Mid-March approval ratings

They both got the thumbs down from the deadline up through today.

That Justin Williams trade factors deeply into my disapproval.

O'Sullivan AND a 2nd? Let's hope that Williams is able to perform.

I find it interesting that anyone could vote other than approve for both with the team at .500 in the middle of March and playing meaningful games this late in the season for the first time since....whenever.

My biggest issue with this team is its inability to convert in the "skills competition" that is the shootout. Imagine if they had simply converted in 5 of those 10 losses......

It will be nice to see Williams perform, but something tells me we haven't heard the last of the O'Sullivan moaning for a while.

"It will be nice to see Williams perform, but something tells me we haven't heard the last of the O'Sullivan moaning for a while."

Right, that's what it's called. Actually, it's called, "questionable judgement."

Disapprove
Disapprove

The DL thing was a no brainer. The last trade will go down in history as the bggest rip-off.

Anon: Keep on drinking the DL Kool-Aid.

approve
approve

The DL thing was a no brainer. The last trade will go down in history as one of the best Kings trades ever.

"The DL thing was a no brainer. The last trade will go down in history as the bggest rip-off."

I can't wait till you get to eat your words on this one. I am pretty sure you aren't a GM for a professional hockey team so I am certain you don't know more than Dean and his staff. Give it some time before you start going off...otherwise be prepared to eat your words.

There's only one way any contoversial trade will ever end up looking good by all the fans and that's if their team wins the Cup. I love keeping track of other teams management of players and I recall thinking Jay Feaster was high as a kite making most of the deals he made to build that club into a Stanley Cup champion, but at the end of the day it was worth it because they all have Stanley Cup rings (granted the Lightning could have set themselves up better for the future, but isn't a championship what it's all about?). If the Kings eventually win the Cup and Justin Williams is a factor Lombardi will look like a genius, but if they don't and O'Sullivan takes a mjor leap forward as a player Lombardi will look like a tool.

Anthony,

While I do not agree with your double disapproval, I think you are right on with your assessment that the "last trade will go down in history as the
b[i]ggest rip-off." Williams will score 40 or more next year, and O'Sullivan will whine his way out of Edmonton and, eventually, the entire NHL. Sully is no Cammy. DL will look every bit the genius he is next year when Kopitar, Brown, Frolov, Stoll, Handzus, Johnson, Greene, Doughty, Quick, AND Williams lead the Kings into the NHL Playoffs.

Oh, and don't give me the crap about DL acquiring injured players; Handzus and Stoll are working out pretty well this year. Williams will be no different next year.

I truly hope, Anthony, that you will be eating crow all next year. However, I resign myself to continuing to have to read your wholly negative rants all summer long.

Until then... Go Kings Go!

You guys are dreaming.
Williams best days are gone.
He'll average 10-15 goals at best.
This season, he's averaging 1 goal every 11 games.
But he's an Flyer. So that makes it OK for management.
Pathetic.

Best days behind him, Anthony? The guy is only 27! You talk like we got a 37 year old.

Anthony, did you ever see Williams play before the trade? Or are you just cherry picking stats to suit your argument?

By the way, Sully has 1 goal in six games for the Oil. You would have labeled him a bust by now if he had come to the Kings in a trade.

Anthony is right. DL definitely took the longshot odds on this trade, and the odds go are fully in favor of those who oppose and/or question the trade.

Again, you can't compare Stoll and Zus' injuries, due to important factors:

1) Neither of those players have had the exact same, and often career ending surgery.

2) They will not play the same roll that Williams is expected to play.

With regards to the deal, it's not moaning, pissing, or ranting you're hearing. What you're hearing is a true concern for the outlook of this team.

Williams injury history is 100% on-par with those players that LA has aquired in years passed, soon followed by an early retirement.

anthony said:

You guys are dreaming.
Williams best days are gone.
He'll average 10-15 goals at best.
This season, he's averaging 1 goal every 11 games.
But he's an Flyer. So that makes it OK for management.
Pathetic.

I am going to make sure I save this for future anthony bashing.

He is 27 and his best days are gone? I am fairly certain that a he will find a great of success playing with guys like Frolov, Brown, Kopitar then he did with Carolina. We can use his grittiness and his size on the PP and at even strength when no one is willing to stand in front of the net. 10-15 goals? You are dreaming. I am willing to bet you felt exactly the same about Stoll when Dean acquired him and suddenly he is a 20 goal scorer and trust me, Williams has vastly more upside than Stoll.

