Quote of the day

“We couldn’t be satisfied with 12-14,000 people every night and we couldn’t look at an 88-point season (in 2007-08), where we missed the playoffs, as, `Well, we improved 17 points, we’re getting there.’ None of those were acceptable. We put expectations on everyone in that organization, certainly including me. I’m pretty tough on myself. We needed to put expectations on it. There was some criticism of, `Well, you can’t put expectations on an organization that hasn’t made the playoffs in X number of years,’ and, `These are young kids and don’t put too much pressure on them.’ Well, I think when we play, or we get involved in any of this, ultimately your goal is to win. So why not say it? We expected sellouts. We had expectations to make the playoffs. So we’re pleased with the progress, but all of us feel we have a long way to go.”

– Chicago Blackhawks president John McDonough, yesterday on ESPN 1000 radio in Chicago.

—–

I wonder if I would get the same type of quote out of Dean Lombardi? Then again, with all respect to McDonough, it’s a bit easier to tout your successes when you’re sitting in the Western Conference Finals. I’m not sure we would be reading that quote if the `Hawks had been swept out of the first round. Still, given the comparisons some have made between the Kings and Blackhawks, I thought it was an interesting quote.

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  • sparky

    Oh boy! Get the torches and pitchforks, here come all of the DL hate-mongers and endless rants. Rich, what have you done?!!! All joking aside, this is one of those things that make you go “Hmmm”. Great quote, and as always thanks so much Rich for all that you do!

  • NOT IMPRESSED

    That’s the difference between good management and Dean Lombardi management. The Kings could at least have done what St. Louis did this year, had they not made a couple of trades. I think St. Louis was predicted to finish last this year by quite a few writers.
    I’ve said it before, Dean is great at recognizing and picking young talent, but his track record on trades is not very good.

  • Daniel

    Rich,

    I agree with you in that these words were born of confidence in the now, not of the future. If the quote had been in 2008, that would be a different story. Mr. Lombardi can’t make that quote in the same context as Mr. McDonough.

    Also, what was the question? If it were something to the extent of,”Are you satisfied with your team’s success over the past 5 years”, then maybe you get something similar. I am thinking that any team president has selling-out stadiums and prolonged playoff success as main objectives for their franchises.

  • Irish Pat

    Yeah, I think that’s a little easier for him to say heading into the Western Conference Finals. And saying that now seems to indicate that making it this far is good enough for now. Hooray team, you made it this far and that’s all we needed to make a nice profit for the season.

    Cynicism aside, Rich pointed out the comparison people make between the Hawks and Kings which is fair except that the Hawks have an elite goalie that has won the Cup.

    Question for my fellow bloggers:
    Would you rather have Quick, Bernier, Jones and Zatkoff in the pipeline for the future than an aging goalie who MIGHT win you the Cup this season and possibly walk as a free agent after this season is finished?

  • mrbrett7

    ‘Bulin is about as elite as Giguere is…in other words, neither are elite goaltenders.

    Yes…both have won the cup. Neither won the cup BECAUSE of their play. Especially in Khabibulin’s case…

    Just look at Osgood…how many rings does he have? Are you calling him elite? There are easily 30 goaltenders in the NHL who are better than he is. He just happens to play and have played on some of the best teams and best defensive teams in the past 25 years.

  • Quisp

    Yes, an elite goalie that started the season as the back-up and who Chicago didn’t seem to be able to give away last summer.

    The McDonough quote: seems to me it’s just the thing you say in that situation, just like the wings (or the sharks for that matter) always say, “nothing short of the cup will do” or whatever. McDonough can’t say THAT yet, but he’s graduated to the place where he can say, it’s not enough to be pretty good, or to improve, or whatever. He’s managing expectations, just like DL is managing expectations when he says, “we’re ahead of schedule.”

    None of it really means anything, does it? Chicago could easily be done now and it would be their newspapers talking about “big changes needed” instead of the papers in Vancouver (trade Luongo!) and San Jose (trade Thornton! trade Marleau!) saying it.

    I don’t really give a **** what Dean says apart from how it reflects on what he does.

    p.s. I think we can all cross Vancouver off the short-list of places Hossa might like to sign. Probably San Jose, too.

    Detroit wins tonight 5-2.

  • billd

    The Black Hawks never did anything until OLd Man Wirtz died and his sons took over running the team. As long as ownership puts the bottom line and image ahead of winning the Kings will never do anything other than hope to make the playoffs with no chance of winning a championship. Just like the Clippers

  • AK47

    As much as I love the Kings, we are no where near the Blackhawks momentarily.. Who’s our Patrick Kane? Who’s our Jonathan Toews?

    If by any way DL is able to sign Marian Hossa, then I’m changing my mind on DL’s management skills when it comes to signing free agents.. We all know how good he is at drafting, but not signing free agents. He also needs to understand how pointless Ivanans is..

    The off-season is meant to fill team’s holes, not to rebuild teams and I’m scared to say that DL doesn’t even do that. He needs to understand we need a sniper, a gamebreaker and that we need a grinder, like Chris Neil or Travis Moen or Andrew Peters or Chad LaRose or Blair Betts or maybe even bringing back Ian Laperriere. Signing one of those guys would be a great pick up.

    I’m scared that if we miss out on Gaborik, Hossa or Havlat, DL will settle for a guy like PJ Axelsson or Maxim Afinogenov or Todd Bertuzzi or Richard Zednik or Mike Knuble, and that’s not how you do it. That’s what he did when we missed out on on Briere and Drury, we settled for the tier 2 guys, like Handzus, Calder and Nagy. We don’t need anymore has-beens.

    An interesting guy we can look into is Tomas Kopecky, young 26 year old who plays for Detroit, has won a Stanley Cup and is also overshadowed by the rest of that team. His contract is up and will probably come cheap, plus there’s absolutely no way Detroit can re-sign him. As a matter of fact, I’d say if we can’t get Gabby, Hossa or Havlat, Kopecky or Alex Tanguay should be the next guy in line, imo.

  • Kings Brian

    So he felt this way in the past, but only expressed it once his team reached the Western Conference Finals. Gee, I wonder why?

    We get plenty of talk regarding accountability out of DL. We aren’t lacking in that department.

  • Eric K

    mrbrett: Khabibulin’s stats from the ’03 playoffs.

    16-7, 1.71 GAA, .933 SV%

    Giguere’s stats from the ’07 playoffs.

    13-4, 1.97 GAA, .922 SV%

    don’t know if they’re elite, but i’m pretty sure their play helped in winning the Cup.

  • Irish Pat

    mrbrett7,

    Fair points made and “elite” is the wrong term for me to use to describe ‘Bulin, after all he has never been a Vezina finalist, but I have to respectfully disagree that he wasn’t key to the Lightning winning the Cup. His play was exceptional that postseason. You’re right about Osgood, but Khabibulin is a very good goalie. I’m not a goalie myself but if there are any goalies out there I’m sure they’ll back me up on this. He may seem disinterested during the regular season at times, but he is exceptional when it counts. Giguere too.

    Quisp,

    Chicago couldn’t give him away because of that retarded contract they signed him to and only wanted to get rid of him because they made the mistake of putting their eggs in Huet’s basket before dumping ‘Bulin’s contract. ‘Bulin was the back-up because of the Huet signing not because he is a back-up. Where’s Huet now? Come on Quisp, you’re better than that.

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    I absolutely agree that the goal of the Kings needs to be set higher. Expectations can breed success, if done in a constructive way. There needs to be a PLAN.

    Funny thing about your quote, though. He is saying what is appropriate for a final 4 GM in 2009. Suppose there is a Sophomore Slump next year for the Hawks (likely in my opinion, given the makeup of the team and the outsized production of 3rd and 4th line players who will have to be replaced or re-signed at ridiculous levels)? Will he be disappointed in himself publicly if Chicago’s secondary scoring drops off to zero if guys like Havlat and Byfuglien are gone? What will his PLAN be for next year? After all, outsized results breed outsized expectations.

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    Of course, My Bad…

    Chicago Blackhawks president John McDonough is NOT the GM…

  • -J

    AK47- Zednik signed up with Lokomotiv with the KHL, so you don’t have to worry about that.

    As for Kopecky, I don’t think a guy who has scored 12 goals in 180+ NHL games should be the next guy in line. Just like the kings don’t need has beens, they don’t need never weres. Moreover, Kopecky didn’t play at all in Detroit’s playoff/cup run last years because he was out recovering from a knee injury (he’d fit right in, huh), so you can’t say he “won” a cup.

  • Bernie V

    I have been a KINGS fan for 22 years. I thought we might stop making excuses and get things done this season. Well here i am again watching my #2 alltime fav {who actually got me into watching hockey back in the day} “Chicago Blackhawks” go on in the playoffs. I cant believe the DUCKS even passed us in quality and won a cup in thier MUCH shorter time! It sucks. I Hate Anaheim with thier wanna be Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim? What is that……They are’nt even in L.A. County? But i will ALWAYS be a KINGS fan. Just dissapointed………..

