A positive note

This is the reason you want a character guy like Army on your team. DL needs to sign him

DL...please sign Army. He may only play in a handful of games, but a veteren like him is invaluable.

Hate to sound sensitive here, but I agree with Kozak and mrbrett7.
He's a good roll player and could still be useful.

Loved the post, Rich. Can't wait until we get to see some quotes from Lombardi on his own personal Lindros situation

As much as I've bagged on Army's play, I have to admit that along with O'Donnell and Greene he is the King I would most like to have a beer with. I thought it said alot that he never complained last season when he was a healthy scratch and that he brought energy to the whole table tennis thing. It's also weird to think that he may be the current longest tenured King on the roster. Thanks for the post Rich. It's nice to read that character and integrity in the sports world exists beyond a paycheck. Army has my respect. I hope the Kings re-sign him now even if it's as a spare forward so he can make the playoofs with them after all of these years.

Ok, I'll play party pooper. Hire Army as a coach. Don't waste a roster spot on him. He can't play anymore. I'm not sure he'd start in the AHL. But he is a great character role model, so offer him a job as a coach.

also...it would be bucking the trend for an organization to agree that a classy, loyal and still productive member of their team gets to stay and retire in the colors of the uniform in which he bleeds...

i've met army a few times...i was fortunate enough to win his game-worn jersey on fan appreciation night in '08...he is a player that i've always rooted for as he was coming up through the minors...so it would come as no surprise that i'm rooting for him again in hopes he gets rewarded in some equitable capacity for all the yeoman work he has done on and off the ice...

from what i understand, army has professed about playing for a few more years...i think he still can contribute the 5-10 mins per needed on a fourth line...everybody knows what to expect w/army and that usually means a lot of positives...that's not the issue...

what is the issue is the progress of the bevvy of young centers vs. army's assets...and how much younger do (can) the kings want to be at certain positions...?

with the current makeup of this team, a player of army's pedigree is essential, if not, vital...every good playoff contender has a player like army on their team...draper and boucher would be good examples of current veteran players who are providing their respective cup final's teams with leadership and spot duty...i can see army fulfilling this role very well come next season as the kings look to be still be playing at this same time, next year...

nice DAP in regards to army's character...
whether d.l. and the kings see army as a fourth line center, a minor league injury call up or possibly an assistant coach (?) remains to be seen...

but what is abundantly clear to all is that derek armstrong is a valuable human being...and that's something that makes decisions like this one that much more emotional...

besides...i hear ping pong is making a big comeback...

have you've seen biba golic...?

http://nbnl.globalwhelming.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/biba-golic.jpg

...maybe army is on to something good...(!)...

I have to chime in on every Armstrong thread. I can't help it. I love the guy. Par for the course with this young man, he has been a class act from the day he arrived. Not surprising in the least.

Agreed Irish Pat, I too would select him first to partake in a few rounds. I would even buy.

I'm hoping they resign him. I'm wishing he will be around for a playoff run.

Love Army, but his time is up as a LA King. The kings are not going to get better with him in the lineup. Sorry guys. Same goes for Harrold.

Character like this should be recognized and rewarded. Even if he is not signed as a player I would love to see him given a position within the Kings organization. Fans like him, players like him and he seems to be a great motivator who has the respect of his teammates. I think he might a decent assistant coach some day.

Hmmmm....I'm on the fence. I love Army, he's a great guy; as are all the Kings playes. Great guys. Dean and Murray are the boneheads! But as for Army getting resigned...I can't agree with him getting resigned. I'm a stats guy, Army doesn't provide the stats that wins championships...Sorry Army

I'm sure Army is a great guy, but he is a terrible hockey player at this point in his career. I'm all for him being an assistant coach one day, but it's time to move on.

WWAMD...what were Kris Draper's stats last year/this year?

So sorry to bring reality into your statistical argument...it holds no water whatsoever.

