Trade deadline, t-minus 28 hours

Calder isn't a bad player, he's just not 1st or 2nd line material. If Dean can get something for him now, it would better for us down the line. He's not a vet that will take us to the next level. He would be better served on a team that needs a good 3rd/4th line energy player, probably one that will contend.

Spezza..

I just can't see that guy in a Kings sweater. He's way too soft for this division. He'd get creamed against the Ducks, Stars, and Sharks.

You just had to dangle the carrot didn't you?!

I would hope that the Internet rumor-mongers would remain on the roller derby site and stay off this blog, but that may be too much to ask....

Great article, Rich. You should share your thoughts with commentaries of this sort more often. The trade deadline is an exciting time, and there certainly will be a couple of exciting moves made by other teams. But let's be level-headed and pragmatic as we try to project what the Kings might do, if anything, before tomorrow's deadline.

In Dean we trust...

Kyle Calder is a 3rd line or 4th line player. He's taking up a spot in our top 6 forwards, and it's somewhat of an embarrassment.. Moller should take his spot, Purcell or even Trevor Lewis. If we can trade Calder to a team like Detroit and get a pick out of it, I'd be fine with it. I'm sure no team will give us a good, young prospect, like David Perron for Kyle Calder.

I guess this means DL will re-sign Sean O'Donnell for another year? I agree that he's been very important in Drew's development, but there's only so much you can help him with.. I think O'Donnell will play more of a 7th defenseman role next year, if he stays with the team.. We need to start bringing up kids like Voynov or Drewiskie.

Ak47..You just made Rich's point...Why would the best team in the west (arguably)want to take on a 3rd or 4th line player from an inferior team? Or why would they want to give up any type of asset for him...be it a 6th or 7th round pick? Remember Acevedo was drafted in the 6th round. Would you trade Acevedo for Calder?

Also you feel he's standing in the way of Purcell...I haven't seen much from Purcell since his return. In fact I'm more disappointed in this recent call up then the others. I don't see any improvement.

Rich...you think Spezza might be coming this way? I wonder what it would take..you have to also consider that he's got 6 yrs left @ 7 mil a year. I thought he signed an extension last year.
He's 25...real good player...Since we would be taking on that contract I would hope the asking price would be lower.

The best time for DL will be when the cap for next year is set and GM's are panicking when they realize they are either over or have to let their good players go for nothing. If that is at the time of the draft, then so much the better. At this point teams with cap space like the Kings can come in and get compensated with a draft pick or something for taking an overpriced player off their hands (see Malakhov, Vladimir and Lamoriello, Lou).

Ak-

I think OD will make the team next year. I want the kids up here, but I don't think they all make the squad.

Drewiskie was very impressive during his stay here. I think he has a decent shot next season.

Calder is worth a pick; nothing more, nothing less.

Rich, re Calder trade/suckiness dichotomy:

While I have never been in the militant "Calder = steaming pile of something that dropped out of the wrong end of a dog" camp, I have pretty much all season argued that he was auditioning for his trade-deadline deal to a cup contender. My own logic was just the traditional "he's a UFA so DL will deal him rather than lose him for nothing."

It seems to me, though, that for a lot of people, Calder is the new Modry. While it is hilarious for people to argue out of one side of their mouths that Calder is terrible and out of the other side that he needs to be dealt immediately for Kovalchuk, I would note that -- back on planet earth -- even Modry was a trade-able asset, and was in fact dealt to Philadelphia for a third round pick that landed us Wudrick.

It is sort of like the Woody Allen joke about the two old ladies at a restaurant complaining about the meal. One says "the food here is terrible." And the other says, "and such small portions!"

I suspect, if you unpack the hypocrisy in the attitudes about Calder, it's likely that people know he really does have value, but like complaining about him anyway. Either that, or it's just like my five year old, who is constantly trying to give me his broken crappy old toys in "trade" for new expensive ones.

I'm sure a lot of sports fan psychology can be explained with toddler logic.

Re SOD -

I am happy to have SOD for another year. I imagine that makes the D for '09 look something like:

Johnson/Doughty
Quincey/Greene
SOD/[Hickey or Voynov]
Harrold/[Teubert, Campbell, Drewiske, Kidd]

O'Donnell essentially becomes mentor to the next class of rookie speedster, Hickey or Voynov or both, I guess. Harrold stays as the perennially useful 7th d, until one of the bracketed kids is ready, and maybe he stays even beyond that. Maybe Harrold stays in '10-'11 when SOD retires (assuming he's not going Chelios on us, which I guess could happen).

