Pick the fourth line

In contrast to previous seasons, the Kings — with 12 days still remaining before the start of the season — already appear to have their top three lines set, with…


What, then, to do with the fourth line? One “agitator” and one “enforcer”? Two of one and none of the other? Ivanans or Westgarth? Clune or Zeiler (or Clifford)? Is Harrold your center, for certain? Others? Remember, also, that there will likely be two spare forwards on the roster, so keep in mind that you’re selecting five players for three spots, essentially. Also keep in mind that Harrold can play defense if needed… So, what do you think?

For the record, I’m largely non-committal on this issue. I’d like to see the Kings give chances to Clune and Harrold, but I really don’t have a strong opinion on Ivanans vs. Westgarth, etc.

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  • Ersberg


  • Tyler

    I’d like:


    that 4th line up there is realistic but i would personally like: clifford-clune-ivanans. too many rooks though

  • I’d love to see a “youngsters” line with Clifford-Schenn-Clune.

  • james


  • Datacloud

    Westgarth and Zeiler are worthless. I want nothing to do with them.


    Problem is, we have three LWs with fourth line potential, and no natural RWs, although most wings can play either side nowadays. Lewis is the obvious center in my mind (he is very gifted in his own end), and I want to see Richardson either make strides to justify a 2nd round pick or be busted once and for all so we can move on. Ivanans needs to get 5:00 a game, and I’d like to see Clune or Clifford get minutes as well. They can agitate better than Zeiler, and they actually have some skill to go along with that role. I’ve stated previously that after Harrold’s posterization by Ryan last year, that I want nothing to do with him, despite his versatility. Hyperbolic reasoning aside, he still should be available as he can pretend to be a defenseman for short periods of time.

  • Mike

    The sooner we get rid of Zeiler, the better.

    I’d like to see…
    1. Clune
    2. Lewis
    3. Westgarth
    4. Richardson
    5. Harrold

    Waived: Ivanans, Zeiler

  • Kingboston

    Ivanans-Lewis-Zeiler with Harrold and (gulp) Richardson as the extra 2. Westgarth should be close by as well. Monarchs will be interesting to watch this yr.

    Of course Stoll could always be the 4th line C should B. Schenn make it right to the pros like his bro L. Schenn….

  • Mike

    Also, if Lewis doesn’t make the team, I’d rather see Dominic Moore doing our 4th line center duties before Harrold

  • dtownmbrown

    I haven’t seen any of the competing players this training camp, but strictly on merit/name/the-effect-of-last-night’s-orange-chicken-on-my-digestive tract, I’d go with:


    And keep Zeiler/Ivanans around as healthy scratches or injury subs.

  • Sebastian22

    My perfect 4th line would be…

    (LW) Anyone but Zeiler, (C) Anyone but Zeiler, (RW) Anyone but Zeiler

    I split the minutes at Center between Harrold and Richardson, and some kind of a Clune, Ivanans, Westgarth combo/rotation on the wings.

  • Milton Waddams

    I’d like to see Clune / Lewis / Westgarth. Westgarth (unlike Ivanans in my opinion) can handle the puck and make a pass here and there. I like the relatively resonsible Harrold as a spare center and spare D. Although I really like Clifford, and think he is going to be a good player some day, I don’t think there’s any need to rush his development along.

  • dmh012

    Clune – Richardson – Westgarth

  • AK47

    Don’t sleep on my dude Trev Lewis..

    I can see Schenn playing 9 games and then getting sent back to Brandon, since his team is hosting the Memorial Cup and whatnot.

    This is if Schenn stays with the club for the 9 games


    This is if Schenn gets sent back to Brandon


  • dezgal

    My guess is that we are going to see…

    I’d rather see some skill/speed and defensive responsibily on the line (Richardson-Lewis-Harrold) but Murray seems to like an enforcer and an agitator on the 4th line.

  • stepa

    For fun Clifford-Schenn-Ivanans. Go Kings .

  • nykingfan


    I’ve never seen Clune play, so it’s just a hunch. I’ve seen Richardson and Westgarth play and would really like not to see either of them again….
    Zeiler is Zeiler….he’s no better or worse than Westgarth. I always liked Zeiler’s hustle, but his lack of skill and size is a serious detriment.

  • 4thlinechecker

    First 9 games:

    Clifford – harrold – Westy

    After that:

    Clune – harrold – westgarth


  • wavesinair

    It was a short practice today. The lines were switched up a bit. All the Zeiler haters take note. Heres who was on the iceand who wasnt.

    Purcell/Kopitar/Williams (wearing #11?)

    DEFENSMEN (greene and drewiske played together a lot)

    All three goalies were in practice with ersberg and bernier splitting time at one end.
    DL watched intently.


  • jack handy

    dmh012 said:

    Clune – Richardson – Westgarth

    i’ll second this.

    this line combo seemed to work saturday night… i say stick with it until it doesn’t.

    press boxers waiting for injury/match-up scenarios-


  • Clune-Lewis-Ivanans
    Press box: Harold, Richardson

    That’s a tough line to play against that has a bit of 2-way responsibility and isn’t a throw away line like it has been the past four years.

