Practice lines

send moller down to manchester, put calder on the second line, place westgarth on the third with zus and simmonds, zeiler with armstrong and ivanans... That is the most ideal lineup for this team for the rest of the year. Toughness will win you games, not little wimps like moller

khanon, unfortunately that scenario would involve sending a borderline NHLer over the boards for 15 minutes a night. Westgarth has no business playing more than 5 minutes.

send moller down to manchester, blah blah blah

Please know your facts before posting. Moller can't be sent down to Manchester. It's either the Kings or his Jr's team.

Ok, then send that little, European wimp down to Juniors or scratch him. Its a joke watching him get pushed around.

Wow, I'm loving that Fro-Sto-Mo line. Look out!

Aren't these the lines we started the season with, except O'Sullivan was taking Purcell's spot..

Khanon, do you know what you're talking about? Moller has been playing well for us..

khanon81 -

In one masterstroke, you have just invalidated every opinion you might have, have had or ever will have. Good work.

Moller plays better defense, backchecks harder, hits harder, hits more and takes more hits than many of his teammates (Kopitar, to pick one name). And he's not afraid of the corners, or the front of the net.

Wimp! Riiiiiight.

Replace Ivanans and Westgarth with Richardson and Zeiler and make sure Harrold is out there on defense instead of Gauthier and I'll get more optimistic about this game as well as the rest of the year.

Think about it..

That one line consists of.. master puck control, elite-level face-offs, wicked slapshots, finished checks, grinding, and youth all-in-one.

Have those 3 even played with each other together before? I'm fired up.

No, you're absolutely right khanon, The fact that he's only played 36 games and has 7 goals with 8 assists is absolutely terrible for a rookie. WTF?

Toughness does not win you games. The fact that Ivanans, Zeiler, and Westgarth combined (minor league stats included) do not even come close to the number of points that Moller has put together in 36 games is undeniable proof of that. If you want more proof, watch Detroit play.

Hits DO NOT equal goals!

While we're at it, go tell your buddy Terry Murray. He hasn't figured out that simple fact either. One day, we'll hire a coach who knows how to build a team rather than just shake up lines.

I'm sick of our second line.

Does anybody else see that while Frolov's and Stoll's playing styles compliment eachother, the two actually have very little chemistry together? They seem like a good fit, but I just don't see them reading eachother well. Which is surprising, because Frolov can play with most anybody, as it would seem with Stoll as well.

I'd rather Frolov be with Zus and Simmonds than Stoll and anyone at this point.

Frolov + Zus = Chemistry
Frolov + Kopi = Chemistry
Stoll + Brown = Chemistry
Kopi + Brown = No Chemistry
Stoll + Frolov = No Chemistry

What gives?

As for Moller, yeah he gets pushed around, and he takes more hits than most. But he always makes more plays than most. Moller rarely gets stripped of the puck, even when he is about to crushed, he makes a play, gets the puck deep or to a teammate. Moller is extremely effective imo and is just learning how to get in an out of seems on NHL ice. He's getting there, and when he gets a good feel for the seems, watch out, just like Purcell has come on lately because he is taking advantage of open seems. Moller has outstanding vision, incredible tenacity and just as much heart as Simmonds.

I want these lines

Fro-Kopi-Purcell
Brown-Stoll-Moller
Richardson-Zus-Simmonds
Calder-Army-Ivanans

Westgarth better punch a Bruin in the face if he's going to play tomorrow.

I would agree that when Stoll and Frolov play together, both their scoring seems to go down. contrast that when Fro plays with Simmonds or Purcell or Kopi - anybody but stoll.

the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts in this case.

All you guys that claim toughness doesn't win games simply don't know real hockey and thats understandable since california is not a hockey town.

I'm a huge Moller fan but no one can deny the fact that on 5 on 5, he's not overly effective because of how easily he gets pushed off the puck. Of his 15 points, 9 were on the PP where he doesn't have a man on him and can use his skill to make plays.

For a 20 year old, however, he has played very well.

khanon, no one ever said toughness doesn't win games. None of us agree that Moller is a little wimp.. This is what the lines SHOULD look like..