Funny how all of the sudden our defense looks so solid.

Quisp - you stole my toddler logic insight from a post last summer. Never mind, you did better with it anyway.

Calder gets bashed cause hes the wrong guy in the wrong spot in the lineup (like Armstrong last season). No way hes 1st / 2nd line material even when the CBS line was hot he was the weakest link he had like 1/2 the points of Brown and Stoll in that span.I echo whats already been said he blocking a prospects progression on this team (1 yr of Oscars contract wasted). Last time I check this team was going young how is that accomplished by shoehorning an older player whos a UFA after the season into a role he isn't suited for?

For all the good that was done this season some really poor lineup choices were made by TM. Labarbara was the the #1 at the start of the season this should have set off alarms. Regardless of how poorly he played he kept running him out there. The handling of Calder is another example shuffled from 1st to 2nd line regardless of performance removed from those lines for 1 or 2 shifts and then back in. I just don't get it.

NYKingsfan, re Calder to Detroit etc. -

Well, what you're saying is essentially, if Calder is a third liner on the Kings, he would basically be a fifth or sixth liner (if there were such a thing) on the Wings. That's not how it works, though, right?

The logic is this: Calder is a solid third liner, not just on the Kings, but on any team. On the Kings, who don't have the skill up front of the Wings, Calder has been thrust into a role he's not suited for. On a better team, he can play third line and make a real contribution.

It's not as though third line players are failed or demoted first line or second line players. They have a different style of play and a different role on the team. Calder does have value to a playoff bound team, even the Red Wings, who are known to add such spare parts at the deadline.

For example, in 2007, at the deadline, the Red Wings made a trade to acquire...wait for it...Kyle Calder.

Wait.... Calder sucks?

Rich, talk to the agents re: Frolov - where there's smoke, there's fire

Calder can block all he wants.

Moller still needs to TAKE the spot.

Some people still have this fascination of just handing jobs to kids. When will everyone learn? These kids need to EARN their spots. You hand it too them, and they will fail...period.

Any update as to what is going on with our friend Priessing? Did he clear? Will we put him on re-entry waivers to make him more enticing?

Rich,

Is there anything to the idea that the Kings might be able to add a strong up and coming type player or a pending RFA (and I don't want to say Mega star) that comes as a result of another team needing to shed salary and all it costs us is may be a pick or a prospect or both if the player is strong enough? I am really hoping some high priced mega stars do get traded so that those teams will need to dump other players in order to get below the cap. The Kings are one of a few teams that have enough cap space to to do this and I am really hopeful we can rob a couple of teams of some talent.

Thoughts?

Nothing personal against the likes of Calder, Preissing, Gauthier or Armstrong. I'm sure their good guys just trying to make a living, but I would be surprised if they were still on the Kings roster next season. With that being said, I would've expected that Lombardi may try and move them even if it's for 3rd, 4th or 5th round picks. I can also see why he wouldn't do that because it may turn the dressing room on it's collective head considering that the Kings are still in the playoff hunt. Hmm, what will Lombardi do next? Oh, and I'm glad O'Donnell will stay for another year if they work out a deal. That's terrific news.

I hate to piss in the punch bowl here, but Preissing to waivers WAS the move of the deadline for Deano.

Quisp...I've like Calder's play for the most part this year. I think a guy like him does have value to other teams..but if you're argument is he's an embarrassment playing on the Kings, using that logic, why would Detroit be giving up an asset for him?
None of us know whether he has value or not...I'm just saying you can't bash the guy and then say lets get a pick for him...

mrbrett7, re kids/earning spots:

You're right. Not only do you have to earn your spot, but you have to keep earning it. POS would be an example of a player who periodically seems to forget that he has to keep earning his spot. Bernier, to a lesser extent, also appears to have thought he earned something he hadn't yet earned.

Two players who have played every shift as if their careers depended on it, and who have earned their spots and kept them because of it, are Simmonds and Moller. (I would argue, incidentally, that Calder has also played like his career depended on it, since about Xmas.)

Moller has outplayed Calder by every conceivable yardstick, points/game, goals/game, shots, powerplay goals...

Actually, at the risk of descending into a swamp of statistics, I'm going to quote extensively from a great site called www.hockeyanalysis.com, which runs all sorts of stats and analysis of NHL games. They have an algorithm for calculating player value and contribution. First here's what they say about how the number is calculated, and then I'll cut and paste what they say about Moller and the other Kings.