96-96-97? Maybe a better question is 'do you approve or STRONGLY approve of DL's performance?'

A couple points:

First, to Alley regarding drinking the Kool Aid. I’m a fan of the Kings and want them to win. I agree with the direction DL’s taking the team so why wouldn’t I (or Anon, or other Kings fans) drink the Kool Aid? Isn’t the whole idea to want your team to win and root for them?

Second, to the resident naysayer. I am dreaming. I’m dreaming of the Kings in the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup. I think DL & TM will get us there. I think Williams has many more good years in him.

Let’s take a look at the Flyers since you are so obsessed with them. Came into the league the same year as the Kings. Have won 2 Cups. Been in 5 other Finals. Perennial playoff team. Went to the Eastern finals last year. By any measure a successful NHL franchise. Isn’t that what you want the Kings to be? A successful NHL team.

I don’t understand why you look at everything negatively.

Everyone knows a broken finger means you have to retire early due to injury.

Those numbers Williams put up in Carolina was in an easy division, in an easy conference.
You got Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay, Washington.
These teams play an open style hockey. Its a run and gun divsion.
Look at Eric Cole. I edmonton, he only scored 27 points. In Carolina, he's averaging more than a point a game.

The Kings division is tight checking.
Let your Mesiah, Justin Williams get a taste of San Jose, Anaheim, and Dallas - and their hard hitting style.
Since he's weak and injury prone, Williams will be back on the IR in no time.
Bank On It!

I remeber seeing a hockey poll on the Williams trade and something like 50% said Edmonton got the best part of the trade, 33% said Carolina did and less than 20% (you guys) said the Kings got the best part of the trade. I think that says something about the hockey I.Q. of you people.

NOT IMPRESSED said:
I remeber seeing a hockey poll on the Williams trade and something like 50% said Edmonton got the best part of the trade, 33% said Carolina did and less than 20% (you guys) said the Kings got the best part of the trade. I think that says something about the hockey I.Q. of you people.

Since when will any poll be in favor of something the Kings do. Let's look at the Oiler trade. I am sure everyone thought getting Stoll and Greene was lopsided for Edmonton as well. You can bet we easily got the better end of that deal. Let's just let the trade play out and see what happens.

FYI,
O'Sullivan only has one goal and one assist more than WIlliams since the trade.....

Negativity vs. Reality -- What the "house" is saying and what Anthony is saying:

"The Kings won't win tonight"

vs.

"Williams has a good chance of going on the IR again"

It should be self-explanatory.

Approve on both.

DL gets a player who's willing to battle it out and earn points.

TM gets major credit for keeping the team in the playoff race as long as it has been. TM taught them to play defense, but they need to show some talent and creativity to score some goals. You can only do so much in game when you're behind the bench.

Dom-

I'm only going to say it(from my perspective) this one last time:

It's not about Sully, it's about the value, and aquiring yet another player with an extensive injury history in Williams. I.e. heavily damaged product.

Not Impressed, re hockey poll:

What does it say?

Voice of Reason,
Looks like almost half (of this post) are with me.

Quisp:
Not Impressed, re hockey poll:

What does it say?

I think it was on NHL.com but it was a while ago and I can't find it anymore. Anyway, I really hope I'm wrong and the trade works out...but I wouldn't bet on it.

Exactly Dominic.
I've been reading some of the threads on the Edmonton site.
Almost every fan is excited about Sully. They all think that DL was on some sort of a narcotic when he traded Sully. Some, still can't believe that how lucky thaey are to get him.
They're not just expecting offense from him, but also defense.
They're impressed with Sully's back check and penalty killing.
He's on a new team and he started off playing on the 3rd line.
Now he's up with Ales Hemsky, so the offense will come.
What has Williams done for us thus far.
ZERO. NOTHING. NADA.
He's getting paid $3.5 million for sitting in the press box.
But he's an ex-flyer. So that's OK.

anthony said:
Voice of Reason,
Looks like almost half (of this post) are with me.

Really? You require acceptance THAT much?

Wasn't Anthony the same guy whining when the Kings traded Tambellini to the Islanders for rental players?

