They’re No. 26

With Toronto’s victory and Phoenix’s shootout victory, the Kings finished 26th in the NHL this season. With the fifth-worst record, they still have a chance — albeit a small one — at landing the No. 1 pick in the draft, through the lottery.

26. Kings
27. Atlanta
28. Colorado
29. Tampa Bay
30. N.Y. Islanders

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  • josh e.

    Cmon Lucky Luc!

  • Quisp

    Evander Kane. Evander Kane.

  • blugator

    Wow, I was really proud of the way the Kings played against the Sharks, but disappointed that they lost position for the draft. As it turned out, I’m glad that they ended up at 26. It sure is great that all three teams (LA, Phoenix, and Toronto) showed they were not tanking for position. It says a lot for the game, and the people playing it. It’s good to be a hockey fan.

  • Johnny Utah

    trade trade trade

  • -J

    You know, the 29th ranked team has never won the lottery and picked first overall, so perhaps that “number” is due. That said, i’m going to be real pissed if Tampa gets first this year. They totally tanked it at the year, just like they did last year. The NHL need to revise the lottery, and have a weighted draft where every team that doesn’t make the playoffs has a chance to win the lottery and move up to first. That is the only way to prevent teams from tanking.

    I could see the kings taking MSP if he’s still available at 5th, otherwise, kane, schenn, or even cowen, if there still building D.

  • variable

    j…

    i’m w/ you…

    but it’s m.P.s.

    magnus paajarvi-svensson…

  • Quisp

    kane kane kane.

  • variable

    quispy…

    it’s not like i’d be upset if we were to somehow get evander ‘don’t bite my ears” kane…

    i just think he’s going to go 4th or 5th…if he does, i really like us getting m.p.s…

    if he doesn’t go before then, kane is a great pick, as well…

    but something tells me that d.l. might trade that first rounder before we even get the chance to pick….

  • -J

    Variable- it’s usually Magnus Svensson-Pjrvi. I’ve seen it both, but it’s almost always MSP. Take a look at sweden’s U-18 roster (http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/199/IHM1990SWE_33_1_0.pdf) for instance.

  • variable

    j…

    no harm, no foul…

    but i think in north america, he’s going with m.p.s…

    either way, we know who we’re talking about…!

  • jet

    Quisp – Kane with the first pick? 1 in 12, this is no time to lose the power of positive thinking.

  • jet

    BTW Quisp- I saw Kassian in a top ten list in a mock draft, I think you saw this one early.

  • variable

    anybody see that BU comeback vs. miami of ohio???

    what a game and finish…

    with about 1:06 left and down 3-1, BU pulls their goalie and scores 2 in 46 seconds to send it into overtime…

    then, BU wins it in o.t. on a shot which deflects off of a miami player and flutters unseen into the net…

    tough way to lose…but what a comeback to win the title by BU…!

  • JDM

    Kane or Trade* or Kane or Trade* or Kane or Trade*.

    I’m happy.

    *for Kovalchuk

  • Quisp

    Well, I don’t know if I have a problem with Mangus Svengali. I have no memory of him, but I assume he’s gifted. I love Evander Kane and Matt Duchene, and — as it is highly likely (about 75% chance) that we will pick 5th, it is a certainty that one of those three kids will be there. Tavares and Hedman will go 1,2. Which of the next three land in which order I don’t know. Does Brayden Schenn jump in there? Cowan? Maybe. I don’t think DL is going to trade that pick. I think he’s going to pick one of those three (maybe Cowan though, that wouldn’t be too shocking either) and enjoy one more year of making our prospect pool just the sickest thing out there.

    On some days I really think DL should pick Matt Duchene, who is truly gifted offensively and I wonder if he couldn’t make the team in the fall. He’s 5’11″ but 205 lbs (!!) with elite speed and…I’m getting myself all worked up.

    But allow me to change the subject (although it’s still the same BIG subject: next year)…

    Edmonton is in disarray. Their coach is probably going to get canned. Everyone is blaming everyone else. And nobody likes Dustin Penner. I know, I know. There are or may be issues. My question is, lets say DL can’t get Hossa (who is the prototype of the 2way topline forward he wants). It might be possible to get Penner from Edmonton at a discount, just so they can be rid of that big albatross contract. DL wants to get bigger and meaner on the wings. DL wants scoring. Penner provides those two things.

    I expect Edmonton will try to unload Penner this summer, or at least will listen to offers. Because in their state they will listen to all offers.

    My honest question, since I still have residual respect for Penner as a prospect, and residual hatred of him from when he was a Duck, is: should DL steer clear or should he make a deal for Penner?

    I genuinely don’t know if it’s a good idea. But you could end up with something like this:

    Frolov/Kopitar/Williams
    Penner/Stoll/Brown
    Lewis/Handzus/Simmonds
    Wudrick/Moller/Purcell

    Maybe I’m a mental patient. But that looks like an upgrade to me. Of course, the million dollar question is, who do we deal to get him? I think the obvious answer would be Jack Johnson.

    And I’m not crazy about dealing Jack Johnson. I think he will end up being a big deal.

    But in the Penner math, I don’t see anyone else Edmonton would covet who we might be willing to part with.

    Also, p.s., why not just drop Evander Kane onto that Moller/Purcell line. Purcell/Kane/Moller. There’s some tertiary scoring for you.

