Final: Nashville 4, Kings 3 OT

The Predators’ Steve Sullivan scored a power play goal in overtime to beat the Kings, who were 2-3-1 on the roadtrip. Quick made 24 saves but allowed all four goals. The Kings were 0 for 2 on the power play.

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  • sign Jay Bouwmeester this offseason

    the name says it all

  • Dom

    Technically it’s not 2-4, we’re looking at a 2-3-1 road trip here, Jill.

    Either way, Play-offs are not feasible this year. But the Kings have tons of cap space and hopefully we will get surprised during the summer break….. However, I still think the Season was a success. The youngest team in the NHL barely missed the post-season and I like what the future (can) hold for this team.

  • Quisp

    We do not have tons of cap space. This year we had tons of cap space. Next year, the Kopitar contract and the Greene contract will kick in, Williams gets paid more than POS, we will likely sign JJ for around $3MM, and Purcell to a slight raise. Letting Calder, Gauthier and Armstrong go, buying out Preissing, we will have a cap hit of $44.688MM with four roster spots to fill (2 forwards and 2 defensemen). Assume that one of the D is a prospect (one of Hickey or Voynov, for example, or maybe Drewiske). If it’s Drewiske, he would be a cap hit of .525. If it’s Hickey, assume a Doughty-minus contract, cap hit plus bonus cushion of around $2.5MM (approx.). If it’s Voynov, he gets probably somewhere around .700, to pull a pretty reasonable number out of the air. I would say that DL has to leave room for Hickey to make the team in the fall. He can’t go into camp with a cap figure such that if Hickey makes it he has to trade someone away to stay under the cap. So I think we have to plug in the Hickey number. For the other D, I would assume it’s either a prospect or a cheap UFA (like SOD was this year). I’m going to guess it’s a UFA at what SOD got last year: $1.25MM. So that’s an additional $3.75MM. But could be done with Voynov and Drewiske (no UFA veteran, no Hickey) for 1.25ish (a savings of $2.5MM).

    Total is now at $48.43MM. And we have two forwards to sign. More than two if we’re getting rid of Zeiler or Ivanans. Since both those guys are affordable, I’m going to assume that they either stick around (please, no) or are replaced by like-priced players (e.g. Clune, Cliche). So, for the sake of cap estimates, we’ll leave them alone. As for the two spots to fill, I’m going to say one goes to a prospect. I pick Trevor Lewis. Could be Boyle. Doesn’t matter. The cap hit would be .855 for Lewis. Will Boyle re-sign and get a raise? He’s at .835 now. I don’t see him getting more than $1MM. So let’s be conservative, and call it .855 (the Lewis figure).

    Now we’re up to $49.293MM. And we have one forward left to sign.

    If the last spot is a prospect, too, then the cap hit will be at almost exactly $50MM.

    But if it’s a UFA? Hossa? How much? $8MM? Okay, now we’re over the cap by about a half-million. Maybe you get Hossa for a little less than 8MM (doubt it though), or maybe we go with a cheaper defense (no Hickey, no UFA d, etc.). Or maybe we shed some salary somewhere else. But where? Who are you going to deal? Handzus, Frolov, for picks? For a cheaper forward and a prospect? That could happen, I guess. Maybe Johnson has to take less than $3MM, maybe $2.75MM.

    The point is, “tons of cap space” quickly becomes “over the cap” with just one signing. Everyone who is saying let’s sign Bouwmeester or whatever, keep that in mind. Even the Kings, with a relatively low cap figure compared to everyone else, can’t afford more than one big guy.

  • sd

    Quisp,
    Why do you say there are 2 spots on D to fill? I count 5 starters signed for next season (Doughty, OD, Greene, Quincey, abd JJ) plus Harrold as an alternate. We need 1 starter who I assume will come from our pipeline at a pretty low price; probably not Hickey. The way he looked in the WJC, he could use some work in Manchester. We’ll see, but either way, we should focus big money on O this summer, not D.

  • Johnny Kick a Hole In The Sky

    Quisp,

    Jack Johnson has done nothing to warrant a raise. The ball is in Dean Lombardi’s court and if there’s anything to go by, we should expect a lowball offer. If Jack doesn’t like it, his *** could be on the way out.
    Same goes for Teddy Purcell. He hasn’t even earned his current contract. Why should Dean give him a raise?

    There’s definitely room to sign one big UFA for next season. Out of Jay Bouwmeester, Marian Hossa and Marian Gaborik, JayBo is the one you go for since he’s an elite defenseman and makes the entire team better, while a Gaborik only strengthens the 1st line.

    Or we could go cheaper and sign a guy like Comrie, Zednik, Sykora, Cole, Weight, or Recchi etc.

    Or we could get rid of Terry Murray and bring in a coach that likes a tiny bit of offense.

  • Marty

    The Kings will lose Jack just like Sully and Cammy.If you want them to play you got to pay them.Of course it really helps if you keep them.No room for frugalness or poverty.Fro is also on his way out,onward and upward.

  • Anonymous

    Dear Quisp,

    you are so out of touch it’s scary…You should sit down with DL so he can show you the way….jeezz…your are so …entertaining.

  • Anonymous

    On a side note…isn’t that the same ref that screwed us in Montreal?…hmmmm?

  • Dan H.

    Don’t forget Frolov’s cap space. I doubt that he’d stick around the way he’s being treated. I wouldn’t.

    Richardson gives up a turnover and it goes right in the net and he doesn’t miss a shift. TM would have sat Frolov for that.

    Williams is a turnover machine too and he’s rewarded by playing on the first line.

    Go figure.