Meanwhile, in 3+ years Tambellini has scored 9 goals for the Isles while Sopel and Parrish scored a total of 9 goals during their short rental period for us.

IE (for the learning impaired) Anthony knows not what he's talking about.

The O'Sullivan trade has all upside and little downside for the Kings. If Williams returns to form, this is a major victory for Lombardi, if he doesn't, then Williams will only put up numbers comparible to O'Sullivan (nothing gained, nothing lost). And please, stop moaning about the 2nd round pick. You're crying over a player YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WOULD ULTIMATELY BE. If history is true to form, whoever we would have selected probably would never had made the team anyway.

I think I'll follow Rich's advice and bite my tongue (fingers?) re: Anthony's posts, at least today! I'm enjoying watching the Kings play this year, unlike last year, they are competitive and heading in the right direction as a team thanks to the coach and gm (and others).
DL is doing well picking up discounted players off the injured shelf too! Hey, one must bargain-shop for value in these tough economic times! )

Anthony--it's not the side you pick; it's the way you go about making an argument.

I'm not in love with the trade, but I'm not so clueless to think that DL acquired Williams because they both used to be involved in Philly.

One fact all that Anthony, Ersberg, Not Impressed and whoever Cristobal has decided to post as today are missing is. O'Sullivan is never injured because he never gets anywhere near where the action is or in front of the net. Perimeter Patty (thanks for the nickname Wavesnair) only throws checks between the blue lines and never drives to the middle. Whereas Williams has had injuries because he throws himself into the action. We will need players willing to do that when we do make the playoffs. Do any of you actually think that POS will pick up his level of play in playoffs??? Talk about drinking the Kool Aid. I'll take the long shot over a sure bet of continued mediocrity anyday.

Oh and one other thing, Anthony, so long as we're cherry picking evidence: the Southeast Division has produced two Cup winners in the last decade; the Pacific one. Ooohhhh!

anthony said:

Voice of Reason,
Looks like almost half (of this post) are with me.

Wow, I see your math skills are equal to your hockey knowledge.

I'm actually on the fence whether or not the Kings got the better end of the deal or the Canes or Oilers.

Care to know why I'm on the fence?

Because we haven't even seen Williams play with the Kings yet. Jesus H!!!

Williams might play all 82 games next season and O'Sullivan might tear his ACL in training camp. Who knows? Just my opinion, but let's give the guy a chance to shine. Look at Cloutier, but look at Handzus too. I hope Williams is the second coming of Adam Deadmarsh except without the early retirement.

Ersberg,
We traded potential for proven and in the process rid the team of a guy who held out, putting himself ahead of the team to be replaced by a major piece of a recent Stanley Cup winner.
I was initially upset by the trade but I am over it.

HB-

Hmm, was that Sully driving to the net, then AROUND the Duck d-man, for that beautiful goal in Anaheim?

Nope, it wasn't. I just watched the replay, it was Williams.

I approve of both although I don't like that last trade. We'll have to see what happens next year before we know if he wins or loses on that.

Anthony actually brings in an interesting point when he brings up the style of play of the two divisions. That combined with the last two years of williams playin 35 games and only having 10 goals and 3 goals in those years doesn't look good for him returning to 30 goal seasons.

Like I said, we just have to wait and see.

Darn it
Darn it
I tried to stay out of the Anthony bashing, was doing a commendable job until the "almost half are with me" comment. Ers does not count as 3.
Anthony, every single person here liked POS, but he was tried everywhere in the lineup and just did not seem to fit in. You are correct with the comment that the Kings play in a tough, hard hitting conference and division. Your reasoning is exactly why JW may very well be a better fit for the Kings. Is it guaranteed? Absolutely not, but it is a move that on paper could work out for us. The trade may be best for POS also.
One last point, if both are 25 goal scorers two years from now, which one would you want to try and sign?

Hey, I'm cool with giving the guy a chance to play. The question was whether or not we needed to do it at the deadline or at all.

We're stuck with him now. Lets just hope he kicks ass when he gets back, and stays healty, despite how we feel about it.

Also the trade has given Purcell a chance to play in O'Sullivan's spot on the top line. He is scoring at a point per game pace since the move and looks more confident with every game.

