A first look at…Williams

By a fairly significant margin, you selected Justin Williams as the Kings’ first-line right wing.

Since the beginning of this blog, perhaps no single incident sparked more discussion than the O’Sullivan/Williams trade (although Juraj Mikus is getting close). That’s two-pronged. One, O’Sullivan seemed to be a polarizing figure for fans and two, the trade was arguably the most significant in Dean Lombardi’s tenure, as he traded one potential top-six winger for another.

It’s not a stretch to say that Williams is the single most important player to the Kings’ success or failure this season, based on one simple evaluation. What was the Kings’ biggest problem last season? Scoring goals. If Williams does end up being the first-line right wing — and I think that’s a good assumption — who is he going to be? Will he be the two-time 30-goal scorer, or the guy who played a combined 81 games in the past two seasons? If it’s the former, the playoffs start to seem much more realistic.

By all accounts, Williams is healthy and ready to go. Those looking for another point of optimism can look at Michal Handzus, who was mostly dreadful in 2007-08, his first year back after ACL surgery, then mostly fantastic in 2008-09. Players typically take a big step forward in their second season back after ACL surgery, and Williams will be in that position this coming season.

What do you think? Will Williams be the answer to the Kings’ offensive woes?

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  • Paul from Oxnard

    I think Williams better be that 30 goal scorer or he’ll be helping Deano pack his bags as they both head out the door – And I think he WILL be that 30 goal scorer! Guys like Dean Lombardi don’t take fliers on guys they consider top talent (no, I’m not talking about retreads like Cloutier, McCauley, etc…) unless they’re pretty sure it’s going to work out in their favor.

    Bottom line is would I rather have O’Sullivan going into this season or Williams? I’d rather have Williams. He’s a proven producer in this league. O’Sullivan is not.

  • s2

    Williams is leaking more oil than the first Zamboni purchased for the Fabulous Forum!

  • PaulCat1969

    He doesn’t even have to be the answer for me to be satisfied. If he can score 20 – 30 goals, be a polarizing figure in the locker room, show other players like Brown and Simmonds what it takes to score gritty goal and play a tough style of hockey and not be afraid to go the to the net this will go down as a very successful trade for the Kings.

  • MrMach5

    I dont think Williams is “the answer”, but I do think hes part of the answer. It will be nice for Kopi and Fro to have someone to set up and to help out on the 1st line.

    But what Im looking forward to and cant wait for is some Brown and Smyth 2nd line action.

    IMHO I think this will be a way bigger factor and more of the answer we are looking for than just Williams alone.

    Strong, ballsy & physical scoring will give us the shot in the arm we need to change this team around.

    Just my $.02

  • JPUCK

    Rich, thank you for recognizing the importance of Williams’ success this season. I believe it will be absolutely imperative for team chemistry that he does well. Nobody will have faith in DL if Williams duds out. We need the Williams of old.

    FUN FACT:
    John Tavares lists Patrick O’sullivan as one of his top 3 favorite players.

  • Quisp

    he needs to score 25 goals and play more than 70 games. He doesn’t have to be THE answer. Mikus is THE answer.

  • NOT IMPRESSED

    If Williams is not the answer then that means Anthonyy was right and the rest of you guys will have to admit it. Of course some of you would rather commit suicide then do that.

  • Mike in Oregon

    I think Williams will be great. Take Sully’s time with Kings; he scored 41 goals and 68 assists. Williams, in same time with Carolina 69 goals and 92 assists. Williams does seem to be one of those injury prone players and I agree is probably the biggest wild card this year. I won’t be at all surprised if he gets all the microscopic attention and somebody totally unexpected (i.e. Moller, Simmonds, Purcell et al) breaks out big instead. Can’t wait. I don’t think the Williams trade will have any bearing on DL firing. O’Sullivan was not that important a player and a major disappointment. He’s like a one of those restaurant locations every town has that nothing succeeds in. He’s a choker, and bad chemistry.

  • TB

    Hooray Mikus!

    What I do love about Williams is the Stanley cup experience. i.e. knowing what it takes. Along with Smyth and Scuderi, I feel his greatest asset is in how he will be able to provide guidance to the younger guys heading into the latter part of the season.

    I’m not too worried about his offensive production. For him its just about being healthy. He’s a natural scorer. If he is 100% healthy, the goals will come.

    And I’m sure I’m not the only one keeping in mind the ‘bet’ that Anthonyy made about O’sullivan scoring more points than Williams this season. Come on JW!!!!