    Seriously, thoughts?

  • JDM

    Quisp,

    Penner?

    Really?

    ………….

    Really?

    God no. There are infinitely more options available better than Penner, for so many reasons. His trade value may be discounted, but his cap hit isn’t.

    You’ve had a lot of very good and intruiging ideas Quisp, but I can’t endorse this as one of them.

  • variable

    quispy….

    if we were to somehow get evander “watch yr teeth” kane…no problem…great snag…!

    but:
    1.) i doubt he’s going to be there by then
    2.) i agree w/you as i said in the previous post that d.l. is probably going to trade the pick for who knows what at this point
    3.) if neither of the aforementioned situations come to fruition, i really love m.p.s….he’s the real deal and as a 17 year-old competing against 18/19 year-olds, he was the best player on sweeden’s wjc goal winning team…he had 2&5 in 6 games…he even was as good as hedman, in a different capacity, of course…

    i agree with you…and yr thoughts about jj…here and on yr own site…

    i think what we both said is that he’s worth about $2.75 mil per year and that’s as high as we should go…so, yes, i think if he and his agent want more…i’m sorry to say it like this because i like him, but,…hit the road,jack…although, i hope we can keep him under said circumstances…

    as for penner…

    i’m just not a big fan of his…

    maybe under the scenario you suggest, he would perform…

    but i think if we can’t get the top high-impact scorer we want…there are some good b/b+/a- players out there ready to be had…

  • Quisp

    JDM –

    I wouldn’t elevate it to the level of “idea.” It’s just a musing, and as I said, I’m fairlly conflicted about it. In any case, after I hit “submit” I realized that my interest in Penner is really just my impatience waiting for Geordie Wudrick, LW of Penner’s size who is my write-in candidate for “next year’s Simmonds.” And Wudrick is 8 years younger than Penner. He might not be done growing. 6’4″ 215lb, turned 19 two days ago.

  • JDM

    Quisp,

    I’m excited for Wudrick too. However I’m not expecting him to make a dent in the team for another 3-4 years. I would think its another year of juniors and then one or two of the AHL for him.

    Sorry for being a little overly sarcastic in making my point on my feelings about Penner.

    I like the idea of Hartnell for that role, but he has a NTC I believe. I would prefer DL throw an offer sheet at Clowe than even let the name Penner cross his mind in a dream. But I doubt that too. In terms of realistic possibilities, Knuble would be better than Penner, though I would still be very upset if that were the only addition.

    So long as we are talking about second or third tier players, I would look at Hagman, who seems to play a pretty rough and tumble drive to the net game, though he isn’t the largest of men, he’s not small.

    But really all this moot to me. I will be disturbed with anything short of a top 3 winger. We have lots of second liners, I want a first liner.

    Now if we are talking Calder replacements, these are all fine ideas.

  • Jayrew

    Draft Evander Kane and trade him for Drayson Bowman & a pick. I’ll take a winner

  • variable

    here’s a couple of second-tier players that might be for the offing if the price is right for us…:

    (in no order)

    1. maxim afinogenov
    2. david moss
    3. jere lehtinen
    4. alex tanguay
    5. steve sullivan
    6. petr sykora
    7. ruslan fedotenko
    8. miroslav satan
    9. brian gionta
    10. sammy pahlsson (i don’t think he signed a contract yet w/chicago)
    11. the sedin twins
    12. dominic moore
    13. mike knuble
    14. bill guerin
    15. todd bertuzzi
    16. eric cole
    17 keith tkachuk
    18. chris neil
    19. brendan morrison
    20. jordan leopold
    21. saku koivu
    22. mike comrie
    23. jay bouwmeester
    24. niclas havelid (have two!)
    25. derek morris

    i’e left out a few of the more obvious ones…but these are a pretty good list of 2nd/3rd tier players available…

  • Small Waves

    Variable

    #23-Jay Bouwmeester 2nd tier?

  • variable

    there are a couple of first tiers on there…sedin twins, j-bo…so yeah…i put a couple of others on there…

    thanx, small waves…

  • -J

    For those not familiar, MSP is considered by many to the most talented offensive player beyond tavares and is also a pretty well rounded forward. Only 17, he’s currently representing Sweden for the second time in the U-18 and he’s also represented sweden twice at the U-20 level.

    variable- it MSP over here too: hockeysfuture, ISS, wiki, hockeydb, etc all have it as MSP. But his own team’s site in sweden has it MPS. Go figure.

    BTW- the U-18 WJC is going on right now in North Dakota (great location on that one). The games are being streamed on-line through USA Hockey’s website (usahockey.com)for a small fee. A bunch of the top prospects for this year are playing in the tourney so it’ a good chance to see them.

    Absolutey, Positively, and without exception, NO to Penner

  • JDM

    While I think we need Kane’s game, an MSP-Moller-Brown line wouldn’t be anything to snear at!

  • Quisp

    -J

    No to Penner. Who’s idea was that?

    re MSP(S) –

    some think Duchene is the #2 offensive talent behind Tavares. But I don’t have a clue, really. My own prejudices this time around (which might change, of course, since I have limited exposure to most of these kids) is I don’t like Hedman and I’m not crazy about Schenn. Kane, Duchene, MSPSPSPSS, even Cowan maybe, these kids are all pretty exciting.

