Postgame notes (4/9)

YAY! http://kwisp.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/crucial-remaining-games-for-the-kings/

DL's going 2 make a big trade this offseason....it's going to crazy

This Justin Williams character is one of the worst players I've ever seen.
He can't even play a descent forward position let alone a point man on the power play.
In the last minute during a 6-4 powerplay, he gave the puck away twice.
And while he was playing forward, he dragged his linemates, Kopitar and Frolov, with him. Everytime Kopi anf Fro started a cycle and got things going in the offensive zone, the cycle always died as soon as Williams touched the puck. One he touched the puck, he turned it over. He cost his team the game.
And why this coach plays him on the point is beyond me. He passes poorly and he has a weak shot. So what business does he have on the point.

But who cares. He's an ex-flyer, so that validates things for this coach.
Good job DL, you really screwed things up this time.

Now Phoenix has passed us in the standings.
In 3 years under this GM "cough cough" we've ended up once in 4th place and twice in last place.
Doesn't this GM deserve to be fired?
Shouldn't this GM be fired?

Just going back to the 2 spin masters from the last post...

Frolov TOI: 22:57 SOG: 3 PIM: 2
Brown TOI: 13:56 SOG 1

If people think we're rough on our team..look what some OiLers fan put up on YouTube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss1JTK7JUts

Dude, Hitler HATES MacTavish! I laughed so hard I peed in every pair of pants I own simultaneously!

Classic!

For a good laugh visit:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/los/stats;_ylt=AjYH3UeWcKuLMmDQdkjgziJG2bYF

The Kings stats show 3 Kings in Plus plus/minus territory.
PATRICK O'SULLIVAN
SEAN O'DONNEL
KEVIN WESTGARTH

And, Jarret stoll has more points and a better plus/minus than Micheal Handzus in 5 fewer games and yet Kings fans cannot stop praising Handzus as the MVP.
He's a great player and I love him, but...really?
The Kings have one MVP and it's Anze Kopitar.
Drafted 11th overall by Dave Taylor.

Just a reminder--Dave Taylor drafted in the top 10 overall once--Ollie Jokinen.

Hey Cris

Dave Taylor also drafted Brown and Frolov.

So basically the teams offense is due to Taylor...so Dean has done NOTHING!

Cammy was also drafted by Taylor and look at him now...that was our ticket to the playoffs!

DL hasn't done jack.
But he takes credit for Kopitar, Quick, Brown, and Frolov's, success.

This team will never go anywhere as long as he is GM.
Even if they sign Gaborik, Hossa, Franzen, or Ovechkin, it won't matter. Look at the tool who'll be coaching them.

Fire DL. Three years of failure is long enough. Don't wait until his 5 year contract is up. He's a terrible GM. PERIOD.
Don't expect anything positive from this GM.

Cynic,

Thanks.
That was pretty darn funny.
I think the Kings would make better subject material, however.
I'd like to see someone do that with Lomba/Murray and the friggin' lineups we've seen this season.

Funny, too, cuz Edmonton was in the finals a few short years ago, though some of the movement there has been questionable since.
Like, why did they want Garon?
And what about Pitkanen, or Bergeron? Why were they let go? Raffi Torres? Ryan Smythe?

Is it all about money???

Oh man....I couldn't IMAGINE how funny that would be with Kings material in it. I don't have the skill or I'd attempt it. Somebody should try it...

If they do, put it up.

Cynic,
I loved it. I would make one change.
Cross out Craig MacTavish.
And add in Terry Murray.

Ant'ny,

First Murray needs to go.
DL is very impressionable.
If we get a good hockey mind in here he can be manipulated wisely, instead of foolishly.
He's like a dying cat with this Philly fixation--he's trying desperately to get home...

WW--I know. That's what makes me sick. He also drafted Corvo who seems to have some value, and Grebeshkov who looks real good for Edmonton, at least in the stats (i haven't seen him play for them yet and barely got a look at him here.)

And don't forget Boyle, who may yet get his opportunity to work his way into the NHL with some games--if that's possible under this regime.

Don't forget Jeff Tambellini or Lauri Tukonen. It's time you guys stop insulting Dean Lombardi because he actually rebuilt this team from scratch. The only way I join this Anti-Dean Lombardi crew is if he doesn't re-sign Jack Johnson and trades him away. Other then that, I'm always going to be behind DL 100%. In Dean We Trust!