  • nykingfan

    He’s a big part of what we need to accomplish our goals. He can’t be the player he qwas the last couple of years….He’s too important to the team. If he plays 80 games and produces the way he’s capable of…He’s one of the better top 6 forwards in the league.
    Sully wasn’t and isn’t a top 6 forward on any team. He showed last year with Edmonton that he can’t be counted on in clutch situations to help his team reach the playoffs. He did nothing for them down the stretch.
    There’s no way that DL’s future hangs with Williams.
    If Williams stays healthy, he’s 10x the player Sully will ever be.

  • Otto Ped

    Will Williams be the answer to the Kings’ offensive woes?

    If he outscores O’sullivan and Anthonny keeps his word, Williams would be the answer to all of our woes

  • s2

    Mike in Oregon-

    Where did you find stats like that for Williams? Sorry, but the cited stats are WAY wrong. Since Sully’s first season in the NHL (2006-2007) he’s had 43 goals and 72 helpers for 115 points (not counting 18 total points in the playoffs, which Sully was not in). In the same time frame, Williams had 46 goals and 65 assists for 111 points.

    Oh well, you were only off by 23 goals and 27 assists, or 50 points!

  • Naturallawyer

    Tough to say who has more pressure to succeed, JW or Kopitar. But with Frolov in a contract year, if the three of them make up the first line, they know they HAVE to score goals. JW has to vindicate DL for his (great) faith in him, Kopi has to prove he is an NHL #1 center, and whether Frolov ultimately wants to be here or not, his bank account rides on this season. It’s a big year for those three. I expect them to succeed as a group, but it’ll get ugly if they fail (you’ll see a lot of frustration and the side effects of that).

    That said, if the expected second line is Smyth-Stoll-Brown, we have a decent second line to pick up some of the offensive burden.

  • anthonyy

    Wiiliams averagd only 1 goal in 11 games. PATHETIC.
    And while he was on the Kings roster, he only scored one goal while playing on a line with Frolov and Kopitar. PATHETIC.
    That one goal was against the hapless coyotes on a 5 on 3 power-play, when Kopitar kept on setting him up for a one-timer. PATHETIC.
    He also played plenty of minutes on the power-play, and only mustered 2 points. PATHETIC.
    I’ve noticed that he plays like a slow overweight player. No speed. No spark. No creativity. No smarts. No Nothing.
    But he’s a former Flyer property, so DL’s meager brain says that’s OK.

    If he scores more goals, NOT POINTS, I’m histoty. I’ll reiterate that. But it won’t happen. The guy plays like a figure skater.

    You guys need to stop worshiping the ground this guy walks on. He’s not worth it.

  • mike

    O’sullivan will be on a new team during this season i believe his time in edmonton is over and he’s looking to be a guy who jumps from team to team.

  • stang

    Williams is a bust…here’s why:

    Williams only scored 30+ goals twice in his 8 year career…that is good for an average of 25%. How is that a true 30+ goal scorer?! A true 30+ goal scorer does it atleast 50% of the time. Plus, he had to play all 82 games to do it both times. What happens when he gets hurt? He never gets close to 30+ goals. Look up his highlights on Youtube…do you see anything other than an empty netter in the SC Finals?! Yeah, that’s some character goal for you!

    The other thing you need to remember about this guy is he was traded by Philly and Carolina when they wanted to upgrade their team! What does that tell you? It tells you that he underachieves more often than not. Carolina traded him at the deadline during a SC playoff run. If Carolina can’t use him when they needed him most why would the Kings think he’s the “answer” to all our woes. DL screwed up this trade plain and simple especially adding a 2nd for a hurt guy of all things too. DL was in Philly when they traded Justin’s “character” to Carolina for someone with bigger balls and more “character”. Why didn’t DL go out on a limb at that time and tell his superiors to keep this guy if he was all that? If he tried they obviously never listened because they know he doesn’t have that “it” factor and he wasn’t the “answer” the Philly brass needed to get over the hump. Same goes with Carolina, when you get traded from a playoff team to a team that has no clue, you just found a perfect home for an underachiever.

    Williams is a north/west player. Not once did he go to the tough areas as advertised during the trade…he avoided it as if trying not to get injured again. You bang on O’Sullivan saying he never did this or that but you could leave a blank space in that sentence and fill it with anyone’s name on that Kings roster and it still would ring true with all of them.

    One day the Kings will regret this trade.

  • JT Snow

    I for one think we can have a great season even if Justin Williams tanks it, which I fully expect him to do.
    Our season depends on good consistent goaltending from day one… The solidification of our defence, including Terry Murray allowing Jack Johnson to develop into the player he can be…
    More scoring from our top four forwards. Brown, Kopitar, Smyth, Frolov (This also has a lot to do with Murray)
    A good defensive presense and a couple 20+ goalscorers in forwards 5-9.
    Not always dressing a fighter.
    Terry Murray using his head.