"The Player rankings are calculated by considering how many goals are scored or given up when a player is on the ice compared to when that player is not on the ice. Also considered is how well players who play with him perform compared to how well they perform when they are not playing with him. The player performance with and against other players stats (see below) is a basis for the computation of these stats. Ratings are given for defense, offense and overall performance. The ratings are ice time independent. Also shown is a Total Contribution rating which is loosely defined as the players rating multiplied by the players ice time. So, a player with a good overall rating and who plays a lot will get the highest total contribution scores."

Now, here are the rankings of the Kings, this season:

NAME / OFFENSIVE RATING / DEFENSIVE / OVERALL / CONTRIBUTION

DREW DOUGHTY 1.06 1.01 1.04 2360.49
KYLE QUINCEY 1.20 1.05 1.13 2326.43
ALEX FROLOV 1.24 1.09 1.17 2203.50
DUSTIN BROWN 1.28 0.84 1.07 2125.44
PCK O'SULLIVAN 1.22 1.09 1.16 2125.39
ANZE KOPITAR 1.18 0.85 1.03 2125.13
JARRET STOLL 1.13 1.45 1.28 2086.14
SEAN O'DONNELL 1.02 1.19 1.11 2049.07
MATT GREENE 0.92 1.15 1.05 1951.19
MICHAL HANDZUS 1.15 1.00 1.07 1811.41
KYLE CALDER 0.91 1.25 1.07 1444.86
WAYNE SIMMONDS 0.55 1.44 1.01 1348.26
PETER HARROLD 0.65 1.25 0.92 1197.38
O MOLLER 1.00 1.32 1.14 955.72
DENIS GAUTHIER 0.83 0.89 0.86 892.30
TOM PREISSING 0.96 0.74 0.86 588.75
RAITIS IVANANS 0.26 1.27 0.76 523.16
JACK JOHNSON 0.94 0.89 0.91 480.58
EDWARD PURCELL 0.92 0.98 0.95 379.50
BRAD RICHDSON 0.59 1.15 0.87 324.76
DEREK ARMSTNG 0.49 0.67 0.58 273.79
BRIAN BOYLE 0.31 0.57 0.44 165.79

Some things jump out at me. First of all, who has a higher overall rating than Moller? Only Jarret Stoll, POS and Frolov, with Quincey running one point behind Moller. Who has a better defensive rating? Only Stoll and Simmonds. Better offensive rating? Well, here most of our top six role forwards have better ratings than Moller, the exceptions being Simmonds and our friend Kyle Calder.

nykingsfan -

I never said Calder was an embarrassment. Somebody else said that. I don't mind him, personally. I do wish DL would deal him for a pick or two, though.

Ha Ha The Rangers brought back Avery. Sather's a desperate man...Either that or Dolan is sticking his nose in the hockey side of things.
That team is in such disarray and has been for a long time...and will continue to be with their recent free agent signings.

Quisp...I know you never said that...I was referring to AK47 stating he's an embarrassment and then asking the Wings for a pick.

Quisp--always enjoy your posts!

I think this situation plays exactly to DL's plan. If you've been reading Rich's awesome interview with DL and been listening to his interview on NHL Live, you could have almost predicted that the Kings would be in this sitation--a lack of scoring up front. DL said that he we going to build up from the goaltender. So now the Kings have assets in goal and the blueline. DL will now be looking now, or in June for that coveted sniper. They will be there, but DL won't give up any (or much) of his assets to get one. With the salary cap going down next year, DL will be in great position to be a buyer.

I cannot believe that someone actually thought Rich was being serious about Spezza. C'mon folks! Sarcasism?

FROLOV needs to stay

completely agree w/ rich's analysis...

and i've been saying all along that draft day is really where d.l. is going to execute his overall strategy in adding a top player...we will all have a better idea as to the direction of this team then...

until then, nothing is going to get done....at least, nothing of major significance...

Rich.

Believe a GM just before a trade deadline at your own peril.

Calder has value as a player, but God (dean lombardi) overpaid him ridiculously - same with Preissy. Frolov's value (if you want to asses it) may never be so high again. It comes down to more than just his contract status.

We'd be fools to stand pat and make no trades. We at least need to clear out some room for the 14 draft picks we're going to have coming this summer.