  • Datacloud

    No way JJ makes 3M, or even 2.75M for that matter. He is as mistake-prone as they come. He needs another year to give us a final look at what kind of player he’s going to be. We need to sign him in the offseason, correct? It’s going to be a tough one for Dean. It should be heavily performance based, and back-loaded so we can somehow get out of it should he completely tank. Unfortunately, I don’t know about how these things work, but what I do know is that JJ will be lucky to get half of 3M next season.

  • Anonymous

    Regarding the loss to Nashville…
    Wasn’t the head ref the same one who screwed us in Montreal???

    Just sayin’, that penalty on Kopitar was weak! It cost us the game. Guess who called it…

    Stephane Auger….

    Somebody find out what this guy’s problem is and get him therapy…He’s cost us 3 POINTS THIS SEASON!!!

  • liki

    maybe one thing to mention regarding this game. Kopitar scored tonight his 200 point in his NHL career.

  • Anonymous

    Why would bouwmeester sign with the Kings? He didn’t resign in Florida, yet, and has never played in the playoffs, NHL or in the WHL. Every team would love to sign him, offer a huge contract and in the end it will be where he wants to play with a chance to win.

  • cristobal

    I think JJ needs to be held in the core.
    If the fans will recall, this team was in a tailspin for a month and a half just before he came back and then proceeded to go on a good run that made the season appear respectable again.
    I think we need to keep in mind that on a poor team, good players can look less than they are because they have to compensate for the lack of quality and depth on the squad.
    From what I’ve seen of Johnson, he’s a definite keeper.
    I’d compare it to the Devils of the late 80′s early 90′s who had a lot of good pieces and some filler. THey held on to players like Bruce Driver, Ken Daneyko, and Scott Stevens and filled in the missing peices slowly.
    They’ve become a hell of a franchise for it.
    I think that if Lombardi actually achieves something like this, he’ll be held in high regard by all those (like myself) who have criticized him.
    I don’t necessarily believe he has the subtle abilities to achieve that, but maybe next season will be a surprise.
    Rather than go shopping for snipers, I’d like to maintain our youth and keep drafting well.
    I too like Jordan Schroeder a ton and, who knows, there are some other great prospects out there that could possibly round out this club very well.

    It’s up to Lombardi and the pressure will be on. We CANNOT miss the post-season next year or he needs to go.
    I think TM has helped this team become a solid defensive group, but wonder whether he can survive this summer or the entire season.
    There are definitely “tweaks” to the system that are necessary.

    As far as high-priced free agents I say “just say, no.”
    Lets pay our boys, not someone else’s.

    PS – Boyle should go elsewhere if wants a career in hockey. I want him on this club but he doesn’t seem to get the respect from our management.

  • Al

    We all keep harping on the players, but personally I’m looking behind the bench, Hapo is fine as is TM but the guy who is running the PP is out to lunch, the players only go with what they’ve been set up to do and all year it’s been pitiful. Yes there are some players who need to be moved, but also an assistant coach or two. Quisp, all you talked about was one side of the sheet, I suspect that there will be movement of a couple of big names on this club and possibly a prospect or rookie from this season so it’s not all money.

  • Moondoggie

    Good analogy Quisp, you’ve certainly done your homework….thx!

  • Big A

    Al – I agree that there may well be some additional movement. Frankly, we are loaded with young talent / prospects in our “own end” so there has to be some balance between maintaining depth and cashing in on that value while we can.

    JJ might not be the second coming of Lidstrom, but he’s clearly a damn good player who’s only going to improve. Yes, he needs to work on his angles and positioning. By contrast, how many years did we grossly overpay number 4 just because he occasionally laid out a hard check and would put up decent offensive stats some seasons? Btw, if I’m not mistaken, Blake is the only Norris winner to have a negative +/-.

    After re-tooling our D so effectively via the draft and the acquisition of Quincy, why spend UFA money on another defenceman? With a cap it makes no sense to use it for anything other than our most pressing need, which is CLEARLY offense.

    I’m a very patient person but I think we need an immediate impact player, something that we aren’t getting in the draft. It’s possible that a Kane or Duchenne (both’ll probably gone by the time we draft), Schenn, Schroder or the Swede (MPS) might light things up, but it’s HIGHLY unlikely in year one and this franchise can’t just sit and wait for another crop of draftees to develop. Our franchise is full of young talent… so bringing in one scorer is hardly the same thing as going “Glen Sather.”

    I do know that I’m not going to shell out as much money for tickets next year unless they bring someone in.

  • Anonymous

    Cristobal -

    What has Boyle done to deserve the respect of management? My thought is that respect is earned. He hasn’t demonstrated that he gets what he’s been told he needs to be by management in LA or Manchester. I do hope he makes it in the NHL though.

  • number 6

    Big A said:
    After re-tooling our D so effectively via the draft and the acquisition of Quincy, why spend UFA money on another defenceman?

    I’m a very patient person but I think we need an immediate impact player, something that we aren’t getting in the draft.

    Yup. I couldn’t agree more. I think you’re spot on Big A. I also agree with everyone that next year something really needs to move forward. I certainly hope so. I have to confess though, I’ve seen bits and pieces of other teams. St. L. (Oshie looks amazing and Eric Johnson missed the whole season), CBJ getting stronger and stronger, who knows what’ll happen w Dallas and Edm next year. So it’s gonna take some major doing for the Kings to get into the post season.