That's 12 shutouts

1) Oct 12, 0-1 vs Sharks
2) Oct 30, 0-4 vs Canucks
3) Nov 4, 0-1 vs Ducks
4) Nov 16, 0-2 vs Ducks
5) Dec 19, 0-5 vs Sabres
6) Dec 29, 0-2 vs Blue Jackets
7) Jan 15, 0-4 vs Red Wings
8) Feb 12, 0-2 vs Flames
9) Feb 25, 0-2 vs Flyers
10) Mar 24, 0-2 vs Blues
11) Mar 26, 1-0 vs Stars Shootout victory, Turco credited with a shut-out http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8460612&view=log&season=20082009 , no Kings were credited with a goal, consequently this is a shut-out. It's a statistical quirk, kinda like a batter striking out but still reaching first base when the catcher drops the ball. Still a strike-out, still a shut-out.
12) Apr 9, 0-1 vs Canucks

Tambellini is making a place for himself in NYI.
15 points in 63 games isn't much behind Calder or Simmonds in fewer games.
I like the kid.
Tukonen got the shaft from DL and Crow.
Who knows what may have been had Taylor been allowed to hire himself a second coach.

All DL has built is a 3 time bottom feeder, so far.

I think the depth of talent within the organization has been built up over the past few years, it's taken some time to do so (obviously) and also a little while to get a good coaching system in place. Now it's time to get a few players of high end skill and allow those already here a little more time to develop. It'll come together and we'll have a consistently strong team and anthony/christobal will be seen here way less often, only after the occasional loss, spouting the same old "fire everyone" rhetoric.../

Frolov was the best forward out there tonight.

Quick was fantastic tonight.

Simmonds just keeps getting better and better.

That's all I got!

The season hasn't ended the way we all had hoped, but I'm going to give both DL and TM my full support for one more entire year. If next year ends in the same fashion as this year, than firings may be in order.

What some of you have to keep in mind is, in order to improve this team IMO some moves are going to have to be made. And the possibility of fan favorites being moved is a likely scenario. In my view if we keep the same core players and fill the other boxes with rookies we'll be in the same spot(out of playoffs) next year, though a slight improvement because of Quick in goal and a year under TM's system. I want to see the Kings win, so I'll be o.k. with players being moved if it's in the the interest of winning....long term of course.

Let the Hossa sweepstakes begin.......

I still dont see how we will sign Hossa. He has played in 3 open and aggressive systems. Why would he want to come to LA and play in TMs system? Girls, sun and 8 mil?

And there are not any young thachuks out there! After Franzen signs in Det of course.

Lets hope we pull a rabbit out of our *sses and get the nr. 1. Otherwise we are stuck with an injury prone Gaborik.

Pull out your lucky rabbits feet for april 14th

duckhunter-
i agree with you. the problem is that some people on this board want to have their cake and eat it too. they want their favorite players to remain on the team AND to win the cup...not realizing that it's not about having the BEST players, it's about having the RIGHT players...where everybody has a role. a GM can only hang on to the same group of players for so long before it's obvious something needs to change. so DL trades a few players who are fan-favorites (visnovsky, cammy, sully) and the DL haters complain. yet when we had all 3 of those guys...same results...no playoffs. so which is it? keep our crappy team from 3 years ago or try to build from the ground up? i'd prefer to build a winner.

sorry for the rant...it's late.

To any fans outside of LA reading these comments, I'm sorry this is the perspective you're getting. I promise we're not all like this. Here's some stats since the trade deadline.

Player A: 17GP, 1G, 4A, 5P, -8 +/-, 12 PIM
Player B: 11GP, 1G, 2A, 3P, 0 +/-, 6 PIM

if you believe certain people, Player A is God, and Player B should be the guy cleaning hats off the ice every time God gets a hat trick (which so far, has never happened).
if you believe the truth, Player A is Patrick O'Sullivan, and Player B is Justin Williams. neither has been very good since the trade. O'Sullivan has a miniscule edge on points per game, but he's much worse on +/-.

if you believe certain people, Patrick O'Sullivan will score 50 goals next season, while Justin Williams is already washed up.
if you believe the truth, O'Sullivan is indeed improving, but Williams is still young and will be in his second year following knee surgery, which usually signifies substantial improvement.

Cristobal: 15 points in 62 games (Tambellini) isn't far behind 27 points in 74 games (Calder)? whaaaa? i'd also like to add that Teddy Purcell has the same number of points as Tambellini in 23 fewer games... and Tambellini's a year older. yeah, i miss him too.