The problem here in LA is that we have seen Lombardi SEVERELY undervalue our players in the trade arena. We take valueable assets and dump them for less than equal return.
We got a 7th for Labs, and a few weeks later the Oilers traded Garon for 2 prospects and a draft pick.
We get low round picks in return for players like Sopel, Modry, Stuart, etc. and teams like Columbus are getting 1st rounders for Adam Foote.
We sit on our hands as good young players like Tuomo Ruutu and Steve Bernier (both, I think, having seasons comparable or better than O'Sullivan - and not much older) change teams twice.

I can't think of a more backwards approach than saving your assets for draft day trades. There is never MORE VALUE to be had than on trade-deadline day. For example, if Cammalleri had been traded last deadline, he would have garnered more along the lines of a Brian Campbell. If we had him now, I'm sure we could be discussing Heatley, Kovalchuk, even possibly players like Ryan Smyth or Ollie Jokinen.
Columbus is looking for Centers. We have oodles of them. They have some decent prospects and some draft picks.

The worst part about the Kings situation is that we're devaluing our players by not playing them. We were subjected to Preissing soiling our press box for months because he's overpaid, and we've taken Harrold's dedication and competitiveness and rewarded it by ignoring it and over-playing players who aren't as responsible defensively (doughty) yet.
Throw in the horrible handling of Boyle (go get mean in Manchester, but come back after you put up a string of multi-point games) and he's now got little trade value. Teams interested simply need to wait until his contract is done, because it's obvious that he's mentally checked out and is ready to get out of here.

Finally, the day for acquiring a sniper is gone. The only reason we would have done it is if we had a fair trade and a reasonable chance of making the playoffs. We still have a chance at the playoffs, but it's hardly a reasonable one. But, flashy players aren't the only ones who win Stanley Cups. Warren Rychel won a cup. George Parros won a cup. Andreas Lilja won a cup. Players are devalued when they play in LA because we're perennial non-achievers. That is why teams love trading with us. We just give talent away because we destroy their marketability.

Sad to say, but Dean Lombardi's legacy so far is fairly negative. I'm not saying I don't like the direction we're headed and the abilities of the prospects, but what stands out most about Lombardi's tenure is a steady decline in the standings, teams that aren't even close to being in the playoff hunt, and SEVERELY OVERPAID players resulting in embarrassing buyouts and multi-million dollar players riding the pine in the press-box. I think it's even worse when we consider that we dump "problems" like Visnovsky and Cammalleri because they want to get their payday, yet we stand by Calder, we stand by Handzus, we stand by Priessing, we continue to pay McCauley, we continue to pay Cloutier, and we've overpaid their replacements - Stoll, Greene, O'Sullivan, Doughty.

Mrbrett CONSTANTLY points out that you have to earn your playing time in the NHL, but when Visnovsky and Cammy earned their time, we sent them packing and paid guys who have never earned a thing. Calder, Preissing, and Co. were on decent teams and never worked for a thing individually. Now they've come here and stunk it up for the most part, but we've already paid them over 5 million a piece. Frankly, the Kings ask for everything and expect to get bargains because that's what they view as "commitment."
Our F'ing Captain is one of the most under-paid players in the league. Kopitar would be worth 8 or 9 mil. a year on the open market, Frolov is the wet-dream of the league and he makes little more than Mr. Preissing or Mr. Calder.
Kopitar isn't even making as much this season as Dan Cloutier.

I'd say, sooner or later, if Lombardi doesn't get some elite players in LA, we're going to have a burnout situation and we'll be left in a position where our CORE players want to bolt for greener pastures.
Honestly, how can Dean Lombardi criticize Micheal Cammalleri for wanting to get paid? From the looks of thing prior to last season, it was the only motivation for playing in LA. Now we want to bring in snipers and throw money at them. For what? So we can use them as the scapegoat when everything falls apart again?

You need either a group of elite players, or an elite coach that can get average players to play like an elite squad. I don't think that we currently have either situation - or that we're close.
Murray is a good coach, but the LA Kings can't even claim to be average at this point. We're just another team that won't be in the playoffs, and over half the teams in the league make it. That's the only statistic that matters. That's where we are.

As that F-wad Jim Rome says - "scoreboard."

O'Donnell is turning into another Ivanans.
Taking useless and retaliatory penalties that put the team short-handed.
Lately he's been showing his age.
Personally, I think he's a waste of a uniform.
IF DL wants his players to look up to him by taking useless and retaliatory penalties, he must be on something.

I knew DL wasn't going to make any big deals.
With our offense sucking the way they are, most talented GMs would do something about it. Tis guy has given up on his team like he has in the last 2 seasons.
Now he's gonna end up buying up Preissings contract too. Just like McCaualey, Cloutier, and Crawford.