I say sign him as a part time guy/healthy scratch. He sticks up for his team and plays hard, and I really dont think he is that much of a liability out there...... If there isnt a spot at center, I am sure he has enough experience to fill in on either of the wings if need be.

Mrbrett,
I see where you are going, and I want to agree, but Draper is one of the best face-off guys in the league, that is one area where he earns his $$$.

i'll try to make this short. A couple years ago when the kings visited the panthers ( i believe we won 7-1) i had seats right beside the bench and i learned alot about the kings players that year. Sean Avery stuck his tongue out at my wife (i have a pic) Rob Blake wouldnt even look at us and the only ones that talked to us were Kopitar and Army. Army came out and looked right at us and said "Alright there they are" needless to say after watching the kings for 20 years i was extremely disappointed i didnt get more of a response. But thank you Army for recognizing us and showing your true colors. I hope your back next season!

What a day! Rich has split the opinions of the Trinity with this one!

The problem with Army is that he hates so much to be a healthy scratch that it may be devisive during the course of the season. It's one thing if you are a healthy scratch on the Detroit Red Wings, about to win another Stanley Cup. It's another to play the whole season with a 'maybe' team, maybe win a few games, maybe not be an embarrasement of a team, maybe make the playoffs, maybe play important games in February. The quality of the organization reflects on the team's individuals.

Ironically, if the Kings were a better team it would be easier to find a spot for the kind of quality man Armstrong is. On a marginal team, choices in favor of character are difficult when the overall pool talent is marginal.

I don't think Armstrong was very happy from the start of the season, spending all that time as a healthy scratch.

His was the first name that popped into my head.

@BakoCAcameraGuy

Sign #256 that the apocalypse is coming upon us: The Trinity agree on an issue that doesn't involve: (1) hate towards Deano, (2) a POS lovefest, or (3) ill-regard for the contributions and legacy of Kris Kontos (had to throw that in there)

Army's the ONLY UFA that I want to see back on the roster. Heck, if he wants to take over as a part time coach, let him. He's always welcome here at Staples.

WWAMD Stats? Watch the hockey games...you'll learn a lot more about the game and what it takes to win than sticking your nose in the stat book.
2 perfect examples on this team are Simmonds and Army.
Both guys come to play every shift, every night.
Army's the ultimate team guy. I hope he's one of the guys on the Kings carrying the cup next June.

I'd like to see the quotes from Dean that I thought you were going to post.

Shakes--

No matter where Ya go, there Ya are...
But, you forgot about the DL/Flyers conspiracy...

nykingfan

nope I don't watch hockey games!

comparing Army and Simmonds is kinda ridiculous. This was Simmonds rookie season and he's played better "statistically" then Army's last 2 seasons.

Simmonds does have a lot of energy and gives it his all...Thats great...I never mentioned getting rid of Simmer

Army....sure he may give it his all...but his all is not NHL caliber player. Derek is a nice guys, but the Kings aren't a charity where nice guys can come play. Plain and simple...Army is not talented enough. HE IS TALENTED, it takes a lot of skill to reach that level of the NHL and CONGRATS to Army...however, the NHL is competitive and I do not believe Army has the skill to keep up with the NHL level...plain and simple.

Army has value both on and off the ice, clearly weighted towards off the ice.

Nevertheless, while Army can't score to save his life (he doesn't need to so long as he is playing on the 4th line), he is not really a defensive liability and he is a feisty forechecker.

If he is signed, Murray won't bench him all that much unless Boyle or Lewis make it impossible for Murray not to play them. Hope that happens, but isn't a guarantee, so Army should be signed for another year at league minimum.

Army is good at eating up minutes while the skill players rest, but what he is best at, and is by far his most valuable contribution to the team on the ice is that he (along with Simmonds) is one of the only players that can be counted on to provide some energy when the Kings are getting hemmed in their own zone. When Brown plays like himself, he does this better, but he is also facing better defenseman so it can be tougher for him when the opponent is picking up momentum.

Army knows how to rally the troops.