Finally: there's a reason Hockey's Future has us as the #2 ranked organization in terms of prospect depth... and it ain't Dave Taylor. There's a reason every other team's announcers praise us and talk about our bright future... and it ain't Dave Taylor. Our primary players will take a step forward after a year in this system and a year of growth. We will not finish 13th next year. Not even close.

So, if you're ready to give up go root for the Ducks. I'll love it when we pass you in the standings next year. And if we don't get in, I'll criticize Lombardi as much as the next guy. But he's done what we needed him to do, and if his players play to their potential next year, we're good to go.

I need to go to bed. Don't like being all riled up at 3 in the morning. Thanks for all the coverage, Rich.

I believe I have a right to have an opinion.
I also believe that people can be banned for entering into pissing contests.
I'll pray that the team does better next year with all the YOUNG TALENT that Dave Taylor ammassed.

They are the ones producing for this team.
If you don't realize that, what point is there in arguing about it?

Now some of them are producing elsewhere...

Calder 2.75 million and how old?
Tambellini, does he make a million? How old? What line is he playing on, unlike Calder and Purcell? On a team somehow worse than the Kings...

Isn't Tambellini on the 2nd line for the Islanders? Your arguments make absolutely no sense.. Dave Taylor was a good GM but do you call this a good trade..?

Grebeshkov, Tambellini for Mark Parrish and Brent Sopel?

Ya exactly.. now let's compare that to this..

Jack Johnson & Oleg Tverdosky for Eric Belanger & Tim Gleason..

Hmm.. Ok.

Now let's see who Dave Taylor selected in the first round since he was the LA Kings GM..

1997-2006

97: Olli Jokinen (3rd rounder) Where's he now? Not an LA King & Matt Zultek.. He's producing all right!
98: Mathieu Biron (enough said)
99: DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A FIRST ROUNDER!
2000: Frolov, a guy who can score 30 goals in a brand new system..
2001: Jens Karlsson and David Steckel (lmao)
2002: Denis Grebeshkov (read above what happened to him)
2003: THE BIG YEAR! 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS AND WE TAKE... Future captain Dustin Brown, Brian Boyle (??!?!?!?!), JEFF TAMBELLINI!!!! (read above what happened to him)
2004: Lauri Tukonen! What Happened to him!?
2005: Kopi.. ok, nice call, superstar of the LA Kings..

I'm not sure if he was fired before the 2006 draft, where the Kings selected Bernier & Lewis..

Either way, let's count how many of those players are still in the Kings organization.. Frolov, Brown, Boyle and Kopitar.. Out of 12 first round picks, we've only managed to keep 4, so what does that tell you about Dave Taylor? I only put down the first rounders because it would take way too much time to look through every single round, but a couple good picks on Taylor's part were Visnovky and Cammalleri..

Cristobal,

you say that Taylor's guys are the only ones producing, right? How does even make any sense? Of course they are producing more than Dean's guys because they've been in the NHL longer?! How can you tell me Drew Doughty isn't producing? Or Oscar Moller wasn't producing? Or Wayne Simmonds wasn't producing? Those are all DLs guys? What about the year Handzus is having? After all the criticizing you guys were directing towards Handzus, he turns out to be one our biggest penalty killer and leader in the locker room. He helped Simmonds' development profoundly. Honestly, it's time you lay off Dean Lombardi, because he just cleaned up Dave Taylor's mess and will bring us to a playoff spot next season, guaranteed.

Now the way I look at Terry Murray's position, is that if we acquire a huge UFA this seaons (Gaborik, Hossa, Havlat), TM will be on a short leash. If we get off to a bad start, the way the Blackhawks did, TM is long gone. I somewhat compare our organization to the Blachawks one. Hopefully DL has the will power to fire TM next season if the team gets off to a bad start. There's no more excuses after this year..

Lombardi hasn't made this organization attractive enough to attract the Havlats, the Hossas, the Gaboriks, the Franzens.
Three years as Kings Gm, the team finished last twice and 4th place once.
As a player would you want anything to do with this GM?
Good players like O'Sullivan, Camalleri, Visnovsky were sent packing and Frolov will soon join that list.
This organization is going backwards not forward.

Think about it.
Last place teams like St. Louis, Nashville, Chicago, Columbus are all moving forward and getting into the playoffs.
But we just suck. And we continue to suck. Nothing changes. Why can't we move forward like those teams.
We're in last place again.

