren't able to come to an agreement?

Believe me, I love DL and what he's done for our kings but I'm capable of being objective here whereas, you are all about bad-mouthing Cammy.

Like I said, you're DEFINITELY a Cammy-hater.

Cammi forced DL to trade him by quitting on the team.

Sense13 -

"So your entire argument is that ANY player that takes his team to an arbitration is not a team guy. Is that your argument?

No. That's you badly paraphrasing my argument and then debunking yourself. But let's just go back to what I said:

Me [cut and paste from above]: "If he was a team guy, he wouldn't be taking the team to arbitration, forcing a trade and bad-mouthing the team as soon as he leaves, chatting up the idea of loyalty to his new sweater, but just as quickly being coy about his intentions to stay as far as it affects the amount he gets paid, and putting them (the new team) in a position of having to decide whether to get rid of him before he completely f***s them over, all of which is played out in the national press."

You: "So your entire argument is that ANY player that takes his team to an arbitration is not a team guy."

Me: How can it be my entire argument when you deleted 90% of my argument?

You: "So, basically, no matter how DL tries to screw you over with an outrageous contract, anyone who doesn't agree to his terms and opts for arbitration is not a team guy."

Me: Anyone who wants more money than the team can pay him without dismantling the team is not a team guy.

You: "You ONLY blame Cammy and you don't even hesitate to place blame on DL. Do you not hear yourself? Just how did Cammy force DL to trade him?"

I don't blame DL because I credit DL for trading him. The alternative would have been to sign him at the price Cammy wanted, and then pay POS more, and Kopitar more, and Brown more, and Frolov more, and suddenly...whoops, no team. The trade was forced because Cammy laid his cards on the table. It was clear, just as it is now clear to Calgary, that Cammy intends to test free-agency. As is his right. Doesn't make him a team guy though.

You: "Isn't it the fault of both DL and Cammy that they weren't able to come to an agreement?"

Me: Of course. But since I am only interested in how the team does, I don't blame DL for taking the same action I would have taken under the circumstances. You see, I did not want Cammy to be signed at 5 or 6 million, or more. Because I can add.

You: "Believe me, I love DL and what he's done for our kings but I'm capable of being objective here..."

Me: Yes, but see "I can add" above. You can't love what he's done for "our Kings" and then think it would have been good to sign Cammy at a price that would have required the dismantling of the team.

You: "...whereas, you are all about bad-mouthing Cammy. Like I said, you're DEFINITELY a Cammy-hater."

Yes, I am all about bad-mouthing Cammy. In fact, I am so much all about bad-mouthing Cammy that I have bothered to bad-mouth him exactly -- never. My Cammy hate is so intense and extreme that barely a comment goes by without me digressing into Cammy hate, except of course for the fact that this never happens. I have nothing bad to say about Cammy, other than:

He wanted to get paid more than the Kings could afford to pay him. If they had paid him accordingly, it would have been bad for the team. Now he's in Calgary, where Calgary can't afford to pay him what he wants to get paid. Also, he said some -- let's just say -- not classy things when he got to Calgary and that always bothers me...not that it's unusual for players to talk up their new team and talk down their old team ... I just think it's transparent and kind of lame. But it doesn't bother me that much in the scheme of things.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go stick pins in my Cammy doll.

Cammy was no locker room leader. In fact, and I know this for a fact, that last year after a big win and everyone was celebrating, he was in the locker room pouting because he wasn't one of the scorers. This team will be more successful without him and when he wears out his welcome in Calgary, they'll kick his ass to the curb.

28 Kings-

Actually, he's a sniper, so he's EXACTLY what we need, minus his attitude. Calgary is an extremely defensive unit, as are we. I think Cammy would actually score more with us, because of our youth.

Quisp-

Lubo bad mouthed the organization when he left, are you going to boo him too?

From what I read, Lubo really got the short end of the stick, and I agree with him being upset about how it all went down.

I can understand Cammy's frustration after seeing players like Briere getting a ridiculously high contract, when Cammy's stats we're similar that year.

I can't remember how many times on Kings Live that I would see Cammy hanging out long after that he had to, and chatting with the FSN guys and seeming pretty happy to be on the kings.

My biggest problem with Kings fans is how quickly they are to throw stones at someone just because they might not be fairing to well.

Cammy is a sniper, if we was on the team i bet we would be in the playoffs with the new system that TM has set up for everyone. You can't just jump to judge someone when they've just come back from an injury and say that they've given up on the team. Look at Zeus between last season and this season...It's totally night and day.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Just remember that he was traded. Unlike other players who got better offers and left.