    I personally have no answers. On these blogs there are loads of comments about this player and that player…. of course the players make a difference (the personnel) but they Have to change some of these repeating patterns that have gone on for a long time. Inopportune penalties (clearly there are good ones and bad ones and the Kings have taken too many unnecessary and poorly timed ones -see last night in OT and other games where they have a lead and take a penalty that gives the momentum to the opposition) and poor decision making. Last night they have a 1-0 lead on the road, try to get too fancy getting the puck out and it’s in their net. 1-1 and they never had control of the game after that. TM was saying how great it is that they keep having these 3rd period comebacks. Is that putting a positive spin on it? Great to be resilient, and they are, but it hasn’t for the most part been winning them games, with maybe 3 or 4 exceptions this season. Maybe I’m just seeing the glass as half empty, but I think there is some reality in what I’m saying. In the West seems like everyone else keeps improving too, so I just don’t know how easy of a jump this is gonna be. If the Kings are to get into the post season they have to jump over some of the teams currently in front of them! Who will those teams be? Will the maturation of the players make the difference?

  • jet

    Good analysis Quisp and Cristobal.
    I still believe that the salary cap will decrease. I know that the Canadian teams want the NHL to hold off until next year, but I think there are too many franchises on the edge of survival. I have read cap suggestions anywhere from 50M to 55M for 09-10. If this is the case, then young players with small contracts will become even more valuable. Lombardi will be sitting pretty while other teams with other teams desperate to dump salary. DL may even be able to pick up a skill player at half price.
    Can you imagine if the cap goes down 3M and Hosssa signs for 5M? I would not want to be a free agent this year. But, I guess the good agents saw this problem coming (ex. Kopi).

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    Okay, you’re probably right that I am over-estimating the Johnson contract. Let’s call it $2MM then. Adjust all numbers downward accordingly. The Purcell raise I’m talking about would be nominal, i.e. $100-200K. So we’re talking about a $49MM cap hit if the last forward is a prospect with a prospect contract.

    Al/Big A — of course you’re right about “other movement.” It’s somewhere between probable and very likely that there will be some trades. But I was only addressing the cap situation, not what future trades will do to the cap (since there’s no way to know in advance).

    Also, it’s not hard to make a list of the players we wouldn’t be surprised to see traded and the players who appear to be untouchable (at this point). I’ll give it a try, and you guys can edit/correct/adjust:

    Will not be traded: Kopitar, Brown, Doughty.

    Will not be traded but maybe they could be (as part of something big, I guess): Quincey, Simmonds, Greene, Stoll, Moller, Quick.

    Probably won’t be traded, because of big contract and NTC: Handzus.

    Probably won’t be traded, because what’s the point, he just signed here and he’s got a specific purpose: SOD.

    Fair game: Frolov, Johnson, Boyle, Purcell, Richardson, Harrold, Zeiler, Ivanans, Ersberg.

    The thing about trading prospects and kids is, it doesn’t affect the cap except upwardly, because they’re already affordable. The only players who will save you any money if you trade them (in a salary dump) would be Frolov, Johnson (since you would avoid having to sign him), Greene, Stoll and Handzus.

    You could (if possible) swing a trade for Kovalchuk, but since you wouldn’t be able to give equal salary back (Frolov plus Johnson = $5MM next year, more the year after), you would still be pushing the cap figure into the low 50s, and you would then not have room for a Hossa signing (or whoever, pick your favorite UFA).

    A lot depends on the internal cap AEG gives to DL for next season, and none of us knows what that will be. Based on their comments and DL’s comments about adding a piece to reward the kids (or whatever was said), I imagine the budget is higher than it was. But the Kings are already at $49MM for next year. It’s a big question whether AEG is willing to pay more than that.

  • LBlocal

    Good takes people. Kudos Quisp. Did a great job breaking down the salary cap for next year. Thanks.

    My take: With a heavy heart I’ve come to accept that fan favorites Frolov, Johnson, (and to a much less degree) Boyle, Lewis or Purcell may be moved by draft day. We’ve seen it too many times before with players in too similar situations. Lubo, Cammi and most recently, Sulli. All with a common theme. Letting our kids develop into players, but if their not on board with DL’s grand plan, SEE YA!

    DL will not or cannot deviate from his cap-centric plan. (ego driven or not) Recent history dictates that players that ‘completely’ buy into the plan, stay. Those who have real value but don’t like the idea of a ‘Kings tat on their rear end’ will be put down, talked down, demoted to Manchester, relegated to the dog house, in order to keep their salaries as a manageable as possible. Didn’t DL start out as an agent? (ego driven or not)

    Whatever you do as a King, do NOT pick your agents’ advice (for real value $$$) and accept what your ‘organization’s value’ for your services.

    “You may get the contract you are asking for today, for tomorrow you may (and probably will) be shipped to northern Canada.

    I just don’t get it.. We can bring in beachball at top dollar from the nucks, giveaway a multi-year subsidy to McCauley Painting in South Carolina. Throw MAJOR biscuits (2Y, 12M) at the teams’ previous quote unquote captain and face of the franchise. And for what? Loyalty? Yah. He bolted at 9:05a July 01, 2008 to the guppies up north. Millions more for for the short-term ‘bridges’ Nagy, Calder, Priessing and Gautier.

    (I SURE HOPE JUSTIN WILLIAMS DOESN’T FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY)

    Realizing this, I am hoping for a best case scenario.

    DRAFT DAY – trade 1st pick (5,6, or 7) and either Frolov, Johnson, or two prospects to (NYI, TB) for the number 1 pick and take John Tavares. If this doesn’t work, offer a similar (lesser) package and get Victor Hedman.