Man Anthony comes back and the boards are back to venom.

The Kings need something to spark offense. They have 3 30 goal scorers but only one has reached that mark so far. The system is great for defense but there needs to be some balance.

Those of you saying Williams is the man I hope you're right. I just have to temper your enthusiasm with DL's last several trades for injured people coming over.

Nobody is gloating about Cloutier and McCauley now are they?

Way to go Eric K

The naysayers are having a good time telling us how Rome is burning and there's nothing left but rubble.

Steve Tambellini and Laurie Tukonen...successful drafts by DT...Don't forget about Mathiu Garon...1st round pick.
By the way Islander fans would love to see Tambellini sent packing anywhere...
also Grebeshkov was the guy that got pick-pocketed from behind by Zeus on the Simmonds goal basically eliminating the Oilers from the playoffs...He's probably a popular guy up there at the moment too.
I'm starting to get the feeling that these people wish that players like grebeshkov/Tukonen/Garon,etc were still on the Kings so they can hate them like they do the rest of the organization.

I believe this team has improved significantly in 3 of the 4 major categories. Goaltending/Defense/Special teams.
They need a lot of work on their 5 on 5 play....but its a hell of a lot better than last year when we stunk in goal, Defense, and on special teams.

This team is going to have to make some changes and if our favorite players are jettisoned to make room for players that will lead us to the playoffs and ultimately the cup, all I have to say to those guys is
ADIOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems a little odd to me that Frolov doesn't seem to be in the Kings' long-range plans when he's their leading point-producer this year and has been one of the club's leading scorers during the time he's been in L.A., especially given the anemic forward situation here.

And for those of you touting the genius of Dave Taylor, why isn't he a GM somewhere else by now if he's so good? Brett Hull can be a co-GM and Dave Taylor can't?!

Whatever happened to Matt Zoltec and Scott Barney?

Cristobal said:

"I'll pray that the team does better next year with all the YOUNG TALENT that Dave Taylor ammassed."

Shouldn't you also be rooting just as much for the guys who Dean Lombardi is amassing, or are you only interested in proving your point that Dave Taylor is a genius, as he's well proven by his exemplary record as GM and the fact that other clubs are lining up in hopes of hiring them as their next GM? Are you only a Dave Taylor and Cristobal fan or are you a Kings fan as well? Yes, you have a right to your opinion, but so does everybody else on this board, whether we agree with them or not. Dave Taylor is history as far as the Kings are concerned, so stop living in the past and bemoaning the fact that he isn't aroun anymore to steer this club through mediocrity.

"Tukonen got the shaft from DL and Crow.
Who knows what may have been had Taylor been allowed to hire himself a second coach"

well, considering tukonen was traded to the stars, where taylor was and is director of player personnel (meaning part of his job is prospect development, evaluation, etc), and still ended up out of the league, I guess we do know what happened. Who knows, maybe he'll get a shot with Tampa, but he's not doing so hot even playing back home in Finland. Maybe coaches and GM's everywhere are giving him the shaft.

In a nutshell, this team has chemistry and leadership issues. They don't hate losing. And they don't stick up for each other.

Kopi for MVP? You're kidding me - the kid lumbers through so many shifts I feel like I'm watching Palffy all over again.

Send Brown home and let him take care of his kid - he has not been right since his wife gave birth.

What happened to JMFJ? Kid had 5 good games when he returned, and now looks scared to make a mistake.

Boyle-Purcell looked good on the forecheck, but TM will not allow them to play with a legit offensive player on their line. Surprised he did not put Zeiler with them.

Team still has too many "Willsies" - it looked like we had cleaned house a bit, but look around and there are still a number of zero-dimensional players - Richardson, Harrold, Calder, etc.

I don't care how much "compete" our scrubs have - I would prefer to have a team with "skill", "speed", and "grit". And note to TM - we use adjectives to describe and verbs to show action.

There's absolutely no way we ever see Calder, Armstrong, Preissing or Gauthier in a King jersey and if we do, then I'm joining the anti-DL club, real talk. Those 4 guys can easily be replaced by all-around better NHL players.

BTW, to all of you who are asking yourselves "why isn't Frolov apart of the long term plan?".. Well, as far as I'm concerned, only us fans are the ones predicting Alexander Frolov not being apart of our future. Who knows what's going on in DL's office, for all we know, he's probably talking to Frolov's agent so that once the season is officially done, we re-sign him to a long term contract..