I want Lewis to be the 4th line center, but Army can definately play wing, and as high as I am on Lewis, he doesn't necessarily have the veteran leadership to just make the simple play and throw some checks to get the team going. Even Simmonds, who is fantastic at this, has fully grasped the need to sometimes keep it simple when its getting poured on thick. Often times he will try too hard to generate a scoring chance on the first breakout after lots of pressure, instead of just putting it on net or dumping to the boards. He usually does it, but its in those panic and tough times that the veteran qualities of a player like Army are necessary.

I say let's bring him to camp and give him a shot. I believe he may be the best man for the 13th forward. He can play multiple positions on multiple lines. Playing only 20 games next season will not hurt his development. He understands that role and will not cause problems serving in it. He understands Terry's system and can help the rookies during practice. He is not a liability on D. He appears to be good in the locker room. The cost is right.
I am sure one lesson the rookies took away this year was the work ethic of the older players. I recall one game where Army was inserted into the line up just before the game. Fox said that Army skated hard for over an hour at an optional practice the day before and may have dead legs. And, I if I recall, the team was on the road. A coach or assistant coach can not teach that.
He at least deserves a shot, right?

JDM - I was not pinching your defensive liability point. My post took over an hour to complete. So, let’s just say I agree with you 100%.

Another little nice story about Army:

Before the second Kings v Blackhawks game in Chicago this year, the 20 Kings fans in attendance were of course down by the glass watching the warm-up. Three fans were wearing Kings' jerseys and "fat" Elvis (you know, The King) wigs, lamb-chop sideburns and sunglasses, pounding on the glass, beers in hand, cheering the whole time. As if to say, "Well done boys", good old Army reaches down, picks up a puck, and tosses it to them.

The Armstrong situation is interesting. On the one hand, we know both Murray and DL recognize the need for veteran leadership, and Army fills that role. With Calder, Preissing and Gauthier extremely likely to be departing, this would leave basically Handzus, Stoll, SOD and Greene as the wily vets. I don't think any of those guys is energizing the way Army is or is supposed to be.

None of the discussed high-end UFAs (Hossa, Havlat, Gaborik) seem like the talkative leader in the room type to me (although I know nothing about it; maybe that's just some kind of anti-Euro prejudice I didn't know I had). And if DL spends to get one of those guys, there wouldn't be room to sign any other UFA vet leader, I don't think.

Ideally, what's needed is an Ian Lapperiere type. Like maybe Lappy himself. That would fill the veteran leadership void. And we know he can talk it up. No idea if he's affordable, but he's certainly more costly than Army.

The other hand (since I started with "on the one hand") is that there are a lot of prospects coming up and a lot will depend on what they look like when they show up in September. It's not just Lewis, Purcell, Moller and Boyle. It's Clune, Cliche, Parse, Moulson, Wudrick, King, Loktionov, Azevedo -- Kane/MPS/Schenn (??). There's a logjam.

On the other-other hand, I don't think DL is going to want to keep a prospect up with the big squad, just to make him a healthy scratch every night. So in that sense, maybe they keep Army -- as someone said -- just for that purpose.

The other thing they might do is sign him and send him to Manchester, to see if he clears waivers. If he does, he could be the Klemm vet-type down there. Kind of a player-coach role (and Klemm is an asst coach in Spokane now, so there's a precedent). I'm not saying literally "player-coach," just, you know, "wise old dude."

Just like last summer, we're all hoping for the prospects to come through. If they do, there's probably no room for Army. But I'm with everyone else, I think he seems like a truly good guy.

I'd like to see that picture of Avery sticking his tongue out.

The other thing I meant to mention is, if DL signs Army, that's another contract against the roster limit. There's already going to be some people let go, if our count on the previous post is correct. It's not just "lets sign Army and play him instead of prospect x." Signing him means some prospect gets let go at the bottom of the list. That may not be a big deal. But by my count, it's a real consideration.

I have to agree that signing Army is good for the team. He's not going to put up a lot of points but this team will soon have more talent, we have to keep the heart.