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    -J

    On teams like the Red Wings, players in line may have great talent that doesn’t get to shine because of the role they play in the system. As I recall (in my rather inexperienced memory), Zetterberg wasn’t a great NHL scorer immediately, until the slot opened up and his moment came.

    The question is: Is the necessary Skill there?

  • deadcatbounce

    BakoCAcameraGuy, the thing with the Red Wings is that they know who to keep and who to let go, and they make few mistakes. When they let Quincy go, I’m sure it was because they felt they had better prospects in the pipeline.

  • Quisp

    Irish Pat –

    I’m not saying Bulin is a bad goalie. I’m just saying this notion of elite-ness is fickle. Yes, of course his contract was the issue. Or part of the issue. But they simply wouldn’t have signed Huet to that contract if they thought they already had an elite goalie.

  • Quisp

    p.s. here’s McDonough back in October:

    “Ideally the playoffs are in our future this year,” McDonough said, “but (the fans) recognize that there is a new way of doing business at 1901 West Madison.”

    Sounds a lot more like DL here, doesn’t he? “Ideally” the playoffs are in our future? No kidding. “But” [i.e. “even if we don’t make the playoffs”] “fans recognize there’s a new way of doing business” [i.e. “we’re not the same old losers”/”we’re building something here” pick your cliche…]

    In other words, managing expectations.

  • Irish Pat

    Quisp,

    Excellent point. If they had Brodeur or Luongo I highly doubt they would have signed Huet. What I wonder is would they have signed Huet if they had Bulin in their pocket for a far more reasonable price thereby not trying to dump his huge contract? I still think signing Huet before successfully unloading Bulin was a knucklehead move by the Hawks and I still believe that their signing of Brian Campbell is going to be an albatross on their payroll before his contract expires. Of course if they win the Cup none of that will matter since that is after all the ultimate prize.

  • uknojata

    would McD make those comments if the blackhawks wern’t wining? of course not. but how many front offices are already lowering expectations for next year? I still can’t beleive DL said that missing the playoffs next year would be ok. is that how you motivate a young team? is that how you bring a wining attitude to your organization? I lost a lot of respect for DL after that.

  • Kings20

    The Kings are on the right track people. Anyone who forgets that DL built the Sharks is shortsighted. Yeah maybe they never have done damage in the playoffs but you can’t argue w/ their overall success. DL built a great team there, he’s building one here, and he just neeeds to sign that sniper (w/ the help of ownership) and we’re on our way to matching or surpassing the Ducks.

    ps who can respect a team w/ a Wild Wing staute in front of their arena?? Its a child’s organization

  • Johnny Utah

    No…Deano would never say that (at least not this year).

    He already got us fired up for next year with his “missing the playoffs will not be a disappointment” comments a couple weeks ago.

    Love what Deano has done thus far, but that was really weak. At some point the playoffs have to become the expectation. Having that expectation breeds winning.

  • mrbrett7

    I’ll leave it at this.

    In my mind, there are very few “elite” goaltenders playing today.

    Broduer, Luongo…yeah, that’s about it.

    There are plenty of good goaltender’s, Giguere and Khabibulin being two of them.

    Some people equate how good someone is based on how they perform in the playoffs…I base how good of a player they are on how they perform from Game #1 of the season until their teams lifts the cup.

  • anthonyy

    DL will not say much, it might make him look stupid.
    He’s got very little credibilty. When he opens his mouth, he ends up putting his foot in it.

    BTW, here’s to watching Ryan Getz-ass and hair club for men and his cheap shot pals hit the golf course tomorrow.

  • deadcatbounce

    Irish Pat, couldn’t agree with you more about Campbell. Don’t think he earned his salary this year. What in the world are the “Hawks going to do after next season, when they have to re-sign both Toews and Kane?!?!?!

  • -J

    Bako- Zetterberg put up 22 goals in his first year (79 games) so that’s not a favorable comparison. More recently, Hudler put up 15 in his first full year (76 games). Kopecky, at 26 year old, has yet to reach either of those totals in his entire career (12 goals in 183 games). While it is possible that he has more offensive talent than he’s shown, usually true NHL-caliber offensive talents put up points regardless of where/what role they’re playing. If anyone thinks a guy who has 5.3 career shooting % is going to come to the kings and all of a sudden be potting 20-30 goals a season, you’re dreaming.

  • khanon81

    I have full confidence in DL and hopes he will acquire grit where needed

  • Tornado12

    Johnny U,
    Did DL really say that? I was under the impression that he believed he always expects the kings to make the playoffs! That really is weak sauce if he said that and will have lost all confidence in him!

  • AK47

    J-

    I really think Kopecky would fit well in LA, alot better than Brad Richardson did, and he can actually play the LW on our second line. Now I think DL should go this route only if we miss out on the 3 big fish. Kopecky brings experience from being in a locker room full of champions, something we evidently lack and he’ll bring this experience to a young team… and he’s only 26.. He put up huge numbers in the AHL, 36 goals in one season, I think.. He was just never able to put up those numbers in the NHL because he was on an amazing team.. The fact that he didn’t put up huge number in the NHL is a plus for us because he’ll have to sign for less money since he’s never proved anything..

    Frolov-Kopitar-Williams
    Kopecky-Moller-Brown
    Lewis-Stoll-Purcell
    Clune-Handzus-Simmonds

    This is a solid lineup imo

  • deadcatbounce

    Just a friendly reminder that the road is littered with AHL superstars. The Kings had Craig Duncanson and Dan Gratton, just to name two.

  • variable

    yeah…it’s a neat quote and there could be some parallels between the teams in spite of the varying degrees of success both have recently had…

    i agree…mcdonough’s words are no big surprise…he’s following a familiar script…and i also think that he and d.l. went to the same public speaking school…

    QUISP takes a nice pull-quote in october from mcdonough…i guess it’s all relative to yr team’s success, as many of you have already pointed out…

    i think it’s “prime time” for d.l.and co., the next few months…

    - the draft
    - the jj/fro situations
    - the free agent market

    mcdonough and crew are on the heals of making it a “miracle on ice” season…so, to be fair, there is a completely different mindset as of right now between the two organizations…

    to answer IRISH PAT’S question…

    i think you always go with the best player and the goalie who gives you the best chances of winning…you always hear about how players want to play with a goalie you don’t have to think about…
    you also have to play in the “now” because there are no guarantees in the future for anybody…if there’s a chance to win a cup, you have to pounce on that opportunity and seize it…

    so, i think yr question is a bit awkward in the sense that both scenarios are keys to a championship team and for continual franchise success…

    the ‘hawks have huet/niemi and have crawford, fallon and unice in their system…they are not necessarily in poor net-minding shape…in a way, one could argue that w/an aging khabi, they have an ideal situation where one of their youngsters can assume the everyday duties w/in two years…enough time for ‘bulin to play it out…

    so, yes, we might have some better prospects…but ultimately, the blackhawks are in good shape now and for the future…clearly, they have an edge that they are in the playoffs and now in a position to advance to play for the cup…and we are still hypothesizing, waxing and milking about this team…

  • TB

    Well said variable.

    I’m never a fan of criticizing before having trackable results. So, with DL, with what we can track, he has done well…BUT…he isn’t done. At the start of training camp, I think we can begin to give a fair evaluation. Until then, we are all taking shots in the dark. He might sign a huge UFA, or trade for someone. He might not make any moves at all with the promise of our prospects breaking through next year…who knows?

    Point being…Its too early to compare ourselves to the Hawks, they’re many steps ahead.

  • Irish Pat

    variable,

    Thank you for the well thought out reply to my question. If I may play devil’s advocate here…

    You make a good point that teams should play for the “now”, but what good does it do if you have an aging goalie and you don’t have the players yet to play in front of him because they’re still plying their trade in junior or the AHL? The Hawks are different because they have most of their core already on the big club and even if they don’t beat the Wings/Ducks they will have gained great experience.

    But.

    What if the Kings did trade for Khabibulin like so many fans and media types posited and they made the playoffs this year? Granted they would have had a chance at the Cup, but let’s say they get ousted in the first round. Is the experience this season really worth missing out on the #5 pick. St’ Louis and Columbus made the playoffs and that’s great for the fans and for revenue, but were they really going to do any damage? Is this what we can expect from these franchises next season that they hopefully squeak in?

    I remember reading Red Auerbach’s book about management and (I’m paraphrasing here) he claimed that he’d rather make the playoffs every season as a middle to low seed even if it meant never getting good draft picks because you at least have a chance of winning. At least you’re in it. A part of me agrees with him and a part of me thinks that’s crap. It’s easy for him to say because of the era he coached in and because he developed a winning culture from the get go. The Kings appear to finally be doing that. I’m glad that the Kings made improvements this season, but I’m also glad that they finished low enough to pick in the top 5 for this draft. Now, when they finally do make the playoffs… sorry, I had to pause so I can sigh at the thought of it… if they fall backward and miss the playoffs the following season I’ll be furious because they’ve set the expectation. Having Bulin, I believe, would have been detrimental to this franchise in the long run.