We need to keep Frolov & Jack Johnson, or else we're just taking a step back from this rebuild.. HUGE!

Enough DL Bashing...

The season is gone. We have all been chirping about what is to come this offseason...so its now about seeing how DL handles his next move. I think anyone who says he is the worst GM in the league is being awfully ignorant. We have the strongest group of prospects in the whole league. Not all of them will play for the Kings, most of them are poker chips. All the draft picks, and all the cap space...its been preparation. Positioning the chess pieces on the board. I'll be casting the first stone if he doesn't use this moment to leverage the future of the team.

You can't just buy talent whenever you want. You need the right scenario in place to afford a long term plan of retaining the talent. Obviously, this summer is about upgrading the forwards and locking them in LONG TERM. Do you guys really want to be like the Thrashers? They've lost Heatley, Hossa, Kozlov,and soon Kovalchuk because they had no plan of succession. Basically, the team never improved. They just exhausted their asset until they were motivated to leave town.

The time to criticize his performance will be after training camp when we can look back at the moves he's made or didn't make. Right now, we are sitting on a mountain of opportunity that DL created, and its his time to prove the nay sayer's wrong. But I won't be ignorant, I'm not supporting him anymore if he does in fact hide in a turtle shell and not pony up and make the deal we've all been waiting for. I think we all agree that the time to start running is now. No more baby steps. In my eyes, he's played it perfectly up until now (with the exception of Cloutier, ouch!). If he pulls off what he's planning for, we are going to be the talk of the league. I see a 40+ goal scorer in our future.

1997:

DT: Jokinen
DL: Marleau
DET: nobody (first pick #49 overall)

call this one a draw between DL and DT; presumably DT would have taken Marleau with the #2 pick if he had it.

1998:

DT: nobody
DL: Cheechoo, Stuart, Samuelsson
DET: Jiri Fischer, DATSYUK (w/ pick #171; Kings picks right before Datsyuk: Rullier, Brennan, Zizka)

DT loses. DET wins. DL does well.

1999:

DT: Fr Kaberle, Parros
DL: nobody really
DET: Zetterberg (w/ pick #210)

DET wins. DT does well-ish. DL fires blanks.

2000:

DT: Frolov, Lilja, Lubo (easily DT's best draft ever)
DL: nobody (no pick till #41)
DET: Kronwall, Kopecky

DT wins. DET picks up a couple of pieces. DL loses.

2001:

DT: Cammy, Huet
DL: Goc, Erhoff, Clowe
DET: nobody

Both DL and DT draft well here, right?

2002:

DT: Grebeshkov
DL: nobody
DET: Hudler, Filpula, Meech, Ericsson

DET blows everyone away again.

2003:

DT: Brown, Boyle, Tambellini
DL: n/a
DET: Quincey

DL is out of the picture. DT does well. DET finds Quincey. That's not bad.

2004:

DT: Tukonen
DL: n/a
DET: Franzen (pick #97)

DET crushes DT.

2005:

DT: Kopitar, Quick
DL: n/a
DET: nobody (yet?)

Great for DT.

2006:

DT: n/a
DL: Bernier, Lewis, Zatkoff
DET: ??

We'll see...

2007:

DT: n/a
DL: Hickey, Moller, Simmonds, Martinez
DET: ??

Decision DL.

2008:

DT: n/a
DL: Doughty, Teubert, Voynov, Czarnik, Campbell, Wudrick, Loktionov, Azevedo, Roe
DET: ??

Looking at those names -- and by the way, that's all of the names -- I am really impressed by this group. Voynov, Wudrick, Loktionov, Azevedo...those mid to late round picks have a real shot.

DT ends up with 5.5 good drafts out of nine.
DL ends up 3 out of 6 with the Sharks, and either 2 or 3 out of 3 with the Kings (depending on Bernier, Lewis and Zatkoff...).
DET: has good drafts 6 times out of 8 (I'm not counting the last three/four years, since it's hard to know at this point...) with crappy draft position.

I would say that DL and DT are basically even in a general sense, in terms of drafts that can be deemed successful; both are put to shame by Detroit...but that's why Detroit is the gold standard. I would also note that DL's picks for the Kings so far have the potential to be insanely fruitful. We will just have to wait to see what happens.

As far as what went down before DL joined the Kings, I don't think you can argue one way or the other re DT and DL. And I think we can all agree: Kopitar, Brown, Frolov, Cammy, Lubo, good. Tukonen, bad.