  • AK47

    Kassian has the size we’ve been lacking at winger. I think if we draft Cowen, he is traded, along with Boyle and Frolov to Atlanta for Kovalchuk, real talk. If DL thinks he’s better off signing Hossa or Gaborik or Havlat, than he drafts an offensive player (Kane, Schenn, Kassian, Schroeder). Jordan Schroeder is possibly the best fit for this team after Zack Kassian.

    Another kid who’s flying under the radar, Tavares’ linemate in London, Nazem Kadri, who is a lebanese born player.

  • Colin

    I’ve been a diehard Kings fan for 20+ years.

    If we trade for or sign Todd Bertuzzi, I will cease to be a Kings fan.

  • Colin

    Also, any deal made for Kovalchuk will almost for sure be done before the draft and will probably involve our 1st round (top 5) pick, one of our current top proven talents (Frolov), and a defensive prospect (Hickey, Teubert).

  • -J

    Quisp-

    “No to Penner. Who’s idea was that?”

    Huh???’

    AK47- I wouldn’t say Kadri is under the radar (though he probably is to most fans). He got some good attention last year and was pretty heavily scouted this year. He’s put up pretty decent, not spectacular, numbers without Tavares. IMO, he’s rated too high, should be a mid to low first rounder, not top 10 in this draft.

  • Matt George

    Collin:

    What makes u think that trade would happen before draft day and ps: I like that idea even tho I want teubert on the team

    Please everyone…no gabrik… I got a bad feelin bout that one

  • matt

    Kovalchuk will NOT be traded.

  • http://www.forestfamilies.se McSorley

    I’d for sure take MPS if he’s still available at number 4 (hopefully we’ll get a small win on the lottery and get to pick at #3 or 4. Then we can trade down a position of two for some adiitonal draft picks and then take for example Glennie or Schroeder.

  • src3

    If we are to take DL at his word/words, then Kovolchuk does not fit the DL/TM mold. Not a strong enough 2 way player. My take on DL comments are Hossa or bust. He is a legit 2 way player. However Gabby comes from a 2 way system and probably somewhat fits the mold (lacking size and strength), but then there is the M.A.S.H. unit factor.

    DL is looking for a keith thachuk. There are none out there. Penner/Harnell are close, but agree they are 2nd tier.

    1. MPS
    2. Gritty LW
    3. Replacement for Ivanans (neil-but not at 2+, maybe 1.75 for short term with Clune coming in soon. Or as mentioned Wudrck etc.

    However all is contingent on JJ and Fro contracts. If Fro is a rental because he wants 7/yr, then trade him. If he will stay for 5 mil and 4+ years then keep him. I would love to keep him, but he is not 7 mil matriel IMO. Heatley is signed for 4 more years at 7.5. Handzus salary will be gone in 3 years. Or Boyle steps up and makes Zues expendable after next year. Same goes for JJ-2.5 for 2 years to prove his worth or trade him. Ottawa and PHI need to dump salary badly. Hence Heatley and Hartnell. Both PHI and Ottawa need back end help and goalie prospects. Then does JJ, Purcell and our first get Heatley and a pick or Fro and our 1st get Heatley? Or does Berier factor in here?

    I dont know, but april 14th will tell us alot. Do we pull a rabbit out our a**s with lucky Luc at the helm and get the nr. 1?? This changes things drastically, or do we get Duc., Kane or MPS?

  • AK47

    There’s no way Heatley’s asking price is Purcell, Jack Johnson and a 1st. Even Frolov and a 1st doesn’t get Heatley at all. I live in Ottawa and the people here rave over what Heatley can do. Look at how bad of season the Ottawa Senators are having but he still managed to put up 39 goals. That’s the mark of a solid sniper.

    The only way we get Heatley is if we offer Frolov, Teubert, Boyle and a 1st. I don’t see us making such a trade because we’ll have a huge open spot at the second line winger.. It makes more sense to sign a guy in the off-season then to trade for one because almost any team will be asking for Frolov in return and that just puts us in a huge hole.

    Heatley/Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Williams
    ?-Stoll-Brown
    Lewis-Handzus-Simmonds
    Parse-Moller-Purcell

    Now this would be our lineup if we were to sign a top name UFA..

    Gaborik/Hossa/Havlat-Kopitar-Williams
    Frolov-Stoll-Brown
    Lewis-Handzus-Simmonds
    Parse-Moller-Purcell

    I really want to see what this Corey Elkins is about though..

    And what about Davis Drewiske? I guess he’s really found a spot on the team, so make that 3 spots available for next season instead of 4..

  • src3

    AK
    I agree, it would cost a pretty price for heatley. Not saying we should do it. Hell kovalchuk would cost more and does not fit the type of player DL is looking for. Neither does havlat. So, for me all speculating aside….It should be Hossa and maybe Gabby depending on what kind of out clauses I could get, due to injury history. Other than that I would not trade the farm for Heatley or Kovu. Will be interesting to see what happends. Think maybe Denno had his heart set on Franzen?!

    AK…do you think that Boyle is gone? Agree in that Drewiske, avoiding a meltdown in camp just made the team. If Hickey makes the team as well…….that is 7 and with Harrold 8. With Voynov and crew right behind. This smells like potential trade time. I Dont get me wrong I like JJ and wish the best, but…..it will be an interesting summer.