Frolov-Kopitar-Purcell
Moller-Stoll-Brown
Rchardson-Handzus-Simmonds
Calder-Armstrong-Ivanans

Johnson-Doughty
Greene-Harrold
O'Donnell-Harrold

PLEASEEEEE

Just because someone might be 6'5" and weigh 220 lbs doesn't make that player tough. Moller's a shrimp but he's hardly a wimp. He finished the WJC playing with a broken clavicle. Moller may be small, but he plays with a lot of heart. I'd rather have players who take a hit, get up and drive to the net or into the corners like Moller than players that take a hit, turn around and take a stupid penalty and then cry to the zebras about it. Wimp? Please.

khanon81,

Theo Fleury and Dino Ciccarelli used to get pushed around all of the time. Do you think they were wimps?

Cliff Ronning was pretty feisty, too(before the injuries). I think Moller will end up being a lot like CR.

Yeah, size means nothing. Just look at Boyle. I think I've seen him layout one guy this season, with most big and tough guys doing it once a shift.

"Theo Fleury and Dino Ciccarelli used to get pushed around all of the time. Do you think they were wimps?"

That is one the most dumbest hockey questions ever! Dino and Theo were feisty, parked in front of the net, mixed it up CONSISTENTLY! Not just one semi-physical game out of ten. Keep in mind that these two players are from North America, not Sweden or any other European country. Look at all the top teams (except for Detroit) and tell me that toughness doesnt win you games. Detroit is a freak of nature and thats the only organization that can pull of successful seasons with an extremely wimpy lineup.

Ah, so the truth comes out. You don't dislike Moller, you just dislike Euros. Fair enough. Silly, but fair enough.

Oh come on dude,

I'm pretty sure that even the much maligned Don Cherry doesn't actually believe half the things that he says about overseas players... he does it for the entertainment value.

No team has succeeded in winning the Cup in the last 33 years or so by entirely relying on a physical (ie. intimidation) game. You need a mix of speed, size, aggressiveness, and TALENT in order to make it happen.

I don't dislike Euros. I dislike the European hockey style.

Frolov happens to be one of the toughest guys to take the puck from on our team, and he happens to be from where again? Russia.. Hmm..

What about Ovechkin? He's European..?

We have a guy like Gauthier, who's known for hitting people and not being a "wimp".. What has he done positive for us? Nothing. It's not all about toughness, but you need a mixture of things to win games and the cup. Soon enough, the Kings will have that.

Moller is going to be a solid player next year, just watch. I hope he scores a hat trick against Boston

Khan-

I hate to say it, man, but Detroit has many Euro's on their team. Pavel Datysuk ring a bell? How about Zetterberg? Franzen?

I think it's just who they are and how they're developed, really, and not where they're from.

They would also get pushed around because they were small.

Duh.

My point is that Moller may be small, but he does play tough. Yeah he gets knocked around and he's also only 19 years old. If you watch the kid play you'll see a hard working, skilled, tough young player developing in the NHL. But obviously you don't see that because you just called Detroit a wimpy team, which I find extremely laughable. It's also obvious from your last post that you don't have much regard for European players. I'd like to see you tell that to Johan Franzen or Tomas Holmstrom out on the ice.

"No team has succeeded in winning the Cup in the last 33 years or so by entirely relying on a physical (ie. intimidation) game. You need a mix of speed, size, aggressiveness, and TALENT in order to make it happen."

I agree fully with this statement. Unfortunately, the Kings top two lines, except for Brown and Stoll, are very weak and small. The players that do have size on the top two lines are wimpy (Frolov, Kopitar, Purcell). I'm fine with Kopitar because hes one the more skilled players in the league and he plays hard. We need to get some size up front on the top two lines, and until we do, we need to play Ivanans and Westgarth to prevent the oposing team from pushing around little cowards like moller and big cowards like frolov and purcell.

I agree N.A. Hockey is more entertaining than European hockey. Take note however that Moller came to N.A. when he was 16 I believe, maybe 17, specifically to come and learn N.A. hockey. Moller has Swedish skill and N.A. fire written all over him.

