Toronto fans, still not over it

I generally admire passionate fans, but Maple Leaf fans can be whiny crybabies. Boo-hoo, Doug Gilmour got clipped in the face and the ref missed it. Yeah, that's where the series was lost. It sucks just like how Marty's stick in the finals had an illegal whip on it. Get over it. Things may have turned out different if 99 went to the box, but for crying out loud let it go. It was a great series... 16 years ago.

If Toronto ever wins the Cup I have a feeling they'll never shut up about it and their fans will be just as annoying as Yankee and Red Sox fans. Yes, the universe revolves around your team... sheesh.

Okay, I'm done ranting.

Nice dive by Gilmour too. See how fast he popped up after the whistle.

Can't really blame them too much, that was the last time that either of these teams were truly great. Most of us have forgotten or long past the McSorely stick incident, but bring up 1993 and it is mentioned at the drop of a hat. Same as this incident with Leaf fans. It is the ultimate "what could have been" moment for their fanbase as the McSorely incident with us. It doesn't help, like I said, that neither team has been in real contention since.

it was probably one of the few times...if not the only time...in kings playoff history that a bad call went our way favorably...

to the toronto fans still sulking on this one...two things...:

1. look at the calendar and/or yr watch...please realize that the current year in 2009...

2. look at yr current roster...and it's then you should realize that you should be crying over more important, current matters than something that took place during another era...

...and if that's not enough...

here's a bonus thing for toronto fans to be crying about...:

3. brian burke...

want a fourth...?...ok...

4. jim balsillie...

but that's enough for today...

I live in Sweden and I once met a Canadian dude. Since he was Canadian we started talking hockey and he was from Ontario and was a Maple Leafs fan. When I mentioned I was a Kings fan the first thing out of his mouth was "F Kerry Frasier!".

So funny.

Funny how no one remembers an incident from the exact same game that was also missed....Doug Gilmour's head-but on McSorely right in front of the ref after a whistle...what comes around, goes around Leafs fans!!

All I can tell you is that when I took my family to Toronto a few years back and sported the Kings jersey, I got more than a few dirty looks. I went to the Air Canada Centre to the store there with it on and struck up a conversation with the manager. Great guy. The jersey got me a private tour of the arena! He was at least cool, but he told me the easiest way to piss off a leaf fan is to mention Fraser's name. You can simply say '1993' and it's the first thing they talk about. (That and game 7 of course). I think they see us as a curse since their last championship was the year before we came into the league. Funny..

I was at that game. Happened right in front of me. I was eight rows up at the hash marks. Gretzky clipped Gilmour not on the follow-through but on bringing his stick back after the follow-through, and then Gilmour fell like he suddenly forgot how to skate. I honestly didn't know the leafs fans were still thinking about it or had promoted it to the level of Legend. p.s. Frasier said he didn't see it (not that he missed the call) and also obviously the linesmen didn't see it either, so the correct call is no call. If they had thrown Gretzky out of the game (mandatory 5 and ejection in those days, right?) for a high-sticking play they didn't actually see, just because Gilmour has blood on his face (not exactly a rare occurrence), THAT would have been one of the worst calls in history.

Ask yourselves why a player who is grazed on the chin by a stick would suddenly fall flat on his face. Splash...

Scoreboard.

tantrum4 said:
Funny how no one remembers an incident from the exact same game that was also missed....Doug Gilmour's head-but on McSorely right in front of the ref after a whistle...what comes around, goes around Leafs fans!!

That's EXACTLY what I thought when I saw this. Gilmour should have been suspended for that (I think it's an automatic match penalty for headbutting) but he didn't get called for anything.

Bite it Leafs fans, we still have to eat it for Marty and his damned curve stick the series after.

Man, and I thought this was going to be about Luke/Brayden Schenn!

Glad to read it's not.

Here we are in the Dog Days of August, there's Yankees-Red Sox on one of my computers, and you guys have me howling here late at work talking about...

1993.

Hell, Leafs fans, get OVER it!