  • src3

    Another little question for ya AK or Quisper, or Variable or whom ever…….Your 4th line suggestions leave out an Ivanans type. Do we really believe TM wont find, and place a knuckle dragger out there??? Moen or Neil is that enough?, we really dont have any other brawlers in the lineup.

    So according to the DL board, we need a top 6 LW with 30 goal potential and grit or potentially 2 if he feels Fro is lacking cajones and consistancy and the Kings tatoo on his butt. We need a third line LW with good 2 way skill and prowess in the corners (Lewis, Purcell) and a potential fighter with more upside than Ivanans. I stil have trouble fingding a spot for Purcell in the long term. See Moller as nr 2 center in 2 years. dont see Purcell as nr. 6 forward. Is the defense set with the signing of JJ.?

  • 4thlinechecker

    AK47,
    I watched Elkins in practice pretty closely, and he did not seem anywhere near ready for the NHL… Just my opinion after watching one practice, so it might not mean too much….. I also think they would have gotten him into a game if they really thought he was close.

    Bring in Chris Neil……. I also would’nt mind getting Penner at a discount. He was great in anaheim

  • KENNYnakamoto

    Hey guys great information =D wHATS going on variable!!!
    anyways can you guys answer some questions for me?
    1st question: when is the lottery pick?
    2nd question: what are the percentages for the 5 teams
    i remember bob miller last year said that the worst team has a 45% chance 2nd worst team was 20 something percent so I’m wonder what our chances are.

    anyways you guys saw what happened to the chicago bulls in their lottery draft in the nba right? i believe they had a 2% chance and got it!!! so theres always a chance

  • Bernie9

    The Lottery is Tuesday, April 14th. And remember we won’t know who we’re signing in Free Agency on Draft Day because Free Agency starts about a month after the Draft.

  • Big A

    Kenny -

    The odds on getting the first pick fall pretty much like this (1st to 5th, obviously):

    48% / 19 / 14 / 11 / 8-> = LA Kings

    Note that the Isles really only have a 25% chance of officially “winning” the lottery, but since lottery teams can only move up 4 spots, their odds of ending up with that first pick are considerably higher.

  • variable

    what’s up, k-man!

    glad you joined the party…

    RICH….

    if you can let us know when yr going to call it a season with yr last comment/story, that would be great…

    it would be interesting to read/hear everybody’s last salvo before we call it (due to the mercy rule – no playoffs)

    and i’m sure you would get yr much deserved congratulatory testimonials on how you made this season much more relevant to all of us crazies…

    but if it’s all over for you/us at this point…:

    THANK YOU
    THANK YOU
    THANK YOU
    THANK YOU
    THANK YOU

    you have made we, fans, extremely proud and of value…

    you have found a way to organize all of us who care…

    you have made it seem like christmas/hanukah/kwanza (religion equity) all season long…

    i cannot thank you enough…

    this was my first year participating in such a spectacle…and regardless of where you decide to hold this lil’ shindig, i’ll be there supporting it…

    enjoy the pleasure and perils of yr job and the newspaper…you and yr job are a dying breed…hopefully not for a bit longer, though…

    thank you a million times over…and a million more after that…!

  • RenoKingsFan

    Off topic but how many of you think that Andy Murray deserves coach of the year this year?

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    Ditto that, VARIABLE!

    I can’t imagine the emptiness without a RichBlog on the Kings. This is also my first season, came on about halfway through, and I have never enjoyed a 34-37-11 season more than this one. The insights are incredible, Rich’s interviews are hotter-than-hot, and the companionship is indispensible. I know I am no longer alone in my love of the Crown Boys and see hope for their future, finally!

    Now I hope Rich will keep this site up through the playoffs and revisit it during the Draft Days. No matter what, Rich, may Fortune smile upon you in your future endeavors!
    :) /BakoCACondorsKingsFan

  • cristobal

    I cast my vote for JORDAN SCHROEDER.

    The kid is a talent.

    If not for the meltdown of the USA goalie (owned by Detroit) the USA would have been shining in gold and Schroeder and Wilson would be the talk of the hockey world.

    I like Magnus.

    But my sleeper pick for maybe a later round is the Czech defender RADKO GUDAS –looked like a pure competitor.

    No on Evander Kane.

  • CanadianKing

    Here’s a question..

    Assuming DL picks up a top-six forward, where on earth does Moller fit? or Purcell for that matter? I really don’t see Moller on the third line so does he play in Manchester next year? Looking down the roster I see alot of second line players. Where does everyone fit?

  • CanadianKing

    No on Jordan Schroeder. He’s listed as 5’8″ and probably is even smaller than that. I’d say we have enough small forwards.

    Yes on Evander Kane.

    PS: terribly sorry but USA couldn’t have touched Canada at that tournament.

  • Big A

    You beat me to it, CanadianKing. Not worth risking it on someone that small. For every Patrick Kane, there are 10 guys that size that never make the league, or at best end up with low minutes. Schoeder is no Patrick Kane, at least not at the moment.

  • cristobal

    Jiri Hudler is small.
    Patrick Kane is small.
    Mike Cammalleri is small.
    Danny Alfredsson isn’t so large.
    Jonathan Cheechoo is a minnow…
    Martin St. Louis…

  • src3

    CanadianKing

    Moller/purcell-Been wondering about that myself.