He doesn't play a Euro game, he's just tiny and not quite fast enough yet to dodge all those hits. But I'll reitterate, he doesn't get knocked off the puck, because he is quick enough to make some sort of play before getting hit, most of the time. Hell, he's been better at this than Brown lately. Brown has been carrying the puck, getting hit and straight up losing the puck. Moller gets taken out of the play, but he rarely just loses the puck.

Detroit is a freak of nature. Thats the only organization that can pull off successful seasons with a lineup stacked with Euro wimps and North American wimps. Bad example. Look at all the other top teams and tell me that they are wimpy teams

Khanon, you should be a Ducks fan then; Pronger, Niedermayer, Parros, etc. Lots of toughness there. And that toughness buys them two more points than the wimpy girly Kings.
Yep, toughness wins games.

Dude, no one is calling any of the top teams wimpy. It's you. You seem to be fixated on wimpy vs. non-wimpy players and teams. You should really watch a game of hockey one of these nights. It's a great game.

Khan-

Again..

San Jose, Boston, Washington, Philly, NJ, and more than I care to list, ALL have Euro's in their line-ups. Are you telling me(us) that these teams don't play with grit? Did you watch any of the games we played against these monsters? We have yet to beat SJ, Boston is going to brutal, WA games were both very tough, very close games, Philly we split, and were both extremeley grueling games, and NJ was the same.

So, what are you REALLY trying to say? I'm confused.

i think the problem here is that khanon needs to define "wimpy" and for that matter "european" hockey. moller and ivanans are both from europe, but i suppose one would argue that moller is the one who plays "european" hockey. however, ivanans also doesn't know which end of the stick to hold. so maybe, the team needs some sort of...wait for it...BALANCE of skill and toughness! and it shouldn't matter what area of the world it comes from.

"San Jose, Boston, Washington, Philly, NJ, and more than I care to list, ALL have Euro's in their line-ups. Are you telling me(us) that these teams don't play with grit? Did you watch any of the games we played against these monsters? We have yet to beat SJ, Boston is going to brutal, WA games were both very tough, very close games, Philly we split, and were both extremeley grueling games, and NJ was the same."

All of these teams listed are tough. Yes they have Euros, but they also have many tough players that are willing to mix it up besides ONE enforcer.

"All of these teams listed are tough. Yes they have Euros, but they also have many tough players that are willing to mix it up besides ONE enforcer."

So, what you're saying is, the Kings don't mix it up? I have to admit, the Kings have shown(in the past) that they can play without a bit of fire, but they've been much better as of late.

We have it where it counts when it's needed, and that's all that counts. Moller is fine. He plays with enough fire. He just needs an American to take his Swedish ass to a Burger King for some Whopper action. Then, he can take whatever players take to make them get bigger(I'm not going there, then hit the gym. I'm serious. Hey, Gretzky used to drag Bernie to McDonalds quite frequently.

There is a definite difference between TOUGH hockey and what Westgarth and Ivanns bring to lineup. The fact is, scoring more than your opponent wins games... And that means guys that score and play D... Ivanans and Westgarth do neither. Sure they may crash they net but have no hands or sense of timing.. plus any goal they might take some credit for is negated by the 2-3 bad penalties a game they are taking

Moeller can score, and can play D. Unfortunately we need more players like Calder (who at least has OK hands, and hockey sense) to fill the enforcer roles. Right now, neither Westgarth nor Ivanvans are going to get you the goals you need, or play the solid D we need.

"Unfortunately we need more players like Calder (who at least has OK hands, and hockey sense) to fill the enforcer roles."

What the hell are you talking about, Calder is an enforcer?? You're an idiot. How many fights does Calder get into a year, 1, 2, 0?

Not every player on your team is suppose to score goals. The first two lines are scoring lines, the third line is a shut down line with gritty players who will mix it up when called upon, and the fourth line is the enforcer line, a line compiled of enforcers to keep the opponents honest so we wont have a replay of last year, i.e., Michael Camaleri sticking up for Kopitar and getting injured for the rest of the year. IDIOT

Meanwhile, while I LOATHE Harrold skating with Frolov and Stoll (imagine how THEY feel...) I think it would be a shame to remove him from the lineup in Boston, seeing as how he probably has a lot of family, fans and friends who would enjoy seeing him on the ice, and not in the press box for this game. What is the love affair with skating Ivanans and Westgarth in the same game (I would say "same league," but both belong in the A...)? Well, the good news is that a few road losses will put to rest any notion that the Kings will have a draft choice OUT of the top 10...

