From our fellow bloggers ...

Anonymous;

Grossman is a great QB when he's not in the panic zone and/or rushed with fear. I am happy that we got to the Superbowl, but I will be more happy when we take it all. But, to throw a KEY interception in the Superbowl and lose all on that one play, it was a bad day to be a Bear QB for a few seconds. I hope that Grossman has learned quite a bit from this experience.

Go BEARS!

DAWG
4N6

Bulldawg- PHS,

I was at the PHS quarterfinal win over Cajon and saw coach Ronnie Joseph. At halftime they presented Joseph and the team their CIF rings. So after the game, I went up to coach Joe and congratulated him on the victory.

You know what was the first thing he responded with?

"Damn Campa, Grossman killed us," said Joseph, a huge Bears fan.

While I wasn't initially too enthusuiatic with the prospect of Vick, he can't be worse then Grossman. In fact, he's actually done okay in the playoffs...whenver he gets there.

Coaches Corner;
Nice post.

I agree with you with the family support, the fan support, and most important, the SCHOOL DISTRICT support. Not to mention, the character of the kids also plays a major part on having a fair season. I have come also dealt with the "ME ME ME" crap and it just kills me that we as coaches have to put up with it. My old HS coach who is now a SGV football ref. He would have NOT put up with that "ME crap! Coach B. did not play that card. We need to take control of the field and not let the parents and/or the players influence our decisions on who gets to play. This is one of the reasons we have TO's now a days, right?

Good luck with your Packers for the 2007 season. Too bad the Bears will crush 'em again.

DAWG
4N6

Campa,
How bout dem Bears for next season??? I heard through the grape-vine that the Bears are looking @ Michale Vick... Some Chi Bear fan mentioned this at a press conference. It may just be wishes, right?

DAWG (Go Bears)
4N6

New York;

Did Coach Markham use the Double-Wing T formation @ Bloomington? I think one of those championship seasons they won a game 71-67. Oh well, it was some 5150 score.

You see, the QB block pays off right? Is time that the QB's earn their $$$$$.

:)

DAWG

Dawg,

Don Markham at Bloomington always utilizes his QB as one of many lead blockers...5 rings to show for it!

I agree with New York on Concord De La Salle. A football program can not be judged by one game. You have to look at the program as a whole with the accomplishments and the production year in and out. I believe Concord has the game winning record with Temple City at number two during the 70's.

Concord is that GOOD and more years to come.

DAWG

New York;
I agree with you regarding the BLOCKING skills. All players should know the basics and the proper techniques on blocking. This is why I coach the O-line and the D-line together in addition, I bring down a few running backs and along with the QB on how to utilize their hands. I strongly believe on using the QB as a lead blocker down a sweep. If he is going to be the QB, he needs to get down and dirty and lead by example. I always tried to implement the use of the QB on a block, but the head coaches always said "NO" due to potential injuries. Foohoo!! If the QB is wearing full-gear and a hellmet, he is going to block along with the O-line and the fullback.

I remember in 1999, TC's JV team QB Matt Malczinsky led on block and put the D-end down on the ground and the RB ran down for a TD.

1999 was a great season @ TC. Not to mention, the M-town JV game with a great 22-21 win by TC as Matt doved backwards for the 2 point conversion.

DAWG

OC,
One thing that makes this blog so much fun is that there is rarely a right answer. I stand by opinion of Concord De La Salle as the best high school football program ever. Massilon has a tremendous tradition but has not been the top dog in Ohio since the 1960s. Valdosta is a monster as well. I ask what you know of those teams schedules. How often did those teams step outside of their boundaries? What type of academic standards did those guys in Ohio and Georgia have to live up to?

I will say this, I am sure that football is far more important to those communities than it is to the Bay area community.

I realize you are more impressed by public schools that are able to sustain success...so am I, but that does not change my opinion that as long as Coach Bob Ladouceur is at the helm, then De La Salle will be great. During his time at De La Salle the past 25+ years, that program has been the best in the country.

If CDLS had to play for the state title on the field during their streak, would the streak have survived as long? Probably not.
If CDLS was a public school, would the streak has been as long? Probably not.
That's why I say they are "one of" the best.