    If this does not happen, then our season is screwed.

  • variable

    if there was ever a player that has a clean slate…or is it the weight of the world…?…is the glass half full or is it half empty…?

    i think with jw, we will see relatively soon…maybe the first 25 games (to be fair either way)…to weigh an immediate opinion on him…

    i’ve been saying all along on jw…:
    high risk/high reward…

    and i agree with all the peeps who said that 25-30 and 65+ is expected of jw, especially if he plays on line 1/pp1…

    i’m still reserving any full judgments until then…

  • 28 KINGS

    At least your consistent Anthonny

    “You guys need to stop worshiping the ground this guy walks on. He’s not worth it.”

    The same can be said for your love affair with Sully…PATHETIC! What was O’Sullivan’s excuse for only scoring 2 goals in 19 games? It wasn’t like he was coming off an injury when he got traded.

  • Quisp

    I must have missed the part where Williams was supposed to be THE answer to anything. He’s a piece. Lombardi believes he has upgraded to a player who’s not afraid to play in the so-called blue-paint. Check out the Edmonton press/blogs sometime. There are plenty of posts and articles referencing the fact that the Oilers have too many forwards who, I believe the phrase was, “are small and skilled.” What are they looking for? Big forwards who crash the net? Sorta like that Smyth guy they traded away. Sorta like Justin Williams. Dustin Brown. See?

    There was also an article lately about how they wished they hadn’t traded away Greene and Stoll. They finally realized that every time you win an offensive zone face-off, it’s like a little 10 second power-play (and when you win one in your own zone, you are killing a penalty).

    Anyway, it’s obvious what Lombardi is doing. It’s not a secret, and he’s very consistent. If your favorite Kings player can’t wrap his head around playing sound defense, back-checking, etc., or seems to avoid the opponent’s crease, or takes nights off, don’t be surprised if that player gets dealt. Attn: Frolov.

    I expect Williams to net 25, and Frolov 35. They’d better.

  • jet

    JW is a much better defender than POS. The Kings make the playoffs if their GA is 200 or less. The key to the playoffs is a healthy defense and consistent goalie play. JW is a playoff player. Hopefully we get to see his true value this season.

    stang/cristobal — you logic is not strong. Carolina wanted to make a run in the playoffs. Cole was healthy, JW was not. They went with the immediate need.
    JW has played every game in two of the last 4 seasons. He scored over thirty goals when he played every game. He has been to the finals. He is 3 inches and 15 pounds bigger than POS. Is he an upgrade? Absolutely.

  • stang

    The thing about Justin Williams is Lombardi made him our top six 30 goal scorer. The bar has been set, anything less is unacceptable. DL trades 2 guys for him he better be everything he’s advertised and hit the back of the net as advertised.

    This trade will still bother me even if he scores 30+ goals but if he scores 40+ I can get over real quick.

  • Quisp

    stang –

    You’re negotiating with yourself.

    Which “two guys” would that be? Oh, right. The second round pick. That wasn’t the Kings pick to start with. That Lombardi acquired in trade.

    You say, “the bar has been set,” but then go on to say that the trade will still bother you if he scores 30+ goals. Then you go on to say that if he scores 40+, then it’s a good trade.

    You set the bar yourself, and you set it so high that you are guaranteed to be disappointed.

    You also say DL “made him our top six 30 goal scorer.” I don’t even know what this means. Here is the Kings’ top six:

    Frolov
    Kopitar
    Brown
    Williams
    Smyth
    Stoll

    Three of those guys (Fro, Ko, Bro) must score 30 goals this year, if you ask me. In fact, Fro and Ko need to get to 35. The other three (Williams, Smyth, Stoll) must score between 20 and 30 goals. Williams and Smyth need to get to 25. That’s a minimum of 170 goals. Detroit, by comparison, had one 40, three 30 and one 20 goal scorer(s) last year. Detroit. That’s 170 goals in total for its 20-40 goal scorers.

    I don’t see how Williams is the thirty goal scorer, when he’s basically expected to be at best the fourth highest scorer in the line-up, and if he scores merely 25, and everyone else does their jobs, the Kings will score as much as Detroit did with the now departed Hossa and Hudler.

  • BakoCAcameraGuy

    The one point within this conversation that has not been made is this:

    We are talking about TWO scoring lines this year. That is a huge improvement over the beginning of last year, and in hockey terms the splitting of defensive coverage between these two lines will have a huge effect. There will be more mis-matches, blown coverages and hopefully, more garbage goals for us instead of the opposing team.