    I see Moller as the 4th line RW if Boyle gets re upted and centers the 4th line. I see Moller centering the 4th line if Boyle gets dumped and then graduates to the 2nd line in 2011, with Stoll going to the 3rd. But Teddy……….I dont know. Not gritty enough for the shut down line and not good enough in the corners to get 2nd line time. Both Moller and Purcell have done well on the PP. Purcell only produced when together with Kopi and Fro.

    I also see a little Zues jr. in Boyle if the smarts and heart are there. He has hands and could be instrumental in front of the net on the PP if his defelction skills are up to par. He sure tried to make a statement the last 2 weeks. 3 years, 2 way 1 mil-I would go for that. my 4th line: Moen/Neil ufa-Boyle-Moller

    I see DL going after a gritty 2nd line LWer. Forcing Fro-Kopi-Brownie to pick it up a notch. Agree with Quisp that Lewis should make it on the Zues – simmer line next year.

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    Let’s just take a minority point of view for the moment…

    What happens if the Kings DON’T sign the top scorer as free agent, and they DON’T make a trade for a top scorer, and they DON’T draft an NHL ready scorer? I mean, do the Kings take steps backwards if they stand pat?

    When you look at the raw team data, the things that stands out are: a): the Kings can’t score 5-on-5 (114 goals only, worst in the league); b): the Kings standing on goals against, penalty kill goals, and road goals allowed are good enough to be in the playoffs RIGHT NOW, if only the Kings were average in goals scored. Why not take DL’s words at face value, for a moment? Suppose the players already on the team DID make the improvement that DL practically begs them for? Is it so unreasonable for a young team to be motivated to improve? I think of Simmonds’ answer to Rich’s question–that he needed to be bigger and stronger for the upcoming season.

    The team was, on Jan 16, 17-19-7, home/road: 13-10-6/4-9-1. The team finished 17-18-4, home/road: 5-5-2/12-13-2. Final record, 34-37-11, home/road: 18-15-8/16-22-3. In the first half of the year (first 43 games) the Kings split times between three goalies, played most of their games at home, and lost a large number of one goal games. They were also -5 games above .500 on the road. In the second half of the year (last 39 games), the Kings played Jonathan Quick nearly exclusively, played most of their games on the road, and were -1 games above .500 on the road. Ersberg did not win a game during this stretch (I don’t believe), from Jan 16 to the end of the season.

    In short, the Kings couldn’t score without a power play, rarely came from behind, yet were 12-13-2 on the road during a stretch when the pundits totally wrote the team out of contention.

    The question is: which trend is the true Kings? Are they a poorly-skilled team which has to shut teams down like Minnesota or Columbus to win a game? Are they a soft team that just can’t find the will to win DESPITE their skill? Or, as I believe, they are actually an inordinately YOUNG team, which hasn’t discovered its innate ability to dominate a game… yet?

    If the Kings are the latter, then the best thing to do is… nothing at all. Keep all the room you can underneath the cap, challenge your young leaders to grow and LEAD, and let nature take its course. Yes, that may mean the Kings don’t make the playoffs next year. However, the skills of the current players will have one more off-season to grow and mature, and the effects of good coaching will become more apparent. Some of those errant passes will connect; more of those wide shots will hit the net. There will be no savior coming to save the day; the existing players will be forced to improve or fear being traded. Quick will have one more year to mature. The fate of Bernier will be determined. Cliche will finally have a healthy year…

    …And, with room underneath the cap plus poor overall standings, DM might be able to make another pick-up like the one that gave us Quincey from Detroit. A lot of teams are up against the cap, and may have to surrender a young player to make a deal near opening night.

    I know that is unpopular, but perhaps that is the most realistic option to consider.

    Opinions, guys?

  • src3

    Quisper…..got one for ya. You have broken down the Det cap situation beautifully.

    Now look at Pitt. They have 46.8+ spent and have 4 forwards, 2 D men and 1-Goalie to sign next year. Satan is not returning. Sykora is a must return IMO, but will want a little more than 2.5/yr. That puts them at aprrox 50mil. and 6 more to sign. Eaton is replaceable, but only costs 2 mil according to my figures. Ouch!!!

    Then you have the PHI situation-Hartnell availability as per your Penner example.

    I know variable diagreed with me, but does this make malkin possibly available?? Would Staal be our gritty 2nd line LW? Who goes?

    Whattcha think?

  • src3

    Bako-

    yeh, I dont disagree and feel that DL was saying the same thing. Preparing us impatient fans for the cold reality that he wont pay 8+ mil for Hossa or Gabby when the other nuts and bolts are not in place yet.

    Side note, was in on a Minn blog and Gabby was unhappy with the Lemaire system-not being able to show what he can do. Is this what we want, not to mention the band aid factor again.

    Hey Kovulchuk will be a free agent in 2011. Maybe DL will wait, dump Fro at the deadline if not resigned to a resonable figure and then boyaa!!!! At this point we know where this years first rounder is along with Wudrick, Cameron, Azev. and Teubert etc etc

  • Quisp

    src3 –

    I read DL’s comment a little differently. My interpretation was, if he can get Hossa (who is his type of player) he will, but he’s not going to sign someone who is not his type of player, or who doesn’t fit his plan, just because he’s available. Whether the “not my type” player is Gaborik or Havlat or whoever, I have no idea, but I can imagine.