Just a matter of time before AEG gets will have enough of this joke.

AK have you forgotten that Kyle Calder was already with the Red Wings. So why would they give up something to get him back? Also, on the list of 09 draft choices already posted on this blog earlier, the Kings have more than anyone, but a lot of those are late round picks.... so what exactly are they going to do with another 7th round pick?

If Taylor could trade Brian Smolinski for Tim Gleason at the deadline, we should be able to get something for what we've currently got.

Pat, Spezza to the Kings(e4)

Cristobal,

Just wanted to clarify a few of your salary points.

1) Kopitar is making so little only because he is on an ELC same as Malkin is making for Pittsburgh this year as well. He got his extension which will pay him nicely starting next year.

2) I dont know how you say we pay Calder, Preissing, etc. over 5 million apiece. 5 million total maybe but not each.

I dont think your rant is that off base, but a few points are. The market is what it is. Some players get a little more because of name and past glory like Foote for 1st rounder but Lombardi hasnt had terrible trades. Market for Labarbera was scarce. Everyone knew he had to trade Cammi who would be a pain to resign. Have to look at really big picture between both teams not just LA

In response to Cristobal's post:

We take valueable assets and dump them for less than equal return.
We got a 7th for Labs, and a few weeks later the Oilers traded Garon for 2 prospects and a draft pick.

Labs was horrible here this year and Garon actually played well for the Oilers.

We get low round picks in return for players like Sopel, Modry, Stuart, etc. and teams like Columbus are getting 1st rounders for Adam Foote.

We got a 2nd for Stuart. That isn't a low round pick. IMO the Avs made a mistake giving up a 1st for Foote. Look at them this season!

For example, if Cammalleri had been traded last deadline, he would have garnered more along the lines of a Brian Campbell.

Umm, I hate to disappoint you but even on the very rare chance that we Had gotten Brian Campbell, he would have been gone immediately. The Kings didn't make the PO's as you know so what were they going to do with Campbell (yes I know you said "along the lines of". Well Campbell didn't even stay with SJ so who exactly do you mean when you say "along the lines of".
Honestly you make it all sound so easy.

I don't remember DL criticizing Cammalleri but he probably didn't want to give him huge bucks as at that point in time Cammi had to his credit One NHL season of 20 goals or more. And if the money was the only thing to keep him here then that isn't the sort of player DL is looking for.

Gk'o9

I just like to point out that a player like Cloutier, who had money thrown at him for whatever reason, made more than our best player this year.

I was meaning over the past 2 season in regards to Calder and Prieissing and how that money could have been used to make Cammy happy, instead of being totally wasted. Calder at 2.7 a year, and Priessing at 2.75 per year, makes approx. 5.45 million per year for both of them. Or, 5.4 million over 2 seasons to Calder, and 5.5 million over 2 seasons for Preissing. That is a horrible waste of money.
We also kind of wasted over 8 million on Handzus even though he's had a decent season this year, and then you add in the over 4 million wasted on Nagy, the millions wasted on McCauley and Cloutier, and it's a pretty shoddy record and no wonder Lombardi is gun-shy in the market.

I just think it's a little rude to paint Cammalleri as the villian and claim he was being unreasonable while you're wasting the funds that could be helping this team be a playoff contender - not to mention, Lubo and Cammy were valued highly before Lombardi came to LA.

Ersberg,

The only (e4) that I would get concerned about involves Orlando Hudson or Blake DeWitt

cristobal...

i love this arena because i really like to hear how other fans/followers think...someone's god bless all of us for caring sooooo much....

and after reading yr 100 page analysis, (i'm about to give you mine), i respectively completely disagree w/ many of yr points...especially if you think draft day decreases value of players of interest (to & fro)....

- comparing labs and garon is apples and oranges...garon has won almost 60 more nhl career games than jason and has a winning record...and it was a fair deal...what were you expecting? a first rounder for a sub-.500 goalie? no...not gonna happen...

- the role players you mentioned that have won cups are just that...they are signed because of a contending teams specific need to add a final piece of the puzzle...we have too many players whom are not long-term impact players (role players)...and we are not close to contending this season...you want d.l. to sell the farm of prospects for one or two players that "might" help us immediately and "might" bolt for FA after the season w/out the certainty of re-signing them to long-term deals? i don't...better to take the next few months to reassess who really is going to be available and THEN go aggressively after them...