    This point is completely seperate from the POS-Williams debate. Oh, and I agree with Anthonyy–it should be about goals, not points. POS<

    Hey, Anthonyy: A side bet. Will Edmonton outscore the Kings, 82 games, straight up?

  • nykingfan

    Bako

    Excellent point about having 2 scoring lines. It will be tough to defend against…especially if they’re getting the dirty goals. Nothing takes the heart out of a team more than getting beat down low for dirty goals.

    Agreeing with Anthonyy on points vs goals???
    Am I missing something here?

  • stang

    stang –

    You’re negotiating with yourself.

    ~Maybe I should negotiate Frolov’s deal instead.? LOL~

    Which “two guys” would that be? Oh, right. The second round pick. That wasn’t the Kings pick to start with. That Lombardi acquired in trade.

    ~Doesn’t matter how he acquired the pick Quisp, point is it was ours and he traded it and POS for a guy who was hurt and couldn’t help us in our late run for a playoff spot. When this trade went down and a lot of people were miffed DL came out and sold the fans on him being a character guy who’s a true proven 30+ goal scorer. I want to see it happen in a Kings uniform. Point is you never trade a healthy player and a good pick for a guy who’s hurt, I don’t care what the circumstances are that’s a bogus trade.~

    You say, “the bar has been set,” but then go on to say that the trade will still bother you if he scores 30+ goals. Then you go on to say that if he scores 40+, then it’s a good trade.

    ~I’m a big DL supporter but not on this trade because POS had a lot of upside for a young player. He didn’t have a major injury, he has great hands and vision, good skater, he was the best passer on the team, he played in all situations, he had chemistry with Kopitar and Brown before TM got here and the second rounder could’ve been another great asset so yeah, he better net 30+ and if he gets 40+ I’d be ecstatic about the trade and admit DL is a flippin hockey GOD but again…hurt guy, always battling injuries, barely 30+ goals twice in 8 year career equals a lot to give up for a guy with limited upside.~

    You set the bar yourself, and you set it so high that you are guaranteed to be disappointed.

    ~ I didn’t set the bar, Lombardi did. Lombardi called him a better player than POS, a proven 30+ goal guy well let’s see him do it here and now…if I remember clearly he was too hurt to do anything for us when we needed him most hope that’s not par for the course.~

    You also say DL “made him our top six 30 goal scorer.” I don’t even know what this means. Here is the Kings’ top six:

    ~ I don’t know how to break it down anymore than DL saying he will be a 30+ goal guy. Complain to DL about it, he’s the attorney, they may talk in circles but they sure don’t mince words.~

    Frolov
    Kopitar
    Brown
    Williams
    Smyth
    Stoll

    Three of those guys (Fro, Ko, Bro) must score 30 goals this year, if you ask me. In fact, Fro and Ko need to get to 35. The other three (Williams, Smyth, Stoll) must score between 20 and 30 goals. Williams and Smyth need to get to 25. That’s a minimum of 170 goals. Detroit, by comparison, had one 40, three 30 and one 20 goal scorer(s) last year. Detroit. That’s 170 goals in total for its 20-40 goal scorers.

    ~These predictions are obviously based on each guy playing 82 games apiece but 25 goals for Williams still isn’t enough not at the price he was had for. What really gets me though is why are you comparing us to Detroit? We aren’t even in the same conversation as they are. We haven’t made the playoffs for what 6 straight years and now you’re comparing our goal scorers to Detroits?! Seriously?! WOW!~

    I don’t see how Williams is the thirty goal scorer, when he’s basically expected to be at best the fourth highest scorer in the line-up, and if he scores merely 25, and everyone else does their jobs, the Kings will score as much as Detroit did with the now departed Hossa and Hudler.

    ~ That’s my point about Williams, I too don’t think he’s a 30+ goal scorer either, but we traded away some good assets like he is one…DL set the bar.

    And Detroit even without Hossa and Hudler still won’t get the Kings in the same conversation with Detroit. Talk about setting the bar pretty high there Quisp…you ready to be disappointed.?!

    Bottom line: I’d love to be wrong about Williams but his history tells me a different story about what to expect from him than what DL is selling. Williams is on the hot seat this season, DL pegged him a difference maker, let’s see him make a difference.

    Good day!

  • stang

    stang –

    You’re negotiating with yourself.

    ~Maybe I should negotiate Frolov’s deal instead.? LOL~

    Which “two guys” would that be? Oh, right. The second round pick. That wasn’t the Kings pick to start with. That Lombardi acquired in trade.

