Lombardi quotes on O'Sullivan

The more and more that I think about this trade, the more I like it. O'Sullivan was a good player and he will be missed but I think that this was the right move for the team. I wish O'Sullivan all the luck in Edmonton (except against the Kings!)

Its going to be exciting to see Williams put on the the Kings uniform for the first time, that's for sure.

d.l....

yr name is all over this one...let's hope yr right....!

And Oscar fits where when Williams says he's ready?!?!

There better be room for this kid in the top 6, because I think that is where he'll end up in a few years. If not here, somewhere else, AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE HIM SOMEWHERE ELSE!!

He still needs bulk and such, but I love his play. He battles hard and his goal was scored the other night because he was where POS never seems to be...IN FRONT OF THE NET.

Maybe it's too early for DL to answer this, but it's the next logical question to me after his last statement.

this sounds like what we all saw - a player that didn't really get comfortable this year and was moved around a lot on different lines. Maybe he'll click with Hemsky and Horcoff?

Sounded reasonable enough.

Let give ol Justin a try. Sully was a good lad but the Kings needs are more important. The 2nd rounder still bugs but, if Williams produces we wont even remember.

There are a lot of words there from Dumbo Dean but he didn't say anything

Moller is loved by everyone. -everyone-

Not going anywhere.

Providing he is healthy, Williams is the best player in this trade.

To this point, Sully hasn't taken his game to the next level, or certainly not consistently. Could he explode in the next year or so, perhaps. But as been mentioned in other threads, the fact there is more depth in the organization, and the feeling that Moller can step in to Sully's spot in the lineup, makes Sully a bit more expendable. Giving up the addition 2nd rounder stings a bit.

Perhaps in Edmonton, Sully will learn another move on the shootout besides always shooting 7-hole, glove side. ;-)

I just saw this on TSN:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=269757

Someone explain to me how all these guys are worth Richard Petiot, our sloppy seconds?

G- Olaf Kolzig
D- Jamie Heward
D- Andy Rogers
AND
a 4th round pick

Was Brian Burke workin the VooDoo on the lightning or what??? I mean it's crap for crap, but the pick alone is worth more than a 26 year old Petiot who's never cracked the NHL. I'm guessing it's a cap dump?

First off Rich,
I believe you are very ethical and consciencious.
A definite asset to us fans...

As far as DL is concerned.
Don't some of you guys find it spooky this wierd obsession he has with the Philadephia Flyers.
Don't you guys find it spookiy that the Phily organization is the first thing he looks at when he considers a move.

I also find it spooky that most of the players he acquired, are no longer on the team. Wilsie, Thornton, McCaualey, Cloutier, Lundmark, Nagy, Sully, Preissing (sort of), Crawford, Stuart, Modry, Heward.
These are all players he once bragged about as being core players.

The truth of the matter is that DL is a very mysterious and arrogant individual - who doesn't like to be judged. He doesn't like to called be on any moves he makes.
We're all supposed to accept it and not question it.
Because he's Gods gift to hockey.

I also believe that he has issues about honesty.
This 2nd round pick scenario, just irks me.
And this claim that he never discussed seriously any deadline trade, appears to be a lie.
I believe this GM has a problem with Moral turpitude. And as an attorney, these are the types of problems that usually get attorneys disbarred.
He seems to be very crooked.
And these type of individuals hurt an organization. As a matter of fact, they ruin the organizations reputation.

Thanks Rich.
You, I do trust.

O'Sullivan speaks:

http://oilers.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=PodcastPlayer&pid=98&iid=12432

cynic...

ya'...that trade is a complete dump...

complete dump of players and salary...

i thought the exact same thing when it broke this afternoon...i guess the nhl didn't think it was too out of line...i wonder what is...?

Rich, can you find out what number Williams is going to wear?

OMG I got an idea, since every time DL thinks of a move, he calls up the Philly management, why can't we get Claude Giroux..? But seriously, when will we stop dealing our top players to teams in our own conference. Edmonton seems to have our number this year, and imagine them with POS now.. Edmonton's smart.. They barely even lost anything in this deal.. Erik Cole was sent to another conference.. But POS was sent to a team that's been beating us all year, and for an injured player..

TM/DL, do us all a favor, and call Trevor Lewis up..

Anthony strikes again.

The other thing that's great for Patrick is the ice in Edmonton is so much better. Good luck to him.

Re Moller: I don't think DL is saying Moller is out of a job once Williams gets here. He's just giving a vote of confidence to Moller, re top-six minutes. That's really great news. Note to Purcell: keep getting your nose dirty and this can be you. (I think Purcell already got this message, but it's an important one for people playing for DL to embody:

DL (not to mention TM) likes players who drive to the net, who play hard, who work in the corners, who are tenacious on the puck, who play hard on the defensive side of the puck, who get the so-called "garbage" goals (the Phil Esposito goals). I don't think there's any kind of Philly nepotism going on. I think it's just that DL and TM are Philly kind of guys, and Philly has always had that kind of team. It's not a cult.

Look at who DL has dealt: Cammy, Lubo, POS. All offensive guys with problems defensively (in Lubo's case mostly but not entirely due to his size). Stuart, also; offensively sound but not great as a pure defenseman (I like Stuart, so this is not hating, okay?).

So, who's left who you could argue is not DL's kind of player? Top of the list is Boyle. Purcell has come a long way, and I have to think he'll be given a little bit more time, based on his progress this season (also, I think DL sees Purcell as a better or at least equivalent POS -- bigger, for one thing, and, though this is not hard to do, more willing to get physical than POS). Lewis is totally a DL kind of player. Moller, check; Simmonds, check. I think Azevedo may prove to be, too.

Calder, who I wish had turned into a pick today, is DL's kind of player. He plays hard. He gets his nose dirty. I'm not excited about Calder being a King. But I get it. And the other players had better get it too.

If anyone thinks they're good enough on their own to opt out of playing hard, playing defense, playing physical, playing the "team" game...here's a fresh reminder to wake the f up.

Patrick O'Sullivan is a great player and extremely talented. And he has risen above a world of s*** in his upbringing, so he will always get the benefit of the doubt from me for that. I will certainly miss him, and enjoy watching Edmonton play a little bit more. I hope he scores forty goals and so does Williams so we all can be happy.

"These are all players he once bragged about as being core players."

Dude, what planet are you on? At no point EVER has he even used the word CORE on any of those guys you spewed out in another one of your uninformed rants.Maybe you should look up what a core player is before posting.

All those guys were bridge players while the real core guys like Kopitar, Brown, Johnson, etc., progressed and matured to take hold of the team.
Your blind hatred of Lombardi could not be anymore evident in that last 2 paragraph.

Hey Rich, I just noticed what time you posted this and that's pretty damn late. I really have to commend you on your perseverance to this club.

Anyway we can get you for GM? hah

Thanks again.

Anthony sorry but I've never heard Dean Lombardi touting Wilsie, Thornton, McCaualey, Cloutier, Lundmark, Nagy, Preissing, Stuart, Modry, Heward as part of the "core." I believe the word you're searching for is "bridge."

I'll give you Sully, but putting aside Justin William's injury history, he is still young enough to be a part of the "core." DL even said that he wouldn't make this deal if Williams was over 30 year old. Sure you give up a few years, but apparently he got a player he thought was a better fit going forward.

Am I happy about the trade? Not really. I'm not depressed (like many others seem to be) either. I think I'm still letting this one sink in. Right off the bat I'll admit that the injury thing bothers me, so does the 2nd rounder. On the other hand, IMO a healthy Justin Williams is the best player in this deal. DL does a little gambling here, hopefully it pays off in the end.

With that said, GOOD LUCK to Patrick O'Sullivan, I'll miss seeing him wearing the crown. I hope he has a great NHL career. WELCOME to LA Justin Williams, I hope you left your injury bug behind when you were packing.

"I also find it spooky that most of the players he acquired, are no longer on the team. Wilsie, Thornton, McCaualey, Cloutier, Lundmark, Nagy, Sully, Preissing (sort of), Crawford, Stuart, Modry, Heward.
These are all players he once bragged about as being core players."
You must of gone to different Breakfasts with the GM, I don't recall him ever referring to them as core players, with the exception of O'Sullivan. The rest were bridges, fillers, and pieces to complete trades.