    JULY 01 – offer UFA multi-year contracts to Johan Franzen (3.5-4M) and Jay Boumeester (5.5M Ave)

    Using Quisp’s formula, with respect, removing Frolov’s (2.9M Cap, 4.0M Act) 09-10 cap hit or Johnson’s next deal 2.7 – 3.5M yearly can allow the Kings to afford Tavares, Franzen and Boumeester.

    Prospects – Hickey, Lewis, Boyle (if he is not traded) will be added to the roster. With Cliche, Clune, Drewske, and Moulson scratching at the bit to get to the show.

    Ideally, resign Frolov and Johnson. Keep losing games to improve draft position. Win the lottery and pick John Tavares. Forget Boumeester, sign Franzen. =)

  • AK47

    Are you guys blind? How can you all want to get rid of Johnson? Look at his numbers this year and last year. He has 5 goals and 4 assists this year and missed a huge part of the season, playing only 34 games, right? Last year he put up 3 goals and 8 assists in 74 games. He’s improving and he’ll keep improving He needs to get used to playing with the new D corps and the new coach, and the more time he spends with doughty, o’donnell, greene and quincey, the better of a player he’ll become. He’s a stay home defenseman, so don’t expect his numbers to go up, but he’s staying in LA, no doubt. I can’t see Jacko getting traded, I just can’t, but then again I couldn’t see O’Sullivan leaving LA.

    Quisp, nice breakdown brother. Trevor Lewis will be in LA next year, and so will either gaborik, hossa or havlat. Also, if we go after Kovalchuk, I’d expect us to include Frolov, Boyle and whoever we draft in the first rounder..

    It’s somewhat complicated, but this is how I look at it…

    If DL thinks that we can sign either Gaborik, Hossa or Havlat then he’ll just go ahead and draft an offensive player like Jordan Schroeder or Nazem Kadri. Now this is where it gets complicated.. If DL decides “ok, you know what? I don’t think any of the big UFA will sign in LA, I say we go after Kovalchuk..”, then he’ll call Don Wadell and offer him a package for Kovalchuk.. The package will include the player we pick in the first rounder, but it won’t be schroeder or kadri, it’ll be a defenseman like Cowen.

    ATL gets:
    Frolov
    Boyle
    Jared Cowen

    LA gets:
    Kovalchuk

    Do you guys understand? It’s really either or.. Does DL want Gaborik or Hossa or Havlat? Or does he want to trade for Kovalchuk? Either way, We’re getting one of these guys, it’s a guarantee. We’ve had too many games this season where we were shutout, and that’s just unacceptable..

    Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Williams
    Purcell-Moller-Brown
    Simmonds-Stoll-Lewis
    Ivanans-Handzus-Richardson

    Doughty-Johnson
    Quincey-Greene
    O’Donnell-Hickey/Voynov
    Harrold

    Quick
    Ersberg

    Now, if we decide to just sign a UFA like Hossa, Havlat or Gaborik, this would be the lineup

    Frolov-Kopitar-Gaborik/Hossa/Havlat
    Brown-Moller-Williams
    Simmonds-Stoll-Purcell
    Ivanans-Handzus-Lewis
    Richardson-Harrold

    Doughty-Johnson
    Quincey-Greene
    O’Donnell-Hickey/Voynov
    Harrold

    Quick
    Ersberg

    Solid lineups

  • Anonymous

    After reading the comments, I am left wishing that we’d have incorporated Lewis, Boyle, Purcell, and some others all of ’08 and ’09.
    I think we wasted valuable “growth” time trying to find buyers for Calder and Preissing and maybe even Handzus.
    It’s when I look back at our approach to this season that I think Terry Murray got it a bit too wrong.
    We’re still unsure of too many of our elder prospects, including Purcell.
    Too add to the confusion, is DL really trying to be patient, or does the O’S/Williams trade signal a trend of trading lower-priced prospects for higher-priced “young-vets?”
    I don’t know whether I can expect Lombo to package the franchise for the marketability of Tavares, or whether he’ll be seeking to add free-agent/veteran players through packages, or whether he’ll continue to try adding “elite” prospects like Hodgson/Colin Wilson types.

    I guess we’ll know what direction we can expect around draft-time, but it wasn’t until after the season that Lombo fired Crawford, either.

    We also need to keep in mind that Lombo’s “cash management” has been proven to have been orchestrated from the top (i.e. AEG) and the desire to find a partner to buy in.
    Lubo wasn’t traded for Lombo’s reasons, really.
    That is a fact of this franchise and we never know when Leiweke will send down orders to sell this or that….

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    LBlocal/AK47:

    I’ll just add one wrinkle. AEG. The trade-up for Tavares/Hedman option would be more likely if AEG put an internal cap on DL that’s too low for him to go after Hossa/Kovalchuk etc.. If if if if if AEG will let him spend, I think DL will go for the proven topline sniper over the #1 prospect. But who knows. The worse situation would be for AEG to allow a little more spending, but not enough to get what we need, so we’re stuck between the Tavares/Hedman trade-up option and the Hossa/Kovi option, and we end up with another really great second line player, of which frankly we have too many already.

  • number 6

    Quisp, AK, guys, seriously, seriously, seriously, seriously….. When the Angels traded for Mark Texeira I said “oh damn, bad trade”! For me, I was right. Not that I can see the future, but I can tell you, they aren’t gonna get Hossa. It’s just not gonna happen. You’re just setting yourselves up for disappointment. If he went to Det to try and win a Cup, then whether or not he wins it this year he’s not just gonna say, “good, job done, or too bad, we came close…. now I think I’ll move over to the Kings and get some nice sunshine”. If we do get him then please find this comment and remind me of it.
    He left a team with serious Cup possibilities And the chance to play with Malkin and Crosby to go to Detroit. Did you not notice that? So now he’s gonna come to the Kings.?