    Thoughts? I’d love to read ‘em.

    Sorry this is so long-winded and that I went on a bit of a tangent.

  • deadcatbounce

    Irish Pat,

    One thing about the Kings making the playoffs this year with Khavebulin is that youd have come back in September, win or lose in the first round, with a bunch of guys who have had that playoff experience. With a few shrewd signings in the offseason you could enhance your team rather than trying to create it from scratch, or at least from the base of a nonplayoff team. High draft picks are great, but not all of them make it and even fewer exceed expectations.

    One thing that the Kings need to do is to create a winning culture, both with the players and the coaching staff. They need to bring in a couple of third- and fourth-line players who have played in the trenches during the playoffs and knows what it takes to win because this team sorely lacks any kind of solid depth.

    I believe Khavebulins contract is up after this season, so youve had the experience and you can move on. I believe Chicago will do that and will pray that Huet will be up to the challenge. Khavebulin may have one good year left in him, but itll probably be with a team that has a chance to win it all because giving someone of his age a multi-year contract before the cap comes crashing down in 2010 would be economic suicide.

    Detroit?

  • Duckhunter

    The only thing worse than watching a dud game 7 between Washington and Pittsburgh, is having to listen to that frick’n knucklehead Duck announcer. He single handedly put me in a bad mood. Man, it’s hard to stomach that guy. All I want is to watch a good game 7 without having to listen to that clown.

    Someone please tell me a good joke and a radio station I can listen too.

  • deadcatbounce

    Duckhunter, why not catch the Detroit feed online?

  • variable

    IRISH PAT…

    if yr question becomes “would you have traded for ‘bulin before last season?”…i remembering saying then that if it’s a low-cost/high-reward deal, then why not…so, i wasn’t necessarily against it…the terms and what had to be given up in return apparently was a deal-breaker for d.l. as well…no matter how i think what happened for the kings/quick was ultimately great for the organization in terms of development, i’m sure ‘bulin could have done well out here, too…i think that the kings are satisfied that they were able to gauge jquick and gather his ability/potential earlier on…but if it came at the expense of making the playoffs w/’bulin, i think they would have been just as happy to see jquick perform well at the minor league level…i mean, that was the original d.l. “plan”, right?

    if yr asking “would i rather be in the kings position long-term w/the expense of not making the playoffs vs. the blackhawks making the playoffs w/their current makeup?”….that’s a tougher question…

    if the kings made the playoffs this year, you would have to figure that jj/fro are even more certain to be in the future plans of the team…and that the stress of not making it another year gets eliminated quicker…i think you always want to make the playoffs…it’s not like we are coming from a perspective of putting together 3, 4 or 5 consecutive playoff seasons, only to have early exits from each of them…we are not in a san jose situation…

    it’s nice to see chicago bounce back in a big way after years of under-achieving and mediocrity…i thought that they were the capitals of the west w/a slightly better defense…detroit will still beat them rather soundly (prediction)…

    i never like “losing” for the sake of the draft position and draft picks…to me, that’s just not the way to manage yr ball club…the art of good management is coupling what you create w/what is handed to you…i believe that in every round in almost every draft, a good player gets taken…it’s about finding that player in every round with every pick you have…

  • Duckhunter

    deadcat.

    I just might have to do that. It’s really hard going from a big screen to a computer monitor though. Thank you.

    It’s going to be a good third. I am really, really surprised Anaheim is giving the Wings a run for their money. I hope the Wings lose.

  • KevinC

    DUCKS LOSE!!! That’s all that matters right now.

    Now let us root for a Boston vs Chicago Stanley Cup Finals. (though Boston is currently losing :(

  • khanon81

    What a bummer that the Stanley Cup Ducks lost! The Eurowings are bad for the NHL while the Stanley Cup Ducks are everything the NHL should be proud of. Its a shame and a travesty for the NHL and will result in negative consequences for this league for many years to come.

  • anthonyy

    Khanon81,
    I’m sorry to see you upset.
    To feel better, why don’t have about a dozen strong shots of Vodka, then drive your car by a police station.

    The fact of the matter is that the NHL is better off without these dirty players. Nobody enjoys watching a bunch of dirty cheap shot artists. Their national ratings will be better with Detrot instead of Anaheim

    And how about that piece of sh_t Brian Hayward calling Dan Cleary a journeyman who scored a garbage goal. Guess he didn’t notice that other garbage player, Ryan Getz____ (Mr. Hair Club for Men) try to decaptitate Cleary while being in the goal crease and fighting for a rebound. Thank God Getz_____ stick missed.

    Enjoy the golf course jerk-offs!!!!

  • khanon81

    anthonyy,

    Getzlaf is the man, he makes a difference on the ice every shift. He’s a force to be reckoned with and I wish the Kings had a player like him. In fact, I would swap him for any forward on the Kings any day of the week, and that includes Kopi, Brown, among others. Also, Hayward is way better than miller and fox put together. Good day

  • Quisp

    I like Getzlaf. He’s obviously a big deal. Nice missed assignment on the season-ending goal though.

  • anthonyy

    Khanon81,
    Agreed.
    But I still hate him.
    Don’t forget the drinks.
    I’ll even buy them for you.

  • 4thlinechecker

    Getzlaf is a stud, but he sure as hell forgot to pick up his man on that last goal…… wings were the more physical team tonite I thought.

    I would have to disagree, Hayward is nowhere near as good…. Bob Miller is a hall of fame anouncer,He is to hockey and LA what Vin Scully and Chick Hearn are to the city and their sports. Hayward is nowhere near that… Hayward is waaaay to much of a homer for me

  • Quisp

    I have despised Hayward since his “Yzerman is the most hated man in hockey” comment many many years ago. But I have to say I was surprised at his restraint tonight, for example that he didn’t “decide” it was goalie interference on the last goal, and also that he noted that Pronger shoved Hudler into Hiller on the play that was incorrectly called goalie-interference on Hudler (and which led to the Ducks’ goal). The guy is a total homer and I think actually irrational about it, at times. But I wonder if maybe he’s taken some of the criticism that’s “out there” to heart.

  • 4thlinechecker

    Yeah quispy, I kinda noticed he has toned it down a lil bit, he even said Pronger deserved a penalty on the hit on Hossa behind the net for pulling him down afterward. I give him credit for trying, I am sure he knows what his critics say.

    I will admit, Bob Miller is starting to lose it a lil bit,just as Scully has and Hearn did. I notice Foxy correcting him alot more….. He is still great, I cant imagine Kings hockey without Bob… Its like the Dodgers without Vin.

    Anyhow, I love the Ducks system and I love their grit, but I hate them, it was good to see them get chin-checked tonite…… I hate the wings almost as much, Go Hawks!

  • JDM

    I am very satisfied with that turnout. Hayward is such a numbskull, but I will agree he showed some restraint tonight. I stress the term, some.

    I can never remember the other idiots name, who I don’t find too annoying usually, but tonight he picked up whatever slack Hayward left. My favorite was when the crowd booed one of the many false start calls the play by play guy said “The paying linesman are upset.”

    He was negative towards the Detroit fans several times. Why?

    I’m very excited for the Wings/Hawks series. I have faith that the Hawks can pull it out. Man that would be fun.

    Kind of what the Canes to come out of the East. This sick side of me wants Crosby to never win a cup.

  • Eric K

    A great day and a terrible day for the NHL; if only more people could’ve seen the drama today. The NHL is getting ripped across the board for their TV coverage and its limits; just swallow your pride and get every game on a channel that matters. Sorry, but VS just doesn’t have it.

    Oh, and how great would a Pens-Hawks final be for hockey? Either one of those teams winning would boost the league big-time. Your most marketable player breaks through and wins a Cup, or a long-suffering market led by two young guns (one who’s American!) experiences an amazing turnaround.

  • nykingfan

    It’s always easy to talk the talk when your team is going to the conference finals…I still believe in the plan DL has and can’t wait for next season to begin.
    I think people are taking DL’s comment regarding not making the playoffs way out of context. We all want to see them make the playoffs, but it’s more important that this team continue to improve. The playoffs will be the result of that improvement. You can only control what your team does…not the other teams. Crazy scenario…but if the 8th place team has 100 pts and the Kings end up with 98….is it a bad season?

    A note from last night and why the NHL is a disgrace under Bettman.
    How is it possible that a game 7 isn’t on national TV in this country? I’m looking all over the place for the Bruins-Carolina game and it’s nowhere to be found. I figured at least it would be on the NHL network…nah “Captains Driven” is on instead.
    How is this possible? Versus had the other game…was this a TSN exclusive? How many of us in the lower 48 states get TSN?
    Betttman is a disgrace and should be kicked out for the good of our game.
    I seriously doubt that Stern would ever allow a game 7 in the NBA to be out of reach for almost the entire country.