    Re Pit and the cap, I will have to look at that after I make dinner for the family…

  • variable

    BAKO…

    great insights…

    i agree with what yr saying…do we benefit more by doing it straight outta manchester/ourselves…

    if we do get that missing link we’ve all been lobbying for, what does that really do…?

    d.l. sometimes contradicts himself…saying things like that it’s better to look within the organization…and then is quick to call frolov a “rental” (?) player…that’s a bit confusing…if you were to build from within, then there should be no question in keeping a player like frolov…30+ goal scorers don’t grow on trees…again, look at all the players fro was ahead of despite him being miscast for the majority of the season…

    i guess it’s a fair scenario to keep things relatively the same…we have tried the “the sniper” in the past…ziggy, demitra, audette, straka, etc. to no avail…did those players make us a contending team for more than just a stretch of a season? i think the answer to that question is obviously a resounding “no”…and i liked ziggy and pavol (the donald…not)…too many other quick fixes too mention that didn’t work out…

    i mean…does kovy make sense? hossa? gabby? we can play the name game all day…i’m sure that one of these players would probably do wonders for us…but at what expense?

    i think that if are going to get a game changer/top player to make us better, a good example would be what pittsburgh and ray shero did at the deadline…picking up the important puzzle pieces to make an existing good team that much better…and i guess gauging how far/close we are to being a contending team is tough to do…that’s why training camp is soooo important next season…we might already have everything we need…

    who knows…i might change my mind tomorrow…(?)…i’m a bit hungover today…lol…

    SRC3…

    it’s not that i’m against getting malkin…that we be unreal…

    and i think that’s my point…

    pittsburgh would be craaaaazy to do that…i just don’t see that as an option unless things go nuts w/the penguins and they somehow implode…

    vinny in tampa, though, we be a big score for us, if their crazy ownership group is looking to trade him…martin st. louis is a very good player…i just don’t think he’s the same w/out vinny…

  • Big A

    Cristobel -

    When someone compares a maybe 5’8″ player to Daniel Alfredson it really puts their credibility on the line. Alfie is definitely over 5’10″, and he’s solid and tough. Miles and miles from a guy that is 5’7″ – 5’8″ and maybe 160 wearing gear.

    As I originally mentioned Patrick Kane as the exception to t the rule, by all means include him on your short list. Thing is, he was also a consensus number 1 pick, while Schoeder is barely top 10 atm. You can’t ignore that difference in skill level. At a minimum, DL would be a fool to pick someone that far out of order without trading down (I know, he did that with TH two years ago).

    The other valid shorter guys on that list are either in the East, can brawl, or on teams where size is not already an issue… or a combination of those obvious factors. The Kings are not a team that should be getting any smaller, especially if we manage to jettison #41 and bump up the overall skill level a bit. It hurts to say this, but look a little south at the Ducks. Look the other way to San Jose. We don’t play in a soft conference, let alone a soft division. When you jump up a level, all of a sudden you can’t just skate circles around big guys and neutralize the size advantage any more. Hell, it happened to me years back, lol.

    src3 -

    Lemaire announced today that he’s leaving Minnesota. Probably heading to Montreal, but time will tell. Not sure if that’ll affect Gaborik.

    Btw, wrt Hossa, his agent made a statement that sounded like Hossa would be happy to follow Franzen and commit to a long term deal with the Wings. Said that cap money would not be an issue when it came to signing. It was an Edmonton Journal article that was linked to from Kukla’s…

  • josh e.

    lets get lemaire to coach us…he just stepped down in minnesota (a similar system)…and he’s a much better coach than TM

  • Quisp

    src3, I saw that comment from Hossa’s agent. It simply doesn’t make any sense. Not only does it contradict everything Ken Holland has said (to paraphrase: he said he has to choose between Hossa and depth on the team in general), but the numbers don’t add up at all. The agent’s comment was left-field enough to cause me to re-add all the numbers.

    A Hossa cap hit of $6MM would leave the Wings with a cap number of $59.3 with four players left to sign. That means, assuming entry level salaries, that they would have a cap hit of around $62MM. Assume the cap will go up nominally, a couple million. The Wings will be $4MM over the cap, and that’s even after they will have let Samuelsson walk (he’s UFA). They will have to trade Hudler, who is RFA. Who can they deal to make room for Hossa?

    Basically, one of Stuart or Kronwall (not both, ’cause that would be insane). I would guess it’s going to be Stuart. I predicted that a few weeks ago. That would reduce their cap hit by $3.75. Now they’re at $58.25, which is likely to be more or less exactly where the cap is.

    Could be done. But it’s risky (see Calgary). And you kinda have to make the trade before 7/1, because otherwise you’re Brian Burke, and everyone has you over a barrel. He’ll get much much less for Stuart after 7/1 if everyone knows he has to move him. And anyone who is interested in Hossa is not going to make Holland’s life easier by making a trade with Detroit before 7/1, right? They’re going to hold his feet to the fire.

    No matter how you slice it, the agent’s comment that there will be “no cap impediment” is nuts. Holland will have to deal away assets to make it work, as he has said all along. Now that Franzen is signed, the picture is clearer.

    You lose Samuelsson. You lose Hudler (or else you sign him and deal Cleary; either way, that’s bad). You lose one of Stuart or Kronwall. That’s three important pieces, in “trade” for Hossa.