Gotta admit, though--I'm an Angels fan, and until 2002's Championship there was always the crushing loss to the Boston Red Sox in 1986. Until 2002's Championship, you could just say to me, "1986", and I would launch into the injustice of it all, the blooper Red Sox logo on the TV screen just before Henderson hit it out after his little twisting hop, DeCinces swinging at the first pitch and popping out with two outs and the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth (never forgave him for that), Downing on deck never getting to bat, Gary Pettis losing his ALCS MVP trophy, and the effect that collapse had on Gene Mauch and Donnie Moore (a suicide years later). I will never forget the look Moore had on the mound after giving up the last second home run.

Yeah, I've been there. The only thing that made 1986 tolerable was that miserable little ground ball going between Bill Buckner's legs, saving the Mets. It was the Ultimate Karma, the Red Sox just as crushed as the Angels were (and only one series later!).

What many fans forget is HOW FANTASTIC that playoff game was (Game Five, 1986 ALCS). Lasted eleven innings, it was the best game Bobby Grich said he ever played in. The Angels came back, too in that same game, and almost won it with a home run in the tenth by Gary Pettis (he was a tiny centerfielder; his drive fell just short).

Tell you what, Leafs fans. Race you to the Stanley Cup, and whichever team wins it first gets NHL Long-Time Loser Karma Bragging Rights.

And, for those of you who don't know (most of you likely don't care, and that's okay by me), the Angels beat the Red Sox to that coveted next Championship in 2002, but lost nine games in a row to Boston in the playoffs beginning with that infamous 1986 game (a streak ended last year in game 3 of the 2008 ALDS).

So, to recap: the Angels get Bragging Rights but have been cursed by the Red Sox ever since. Since there has been realignment during the interval the Kings can only play the Leafs in the Cup Finals.

Leafs fans: See you in the Finals!

My friend and I were in Toronto that summer and went to the hockey hall of fame. It was like 80 degrees out but we still wore our Kings jackets and sweaters. I just remember walking around sweaty and not being bothered by TO fans but we got into it with several MTL fans. I remember watching the Stanley Cup review video in The Hall and some young (16-17) (we were 18-19) French Canadian girl was talking all kinds of crap about Marty when it got to The Stick incident and my friend just could not take it anymore and got up bumped into her quite obviously and her Grand Pa starting cursing us out in French. Good times.

I agree with most of the other comments that there have been so many other non-calls in the history of the NHL and that even TO got away with that this one should not even get a mention. The only reason it does is because Wayne ended up seconds later scoring. If Mike Donnelly and Millen's line would have scored would they even still be crying? I know, I know what would Corey Millen and Mike Donnelly be out on the ice at that time of the game? I am just saying.

As far as the Angels... Boston even had there guys all juiced up when they won theirs... Remember that home run that Ortiz hit to end the Angels season over the Green Monster!?

All of Canada is still mad that the series was not TO vs MTL.

-Dave

Macdup, don't think that the 2002 Angels didn't have a few of their own juicers... Donnally, their always sweating relief pitcher, comes to mind, as does Spiezio (who shrunk quite a bit after his heroics).

The comparison of hockey futility with baseball futility is interesting, though, especially because TOR would most match the Yankees by their popularity, but would match the Red Sox (until this millenium) by their failures. Can you imagine the Yankees with a 40+ year gap without winning a title?

That's why we as Kings fans need to hold on to 1993, because of its overall significance in the scheme of hockey Failure Karma. Forget the Cup Finals, that seven-game series against the Leafs was Classic. Have to admit, I didn't see the Kings beating the Leafs, until the Fat Lady Sang and it was over. It was one of the greatest accomplishments in Kings' History, and should be celebrated more frequently, IMHO. But not only did the Kings make the Cup Finals that year, they broke the hearts of millions of overbearing Leafs fans in a way that still resonates with them 17 years later. I think more is written about the Leafs loss than even Calgary's near miss or Edmonton's near miss more recently.