  • mike lopez

    personally i’d like to see Chicago versus either pittsburgh or carolina, but car would be fun cam ward is amazing

  • AK47

    nykingfan-

    It was aired on TSN here, but I understand where your frustration comes from.. Not only was it a game 7, it was a hell of a game, where even if you weren’t a huge hockey fan, you would’ve loved to watch the outcome of this game and Bettman will be the one getting punished in this situation.

    I don’t understand why Bettman won’t just let Balsillie buy the Coyotes.. We all know how bad they are doing with their income, and the guy is offering a lot more money then they are even worth.. Bettman just wants to prove that he’s a genius and that he can probably take the Coyotes out of their financial woes just like he did with Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Ottawa, like boohoo.. Let the multi billionaire buy Phoenix and move them to Canada

  • TB

    khanon81…Kings fan or Ducks fan? I don’t get it…

    But in regards to Getzlaf, lets be honest, he’s a supreme talent and we hate him because he’s not a King. Yes, he’s a gritty, dirty, do whatever it takes kinda guy. And no matter how we feel about it, he’s wearing a cup ring because of it. We need more grit on this team, and as much as I love Kopitar’s game, he could learn a thing or two about willingness to do whatever it takes and overall physical play. The hard part is we all know Kopi just isn’t that same type of guy. I guess Spezza could be seen in that same light…hmmmm….

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    AK47-

    As said here by many, Bettman will NEVER allow Balsillie into the NHL frozen little boy’s club because of:

    1): the Toronto Maple Leafs;
    2): the Toronto Maple Leafs;
    3): the Toronto Maple Leafs;
    4): the Toronto Maple Leafs;
    5): the Toronto Maple Leafs

    End of Story

  • Duckhunter

    Where on earth did Carolina come from. Last nights game was the only Hurricanes game I’ve seen all year and I’m still trying to figure out who’s on that team. They have Ward and Staal of course, but who else is on that team that makes them so competitive? By the way, congrats to both Gleason and Corvo. I liked them both when they were here….probably more so Gleason than Corvo but I’ll be rooting for then both against Pittsburgh.

    Kopi definitely lacks the mean streak Getzlaf possesses but has a bit more skill when he decides to use it. Kopi didn’t play like we expected him to this season, but you saw the light go on towards the end of the year. I think he knows what to expect next year, including being in shape,(which in my mind was his biggest problem)and I’m confident he’ll have a monster year. I like Getzlaf as well but he’s not on our team.

  • khanon81

    TB said:
    “khanon81…Kings fan or Ducks fan? I don’t get it…”

    I’m a Kings fan, but at the same time, I’m a fan of a particular style that the Stanley Cup Ducks posses. I enjoy watching a team play physical, tough, and skilled at the same time. And yes, they may be dirty and cheap at times, but you have to give them credit for backing it up when called upon, like when Scott Neidermeyer elbowed Datsyk in the head, he answered for the dirty elbow by dropping his mitts. I like that kind of hockey and its nice to have a local team with that style and honor. I only hope that the Stanley cup duck style will rub off on DL, which in turn will rub off on the Kings, but players like Frolov and moller have to go in order to make that possible.

  • nykingfan

    I don’t agree at all that Moller and Fro have to go for that to happen.
    You don’t fill out a roster with every player being the same type of player.
    Selanne’s not that type of guy…yet he fits in perfect with that team.
    I do agree that the Kings need to develop that style of play…and guys like Williams will be a big part of that…but you still need the skill guys as well to win.

  • JDM

    See, I can understand giving the Ducks credit, because rationally, they deserve a great deal for the way that team has been built.

    I can understand wanting the Kings to emulate that style.

    I can’t understand actually rooting for and enjoying the Ducks.

    To me, part of fandom is rivalries. Considering that the term originates from the word ‘fanatic’, love for one’s team is bolstered and made more fun by hatred of a rival.

    The Ducks are the King’s rival. Period. End of story.

    You can enjoy both, but be a real fan of neither. To be a real fan of either is to have a healthy disdain of the other.

    I guess I could be wrong…

    And Frolov and Moller don’t preclude the team from having any particular style.

    I enjoy a rough and tumble game as much as anybody. I thought the fighting at the end of game 6 was great. I can admit that the Ducks are very effective. But honorable? God no. Far from it.

    Elbowing Datsyuk in the head was funny and interesting and fun to watch as a removed third party on a couch. But in no way, shape or form was that honorable. In fact, it was downright dishonorable. Scum. Cool to watch, but very very scummy.

  • TB

    khanon81…I appreciate your stance on it, but being a fan is just hard to fathom. I watch every single televised game no matter who is playing. So when the ducks are on, ya…I watch. But I’m always hoping they lose. They’re the only other team in the league I wish that for every single time they play.

    But Moller has to go? He’s got serious potential. Its way to early to assume that he doesn’t have that level of compete in his game. Especially when all the indicators so far have pointed to him having great leadership skills. Wow…blown away by that comment.

  • nykingfan

    Well said JDM
    As someone who lives in NY…Ranger and Islander fans have nothing but intense hatred for the other and their teams. I don’t know of a single hockey fan in NY, who’s a fan of either, that thinks differently.
    At Madison Square Garden they’ve been chanting “Beat your wife Potvin” since the days when Denis Potvin played….20 years ago…yet the chant goes up in the garden to this day every time they play. It’s part of what makes the rivalry so great…even now that the Islanders suck…the hatred remains.

  • AK47

    Frolov and Moller have to go, wow are you kidding?

    Anyways, back to reality.. Tomas Kopecky is 6’3″, 200 lbs.. DL needs to look into acquiring this kid, I think he can shine for us! In 2005-2006, he put up 32 goals and 37 assists while playing for the Grand Rapids in the AHL in 77 games.. If DL will give up a 2nd rounder for a guy like Brad Richardson, why doesn’t he just sign a guy who’s actually put up big numbers in the closest league to the NHL.. He wasn’t able to show his skills in Detroit like most of the young guys on that team and he’s only 27! Slovakian kid, he’ll get along with Handzus :)

  • deadcatbounce

    I think that Fro and Moller have to go because they’re European, and Europeans don’t fit in in some peoples’ idea of a good, well-rounded hockey club. As for Kopecky, he was good on Grand Rapids, and I know that the Kings have been playing like they’re the Griffins for the past five or so years, but they want to start playing like they’re a real NHL club. 30-something goals in the AHL doesn’t automatically translate to 30-something goals in the NHL.

  • khanon81

    JDM said:
    “The Ducks are the King’s rival. Period. End of story.”

    Actually, no disrespect but the Stanley cup ducks are not the King’s rival. In fact, the Kings don’t have an actual “Rival.” To me as sad as it is, at the moment, the Stanley cup ducks are like the Lakers and the Kings are like the clippers whether you like it or not. The Kings haven’t done a damn thing in their 40+ years in the NHL, while the Ducks have a cup and great success in the playoffs in only a fraction of existence in the NHL.

    Therefore, you can root for the stanley cup ducks. However, I don’t root for them as the Ducks, I root for them because of their style, a style I hope every team emulates after especially the Kings.

    With that said, I really don’t think Frolov can be a good playoff player. A player that disappears in terms of intensity and work ethic during the regular season rarely performs in the playoffs, unless you’re a physical player like Peca or a younger Claude Lemieux- exceptions to the norm. Moller I must admit we simply don’t know enough about him to make that assertion, so I will temporarily take that back. However, I truly believe that Moller cannot be effective playing with other small or non-physical players. On the Stanley cup ducks, i could see him possibly playing very well when surrounded with players like Getzlaf, perry, Ryan…

  • khanon81

    On a slightly different note, how about Jerry Buss purchasing the Kings again and going back to purple and gold? That would be awesome

  • -J

    AHL production is not an accurate predictor of nhl success. I can list tons of guys who have put up numbers at the AHL level but not been able to match in the NHL- Law, Westrum, Haydar, Brad Smyth (former king), Ramzi Abid, K. Aucoin, Denis Hamel, and so on. These are just some of the guys that put up more points than Kopecky in the AHL that year, but none have really done any damage in the NHL.

  • JDM

    khanon,

    The Lakers/Clippers comparison stings, but there is some truth to it.

    I don’t think that discounts the Ducks as rivals though. I know what you mean in the sense that they haven’t had those big playoff battles against eachother that breed many rivalries. But they will. Its only a matter of time until they meet in the playoffs.

    Regardless of playoff encounters, the Ducks are the cross-town rival. And not because marketing told us that there was a freeway face-off. This has been a regular season rivalry since the Ducks came around.

    As soon as they were announced as an expansion team, myself and I’m most most Kings fans thought, “Now what the hell is a damn Disney team doing down there?”

    Others took off and bought cheaper Ducks season tickets because they were fed up with the Kings.