Would he accept a two-way contract, Rich?

my $.02...

you can't mention stats and player development when discussing army. i tossed him to the hounds before last season. he definitely does not impress on the ice. where he impresses is off the ice - in the locker room and on the practice rink. he is the real deal. he totally gives of himself for the team and city. my apologies derek.

quisp is 100% correct on him impacting us signing one of our young (unproven) studs to a minor-league deal. but many others are correct that his leadership is crucial especially if all the other "old" guys, with just a couple of exceptions will be gone after july 1. as much as it pains me, i think he should be resigned to a one-year deal, down around $500K. with the long-term focus getting him into coaching. i think he would be great with the rookie development camp kids.

since we all know that 3rd and 4th line forwards are essentially a dime a dozen, my heart will not break if we lose a prospect in order to keep someone like army around for at least one more year. damn, he deserves a chance to grow a playoff beard for god's sakes!!!

Quisp?

If you used your first hand and your second, what is "the other hand"? ;) just kidding..

I like Army, as all you other guys do. But his use on the ice is limited. He played 2nd line center a couple of times, but didn´t make it. Then he fell down to a 4th line role, which he now isn´t good at either.

Maybe we could resign him as a reserve, if someone gets injured or any prospect (Lewis, Boyle) is not ready.

But I seriously doubt that he will play for us next season...sorry

Anyone...

Name a center, in our system, Manchester, in the NHL, in Junior's, anywhere, who has PROVEN, they are better than Army at what he does.

Next...

mrbrett...Stoll.

Unfortunately we can't have our cake and eat it too. While we all so passionately discuss how to get our team back into playoff contention, we find ourselves having a hard time letting go of a fan favorite. We all know the hard truth that his time on the ice has come. But to keep him on the roster for the sake of his off ice presence would not be the most prudent move when trying to move forward as an organization. I agree that his personality is needed, but not as a player. I say offer him a role with the coaching and development staff. Otherwise, he just doesn't fit anymore. Sad but true...

High...larious TB...Stoll isn't a 4th line center on any team in the NHL save for Detroit, and even there, he wouldn't be.

NOT having players like Armstrong is what will keep the Kings OUT of the playoffs. Character is needed in the NHL, and without it, your the Kings.

Next.

Armstrong is an insurance policy. last year none of the rookies stepped in and took the 4th center position full time. as of right now it is questionable whether the candidates (boyle, lewis, etc) for the 4th center will be able to secure the spot for the full season. these rookies will be given every change to win the position, and i imagine one of them will start the season up with the kings. but 15 or 20 games into the season how will that rookie be performing. you keep armstrong around because you don't know if the rookie will struggle or will be sent back down to the AHL to work on things like boyle did last year.

and if the rookie is able to fill the 4th center position what happens if kopitar, zeus or stoll goes down with an injury? without armstrong on the team, it means 2 rookie centermen will be on the team. i don't think DL or murray will want to put 2 rookie centermen or the kings in that position.

i think armstrong gets a 1 year deal, minimum salary. and us kings fans pray that one of these kids can step up and prove they are nhl quality.

Oops...just realized the way I worded my comment/question.

It should have read name another player in the system, etc., who could play the 4th line, and is proven as an NHL player.

Like it or not, Armstrong has proven over and over again he can play in the NHL. He shouldn't be centering a top line or 2nd line by any stretch, but a 4th line is perfectly suited for him.

WWAMD

He may no longer have the skill of others, but nobody's asking him to do it on an every night basis. He's the perfect guy to play only when needed. If someone gets hurt, he can fill in on a temporary basis. When the team is playing lethargic for any length of time, he's the perfect guy to put in for the energy he brings to each shift. Teams feed off of players who play with energy and passion.
The comparison of Simmonds and Army had nothing to do with goals/assists. Simmonds didn't produce as much as other rookies around the league...but how many rookies can you find that were more valuable than he was to the Kings?
Army's production isn't in his totals...its what he brings to the locker room and what he can do to help the team when he's in the lineup.
I'll use another rookie...but compare Boyle's time on the 4th line to Army's time on the 4th line....who did more for their team when they were in the lineup?
How many times did Boyle take shifts off as compared to Army?...its not even close.