  • AK47

    Quisp:

    Does Frolov stay?
    Does JMFJ stay?

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    AK47 – I love both of those guys. But I don’t have to sign them or pay them. I would keep them.

    number 6 -

    Nobody is saying the Kings are going to get Hossa. He could end up anywhere, basically. But your reasoning is a little bit off, I think.

    First, I don’t think it’s possible for Detroit to sign Hossa. I added up the numbers here: http://kwisp.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/detroits-cap-issues/

    Second, f Hossa doesnt sign with Detroit, hes going to seek more money elsewhere. The question is, (1) who wants him? (2) whos attractive to him? and (3) who can afford him?

    Answer to #1: more or less, everybody.

    Answer to #2: first choice, a contender. Who are the contenders? San Jose, Washington, Calgary, Chicago, Boston, Vancouver, New Jersey, Pittsburgh. But see answer #3

    Answer to #3: none of the contenders have cap space to sign him. Will someone sign him and then put themselves in the Brian Burke position of having to trade assets when the entire world knows they are over a barrel? Probably, they wont. Will someone go on a draft day fire sale to shed salary in order to make room for Hossa? Dangerous to do that, since you might not get Hossa, and then where will you be?

    Who has the cap space? A bunch of losers, thats who. Im including the Kings in that. A bunch of teams that arent going to look too attractive to Hossa. Among which, he may have to pick the team with the brightest future. The loser with the brightest future. Among said losers, there is no one regarded to have a brighter future than the Kings.

    Thats our hope. We have the cap space, we are the future, and we need to be successful now.

    Thats not a horrible pitch. Will it be good enough? Who knows. If Hossa figures this out, he may just re-sign with Detroit for peanuts and force them to ditch Franzen instead.

    But you can’t just say, well, he’s never going to sign with the Kings when the Kings are literally one of the only teams who can afford to sign him without putting themselves in the Burke-f***-me position.

    I’m not saying he’s coming here. My actual opinion is I have no idea how the situation will resolve itself. But if you think he’s going somewhere else (e.g. San Jose, pick your “contender”) then run the numbers. Whichever contender tries to sign him finds themselves in the same untenable situation as Detroit. And among the non-contenders, who’s a better option? Atlanta? Phoenix?

  • LBlocal

    Remember what happened to Marcel Dionne when he humbly asked the Kings organization for a “fair-value” contract? {Nobody is untouchable}.

    It’s not a good feeling as a lifetime Kings fan, knowing that your beloved team traded away hockey icons like Marcel Dionne… and Wayne Gretzky.

    As far as signing a sniper. 1. Kings already have a 7M dollar player signed for 6 years (and he’s only 21!). 2. Hossa has publicly stated that he wants to stay a Wing; resigned to accept less $$$ for a longer term deal. 3. Gaborik is a great talent, but brittle. Plus, the Kings haven’t had much recent luck with Czech/Slovak players. Pass. 4. Kovi and Havlat are legitimate, but at what cost? 5. Spezza – Ek loves him in LA. (ENOUGH SAID – PASS)

    With DL’s & TM’s ‘east coast/crash the net’ flyer style, I see them looking at the Mule in his prime at a less inflated rate. At 6’3″ 230, he’s a beast in front of the net. Not a true number one. But on a second line of lets say Brown Boyle Franzen or Brown Stoll Franzen.

    What Tavares and Hedman did in the WJC was awesome. They proved to everyone that knows hockey.. They are both the real deal. In 08 Tavares was projected equal to or higher that Stamkos in many scouts eyes. At 6’7″ 225, Hedman dominates the game much like a Chara or a young Pronger used to.

    BTW.. ISN’T RICH OUT OF PURGATORY TODAY??? YIPPIE!!

    GO KINGS! GO RICH HAMMOND!

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    I would like to amend my comment above. Among contenders, Vancouver has the cap space to sign Hossa next year. They’re maxed out right now, but may lose Sundin, both Sedins, Pyatt, Ohlund, Vananananananan as well as RFAs Bernier, Wellwood, Hansen and O’Brien and several other UFAs I’m too lazy to mention. VAN has only 11 players under contract for next year, including exactly one top-six forward, Demitra. I actually have no idea what Vancouver is going to look like next year, and I don’t think their pitch for Hossa or whoever would be especially compelling. Presumably they won’t re-sign Sundin, but who knows. Will they lose the Sedins? Maybe. Can they sign Hossa and not lose valuable RFAs to offer sheets? It’s dangerous. With Vancouver, Hossa would have to be wondering who he’s actually going to play with, i.e. who’s on the team. With the Kings, it’s clear: Frolov and Kopitar.

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    LBlocal –

    I agree with every single thing you just said, except the Hossa part. He has agreed to take less, but even the discount to around $6MM doesn’t add up for Detroit. Both sides have said they want to work out a deal, but Holland has also said it may not work out and he may not want it to, since it would mean dismantling the depth of the team. Holland absolutely has to make some painful choices.

    There was an article in the Edmonton paper today in which he said the following incredibly pessimisitic thing:

    The only press conferences Ill be having this summer are to tell people which players are leaving, said Holland, who could lose Mikael Samuelsson and Tomas Kopecky to unrestricted free agent offers. Im not into woe is me, though. Whos going to feel sorry for the Detroit Red Wings? Weve had a great run we want to keep it going so were always a playoff team.