  • Crownme87


    I’m a big believer in intimidation and I believe Ivanans prescence on the fourth line will at least give other teams a second thought about running one of our star players. Ivanans is one tough SOB and I’d like to keep him around.

  • Johnny Kick a Hole In The Sky

    Is this Zeiler bum still around? Why is he even still around camp?

  • KingNewfie

    Whatever happens, it’s very exciting to be in this kind of discussion. It’s rather new to us all I would imagine.

    On the issue, I kinda would like to see both Ivanans and Westgarth stay. Not really sure about the middle, but I believe those two would compliment each other nicely with their different styles. It wouldn’t be a fun line to go up against, that’s for sure.

  • TB


    Ivanans has developed over the past year. Right now I’d say that both he and Westgarth probably provide the same exact level of contribution to the team. But on a young team, I learn towards Ivanans on his experience as a bit of a edge.

    With Lewis, for me…its more about him earning his chance. Harrold does offer versatility, but seriously, he hasn’t been outstanding, and as the system churns out new talent, I think its Lewis’ turn to get a fair shot.


    Can someone with a lot of hockey knowledge tell me (all of us) why a 4th line can’t be a scoring line? As far as I know, when players are picked to make the olymic teams, they don’t pick a checking line, they pick a 4th line that can score goals.
    My 4th line:
    Lewis, Schenn, anyone but Zeiler

  • Brown23

    The 4th line would be considered with Zeiler/Harrold/Ivanans more than likely at the start of season, which I hope not. That is a useless line that shouldn’t be on the ice, PERIOD. Something decent would on a 4th line would be a lil’ something like this Clune/Lewis/Clifford. If they put Westgarth on that line I could manage that, if Clifford was to be sent down to the minors this season for more peppering. So forget Richardson, Harrold, Zieler, and Ivanans. Put them on waivers or something. Tell Colorado that the Kings want their 2nd round pick back in return for Richardson because he hasn’t shown much of anything since being with the Kings. I would like to see Schenn on this team this season, but he doesn’t belong on the 4th line with his kind of potential he has. The only way for Schenn to make it is if he continues to show thru exhibition games an all that he 100% deserves to be here over Purcell.

  • JonG

    I liked what I saw of Trevor Lewis last year, so I hope he nails down a spot. Either Ivanans or Westgarth on one side, and perhaps Clune on the other. Harrold and Richardson as the extras.

    I’m still not sold on Teddy Purcell, but otherwise our top three lines looks pretty good. As others have noted, I think our “third” line is probably at least as good as our second line.

    I see Teddy Purcell as this year’s Matt Moulson. Give him every chance to succeed over the first 20-30 games, and if he doesn’t perform then move on with someone else.

  • nykingfan

    Not Impressed

    I’ll take a stab at it

    Usually the 4th line provides energy and toughness.
    The olympics are a short, highly skilled competition where you match your best against the other countries best.
    When you play an 82 game schedule, there are going to be nights where the team comes out flat…you want the 4th line guys to go out and have a shift where they keep the puck deep in the opponents zone and forecheck hard and throw the body around. Sometimes this turns the momentum of the game around and your skill players feed off of that energy. The 4th line is about grit more than skill.
    That’s the reason that 4th lines usually only get a handful of shifts a night as opposed to your top 3 lines where your skill players reside.

  • dmh012

    Also not impressed

    If you have line one two and three each play 18 – 20 Min a night, you would give line four a max of 6 min, that is not enough ice time to allow players like Schenn and Clifford to develope their skills. We want the kids to get time so they can become better players. This is the same reason we will have Bernier starting in the AHL it is hard to have him and Quick play 60 games each, when the Kings only play 82 games a year.

  • Bring Back the Shield Jersey

    We need to score more goals this year to make the playoffs. Let’s hope the top lines produce more. But why not look to get some more points from the fourth line? If it had 10 goals last year, I’d be shocked. And I’m talking about players scoring while on the 4th line, not getting points while on a different line.

    Ivanans is useless. Flat-out useless. Did nothing when Doughty got run. Did nothing when Kopi got run. He does not know how to retaliate correctly. Instead of beating the crap out of someone, he too often recieves stupid penalties while trying to get the other guy to fight. He does not know how to play his role. His only fights are choreographed.

    Zeiler. That’s more than enough said about him.

    I’d prefer that Clune and Westgarth rotate between wing and press box. The other wing and center should be stronger offensively. Don’t really care who, but would prefer a youngster at center, Lokti, Schenn, Moller or Azevedo, probalbly would switch Moller and Azevedo throughout the season between 4th line and Manchester. On the other wing, rotate Richardson and Harrold.

    Bottom line is: no knuckle dragging line (KDL, that was good). Let’s get some production out of that line.

  • JJ4Pres


  • sd

    First off, I don’t see how both Ivanans and Westgarth can make the team. They fill the same role. I’m torn on who I want to fill that role though. Ivanans is strong as an ox, but as noted above, he doesn’t retaliate properly at all times. Westgarth has a passion for fighting, and that passion we need, but he didn’t look like he was strong enough to go up against Parros or the other heavy weights in the league, at least not yet. Next season after Ivanans is gone.. he’s in.