    I still think Hossa will walk.

  • variable

    i don’t see how detroit can keep hossa without making significant sacrifices…

    i agree…hossa will walk…maybe fly…to LAX…?

  • jet

    The most interesting part of this discussion will be the league’s decision to change the cap. If they do not cut the cap number, then they could make a statement that the cap in 2010 may decrease. Any action or statement of a decreasing cap will impact all contracts this summer.
    There are already a couple of US teams with financial challenges. Will the league be willing to possibly sacrifice a couple of franchises to allow a few teams to keep their teams together?

    Someone mentioned moving up a slot or two in the draft. I am not sure that is possible. I think there is a 5 out of 6 chance we stay at #5, and about a 1/12 chance each of moving to the #1 pick or the #6 pick. Any of those 3 slots will deliver a great player.

  • Quisp

    jet re odds:

    8.1% Kings pick #1
    17.2% Kings pick #6 (this is the sum of the odds that the four teams beneath the Kings win the lottery and bump the Kings to 6)
    74.5% Kings pick #5

  • jet

    8.1 is good.

  • Moondoggie

    Hey Quisp –

    The way I understand the lottery, one team wins; if it isn’t the team with the worst record, they pick 2nd. The rest then fall in line, 3rd, 4th, 5th, right? I think what you’re saying is if PHX or another lottery team with a better record wins the lottery, it would bump the Kings back one spot to 6th, correct?

  • Moondoggie

    Quisp –

    PS – I like Evander Kane too but Matt Duchene looks like a monster! If he’s available when the Kings pick with his size and speed…..*sigh* You’ve got me drooling too!

  • Quisp

    Moondoggie –

    One team wins, yes. And whoever it is, moves up four spots. Only the 14 non-playoff teams participate.

    Let’s call the Isles #1, the Kings #5 etc., all the way down to #14.

    Now let’s say, #14 is the winner. They move up four spots to #10. The old #10 is now #11, #11 is now #12, etc.; #1 thru 9 stay the same. (This is why #1 doesn’t have to win the lottery to keep the first pick; they stay #1 as long as 2-5 don’t win; the first pick is out of reach for 6-14.)

    For the Kings, if 6, 7, 8 or 9 win, they (the Kings) are bumped to #6. If 1-4 or 10-14 win, the Kings stay at #5. If the Kings win, they move to #1.

    Just remember, there’s one winner, and that winner moves up four spots. Everyone moves down accordingly.

  • Quisp

    Yeah, Kane or Duchene. Those are my favorites. Whichever one is available. I hope DL keeps the pick. I will be happier adding one of those two guys than subtracting the pick plus whatever huge package (Frolov, Johnson, Hickey) for Kovalchuk.

    But that’s just because I also want HOSSA.

  • number 6

    Quisp, I’m sorry to say that even if Detroit can’t sign Hossa or even if he decides to walk (which I find unlikely if they can work the admittedly very complicated finances) I just don’t see him coming to the Kings. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. To be honest, the more I’ve read peoples’ comments here and DL’s comments, I don’t see any UFA who fits the bill and would be likely to come. Could he put a package together to get Kovulchuk, sure. But I don’t feel that great about that either. (think Kovi comes, and Fro goes).

    One thing that people seem to forget here is that it seems DL’s vision is broader and longer term than the rest of us. We’re all looking at next season and making the playoffs. I get the distinct feeling that he’s leaning more towards finding the right player at a time when he thinks it will lift the Kings into a position of being a serious contender.
    Some games I watch them and think “geez these guys can play with anyone”, but some games (see 4-0 vs Det – game played in LA) when it looked like a top AHL team would outclass the Kings. The upshot is that the team clearly isn’t ready to challenge for the Cup or even a long playoff run. Depending on how next year goes maybe that’ll change and they’ll get close. But if you ask me today, no. So why bring in Hossa? If the guy wanted to be a King so much you couldn’t hold him back, well that’s another story, but I seriously doubt that’s the case.

  • nykingfan

    Bako

    Very interesting points and stats you bring up.

    I wouldn’t have any problem going to war again with the guys we have.
    This was the youngest team in the league and the only reason we didn’t make the playoffs was due to the fgact that we didn’t win the 1 goal games.
    I think with the improvement that must be expected from guys like Kopitar/Brown/Williams/Quick…this team should make the jump to the next level.
    Learning how to win the close games is something that every young team goes through. They’ve gotten the experience of playing those games…now go out and win those games…same with playing on the road…Most of the players on this team had no idea what it takes to win playoff-type games on the road…especially back to back games and 3 in 4 nights. It’s one thing to play those games when they have no meaning…it’s quite another to play and win those games when their playoffs lives are at stake.

    Everything this team went thru this year was a lesson to be learned. I haven’t lost confidence in any of our young guys, but I do expect to see significant improvement from our core players…because if not, i don’t care who DL brings in….we’re not winning anything.

  • Ersberg

    MSP

    We’re going to need a young talented LW soon.

  • number 6

    nykingfan….. totally agree with everything you said… and you echoed a lot of bako’s philosophy as regards the evolution of the team.
    My only slight concern with all of it is that unlike say St. L or the rebuilt Philly team, the Kings not only have to deal with everything you stated, but also with an undeniable very prevalent culture of losing that seems to be attached to this franchise and I believe it’s gonna take a determined and focused effort to turn it, but it can definitely be done.