New York thought that Concord DLS was the best high school football program ever. (according to a previous post)
Certainly they are one of the best ever in the nation. The key words being "one of". Early in their win streak they did not play the best in the nation. I give them credit for taking on the best that they could schedule in the later years.

Holy Cow! OC, did you just say DLS wasn't the best team in the nation during their streak or in 2002??

I invite you to read "When the game stands tall". (The story of DLS Spartans and football's longest winning streak by Neil Hayes; foreward by Tony Russa.

In 2002, they were led by Maurice Drew, Chris Biller, Erik Sandie, John Chan, De Montae fitzgerald, Cameron Colvin and Terrance Kelley. Terrance Kelley was headed to the University of Oregon, but the day before he was supposed to leave up north to play LB, he was murdered in his car in front of his grandmother's house.
In 2002, Long beach poly line averaged 6'4 284 (Manual Wright and others) while DLS averaged 6' 225.

OC, DLS played the best around, even beating Mater Dei that had Matt Leinhart and Matt G.

OC is on crack! How can you say that DeLaSalle was not the greatest team in the nation a few years back! Umm...you don't win 151 games in a row by being second. Every team who thought they were better had their shot--each of them failed. DeLaSalle stood the victor with the ability to claim "National Champion". You need help boy!

Valdosta is a good choice and Massillon Washington Ohio is another good choice. I put more weight toward a public school having dominance over a period of years than a private or parochial school. Why? The recruiting edge. Private schools can recruit much easier and don't really have to answer to anyone for doing so.
I would take it one step further and say that the CIF should have a D1 private school state playoff and a D1 public school state playoff.

OC,
You can't refute without offering a counter. Are you talking all time or just a specific year? DLS did not lose or tie a game for over ten years. They man-handled Mater Dei, LB Poly, St. Loius Hawaii, Shreveport Louisiana. What program are you thinking of: Valdosta, St. Iganatious, St. Thomas Aquinas???

New York
Concord DLS may have been the best in California-not in the US.

HS Football Fan,

You are absolutely correct about the greatest high school football program ever, Concord De La Salle. I have the game tape of the 2002 matchup between Poly and DLS. Poly was bigger upfront and deeper in the skill positions. But DLS lead the entire time. DLS linemen literally run to the line of scrimmage. They blew Poly off the ball. It was great.

I beleive Mike Difori is an alumnus of DLS as well...

Coaches Corner,

I like most of your post. You are right in that football and other team sports (even working in an office) requires great attitudes and a willingness to play a new position. The term "team-player" gets thrown around society, though, so much that I think we have lost perception of what it means.

Regarding love, family-football, camarderie, etc.: that stuff is only part of what it takes. Without fundamentals (ball security, good tackling, running backs and receivers who block well, linemen who are in shape, few assignment mistakes, few penalties, good coverage, appropriate play-calling and schemes, sending the plays in quickly, chewing up clock when necessary, putting players in position to be successful, etc.) then a team will lose big games and dissension will set in amongst the ranks of BOTH players AND coaches and all of that love and camaraderie will begin to erode. Hey brother, love don't pay the rent.

Some more Cats' insight: Prior to Coach Garrison taking over as head varsity Coach in 1993, the football program was a sad state of affairs. The fact that the 'Cats should be considered the perrenial favorites to win the RHL and compete for the CIF crown is a testament to the energy that Coach G. brought to the program. Monrovia has had a lot of talent as long as I know of, some years more than others, but typically more than our opponents have. Yet, that did not always translate to victories. Coach G's energy has been enough to turn the talent into a successful program. However, it is now up to the community to decide if we are going to rally and help Garrison get the program over the top. One guy can't do it himself.

It goes back to what I mentioned in earlier posts about Santa Clarita and San Bernardino and OC teams. I really think that CIF titles are tied more to community involvement. I would really like to do a case study on Charter Oak and Los Altos to see what those programs do differently than what WSGV programs are doing.

