Honor for Bernier

With Mans defense, that record would be equivalent to 35-7-4 with a GA of 1.92 on any other team. We should keep this kid. If we don't, he'll end up on the Sharks and become the next Brodeur.

Dean knows what he's doing. He'll trade him for peanuts. But before he does that, he'll make Bernier look like the bad guy, which he already has a head start on, so we can all hate Bernier and not mind seeing him great traded. Then when he's off on another team winning cups, we totally forget that he once use to be ours. But since Dean is a cheapo, Bernier, and the rest of our future and the Cup will be going elsewhere! For as long as Dean is in office this team will never win a Cup. San Jose figured it out, soon AEG will too (I hope)!

The only reason AEG will not fire Dean is because Dean is playing it smart, Dean is cutting costs on players and increasing costs on ticket sales. Therefore AEG sees profit and keeps him around. Dean sells this idea of bright future and great players coming through the system and we all get excited. He keeps the fans interested while he cuts more costs and makes AEG happpier with profit. AEG doesn't care about a Cup, bottom line is money. So for as long as fans keep going to games, you will continue to support Dean and a bad product, and thats all it will ever be.

WWAMD--

I'll be mild/that was a little harsh. You've got an automatic invite to my next Kool-Aid party! Something I've noticed about the NHL lately is that competition tends to yield better performances from players. Take, for example, Khabibulin in Chicago. Looks like he's going to be traded, doesn't have a job, he comes on and suddenly he's the man, going to start in the playoffs.

Bet you anything that Bernier will NOT be traded before at least one full year with the big club. The guy traded will be Ersberg. Backup goalies are valuable on the trade market at certain times (look at Huet!). People think they can turn No.2 into No. 1 and take a chance...

At some point, it will be clear that the battle for No. 1 with the Kings is between Quick and Bernier--and, the Kings will be better off for that competition!

Bernier's March record was 6-5-1 and he's goalie of the month? WOW! What would happen if another goalie went 10-2-0 in a month?

Brodeur didn't exactly tear it up in the minors or in his first stint with the Devils either.

1989–90 Saint-Hyacinthe Laser QMJHL 42 23 13 2 — 2333 156 0 4.01 —
1990–91 Saint-Hyacinthe Laser QMJHL 52 22 24 4 — 2946 162 2 3.30 —
1991–92 Saint-Hyacinthe Laser QMJHL 48 27 16 4 — 2846 161 2 3.39 —
1991–92 New Jersey Devils NHL 4 2 1 0 — 179 10 0 3.35 .882
1992–93 Utica Devils AHL 32 14 13 5 — 1952 131 0 4.03 .884

Let's see, seems the Devils brought him up straight from juniors, he played 4 games and had similar success to Bernier. Then he played in the AHL and didn't exactly tear it up there either. Granted this was still when scoring was way up, but I am sure fans of the Devils were having the same reservations.

These days, they like to keep these kids in the minors at least 2 years. I think that's why you keep Ersberg around a little longer. Pretty soon, Bernier and Quick will be competing for the starting job and the loser will hopefully get traded away for some scoring.

WWAMD, are you out of your mind? Honestly? Or is this some bizarre April Fool's Day joke?

Let's get a few things straight. Ultimately, the way Dean has put this team together, it is inevitable that we can't keep all our young talent. As a team that has been sellers for years, we have accumulated a number of potentially NHL players but the consequence to that is having to get rid of them. That said, if Bernier is ever traded it will only be because Quick will have established himself as a true number one. Bernier is not going anywhere until that is established and if it happens Bernier will be packaged in a deal that gets us a high return...not peanuts. Let's keep in mind it was Dean who drafted these players and it says a lot about him that we have such depth.

Also, like everybody else Dan has to do his job in order to keep his job. Every team in every sport has a bottom line to meet but I assure every team in every sport wants to win. You are in the minority when you say we have a bad product. We have so much young talent, great cap space, a promising defense, strong goaltending, a handful of scoring punch (although obviously room for improvement here), a great fan base and will still sign some players this off-season that will take us to the next level.

I will give you every benefit of doubt up until the start of next season. If Dean does what I think we all think he will do and what even he says he will do, I think you are in for quite a surprise.

Bernier will be our starter midway through next season, guaranteed

Any GM would be absolutely crazy to trade away JB at this point, DL included.

not a bad habit, to get hot this time of year

BakoCAcameraGuy I know you live around bakersfeild can you tell me what station to listen to for the kings game I will be at buena vista lake all weekend and would love to listen to the game on sat night.