    In fact, a large contigency of the Ducks initial fanbase were impatient Kings fans. This is one of the reasons the Ducks can’t sell out their home playoff games even AFTER winning the cup, while the Kings can sell out games during a losing season. Kings fans are fans, always and forever. Flaky fans are Ducks fans, because they used to be Kings fans, but jumped ship at the sight of a shiny new team, and thus are inherently more fickle as to their hockey fandom.

    The rivalry is there. No doubt about that.

    Lets also be fair. The Kings have no cups in 40+ years, true. But they do have a strong sense of history amongst the fans, something the Ducks don’t have.

    I’ll take the cup though anyday ofcourse.

    But the Laker/Clipper comparison only goes so far. The Lakers have had true dynasties. The Ducks have been good, but not THAT good. The Kings have also only been like the Clippers for a few seasons. So yeah, if you take the last 3-5 years as a microcosm of the Ducks 10+ years and the Kings 40+, then its a fair comparison. But beyond that it doesn’t hold up.

    As for the rest of your post… we can’t assume to know how Frolov will play in the playoffs, because we’ve never seen him there. Frolov does take naps from time to time, so I understand your concern. But Frolov also often times steps up when others are injured. He also is the one pushing the envelope at the end of games when we are down by a goal. I have a distinct memory this season of many late-game tying goals being in one way or another because of Frolov. So it really could go either way. He might vanish, that’s a very real possibility.

    But he also might be our most valuable player. Taking the dog minutes, killing PK time with his strength on the puck, and still leading the team in goals.

    None of us can say with any certainty which it will be. You either have faith or doubt at this point, and that’s all you get.

    Glad you can admit you need to give Moller more time. Moller has as much energy, intensity and passion in him as Getzlaf or Perry or Ryan, he just doesn’t have the frame to match.

    And yes, Purple and Gold would be cool, but I’m really digging the new Black jerseys. I would like it if they made those the regular home jersey. The purple and white is just not very good.

  • khanon81

    JDM said:
    “Moller has as much energy, intensity and passion in him as Getzlaf or Perry or Ryan, he just doesn’t have the frame to match.”

    I don’t understand why people keep on making assertions like this. What makes Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan effective is their willingness to drop the mitts, along with their offensive talent, grit, size, and character. We all know that Moller will NEVER drop em, so I can’t really see that comparison. I’ve seen Moller play with intensity, passion, and energy probably 5% of the time he’s on the ice, so I don’t really see that in him. Maybe he will possess those attributes in the future and maybe he won’t, only time will tell. In the first few games of the season he was playing physical, but so was POS, and both of them quickly dissipated their physicalness. And keep in mind that this was before his collarbone injury. I would trade him in a heart beat along with Fro if we could get a solid player like Lecavlier or Nash. Don’t like Kovolchuk though.

  • JDM

    Has nothing to do with dropping the mitts. That helps those players leadership abilities but has little to do with their play on the ice. So Moller has offensive talent, grit and character (obviously he doesn’t have size), but the willingness to fight is what tips the scale in terms of being an effective NHLer? I just can’t understand that thinking khanon. You can like players that drop the mitts, I do too. You can say it adds to their leadership and expands their role on the ice, but I can’t see how you feel that this one thing is the golden key to the door of NHL success.

    And I bet under the right circumstances Moller would scuffle. He’s not a soft kid, he’s just more interested in what goes on during play on not once the whistle has blown.

    We must have been watching different players. I saw Moller finish every check and hustle every shift. Before and after the injury.

  • deadcatbounce

    Jerry Buss didn’t care about the Kings the first time he had them, so I don’t see him repurchasing them anytime soon. I do like the old purpole and gold, though, especially the jrseys from the very early years.

  • JDM

    I think the best would be if they kept this new black jersey, but put a stencil of the old purple/gold crown on it, still black.

    Then make the away jersey a white jesey with a black crown with gold trim. Black stripes on the sweater.

    3rd jerseys are the throwback, full on gold sweaters with purple stripe and trim.

    How great would that be?!?!

  • deadcatbounce

    As a former game-worn jersey collector, I think that third jerseys are awful. They’re only a marketing ploy to get all of us to buy more merchandise. I have a few thirds in my collection, but I got out when they started having three sets of home and road jerseys and one-game wonder jerseys for off-their-backs nights and crap like that.

    On a different note, does anyone know how many times soft Wayne Gretzky dropped the gloves?

  • khanon81

    deadcatbounce said:
    “On a different note, does anyone know how many times soft Wayne Gretzky dropped the gloves?”

    Thats irrelevant because hes generally viewed as the best player in the history of the game. I don’t think Moller comes to his pinky toes in terms of anything. I will admit one thing though, I was never a fan of Gretz nor do I rank him as the best player ever. I honestly think Mario was the best player ever and he would have beat Gretz’s record if he didnt suffer from all those back injuries, not to mention people actually hit Mario and challenged him, whereas Gretz never encountered an opposing player that played him physical, with the exception of Esa.

  • JDM

    oooh, you mean 3rd jerseys in general, right? Not specifically the Kings 3rd jersey?

    I kind of like seeing something different now and again.

    Yeah, Gretzky definately pounded some face while that wuss McSorely aint doughnuts. ;)

  • deadcatbounce

    khanon81, it’s amusing to see how arbitrarily you make certain things irrelevant when they don’t fit into your argument. I wasn’t asking if Gretzky was the best player ever, I was asking how many times he dropped the gloves. Gretzky didn’t encounter a player who played him physically because the Oilers teams would warn the opposition that if they touched the kid they’d die. The world is full of shoulda, coulda, wouldas, but the fact is that mario didn’t beat Gretzky’s records, period, end of conversation.

  • deadcatbounce

    Here are the all-time leading scorers in American Hockey League history. There’s probably a reason why they never made a significant mark in the NHL.

    Rank | Player | Years | points (current)
    1 | Willie Marshall | (1952-1972) | 1375
    2 | Fred Glover | (1948-1968) | 1334
    3 | Jody Gage | (1979-1996) | 1048
    4 | Tim Tookey | (1980-1995) | 974
    5 | Dick Gamble | (1954-1970) | 892
    6 | Mike Nykoluk | (1956-1972) | 881
    7 | Harry Pidhirny | (1948-1966) | 829
    8 | Jim Anderson | (1954-1970) | 821
    9 | Mitch Lamoureux | (1982-1999) | 816
    10 | Bill Sweeney | (1957-1969) | 804
    11 | Bruce Boudreau | (1978-1992) | 799
    12 | Larry Wilson | (1950-1968) | 790
    13 | Zellio Toppazzini | (1948-1964) | 786
    14 | Peter White | (1992-2005) | 783
    15 | Bruce Cline | (1955-1968) | 773
    16 | Art Stratton | (1955-1975) | 766
    17 | Bronco Horvath | (1950-1970) | 747
    18 | Fred Thurier | (1937-1952) | 744
    19 | Jim Bartlett | (1955-1973) | 742
    20 | Rene Drolet | (1962-1978) | 741
    21 | Don Biggs | (1984-1993) | 692
    21 | Dave Creighton | (1948-1969) | 692
    23 | Murray Eaves | (1982-1995) | 680
    24 | Glenn Merkosky | (1980-1991) | 678
    25 | Gerry Ehman | (1952-1967) | 676
    26 | Brad Smyth | (1994-2006) | 667
    27 | Mark Greig | (1990-2003) | 659
    28 | Jeannot Gilbert | (1964-1973) | 650
    29 | Ab DeMarco | (1938-1952) | 638
    29 | Michel Picard | (1989-2004) | 638
    31 | Brian Kilrea | (1959-1969) | 624
    32 | Ken Gernander | (1991-2005) | 623
    33 | Les Douglas | (1939-1952) | 621
    34 | Craig Darby | (1993-2006) | 620
    34 | Dunc Fisher | (1947-1960) | 620
    36 | Arnie Kullman | (1948-1960) | 619
    36 | Ross Fitzpatrick | (1982-1992) | 619
    38 | Jack Gordon | (1947-1961) | 615
    39 | Mark Lofthouse | (1977-1989) | 606
    40 | Michel Harvey | (1959-1971) | 601
    41 | Cleland “Keke” Mortson | (1953-1974) | 600
    42 | Gordie Clark | (1974-1983) | 599
    43 | Peter Ferraro | (1994-2007) | 591
    44 | Bob Solinger | (1945-1960) | 590
    45 | Geordie Robertson | (1979-1989) | 582
    46 | Les Cunningham | (1936-1947) | 579
    47 | Eddie Olson | (1946-1955) | 575
    48 | Marc Dufour | (1963-1975) | 574
    49 | Ron Attwell | (1954-1970) | 573
    50 | Wayne Hicks | (1960-1970) | 571

  • khanon81

    deadcatbounce,

    Furthermore, the truth of the matter is that Mario won more than one Cup on his own while Gretz did not. Messier even won cups on his own as well. The oilers won without Gretz.

  • JDM

    Bruce Boudreau is making a bit of a mark.

    I’d be more interested to see single season point records in the AHL, since its obvious anyone who plays enough seasons to score 500+ points in the AHL isn’t playing in the NHL.