    ~Doesn’t matter how he acquired the pick Quisp, point is it was ours and he traded it and POS for a guy who was hurt and couldn’t help us in our late run for a playoff spot. When this trade went down and a lot of people were miffed DL came out and sold the fans on him being a character guy who’s a true proven 30+ goal scorer. I want to see it happen in a Kings uniform. Point is you never trade a healthy player and a good pick for a guy who’s hurt, I don’t care what the circumstances are that’s a bogus trade.~

    You say, “the bar has been set,” but then go on to say that the trade will still bother you if he scores 30+ goals. Then you go on to say that if he scores 40+, then it’s a good trade.

    ~I’m a big DL supporter but not on this trade because POS had a lot of upside for a young player. He didn’t have a major injury, he has great hands and vision, good skater, he was the best passer on the team, he played in all situations, he had chemistry with Kopitar and Brown before TM got here and the second rounder could’ve been another great asset so yeah, he better net 30+ and if he gets 40+ I’d be ecstatic about the trade and admit DL is a flippin hockey GOD but again…hurt guy, always battling injuries, barely 30+ goals twice in 8 year career equals a lot to give up for a guy with limited upside.~

    You set the bar yourself, and you set it so high that you are guaranteed to be disappointed.

    ~ I didn’t set the bar, Lombardi did. Lombardi called him a better player than POS, a proven 30+ goal guy well let’s see him do it here and now…if I remember clearly he was too hurt to do anything for us when we needed him most hope that’s not par for the course.~

    You also say DL “made him our top six 30 goal scorer.” I don’t even know what this means. Here is the Kings’ top six:

    ~ I don’t know how to break it down anymore than DL saying he will be a 30+ goal guy. Complain to DL about it, he’s the attorney, they may talk in circles but they sure don’t mince words.~

    Frolov
    Kopitar
    Brown
    Williams
    Smyth
    Stoll

    Three of those guys (Fro, Ko, Bro) must score 30 goals this year, if you ask me. In fact, Fro and Ko need to get to 35. The other three (Williams, Smyth, Stoll) must score between 20 and 30 goals. Williams and Smyth need to get to 25. That’s a minimum of 170 goals. Detroit, by comparison, had one 40, three 30 and one 20 goal scorer(s) last year. Detroit. That’s 170 goals in total for its 20-40 goal scorers.

    ~These predictions are obviously based on each guy playing 82 games apiece but 25 goals for Williams still isn’t enough not at the price he was had for. What really gets me though is why are you comparing us to Detroit? We aren’t even in the same conversation as they are. We haven’t made the playoffs for what 6 straight years and now you’re comparing our goal scorers to Detroits?! Seriously?! WOW!~

    I don’t see how Williams is the thirty goal scorer, when he’s basically expected to be at best the fourth highest scorer in the line-up, and if he scores merely 25, and everyone else does their jobs, the Kings will score as much as Detroit did with the now departed Hossa and Hudler.

    ~ That’s my point about Williams, I too don’t think he’s a 30+ goal scorer either, but we traded away some good assets like he is one…DL set the bar.

    And Detroit even without Hossa and Hudler still won’t get the Kings in the same conversation with Detroit. Talk about setting the bar pretty high there Quisp…you ready to be disappointed.?!

    Bottom line: I’d love to be wrong about Williams but his history tells me a different story about what to expect from him than what DL is selling. Williams is on the hot seat this season, DL pegged him a difference maker, let’s see him make a difference.

    Good day!

  • tantrum4

    wow I can’t believe you guys are still arguing over this trade and still responding to anthonny’s posts. I have a copy of a newspaper from last April if you guys want to re-read that old news too…..

  • JDM

    Stang,

    Have to disagree about POS being the best passer on the team. In my book (as long and useless as it is), Purcell is our best pure passer, with Kopitar a close second. I would put POS’ passing on par with Frolov’s, which is still pretty darn good (I think Frolov’s passing is underrated).

    But I do agree that DL set the bar for Williams’ as a 30 goal scorer. I think we can still make the playoffs, and Williams have a good year if he scores around 25, but 30+ is definately the goal and what our expectations for Williams should be going into the season.

    Honestly, so long as the team is scoring goals at a good click, I don’t care who scores them. I will judge Williams by his play on the ice and whether I feel he is helping the team score goals or hamstringing the team. If he scores 23, but is banging bodies, playing good D and overall is helping to generate offensive opportunities, and burying the puck when there is an empty net during a blue-paint scramble, then the trade will have been a success in my book.

    I really just want to see some good chemistry and I think we started to see that with Williams at the end of the season.

    I’m putting the goal total onus mostly on Frolov and Kopitar. They are the two who MUST get 30 goals, the rest, it would be nice, but if Brown, Stoll, Smyth and Williams all end up in the mid 20′s for goals, I won’t be complaining.

