Williams update II

Too bad he can't play tonight, he and Ott could have a "cast fight"

boy...

won't jw be pleasantly surprised to know that kings fans are anxiously awaiting to hear from him...and even more so in getting him healthy and on the ice...

this is our second "frost/nixon" interview of the season, since rich recently did a stellar job in getting 13 answers from d.l. in the previous most important conversation of the season....

Thanks for all your hard work Rich! You are the F'in man!

haha! It was a "Frost/nixon" interview yesterday? I was picturing something more like "Winfrey/Cruise"! ;)

Does anyone know what time the Kings usually practice the day after games? Coming from the OC I don't want to miss it..

Im gonna re-post because I don't like be buried 70 deep from a previous post (only sort of sorry to all those this offends)

A couple of things on the trade.

1. The Kings are not going to make the playoffs barring a miracle performance, given their recent slide, tough remaining opponents, and grinding schedule. Playoffs are great, but is the 6, 7, or 8 seed and a 4-0 sweep to DET SJ or CAL really worth breaking the bank? IMO no. So if the guys get some bounces and sneak in great but im not holding my breath.

2. The Kings have 14! picks in this year's draft. Combined with an already strong farm system (thanks DL), there just may not be a ton of room in the system. The pick is gonna be a bottom 5 pick in the 2nd round anyway so its not like its gold. Didn't that pick travel through 4 teams in the span of an hour? Says something about its value.

3. Antropov is trash. Its a credit to Burke for motivating that bum to play decent enough to garner a 2nd. Antropov has none of the intangibles of JW (no playoffs, rings, 30 goal seasons)

4. JW was only available at this price bc he got hurt at a crucial time during the season. Cole was only available bc he wasn't producing at the rate expected of him. DL was under no such pressure. This should bode well for the Kings in this deal.

5. POS was playing on the THIRD line in the past couple of games. You cannot tell me that a third line guy is key to a playoff push. We have Oscar and Purcell who are not a significant downgrade right now. Why not let them play under a pressure situation. If POS and KOPI had amazing chemistry this trade never would have happened.

6. I go back and forth on POS. He had moments of greatness. But then he always blindly spun and shot the puck on net leading to a turnover. That happened at least once a game was unbelievably frustrating. I actually yell at my computer (live in DC now but watch almost every game on NHL centerice). Why didn't anyone tell him to get rid of that terrible habit! Seriously!?!!

7.The Kings are missing a sniper but it seems they keep trading away potential snipers (Cammy POS). Why? I actually have no idea. Maybe DL wants a better/proven one?

8. The Kings have a system and a defining ethos. Those two things are clearly in development but POS just didn't fit them. He should have better luck/success in a different atmosphere. EDM, who plays a faster style may actually be great for him.

9.JW has no long term injury concerns. Injuries are flukes. How can you predict when a guy is gonna tear an ACL? Is it genetic? A result of training and strength? I personally don't like the tag of injury-prone because I think it is vastly over hyped.

10. I doubt many read this far, but thanks to those who did. Let me know what you guys think.

"It's gonna be a big adjustment coming from LA were we don't get a whole lot of media attention or fans, um...you know...uh...really being involved away from the rink."

-Patio

Hmmm, guess he didn't visit inside the kings!

SPOT ON Ziggy!!!

Ziggy, I agree.

The Kings are doing something they have never done, build from the ground up. Putting in a system and an attitude. It will be (already is) exciting to see the developments.

Also, great work Rich.

Ziggy
I agree with you. I think the main reason you make this move is that Purcell and Moller are not really a downgrade to POS. It is much more difficult to find a goal scoring, power forward than it is to find a wing who can score when playing with two other talented forwards. I think this helps fit into the "team tough" attitude.

Hey Rich- When time allows you really need to get into the crazy details of how the trade was on then off and how DL has to lie to you to pull it off(understandable in my opinion).