    For the record, I think Mario was the more dominant player game to game as well, but yeah, you can’t argue with Gretzky’s records.

  • Quisp

    First of all, Bobby Orr was the best player ever.

    Second, Moller is highly physical, doesn’t shy away from high traffic areas, finishes his checks, is strong on the puck, backchecks, and is a highly-skilled sniper and playmaker. He’s 19. Let him grow up.

    Third, the Kings and the Ducks are rivals. As for the notion of the Ducks being superior to the Kings in every way imaginable, or whatever the point is, I will make this observation: the Ducks and Kings were neck and neck for most of the season, until the final month when the Ducks turned it on and squeaked into the playoffs as the 8th seed. In fact, the Kings, Ducks and St. Louis were all in a dead heat approaching the trade deadline. From that point on, the Ducks and STL played playoff hockey, the Kings did not.

    I think it’s funny that the Ducks are experiencing a kind of public relations resurgence simply because they got to the second round of the playoffs, when just a few months ago they were widely perceived to be a team in extreme decline, having fallen from Cup contender to post-Burke collapse/cap issues/rebuilding. Interestingly, by turning it on and becoming the 8th seed, upsetting the Sharks and then nearly beating the Wings, the Ducks — and Ducks fans — are feeling better about themselves than they would be if they had performed up to expectations in the first place (playing the Sharks and Wings is always a kind of win/win; the dynasty or whatever is expected to win; no loss of face for losing to those guys). Either way, they (the Ducks) are in decline. For all of their superiority to the Kings the last few seasons, I highly doubt they will outperform the Kings from this point forward. In fact, I would be willing to say they will not.

  • Irish Pat

    variable and deadcat,

    Thanks for the replies from yesterday which are further up the bracket in this column. You guys always provide interesting answers in any debate you take part in.

    khanon81,

    (sigh)… Mario won the Cup on his own? Tell that to Francis, Jagr, Murphy, Ulf Samuelson, Tocchet, Recchi, Barasso and any other player from those 2 Cup winners that helped hoist the Stanley Cup. And if Messier won the Cup on his own why did Brian Leetch win the Conn Smythe? That’s insulting to any player in any team sport to say they won it on their own. And don’t give me that argument that the team wouldn’t have won without that player- of course they wouldn’t have because they were an integral part of the TEAM and helped lead their respective TEAM to the holy land.

  • deadcatbounce

    I went through the record books and dug up the top-ten point leaders for the last 25 years for the American Hockey League. Yeah, I know I need to get a life

    One thing that occurred to me as I was copying and pasting was that if youre a consistently above-average NHL point-producer you will, in all likelihood, not be around long enough to be one of the top-scoring minor leaguers.

    1983-84
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Claude Larose | Sherbrooke | 120 |
    2 | Murray Eaves | Sherbrooke | 115 |
    3 | Mike Kaszycki | St.-Catharines | 110 |
    4 | Bruce Boudreau | St.-Catharines | 109 |
    5 | Ross Yates | Binghamton | 108 |
    6 | Mal Davis | Rochester | 103 |
    7 | Mark Lofthouse | New Haven | 101 |
    8 | Normand Aubin | St.-Catharines | 94 |
    9 | Geordie Robertson | Rochester | 91 |
    10 | Claude Verret | Rochester | 90 |

    1984-85
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Paul Gardner | Binghamton | 130 |
    2 | Claude Verret | Rochester | 93 |
    3 | Pierre Rioux | Moncton | 91 |
    4 | Steve Thomas | St.-Catharines | 90 |
    5 | Bruce Eakin | Moncton | 83 |
    6 | Larry Floyd | Maine | 81 |
    7 | Claude Larose | Sherbrooke | 79 |
    7 | Ray Cote | Nova Scotia | 79 |
    7 | Serge Boisvert | Sherbrooke | 79 |
    10 | Mike Siltala | Binghamton | 78 |
    10 | Grant Martin | Fredericton | 78 |

    1985-86
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Paul Gardner | Rochester | 112 |
    2 | Jody Gage | Rochester | 99 |
    3 | Ross Fitzpatrick | Hershey | 97 |
    3 | Tim Tookey | Hershey | 97 |
    5 | Wes Jarvis | St.-Catharines | 96 |
    6 | Geordie Robertson | Adirondack | 92 |
    6 | Daryl Evans | Binghamton | 92 |
    8 | Paul Fenton | Binghamton | 88 |
    8 | Serge Boisvert | Sherbrooke | 88 |
    10 | Tom Roulston | Baltimore | 87 |
    10 | Larry Floyd | Maine | 87 |

    1986-87
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Tim Tookey | Hershey | 124 |
    2 | Alain Lemieux | Baltimore | 97 |
    3 | Brett Hull | Moncton | 92 |
    4 | Mitch Lamoureux | Hershey | 89 |
    5 | Ross Fitzpatrick | Hershey | 85 |
    5 | Glenn Merkosky | Adirondack | 85 |
    7 | Ray Allison | Hershey | 84 |
    8 | Bruce Boudreau | Nova Scotia | 82 |
    9 | Serge Boisvert | Sherbrooke | 81 |
    10 | Wes Jarvis | Newmarket | 78 |

    1987-88
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Bruce Boudreau | Springfield | 116 |
    2 | Jean-Marc Lanthier | Fredericton | 106 |
    3 | Jody Gage | Rochester | 104 |
    4 | Alfie Turcotte | 3 teams | 102 |
    5 | Gilles Thibaudeau | Sherbrooke | 96 |
    6 | Mike Richard | Binghamton | 94 |
    7 | Murray Eaves | Adirondack | 93 |
    8 | Tim Lenardon | Utica | 91 |
    9 | Marty Dallman | Newmarket | 89 |
    9 | Tom Martin | Binghamton | 89 |

    1988-89
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Stephan Lebeau | Sherbrooke | 134 |
    2 | Murray Eaves | Adirondack | 118 |
    3 | Benoit Brunet | Sherbrooke | 117 |
    4 | Mike Richard | Baltimore | 107 |
    5 | Don Biggs | Hershey | 103 |
    6 | Terry Yake | Binghamton | 95 |
    7 | Ken Priestlay | Rochester | 93 |
    8 | Hubie McDonough | New Haven | 92 |
    8 | Ron Wilson | Moncton | 92 |
    10 | Brian Dobbin | Hershey | 91 |

    1989-90
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Paul Ysebaert | Utica | 105 |
    2 | Ross Fitzpatrick | Hershey | 103 |
    3 | Mike Donnelly | Rochester | 98 |
    4 | Mark Pederson | Sherbrooke | 95 |
    5 | Don Biggs | Hershey | 92 |
    6 | Claude Vilgrain | Utica | 89 |
    6 | Murray Eaves | Adirondack | 89 |
    8 | John LeBlanc | Cape Breton | 88 |
    8 | Donald Audette | Rochester | 88 |
    8 | Dale Krentz | Adirondack | 88 |

    1990-91
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Kevin Todd | Utica | 118 |
    2 | Patrick Lebeau | Fredericton | 101 |
    3 | Shaun Van Allen | Cape Breton | 100 |
    4 | Bill McDougall | Adirondack | 99 |
    5 | Jesse Belanger | Fredericton | 98 |
    6 | Neil Brady | Utica | 96 |
    6 | James Black | Springfield | 96 |
    6 | Michel Picard | Springfield | 96 |
    9 | Miroslav Ihnacak | Halifax | 95 |
    10 | Dan Currie | Cape Breton | 92 |

    1991-92
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Shaun Van Allen | Cape Breton | 113 |
    2 | Tim Tookey | Hershey | 105 |
    3 | Stan Drulia | New Haven | 102 |
    4 | Peter Ciavaglia | Rochester | 98 |
    5 | John Anderson | New Haven | 95 |
    6 | Greg Parks | CD Islanders | 93 |
    6 | Andrew McKim | St. John’s | 93 |
    8 | Dan Currie | Cape Breton | 92 |
    9 | Simon Wheeldon | Baltimore | 91 |
    10 | John Purves | Baltimore | 89 |

    1992-93
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Don Biggs | Binghamton | 138 |
    2 | Iain Fraser | CD Islanders | 110 |
    3 | Tim Tookey | Hershey | 108 |
    4 | Chris Tancill | Adirondack | 102 |
    4 | Peter Ciavaglia | Rochester | 102 |
    6 | Brian McReynolds | Binghamton | 100 |
    7 | Dan Currie | Cape Breton | 98 |
    8 | Tim Sweeney | Providence | 96 |
    9 | Yanic Perreault | St. John’s | 95 |
    10 | Craig Duncanson | Binghamton | 94 |