- if you have any understanding of the cammalleri situation, he was traded because he wasn't going to sign w/ us...what do you want to pay a one-dimensional, selfish player? $5mil? $6mil? plus, there were 'issues' with his locker room congeniality...why keep a malcontent around? see: avery...and it would be then stupid to let him go for nothing when he bolts for FA...the trade had to be done...

- as great as kopi will be....NO WAY does he get $8-9mil on the 'open market'...not now...that's just not reality...

- brian boyle has done nothing consistently to warrant him being protect and coddled like you suggest...he was a project player at best w/high risk/reward...right now, he's teetering on failing...

- the days of getting a top-level sniper are hardly over...are you kidding? every gm is looking at the off season to probably make their "blockbuster" deals because of the biggest issue concerning them...the 2010-11 salary cap...at this point, all predict that it will decrease to a level nobody is sure of...in fact, because we do have all these prospects and d.p.'s coming, it makes us MORE attractive come draft day of us landing a top player...gm's become more inclined to trade their assets on draft day because of 1.) desperation of making a sea change based upon the previous season(s)disappointment(s) and 2.) the eagerness of a gm to go after a prospect they "must" have...how can you effectively plan and strategize a long-term impact player when you have a vague idea of what to expect? sure you can take yr chances, but it's not very smart...d.l. signed dusty and kopi to long-term deals because of where they are in their respective careers and they were also affordable...you also go out of yr way in keeping home grown talent...familiarity of the system also goes a long way...players who play with each other for years have a better chance of capturing the chemistry so greatly needed in today's league...you also need the cooperation of the player in question...there is no indication that kovy or gaborik or hossa is going to leave their respective teams while they are currently under contract...those discussions are often tedious...and in gaborik's case, he's been the subject of speculation the day he came into this league w/minny...also, he has yet to play a full season since 02-03...kovy often says he and his family love playing/living in atlanta and that he wants to play there the rest of his career...what...is he lying? it's not easy landing a proven sniper...if it was, everyone would have one...

some of d.l.'s decisions haven't been phi beta kappa...cloutier...yr right in calling that out...the nagy deal was terrible...and paying $4mil for zus is a lil' bit much, although he has shown his importance to a nhl team this year...$2.75mil for calds and preissing is also a bit high, but was closer to the fair market value that you under-estimate...some players are just not going to pan out, no matter what the price...

look...we have tons of cap room and tons of draft picks...you cannot turn around a team like the kings in a season...dave taylor really did a number with this team...and finally, there is a very bright light at the end of this long tunnel...d.l. has a lot to do with why this team is heading in the right direction...

i like the master plan d.l. has laid out...i truly hope he follows it and doesn't try for quick fixes...a la dave taylor...because that does not work....

but more than ever before, i realize that we, as fans, followers and believers love our team and care so much that we spend so much time dissecting them and playing armchair generals...it's great to read/see the passion of king's fans on this site...and i think we will have a contending/winning team sooner than later...and then we will all rejoice and praise each other with "i told you so"'s until the end of time...

Anyone but Spezza. Spezza is a girl.

number 6,

No offense, but I don't think you understood what I meant.

1. Labs was on the Kings team that was being lauded for over-achieving. Garon was getting outplayed by the guy I thought the Kings should acquire (Roloson) and a rookie.

2. We got Detroit's 2nd rounder for Stuart, which is the last pick in the 2nd round. Essentially, a 3rd rounder, IMO (plus, the wings won the cup with him/colorado won jack-shit with Foote back). I want to be the team that makes the other team feel like they got fleeced in a trade - like Colorado may have felt about the Foote deal for a 1st.

3. I didn't want Campbell, I wanted what SJ gave up to get him (a rentaplayer) which was Steven Bernier and a 1st round pick.

4. If it isn't about money, why do we waste so much of it getting rubbish players to come here while the one's who've proven themselves are sent packing? Why didn't Handzus, Calder, Preissing, Stuart, Cloutier, Nagy, McCauley, and Thornton all sign for 1 million a year? Why did we have to give Stoll and Greene hefty (and undeserved) raises in salary? Why do we have to give Doughty so much up front? Where's the commitment and desire to play for glory from these players? What has O'sullivan done that's all that special?

Variable, I always like your comments, and your sense of humor on the few game chats I've followed. I wanted to tell you (and everyone here) that on nhl home ice radio, Gary Greene just said something I found interesting. He suggested that as teams like Atl, the Kings, the Isles etc have cap room it would be logical for them to try and get a big name player now via trade as it will be very difficult for these teams in the off season to attract big name UFA's.