Brown - Kopitar - Purcell
Frolov - Stoll - Williams
Calder - Handzus - Simmonds
Moller - Armstrong - Westgarth

Dom-

Good point. Teddy needs stay here. Forever. Never to return to Manchester. Ever. Not in his lifetime.

Jeff,
Before ripping on Anthony you should check your facts. Even if you left Tambellini out of the trade with the Islanders moving Grebeshkov for an injured Sopel and rental Parrish was NOT a good trade and most Kings fans were furious when it happened.

Jared Aulin for Carter didn't hurt too much but it was a waste of an asset. Same with Tambellini who is finally starting to figure things out in the last month on Long Island.

What about...

Fro-Kop-Teddy

?

If we are going to base our opinion on a trade on what fans on an internet message board say then we clearly got the better of the Brad Richardson deal. Everybody who posted on the Av's board said that we were getting a great player and the JQ never gave him a fair chance.

He hasn't done much for us.

Anthony I think we need to give this deal some time before we pass too much judgement. GM's are paid to take risks.

Ersberg,
That would be my wet dream but Murray is obsessed with Browpitar, even if it means playing Brown out of position at left wing. But yes, I think that combination would be killer

Dom,

There was one good thing about the Tambellini/Grebeshkov trade... Sopel was traded for a draft pick that turned into Wayne Simmonds. And I've seen Tambellini play twice this season and I have to say I'm not impressed.

I think people need to leave Anthony alone. Gotta love his passion.

I didn't even know about this site when the Tambellini trade was made. So it wasn't me.

For the life of me, I don't unerstand the number of Lombardi and Murray worshipers on this site.
The amount of individuals who come to their rescue when somebody questions their moves.

Why this infatuation.
Does DL or TM put food on your tables?
Does DL or TM put clothes on your backs?
Does DL or TM pay your rents or mortgages.

So Why defend them so vigorously.

More cherry picking for you Anthony!

Dan Boyle; Olli Jokinen; Roberto Luongo; Marian Hossa. Just a few names who have made the transition from the SE division to the rest of the NHL.

Care to retort?

Irish Pat,
True. DL did a good job of salvaging an asset out of a bad trade. My point is that the original trade of Grebs and Tambs was ill-conceived. I don't blame DT - I blame ownership for that one by the way.

DL and TM don't put food on our tables - they put crack in our skulls. The Kings are a drug and I am addicted.

That is all.

Anthony, I am unconvinced. Therefore, let's all take this simple poll:

http://kwisp.wordpress.com

Quisp,
I'm honored.
You just made me blush Buddy.
But I'm not doing this to get attention.
I respect all oppinions on this site.
And even though get bashed. I'll not bash my fellow kings fans. I have too much respect for all of you.

If this team were better in shootouts we'd be a lot closer to being in the playoffs. We have won only four of twelve shootouts.

Quisp,

Outstanding as always!! Great poll. I chose Anthony agnostic. I actually like Anthony's posts. It's like Dom said- Anthony is just passionate about the Kings like the rest of us. I also like Anthony's sense of humor. Quisp, if you ever start a blog please let us know. And Dom, I really liked your line about the Kings being our crack. DL, TM are definitely the pushers.

I had to check it out since it was suggested above, here's Anthony's immediate reaction to the Stoll/Greene/Visnovsky trade:

anthony said:
Looks like DL is getting his act together.
This trade is awesome.
We get our second line center and a pretty good kick-ass D-Man
Also the team dumps Lubo-craps rediculous contract.
I'm surprised Dl found a sucker to make that trade.

Last year Lubo-crap played terrible. I mean absolutely terrible.
No way he's worth over $5 Million a year.
He'll never regain his form and play the way he used to.
I also believe that this trade will get Kevin Lowe-life fired. This trade will not make them a better team. And Lubo will tie up their salary cap.
But it made the Kings a a lot better.
Don't underestimate that Mike Greene. This kid knows how to throw his body around. Which is what this team needed and something Lubo-crap has no knowledge of.

Again my hats off to DL. He's doing a 180% and making this team better.
Now don't mess it up by signing that piece of GARBAGE Rob Blake.
We don't need him now. We have more than enough D-Man to grow with.
He's just extra baggage who plays with ZERO passion.
He'd contamonate our kids on the blue line.