This is a good confidence booster which it sounds like he needs. He didn't take being sent down well but it looks like he's playing his way out of it.

I hope he keeps playing well and turns it on for a tough choice in training camp as to which 2 stay up next year.

Having too many good goalies isn't something the Kings fans are used to.

All this negativity, can't we just be happy for the guy and leave it at that?

It should be an interesting battle next training camp.

Dionnefan - Your name reminds me of a picture in my first annual hockey guidebook of two Kings fans holding a sign reading: "For Terry Harper and Dan Maloney, the LA Kings Get Baloney."

So yeah, always negativity in the sports world.

Good job by JB though.

WWAMD, you do realize that Lombardi's payroll( how much HE'S allowed to spend)is set by AEG, not the other way around? Sounds like you've made up your mind about him and this org. If you don't like the team, find a new one, instead of rehashing the same argument here and on every other Kings related message board.

--28 Kings

Yes I do realize that AEG sets a cap.

Its what Dean is doing with the cap is questionable. He spends the bigger bucks on has beens and former flyers and sharks. Why is Priessing and Gauither our two top paid defensemen? Why is Handzus and Calder and Williams top paid forwards on this team (and how much have they produced goal wise to this team)? You know what I mean? Pay your own guys to develop in your own team.
Then we hear the excuse we can't get FA. Please Dean overpaid for Zues. Also guys like Hossa and Gabby are going to be available. If Dean does not pick that up, there is no hope for this team. Dean just keeps trade goals for picks!

Like Bernier will be a great goalie one day, but Dean wants to reassemble the old Flyers and Sharks together at the price of our promised prospects. Sometimes 28 Kings you have to think critically. All our lives we've spent at a desk and took in what teachers have taught us and never questioned it. I would like it if we didn't buy in Deans words and actually look at the facts and see, no progress, and no "plan", our plan seems like, lets trade our young promising prospects for the good ol' boys.

Look for Dean to trade Bernier for Biron straight up! Some will buy in and be happy. Others like myself will fall into a depressed mood. I understand you have your views of Dean, but I have mine...lets agree to disagree. And if for one day you agree with me and expand on my opinions, that would be awesome. And Vice-versa, maybe Dean might do some things in the next few months that will amaze me. But one thing is for sure...you, me..and others on this and other Kings boards LOVE the Kings...that is a commonality we all shall...so lets embrace that and enjoy the community we have for guys and girls like us.

P.S I'm a Bernier Homer all the way! I heart Bernier...I believe he'll be the next Brouder! or close to him! He will be our key to a cup...thats what I believe!

I agree with the above comment by WW in many ways.
Thanks Rich for allowing us to post our opinions about the team - good or bad.
Posting is a priviledge, not a right - I don't want to lose mine.

Thanks again.

cheers.

Thanks Cris, really appreciate that!

And just so people are clear

Tom Preissing and Gautier are former Sharks and Flyers. They are our HIGHEST paid defensemen.

Zues, Calder and Williams are our HIGHEST paid Forwards, they are also former Flyers.

This is why I criticize Dean, not just for the fun of it.
But guys like Fro and Jack who are our highest scoring forward and defensemen are getting the shaft money wise and icetime. Same goes with Sully and Cammy, they came through the system and put up points and get the shaft for picks and flyers. So please tell me how Dean has managed money wisely? Yes he may have a cap from AEG, but do you want to keep seeing the San Jose Flyers on the ice? OR "YOUR" LOS ANGELES KINGS?

I'm a Kings fan folks! Not a Sharks or Flyers fan!

P.S Bernier is the man! Congrats on the latest success my friend, hang in there and hopefully you get to play with the big boys soon in a Kings jersey!!! GO KINGS!

WW - the Sharks and Flyers are not bad franchises to model, just a thought.
And, we picked up Quincey also. The wings aren't a half bad organization either.

jet

I agree Flyers and San Jose are good teams.

However, Dean picks up the rejects from those teams. Tell me how much Gauthier, Pressing, Calder and Williams (Count the 35 games in Car) have been this year. All these guys are our top paid guys and Calder and Press are on the PP now more then over. So really, yes San Jose is good, as is Philly, but it seems like we push out our guys and make way for these guys, give them big contracts and they produce little. Sucks!