In addition how does this affect your perspective on trade rumours? It sounds like what was a "crazy trade rumor" became true and I hate to use your own words against you but here's a quote from your post a while back where you said:

***My serious question is, why do people buy this stuff? Is it just sugary fun? Is this stuff really believable? If it's the former, I understand. Sports fandom, after all, is a hobby. If it's the latter, I honestly and sincerely hope that you re-evaluate how you get your news, not just about hockey but about everything happening in the world.***

I actually like the justin williams trade as well...sully was getting too predictable...from the same shootout move every time to the spin off of the half boards he would do every power play that was minimally effective. Williams bring a winning vibe to the locker room, and assuming we sign a great LWer in teh offseason and resign fro who likes these lines?

Frolov-Kopitar-Williams
LWer (maybe tanguay, booth, franzen)-stoll-brown
Moller-Hanzus-Simmonds
Purcell- Army-Boyle

Doughty-Johnson
Odonnel-Quincey
Green-Hickey/Teubert

I just want to say one more thing about this trade. Some people are questioning DL's recent free agent signings, saying that they are questionable players he brought it. Do you guys not remember that NO GREAT FREE AGENTS WANTED TO PLAY HERE???? We were terrible all the way up to LAST YEAR!! DL had to sign what he could to ice a team, and I think he was more worried about the draft than signing free agents, and he has done a better job than ANY other GM in past 2 years with what he had to work with. So now, since DL has done such a wonderful job drafting and bringing along players, more free agents will start wanting to play here...it just blows my mind how some people will just come on here and spew trash about something they know nothing about...and how soon some people forget what this team looked like 3 years ago...DL is the man, and you better get used to it becasue he's not going anywhere anytime soon....

No matter what anyone thinks of the trade, one thing is clear:

To be a consistent contender, the Kings need offensive cohesion/chemistry as well as defensive cohesion/chemistry. We have not had a consistent offense for two seasons (last season's 8 game losing streak mirrors the most recent slide, in a lot of low-scoring one goal losses). There is a consistent pattern of cycle-cycle-cycle without pressure in the crease, and a consistent lack of deflection-rebound goals. There has been significant improvement in goaltending and defense.

No matter what, win-or-lose with this trade, the Kings need to find and perfect the kind of offensive power a Stanley Cup contender has to be a winner, year after year.

wavesinair said:
"It's gonna be a big adjustment coming from LA were we don't get a whole lot of media attention or fans, um...you know...uh...really being involved away from the rink."

-Patio

Hmmm, guess he didn't visit inside the kings!

Ha! Dude, that is funny. Three things I want to add:

1.) Isn't POS notoriously shy? Have fun dealing with fans that have nothing to do but watch hockey, talk hockey and breath hockey. It's Edmonton Sully. Awesome.

2.) LA fans are fantastic and players generally realize how great we are as fans once they come here. Sully needs to put away that blind spot. Too bad for him he's going to miss out seeing what a great city this is once the team starts winning. Gretzky has pointed this out in the past.

3.) Does anyone remember the post from this site back when Jack Johnson played in the WJC and got severely booed by Canadians for a hard hit on one of the Canadian kids? I remember O'Sullivan commenting on it and saying that he hates Canada. Hates Canada. Dear Hockey Jesus, please let this quote get to fans up in the great white North. After all, these fans are so much more involved away from the rink then people in LA. Have fun Sully. Buy some extra blankets Linus. You're gonna need 'em.

JB...I'll be more than happy to address all of those issues when things calm down a little bit, or in an ``open forum'' or whatever, but there's one thing I wanted to address immediately, because it's a major point of irritation for me.

The original reporting of the Williams-to-L.A. deal came from the Toronto Globe and Mail. That's an actual newspaper, with actual reporters who do actual reporting. When I saw that, I immediately accepted it as a legitimate story. That's why I contacted Lombardi immediately, to see if it was true. I never, ever do that with one of the dozens (hundreds?) of yahoo rumors that get posted on various Internet sites. I certainly did not consider the Globe and Mail report to be a ``crazy rumor'' when I first read it. I dismissed it only after checking with Lombardi and being told (erroneously) by him that there was nothing to it.