"I also believe that he has issues about honesty.
This 2nd round pick scenario, just irks me.
And this claim that he never discussed seriously any deadline trade, appears to be a lie.
I believe this GM has a problem with Moral turpitude. And as an attorney, these are the types of problems that usually get attorneys disbarred.
He seems to be very crooked.
And these type of individuals hurt an organization. As a matter of fact, they ruin the organizations reputation."

What is the big deal? He'd be an idiot of a GM if he told everyone what he was planning or negotiating. As long as he is honest with the ownership and his management team its a good deal. No one with half a brain would tell a competitor what they are bidding before they win.

As far as Philly goes, I wouldn't mind it if teams were scared shitless to play the Kings. Legion of Doom!

Once again we get a lot of words from Lombardi but an unsatisfactory explanation. Ultimately he just sees Williams as a better fit. Why he feels that way, I can't really tell, although I do take it as a positive sign that part of the rationale was to find players who will be more effective in the playoffs.

The other thing that worries me about DL's comments is that he seems to imply that Frolov may not be a good fit either. I've always liked Fro -- despite his streaky play -- and I hope he remains a King for a long time.

The Kings are cursed and Lombardi is the evil warlock that will destroy this team before he is let go.So let it be said ,so let it be done.Sha-Zam!

The only sentence that anthony wrote that made any sense was "Because he's Gods gift to hockey". after this trade, I'm really starting to think he is. Also anthony, how many tv channels do you get in LA that cover hockey? Just the one that shows Kings games? This statement by you "And this claim that he never discussed seriously any deadline trade, appears to be a lie" is ridiculous. I can name about 5 other GM's in the last week that said they weren't discussing any trades or weren't dealing certain players, only to make a trade today. Have you ever seen a Brian Burke interview when he's asked about trades? It's been like that forever in the NHL and in all sports for that matter. It really makes me realize that you're new to watching the sport and maybe I should cut you some slack, but I just can't....

Tantrum,
If you think DL is Gods gift to hockey - then you have issues.
This trade is going to be a bust.
Sully is going to a team that has coaches who actually know how to coach.
They are creative, and I'm sure they have more strategies other than the umbrella method Kampon and TM love to use.
Hemsky, Gagne, and Horcoff will dish him the puck more effectively and the Edm. ice is the best in the league.
Sully will flourish in Edm. like Cammi has in Calgary.

Williams won't be as fortunate. He leaves the more open ice eastern conference and arrives to a tight checking western conference.
He is now playing for poor coaches who know nothing about offense other than the umbrella system.
Furthermore, he's injury prone.
Williams wil be a bust. He'll be gone in two seasons.
A bridge player, since so many of you guys love that terminology.
Everything that DL mentioned or bragged about (wiiliams) was also said about Sully.
He's a broken record.

This is just unbelievable. Sully AND a good draft pick for a player that is very often injured. I'm not at all satisfied, no matter what Deano wants us to believe.

He did a b ad move in my opinion, but I sincerly hope Williams can prove me wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

My compliments to you Quisp for putting this mess into perspective. I particularly enjoyed your last paragraph, that was classy.

I guess I've gotten over the initial shock of this trade although I'm still not happy and I'll miss POS dearly. He was fun, although he was having a rough season. The funny thing, I talked to my 12 year old son this evening after the trade. My son is pretty intuitive. After listening to my ranting and raving over loosing POS AND the 2nd rounder, he looked and me and calmly said "Dad, has DL let us down yet? Just look at the team he's built in such a short time. Justin Williams will work out, trust me....."

I was shocked, stunned really. He was right. I'll really miss Sully streaking down the wing with some of those amazing shots he's managed to break off over his short tenure with LA. The fact is, his production had fallen off this year but like Quisp, I know he's a 40 goal scorer in this league. He will rebound. Also like Quisp, I'll probably pay a little closer attention to the Oil and even pull for them when they're playing anyone in the west except the Kings. We're all going to miss Sully, no question.

As much as I hate to say it, it's time to move on, the deed is done. Welcome Justin Williams to the Kings. I do hope you're a 30 goal scorer like DL says you are, a faster, grittier version of POS, you'll fit in well here. Hopefully you have recovered from your injuries, if not, this trade is certainly going to cast a lot of serious doubt into DL's leadership. ESPN says you may play for LA by mid-March. I hope you make it.

As for Sully playing the Kings in the future, I'll leave you all with a historical quote this evening....

"I believe we have awaken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve"

Fleet Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto - (after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor)

Aloha and good night!

i could not keep track of whether or not most people are for or against this trade, since there has been about 500 comments during the course of the day.

i will just say that i will miss sully. i think he is going to be a standout player in this league and will probably do very well in edm.

that being said... if mr. williams can fully recover from his current injury and stay healthy over the next 2 seasons, he will eclipse the numbers that sully puts up in edm. he is a winner, he is tough and gritty and he attacks the net. this is the kind of player dl likes. it also doesn't hurt that he put up good points on a cup winning team.

one final note on pos... i think his pissing and moaning about lines and his hold-out during the off-season was his undoing in dl's eyes. i can't blame dl for this. i'd be pissed as well if one of my employees held out when EVERYONE else showed up to work, some even earlier then they needed to, in order to prepare for the season.

no one can predict what will come of this. people like anthony and others want jw to fail so they can continue to blame dl for bad trades and ask for his firing - kind of sounds like rush limbaugh wanting pres obama to fail just to make a point. that's simply childish and sad.

trading for players and drafting players is a crapshoot. most of dl's early signings were nothing more than bridge players in order to fill roster spots for a couple of seasons. we are probably 2/3 of the way through that. in the next year or two, we will have our team. calder will be gone. d gauthier will be gone. preissing will be gone. army will be gone (maybe a future coach by then). we will have a couple less goalies that surely will be traded by then. many of the players currently in manch will be gone (boyle for one) and others will be up with the big club and we will be touting our new 18 and 19 yr olds just drafted and blogging about how good they looked at the rookie camps this summer...

that's the way it is folks. nothing can be predicted. we have 13 picks next summer. if 2 of them become full-time nhlers that would be great. we are close. closer than we've been in years. we finally have a direction and leadership positioning us for success. we did not have that before. many of you don't agree. that's ok. there are a lot of ways to accomplish this great task. at this point, i'm still a believer in what dl (and tm) are doing. even with this trade, which is forward looking, did not sway me (with a knee-jerk reaction like some of you) from seeing the big picture. if i'm the gm today, i personally don't make this trade. but, i'm not the gm. ultimately its dl's call. its his perogative. thank god he does not have to make deals based on polls!

all i ask for is a speedy and 100% recuperation of justin williams broken hand and that he is 100% ready to go next summer.

go kings.

Said by Sully:

"At the end of the day, ANYONE can be traded"

BOO-YAH! IN YAH FACE!!!!!! My point from yesterday, just had to say this..sorry.

Is it just me or does Sully sound STUNNED? I hear kind of a trembling in his voice. It sure seems as if he doesn't know what to think. He left the rink without talking to anyone....Damn....hope he'll be OK mentally. (Listening to the interview as I type this)

His talk about the red-eye flight, the adrenaline pumping, this is wearing on him mentally....

Hey Anthony, you are a broken record with your bashing of Mr Lombardi. When he arrived in LA we had nothing, no young guys either on the D or at forward or in goal. All the players u have mention in this blog was fillers, bridge players that was needed to fill a hole in our system. We didnt have a single player in certain age groups so he had to fill them with veteran players - hoping they will perform. I can agree on some of the trades that didnt work out because of injuries looks stupid when u look back at it. We all would have loved beachball if he had perform at the same level he did at his best in vancouver but he didnt - end of story. Im sorry to see Sully go but he was not the player that got his nose dirty when playing. If Sully had put up the same effort/hitting/passion as Ovie does in washington he would never been traded. Justin Williams brings that to the table - not in ovie style but.... and I hope he come back 100%. If he trades Fro in the summer its better be for something better, a major upgrade because Fro is our best player with the puck and he had made a good jump this season in all areas.

All I can say is, a healthy Justin Williams is the best player in this trade. HANDS DOWN.

Better than "Perimeter" Patty O'Sullivan. Better than Erik Cole.

I anticipate some of you fairweather Kings fans eating your words. I look forward to it with relish.

Bear in mind, Williams was not traded for out of sudden impulse.

They checked out his medical records. The guy has many years of hockey left in him and he is a true bad-ass who can crash the net and score in bunches.