Why are you all even dignifying this khanon person's posts with responses? He is clearly lacking in hockey knowledge and his posts are not worth reading, forget replying.

Why don't we discuss something worthwhile like who should start in goal tomorrow? I would say the Kings should go with Ersberg again and then play Quick Friday against the Pens (unless Erik does something crazy like shut the B's out).

Does anyone know, can the Kings call Hickey and Teubert up when Seattle's and Ontario's seasons are over? Does it work at the end of the season the same as at the beginning where junior players can play 9 games with the team without using up a year of their contract? If the Kings return home from this 6-game swing in a worse position than they are now all hope will be lost for the playoffs so it would seem like a great opportunity to get two more young guys a chance in the NHL like Johnson had a couple years ago for the last 5 games of the season.

Let's draft Jordan Schroder, PLEASE DEAN

And Harrold will hopefully play on D tomorrow. Enough of this bullsh*t.. He's a good defenseman, and an ok 4th liner, not a 2nd line..

Baumgartner22 -

"however, ivanans also doesn't know which end of the stick to hold."...HAHA!! Classic dude! That made me laugh out loud.

The only thing I find crazy about this whole thread (as opposed to the obvious - every one of khanon81's posts), is that someone near the top said they wanted to see Zeiler inserted into the lineup...yikes!

my point Khan was not that Calder was the enforcer or should be... but that at least he has a set of hands a notch above stone, he understand the game better than a bag of pucks, and he contributes on both sides of the ice...

That is not to say he is the solution to our problems.. but if we had an enforcer with these qualities then we are better off. We cannot waste two spots in the lineup to two players that will make our team worse. I would rather have Moeller in there... Let Greene Fight, Dustin, Odie, etc...

Right now, no one seems to care that Ivanans and Westgarth are in the lineup, they cheer it. That means we have two pylons they can skate around. Ivanans has yet to hit anyone harder the Brown, and his few fights this season have been less than stellar. At least Westgath skates a little faster, but both players in the lineup will force you to kill needless penalites. Combine that with Gauthier and I would be surprise if we have any 5 on 5 time.

Enforcer hockey does not win games, strong play, and willing to pay the price for a goal do... and Ivanans and Westgarth are a step in the wrong direction for that.

Well put Garrett. It's obvious that we're all passionate hockey fans and sometimes it's easy to get carried away when clowns like khan post on here.

I actually was wondering the same thing about Hickey when I read about Teubert going to Ontario. Hickey is the one I'm very curious to see if they'll bring to the big club after Seattle is done with their season. Even if it's 5 games that'd be great to see him play. Too bad 3 of the last 4 games this season aren't being televised.

At least Harrold is off the second line. What a joke that was.
Three cheers for the coach.

Mickey,
I agree with your point... I'd take a Hartnell or Lucic over #41 in a second. I do think that Westgarth actually has skills though, or at least potential. Just watch him during a pre-game skate... he makes his way across our choppy ice a lot faster than some of our top 6.

Just so you all know-

Hickey's team (SETTLE) is set to play a back-to-back against Spokane this Friday and Saturday. From what I'm hearing around the WHL, He's been a force in their playoff drive. Also, Spokane has been hit with an illness and have looked DEAD, so he may be playing for awhile...

Thanks for the update Jayrew.

[AK47 said: We have a guy like Gauthier, who's known for hitting people and not being a "wimp".. What has he done positive for us? Nothing.]

Did you watch him against Nashville? He was one of our best D men (many blocked shots, solid passing, hard hits) - I never knocked him for those suspensions and he is (slowly) showing that he can be trusted with the puck again.

Maybe a couple positive games doesn't make up for some of the stuff that happened earlier in the season - but why knock a player who is seemingly rebounding?

RE Hickey,

I know i Posted just a second ago but...