Quisp
Obviously someone would have to get bumped from the roster if he was re-signed...but not everyone on that roster will come close to sniffing the NHL in their careers. The pipeline of talent is getting there, but its nowhere near the point of worrying about whether we can sign players or keep 1 or 2 guys.
Its up to scouts and Kings management to figure out which guys are the prospects and which guys will fill out the Ontario roster....Army's a proven NHL player.

mbrett...correction, I never said Stoll was a 4th liner. You asked if anyone did what Army does better. Stoll and Army are very similiar in their style, but not in their skill.

If Army were younger, he wouldn't be suited for the 4th line either. Remember his bread and butter during his better years was as a 3rd line center. Now Stoll is an upgrade in that comparison.

The fact that he was able to skate on the 4th line from time to time this season was a compliment to his character, no doubt. But his skill set and style aren't meant for 5 mins a game of nothing more than putting the puck in the corners. He was definsively skilled and even saw time on the PK during his hayday. My point is, the defined role of a 4th line player is better suited for the new guys coming up (limited ice time, and certainly not during important times.) So since the direction of the team is commited to developing the youth, its unfortunately where Army's time runs short. Its his roster spot thats needed to teach the young guys.

If you argue that we have had a lot of young players taking up the top 6 and I'm wrong about them belonging on the 4th line, its because the Kings depth chart was so bad, we had to put the young guys up there. Detroit for example, makes a point of it to develop all their rookies and sophmores on the bottom. Datsyuk even played 4th line minutes his rookie year.

So when asking if Derek Armstrong has a place on this team, the answer is no because we have Stoll. See...I think Boyle gets another shot (where he belongs, on the 4th line), and its Army's roster spot that will make room.

If you still disagree, I hope I at least made you laugh more.

Read my 2nd post about my own mistake.

BUT...the Kings are no Detroit. Detroit has their rookies and kids play 4th line minutes because they have no other choice! Their 6 and even top 9 is loaded...where else are those kids going to play? Think about it.

re: 2nd post (Draper)...Stoll is our faceoff guy right?

...hence my point. We are slowly transitioning into being in a similar position. I'm not saying we're like Detroit, but the depth chart is growing. Keeping army, restricts the process. Our cycle of development is accelerated compared to Detroit because their core is in place. But for what Army's worth, we can fill the spot with a more talented, and more capable youngster. Just a few days ago we were all bantering over the Boyle do we or don't we keep him talk...There are a few guys on the bubble and Army is the oldest with the least to offer. Its not about his character or value off the ice, its about filling the roster with a team that will win.

Nice guys finish last...Armstrong has helped this team do that too often. It's time to move on and make room for players with major league talent and upside. You'd never see Army on the Wings, why should we make the same mistakes year after year.

Armstrong fit the financial needs of this team that's why he was here but we are at a point where spending money on the right players is pertinent to turning the corner and finally making the playoffs.

Army can hang out with the guys after games and at practices like the rest of us nice guys would love to do.

Time has run its course and his fantasy camp should finally be over.

Rich, I have to agree with the comment ". At a time when some players, with stronger contractual ties, seem to be shopping their wares oversees, a move like this says a lot about Armstrong's character." Character has always been a issue with the Kings and we have no history of our own. All our geat players have had success prior to coming to the Kings (Dionne, Vachon, Gretsky) or after they have left (Goring, Blake, Robitaille).
Army is a great example of Character and committment to the LA Kings. And Some of the Young Kings should take a lesson from Him.

Regarding Jerk Johnson (hind sight is always 20/20)Would we have been better off with Tim Gleason?
It seems Jerk and his padre, are more interested in the name on the Back of the sweater than one on the Front. Jerk enjoy your time in Russia.

What would jerk and our #5 pick bring us in return?