Lombardi didn't want to say it, because he has no reason to be anything but gracious to O'Sullivan who has indeed put in great effort on the Kings and (obviously) is a true talent -- but Justin Williams is a passionate player, he is the hardnosed warrior-type player that O'Sullivan will never be, not in anyone's dreams.

A lot of you do not have any clue of what you just got. Think a Ryan Smyth-type player, only many years younger. Think, THINK everybody -- if Gary Roberts at age 40 can keep coming back from a group of injuries that are every bit as bad, a much younger, highly motivated player like Justin Williams can also.

JW is a badly needed presence on this team, sincerely a better fit for the team that is currently developing, and will be great in this locker room. Welcome to Los Angeles, Justin Williams!

Actually I'll really miss the guys (POS's) interviews, he always gave thoughtful, real answers with a minimum of the pro-sports cliche's. Always seemed humble and polite too...best of luck to him.
And I think JW is the type of player this team really needs, just hope that he holds together long enough to give the Kings some trade value. Another side benefit of this trade is the message it sends to other players, give it your all and make it about what's on the front of your shirt, not the back. The O'D extension is a good example of the organization looking after someone that wanted to be here, hopefully Fro, JJ etc follow suit and get their deals done with minimum fuss.

I wish POS all good things in Edmonton, I hope he has a great career. With that said I don't know what I think of this trade yet. I don't think we'll know what we really think of this trade till next year. I hope DL knows what he's doing, it's all on him now. POS just didn't fit with TM's system apparently. I liked POS a lot so I hope he does really well and helps them upset a team or two in the playoffs.

Good luck Sully,hopefully Edmontons a better fit for you.
With 19 games left and 7 points out,the playoffs are unlikely but not impossible.I think we should go with the kids to give them some experience.I remember when Felix Potvin got hot late in the season and led us into the playoffs.And in another year,that dude Chris Kontos came out of nowhere and scored like 12 goals in the playoffs.We need to get on another roll.Weve come this far,lets go out with a bang.Beat the shit out of Dallas and go from there.Dont know when JWs coming back,but welcome aboard bro.Heres my lineup in the meantime.
FROLOV-KOPI-PURCELL
MOLLER-STOLL-BROWN
CALDER-ZEUS-SIMMONDS
RICHARDSON-LEWIS-HARRY
JJ-DOUGHTY
QUINCY-GREENE
OD-DREWISKE
QUICK
ERSBERG
NEW MASCOT-BERSERKER
NEW SONG-POLK SALAD ANNIE-TONY JOE WHITE

a lot of canes fans had given up on JW ever being healthy again. a little worrisome.
and many of them wished they held on to sully instead of getting cole.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/williams-dealt-to-la-cole-a-cane-again

and i gotta give a shout to anthony. your crazy brother, go get em!

If the coaching on this team bothers you, you should more pleased with this trade.

If anything, even injured, Williams brings some vet leadership who is still somewhat in the same generation of our young guns. Instead of having a bunch of young forwards with no one to teach them what to do out there like Doughty and Johnson have O'Donnell and even Greene, since he's played many games and been to the finals. Stoll and Handzus are good but don't quite cut it.

Williams should help learn these young suckers right. I have a good feeling Williams will not hesitate to get on Brown's case if he's not out there playing physical. Williams is a good role model, because whatever you think about his underperformance this season, his injury history or his future recovery and performance, he has had success in this league, and attain the ultimate prize, playing a very key role in getting there.

I will miss O'Sullivan. Listening to that interview kind of broke my heart for the kid. I wish him very well in Edmonton, even though I wish horrible things for the organization as a hole.

The LA Kings though, are better off with another leader in the line-up/locker room, especially at forward than they are a young guy. We are still a young team, losing Sully doesn't change that. We will get even youner overall next year most likely, if Army and Calder go and another 20 year old takes his place. So don't fret, we didn't suddenly shift directions. This is a move for the future, and yes, a snear at this season (its also a wake-up call to the players).

We took away a student, and added a teacher. I'm happy about that.

But, in the end, only time will tell, as it will whether DL is still getting AEG paychecks by summer of 2010.

Rich, what is Williams current status? Is he done for the season or will we get to see him play?

Regarding Dean's "obsession" with the Flyers organization, if I remember correctly they made it to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. And Williams has a Stanley Cup ring. I don't see this as being an "obsession", but more getting proven commodities from a good organization. If Williams does recover from these injuries and returns to 30+ goal form, it's a good deal for the Kings.

Plus we know Edmonton struggles to resign players. I'd say there's a very good chance the Kings could get O'Sullivan back in a year or 2 if they wanted.

After thinking about this deal I figure Edmonton and Carolina worked up a deal. Cole for Williams, but the hang up was Cole being a UFA and Williams had a multi-year contract. So the draft pick came into play because Carolina will lose if Cole walks after the season. So Carolina calls Dean and says Lowe is offering ... for Williams. I don't see Edmonton gaining much in terms of 5 on 5 play. POS will help with the powerplay in creativity but no trench type player to park in front of the crease. They lost that in Smyth and tried it cheaper in Cole. As for the Kings correct me if I am wrong, but back to Dean and the Sharks years, Dean picked up Owen Nolan which in long term gave the the Sharks the grit, playoff experience and edge they had lacked before. My question would be does Dean see this from his past experience in Williams? Also again correct me if wrong, but didn't the Kings trade for a injured Thomas Sandstrom back in the day? If yes, then if history repeats then Williams will be a good one.

"Sully is going to a team that has coaches who actually know how to coach."

Anthony, after reading this statement I am convinced you don't watch much hockey outside of the Kings. This is Craig MacTavish's 8th full season behind the bench and he has guided them to the playoffs three times, only once making it past the first round (yes, I know they came within a game of the Cup).

Your blind hatred of DL could not be anymore evident than it is in the two comments you have made in this post.

Cammi flourishing? I don't remember a single person clamoring louder than you did for Cammy to be traded.

Not a single hockey publication or analyst think the King's got screwed in this deal; some even suggest that we got the most talented player. If you have gripes about the second round pick being thrown in, fine, I can understand that, but this was a sensible trade that just happened to involve one of your favorite players. Most hockey fans I know wouldn't be too upset to grab a 27 year old with a ring.

Oh and lastly, you are no position to say that somebody sounds like a broken record.

What if Justin Williams was the proven sniper the Kings management have been looking for all along? In our comments, we've been throwing out names like Gaborik, Havlat, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa... Justin Williams..? What if were to acquire via free agency a top goal scorer like Gaborik in the off-season, there's won't be any room for Moller on the 2nd line, and Purcell will probably ride the 4th line, with Trevor Lewis.. I just don't know what DL's reasoning is to this.. He must think Justin Williams is a natural born sniper, or else the deal doesn't make much sense.. Check the lineup next year with signing Gaborik (as an example, of course)

Frolov-Kopitar-Gaborik
Williams-Stoll/Lewis-Brown-------> Maybe Stoll gets demoted for Trevor Lewis
Moller-Lewis/Stoll-Simmonds
Purcell-Handzus-Richardson

It's a solid lineup, nonetheless, but I'm not sure this is what DL is seeing for the next season.. Or maybe he won't even go out and acquire Havlat, Gaborik, Hossa or maybe even pull a deal at the draft for Kovalchuk & Heatley.. And according to DL, Justin Williams plays the RW, and that's Dustin Brown's position, and I can't see DB play the 3rd line.. DB's a hard worker, and a good captain, but he can also put the puck in the net..

Did you hear what Lombardi said during one of the interviews with Daryl Evans? He's like "We got lots of phone calls about the young defenseman on our team, but I didn't listen to any offer.."

Maybe it was Doug Risebrough asking for Teubert or Hickey in return for Gaborik.. Or maybe Bryan Murray asking for Teubert in a deal to send us Heatley.. But I guess we'll never know.. I sincerely hope DL doesn't deal away Teubert or Hickey, IMO it would be the dumbest move.. These 2 kids are good friends and are used to being paired together, so why deal one of them away..?

TweenerSongs said:
Why not Gauthier? I'll tell you, genius: because he's playing a relatively solid game, that's why.

And I couldn't be more shocked at the general responses on this deal. Several of you even admitting to 'never (or rarely) seeing Williams play'. Unbelievable.

And he's had a few fluke injuries, granted; he's also played in every game, two years straight (I'm not sure what years; I believe it was '05 and '06).
Proof that most of you are nutjobs? Trust me, I'm just trying to save you from feeling like boobs in late March.