It makes sense. Though I personally feel it would be good to stand pat unless there is a very good deal to be had (the other GM's aren't stupid). The thing is some people on this blog are always saying when we grab Hossa or whoever during the offseason... really? What makes everyone think that Hossa or whatever other big names are going to be lining up waiting to come to LA. Unfortunately the team isn't strong enough yet to warrant that. That's why Hossa took a salary cut to go to Detroit. He wants to win a Cup. Maybe we will lure a good player, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

variable.

I'm not in favor of trading all our prospects (decent ones) for snipers like Kova and Heatly.
I'm in favor or going after the Mike Fishers instead, or, the "elite" prospects (like O'Sullivan was) like Colin Wilson, Cody Hodgson, or James VanRiemsdyk.

Cammy has been talked to death, but again you fall into the category of "didn't like the player and the attitude." I fall into the "like the players impact on the ice" category. I think my category is more relevant because all that matters is what happens on the ice.

Also, you seem to think Preissing and Calder are somewhere near that valuation of 2.7 million. I think that says it all. There is no way in hell that these two should be making anything more than 1 million a year, cap or no cap.

I'm not bashing DL, I'm just hoping he changes his strategy soon. I think he's devaluing our boys and NOT getting equal return in trading. And, I think you're opinion about trade-deadline value vs. draft day value all wrong.
Teams like Pittsburgh don't go trading away good young prospects for rent-a-players on draft day, they do it on deadline day.
It's the best day of the season to fleece those borderline playoff teams.
Finally, bash Dave Taylor all you want but just consider where this team would be without him having gotten Kopitar, Frolov, Brown, Cammy, and Lubo with nothing higher than an 11th overall pick amongst them.
If not for Taylor (and throw in Jon Quick while you count the blessings of Taylor) we'd be dead last in the league again.

One last startling note - Handzus has had his 2 worst seasons in the NHL, pretty much, here in LA. Even on a horrible Phoenix team he had better numbers most of the time.

cristobal, point taken about the 2nd from the Wings. That is true what you say. But (and this is not a criticism of you) but it's twisting things a bit in our own minds to say, oh I would have liked what they gave up for Campbell. Indeed, but the Reason they gave that up is they felt at the time like Campbell was the missing piece in their run to a possible Stanley Cup. If the Kings had had Campbell then we would have gotten Bernier and the 1st. But no one was gonna give that up for Cammi. Personally I don't think DL did all that badly in getting the Flames first last year for a guy who may or may not resign with them.

As far as the money thrown at some of the players we took as UFA's, yes obviously I agree with you. But like Variable pointed out, Dave Taylor left the Kings in a right state. Dave was a great player and great guy, but he unfortunately left the Kings in not very good shape. Even what people thought was a brilliant trade in Aaron Miller and Deadmarsh (but if one looked at Deadmarsh's injury history it's no surprise what happened). So in comes DL and while he has made some admittedly very poor decisions (see Cloutier, Preissing, Nagy) he's also had a vision as to how to build the team.

#6.

Cheers to that. I guess we can disagree about some things, but still (all of us chatting) just be hoping that things keep getting better.

I think my main point is that I want the Kings to make some positive moves by noon tomorrow and keep the cycle going. I want to be the team exploiting the hopes of others on the cusp of the playoffs.

The big issue is getting some more talent, hopefully elite talent.
Think back a few seasons to when Dallas was getting ready for the playoffs and actually traded Jerome Iginla to Calgary for Joe Neiwendyke. Amazing.

We need to go after elite prospects and hard-working vets.

I hope that after tomorrow we have at least one of these names in the Kings camp.

Colin Wilson
Cody Hodgson
Shattenkirk
Teddy Ruth
Mike Fisher
Eric Cole
Maxim Talbot
Dustin Tokarski
Tuomo Ruutu
Anton Volchenko
James VanRiemsdyk

or some high round picks for '09 or '10.

cristobal...

well, we agree to disagree about draft day vs. deadline day trades...

as for cammy, there are reasons for guys like him that put up points but are always looking for a home...way too many 30+/40+ goal scorers to name in the past have been moved for a variety of reasons...if there's any testament to michael and his situation, although calgary is somewhat strapped w/cap issues, why isn't daryl suter jumping to re-sign him? because he knows how much cammy wants...and from what i understand...cammy really wants to play for the maple leafs...so it might be a mute point...
and the other side of that is why isn't brian burke going after cammy if he supposedly wants to play in toronto? there are so many reasons that all of us are not privy to...i would guesstimate the answers to a lot of his questions are hidden in that scenario...