  • nykingfan

    Number 6
    You’re right…that culture of losing is a tough thing to get rid of. The only saving grace is that most of the kids haven’t lived thru those lean years…and we have a coach and GM that come from winning situations and can instill that winning attitude in the dressing room. that’s why DL is smart in the type of player he’s looking for…guys who know how to win.
    We also have guys in the room that have won before…OD/Williams/Quincy(?) not sure if I’m missing anyone….Being veterans from winning programs gives you credibility in the locker room. You would hope the young guys can learn from them…
    I left out the one player who has played the most in this losing culture…that’s Frolov.
    Does he stay and play like a winner, or does he go for talent?
    Good luck DL with that decision. That’s probably the biggest decision he’ll have to make as GM of the Kings. If he’s wrong either way, we’re screwed.

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    nykingsfan & Number 6:

    I agree that the culture of losing is difficult to get rid of. Apologize for this, but I also follow baseball and sometimes the analogies just seem to flow from there. The Angels–for decades–simply did not stick to a plan and harvest their own assets. I remember decades of frustration as a fan, sparked by that occasional year when they would pretend to contend with teams that could pitch, could field, but just could not score. Frank Tanana and Nolan Ryan were there, but they would lose game after game at 0-1, 1-2, 2-3 scores.

    The question was–and the question with the Kings is–are they close to becoming a winner?

    More in a moment…

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    Bottom line with the Angels in the ’70s was that they NEVER got closer than the multiple one-run loss years, where they finished close to .500. It was a matter of talent, nothing less, nothing more.

    With the Kings, it is a matter of talent, nothing less and nothing more. Perhaps Kopitar could be a monster if he really applied himself during the summer and got into superstar athlete shape. But the problem is a matter of talent. If the Kings had enough emerging forwards that Kopitar, when he looked at the roster, saw that he could lose playing time to a hot young stud hungry to play, perhaps that fear would motivate Kopitar to prepare properly before the season. It is the quality of the players in the lower DM boxes that motivates the top 6 forwards and top 4 defenseman to get better through preparation. The Kings’ reserve list just is not that strong… YET.

    Watch what will happen in training camp with the defenseman this year–there are SO MANY good defensemen in the system now that competition will be UNREAL. I’ve seen Colton Teubert play; he is the real deal. Will he stick with the Kings? Highly unlikely, this year. Is he motivated to prepare? You betcha!

    When we have the talent coming through the system to press the forwards to improve, we will have reached the correct point in the system development to buy in from the outside, get a Hossa while losing good players in development. The boxes will stay filled, the motivation will be there for all involved.

    With the Angels, they started buying players, building from the top. Occasionally they had a good year; the next would invariably flop. But look at them now! They have so many players they don’t know what to do with all of them. The pressure to perform is on all of them, constantly. Injury? Just trade one out.

    The Kings are close to achieving that kind of system depth. To give it up now in pursuit of some mythical championship is crazy, IMHO. The one goal losses will change to one goal wins only when the entire team is pressing to win, every game, every shift, every line.

    And, in my humble opinion, that is the beauty of hockey.

  • number 6

    Bako and nykfan…. you guys speak a lot of sense. Nothing to add (I’m smiling saying that). That’s such a nice feeling. I think that in these last comments you’ve made there is a lot of reality. I sort of prefer that to “fire this guy, trade that guy, change this guy to the 2nd line”. I mean all that stuff is valid too, but it isn’t IMHO gonna change anything wrt the Kings, because what you guys are dealing with here is the bigger picture.

    Also, hope you don’t mind me diverting, but Bako, I’m also a big Angels fan and everything you said resonated. I want to share this one bit as well. When I heard Teixera’s comments wrt the Angels when he was w the team I felt certain (just a feeling) he wouldn’t resign. Well, it was a bit of disappointment for me. But then seeing how they went out and got Bobby Abreu from ny (I never cared for the Yankees but always thought Abreu he had a nice quality about him), I felt it was a great move, because he fits w the teams shape and spirit. Again, it’s not just about the sexy name (to quote DL).

    Oh, nykfan, the Only reservation at all that I have here is that it “seems” that they’ve lost a lot of 1 goal games for something like the last three years, but certainly it was even more in evidence this year and something that they really do have to find a way to change…. and w the continuation of the shootout (which I don’t like, win or lose) we admittedly have a bit less skill up front to win that sort of skills competition…. which doesn’t help your record in one goal games.

    So, thanks you guys for sharing your insights!

  • Moondoggie

    Quisp, thx for the explanation!

    Nykingsfan, good to see ya again! Agreed, same with Bako, I think you said it best. DL has developed “system depth” something the Kings have just not ever had. They’re close, very close now….

    Good article on the Kings future over at ESPN….

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4059710&name=lebrun_pierre

    Finally, Nykingsfan….Like you I’d go to war with this bunch again too. I really like this team and the youth movement is just now coming together. I don’t want to see DL package our 1st, 5th, 6th or whatever for an overpriced star that will cost us some of our young talent. I really like this draft coming up because its deep (again) and will address our next biggest need, a scoring left wing.

    As far as next season goes, remember who started as the No. 1 goalie last season, Lababs. That it itself should be worth about 10 wins, don’t u think?

    Go Kings!

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