T

Well T, you're entitled to your opinion but I do honestly find your approach a bit arrogant. You Don't Know That JW will be healthy. Also, he may well play like the reincarnation of Guy Lafleur in March. Unfortunately that won't get us in the playoff's this year, and if he goes down injured again next November for three or four months that won't help a whole lot either.

My evidence for stating what I do... well I have no concrete evidence, but the Kings had traded Rob Blake to the Avs years ago for Adam Deadmarsh and Aaron Miller. Some hockey journalists were saying that Deadmarsh was "future captain material". Unfortunately he brought with him a nasty history of injuries, and never made it too far into his career with the Kings.
So unless you are a physician with a tremendous understanding of their impact on athletes (maybe you are in which case I respect your judgment) then I don't feel it's appropriate to start dissing the other posters on this site... because None of us know how this will all play out. Hopefully it will work out well for the Kings and I'll be one of the first to call out to you for your astute call. But there's certainly no guarantee that will happen.

Who says Filppula's goal last night? God I wish this guy was sporting a Kings jersey.

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20082009,2,954&event=COL209&fr=false

Thank goodness for Rich Hammond. Lombardi did what he had to in the moment. When people are under stress, they don't always make the best decisions, they make the ones that are easiest and fastest. Lying about the trade was that move. Owning up afterward was the right move, however. Rich, you are still the best source we have to DL and everyone knows it. Thanks for all your hard work.

As for all of this whining about the trade, why? I will miss O'Sullivan's speed and shootout move, but I'm optimistic about what Justin Williams can bring. I wish POS the best in Edmonton with faster teammates and better ice, just not when he plays the Kings.

Everyone knows we need JW healthy. It may take some time to get him there (see Handzus). If there is one thing that DL does better than all of us, it's understand how to build a winner & evaluate hockey players. No one is right all of the time, so give DL a break. Too many over-emotional rants over something that can't be fairly evaluated yet.

As for the 2nd round pick in addition, remember that we have 13 picks more and that not every great player comes from an early round, it's just more likely. DL knows how to draft and develop seemingly. He has been acquiring assets to be able to make moves. Here is one of his moves; he used one of his cards. It's HIS decision to make. We'll evaluate after a body of work by JW has been shown.

Besides, we only have a limited number of SPC's in our pocket at any given time. You can't draft half of the world and have them all under contract. We can't possibly use all of those 13 picks and sign them all when they come due. All he wants is two players per year to pan out. I think he can do that.

As for someone wanting players that they are familiar with, what is wrong with that? Would you rather him just pick-up any old player that he has NO knowledge of? Not have him do the best due diligence that he can? Why wouldn't he go on his own evaluations of players through his Flyers scouting experiences over the years? Some of you people are incredible in the statements you make. Let's just have him go by the seat of his pants and just try anything that looks good on paper instead, is that what you want?

As for those of you that don't think he said anything in that interview, I think there is more a problem with reading comprehension than lack of information.

Focus on the ultimate goal: winning the Stanley Cup. DL is trying to move us closer to that inch by inch.

GO KINGS! Beat the Stars!

Next step for Lombardi: Holding onto Jack Johnson, and re-signing him to a 7 year contract, same with Frolov.. Let's keep the same group of guys.. We're one proven 50 goal scorer (heatley) and another big dman (komisarek) away from going far in the playoffs..

After an afternoon and night to think this over I'm still not happy with this deal. I know realistically we're out of the playoffs already but trading a healthy young kid who's shown streaks of brilliant for someone who hasn't played more than a half a season the past two years because of injury and is injured now and won't be ready to play for another month...AND giving a second rounder to get him sounds irresponsible.

And for anyone that's crackingo on O'Sullivan's defense are you kidding me? The kids only regular shift at the first of last season was on the PK. He then went to the stopper line before they let him go up and sniff the net at all. His defense isn't in question.

And I have to admit I liked Anthony's post minus the name calling for the most part. Usually I just scroll by but he put some interesting points into that one and you can't dispute DL's record on bringing injured guys to the team.

I've had the night and morning to think about all of this, and I just have one question about it all:

Why pull the trigger now, and for Williams? He still would have cost us Sully and a 2nd in the off-season. Regardless of the leak, I feel this is what we would have had to bring to the table to aquire Williams. I posted yesterday on not much being available, but is this the best Dean feels he had a chance to aquire at the price we paid? There are other players available in the off-season that would cost us the same, that have similar stats. Sure, maybe they all don't have rings, but they also don't have the injury history.

I'm not ranting or complaing about the trade, it happened, we make the best of it, but I just can't help but think that this could have gone over better for us.

Hey Quisp/AK47-I read this trade as such:

1. DL will not bring in a big time guy at 7+ mil next year.
2. A komisarek like FA pick up will be priority 1 before draft day.
3. Clowe will be looked at to replace Calder, but he will command 3+/year.
4. He will draft front line heavy if possible.

DL will look at 2 veterens with grit. One for 3rd line and 1 for back line at a combined 7 mil / year
Might resign Calder for 4th line duties at 1.5/yr. Would rather have chris neil for 2 mil a year on the 4th and waive ivanans. With calders 3 mil gone, gauthiers 2 mil gone, armstrongs etc he should be able to give Johnson and Fro raises without raising our cap too much. Thus leaving him 7-8 to spend if given the green light.

our lines next year:

Fro-kopi-williams
Moller-Stoll-Brownie
clowe(similar FA)-Zues-Simmonds
open-open-open (purcell/Lewis/ivanans/Moulsen/calder)

Johnson-Doughty
Q man-Komisarek (similar)
OD-Greene

(harrold, etc etc)

Where does purcell fit??? not on the 3rd and he wont bump Brownie, Williams or moller. 4th line??? Smells like trade bait.

Any other thoughts???

ps POS was obviously a cancer!!! Have personally been very dissapointed with his play last 14 days. Really doggin it.

I was expecting Anthony to be waaaaaay more played out of pocket than he is, he must be up to something covert........

I posted yesterday, but will say again I am supportive of the deal (for what thats worth!!) and look forward to seeing Justin in a Kings jersey.

I have been of the opinion that POS was rather soft and you (or I) just KNEW that when he skated into the offensive zone he would peel back and try to pass (rather than take it to the net) or fire one from the top of the faceoff circle that more often than not would sail wide and not even count as a shot on net and certainly not a scoring opportunity. I haven't seen his interview, and though I'm not a big fan of his (I'll leave that for Anthony) I wish him well in Edmonton.

Someone earlier mentioned Mollers goal in our losing effort in C-Bus Tuesday, I saw the game and loved that goal, the little guy got in there, hung in there, took his lumps and scored a goal. A shift or two before that, he skated the puck in (towards the goal) went behind and then back to the crease, didnt score on that one, but was fearless (and fast). Really glad he's back and healthy and playing the system the coaches have put in place.

Pass me some more Kool Aid.

ps gents-Todays ACL replacement surgeries are down right good. In many respects the new ACL is stronger than the original. So I dont see this as a problem as long as it is 12-18 months removed from the original trauma. However I dont think you will see these guys play until their late 30s. Heatley had an ACL replacement did he not???

AMEN Brent, my thoughts exactly, particularly the part about the "cards." Of course its a bummer to give up on a 24 year old with such potential, but I feel like this year was kinda an audition for him. When you're signed to a 3 year 3 mil contract, you're probably expected to do a little more than what POS did this year. I sincerely hope he goes on to a stellar career and shoves it in DL's face, but at this point, I don't think it would unless the reason for him not producing was total lack of chemistry between linemates, but overall, I can't blame DL.

Basically this has all been said before, but, JW may be a total flop, but he might not be; he's had a couple really great seasons, some ok seasons, and some really bad injuries. So, its a total gamble, DL's betting he turns out healthy, breaking hands is probably kind of a fluke incident, but "back problems" can be vague and recurrent and that is more distressing to me that an ACL.

Lastly, I can't stand the theatrics of some of the commenters! So many people make it sound as though this one trade has sealed our doom for the next century. I know Kings fans have been through the some of the most god awful BS, and how much I love my team, but I'm going into with the expectation that DL is really looking for the best interest of the team, and given his track history with SJ, I don't mind giving him some leeway and seeing what happens. It's really not in our hands anyway, and I'm going to watch the Kings whether or not they win or lose, but yeah, I'm all for winning sooner than later.

