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All Saints Church wants to build an outdoor amphitheater in the civic center with residential property a few hundred feet to the north and south but doesn't want to submit an Environmental Impact Report? Once again, it is All Saints claiming the rules everyone else has to follow don't apply to it. How can you trust an organization that prides itself on "civil disobedience" with the operation of an outdoor amphitheater in the civic center? This is an organization that regularly encourages people to break various traffic and municipal ordinances and whose leader has been arrested numerous times for doing so.

How veddy fascinating. I just adore civil disobedience but disturbing the peace to make a buck is not what that is all about. Is that what you think they do?

I think that they are free to worship their magical sky god as long as they do not disturb surrounding property owners and that its a crazy idea to give those people an outdoor amphitheater in that location.

The leader of All Saints claims breaking the law is "an act of prayer and worship, a liturgical act." http://www.allsaints-pas.org/sermons/(3-5-03%20Ash%20Wed)%20From%20Ashes%20to%20Blessings.pdf ASH WEDNESDAY • 7:30 P.M. ALL SAINTS CHURCH PASADENA, CALIFORNIA FROM ASHES TO BLESSINGS A sermon by The Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, Jr. Ash Wednesday • March 5, 2003 "This morning I participated in an act of Civil Disobedience as a way of protesting our nation’s plans to attack and make war against Iraq. Our Rector Emeritus, George Regas, 16 other people and I blocked traffic at the intersection of Los Angeles and Temple Streets in downtown Los Angeles, failed to disperse when the police told us we were in violation of the law, and after refusing to do so were arrested and taken to jail, booked, processed, and released. After release I was waiting in the lobby of the Police station for the others to be released. I was still wearing liturgical vestments – black cassock, surplice, and stole – because the Civil Disobedience action was for us an act of prayer and worship, a liturgical act."

http://www.allsaints-pas.org/sermons/JEB%204-9-06%20God's%20Healing%20Embrace%20in%20Crucifying%20Times.pdf God’s Healing Embrace In Crucifying Times A sermon preached by the Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, Jr. Palm Sunday - April 9, 2006 "Our gazing upon the Cross this week can empower us even to participate in civil disobedience, as did Jesus – if that is what is called for."

http://www.allsaints-pas.org/transcripts/JEB%204-2-06%20Rectors%20Forum.pdf Report From The Front Lines Of The Immigration Debate A Presentation to the Rector’s Forum by The Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, Rector, All Saints Church April 2, 2006 "I want to commend it to you, particularly an article on civil disobedience called “The Spirit of Disobedience: An Invitation to Resistance” by Curtis White of Illinois State University."

http://www.allsaints-pas.org/site/DocServer/DecJan_Newsletter2_1_.pdf?docID=741 We are currently working with a nation wide coalition on participating in civil disobedience in Washington, D.C in front of the Sudanese Embassy. If you are interested in learning more about this or possible participating with an All Saints delegation to Washington, D.C please contact Vivien Sansour, director of Peace & Justice at 626-583- 0048 OR email at vsansour@allsaints-pas.org

Civil disobedience as a spiritual practice? http://www.allsaints-pas.org/saintsalive/aSA-060402a.pdf Come listen to the Rector’s report on this historic journey and discuss with him the issue of overhauling the immigration system so that legal status and legal channels for migration replace illegal status and illegal immigration. Religion and politics, the Episcopal Church’s presence in Washington, civil disobedience as a spiritual practice, and IRS regulations will also be addressed.

Getting convicted of and being on probation for disobeying municipal codes is a source of fun and laughter at All Saints. http://www.allsaints-pas.org/site/DocServer/GFRForum070325.pdf?docID=1981 Dr. Regas: I agree with that one hundred percent. I think that one of the things that we have planned in connection with the April 15th demonstration is to follow it on April 16 with civil disobedience in protest of the war. We have moved than now to June, which we think will be a better time for it. I am leaving for Europe on the 16th, and I wanted to be arrested with Ed. [The voice of Mary Regas, George’s wife, is heard from the audience saying, “George Regas, tell them that you are on probation for a year!”] Mary, this is my podium. [Laughter]

http://www.allsaints-pas.org/site/DocServer/JEB_1-28-07_What_Love_Empowers_Us_To_Be.pdf?docID=902 What Love Empowers Us To Be A sermon preached by the Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, Jr. January 28, 2007 Many of us are thinking about civil disobedience in these days of crisis because our leadership is imprisoned in its own rhetoric and our Congress and Senate seem not to have the courage to stop the funding for an occupation and escalation of this war. Moral responsibility is in our hands.

http://www.allsaints-pas.org/site/DocServer/JEB_1-28-07_What_Love_Empowers_Us_To_Be.pdf?docID=902 What Love Empowers Us To Be A sermon preached by the Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, Jr. January 28, 2007 Many of us are thinking about civil disobedience in these days of crisis because our leadership is imprisoned in its own rhetoric and our Congress and Senate seem not to have the courage to stop the funding for an occupation and escalation of this war. Moral responsibility is in our hands.

You are comparing apples and oranges with their faith and planning. Civil disobedience isn't new and wasn't conceived at All Saints, what people believe isn't political. Anonymous sure does have a lot to say without much courage to say it with a name.

So if All Saints decides that it needs to hold a summer series of Rock Concerts called "Rockin'with the Rector" in order to "worship" their sky god and attract people to their church than does this "spiritual practice" trump the municipal code? If they violate the noise ordinance does that become "civil disobedience" and a source of fun and laughter to the attention-seekers at All Saints? Does their Amphitheater become a "sacred space"? Matthew 6:5 "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."