    1993-94
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Tim Taylor | Adirondack | 117 |
    2 | Rich Chernomaz | St. John’s | 110 |
    3 | Stephane Morin | Hamilton | 109 |
    4 | Jeff Nelson | Portland | 107 |
    5 | Mitch Lamoureux | Hershey | 105 |
    5 | Yanic Perreault | St. John’s | 105 |
    7 | Mike Tomlak | Springfield | 100 |
    8 | Mark Pederson | Adirondack | 97 |
    9 | Patrik Augusta | St. John’s | 96 |
    9 | Chris Snell | St. John’s | 96 |

    1994-95
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Peter White | Cape Breton | 105 |
    2 | Steve Larouche | PEI | 101 |
    3 | Andrew McKim | Adirondack | 94 |
    4 | Ralph Intranuovo | Cape Breton | 93 |
    5 | Brett Harkins | Providence | 92 |
    6 | Todd Simon | Rochester | 90 |
    7 | Michel Picard | PEI | 89 |
    8 | Mitch Lamoureux | Hershey | 85 |
    9 | Jeff Nelson | Portland | 83 |
    9 | Shawn McCosh | Binghamton | 83 |

    1995-96
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Brad Smyth | Carolina | 126 |
    2 | Jim Montgomery | Hershey | 105 |
    3 | Mike Casselman | Carolina | 102 |
    4 | Gilbert Dionne | Carolina | 101 |
    4 | Peter Ferraro | Binghamton | 101 |
    6 | Chris Ferraro | Binghamton | 99 |
    7 | Jean-Yves Roy | PEI | 95 |
    7 | Craig Charron | Rochester | 95 |
    9 | Dixon Ward | Rochester | 94 |
    9 | Brett Harkins | Carolina | 94 |
    9 | Andrew Brunette | Portland | 94 |

    1996-97
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Peter White | Philadelphia | 105 |
    2 | Terry Yake | Rochester | 101 |
    3 | Vaclav Prospal | Philadelphia | 95 |
    3 | Brian Wiseman | St. John’s | 95 |
    5 | Patrik Juhlin | Philadelphia | 91 |
    6 | Alexei Lojkin | Fredericton | 89 |
    7 | Gilbert Dionne | Carolina | 88 |
    8 | Blair Atcheynum | Hershey | 87 |
    9 | Jan Caloun | Kentucky | 86 |
    10 | Shawn McCosh | Philadelphia | 81 |

    1997-98
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Peter White | Philadelphia | 105 |
    2 | Bob Wren | Cincinnati | 100 |
    2 | Steve Guolla | Kentucky | 100 |
    4 | Daniel Briere | Springfield | 92 |
    4 | Stacy Roest | Adirondack | 92 |
    6 | Craig Reichert | Cincinnati | 87 |
    6 | Craig Darby | Philadelphia | 87 |
    8 | Brendan Morrison | Albany | 84 |
    8 | Alexei Yegorov | Kentucky | 84 |
    10 | Craig Charron | Rochester | 78 |
    10 | Shawn McCosh | Philadelphia | 78 |

    1998-99
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Domenic Pittis | Rochester | 104 |
    2 | Randy Robitaille | Providence | 102 |
    3 | John Madden | Albany | 98 |
    4 | Peter White | Philadelphia | 90 |
    5 | Jim Montgomery | Philadelphia | 87 |
    6 | Steve Brule | Albany | 84 |
    7 | Richard Park | Philadelphia | 83 |
    8 | Lonny Bohonos | St. John’s | 82 |
    9 | Craig Fisher | Rochester | 81 |
    9 | Shane Willis | New Haven | 81 |

    1999-2000
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Christian Matte | Hershey | 104 |
    2 | Mike Maneluk | Philadelphia | 87 |
    3 | Mark Greig | Philadelphia | 82 |
    3 | Derek Armstrong | Hartford | 82 |
    5 | Serge Aubin | Hershey | 80 |
    6 | Mike Craig | Kentucky | 78 |
    7 | Steve Brule | Albany | 76 |
    7 | Brad Smyth | Hartford | 76 |
    9 | Eric Boguniecki | Louisville | 75 |
    10 | Daniel Cleary | Hamilton | 74 |

    2000-01
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Derek Armstrong | Hartford | 101 |
    2 | Jean-Guy Trudel | Springfield | 99 |
    3 | Mark Greig | Philadelphia | 88 |
    3 | Ryan Kraft | Kentucky | 88 |
    5 | Bill Bowler | Syracuse | 79 |
    5 | Brad Smyth | Hartford | 79 |
    7 | Mikael Samuelsson | Kentucky | 78 |
    8 | Marty Murray | Saint John | 76 |
    9 | Jim Montgomery | Kentucky | 74 |
    10 | Steve Bancroft | Kentucky | 73 |

    2001-02
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Donald MacLean | St. John’s | 87 |
    2 | Eric Boguniecki | Worcester | 84 |
    3 | Rob Brown | Chicago | 83 |
    4 | Brad Smyth | Hartford | 82 |
    5 | Jason Chimera | Hamilton | 77 |
    6 | Justin Papineau | Worcester | 76 |
    7 | Eric Landry | Quebec | 75 |
    8 | Bob Wren | St. John’s | 73 |
    8 | Brian Swanson | Hamilton | 73 |
    10 | Craig Darby | Quebec | 71 |
    10 | Rico Fata | Hartford | 71 |
    10 | Jim Montgomery | Utah | 71 |

    2002-03
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Steve Maltais | Chicago | 86 |
    2 | Jean-Guy Trudel | Houston | 85 |
    3 | Michel Picard | Grand Rapids | 84 |
    4 | Mark Mowers | Grand Rapids | 81 |
    5 | Simon Gamache | Chicago | 77 |
    6 | Cory Larose | 2 teams | 75 |
    6 | Darren Haydar | Milwaukee | 75 |
    8 | Keith Aucoin | Providence | 74 |
    8 | Craig Darby | Albany | 74 |
    8 | Mark Greig | Philadelphia | 74 |

    2003-04
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Pavel Rosa | Manchester | 88 |
    2 | Domenic Pittis | Rochester | 77 |
    3 | Eric Perrin | Hershey | 75 |
    3 | Miroslav Zalesak | Cleveland | 75 |
    5 | Kirby Law | Philadelphia | 73 |
    6 | Brad Boyes | 2 teams | 72 |
    7 | Steve Kelly | Manchester | 70 |
    8 | Craig Darby | Albany | 69 |
    9 | Donald MacLean | Syracuse | 68 |
    9 | Jeff Hamilton | Bridgeport | 68 |

    2004-05 (This was the lockout year, wasnt it?)
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Jason Spezza | Binghamton | 117 |
    2 | Mike Cammalleri | Manchester | 109 |
    3 | David Ling | St. John’s | 88 |
    4 | Kyle Wellwood | St. John’s | 87 |
    5 | Simon Gamache | Milwaukee | 86 |
    6 | Peter Sarno | Manitoba | 82 |
    7 | Andy Hilbert | Providence | 79 |
    7 | Chris Taylor | Rochester | 79 |
    9 | Denis Hamel | Binghamton | 78 |
    10 | Eric Staal | Lowell | 77 |

    2005-06
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Kirby Law | Houston | 110 |
    2 | Erik Westrum | Houston | 98 |
    3 | Jiri Hudler | Grand Rapids | 96 |
    4 | Patrick O’Sullivan | Houston | 93 |
    5 | Darren Haydar | Milwaukee | 92 |
    6 | Denis Hamel | Binghamton | 91 |
    7 | Donald MacLean | Grand Rapids | 88 |
    8 | Ryan Shannon | Portland | 86 |
    8 | Brad Smyth | 2 teams | 86 |
    10 | Keith Aucoin | Lowell | 85 |

    2006-07
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Darren Haydar | Chicago | 122 |
    2 | Martin St. Pierre | Norfolk | 99 |
    2 | Keith Aucoin | Albany | 99 |
    4 | Brett Sterling | Chicago | 97 |
    5 | Cory Larose | Chicago | 83 |
    6 | Jason Jaffray | Manitoba | 81 |
    7 | Mathieu Darche | Worcester | 80 |
    7 | Jason Krog | Chicago | 80 |
    9 | Pierre-Alexandr Parenteau | 2 teams | 79 |
    9 | Troy Brouwer | Norfolk | 79 |

    2007-08
    Rank | Player | Team | Points |
    1 | Jason Krog | Chicago | 112 |
    2 | Martin St. Pierre | Rockford | 88 |
    3 | Ted Purcell | Manchester | 83 |
    4 | Pierre-Alexandr Parenteau | Hartford | 81 |
    5 | Cal O’Reilly | Milwaukee | 79 |
    6 | Brad Moran | Manitoba | 77 |
    7 | Jeff Tambellini | Bridgeport | 76 |
    7 | Rob Schremp | Springfield | 76 |
    9 | Pascal Pelletier | Providence | 75 |
    10 | Grant Stevenson | Quad City | 73 |

    Should I do the International Hockey League as well?

  • khanon81

    Irish Pat,

    By “on his own,” I’m referring to winning a cup on a different team in reference to the Oilers.

  • khanon81

    Quisp said:

    “First of all, Bobby Orr was the best player ever.”