I have no problem with the draft except we should get the second round pick instead because william is injury and how can we trade for a guy that is on IR. SO KINGS MANAGEMENT IS THIS MEAN WE THROW IN THE TOWEL FOR THIS SEASON BECAUSE YOUR TEAM NEED OFFENSE PLAYER AND YOU TRADE AN OFFENSE AND GET A GUY THAT IS HURT AND WON HELP YOUR TEAM TO TRY TO MADE THE PLAYOFF RUN. SO I HAVE TO THINK FOR BRING MISERY TO US KINGS FAN AGAIN. NOW DISMISS DEANO

Is it wrong that I'm more frustrated about the 2nd round pick more than the player being traded? That's like trading a newer model Lexus for a 4 year old BMW with major mechanical problems but the one getting the BMW has to throw in a new speaker system.

Let's stop all the fuss over POS. This kid IMO, wasn't happy here and anyone with any sense could see it in his game. He had three more points than Kyle Quincey and made $2 mil more a year. He was a holdout at the beginning of the season and was rewarded with a decent contract considering he only played one full season. One would think that after all the dust settled and the papers were signed, this kid would be busting his ass for this team. Didn't happen and wasn't going to. Kopi finally woke up to the fact that his future on the Kings depended on his performance. Sully didn't. You can't have guys like Brown, Stoll, Quincey and a couple others busting their ass every night and getting lackluster output from a guy with Sully's ability. It doesn't set well in the gut. So now he's gone and Williams is here and he plays right wing and so does Brownie. If I recall, Brownie also played left wing and can and will do so if necessary. Everyone wanted a big named player and was ready to send Fro packing for him. Williams isn't a marquis player but he's proven his abilities and has had some injuries. Hell, Buffalo gave Connolly $9 mil for two years because they feel he's worth it when he's healthy. Let's give this guy his chance here before judgement is passed.

Sorry, you're wrong. in the offseason, JW costs MORE. a healthy JW is a superior player to Patrick and his "potential" at the age of 24.

That's so plain to see that it's sad it needs explaining.

Edmonton was pissed that the Kings were getting JW in the deal. They know him intimately from 2006. They know he's a beast. They would have taken him over Patty if they could have. They didn't know what was coming back for the Kings in exchange for OSullivan.

Rich,

Any idea when Justin Williams arrives in LA if he is not already here? I exhaustively searched the net for quotes from Justin, but didn't see anything on his reaction to the deal.

The (repeated) comments about Moller are telling, I think. Note that Moller has put up approx. as many goals/game as POS this year. I think DL is confident that Moller (and Purcell, etc.) are more his type and make POS expendable.

anybody having luck finding comments from Williams on the trade, when he is coming to LA, when he looks to be able to play again, etc?

The way Dean spoke about Frolov has me convinced he wont be around by the time his current deal is up. I can see Jack Johnsons contract negotiations pulling an O'Sullivan and hes not at training camp next season.

How did Leclaire (IR) and a 2nd go to OTT and LA had to give up a 2nd for injured player?

Here is a good example (I think) of the difference between POS and Willy.

Watch this goal by JW:
http://kings.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20082009,2,462&event=CAR43&fr=false

Now here's the difference. If POS ends up with that puck all alone at the side of the net, he's shooting and trying to pick the corner.

You saw what JW did, he took it to the front of the net and forced it through.

JW Paid the price to score. POS is talented, but JW is a one notch upgrade. POS could be this when he is 27, but we need a guy like this in the locker room NOW to make all our young guys like him in 4 years.

This trade is making more sense, it's now just a matter of risk. We'll see how Willy does when he comes back.

Anthony...
Since Cammy is having an unbelievable season for Calgary, I'm assuming they will be signing him long term after the season? NOT!
Why are players like that Rental players? They are hired mercenaries looking for the big payday. He's very good player, but not a "team" guy.
McTavish..great coach? Chances are hwe'll be available after the season when Edmonton doesn't win. That's where great coaches are usually found...on the unemployment line.
Also, I don't need my GM giving me honest updates as to the deals going on. That's none of our business. We need to know who got traded...who we get, and his reasoning behind the moves...
THAT"S ALL WE'RE ENTITLED TO AS FANS!

Perhaps DL made this trade because he thinks next year is when the Kings will be serious contenders. He's picking up a guy who is in his prime and has been a winner. If he's healthy (big "if" with any player)his upside is much higher than Sully's...at least in the next few years..when we're trying to win the cup. That makes the trade a no-brainer. As far as the 2nd round pick...I guess Williams value is much higher than any of us thought. I'll defer to DL's expertise in this field..so should all of you. He knows more than any of us...actually he knows more than all of us combined.
He at least deserves the benefit of the doubt. If the trade fails, then he's open to criticism.

Does anyone really think Hemsky and Sully will be able to get open space against the top teams during the playoffs? They play small and non physical...things that don't work in the playoffs.
In the meantime a guy like Moller bgets meaningful minutes as a top 6 forward...not too shabby for a guy just out of juniors. Let's hope he runs with the opportunity. The experience will be huge going into next year when we'll be contenders.

I'm going the other way with all of these so-called Kings "loyalists", who say this was the best thing to happen since sliced bread.

How about...

Sully+Hickey/Teubert/Boyle+1st for Spezza?
Sully+Hickey/Teubert/Boyle+1st for Heatley?
Sully+Hickey/Teubert+Boyle+1st, Flames 2nd for Kovalchuk?
What about making a huge bid for Hossa?

We could also go lower in talent, but still fill holes:
Sully+1st for Franzen?
Sully+2nd for Filpula?

These guys are all winners, and without the injuries.

Stop being apologists for the management, and realize what's taken place. We lost a guy that can definitely score, is young, can skate, has a long career ahead of him, and was signed for several years.

It's a pipe dream, at best, to sit here and say Williams will be healthy and playing for years to come. I hope he is, but given his and our track record with injury-prone players, you have to wonder where this trade will leave us in the long-term.

Ersberg,

I understand your point but I think that rightly or wrongly, DL specifically wanted Williams rather than just someone of his genre. Deadline day is a matter of opportunity... teams looking at the short term (playoff) horizon aren't that concerned with the number of years left on guys' contracts. Summer trades tend to be more about matching money and years, and bidding on upper-middle level free agents obviously gets a little over the top at times, as all Kings fans know... no names required.

Course that said, I'm surprised that DL had to throw in that pick. If it was something conditional / contingent on games played next year I'd be a little more comfortable. Hopefully the medical due diligence was thorough.

JDM said: The LA Kings though, are better off with another leader in the line-up/locker room, especially at forward than they are a young guy.

Absofinglutely. One more and we're in business.

JDM said: I have a good feeling Williams will not hesitate to get on Brown's case if he's not out there playing physical.

Are you sure you don't mean Kopitar or Frolov and not Brown? I would love that (jw getting on their case).

Anthony...(a.k.a. chicken little)

I think its cute that you try to use terms you picked up like "umbrella system". Its a good try. But the umbrella isn't a system. Its a powerplay strategy (which has been very effective lately). Its very different than the 5-5 system the kings play. Which is more of a staggered 1-2-2. but nice try...I bet ducks fans woulda thought you were smart. Overall, its the same thing over and over, you think the sky is falling, yet every indicator shows improvement. Quit whipping the dead horse. its old.

How will this trade will pan out in the long run? It could go either way. But DL made a very important point about POS fitting in. As great as he is, and as bright as his future may be, the Kings couldn't find a permanent line combination with him. They are acknowledging what we have complained about here. They know the lines should be more consistent. This is a move to try and develop that consistency. I like the motives here...now its just about Williams delivering. If he does, this deal won't sting a bit, I'm sure.

BigA-Thanks for the comments. I'm just trying to see the value of it all. Sully has yet to have a real go at a system he's played in for more than 1 season. I know there are issues with him, obviously more than the management wanted to deal with, but you can't deny his value.

And "Ersberg"-I disagree with you. if anything JW would probably cost loss, becuase there's nothing to gain from having him start in the off-season. Ie. We're not getting him for a playoff run.

It's truly amazing to see what people feel an oft injured, ex-goal scorer is valued at, and troubling to see that you feel this injury-prone player is better than a guy that's at the beginning of his career that has proven he can score. Amazing.

Edmonton was pissed, were they? I'm reading all over(Edmonton sports writers, HFboards, TSN comments) that fans are fired up they got Sully, because he can do what we seem lack: SCORE.

I hope you guys are right, but I can't help but think I'm not wrong.