Playoffs start for Seattle on Friday at Spokane, who is the defending memorial cup champs. However, spokane had to postpone their final regular season game because of food poisining. They looked so lethargic when they made up the game. Spokane has home ice for the opening round, but i would say, combined with other injuries, that Seattle has got to be the favorite in that series. Hopefully they get eliminated by Spokane so Hickey can play up a level, and so I can make some money on group commisions (I'm a ticket guy in the WHL)

"Ivanans has yet to hit anyone harder the Brown, and his few fights this season have been less than stellar"

I agree, thats why the Kings should trade for a guy like Brian McGratton in Phoenix or Derik Boogaard in Minnesota. Then we can have two enforcers who want to fight and who can really do some damage in fights. Good point

im not gonna comment on khanon's comments primarily because i think there have been enough comments on his stupidity

but why Ak-47, what is with your obsession with jordan schroeder? hes 5'9!!! the last thing we need is another tiny player whos gonna be taken advantage of physically in the corners

I don't get all the Harrold hatred. I'm not exactly his greatest fan, but I'd rather have him on the third line as a forward than on the third pair as a defenseman. He skates faster going forward!

Anonymous,

Thanks for giving the Goat some praise. He's had a couple of bad games, but he gets way more sh** than he deserves. He was outstanding against Nashville.

Second Anonymous,

Harrold is a fringe player, and I think its more a distaste for so many fringe NHLers on the team than it hatred against Harrold specifically. Although, he did cost us the Nashville game, and he better damn well be benched for it tomorrow. I've backed up Murray on being fair in distributing punishments, but if he doesn't bench Harrold, or at best, relegate him to 4th line, 6-8 minutes and no PP time tomorrow, then I will have to go rescind my earlier support of TM's punishment system.

Jordan Schroeder...

man, after reading about watching a little video on so many of these other prospects, Duschene, MSP, Schenn, this Scott Glennie, and Zack Kassian who excites me, I'm a little less hot on Schroder. However, that kid is definately the most talented player I've seen play any hockey in this draft class. He's tiny, but man he's fast and has a ridiculous nose for the net. I think we need a player like him, though I would prefer that player to be 5'11"-6'2" instead of 5'9".

All you guys that claim toughness doesn't win games simply don't know real hockey and thats understandable since california is not a hockey town.

Hmmm... you didn't know that moller can't be sent down to Man or that moller is NA-trained and you act like people in California don't know hockey (and BTW, California is a state, not a town, genius).

Most fighting majors in the league this year- Anaheim (currently out of playoffs)
Derrick Boogard- Minnesota (currently out of playoffs)
Brian McGratton- Phoenix (currently out of playoffs)

Goons do not equal toughness or success or "real" hockey, you bonehead.

(to other posters- this will be the 1st and only time I address khanon81's comments. I suggest other posters ignore as well; do we really need any more you-know-who's (begins with an A or C, your choice) trolling and trashing up the comments section?)

Will everybody please stop using the word "wimp" or "wimpy"? It sounds ridiculous. This isn't 4th grade or 1964.

jayrew -

I have to disagree that Seattle is the favorite over Spokane. Even though Spokane had to postpone their last 2 regular season games, they actually played good, and only lost 1-0 against Kelowna (a team that is just above them) and beat Tri-Cities (second overall) 2-1 to finish the season. Even though Spokane and Seattle ended up 4th and 5th, Spokane still finished the season 20 points ahead of Seattle (95 points to 75 points). Even if Hickey plays lights out, I don't think they have much of a chance against the Cheifs, who has Drayson Bowman up front and Team Canada's Dustin Tokarksi in net.

Mark - see you at the Harp before the game. Go Kings go!

good job
its the wrong lines

No, it wasn't the ``wrong lines.'' It's the way they skated in practice. Perhaps English is a difficult language to comprehend, but thanks for your anonymous comment.

Mark here. Thanks Rich, I may not see the Kings everyday, but I know the Kings players.

Unless Harrold got thinner and put Mollers #9 helmet on, it was certainly Oscar in the green jersey. Perhaps TM's idea is to get him to earn that 2nd line job, and maybe not seeing something he wanted, put Harrold back in.

Harrold went to BC, and that could have been the swing. Gauthier out tonite, hopefully Harry moves to D and Moller gets inserted along with Z or Richardson with Ivanans out.