  • stang

    Not arguing with Quisp, he asked for clarification on my post I gave what he wanted.

    Now about that paper, do you still have the Calendar section? =)

  • Quisp

    Stang –

    “Doesn’t matter how he acquired the pick Quisp, point is it was ours and he traded it and POS for a guy who was hurt and couldn’t help us in our late run for a playoff spot.”

    It matters in the sense that it wasn’t our high 2nd round pick, but Calgary’s later 2nd round pick.

    “When this trade went down and a lot of people were miffed DL came out and sold the fans on him being a character guy who’s a true proven 30+ goal scorer.”

    But…that’s what he is.

    “Point is you never trade a healthy player and a good pick for a guy who’s hurt, I don’t care what the circumstances are that’s a bogus trade.”

    Really? Do you think we could have traded POS for a healthy 30-goal scorer in his twenties?

    “barely 30+ goals twice in 8 year career equals a lot to give up for a guy with limited upside.”

    Yes. Barely 30+ goals.

    “What really gets me though is why are you comparing us to Detroit? We aren’t even in the same conversation as they are. We haven’t made the playoffs for what 6 straight years and now you’re comparing our goal scorers to Detroits?! Seriously?! WOW!”

    Okay, first of all: [expletive deleted][derogatory remark deleted]. Let me speak slowly. You indicated DL said Williams is our “top six 30 goal scorer,” like he’s the only one. I said, Williams is not even in the top three scorers in the top six. I then went down the list of expected production for the top six. Not wishing or exaggerating, but projecting based on past performance. Then I pointed out that simply by reasonably projecting our top six scoring — with Williams fourth on the list — our 20+ goal scorers would have the same output as Detroit’s 20+ goal scorers did last season. I made this comparison not to say “we’re Detroit now” but to point out that if our top six does its job (again, with Williams being the fourth highest goal scorer), our top six will produce at a perfectly acceptable level. Because, see, if you were to counter that 25 goals is not good enough for Williams, I would have already argued that this level of production is good enough for Detroit, when Williams is seen in terms of his roll on the team, not in a vacuum.

    “And Detroit even without Hossa and Hudler still won’t get the Kings in the same conversation with Detroit. Talk about setting the bar pretty high there Quisp…you ready to be disappointed.?!

    Again, you are making logical leaps into the abyss. I didn’t set any bar. I merely stated the obvious, which is — again, speaking slowly — Kopitar is expected to score at least 35 goals, Frolov is expected to score 35, Brown 30, Williams and Smyth 25, and Stoll 20. Obviously, everyone will be disappointed if those players don’t produce those numbers, because that’s what they’re getting paid to do. The Detroit comparison is only to help you see what those numbers mean.

  • Quisp

    Time to revisit this poll: http://wp.me/stucv-poll

  • nykingfan

    You hit the nail on the head JDM
    It’s all about how Williams is playing. Goals are a product of what’s happening on the ice. If the LINE is playing well and generating scoring chances…I don’t care who’s getting the goals…Hockey is a collection of units of 5…its not an individual sport. Williams could be playing amazing hockey, but if his linemates aren’t doing anything, he’s not going to be scoring either.

  • 28 KINGS

    “Doesn’t matter how he acquired the pick Quisp, point is it was ours and he traded it and POS for a guy who was hurt and couldn’t help us in our late run for a playoff spot.”

    Stang,
    If Brian Dumoulin, who was taken in the draft with our former pick(51st overall)becomes the next Chris Pronger, then your point is valid. You acquire picks to use them in trades, which is what DL did to get the guy he wanted. The pick wasn’t even in play until the deal was leaked early and had to be added to complete the trade.

  • jet

    28 Kings — stang is one of cristobal’s personalities, and still not worth arguing with. His only mission is to try and make DL look like an idiot. He is able to accomplish this on other sites, but most of the posters here understand that we upgraded our top six significantly with this trade. I would bet that JW’s defense alone is worth 10 GA over POS for the next two years. Last year at this time cristobal was bashing DL on a daily basis for trying to completely rebuild the defence in one off season. He said the Kings couldn’t beat an AHL team. He also said the Flames came out way ahead on the Cammi deal.
    Just some perspective on who you are dealing with.