    For this season, I’d go with:

    Reserves: Ivanans and Harrold

    Another question: Who is going to be our 6th Dman? Hickey the puck mover or Drewiske the stay-at-home guy? If Drewiske stays and Hickey goes to Manchester, then who is our reserve Dman (assuming Harrold is now a forward)? Piskula?

    I say leave Hickey up. He’s looked great. Make DD the reserve. Thoughts?

  • sd

    Oh and, I agree, Schenn needs valuable ice time. He needs to play on line 2 or go back to the juniors. Unless we trade Stoll or Handzus (which I’m not totally opposed to), there’s really not room for him.

    Can we call him up from the juniors once if he’s kicking butt? I’ve been meaning to look that up.

  • marc nathan

    it’s laughable that after that mid-season transition where Peter Harrold moved from defense to wing, NOW he’s being heralded as a center… I mean, seriously, where does this come from, and why in God’s name would you just give this guy an NHL job as the fourth line center without sending him to the American League to actually play the position for a while, try it on and see if it fits. It just makes NO sense to me. I don’t care one way or another about Harrold per se, as he’s not going to be a pivotal cog in this being or not being a playoff team, but if you (Kings management) truly believe that a kid who has played D his entire collegiate and pro career, then gets shuttled up to RW for half a season can now add the responsibilities of being an NHL center for 8-10 minutes a game, then I think you should take your heads out of you butts for a minute, listen to that popping sound, take a deep breath for a second or two, and get a clue. The AHL is there for a player’s DEVELOPMENT. Develop this kid at a new position before you throw him out there and expect him to compete on a nightly basis against players who actually know the positions they are being asked to play. You want Harrold at center? Let him play 30-40 games in Manchester at that position and when he’s got a firm grasp on his new responsibilities, at least you can say that he’s done the job at the next highest level of hockey and it’s time to see what he can do in the NHL.

    Just my $.02 … your mileage may vary.

  • PRMan

    Clune >>>>>>>>>>>>> Zeiler

  • Ersberg

    Marc Nathan-

    I completely agree with you. Harrold is not good at any of the positions he’s assigned to. I lost confidence him once he got schooled by Ryan last season. No D-man worth his weight gets completely burned on a spin-o-rama at this level. He didn’t even put a shoulder on the guy. He’s even worse up front. And now Center?? You’ve got to be kidding me.

    These are the types of moves that DL does that bugs me. This isn’t coming from Murray, either. I know he has a lot to do with positional decision making whether fans want to believe it or not,

  • Quisp



    Waive Zeiler, Richardson, Ivanans. Let Harrold be the swiss army knife of 2009 (in the press box).

    Okay, I think the best version is Clune/Lewis/Cliche with Westgarth and Harrold in the press box. Westgarth can be swapped for Cliche when he’s needed. I really don’t care though. Because the real line-up should be:


    But what do I know?

  • ziggy33

    I’d like to see Lewis get a shot to center the fourth line with Harrold and Richardson on the wings. Lets not forget that we traded a 2nd rounder for Richardson so we should give him a shot this season to see if he can prove that he belongs in the NHL. I would keep Ivanans around and maybe dress him when we play teams like Ana. or Cal. I am not a fan of his at all but its probably a good idea to have an enforcer on the team. The other forward who I would keep on the roster is Cliche. Who knows maybe the guy can score a little? Doubt we would be getting any offense from Zeiler, Westgarth, or Clune. I appreciate Zeiler’s hustle but this team needs to score a lot more if they want to make the playoffs.


    Thanks Nykingfan,
    That is the best explaination of the purpose of the 4th line I’ve heard.

    dmh012, Thanks, but if the 4th line were a scoring line, the coach would play each line 14-16 minutes a game, so I like Nykingfan’s explaination better.

  • sd

    Marc nathan,
    While I agree that Harrold is not the best man for the 4th line center job, it’s not because of experience or skill at that position, it’s because we have better players that deserve a shot at that position. It actually isn’t much of a stretch for an offensive defenseman to play 4th line center, because, especially in Murray’s system, 4th line center is basically a defensive forward. He’s a good passer and can rush the puck as well. Again, not saying he should get the job, but he’s a decent fill-in, in a pinch.

  • PaulCat1969

    This should make everyone happy:

    Tuesday, September 22, 2009 Contact: Kings Communications

    LOS ANGELES The Los Angeles Kings have announced the following player transactions:

    Assigned to Manchester Monarchs of the American Hockey League:
    Drew Bagnall D
    Gabe Gauthier C
    Brandon Segal RW
    John Zeiler – RW

    The Kings have 31 players remaining on their 2009 Training Camp roster.

    The Kings are scheduled to play the New York Islanders tonight at the Sprint Center in Kansas City at 5 p.m. (PT). The Kings then play against the Colorado Avalanche at the Pepsi Center in Denver on Wednesday at 6 p.m. (PT). Hear both games on Kings flagship radio station AM 1150.

  • Quisp

    I take it back. My vote for the fourth line is Clune/Fleury/Clifford.

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