Jet,

I know what you're saying. The Flyers and Sharks are NOT bad franchises to model.
But that doesn't mean picking up their flotsam is a good idea, either.
I think it bears keeping in mind how the Flyers hit a wall around the time the Cap was instituted, or just before it.
And why???
Because they had a tired old war horse on defense. Ragnarsson, Hatcher, Therien...etc.
I don't think anyone would want the Kings to "model" that behavior.
Also, they were a team who found gold in Keith Primeau, but unfortunately, his career was cut short by injury.
Now, they're still a tough team, but the cast off Downie, and they've turned to the Brieres of the world to try and make their run.
And, don't forget they though it was a good idea to trade Peter Forsberg, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Ron Hextall, and Steve Duschene to Quebec for Eric Lindros.
Sure, they made it to the finals, but they got swept by the Wings and fell to pieces afterwards.

I'd love to be a bit like the Wings and 'lanche, but under Lombardi I don't see anything approaching that.
All I hear is lies and half-truths wrapped in criticism of the Los Angeles Kings top performers.
As Rich pointed out, Patrich O'Sullivan was one of our only "plus" players when he was traded.
And yet these guys have the temerity to say HE'S not good enough, or FROLOV is not good enough.

As I said about that article on Lombardi talking about Frolov, "it's because of Lombardi that Frolov hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 seasons as a King.
All we needed 3 years ago was a new coach and a new outlook, instead AEG fired Taylor (who, granted, was not perfect) and brought in someone who has proven nothing but criticized our team, our franchise, our history, and basically shown little respect for the LA Kings.

This league is built for parity.
If there is money to spend, you're supposed to be able to compete.
Coming in below the 42nd percentile 3 years in a row is horrible.
Dave Taylor drafted in the top 10 once in his tenure.
Lombardi is about to draft in the top 7 for the 3rd time in a row.
That is futility.

And finally, why would any free-agents want to come here?
To be criticized for not buying in to an outdated system?
Or for it to be implied that they asked for too much money when there are other players making more than they that are underperforming?
I think Lombardi may have a tough time bringing in anything of quality this summer, just as he's already had a tough time.
He constantly has to overspend for questionable talent or players with injury.
I don't think he's doing himself any favors treating players like Lubo, Cammy, P. O'sullivan, Blake, Tukonen, or Labarbara the way he does.
It's down right embarrassing, in my opinion.
If I were a player in the NHL I'd steer well clear of LA for now...

WW - Cheers. And like you, I agonize over this stuff because I love the LA Kings and I'm lucky enough to have a franchise here with games on all fall, winter, and spring.
I think it's great that we have this opportunity and the priviledge of posting our opinions about it all.

I just noticed that there are only 2 teams in the NHL with less wins than the LA Kings.
I don't see this as improvement.
Or as a rebuild coming together.

Wow WW and Cris. I see what you are saying, but you are completely missing the point. The players Dean has brought in have been in a winning culture. They already and know what it takes to endure the ups and downs of a 100 game season. I do not believe that Philly, SJ or Detroit would give of their core players. The Kings need to work with the best they could get, until the team develops the expectation of winning. Look at how many players that we have who have been to the finals as compared to just last year.

I am not going to defend pickup, but I did want to note that we received a pick (3rd?) from Philly for taking on his contract.

Regarding traded players, as much as you or I like Lubo, Cammy, POS, Blake, tukonen and Labs, they just did not fit into the current team. (On a side note, Lubo is out injuried, Cammy is pointless and a minus 3 in his last 4 games (while team has dropped from 3 to 5th), POS has one point in ten games?, Blake is doing fine (but, I honestly think that OD fit our team's needs better this year, than Blake did last year), Tuks is out of hockey and Labs will be next year.

Finally, when DL came in there was nothing at Manchester and the Kings were on the down side of the cycle. In my opinion, the Kings and Monarchs are bigger, faster and more skilled than they ever have been. There are now enough quality players in the system to keep the ones who really want the cup and move the players who want a career. When DL came in he said it would take 5 years. He also said that he would need to start with the goalie position, and then work on the defensive position, and then work on the attack. I hope that you can admit that our organizational goalie strength has gone from bottom 3 in the league to the top 3 in the league. Defensive was next. Again if you consider defensemen under 25, our organizational strength has gone from the bottom 3 in the league to one of the top 3 in the league. Let's give him the 2 more years he asked for to finish building the offensive.
go Kings

To be honest I didn't read all of this, partially because I feel like I've read it before, but I get the gist and everyone is making good points.

My small contributions:

Kings have improved defensively and in goal from last year and the year before. We have also improved in points. That's definately counterbalanced by still being bottom 10, possibly bottom 5 again and the huge offensive drop.

So where do the scales tip? I'd say ever so slightly towards the positive. Not much, but a little.