  • variable

    RE: POS…:

    career totals
    games: 207
    goals: 43
    assists: 72
    points: 115
    +/-: -20
    ppg: 7
    ppast: 21
    shot%: 7.5

    i have nothing against POS…never had…i only wish him the best and a long, successful nhl career…

    but…

    i don’t understand the fascination with him…

    we saw him for 2 1/2 seasons…he showed some great moves in open ice and was very good at shootouts…

    but that was it…

    sure, those moments…few and far between…displayed glimpses of possibilities, etc…
    but it was very, very clear…at least to me…that POS played a perimeter game and only stood out in outnumbered situations and breakaways…and even with those signature skills, POS was only able to manage 7 ppg’s in 207 games…he’s averaged just a shade over .25 goals a game for his career…and his 7.5 shot % is way below a scorer’s standards…

    forget about stats…if you want to talk about his play without the puck…hmmmm…what can you say POS did consistently positive…? not much…defensively…? uy, yuy, yuy…(!)…

    i don’t want to beat up on POS…i do think there’s some potential with him…but he was picked in the 3rd round by minny…and, up to this point in his career, that has proved to be a very accurate placement for him…he was – and still is – a project…

    could he be a 30 goal scorer…? maybe…
    could he be a 40 goal scorer…? doubtful…

    he has soooo much work to do in other areas for him to live up to the hype and projections many nhl managers have predicted…at 24, he’s still young enough to make the necessary improvements to elevate his game…but he’s running out of time…once you get to 25 or 26, yr already labeled a veteran and have all but sewn up yr identity among the league…i’m not saying that a player can’t still develop after 26…but the type of improvement POS still needs (grit, physicality, net determination, play w/out puck, etc…) are less likely to improve upon as he gets older because he’s be molded in his ways and has so many things to work on – not just one or two…

    we won’t be able to determine the success/failure of the trade until jw gives us something on the ice for at least half a season…but looking back at the deal and being able to let in set in for aprx. 6 months, POS was an unproven high risk/high reward project (previously acquired for pavol demitra, a high risk/high reward star) being dealt for a proven high risk/high reward player in jw…and i expect the results from the trade for each individual and team to follow course – feast or famine…

  • adam

    Variable said:
    “POS was an unproven high risk/high reward project……….. being dealt for a proven high risk/high reward player in jw.”

    Great post Variable! That sums up the trade right there. I never bought into the POS hype any way. It would drive me NUTS always watching him hide in the corner in the offensive zone only to step out and take an impossible angle shot off the glass, which always started the opposing team’s break out, or go behind the net to make a blind pass to the opposition in front of the net again resulting in a break out for the other team. That’s the kind of crap you learn NOT to do in pee wee hockey.

  • Quisp

    variable –

    agreed on all counts. POS might well be great in the future, but his future is not in any way certain. Will he be a 20 goal scorers for several seasons (i.e. consistently)? Prrrrrrobably. Will he be a 30-goal scorer? Maybe. Consistently? Maybe-minus. Better than that? Unlikely. Possible, but probably not, given the number of soft, skilled small-ish forwards who don’t make it.

    Williams has already done what POS might do or might not. And Williams has attributes that POS is not likely to learn. Because on the whole, players who are soft don’t just turn into players who are warriors. Compare to Moller, who is tough and a warrior, and this is obvious even though he is still in a boy’s body.

  • 28 KINGS

    Good points Quisp,unfortunately they will fall on deaf ears.

  • Krystoff

    Jet,

    you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about, mate.

    The Williams/POS/Frolov debate is comical.
    Why does Frolov have to score 35 goals, again, on a team that hasn’t come close to even sniffing the playoffs.
    Williams, if he’s all that, should be a 40 goal scorer, because he makes quite a bit more that Frolov. But, if you’ll put down the koolaid long enough to look at his stats, you’ll see that Williams was a supporting player on some pretty darn good teams when he broke the 30 barrier.
    As for O’Sullivan, the guy is a much more skilled player than Williams. Anytime you give up skill, I think you do yourself a disservice. But, it takes great coaching and leadership to bring the best out of a promising young player. I don’t know if we have that here. Maybe O’Sullivan will get it with Pat Quinn in Edmonton. He definitely has the tools to be a great player. Williams is a much more blue-collar player, though he does have some special skills (speed).
    I guess that if Terry Murray is going to be the coach for years, it makes more sense to get him the type of player he’s effective with.
    Williams is not cut from the same cloth as Melanby, however, a player that fit right in to Murray’s methods in Florida.

    Finally, the real key to scoring this season, will once again come from the back line.
    I don’t know how we’re improved in that department after trading away Quincey, but perhaps Murray will allow Johnson to go forward a bit more than last year because the only other effective defenseman in the offensive zone that I can count now is Doughty. I don’t know if Voinov can step right in and provide some help at moving the puck out of our end or around the offensive zone, but that is a big concern. Our lack of skill on the blue-line, if it is not addressed, may prevent us from making the playoffs yet again.

    The ‘Spockian’ predictions and demands of some comments, are illogical, which is weird and ironic.

    salut.