What makes it even more sweet in retrospect is that the Kings are now a fundamentally BETTER organization than the Leafs. In my mind's eye I see many a disappointed Leafs fan during the year the Kings finish off their first Cup run. Somehow it is in the Kings' karma to vanquish a Canadian team when they finally do win it all.

Can you imagine how sweet it would be to beat both the Leafs AND Brian Burke for the Cup?

Actually, that would be a good thread.

Make it a poll:

Which team would we fans MOST want to beat in the Cup Final for our first Stanley Cup Championship?

I know there will be many who want Montreal in a rematch... That would be okay, but I would pick TOR over MTL, BOS or even NYR.

That would be HISTORY, TOR Interrupted, Revisited.

As a kings fan who was at the game and sitting behind the goal(up high) it was the greatest one minute in all the 32 years that I have been going to Kings games. Had that call been made and Gretzky not scored that goal I wouldn't have kissed the cute girl next to me(total stranger). The fans had a twenty minute dog pile in the bleachers and a two hour celebration at the Great Western Forum parking lot, then driving down Praire Avenue towards Manhattan Beach Henneseys honking the horn with hundreds of other vehicles and giving high fives to the people in the cars next to us the entire way. Hockey was never bigger in Los Angeles, you couldn't go anywhere without hearing about our beloved Kings...... Those were the last memories I had of greatness at a home game for the LA KINGS, as I drank the night away in celebration. We were one game away from The Stanley Cup and just knew we were going to win it! Wonder what that cute girl is doing now?????

Bako -

Agreed on everything you said. As far as who I would want the Kings to play in the finals:

Pittsburgh

Toronto and Montreal have meaning for us, obviously, but those organizations are in disarray. Hilariously, I don't see either of them being good enough soon enough.

Although, Kings/Islanders would be kind of cool.

Or Kings/Hamilton...

3 words: Felix the Cat

16yrs ago and Toronto fans are STILL crying over that b.s. Get the heck over it already. Crap like that with a penalty not being called when they should of HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN TODAYS NHL EVEN. So time to build that bridge and get over it already.

We don't hear the Buffalo Sabres fans still crying over the time back in 99' when Brett Hull's skate was in the goal crease for which reasoning being of that was the BIG reason WHY Dallas won the Stanley Cup.

Bako-

As for what you've said in your recent post "Toronto and Montreal have meaning for us, obviously, but those organizations are in disarray. Hilariously, I don't see either of them being good enough soon enough."

Well have you been following-up with how the Kings been doing lately since the arrival of Dean Lombardi reconstructing the whole outlook of the team? Obviously not!

So before you go shooting your mouth off, do some research because the Kings are on the rise, while your Toronto Maple Leafs are to be in the crapper for a while.

I would say get over it Leaf fans. But are we over losing to Montreal in the Finals? I still can't watch or listen to game 2. Not only for the McSorley stick incident, but on I believe the tying goal John LeClair was in the crease & that goal shouldn't have counted. Maybe I should get a life.

Brown23,
I think you need to read his post again, because that is exactly what he is saying.... He is saying the Kings are on the rise, and Toronto is in disarray.

Brown23:

???

I've got to say thank you to Prime Ticket, Bob Miller, Jim Fox and Nick Nickson for doing Kings Classics on Tuesdays. I have been loving watching those old games. The '89 playoff game with the Krushelnyski goal, Gretzky's first game as a King and one of the '01 plaoff games against the Red Wings next week! Great stuff! I wouldn't mind seeing some even older games. I'm thinking the Miracle on Manchester and maybe even the first ever Kings game!

Anyway, thanks to those guys again for helping make the summer not so horrible!