Why do you people insist on believing other teams want Boyle? He has NO value.

Honestly, it is pretty obvious the majority of you bashing Williams and calling him Injury-prone are the same guys that judge a player by his tsn page. How about watching other teams once in awhile?

Fake Anthony, re Boyle:

He has some value, but (I agree with what I assume you're referring to) not as a big part of an imaginary trade for Spezza or Heatley.

Ersberg, re Spezza/Heatley:

I think it's likely that (1) those guys aren't DL type players (even though I would like Heatley, myself); and (2) likely that DL has his sights set on Hossa or Franzen in the offseason (whichever one Holland is not able to sign). Therefore, why give up an asset when you can bring someone in for cash only?

Seriously, look just behind the horizon on this one:

Frolov/Kopitar/Hossa
Purcell/Stoll/Williams
Lewis/Moller/Brown
Cliche/Handzus/Simmonds

just a thought

Ersberg

Sully's numbers this year 14 goals 23 assists 37 points in about 60 games...That's a goal scorer?
Otehr than in the AHL, when did SUlly become a proven goal scorer?

Yes, he has some value, but to throw him into these deals for big name players is absolutely crazy.

Quisp-

I hear you, I was trying to point out to the masses there are other fish in the sea other than Williams. Those said players would cost us roughly the same in a trade, again, with no serious injury history.

Franzen and Filp are definitely are type of guys.

I'm not really surprised this happened. hopefully Williams can come back soon and establish himself as an offensive force with this team. his age (27) is good. I think if he were even 1 or 2 years older, this trade never happens.

giving up the 2nd rounder was a bummer but oh well, we still have two more this year. Dean did what he had to do to upgrade us offensively from O'Sullivan.

I was one of his biggest proponents last season, but lately it really seems like Sully wasn't really doing anything out there. he was starting to seem like an enigma with this team.

Quisp - Well said. The "Philadelphia" concept that's being imported here is essentially a tight-knit room of guys who develop their own distinct identity and are equally comfortable and physical at both ends of the ice, down the middle, in the corners, in front of the net, and yes, in the alley too.

Anthony - I'm going to assume that you are a Kings fan and that you enjoy the sport of ice hockey. But if deep down you are really, truly this unhappy with the direction that the Kings are taking under Lombardi? Maybe you should do yourself a favor and give some serious consideration to switching your allegiance to another team. From what I can see, being a Kings fan isn't fun for you any more and hasn't been a source of enjoyment for a long time. And if all you're getting out of being a Kings fan is source material for chronic message board rage, maybe switching to a new team might get you on back the road to actually enjoying the sport of hockey again. Because that, at the end of the day, is the point of being a hockey fan, isn't it?

Nyking-

Frolov-26
Brown-23
Kopster-21
Stoll-16
Sully-14

Yes, he's a goal scorer. He was on the third line a great amount of the season, which means less ice time. You have to remember these guys were playing Terry's new sytem this season. Some probably had to make greater adjustments in their game. Kopi was a very difficult time with it at the beginning, but he came around.

Remember that goal Sully scored against the Ducks? Pure beauty. That was goal scorers goal.

How many does Williams have? 3

For whoever mentioned the fact that we will go after Ryan Clowe.. Not to break your heart, but he's a RFA at the end of the year, and I know that we have cap space, but how do you know DL would sign him to an offer sheet? I know he drafted the guy and all, but I doubt DL is one of those GMs..

Quisp,
The thing I would absolutely hate the most is seeing Dustin Brown on the 3rd line.. You forgot to mention Brad Richardson, who would take Marc Andre Cliche's spot, (who had a good game last night).. I expect Trevor Lewis/Teddy Purcell and Oscar Moller full time here, and Simmonds..

Frolov-Kopitar-Gaborik
Williams-Stoll-Brown
Purcell-Moller-Lewis
Richardson-Handzus-Simmonds

Doughty-Johnson
Quincey-Komisarek
Harrold-Greene
O'Donnell

Quick
Ersberg

Wow VOR, great, great comment towards "THE BIG A" (maybe he can head down that way????) How much does it cost for an hour on your couch?!?!?!?!

Let's forget the if's ands or but discussions here, the bottom line with O'Sullivan was he held out for training camp, wanting a new deal, and even though he really improved his all around play especially defense, he has not scored with the same touch as he did in juniors or with Minnesota/Houston.

Williams is a player Terry Murray is familiar with, and if he is healthy, a very experienced forward, having been to the playoffs and won a cup with Carolina.

You don't even want to start talking about Spezza for anyone, the kid has already been in trouble for alleged cocaine use. He's a good player, but has gone completely AWOL during the playoffs.

Ottawa isn't going to cough up Heatley, and as much as I would love to see Marian Hossa not Marcel, that is not going to happen also.

The next area of need for the Kings will be a bonifide sniper, and one word sums up what the Kings should put on the top of their list during the draft Kovalchuk!

Kovalchuk is one of the most feared snipers in all the NHL. Atlanta is one of the teams, which as much as they would like to keep a Kovalchuk, are in need of restocking their franchise, especially on the backend with questions in goal, and no depth on defense.

Lehtonen seems to be the player who is going to be shopped in the off season, as the Thrashers have Pavlec ready to step-in as a number one, while they could use another goalie to cultivate or challenge Hedberg, which is where the Kings have something to offer in the way of Zatkoff/Taylor/Ersberg/Quick/Bernier. Even Martin Jones of the Calgary Hitmen is putting up unbelieveable numbers in net at 42-4-4 with a 2.12 GAA and 5 shutouts.

With the stockpile of defense the Kings have now, Hickey/Teubert/Voynov/Drewiske along with forwards Bryan Cameron/Dwight King/Andrei Lokionov/Geordie Wudrick and potential picks this year, the Kings have plenty of young players to offer a team going in a new direction like Atlanta which could also be used to make a strong offer for Kovalchuk.

The upcoming draft, should see one or more significant moves made by the Kings to add that extra offensive sniper, which could be that missing piece which will help the Kings make the transition from potential playoff team, to Top 4 contender in the Western Conference.

I like this move for the future of the franchise, and also to position the Kings as one of the major buyers this offseason to address some needs which could push them over the bubble, straight back into the playoffs.

Los Angeles is itching to have a winning hockey team again, and the Kings seem to be very determined to bring hockey back to SoCal after it's been missing for years due to failure and poor perfromance.

Look out Anaheim, SoCal now has a new sheriff in town, the Los Angeles Kings are back!

Dave: Thanks for the props. But my comments to Anthony were just applications of basic of common sense, which I'm more happy to share for free in this kind of situation.

Here's a secret: You can gain a reputation for having wisdom by merely telling people what they already know.

AK47-not saying we will go after, just referring to the type of player he is. As is Franzen in the same mold. Dont think we need a Gabby at 7+ etc if Williams sheds his bad luck (might start by changing his number from 11), and adds 20+ goals along with Kopi, Brownie, Fro, Moller and maybe even Stoll. Franzen or Clowe (didnt know about the RFA-but SJ is a little strapped at the cap) would be great on the 3rd with zues and Simmonds. Expecting Simmonds to get 10 red lights next year. Dont think he will top 15 in a year, but great energy, team and responsible player.

Well, DL just "sharted," IMO.

Horrible player management. There's no need to trade a promising young 24 year old for a player like Williams. Williams-types are available every summer in the FA market.

Some of the comments on here prove that there's an "old-school/new-school" disconnect amongst the fans. Those, like me, who are pessimistic about how DL does business have to accept that this team is the PROPERTY of AEG and DL and that they simply own a hockey team that we can choose to take an interest in, or not. There's really no use kicking and screaming, no use for the sound and the fury. We either enjoy watching the team play, or we don't.

I've had some fun following the Kings this season, but really the process is almost complete. DL has his hardcore, kool-aid, scientologistic followers and his trigger-finger, hang 'em high doubters. I'm actually close to not really caring, anymore. I don't know if that's good or bad.

But from as neutral a position as I can muster, this trade seems like an error. Williams may come and be a pretty darn good player for the Kings under the Philly-osophy of Terry Murray, but he also is just a glorified Kyle Calder, in many ways. He's got some decent seasons under his belt, but were they the result of playing on a contender? In front of a defense with Commodore, Wesley, Kaberle, Ward, and Co., and while skating with Brind'Amour, Staal, Weight, Recchi, Whitney, and the other Carolina cup winners?