    I won’t disagree on this one, Bobby Orr was a great player, I think its a toss up between Mario and Orr but either way you can’t go wrong.

    “Second, Moller is highly physical, doesn’t shy away from high traffic areas, finishes his checks, is strong on the puck, backchecks, and is a highly-skilled sniper and playmaker.”

    Moller is not highly physical and he’s week on the puck, gets easily knocked off the puck and knocked on his butt. He gets pushed around, can’t stand in front of the net more than a second or two before he gets pushed out. He may be highly skilled at lower levels of competition, but has yet to prove that at the NHL level. Frankly, he needs to spend a couple years in the AHL and prove he can play because he’s not ready for the NHL, nor do I think he may ever be ready. Only time will tell…

    “I will make this observation: the Ducks and Kings were neck and neck for most of the season, until the final month when the Ducks turned it on and squeaked into the playoffs as the 8th seed. In fact, the Kings, Ducks and St. Louis were all in a dead heat approaching the trade deadline. From that point on, the Ducks and STL played playoff hockey, the Kings did not.”

    Lets be real here. Although the Kings and stanley cup ducks were battling for a playoff spot late in the season, the two teams are on totally different levels. Nobody wanted to play the ducks, including the wings and sharks, but they would have loved to play either the kings, blues, or jackets for that matter. No comparison whatsoever and I never dwell on how teams perform during the regular season because some teams, like the ducks and also the hurricanes, are built for the playoffs. Thats just the way it is…

  • Quisp

    “Moller is not highly physical and he’s week [sic]on the puck, gets easily knocked off the puck and knocked on his butt. He gets pushed around, can’t stand in front of the net more than a second or two before he gets pushed out. He may be highly skilled at lower levels of competition, but has yet to prove that at the NHL level. Frankly, he needs to spend a couple years in the AHL and prove he can play because he’s not ready for the NHL, nor do I think he may ever be ready.”

    I stand by my assessment of Moller, which, if you check the archives (not that there’s any reason to do this) you will see I have maintained since long before he made the team out of camp last fall.

    By highly physical, I am not saying he is out there crushing people; I’m saying he is not a perimeter player; he gets his nose dirty; despite what you say, he does go to the front of the net; he works the corners. He hits and he takes hits. Your attitude re European v. North American players has been duly noted, but in this case you’re description of Moller is basically a description of Lauri Tukonen or, for that matter Patrick O’Sullivan. There are players who play soft, or play a perimeter game, or who avoid the boards and the blue paint. Moller is just not one of them.

    He’s a f’ing kid. He is playing a man’s game using a kid’s body. The mental part, which you appear to be missing completely, is already there. This is why he made the team. Once his frame fills in, he will be better than fine.

    That’s two points of contention between us we can easily monitor going forward: (1) Moller will be an NHL-er and he will play in the tough areas; (2) the Kings record will be better than the Ducks record, as a franchise, from this day forward.

    But hey, I’ve been wrong before. I was sure the Bruins were going to beat the Habs in ’79. And in ’71 (f’ing Ken Dryden — who ever heard of a guy winning playoff MVP the year BEFORE he wins rookie of the year??). I thought it was stupid for Kirk Gibson to give up football for baseball. As you say, time will tell.

    GIven your prejudices, I predict you will like Geordie Wudrick, when he arrives. And I’m also wondering how Andrew Campbell’s summer is going. Those are two big bodies who could be on the radar soon.

  • variable

    chiming in a bit late on this one…but:

    QUISPY…

    agreed…on all points re: moller…

    DEADCAT…

    yes…it’s been obvious that AHL top 10 scorers over the years do not have NHL top 10 success very often or at all…

    great to see some familiar names on those lists that had moderate to some NHL success…

    i never realized how much of a scorer bruce boudreau was during his days…(?)

    thanks for the post and making yr point…

    as far as the on-going, never-ending “greatest” player ever debate…

    IMO…in all sports… it’s relatively impossible to compare the greatness and impact of any group of generational players…having said that…howe, gretzky, orr and mario are all the same league in terms of the phrase “in a league of their own” – each player has played to a certain non-comparable level regarding, at least, one of their skills…

    on any given day…at any given time…the figures upon the mt. rushmore of hockey can each stand alone and claim that they are the greatest ever…that’s why they are there…

    and because they were each able to consistently be called the “greatest” ever during their time, it would impossible and less than reasonable to not believe that on any given day: howe, gretzky, orr and mario were each king of the castle, lord of thy manor…

    so maybe we can ceremoniously rotate these legends on a daily/weekly/monthly basis as to who gets to wear “the greatest ever” title…i have no problem with that, because they are all great…

    in basketball…you can argue jordan…you can argue oscar…you can argue wilt…you can argue magic (my pick)…and each argument can have merit and state its case very convincingly….it baseball and football, because of the variety of position, it’s a bit more more segregated to individual tasks (IE: pitcher vs. hitter, quarterback vs. linebacker, etc.)…but the usual names always seem to rise in the pie…

    for me, in hockey…i always go back and forth between the mt. rushmore figures…sometimes it’s orr…sometimes it’s gretzky…etc…

    but it’s all moot/important…relevant/non-…they are all great…enjoy the memories…

  • khanon81

    Quisp said:

    “the Kings record will be better than the Ducks record, as a franchise, from this day forward.”

    I hope the Kings would do better than the Stanley Cup Ducks from now on, but we just cannot be certain. Yes, the Kings do have a decent core of young players, but personally, I think the Ducks have a really nice young core as well. In fact, I would take Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan over the Kings’ core, which obviously includes the likes of Kopitar, Brown, JW, and Fro. I’m not too fond of Kopi after watching Getzlaf the past few years. Kopi is definitely going to be a solid player, but the real question is, will he be able to perform in the playoffs when the opposing team will give him no room to operate and hits him every chance they get?

    I also think the Stanley Cup Duck blue line is very solid for years to come, even without Pronger and Niedermeyer because they still have Beachemin, Wisnewski, Brookbank, and Ryan Whitney.

    Like I have consistently stated, only time will tell…

  • Cricket

    @ Variable,

    Doughty may not be the generational talent up there with Orr and Howe, but…maybe he will.

    I’m thinking what he showed at his age, and what the words are after his worlds and the prospect of him already playing in the olympics, he seems like he could be one of the rare players simply that much better than everyone around him. Ovie and Sidney are the best players in the league today, but they’re not, at least yet, out of this world better than everyone else. They’re simply just he best. But Doughty, I swear there’s a chance he might be one of the hockey geniuses we rarely see.

    Anyway, I know I’m not really addressing what you said, but a generational players show up here and there, and I think Doughty could be the next.

  • Quisp

    No, of course, nothing is certain. And as far as the players you mentioned, you’ll get no argument from me regarding Getzlaf, Ryan or even Perry (I say “even” Perry because he appears to be generally despised by fans of opposing teams — but I think that’s the kind of hate that would disappear in a second if he were, for example, a King).

    Ryan is a thing of beauty. The Ducks lucked out with that 2005 draft lottery.

    As far as Getzlaf v. Kopitar — well, to be fair, Getzlaf is a couple of seasons ahead of Kopitar, and I think people (myself included) forget that Kopitar is 21. That said, I have not been Kopitar’s biggest fan; not that I’m against him; but I do think that people cut him way too much slack this season with the “he’s learning a new defensive system” excuse. (for example, Frolov was also learning a new defensive system, and consistently skated against tougher opponents than Kopitar — per qualcomp stats — and his numbers didn’t take the hit Kopitar’s did. I do think — in the same way you can blame Marleau and Thornton for the Sharks’ crap out in the first round — you can lay the blame for not making the playoffs this season at the feet of Brown and Kopitar, who, if they had performed up to their potential, we would have been, like Anaheim, STL, Minnesota, Edmonton, etc., if not in the playoffs then at least we would have been in the mix right up until the end.

    The counter argument would be either (a) it’s all TM’s fault for messing with the system or the lines (the Anthony argument; and I’m not saying it’s not true, just that it’s his argument), or (b) we made strides and are ahead of schedule (the DL argument). Of course, DL, in his interview with Rich, was openly critical of Kopitar’s conditioning and of Brown and Kopitar’s “we need a left wing” comments, and I have to say I had the same reaction as DL did, which was: “WTF, you’re the leaders. Step it up.” Thorton is in hot water in SJ for a similar comment, where he deflected criticism of his leadership by saying “it’s Marleau’s team.” He just had to field pointed questions on that topic at the Sharks open fan forum (or whatever they call it).

    I have no (or little) doubt that Kopitar and Brown will have better seasons next year. They’re kids, too. But they’re kids who are supposed to be leaders. So…lead!

    As far as the ducks being solid for years to come: they have a lot of things to work out this summer (see the many articles on this topic). They might lose Beachemin in addition to SNeidermeyer and/or Pronger. And there’s issues re Marchant as well, and I forget who else. Selanne, obviously. Lots of change in the air.

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