So there's a big difference there. I can't tell you EXACTLY where the line is between legitimate reporting and online fluff. It's sort of a you-know-it-when-you-see-it thing, and it's also something learned from experience. In fact, this story a perfect example. That report ended up being true. Of all the hundreds of rumors on these various sites, how many ended up being true?

So to give a short answer to your question, it doesn't change my perspective at all. I will continue to respect sources that I believe to be legitimate, and completely ignore the rest.

Rich will he skate with a broken hand in practice? You dont need your hand to skate, I have played with a broke middle finger before Hurt like hell but I did it.

purcell isnt much of a downgrade? really? REALLY???

POS
GP62 G14 A23 P37 +-+1 PPG2 SHG1 ATOI19:25
Points Per Game .6
Purcell
GP22 G2 A7 P9 +--2 PPG0 SHG0 ATOI12:00
Points Per Game .4
Moller
GP32 G7 A7 P14 +--3 PPG5 SHG0 ATOI13:22
Points per game .44

So in 30/40 less games with less average ice time, Purcell and Moller are only averaging .2 less points per game. I also don't think line combinations are that important because they have been so erratic. All three have both been top line and 4th line players so that is in my mind a wash. So no not a significant downgrade. Oh and Moller is better on the PP

Well living in Seattle I can't turn on the news and see what is going on with the Kings unless I go on the web. When I went online this morning and I saw Patrick O'Sullivan traded from Carolina to Edmonton first thing that came to my mind was our Patrick, but I couldn't see anything else, then I saw the Kings traded him. This trade make me really angry.

This is another Cammelleri trade, he was young and fitting in and before he has develop they get rid of him! Frolov was always in trade rumors because he wasn't playing to his pontential, but look at him now. The patience payed off and look at him play. It just seems we love to get rid of snipers and offensive talent.

Remember Jimmy Carson? We got him back, he was a proven scorer and instead of playing, Melrose basically benched him. For whatever reason Melrose didn't like him. Here for whatever reason, be it the contract nonsense of earlier or whatnot, they trade Sully.

Williams may be a good player, but what good is he if he is always hurt. Tomas Sandstrom was a great effective player when healthy, but most of the time he was injured. Alisson and Deadmarch, well those where flukes, but some players just find a way to get injure and that is what I see in Williams.

This trade screams "Old-Time Kings Sellers". Argh!!!!

Watching the NHL Network yesterday they were evaluating the trade and they had nothing but great things to say about O'Sullivan and couldn't understand why the Kings would trade a guy who has so much youth, skill and upside for a guy who's injured and a shell of what he used to be. They basically said the Oilers are going to love this guy and the Kings will end up regretting ever doing this.

stang:

and who was saying that on the NHL Network? Gary Green? ya we already know how much respect he has for the Kings after his remark about our chances to beat Washington on the last road trip. Not a very good source for you to report a quote from...

stang: OK, and that's great and all. Should I start booing Williams now or wait until he... you know... plays?

Rich,
Almost all rumors are of *discussions* (this team is going after that player, this team is shopping this player, this player for that player is being discussed, etc.). Most discussions don't turn into trades. Since you're so close to Lombardi, go and ask him how many of his trade discussions with the other 29 GMs actually turn into trades. He'll likely tell you that only a very small percentage do. Magnify that over the entire league and, naturally, only a very small percentage of all rumors/discussions are going to result in trades. Some rumors are probably misinformed or just made up, but it's stupendously irrational to use the ratio of rumors that did turn into trades to rumors that didn't as justification of anything (let alone one's contempt for "illegitimate" sources). Ask Lombardi what your ratio would be if you managed to learn of and leak every trade discussion that he has.

tantrum:

Whether you think someone is credible or not is irrelevant. Who are you? If you want to disagree with a guys opinion that's your right. Justin "IR" Williams has a lot to prove right now. DL put the onus on him so we'll see if he's that guy they payed heavy for. I sincerely hope he is but this STH is not happy and think we came out on the short end of it because our asset isn't playing when we need him most.