    I’m just going to cut-and-paste what I said about this earlier: One option Detroit has is to sign Hossa forI dont knowsay $5MM (cap hit), which is about a million less than the pay cut everything thinks hes going to get. But lets call it $5MM. Maybe Holland does some fancy footwork and front loads the contract so the cap hit is less than the salary. That would leave just under $3MM for six forwards. Which is under $500K per guy. Which means they would have to let go not only of Franzen, but Samuelsson, Hudler and Kopecky and replace them with dirt cheap prospects at, well, league minimum salary. And this would put them exactly at the cap, which give Holland no wiggle room at all. I think Hossa is going to cost more than a $5MM cap hit, but since the Zetterberg hit is $6MM, Im going to say its possible. I just dont think even at that price they can avoid dismantling the team. So, basically, that option sucks.

    I really think Hossa will walk.

  • LBlocal

    03.23.09 “Hossa told the Detroit Free Press that hed be willing to take less money to remain with the Red Wings. I could be somewhere else, you know, but I came here because I like everything and I want to be a part of it, Hossa said. And thats why I want to still be a Red Wing and stay here. Detroit is 45-13-8 when Hossa is in the lineup this season and it seems that hed be the better choice if the Wings can only keep one of he and Johan Franzen if they hit the open market this summer.”

    Tough job Ken Holland has this summer, eh? Hossa is not making it any easier either.

    One man’s grief is another man’s glee.

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    Yes, I know. But then:

    Holland met with Hossas agent, Ritch Winter, over the weekend. Hossa signed a one-year, $7.45 million deal last July but realizes he must take less (perhaps in the neighborhood of $6 million per season) to stay. If were not able to find a way, you know what, we had a great player come here for one year, Holland said. Franzens price tag is expected to be in the $4 million-a-year range. While Holland said there is a chance he can sign both, he knows he would have to unload a few other players in the process. The decision we got to make is, do we want to be top-heavy and not have any depth? Holland said. Thats why Im not rushing into any (moves).

    Underline: the “less” that Hossa is willing to take is thought to be in the neighborhood of $6MM, and I don’t see how they can make the numbers add up even at $5MM.

    When Holland refers to unloading a “few” other players in order to make the Hossa thing work, he’s talking about, Franzen, Samuelsson, Hudler, Kopecky AND ALSO trading someone who’s signed (e.g. Cleary, Stuart) in a salary dump.

    Otherwise, it just doesn’t matter what Hossa says. The numbers are the numbers are the numbers. And the cap is going to go DOWN after next season.

    Do you think Holland is really going to twist himself into a pretzel and gut the depth of the team in order to sign a guy who wasn’t even on the team a year ago, who has been responsible for, so far, exactly zero cups?

    As far as the Free Press writer goes, sure Hossa would be “the better choice” over Franzen if they were commanding equal salaries. If Hossa is willing to sign for $4MM, then Holland should do that. So far, nobody thinks that’s what Hossa means when he says “less.”

    The guy was turning down nine million from EDM last summer.

  • number 6

    Quisp, point taken…. up to a point (scuse the repetition). However, I have to confess that a team like the Isles I can see much more easily reeling in Hossa. Why? Because they’ve had an Amazing run late in the season, they have just as appealing a group of players (maybe a bit less) than the Kings. Have you seen Kyle Okposo? They also have Mark Streit. And they don’t have cap issues to the best of my knowledge. The Kings on the other hand have been sinking lately again. If you compare the Kings last half vs the Isles last half guess I’m afraid the Isles will look a bit more appealing.

    Here’s another thing. While I don’t dispute your specifics re: teams with cap issues (for sure you’re right there), the thing is that one never knows how that will all shake out. Here’s an example. I live in ny so lot’s of Rangers news here. I never would have thought that with their salary cap problems they’d end up with Antropov, Derek Morris and Avery (though I understand they only pay a portion of Avery’s salary) at the trade deadline. So it just goes to show what can happen. Things can move very fast.
    Another thing, there may be 6th-8th seeded teams in the playoffs (both E and W) who make a huge splash in the playoffs. That also could attract a player like Hossa and those teams (like CBJ) don’t have the same cap issues. All I’m saying is Yes I Can see Hossa coming to the Kings (maybe)…. for a ton of money and because he wants a life style change. DL doesn’t want players who wanna come here for the sun, and his salary demands would break the bank. Sorry but that’s truly what I think.

    More realistically I can see a major trade for Kovie or someone maybe being pulled off (I don’t expect it but it wouldn’t amaze me), but most probably something or someone else. Also, like many here I don’t trust AEG…. I can much more easily see them saying they are happy to make incremental improvements… a few more points next year, maybe a run at the Playoffs. I don’t see them saying, “you know what Dean, we’re getting close, heck how much you think it’s gonna cost to bring in Hossa”? Could I be surprised. Yes. Do I think I will? No. That’s about AEG, not about where the Kings are at.

  • dana

    You guys are a bit off on the cap #’s we have 20 players under contract next season already at just under 40mm, of 43.2mm with bonus included.

    http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=LAK

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    #6 –

    I see your point. The Rangers, though, are in a different position. The guys they brought in, Morris and Antropov, are UFA, so it’s not a cap issue at all. And Avery, as you said, they’re only paying half.

    I agree completely re AEG.

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    LBlocal, re Moulson:

    I forgot to mention, he’s UFA (VI) this summer, unless he’s re-signed.

  • number 6

    Yeah Quisp. That’s all I’m saying. btw, I wanna be clear that I wasn’t coming down on you at all (and hope it wasn’t perceived that way). Like most of us, for me it can be frustrating being a Kings fan at times. So when I read certain things (again, not your posts) I tend to think…. hold on here> where is the reality in all of this?!