TCHW,

Great post. You only reinforce what I said earlier in that a team does not need great size to be physical. Your multi-year commitment along with techinique allowed you to win the match-up. Another very important component of linemen's success are the actual plays run and the schemes. The angle of your runningback's approach is critical to allow good blocking up front. This may sound funny, but if you were hypothetically kicking out Harris but Sushi ran outside into Harris, then Sushi would have gotten tackled and you would have looked like you did not block anybody (vice versa if you were shielding Harris to the inside.)
Play calling is also critical. If you are able to bottle a team up after running a couple inside plays, then your linemen can look like heroes pulling around end on a counter. BUT, if you open up with a counter, then the whole thing will likely fall apart because the fat guys are trying to pull but do not benefit from the defensive flow going the other way.

Regarding Harris: of course Lavelle outran him. Lavelle is a D1 back and not even a D1 tackle can keep up. Also, players can improve exponentially between junior and senior year. Harris is still a big-time prospect because he is so tall and he took care of his grades and SATs. Let's keep an eye on Harris and wish him the best as he gets some good training at UCLA.

New York,

You're right Muir had several athletes come up ineligible but The Brownfield type coaches had a certain touch. When talking to Muir players of the past there was a common denominator; coach had expectations. These were 1) work hard on the field, 2) work hard in the class and 3) go to class. There was no exception to the rules. Kids knew if they followed these principles then they could become winners, go to college and maybe the pros.
We owe it to the kids to provide the best possible coaching leadership.

In addition to those out there talking about large linemen remember the Concord De La Salle team that beat LB Poly a gew years ago. The largest lineman was 225 lbs. LB Poly's line had Winston Justice and averaged over 250lbs. They were blown off the line. Strength, technique and timing.

as far as Harris being the best lineman around here I strongly diagree. I played against him last year during CIF playoffs for football. He was listed as 6'6'' and 315lbs and that was his only skill. He has size, period. His speed is nothing. Look in Lavelle's highlight film, u see the big Harris trailing everyplay because he is slow. When I played him he ahd probably 10 inches and 90 pounds on me yet he still couldn't make tackles because i got in his way adn he was too slow to move aroudn and get to Sushi. Just contributing my experience for those of you who don't play anymore and are spectators.

As I've been reading these BLOGS for the last few months I've come to enjoy the diffrent styles and takes that everybody has(Finchamp-RHP/New York-Cats /Dawg-T C insights)given to the site.Its hard sittin on your hands when you might have some of the answers to these questions,but I guess that is why I enjoy reading these Blogs.I have to admit after that Mid-playoff game it took me awhile to start reading again.But now that the wound has healed and the answers are a little more clear I thought I would share a little thoughts on why i think teams or even a team I now of didn t go further then the finals.One major problem todays athlete has is me,me,me.With all the talent in the world without team there is nothing.Todays coach has there hands full of it.It is cancer.Kids sometimes are just to young to realize just how bad it is,and how it can affect the team.Being a coach at the Varsity and Junior -Varsity levels I've seen the Good and Bad and love it.It is my passion.Sometimes the picture is a little bigger on why kids do this and do that and why they don't play or play there.I've had the blessing of being at the same H.S all my coaching career and came to realize how important it is for a community to be a winner.Coming from private school where you more play for your school then your community its been incredible changing colors.One thing Myself as an athlete never really saw narsism til I started coaching.One thing our staff tried to do is more TEAM,FAMILY,TOGETHER things.Does it work well I guess not all the time.But you never stop .Some years the kids have more of it then others and those usually determine the winning and losing seasons

Talk about pass pro...

one of the many things I have been impressed with in the WSGV schools (the consistent ones) SF, Arcadia, TC is that all their backs know how to pass pro fundamentally. I've realized that by watching SF, that it really is a great necessity and a good thing to have but you have to have a back tough enough to have the desire to do that.

Well Dawg,

I hope you are able to do the same at Monrovia. There is typically a lot of talent to work with on campus, especially relative to our competition.

Fan,

Muir had a large number of players come up ineligible. That is a community problem to solve, not necessarily the coach. Also, it sounds like Muir got beat in the trenches when they played Burroughs. Gotta get those linemen game-ready.