Rich- I guess from a fan's perspective what I'm trying to say is the reason we sometimes buy the most insane stuff is it all appears the same when it comes to reliability. Between "credible media" or guy in a basement in Medicine Hat when it comes to trades it's all a crapshoot.

"Credible media" (LeBrun, Dreger, Spector, Strachan) had basically said guys like Bouwmeester, Pronger or Niedermayer and Smyth were for sure moving.

Would you have even considered asking DL during your last interview the following question, "Would you trade O'Sullivan for Jason Spezza?"

I wouldn't ask DL that question because 1) he wouldn't really answer and, 2) three days ago that sounded absurd to me because Spezza ain't that great IMO.

Instead we trade him for Justin Williams? Once I heard it explained I was ok because I get needing to find the right fit. But 3 days ago that to me would have been just as crazy as Sully for Spezza.

I am still so pissed I have to leave another comment
career stats ( this is there pro career which includes minors )
JW games- 731 goals- 199 points- 519
POS games- 732 goals- 308 points- 717
you tell me straight up who's a better player
forget the injury and draft pick straight up. POS had success and will have it at every level. JW just had a couple of great line mates for two years. we got hosed I am so upset. I am so tired of watching good players leave. think about this we traded Demitra and Conroy for this scrub. thats right I said scrub. I bet POS is point a game from here on out and JW might get .25 a game. what a joke.

Let's send Anthony to pick him up. He can hold up his sign that says BUST as he arrives.

OK did I read this right in Elliot's piece re: WIlliams being 5'11" adn 161 pounds? If that were the case then DL needs to explain how that makes us "bigger on the wings".

He is listed online as 6'1" and 195 pounds so please tell me Eliott is either blind or mis-typed!

"When they told me I was coming here and that I was going to be one of the older guys I kind of had to take that aback a little bit and realize that I'm going to be a more veteran guy on this team," said Williams, who is listed at 5 feet 11 and 161 pounds but looks smaller.

JB, re Elliot:

When the Williams trade was first rumored I searched around and there was one source (maybe ESPN) that listed him at 5'11", and others at 6'1". I am not a Williams expert, having seen him play maybe 10 times (on TV) over -- what -- six or seven years, but he always seemed medium-big to me. Maybe the Carolina site lies about his size, upgrading him a little bit. Maybe he just plays so much bigger that people think he's bigger than he is. Holmstrom, for example, is only six feet tall, and I would certainly have said he was 6'2". We can of course take a tape measure to Williams when he gets here.

But I think it's important to note the snark in Elliot's piece. She undoubtedly has seen the same numbers that -- for example -- I have, and she knows that Lombardi is touting the size upgrade. Yet she made a conscious choice to report only the 5'11" number, not the Canes number or for that matter the one on the Kings site. If she had only reported the 5'11" without the additional "and he looks smaller," I would have thought she's just sloppy. But the additional snark tells me that she's editorializing and has an ax to grind here. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say she's unhappy with the way DL manipulated Rich as the trade played out.

Seriously, to say that he looks smaller than 161lbs is objectively laughable on its face. I am 6' tall myself, and haven't been 161 lbs since I was 14, and at that weight the idea that I could have been a physical presence in juniors, to say nothing of the NHL, is mock-worthy. Either she has no ability to judge these things, or she's intentionally getting in a dig at DL and Williams. The latter, I think it's pretty obvious.

I would also note that, in the Edmonton paper, to which she gave an interview about POS's attributes, even she had to say he doesn't play a physical game and is most likely to score from off to the side.

It's unprofessional for reporters to insert their own feelings into a straight news article, but many sports writers do it all the time. The place for that, if anywhere, is a gossip column or an editorial.

Elliot follow-up:

My mistake, it was a column, not a straight news article, so her opinion is obviously appropriate and my criticism in the last paragraph above was out of line. But I still agree with myself on the rest of it.

Elliot follow-up-follow-up:

Okay, now that Rich reports Williams is closer to 5'11" I'm left only with the "and he looks smaller" comment. I retract my entire anti-snark.