Bacon vs. Jesus Christ "After release I was waiting in the lobby of the Police station for the others to be released. I was still wearing liturgical vestments – black cassock, surplice, and stole – because the Civil Disobedience action was for us an act of prayer and worship, a liturgical act." - Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, Jr., All Saints Church, Ash Wednesday, March 5, 2003 "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men." - Jesus Christ as recorded in Matthew 6:5

Still bitter about the IRS deal? City planning and code enforcement is not even in the same realm as encouraging peace and declaring an opposition to war and then being targetted by IRS for being accused of preaching politics. Has All Saints said they want to hold Rock Concerts or do you assume the worst of a church you didn't like much to begin with? My guess is the latter...and how about posting name with all your scripture? Typical "hater".

What's typical of you and of All Saints is how you try to silence anyone that disagrees with you by personally vilifying them while at the same time falsely claiming you are involved in religious activity when in fact its political activity. its pretty simple...explain why a church that preaches civil disobedience, whose leaders encourage people to break the law by blocking traffic and trespassing, should be trusted with a privately owned outdoor amphitheater in the heart of our City.

and of course Alex...you never are going to explain why its unreasonable to think that All Saints could be expected to defy the municipal code in the operation of its "outdoor sacred site". But hey...but maybe if you engage in enough namecalling no one will notice.

There isn't anything typical about me :) And I have no desire to silence you, just find out who has these opinions. Are you so afraid to speak as yourself that you would chose to be silent instead of writing your name? Because that is your choice and not some power I have. Are your opinions so provocative that if your true identity were revealed your life would be over or altered? In none of my comments was I vilifying you, are you so typical of someone like you - whoever that is - that anyone that has a different opinion than yours, that equals a personal attack? There isn't anything simple about war and for you to compare having an open air pavilion to the War is ridiculous. I now I consider this conversation done since you really can't have a discussion with someone that hides. Peace isn't political.

"Alex" isn't exactly identifying yourself is it "Alex". We all know that attacking someone for being anonymous is internet discussion group tactic #1 for trying to silence them. You are being disingenuous. You said it as a tactic to try and silence me and it was a lame thing to do...especially from someone who is anonymous herself. Still waiting why people who claim that breaking municipal codes is one way that they "pray and worship" should be trusted with the operation of a private outdoor amphitheater in the heart of our civic center near another church, residences, and across the street from a court house and City Hall.

Talk about trying to silence someone... I enter my email address when I log on to comment, but the site doesn't publish it. The names that have a link are people with webpages - I don't have one of those. My last name is Zucco. Now what?

You forget to mention that you are a member of All Saints Church and that you don't live in Pasadena. And of course we are still waiting for you to explain why a group, which claims that breaking the law is one way they "pray and worship", should be trusted with the operation of a private outdoor amphitheater in the heart of Pasadena's civic center near another church, residences, and across the street from a court house and City Hall. Here let me help you... "Yes, All Saints is led by a man that encourages its members to break the law as a religious protest against govrnment acts and we can't promise we won't break the law if the City lets us build an outdoor amphitheater across the street from a courthouse and City Hall."

You sure do google quickly :) What else do you know? Let me help: My favorite colors are green and blue, I like to play tennis and I can't drink beer or wine.

I know that you are never going to explain why it is unreasonable to conclude that All Saints Church cannot be trusted not to disturb its neighbors with an outdoor amphitheater.

Probably not to someone I don't know, and not online to "Anonymous"...but if you want to buy me a drink (note the no beer or wine) - then we can talk :) I am partial to "Big Daddy Lemonade" - that is Lemonade and Coconut Rum. Very tasty...tastes like summer. And now you know so much about me and I know nothing about you. Doesn't quite seem fair.

You are so nice. You are so cool. You are my friend.

A wonderful religious leader that encouraged civil disobedience, Martin Luther King Jr. promoted non-violent protests against social wrongs. I don't know a thing about All Saints except for what I've read here, but I do think an enviromental impact report should be done due to it's location, and would hope there'd be some green building consideration.

Ironically, it may be the Republican Congress' Religious Land Use Act that gives All Saints the ability to use the land as they feel appropriate, not the way the city or the neighbors may prefer. Martin, have you gotten any sleep since this popped up? Paul

The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA) does not give All Saints "the ability to use land as they feel appropriate". It just prevents them from being substanitally burdened and from being treated on less than equal terms with nonreligious institutions. Preventing them from building a private outdoor amphitheater in the Civic Center Core is neither burdensome nor discriminatory.

Sounds great, except All Saints could claim their amphitheater is necessary to their religious services and regulating or prohibiting that use is discriminatory and unfairly restricts their ability to practice their religion in the manner they choose. Substantially burdened is in the eye of the beholder, or maybe the 9th Circuit. Paul

The city uses the plaza on the other side of city hall essentially as an amphitheater for events, activities and concerts. It would be difficult to argue that the municipality is ok doing that, but the church across the street is not. Paul

You should probably actually read something about the RLUIPA before claiming it gives All Saints the power to do whatever it wants to do (it doesn't). The City plaza is not used on a continuous basis as an amphitheater and it is a public accomodation. All Saints wants to build a private venue for continuous private use. And of course you know that a temporary use doesn't create an entitlement to a permanent use. Otherwise we wouldn't have Temporary Conditional Use Permits would we?