Quisp said:

"2001:

DT: Cammy, Huet
DL: Goc, Erhoff, Clowe
DET: nobody

Both DL and DT draft well here, right?"

I would agree to a point. I think Huet is a disappointment with the "Hawks and Cammalleri is now with Calgary while Goc, Erhoff and Clowe are contributing with SJ. Granted, the Kings picks that year both left under DL's regime, but it's impossible to say if they would have remained Kings under DT.

BBTSJ--

Thanks for the shutout breakdown! What's interesting about the shutouts is how many of those games were competitive. One of the games was the shootout victory; three of the games were 0-1 losses (and so came down to the Kings' last shot); five of the games were 0-2, some likely 0-1 until very late (possibly even an empty net goal); only three games were 0-3 or greater and thus blowouts (0-4 twice and 0-5 once).

To summarize: NINE of the shutouts were actually competitive games until the very end! Add to that the large number of one goal losses this year, plus the fact that the Kings' goal differential is under thirty despite the shutouts and in the face of being four games under .500, AND the fact that the Kings are in 27th place in 5-on-5 goal scoring...

...The Kings were a whole lot closer to the 8-10 additional wins required to make the playoffs than meets the eye.

No matter how you slice it, if the Kings scored as many goals as they surrendered (say, 231 GF/231 GA, instead of 203 GF/231 GA), they would've been significantly above .500 and probably would've made the playoffs. Only the Rangers (206 GF) and the Blue Jackets (222 GF) would have scored fewer goals and made the playoffs. The Rangers made the playoffs because of Lundquist (215 GA), while the Blue Jackets made it because of Steve Mason (221 GA). One can argue that the Kings would’ve made it with fewer GA if Quick had been there all year.

The point is that the Kings are closer to the playoffs than it may appear. Perhaps they can get that sniper this year in June...

MAGNUS PAAJARVI-SVENSSON....

he should wear number 91...

...and i'm already tired of anthony's return...

"Think about it.
Last place teams like St. Louis, Nashville, Chicago, Columbus are all moving forward and getting into the playoffs."

anthony, you just proved our point. these teams were all built through the draft. don't make quisp have to list all the draft picks!

Baumgartner,
Partially right.
Those teams did good in the draft but also through trades and free agent signings.

St. Louis:
Paul Kariya
Andy McDonald
Brad Boyes
Chris Mason

Columbus:
Huselius
Tores
Tyutin
Williams (Jason, not that clown on our team)
Backman
Antoinee Vermette
RJ Umberger

Chicago:
Brian Campbell
Huet
Andrew Ladd

Nashville:
Build from within, I'll give you that Sir.

And dont forget the coaches too:
St louis - Andy Murray
Columbus - Ken Hitchcock
Chicago - Joel Quenville
Nashvile Barry Trotz

Terry Murray wouldn't even come up to their jock straps.

Regarding all this DL/DT draft success comparison, a small trivial point of clarification... I believe DL has mentioned that in his first draft with LA (2006) he basically went with the scouting recommendations already devised by DT's staff. (The main exception being the Demitra trade which brought us the pick we got Lewis with, which DL clearly gets credit for.) But I think it's safe to say that Bernier would have been drafted by DT anyway, as he was the guy pegged by DT's scouts as being their 1st rounder. Then again, DL being a "build from the goal outward" type, he probably would have pick Bernier regardless of whom DT's scouts recommended.

if you build it (draft picks), they (free agents) will come...not the other way around.

DT would have traded Bernier....there had to be a 35+ year old player available that might have helped squeeze us into the 8th spot...which is why we're at the point we are now.
It was a combination of some lousy drafts and some lousy trades. that's why DL is the GM today and not DT.

Anyway..enough of Taylor as GM....
Lets see what Lombardi does during the off season and then we can judge...Even then it won't be fair either way until we see how they play next year.

Bako- thanks. And so I went back and looked at the close shut-outs. Four stand out:

1) Nov. 4 0-1 vs Ducks; lost in OT
2) Dec. 29 0-2 vs BJs; EN goal
3) Feb. 12 0-2 vs Flames; EN goal
4) Feb. 25 0-2 vs Flyers; EN goal (w/1 second to go)

Oddly we got 3 points while being shut-out.

And while I was at it, I looked at other close games. Thrice did we give up the GWG in the last 4 minutes of the game.