  • Quisp

    Krystoff -

    “Why does Frolov have to score 35 goals, again, on a team that hasn’t come close to even sniffing the playoffs.”,/i>

    He doesn’t have to do anything. He’s expected to. And I would say that “(coming) close to sniffing the playoffs” is exactly what the Kings did last year. By which I mean: last year, in it till March 1-ish, this year, better than that.

    “Williams, if he’s all that, should be a 40 goal scorer, because he makes quite a bit more that Frolov.

    However, in reality: this year Frolov makes $4MM, and Williams makes $3.5MM. Which, as you can see, is less. Oh, and Frolov is in a contract year, so he will be getting his $1-2MM raise.

    “But, if you’ll put down the koolaid long enough to look at his stats, you’ll see that Williams was a supporting player on some pretty darn good teams when he broke the 30 barrier.

    Chicken meet egg.

    “As for O’Sullivan, the guy is a much more skilled player than Williams. Anytime you give up skill, I think you do yourself a disservice.”

    Daigle, etc… The side of the road is littered with skill. Lauri Tukonen has skill.

    “Finally, the real key to scoring this season, will once again come from the back line.

    I agree with you there. That, and the ability to roll four lines.

    “I don’t know how we’re improved in that department after trading away Quincey, but perhaps Murray will allow Johnson to go forward a bit more than last year because the only other effective defenseman in the offensive zone that I can count now is Doughty.

    Scuderi replaces Quincey, but, as you imply, that leaves us with a hole on the power-play. This might be filled by Hickey, if he makes the team (we’ll know in a couple of weeks if that’s an unrealistic projection — as of now, not sure). I think Voynov is a year or two away.

    “The ‘Spockian’ predictions and demands of some comments, are illogical, which is weird and ironic.

    It’s not ironic since you are the one who called it “Spockian.” You manufactured your own irony.

    And, see if you can follow the logic of “Williams, if he’s a 30 goal scorer as advertised, should be able to score 40 goals, because he makes a lot more than Frolov, except for last year, this year, and every year hereafter.”

    Anyway, there’s nothing illogical about saying, “Kopitar is likely to score at least 35 goals, Frolov 35, Brown 30, Williams and Smyth 25, Stoll 20.” It’s based entirely on past performance. The word I would use is not “logical” but “reasonable.” There’s nothing unreasonable in those numbers.

    “The Williams/POS/Frolov debate is comical.

    There is no such debate.

  • variable

    KRYSTOFF…

    i don’t think you understand…not what’s being said (that’s debatable)…

    but you have clearly failed to fully read the response from several different posters on why POS and jw are really similar when it comes to skill…i don’t think one reasonable poster here has said that to the contrary…and i’m not going to repeat previous commentaries…
    scroll up, please…:)

    POS does have POTENTIALLY to be a regular 30/60 guy…but he has only got as far as 53 (22/31 in 07-08)…and he’s in no way guaranteed to be

    rather than pick you apart, sentence by sentence…quisp has politely done a nice job of that..i will say this…:

    jw HAS put up 2 consecutive 30/60 (67.76)…20 ppg during that same time…a stanley cup..not too much older…much more physical player than POS will ever, ever be…and has leadership and maturity that has already displayed during his young career (9 years…his low/mid-prime)

    of course we all know about the huge risk – his injuries…but i do think he’ll be alright because of the nature of some of the injuries…that’s the quid for the quo…yo…!

    i’m guessing that you really think that jw is a bum, has no heart, no history and the inability to comeback from less-than-career threatening injuries…

    and i guess i do…i think jw has got a lot more positives than negatives WHEN HEALTHY than POS has now and probably will have in the future…and that’s where you disagree…

    but…it has to be said again…

    that’s why nhl games are explained and decided by lil’ mem w/microphones in foreign electronic equipment…

  • variable

    “and i guess i do”…should be “i guess i don’t” think that jw is a bum…ftr…

  • Krystoff

    Vari-

    I don’t dislike Williams. I just believe his numbers may be inflated a bit. He’s a king now. I hope for the best.
    But, I liked OS and believe a good coach could get great things out of him.

  • jet

    Variable, Quisp — Krystoff is one of the monikers Cristobal (along with stang, by the way) uses to bash DL and TM. He uses different names to make it appear the real Kings fans are turning on DL. In addition, he never addresses the real issue. JW is twice the defender as POS and his style is a much better fit for what the Kings want to do. JW will also increase the goal totals of others on his line. There is no comparison. Finally, if POS starts off like he finished he will be with his 4th organization before turning 25. I can’t think of a bigger red flag and coming from actual hockey people, not some bitter blogger who has the time to post under a dozen different names to make himself feel important.