Some on here continue to try and read the mind of Lombardi and predict all his moves beforehand (going to trade Preissing, getting ready to trade Calder, doesn't like hold-outs [o'sullivan was never a hold-out, he was locked out of camp], going to sign Hossa [yeah, he's just dying to play in LA], sending a message to Brown and Kopitar [what kind of threat is getting traded FROM a perennial loser?], getting the best of the other GM's [Carolina just got it's revenge for the JJ trade, and Edmonton just got done helping kill off Anaheim and is setting its sights on dominating LA])

Can't anyone see that this is PURE Dean Lombardi?

In SJ he drafted in the top 3 overall three times. He had 7 first round draft picks in his time there:

1996: Andrei Zyuzin (second overall) & Marco Sturm (21st overall)
1997: Patrick Marleau (2nd overall) & Scott Hannan (23rd overall)
1998: Brad Stuart (third overall)
1999: Jeff Jillson (14th overall)
2000: None
2001: Marcel Goc (20th overall)
2002: Mike Morris (27th overall)

In about '99 DL started trading youth for vets, Marchment, Damphousse, Graves, McLaren, etc., kind of abandoning the youth movement.

What is stunning to me, however, is that he devalued o'sullivan so much in his own mind that he was only able to work this trade out by including a draft pick as well. On top of that he's lied to his local blog-manager (rich) and had his coach lie about expecting trades. I understand that a GM has to play his cards close to his chest, but you don't have to lie to anyone. You can simply state that its not open for discussion at the moment (i warned you Hammond).

My hope is that Kopitar, Brown, and Frolov (the heart of this team - not DL and Murray) get an able teamate (handi-capable) that can help them improve and achieve the great things they are capable of achieving. I think its unfortunate that another skilled asset has been alienated by the "old-school, I'm the father you're the kid - keep your mouth shut" Philly-osophy of LomMurray (who is the "WE" DL is referring to?).

As far as the speculation from some of the "thinkers" on these blogs, if DL is trying to send a message, he's obviously got his signals crossed. LA, by his own admission, is a place that its hard to lure players to. It doesn't make it any easier to lure players when you sign players to a contract and ship them off willy-nilly a few months later. What FA wants that sort of environment? As far as our own draftees, well, it just seems that you get more BEFORE you actually contribute to the team. DL has no problem throwing money at his projects (Zus, Preiss, Calds, Stoll, Greene, Doughty, Nagy, Clouts) but the guys who've actually been in the trenches for the Los Angeles Kings simply get themselves into DL's doghouse (which makes about as much sense as TM's doghousing).

AK, re Richardson/Brown:

Yes, I agree on both points. But, the thing is, the ideal 3rd line is a Brown kind of line. Not that he's not a top-six guy; it's a matter of the kind of (ideal) lines you're shooting for. The lines I described are an attempt to put together a roster of four lines that all get substantial minutes; the kind of thing TM was talking about at the beginning of the season, but which didn't work out because we didn't have the 1st line or the 4th line players to pull it off.

Look at it this way. A team with Handzus and Stoll on it is going to give those guys a lot of ice-time, if only because of their face-off abilities. So there's simply no way you could have a third/fourth line combo centered by those guys and not give them lots of time. You could esaily swap the numbers of the lines, and I almost did, but I could hear people freaking out that J. Williams was a third line winger.

Frolov/Kopitar/Hossa
Lewis/Moller/Brown
Purcell/Stoll/Williams
Cliche/Handzus/Simmonds

A couple of comments on this imaginary line-up. Detroit has major cap issues, and I (having looked at their numbers for next year) don't see how the Wings can keep both Franzen and Hossa. I was talking with my brother (die-hard Wings fan) about this yesterday, and I think I might have made him cry. Anyway, Hossa/Franzen on the right side is a definite UFA possibility. So, in this thought experiment, lets just say Hossa is a big splashy off-season signing.

Your right wings are therefore: Hossa, Williams, Brown, Simmonds. Next on the depth chart on the right side are Moller (a natural center), Purcell (who can play off-wing) and Cliche (a defensive specialist who, p.s. had a Gordie Howe hattrick in his last game, three goals and a fight). So, right wing would be -- um -- kind of solid.

Centers: Kopitar, Moller, Stoll, Handzus. (Next in depth: Lewis [also a winger], Boyle, Loktionov, Azevedo.) So we're set there, too.

Left Wing: Frolov, Lewis, Purcell, Cliche (depth: Clune, Wudrick.) You're basically subtracting Calder and adding Lewis and Cliche (two veeeeery responsible defensive forwards with offensive skill). And subtracting POS and adding Purcell.

And I haven't mentioned Richardson, Zeiler or Ivanans. I think Richardson will battle the other rookies (Purcell, Cliche, Lewis) for spots, to keep them honest. Zeiler, I don't know what happens to him. I still hope Clune out-Zeilers him. Ivanans, I am similarly stumped. I frankly think that a fourth line of Cliche/Handzus/Simmonds is more valuable than a big orbiting holding penalty.

Now, the Hossa/Franzen possibility (or whatever big UFA you want to discuss) is the "put the Kings over the top" option. Since it would also put the Kings to the top of the cap, it's only worth doing if the Kings get that coveted 40/50-goal sniper guy. Otherwise, I think DL stands pat.

The thing that everyone should be happy about is that this is move (the Williams/POS trade) a GM makes if he's making his move to compete legitimately as a playoff contender, now. Of course, by "now" I mean, not this year.

Ersberg -

Man too bad you weren't our GM, it seems like whatever trade you dream up, it would be SURE thing that the GM on the other end of the deal would go for it..you should have just called DL and said, "Hey, I know FOR A FACT that the Ottawa GM would take O'Sullivan and either Hickey, Teubert or Boyle and a 1st rounder for Spezza or Heatly. Oh he said no? Well then just call the Atlanta GM, throw in the Flames 2nd rounder and we can get Kovalckuk..No again?..jeez I thought I had this all figured out on a message board...."

Ersberg

Kopitar has been playing up to his full potential since the start of the 2nd half. Sully hasn't shown a consistant scoring touch all year. If it's because he can't pick up the system, than why keep him? He's just going to continue to struggle and get increasingly frustrated.

Sully has more skill than a lot of players in this league. He scored some goals that were things of beauty. He just didn't do it enough.
Our biggest problem this season has been goal scoring. If he's a pure goal scorer, those numbers certainly don't show it.
As far as the lines he's played on, the leading goal scorer on the team played the majority of the games on the "checking" line with Zeus and Simmonds. That can't be the reason for not scoring. My point is that you can't have your pure goal scorer being the 5th leading goal scorer on a team that can't score.
Maybe he turns it around in Edmonton, but that doesn't mean it would have gotten better here.
This team needs to score some dirty goals...Sully wasn't going to get you those type of goals.

src, re cap numbers and signings:

Let's look at what you described above. I'm going to condense your comments into a list with the numbers you gave:

two vet forwards for third and fourth line -- $7MM
Calder -- $1.5MM
Chris Neil -- $2MM
[waive Ivanans]
[let Gauthier walk]
re-sign Johnson
CAP HIT $48-49MM

Those are your numbers. Let's look.

You've got $10MM (per above) tied up in four third/fourth line forwards.

I'm going to put the Johnson figure at $3MM. Frolov is already signed for next year, so that's a non issue. $13MM total so far.

Waiving Ivanans save you (at best) $600K. So, generously, you're at $12.4MM.

Everyone else who is already signed for next year: $42MM. Add your $12.4MM. Now we're at $54.4MM. About three million below this year's cap, which is probably coming down.

And what's our line-up?

Frolov/Kopitar/Williams
Purcell/Stoll/Brown
MOller/Handzus/Simmonds
vet#1/vet#2/Chris Neil
Calder, Zeiler, Richardson

Doughty/Johnson
Quincey/Greene
Harrold/SOD

Quick and Ersberg

Now, several things jump out at me about this. (1) that's only 23 players, so we would have to sign someone, a defenseman. So bring your total up to $55.5. Unless it's Hickey or someone else with bonuses, in which case you're almost certainly over the cap; (2) You're going to have to trade or waive a forward. Let's say Zeiler. Okay, that will save you half a mil. So now you're down to $55. (3) There is no cap room at all here, under your model. You will have basically spent all your resources bringing in players for your third/fourth lines, instead of addressing the team need of scoring. (4) No room for any of the kids; Lewis, for example. Lewis and Cliche (to pick two names) are certainly better options for the Kings than adding relatively expensive veterans to the third line.