For games we lost by two goals, five had empty-netters, twice they scored their last goal (not EN) with less than a minute to play.

All this confusion helps your point, we lost a lot of close games. All the more frustrating. So does TM get credit for shaping the team to keep things close? Or does he get criticized for holding onto the reigns too tightly?

Quisp.

Are you retired? If not, where on earth do you find the time to put together such detailed and organized thoughts/facts on a daily basis. Please tell me your secret, I could use some help. I must say though, I was surprised a little by the Helene Elliot comment. What is it you don't like about her? Is it because her opinions differ from yours or because she doesn't know what she's talking about?

I'm with Deadcat who cares who drafted who. We need to stop living in the past and live in the present. Now is what matters, not what happened 10 years ago. Even if you could prove who drafted better(which is all subjective), what would it prove or change anyway?...nothing.

I agree with Cristobal in the fact we are still not an attractive organization yet for free agents, but DL has certainly built a pool of talent and picks to use effectively in a trade. To get the player we're looking for, I believe almost certainly it will be done by trade.

I do not and will not compare the two(DL,TM) but will say I really like the position DL has us in. Many options and possibilities.

Cynic, just saw the Youtube piece on the Oilers. I was laughing so hard I was almost crying. You hate to see anyone ripped like that, but sometimes black humor is ... I don't know. I'm sorry but that's why this website is priceless. I wonder if Rich saw it and saw the humor in it too. Oh my. I hope they don't do that with the Kings though.

Also regarding the drafting I am someone who thought (and thinks) DT is a great guy and was a fabulous hockey player. As GM it wasn't all his fault when the drafts went badly and not all his doing when they went well. I had more questions about the scouts under his employ at the time. But Scott Barney, Matt Zultek, Lauri Tukonen and Jens Karlsson and Mattieu Biron is not a sterling record by any means for a period of seven years of first round drafting if I'm not mistaken.

I don't know if anyone noticed but the team went literally a Decade before Frolov was drafted where they didn't draft one single twenty? goal scorer that they developed themselves. You guys can check it out. I might possibly be wrong on that but if I am it's not by much. It's not amazing that you're not gonna win in the NHL if you don't draft a few guys that turn out to be twenty goal scorers. I remember thinking about that stat some time ago and with all the tooing and froing (no pun intended) above thought I'd add that to the mix.

Re Helene Elliott -

I don't know if her opinions agree with mine or not, but I do find her to be a little "imprecise." That's an opinion that's sort of built up like a plaque over the years, so I don't have any archive of facts to support it, other than the two most recent examples, which were (1) her comment that Williams is listed at 5'11" 169 and looks smaller (which was one part cherry-picking her data and one part just being mean and/or full of it -- her point being to take a shot at Lombardi who had just said the Kings needed to get bigger; so the idea of getting bigger by trading for a guy who looks like he's lighter than I was when I was 14...), and (2) her comment that POS missed the "start" of camp when of course he missed all of camp while Lombardi and POS's agent "negotiated his contract" (as though POS was just an innocent by-stander, etc.); also in that recent article was the bit about Anschutz needing to be concerned that Lombardi is (or "might be") letting his emotions get the better of him...

Actually, let's focus on that last bit, because something just occurred to me. I couldn't quite put my finger on what annoyed me about that comment, until just now. Elliott in her open letter is making a laundry list of things that Anschutz is not paying attention to which he should be. And one of them is that Lombardi is, essentially, out of control. That is essentially what she's saying by suggesting that his emotions are influencing trades, and therefore the fate of the team. Now, for starters, this pisses me off because she doesn't even attempt to be balanced about it. She just makes the dig and lets it hang there like it's an undisputed fact.

She may well have reason to believe that Lombardi is doing exactly what she's accusing him of doing. But she doesn't offer any actual writing on this topic. It's just an insinuation. It's gossip. And, in the context of her previous comments about the POS trade, it's obviously pay-back for that trade.

She apparently thinks Lombardi did wrong by Cammy, POS and the Kings, but she isn't going to really address it in any way. She's just going to get her dig in. And of course she's respected and respectable so many people take what she says to be trustworthy and valid.