I can testify to them being still angry. I lived in Kingston Ontario (Gilmore's hometown) and went out to a bar for the Kings vs Leafs on hockey night in Canada a few years back. That was the game when we had Roman Choke-manic in net and we blew a 4-1 lead in the 3rd and tied 4-4. I made the mistake of wearing my Palfy jersey and the entire night i had nearly 45 leafs fans trying to fight me and had about 5 beers dumped on me. The entire game they chanted Gretzky sucks Frasor sucks etc... I couldn't believe how they still dwell on that one play. Canadians are nice people... leafs fans not so much...

the leafs won their 13 stanley cups between the years 1918 to 1967...

the kings first season was 67-68...

hmmmmmm...coincidence....???

for such a storied franchise's fans to aim all their bitterness and disgust over a "blown" call 16 years ago is somewhat juvenile and irrelevant...

but maybe leafs fans frustrations with the kings are rooted deeper - the team hasn't won anything important...like a cup...since the kings have been in existence...

maybe the kings put a hex on the leafs upon entering the league...(just as juvenile, i suppose)...

maybe they have anger that our best point season...105 in 74-75...were directed by former leaf and hall of famer bob pulford...

who knows...?

but toronto fans are missing the bigger picture - the status of their current team and franchise...and maybe if they stop pouting about the past, they can show more appropriate concern over their immediate future...which doesn't look any brighter...

BROWN23...

i don't know what they hell yr post is about in response to BAKO's...you clearly didn't read what BAKO said and/or completely misread his opinion(s)...

furthermore...not that my virtual hockey pal needs anyone running to his defense...but BAKO is one of the most respected and loyal kings bloggers on this site...and his parallelisms on his beloved angels and kings...(yes...he's a kings fan, buddy)...are interesting and insightful...which is plenty more than i can say about someone like yrself that unfortunately posted a rather incoherent and thoughtless response...

but with every thread comes another chance at redemption...everybody gets a mulligan...and you just used yrs...good luck next time...!

Shut up Leafs fans. The non-call on the Gilmore's (KARMA budy) head-butt was atrocious. So F---ing blantant, I remember the Kings' announcers reading the rule book, quoting chapter and verse (I believe it was section C) on the mandatory ejection that Gilmore deserved. It was classic 1990's play-off hockey officiating: CRAPPY.

Or how about during the regular season when Gilmore two handed Sandstrom across the leg, putting him out of action for a long stretch. A blatant cheapshot that resulted in no penalty or suspension. Karma indeed.

I can't believe I actually read every post, but I did. I've come to the conclusion that Kings fans are by far the most clued out fans in the NHL. The Leafs, under Brian Burke's mere 6 months, are a team clearly on the rise. So are the Kings. So good on both.
As far as the Fraser call goes, it wasn't the only one. The Leafs grossly outplayed the Kings in 5 of the 7 games. The refereeing was hideously one sided in the two games previous to Fraser's, by Don the Donut eating Fatso Koharski and Bill McCreary.
The replays, for the guy that watches the reruns on ESPN Classic, clearly show Fraser right behind Gretzky and Gilmour (in the best possible position to see the slash), who goes right to the ice upon being clipped for 30 stitches. That's about the severity of a face slash that was needed to put a warrior like Gilmour down. Or the cross check to the head that McSorley delived to Gilmour that resulted in McSorleys face being mashed and bloodied courtesy of the considerably smaller Wendel Clark. The point is that Fraser saw the slash and ignored it because it was Gretzky that did it. I wonder when Fraser admits that? In Game 7, the writing was on the wall. That was the second game that the Kings won legitimately. All kinds of Conspiracy theories were floated after that series; all are very plausable, and based upon the Americanized version of the NHL since Gary Buttman took control, are well within the realm of "likely". It was the 100th anniversary of the NHL playoffs, one Canadian team had already qualified and Bettman didn't want two Canadian teams in the finals, let alone how bad he wanted Gretzky in the 100th Stanley Cup battle. I really should spell out the rest for clued out Kings fans, but it would likely still be lost on the resident genius's like BAKO. LMAO

I will NEVER be over McSorley's stick, so i can't blame them.

Gretzky ruined the NHL

I was at that game and it was one of the best hockey memories I have ever had being a Kings fan. The place went nuts and I was hugging complete strangers. Toronto fans need to get over it. We had a great series on both ends of the ice in each game. Come on McSorley and Gilmore fights they were the best. People miss calls look at Dallas they won a cup off of a bad call against Buffalo. That was a far worse call.