Another thing about line play: Linemen are not the only players who should know how to block (offensively) or take on and shed blocks (defensively). EVERY player needs to master those skills. "Skill" guys should take pride in their ability to lay people out so that their teammates can get a big gain. Receivers should realize that as the running game dominates, the receiver is more likely to catch a big play-action pass. Also, running backs are a critical part of pass protection. Great pass pro leads to successful passing and that opens the run game. See how it all works together? Block, tackle, win...

Want to see a championship in the West SGV? Get and keep qualified coaches at Muir and Pasadena high schools. The talent pool walking around the campuses is incredible. Athletes everywhere. Where are the coach Brownfields?

New York;
You are right regarding LINEMEN in the SGV. When I coached the JV team @ TC, the coaching staff were limited to a few good SIZE linemen. But, we prevailed and made the few a GOOD explosive team off the line. I remember one season, I had a total of 5 linemen and we when on to win the RH league and with a record of 9-1. Like I said in my previous posts, a coach must utilize the given resources and not make excuses of lack of size and speed.

As I quote the great Grambling coach Robinson, " If you dont have great players on your team, then MAKE your players better."

DAWG

By the way, getting a D-1 scholarship has a lot to do with genetics. Just because there may not be a bunch of D-1 capable linemen around, does not mean that West SGV teams can not do a better job of playing physical football. TC does a good job of playing a physial game with limited personell. I think it is all about commitment: Coaches must be committed to developing linemen and PRAISING them for doing the little things well. Too often only players who score touchdowns and make tackles and interceptions are praised. Players on the line must be committed to getting bigger, faster and stronger AND playing with great technique. Size alone rarely wins up front in high school football. Even the Denver Broncos have shown that a great line is fast, explosive and plays together with great technique, while committing few penalty's.

p finchamp,
nice comments on the maryanta scheduling-- but they are facts-- and nice take about the big drop off of campbell hall and other various schools--- just like I said earlier I believe Flintridge Prep made a big run 5 years ago and I believe Poly made one a couple of years ago too.
Now Maryanta made their cinderella run and everyone in the community is wetting in their pants. It is just a one and done but in this case I will give them the benefit of the doubt-- the QB, RB Love, and the DE will 11 sacks are all back(and it is sad that I know this b/c I hate Marianta so much) anyways they play in the worst division in America and they already have six wins in February-- so the coaches only have to look at four films-- I like their chances.

anonymous

Very well said and you underscore one of my points as well. The whole college recognition/recruitment thing should not overshadow playing at any level in HS--sadly it does but so few make it one has to wonder if they wouldn't have had more fun (and personal success) playing in Divisions 9-13. Fewer than 10 kids this year out of the SGV going into D-I college programs and two of them are kickers.

I think the Kare Youth League may be a victim of its own success. The players are part of a winning program and very well coached. They therefore have a lot of confidence in their abilities (maybe overconfidence). Hence they want to test themselves against a higher level of competition than what Rio Hondo faces.

The fact of the matter is that kids will get more respect in the college recruiting process playing for schools around the D6 level (much less D1) than they get for playing at the Prep League level.

The reason for this is evident in the current realignment. Just the jump from D 13 to D 12 was to much for Rio or any of the other prep league teams (I truly believe Poly would have won D 13 if they were still in that division this year). The reason for this is size, not discipline or coaching.

Rio has slowly been moving up the ladder in terms of the competition level it competes against. If they continue that upward progression they may be able to get more students to stay. But at what point does a school with only 45 boys in it (at the high school level) become all about sports and not anything else if they are trying to compete at higher levels?

Great post NY. You have such a nice insight

Anon,
I believe Roxas is good. Is he the best? No, Harris from Duarte is a monster that I can see play in the NFL someday..quick, fast, and strong.
The best in the last 10 to 15 years from the SGV is Brad Bedell from Arcadia High who is going into his 7th year in the NFL. Over the past 20 years and overall, Bruce Matthews from Arcadia is the best ever in the SGV if not nationally ever.

So what is so different about Charter Oak, Los Altos and South Hills? Why can those schools win CIF titles? It has been a long time, probably since Muir's titles in '86-'87 since an SGV team has won it all.

Does the Pacific League need to drop to the former Division 6, which is where Los Altos, CO and SH play? Does St. Francis need to join the Pacific League?