my preissing and calder "evaluations" are not mine, but were a realistic amount of money that gm's (all gm's) were willing to pay for them at the time...at the time, would i have spent $2.75mil on either? probably not...but i must admit i might be somewhat influenced now because of what has transpired...but it was apprx. fair market value for two veteran players who have put up respectable numbers in the past at the time...my exact quote was "$2.75mil for calds and preissing is also a bit high, but was closer to the fair market value" ...and i stand by that staement

and d.t. did do some great things for the franchise...however, his biggest weakness was exactly at this time...the trade deadline...as he would often hastily and, perhaps, nervously try to fill holes w/deals that were just not good long-term solutions and questionable short-term ones, as well...

number 6...

gary greene makes a good point...but i still believe it's better to make these decisions during draft day as gm's are more willing to part w/stars for the promise of d.p. towards the future of their teams...

and i did make the point about all these players wanting to be a 'king' before any deal is done...

i love the spirited discussion...!

Pat, Sarcasim...

Eat,

Fisher, Talbot, or Ruutu.

Nice choices, though.

variable.

One final thought about deadline day. Taylor got Gleason for Smolinski. That was a steal/robbery by us.
Taylor went after some proven scorers (anson, ronning) and it didn't pan out. Those players severely underachieved. But those types of moves helped Carolina win a cup when they rented Weight and Recchi.
Teams make those "playoff" moves every year.

cheers

Hi Cristobal. Listen, we all want the same thing, but where I have a problem with some of your comments is as follows: On the list of players you want to see in a Kings uniform after tomorrow you mention James VanRiemsdyk. Now Philly drafted him like three years ago? So why in the heck would they give him up. He's supposed to have the upside of a top goal scorer. Clearly they didn't draft him to say "hey let's help out the Kings... they're cool guys" so the Only other reason they would let him go when he hasn't even yet played (to the best of my knowledge, in the NHL), would be a repeat of the Roman Cechmanek rip off that everyone has tried to erase from memory.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear. When you state something like that it just sort of pokes holes in the rest of your suggestions. I'm sorry if I'm coming across hard, I really don't mean to, but think about it. I mean maybe I'm wrong... maybe it'll be a "straight across" trade.... Thomas Hickey (who obviously has never played an NHL game) for VanRiemsdyk.... need for need. But would you be happy about giving up Thomas Hickey in the highly unlikely eventuality that Philly would even accept that?

Dean Lombardi likes to watch everyone make trades and we have so much cap space. He should of made a trade when the Kings were like 3 points out of the playoffs. I think we need an all-star type caliber player to boost us into the playoffs. We need at least another top 6 forward and Maybe Goaltending b/c our Defense is pretty stable most nights.

I would make a Hickey for Van-R trade in a heartbeat.

I get what you mean, but I never said we'd get a great prospect for nothing. Perhaps Philly would take role-players if they thought it'd help in the post-season, but I doubt it.
We have a lot of good D prospects, if we could get a Hodgson, Wilson, or Van R for one, or a couple, of them, it may be workable.
Again, I'd like to see us get the best of someone. It's happened before (smolinski for gleason) and it can happen again.

Cheers. Good stuff.

Cristobal,

Just to address how you say you want to be on the team that can say we just fleeced that team in that trade. Might I remind you about the Johnson trade with Carolina. Its all about timing in trades such as that instance when trades are unfair. For example the O'Donnel trade was good timing at taking advantage of Anaheim's cap issues. Thats how you get steals and good values.

for the record...i meant to say "moot" rather than "mute" in a previous posting...

I don't think GM's discuss trades trying to fleece the other team. That's a good way to get hung up on before a conversation even gets started. Remember in the Gleason trade that the Kings had to accept Tverdovsky's contract, and I'm sure many of you were bitching because Oleg's best days were far behind him. Some people will never be happy...

GK'09.

The Canes got two good NHL players for Johnson, but that trade was forced by Johnson's desire to finish his College career and Carolinas unwillingness to wait.
It was a good trade for us as I believe in JJ now. I was on the fence until I saw him play this season. He looks like a solid player.
The O'Donnel trade wasn't really a fleecing, IMO. It was good for us at the time, but O'D is getting long in the tooth, and frankly, he's been somewhat poor-poor at times this season. Plus, if we dont' make the playoffs, he's been using time Harrold or some of the other younuns could have gotten. I think, though, that you are spot on when you say that it was good for us and very timely.
Good point.

cheers.