As it is, right now, the Kings will be around $47-48MM, without making any UFA signings. I think it's reasonable to assume DL will not approach the cap ceiling for anything less than a Hossa/Franzen (Kovalhuckhaha etc.) kind of addition.

Regarding Cloutier, this wasn't DL, it was Marc Crawford, he dragged this guy with him, some sort of lifelong pact. Crawford was gone because he wouldn't tank the remainder of the season to move-up one more space in the 08 entry draft.
Regardless the Kings got the best player to fit their needs.
What DL did in San Jose is past history, and regardless, at least that team was in the playoffs and then they acquired that Thornton from Boston (one of the best trades ever for SJ, one of the worst for BOS).
He knew how to draft goalies, and has done exactly this with LA.
The makeup of this LA Kings team and it's direction are now in place, and all that is needed are a few key acquisitions of a sniper and possibly an enforcer or agitator, bring back Laffi, he's perfect, and will chip in a few goals in addition to being the pest on the ice. And his salary shouldn't be a deal buster.
Manhattan Beach is a nice place to live when you are a King!
Franzen and Hossa are most likely not coming to LA, and between the two Hossa is the more well rounded. Franzen has been injury prone, and although Hossa is now sufferring from neck issues, I'd steer clear,as this could potentially be a chronic issue.
JW has a busted hand, he'll be fine, and POS in Edmonton will be great he can play with Sam Gagner and they can become the London Knights of old.
Spezza is a cancer, again off ice issues, do a little work to find out about Spezza and you will see you want nothing to do with him.
Ottawa has their own issues, and the BIG 3 are untouchable and should stay there.
KOVALCHUK is the answer!

Regarding Cloutier, this wasn't DL, it was Marc Crawford, he dragged this guy with him, some sort of lifelong pact. Crawford was gone because he wouldn't tank the remainder of the season to move-up one more space in the 08 entry draft.
Regardless the Kings got the best player to fit their needs.
What DL did in San Jose is past history, and regardless, at least that team was in the playoffs and then they acquired that Thornton from Boston (one of the best trades ever for SJ, one of the worst for BOS).
He knew how to draft goalies, and has done exactly this with LA.
The makeup of this LA Kings team and it's direction are now in place, and all that is needed are a few key acquisitions of a sniper and possibly an enforcer or agitator, bring back Laffi, he's perfect, and will chip in a few goals in addition to being the pest on the ice. And his salary shouldn't be a deal buster.
Manhattan Beach is a nice place to live when you are a King!
Franzen and Hossa are most likely not coming to LA, and between the two Hossa is the more well rounded. Franzen has been injury prone, and although Hossa is now sufferring from neck issues, I'd steer clear,as this could potentially be a chronic issue.
JW has a busted hand, he'll be fine, and POS in Edmonton will be great he can play with Sam Gagner and they can become the London Knights of old.
Spezza is a cancer, again off ice issues, do a little work to find out about Spezza and you will see you want nothing to do with him.
Ottawa has their own issues, and the BIG 3 are untouchable and should stay there.
KOVALCHUK is the answer!

ETR

You know I have to disagree with you. It wouldn't be right if I didn't.
I'm not going to go thru all of your points because its all opinion. I'm a big DL/TM fan, you're not. Nobody's right or wrong at this point.

I refuse to believe that you don't care. If you didn't care, you would become normal (unlike the rest of us) and find something better to do with your time than read this blog every waking moment while you're on the computer....like the rest of us losers LOL

One point you made that Williams is a glorified Calder. To be honest, I would love to have a Goal scoring version of Calder on this team. If he had anything other than hands of stone, he'd be a top 6 forward.

On the Philly connection with DL and TM....Philly has been as successful a franchise as LA has been a failure. If we become another Flyer type franchise, we'll all be doing cartwheels. They had one year where they were one of the worst teams in hockey. Look how quickly they became dominant again? Would anyone not sign up for that?
If you're going to raid players that came thru the Flyers organization, there's a lot worse you can do.

Tantrum-

That was some good roleplaying. Shall I have a go with you being the GM on the OTHER side of the coin?

"Hi, GM Tantrum here. I heard you have some broken bridges for sale?"

GM2: "Sure do". "What are you offering?"

Tantrum: "Nice, I'll give you Sully+2nd"

GM2: "Hmm, I don't know, this is one of hell-of-a broken bridge".

Tantrum: "Damn, well, I feel this is a fair deal for your broken-down, ex-high goal-scoring, no-gurantee he'll ever have decent legs/back/hands/ass/hair again broken bridge, you sure you can't do it?"

GM2: "Hold on a sec" ....
"You know, we can do it"...

Gotta watch those shoes on the other feet, Tantrum. Cheers.

NYKfan -

If Williams turns out to be a goal scoring Calder, good for the Kings. I don't dislike Williams, but I dislike trading the young O'Sullivan like this.
Like I said, I believe these types of players are available through free-agency.
The worry with Williams, beyond the injuries, for me is his true level of talent.
He's a hard worker from what I've seen (mostly in the finals against Edmonton), but are some of his point totals in a sense inflated by playing on teams that were doing well and had a certain brand of talent.
My worry with the Philly-osophy is that its a dinosaur's approach.
The Kings will become a tough team to play against, but is that the model for success in the "new" NHL.
The Ducks were able to become a dynamic team and win a cup, but they had immense amounts of talent as well. They could play it any way you wanted.
I think the Kings could eventually become like that, but that it will take about 3 more years. Is that too long to gamble on? What if it all starts to backfire 4 years into it?
Lombardi is a contradiction.
He criticizes former regimes for trading away young talent (jokinen), and yet he's doing the very same things. It's truly ironic that on this night 2 former Kings draft picks helped Jerome Iginla ice a hockey game in which the Flames were without Bourque, Bertuzzi, and Langkow (if I heard correctly).

I just don't like much of what Lombardi does outside of the abilities I've seen in his draft picks.
Once again I feel he's been bested in a trade.
Once again I feel he's undervalued some pretty green talent.
Lombardi seems to be unsure of himself and kind of lost when it comes to the market, IMO.
We've traded a legion of players and I'm not seeing much consistency from the team. It's Jeckyll and Hyde.

I'd just say that the role-model of NHL success, detroit, allows the players to be the stars of the show. They're up front receiving the accolades for the success.
I feel that Holland and Babcock carry themselves in a way that is humble, as did Bowman.
They are showered with praise as well but direct the credit to the players on the ice.
They're a tough team to play against because they are like a family.
I don't get that sense from the Kings.
I get the feeling that its a Patriarchy where the two Dads discuss their boys behind closed doors, ready to cast them off in a heartbeat.
There is absolutely no loyalty, except to the Philly-osophy.

I guess if they turn into the Flyers, we'll be happy and entertained with playoff appearances, but how do we know that Lombardi has the wherewithal to achieve what Bobby Clarke achieves?

I don't know much of anything about how Lombardi played the game, or if he did.
I don't know Murray's reputation as a player, or even as a coach after 3/4 of a season with MY team.
I think he seems like a great person, but I don't know if I like his coaching style very much.
I like that they want players who are hard workers, but I don't think they have a clue as to how to motivate players of any other "type."
A profession hockey player doesn't get to the NHL and score goals without being competitive.
All any player needs is the right guy to bring greatness out of them.
Maybe I'm wrong, though.

In the end, I don't hate the trade, or Williams for what it does for the Kings, I hate it because it's a lie. We are supposed to be patiently building kids into Cup winners - not farming talent for the NHL.
I look around the NHL and see, like Williams, many Cup winners.
The funny part of that is that a percentage of them are former Kings, and maybe this year there will be a few more rings for former Kings.
Like:

Cammy
Jokinen
Blake
Stuart
Lilja
Parros
Sydor
Parrish
Sopel
Belanger
Huet
Boucher
Avery
Kostopolous
Garon?!?!
even Labs?!?!
Lubo
O'Sullivan
Grebeshkov

None may win a ring, but most are going to the playoffs.

Well, in the end - whatever.
I don't seem to be as surprised or frustrated at another move I don't like.
I would rather have seen Lombardi fire Murray for failing to make the playoffs with the players Lombardi gave him.

take care.

Eat-Again, I think the value is where the problem lies. A guy that can score+2nd? Come on. Trading a player is normal. Trading a player away for damaged product is just plain scary.