Anonymous-I meant he DOES help any team, not doesn't.

Try to elect into reading a statment prior to quoting one. When I stated: .."even if he is an ass or not"...should have been a fairly clear indicator I meant the reverse.

Yes, he's helped Flames, of course. Numbers don't lie.
We are different team this year. I would bet top dollar he'd do very well on this team, if he could stick with our program.

My anon post above.

Anon/Ersberg -

If you read what I wrote, I said I wasn't into the booing thing. I'm not booing Cammy. I just don't especially like him. Most of what you're addressing in your comment is stuff I didn't say (for example, I never said anything about how well he would or would not be doing as a King this year, nor anything about whether or not he played well last year...).

Really, it would be better if people would just stick to what someone says or writes, rather than reading into it all sorts of b.s. that's just not there. For the last time:

Cammy wanted more money than the Kings were willing to pay. So he got traded. Now he's somewhere else, where he still wants more money than his current team is able to pay. His reputation is not that of a "team guy." Debate that any way you want to. But there's no question that paying him what he thinks he deserves would have necessitated dismantling the team.

Okay?

"If he was a team guy, he wouldn't be taking the team to arbitration, forcing a trade and bad-mouthing the team as soon as he leaves,

Ok, so taking a team to an arbitration and forcing a trade equates to a bad teammate? Again, my argument with this statement is that any player taking his team to an arbitration is a bad teammate, that is what you're saying correct?

And just how did Cammy force a trade? Why does he have to factor in the team salary cap when he's negotiating. I don't think that's his responsiblility. If anything, DL should have had plenty of cap space created to sign the players he wanted. So, if DL didn't create enough cap space, then it was HE that FORCED Cammy for a trade.

And if Cammy did badmouth his former team after he left, then he is no longer considered a teammate and thus wouldn't fall under the category of a "bad teammate".

I think you're basing what you think Cammy's fair value is by Brownie's contract. Unfortunately, that is very unfair. Any hockey fan or hockey player knows that Brownie got jipped. But hey, that's ok for Brownie because he took one for the team and I applaude Brownie for that. However, that doesn't mean that everyone needs to follow Brownie lead does it?

IMO, DL had in mind what he was going to pay Brownie when he was negotiating with Cammy and DL wasn't going to pay Cammy more than what he was willing to pay for Brownie.

Anyone who wants more money than the team can pay him without dismantling the team is not a team guy.

Again, that is fault of DL for not having enough cap space available. It's not Cammy's fault for signing guys like Willsie, Thornton (NTC), Handzus (NTC), Cloutier (an extension prior to playing a single game in a kings uniform), those are all DL's fault.

I don't think you need to bad-mouth or boo Cammy to be a Cammy-hater. I think your distorted view speaks loud and clear.

Sense13 -

At least I say what I think and why I think it. if it bothers you that I don't especially like Cammy, and feel you have to exaggerate that to "Cammy hater," fine. It's absurd, but whatever. It's not unusual for people on the losing end of a debate to exaggerate everyone's point of view to the point of ridiculousness and then mock the exaggeration which they themselves pulled out of their own *ss.

Quisp-

My reply was for "anonymous" regarding my type-o. If you don't like Cammy, well, you don't like him.

What I was pointing out to our Anonymous friend up above, is the fact he could and would help any time he's on, if he puts in the effort. He didn't put in a lot of effort for us after returning from his injury.

Personally, I think he's an ass, but if he gave it 100% every shift, I'd take him. I think we should pursue other avenues, though. I.e Kovy, Heatley, etc.

Quisp,

Why won't you answer my question?

If a player takes his team to arbitration, that player is not a team player correct? That is part of the common denomiator that makes for a bad teammmate right?

Ersberg -

Sorry. I became confused.

Sense13 -

I'll answer it for you again, using some other words. It's not necessary and it's not sufficient. Beyond that, as a lawyer would say, this has been "asked and answered." Move on.

Alright dude, I'll let you do your political dance around it. lol

sense13, re "political dance":

I'm not being evasive. I'm just trying to avoid retyping what I've already typed several times. It's not arbitration, per se. It's the fact that Cammy is a broken record, the common theme being $$ over sticking with his team, no matter which team one happens to be talking about, that makes me think he's not a team guy. As far as the revealing, "I don't think it's his responsibility ... to factor in the team's salary cap when he's negotiating"...

...I say, no, you wouldn't do that...

...unless you were a "team guy." That is, of course, exactly the kind of thing a "team guy" would do [see Zetterberg and Brown, for examples of this].

The last bit about bad-mouthing team A doesn't make him a bad teammate because he was already on team B, that's pretty funny.