/end quote

LOL. Maybe now we should be worried about the Williams/O'Sullivan trade.

Go kings (get a lottery pick)(but score a lot points)!

Another example of why some of us have drank the kool-aid. Martin Jones was acquired by DL through some obscure rule in the CBA about undrafted, draft eligible players being signable if they are invited and participate in a training camp. He was just honored by the WHL for an outstanding season in Calgary with a 2nd team all star selection. He won 45 games this year and put up all kinds of insane numbers. If he went into the draft this year he'd probably be a second - or even first - round draft pick. Even more insurance for us if Bernier doesn't work out or is deemed tradeable.

I think TM's doing a decent job, but using Peter Harrold on the 2nd line and on the PP ahead of Jack Johnson is just wrong.

Another season with no Kings in the playoffs. How many more years will it take before the fans say that is enough. Three years of DL and still no playoffs. Yes, there is the future, but the future is not today. DL will probably trade the assets off one by one for some injuried ex Flyer....

Ciccarelli,
I remember making that comment.
And I'm impressed with your research skills.
Since my research skills are pathetic, I might want to hire you as my paralegal.

But, I never said I didn't like the Lubo trade.
I do.
I only said I didn't like the way he was treated and lied to by DL.
Stoll has been good.
Greene is OK.

Anthony,

Thanks for the kudos on my reasearching skills. But you hurt my feelings with the paralegal comment. You're not the only lawyer on here Anthony. But, you didn't know any better, so I won't hold THAT against you.

Ciccarelli, Esq.

Ciccarelli,
LOL
I'd love to give you my website info.
But I'm afraid to get cranked by half the members here.
Maybe we've been two ships that passed through the night.

Anthony:
Lying seems to be the M.O. of the Kings GM.
Lies to players.
Lies to (and uses) the press.
Lies to the fans.

Maybe he should get into Wall Street or NYC Banking.
Better yet - Congress!

-Nearly every team is .500 with the SO. It doesn't mean the same thing as in other sports.
-Three full years in the "teens" in a sixteen team conference.
-Worst year in Kings history, worst 3 in franchise history.
-Trading real players for a bag of magic beans.
-30 goal scorer for a late first pick.
-K Calder II for a young, talented guy Lombo went out of his way to pick up
-Just plain miserable free agent signings.
-Failure to obtain a starting goaltender with experience and anointing Jason and the La Barbaranauts sunk the season out of the gate.
-Two words, Marc Crawford.

Lombo is to me a Dick Nixon, an O.J., Disco, Roseanne, Bettman and Rob "the steely dan" Blake. He's a glorified scout. There are too many fans who worship him out of misguided loyalty to the team. I want the team on the right track too, but there is just no evidence, AFAIC, this vindictive man can provide the leadership necessary to create a real winner. SJ all over again for him.

anthony:

Why this infatuation.
Does DL or TM take food off your table?
Does DL or TM take clothes off your back?
Does DL or TM charge your rent or mortgage.

So Why attack him so vigorously.

Anthony, that is tooooo funny! I knew you were a lawyer, I just knew it, you remind me of two attorneys I deal with on a regular basis.

I was planning to vote Approve for both like I did the last 2 times, but Murray changing lines / D pairs has really been bugging me lately. it's March, there should be a *little* more stability. Boston game was the exception, but it's too much like picking names out of a hat right now. tinker in September or April (when we're completely out of it).

that's the only thing bothering me right now. other than the timing of the Williams trade being a little bit odd. I guess they feel like it was the only time they knew he or someone just like him would be available, from what I've read here.

For an indication of the "honesty" level of TM and DL, one need only review Kyle Calder's Time On Ice (TOI) numbers to see the hypocrisy.
Since the trade-deadline I haven't heard any of the "best play of his career" BS from Murray and his minutes have been amongst the lowest on the team.
He was even dropped to the 4th line for a few games and scratched once since March 4th.
I keep thinking back to the post from Murray where he said he expected to have the same lineup after the deadline. That came on the 2nd or 3rd.
There is absolutely no way he wasn't pushing O'Sullivan out the door at the very same time...

Rich,

Approval Graph is here. It's a little more confusing because I added a bar for incremental win percentage as someone had suggested. You clearly don't have to use it if you think it's hard to understand.

Best,
Jeremy

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