I can see how people could see it the other way though, so lets call the stastitical argument a wash shall we?

As for this whole "LA is a joke" theme (coaching/management/atmosphere/conspiracy theories), I will say that at the start of the season the Blackhawks were saying there is no excuse for losing to a team like LA, whereas later on the season teams were starting their backups in Anaheim and giving us the starters. Not in all cases obviously. My point is a general tendency towards thinking or outright calling the Kings a joke in reading quotes from other players and coaches and analysts, whereas this season I have seen that become more rare. The only one I hear badmouthing the Kings anymore really is Larry Murphy, who seems to really really despise the Kings.

Does this mean anything? I think so. Its nothing tangible or statistical and doesn't affect the outcome of games, but I don't think the old argument that the Kings are a joke to the league's players and personnel holds as much water this season as it has the past 3-5 years.

Lombardi and AEG have nothing to do with what people on TV and in newspapers and in locker room interviews are saying about the Kings around the league, so I look at that and feel confident in saying that Lombardi and company have brought the Kings more respect around the league, atleast publicly.

I'm waiting for the wins, which of course, is the most important thing. But offense can be solved with one or two player acquisitions. I'm been down on TM in a lot of ways, his method bugs me, but I also don't hear the players complaining. There is a definate lack of firepower and that's not TM's fault. One or two key moves and I think this team is a very good team next year.

Wow guys. Give Bernier some props here. At the beginning of the season everyone was pissed that he wasn't in the lineup. Now the dude gets some accolades and nobody can even keep on subject.

WWAMD :

Not sure where you are getting your stats but neither Preissing nor Gauthier are our highest paid defenseman. Drew Doughty is, and Jack Johnson makes more money than Gauthier does right now.

And Preissing played for the Sharks when DL wasn't even in their organization anymore, so you can't say that's the reason he picked him up was because he's one of Dean's players. At the time, Preissing came off two seasons with 43 and 38 points, and was a +48 in Ottawa. Not too shabby at the time, especially with what was available out there. The Gauthier pick up I definatlly questioned, but I'm pretty sure he was signed near the end of the summer and there were no other defensemen out there so he needed to fill a roster spot.

Caler is not even close to being one of our top paid players, he's behind Handzus, Stoll, Brown, Frolov, and next year, Kopitar.

Why don't you mention about the great pickups he's made instead of just the ones you don't like? What about Stoll, Greene, Ersberg, Quincy and O'Donnell? Or drafting Hickey, Moller, Simmonds, Bernier, Doughty? I would put quite a bit of money down on the fact that you tore him apart when he drafted Hickey and said he has no clue and should have drafted Alzner or Ellerby instead...

Hi Tantrum4

Um...I don't know where your getting ur info from but Priessing and Gauthier are our TOP 2 paid defensemen
Goat 2.2 Million
Priessing 2.75 million

Jack makes .85 Million, Doughty makes .875 Million which means Goat earns more then DOUBLE their salary. Which means if you add Doughty and Jack's salary it still wouldn't add up to Goat's.

I wish I could talk about Deans "great" pick ups...but there hasn't been any...sorry! There has been some "OK" pick ups. O'D, Quincey, Greene & Stoll...thats it

Quincey an OKAY pick up. I love it, that's why the general consensus around the league is that the Kings made the pick up of the century. When the Kings picked Quincey up off waivers, I think only about 29 other teams wanted him.

Dionnefan

No doubt Quincey is a great player...but I meant O.K in Dean's decision of getting him. There was no thinking involved. He's a good defensemen and the Wings are paying half his salary. A blind chimp would of made that move. Since LA is a horrible team that Dean has not turned around what-so-ever, he had the opportunity as a bottom dwelling team to pick up Quincey first. Do you want to be a fan of a bottom dwelling team so we can pick up good players and lose them on their contract year? If so, hope on the Dean bandwagon, he's waiting for you!

WW -

I really like the way you put everything in perspective.
I think everyone is doing a great job being respectful, too.
It really boils down to seeing this thing from opposite sides.
I am firmly in the camp with WW.
Great work at breaking down your opinions.

Cheers.

PS - I DO think Lombardi has done some impressive work in the draft.
I don't know if Hickey is all that, but I like Simmonds, Moller, Drewiske, Lewis, Purcell, and hmmm, Bernier too (if he maintains his work-ethic).
Doughty and Quincey I feel just fell into his lap, much the same with O'Donnel.
I also really like J. Johnson, and would make that trade again right now, even though I liked Belanger and Gleason a bunch.

- Just thought I'd be fair and give Lomba his due for some positives.