    That’s all. Sure I’d love to have our youth be strengthened with the addition of a Hossa, Kovie, whoever you like. I remember reading once (or maybe it was TV) and I believe it was related to basketball and the draft… about how you almost have to come in really low at least once (first three picks) to build up from it and end up with a real game changer. Yes we got Drew D and need to see what sort of Long Term inpact that will have. Obviously Det and maybe NJ have shown that not to be totally true (though Yserman was their foundation for a long time and he was chosen 3rd I believe and Neidermeyer was also chosen 3rd by NJ), but I get the drift. NJ’s scouting is off the charts… same with Det. They manage to get incredible skill… the whole package. Parise was chosen in the twenties if I’m not mistaken. It’s really hurt the Kings to not have someone up front who can “finish and lead” the way Datsyuk or Parise can. I’m not sure it’s just having a sniper though that wouldn’t hurt.

    The reason I wrote all of the above is my very long winded way of saying that to me as I’ve stated on numerous occasions, the Kings issues have to do with Intangibles. Maybe DL and TM can get that sorted out and maybe not. It’s a lot to deal with On Top of having an owner who doesn’t really seem to care. Maybe that’s why I respond so vehemently to comments like, “oh we’ll just get Hossa and challenge for the cup”. Some people haven’t used those words, but might as well have.

    Sorry I know I’ve rambled a bit but am trying to get my point across best I can.

  • Dan H.

    Don’t forget Frolov’s cap space. I doubt that he’d stick around the way he’s being treated. I wouldn’t.

    Richardson gives up a turnover and it goes right in the net and he doesn’t miss a shift. TM would have sat Frolov for that.

    Williams is a turnover machine too and he’s rewarded by playing on the first line.

    Go figure.

  • I Wasn’t Given a Name

    Williams is a turnover machine too and he’s rewarded by playing on the first line.

    Comments like this make the comments section difficult to stomach.

    Danny Boy – Stick to figuring skating…

  • Big A

    ^^
    Thanks, you beat me to it.

    Guy is coming off an injury, playing with new linemates, and you’re burying him?

    And btw, POS’s lack of production is being questioned by the media in Edmonton.

    Players have different roles, expectations… the coach is working on improving various aspects of their games. For a fan to get bitter due to perceived differences in treatment by a coach towards players is usually short-sighted. No boss is going to treat everybody exactly the same… even in the army, and there are usually damn good reasons for that.

    Wrt Hossa… the options are definitely limited as to where he’ll end up & I think Holland is going to roll the dice and go with Franzen. I personally doubt Hossa will end up in LA, but I’d sure rather see him than Gaborik. Either way, it’s certainly not going to “bring us the Cup” but if we had a pure scorer in the lineup I’d expect LA to at least start making the playoffs on an annual basis.

  • http://kwisp.wordpress.com Quisp

    Dana, re cap figures:

    My figures are correct. It’s more complicated than simply looking at the bottom line and the tally of players signed. The twenty players signed includes Preissing, who will certainly be bought out, and Drewiske, who may or may not make the team. That’s leaves 18 players (not 20):

    11 forwards
    5 defensemen
    2 goalies

    Preissing gets bought out at 2/3 of his salary spread over twice the time remaining on his contract, which results in a cap hit of just less than .500.

    Purcell gets re-signed, say for the same cap hit as he has now, 1.35. Add that to your total of 43.2. Johnson gets re-signed. Call it $2MM. Add that to your total. Subtract the 2.25 for Preissing. You’re in the neighborhood of $44.2 now.

    Now you’re up to 12 forwards and 6 d. You need four more players. Let’s go cheap. Two prospect forwards, Lewis and Boyle. Now you’re up to $46.2.

    Two D to go. Two cheap but plausible prospects? Okay, Voynov and Drewiske. That’ll run you about 1.2 minimum. So that, at $47.4MM, is the absolute lowest cap hit we’re going to see next year. Also likely on D, though, is Hickey and a UFA veteran D. That model will run something like $3.75, 2.5 for Hickey and 1.25 for the UFA (like SOD). So you have to add 2.55 for that option. And that’s $49.95MM.

    Now you’ve got yourself a full roster with no big signings and it’s going to run you somewhere between $47.4 and 49.95 million dollars in cap hit. Now, your results may vary, but those are the numbers. Like I said before, I don’t think DL can plan for Hickey not to make the team. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t. But he has to leave room.

    Any big UFA signing is going to push the Kings way up over $50MM. That’s what I’m saying. I hope AEG is willing to spend that much. But the fact is, that 43 number you quote is going to be closer to 50 by the end of camp even if we go the cheap route from here on.

  • anonymous

    If I’m Don Waddell in Atlanta, I’d want a HECK of a lot more than Frolov, Boyle and the Kings #1 pick. Kovalchuck is their franchise player, so if he’s going to trade anything, he’s going to want A LOT more than that. He knows Thrashers fans would never return if he didn’t get a good return on trading the only player the fans can identify with.

    And if I’m running the Islanders, I would ask for the Kings #1, my pick of either Drew Doughty or Jack Johnson, and my pick of either Frolov, Moller, Simmonds or Bernier. For what John Tavares is supposed to be, I wouldn’t give up that #1 pick for anything I didn’t know was a sure thing in return to make my team better. But yeah, I’d have to insist that either Doughty or Johnson be part of the package.

    I’m just saying…

  • anonymous

    Regarding Free Agent signings during the summer, you have to ask yourself what is the big attraction of playing for L.A? Just because they may or may not have enough money to cover the salaries, it’s still a two-way street. The player has to want to come here to play

    I wouldn’t know why players like Hossa, Franzen or Havlat would even want to sign here in L.A. Zdeno Czra has already proved that even if the offer is higher, he’s going to a team that fits better for him.