Personally, as you know, I am on the fence about the POS trade, and will be until Williams produces. But I get the motivation behind it, without ascribing any irrational motives to Lombardi. Namely, Lombardi wants proven scorers who can drive to the net, don't play the perimeter, and DO play defense. POS, of whom I have always been a fan, has not yet learned to crash the net. He is a perimeter player. He's got skills. But he isn't physical. And he's potentially great, but by no means proven. You can bat the trade pros and cons back and forth, and there are reasons to argue both sides. But Elliott doesn't bother. She just makes unsubstantiated gossipy insinuations.

And what is the purpose of her comment in the first place?

To get Anschutz to do something about Lombardi. Well, this is possibly the most irritating part. I don't want ownership to do something about Lombardi. I want ownership to give him more money to do what he can do to build this team. The implication of her comment is that if Ancschutz were paying attention -- were more "hands on" -- for crying out loud) -- then Lombardi wouldn't have been able to trade Cammalleri and POS away. I am of the opinion that paying Cammy $6MM a year would have been a disaster for the Kings, for the contracts that came after (Brown, Kopitar, POS, etc.) and because he wasn't, to put it politely, "a good fit." Lombardi traded Cammy because the writing was on the wall that the Kings wouldn't be able to pay him and he would walk for nothing in return. Now Calgary is faced with exactly the same situation, and Cammy will probably walk (in this sense it sounds like exactly the opposite of Lombardi letting his emotions influence decision-making; it seems dispassionate and prudent). Of course, that's another trade/decision we can all debate endlessly...but at least do it with facts. I can respect a good argument waged with actual facts. But just to write the whole thing off as Lombardi's "emotions affecting personnel decisions"... I think it's poisonous.

Okay, that's off the top of my head. I'm sure she's venerable and all that.

Thought I read somewhere a while back that Brian Campbell had his ice time cut because of uninspired play and that Chicago will be in deep do-do after next season because of the fat contracts they handed out to Campbell and Huet because the contracts for Toews and Kane expire after next season and they may each want a little raise…

Maybe DL should save some of that cap space for 2010?

Quisp

You also get the idea that she has it in for Lombardi because he probably doesn't give her the scoops she's looking for or the time she demands.
I notice DL does speak to the internet media or the electronic media more than the local scribes . Rich might have a better opinion on this.

She used to write for the local paper here..Newsday. She was the Islanders beat writer.
Certainly nothing special and if my memory serves me, she had her heroes and villains here as well.

Quisp,

Just looking at stats after your draft breakdown (though its a bit selective, not listing DL's busts in the first round or mentioning where the players were taken) but it's interesting that Erhoff is having a good offensive season but has the worst plus/minus on the defense for San Jose.
Goc has fallen off the map offensively, to say nothing of the once fifty goal scorer Cheechoo.

My concern in continuing with Terry Murray is more confusion in the team and more negativity and ill-feeling between players and management. I don't think Murray has what it takes to be a head coach.
I think Lombardi's drafting is admirable here in LA (i noticed you don't mention that he traded the Lecavalier pick away while in San Jose) but I am likewise skeptical that he's got any real clue when it comes to building a complete team.

Taylor was learning the ropes and was a career-King. I think it's unfortunate that a guy who had no grooming and never got to build up relationships around the league got fired by Tim Lieweike because Lieweke doesn't know a thing about sports other than that they can be made profitable.

There's nothing else to do but sit back and see what happens, but if this thing gets much worse we could be seeing our team folded or moved because the fans cannot be expected to show up in Los Angeles for hockey if its always finishing at the bottom.

As a Kings fan for 20 years, I most enjoyed the 2000 and 2001 seasons where the Kings were a home-built club that appeared to be on the cusp of something great. I could have suffered through a few more years of Taylor if he'd been able to hire a coach again.
I realize he's not perfect, but he was a King through and through and those owners and their lackey fired him.
I think it's a disgrace considering he never had a level playing field in spending with the Colorado's and Detroit's of the league.
In that sense, I can see why you don't like Blake much, but again, he was pobably tired of AEG nonsense rather than of playing in Los Angeles or Dave Taylor.

Cheers

Man, some of you guys should get jobs as revisionist historians.

cristobal- "Taylor was learning the ropes and was a career-King. I think it's unfortunate that a guy who had no grooming and never got to build up relationships around the league .." he had a very respectable and long career as a player and was GM for almost 10 years. "learning the ropes", "never got to build up realtionships", are you serious???

Have a good day all and enjoy the last game of the season.

On the contrary, Cristobal, Dave Taylor was groomed by Sam McDisaster as the next GM of the Kings. I wonder if anyone other than me recalls as his appointment being a foregone conclusion back then?