    Maybe the Kings are an up and coming team, but if I’m a free agent this summer, a beach and good weather isn’t enough to convince me to be a part of a rebuilding team.

  • Ersberg

    I’ll be honest, I didn’t read all of these posts, but I read the bulk of what’s being said here. All of these cap figures and us not having the space is based on us NOT trading any players. I highly doubt none of our guys get traded to aquire some key pieces. After seeing Sully traded, you guys should feel comfortable knowing NO player is safe from being traded for the right price/piece.

    It is rumored DL will go after a UFA and a trade. I’m going out on a limb and saying the UFA will be the lesser of the two more valuable components to the team(monetarily speaking). This will most likely be the guy that “wants to be here”. I.e. Gabs.

    The other will most likely be a hefty trade from our perspective. This is where we’ll free up considerable cap space to land this type of player. Dean knows we need to free up some room, so it’ll be something like Fro, Zus, a prospect, and a pick(or even more).

  • AK47

    Ersberg,

    you think that we can get Kovalchuk for Frolov, Handzus and maybe Jared Cowen?

  • Ersberg

    Ak-

    I highly doubt Kovy is the target. I don’t see Kovy going anywhere until the deadline next year. Don’t look now, but there’s talk about Lecavalier possibly coming to town. How much of that is pure speculation and most likely B.S.? I’d say a pretty high percentage of it, but I’m sure there’s been conversations about it(not just fan sites). Another reason his name is coming up is because of our need, and the possibility of us having the cap space(which we could do).

  • Ersberg

    “Maybe the Kings are an up and coming team, but if I’m a free agent this summer, a beach and good weather isn’t enough to convince me to be a part of a rebuilding team.”

    What re-build? We’ve already been re-built. Add 1-2 top-6 wingers to this team, and we’re in the playoffs guranteed. Your statement would hold water last offseason, but not this one.

  • Quisp

    Vinnie? That would be…uh…interesting, I guess. I would just say that he’s a number one center, and he’s a passer. He’s not what we need really. We’re deep up the middle; we have cast our lot with Kopitar, and secondarily Handzus, Stoll, Moller and Boyle down the middle. Of course it would be nice to have Vinne as number one, Kopitar #2, Stoll and Handzus as 3, 4 — move Moller to the wing for now, trade Boyle or just don’t resign him. But who are you going to give up and what holes would it make?

    Also, he’s under contract until the year 2020 at a cap hit of 7.7MM. You don’t make that trade until you think he’s going to retire in your uniform, because he will be untradeable the last half-dozen years of his contract.

    The Kings need help on the wings. Snipers on the wings.

    Anon –

    I agree Atlanta will a King’s ransom for Kovalchuk. For Kings fans to imagine that trade, you have to imagine something that’s going to hurt. Frolov, Boyle and a 1st is an example of something that wouldn’t hurt at all (come on, that’s basically Frolov for a 50-goal scorer, that’s not hurt). Hurt is: Frolov, Johnson, Hickey, Bernier and two 1sts. That might get it done.

    As far as the Islanders thing goes, I don’t think Doughty and Johnson are equivalent. Nobody’s going to debate who to take if they’re given the choice between Johnson and Doughty.

  • Ersberg

    “Vinnie? That would be…uh…interesting, I guess. I would just say that he’s a number one center, and he’s a passer.” He is?

    Quisp-He’s the best passing goal scorer I’ve ever seen. He would not only ellevate the Kings’ game, he’d run us straight into the playoffs.

    The only reason TB isn’t going to the post season, is because their D and goaltending suck.

    “The Kings need help on the wings. Snipers on the wings.” Justin Williams. I don’t think we’d stop there, either. Gaborik?

    You guys keep making it sound like everyone will be here next season. You may want to change that line of thinking, starting today.

  • Ersberg

    Geak out on these lines…

    Gaborik-Lecavalier-Brown
    Gaborik-Lecavalier-Williams
    Gaborik-Lecavalier-Purcell

    Hmm…playoffs. Yep, those are all winners.

  • number 6

    Ersberg said:
    You guys keep making it sound like everyone will be here next season. You may want to change that line of thinking, starting today

    Ersberg first you said the above, which I totally agree with. Then not sure why you said the following, unless you were dreaming:

    Gaborik-Lecavalier-Brown
    Gaborik-Lecavalier-Williams
    Gaborik-Lecavalier-Purcell

    I don’t want to criticize anyone on this site. Everyone has the right to express themselves. It just seems to me it would be more palatable if some people started their comments by saying “IT WOULD BE NICE IF” instead of speaking of all these amazing players that are gonna show up in LA, by giving up Frolov and maybe Zus.
    Guys, if the other GM’s did that they don’t deserve to be making their living being GM’s in the NHL. Sorry.

    It’s true that Wayne Gretzky did get traded To the Kings. But that was a different day in age, different circumstances, and his wife played a part in that situation + there was money to boot. I’m not saying that DL might not make a big trade this summer. No way to know. But I
    think LBlocal got it right.

    LBlocal said: 4. Kovi and Havlat are legitimate, but at what cost?

    Quisp said:
    I agree Atlanta will want a King’s ransom for Kovalchuk. For Kings fans to imagine that trade, you have to imagine something that’s going to hurt. Frolov, Boyle and a 1st is an example of something that wouldn’t hurt at all.

    They may get a very good player in a trade, they may not. But if they do it’s not coming cheap.

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