The fact that somebody mentioned ONE offensive lineman (Roxas) probably supports the notion that there are not a whole lot of quality linemen around the valley. Think of how many times a flashy skill team experiences a slow death at the hands of a team with a powerful line.

Head Coaching longevity is not enough. Community support and involvement is critical, as is QUALITY assistant coach longevity. As nice as it is to have Coaches Garrison, Mooney and Dimalante around, there teams are usually respectable but tend to bow out of the playoffs early. Why? I suppose there is no cut and dry answer except that winning CIF takes a lot of things to go right. I think even John Wooden mentioned "a little bit of luck" as a key ingredient.

Back to the community involvement issue: I'm sure that the blue-collar families in Santa Clarita make football a priority. There boosters organizations allow their coaches to focus on football rather than running around town trying to raise money. They make sure their kids have quality coaches, facilities, weight training AND nutrition plans.

pasadenaguy has some good points, but I think therealhsfbfan hits the nail on the head- it's a question of demographics. No- I'm not talking about race actually more the financial side of demographics. Aside from football- would private schools be as competitive in sports like soccer, swimming and volleyball if the parents didn't have the luxury of having their kids playing for club teams as early as possible? Not necessarily just the costs of participation, but the ability to have a parent who has the financial freedom to devote the time necessary. Families who moved to San Bernardino and Riverside counties made the move in alot of cases to allow a parent to have that time and possibly have the extra money to spend on their kids sports.
I'm not picking on the private schools and I know there are alot of private school parents who struggle just like everyone else.
On the football side- all you have to do is look at Alemany. The "neighborhood" that supported that school during it's prime-moved to Santa Clarita.

the real hsfbfan
are you joking Andrew Roxas is possibly one of the best linemen we have ever seen. Last season there was not a single desert team to win a championship other than Canyon Country which really is not even desert. If you want to look for the best competition its in Orange County and the inner city.

Dustin Young (S. Pasadena), Austin Napolitano (Damien) and Chris Amacillas (Temple City) all started for their respective basketball teams this past season. I probably missed another athlete or two. Keep them in Kare and then to RH Prep and RHP wins the Prep League in basketball. Add them to the team in football and RHP is better.

Here's my topic:

Whatever happened to the big boys in the SGV? We haven't had any great O-line kids for a while. It appears that the talnet has shifted to the desert communities. This is why we can't get a team in the SGV to win a CIF championship.

SMG

Did you say 6-44 for those Maranatha opponents, ouch. CSDR was highly rated in 2005 (and shouldn't have been) and Campbell Hall played for the CIF championship, so who woulda guessed such a precipitous drop-off over a year's time?

pasadena guy,
just stating the facts as bad as they hurt--- they are fact.!!!!

Restating what Finchamp said, I believe there is a direct correlation between the longevity of a coaching staff and the success of the program. In your case Finchy--how long has Coach Drain been at RHP? If we look at the solid programs around (and by solid I mean quality strength of schedule, a yearly record of above .500, and fundamentaly sound athletes) I believe we would find that the most impacting correlation to their success would be the longevity of the coach. For example, Coach D at Arcadia, Coach Mooney at TC, Coach Garrison at Monrovia, Coach Bonds (hold the comments please) at St. Francis, Coach Drain at RHP, and so forth. My contention would be that most of the programs that have struggled in the last couple years are programs that have been unable to secure a consistant Head Coach. That's why RHP has such an advantage over the Poly's, Prep's, Maranatha's, PHS', Blair's, etc. Most of us who either have kids ourselves or work with kids know that laziness festers like a cancer with high schoolers today. They are simply content with being marginal. What's it take to awaken their souls? What's it take for them to believe in something greater than themselves and play for the brother to their left and right (if we find out we should tell the local coaches!).
Most of the schools that have the greatest opportunity to bring home CIF titles every year based on the athlete pool are typically the ones who are in dire need of discipline and encouragment.

And no disrespect SMG. but I would truly enjoy some dialogue with you and some of the other gentlemen who have posted thus far that didn't contain a bash on a school. Let's keep that to the other post.

oh the maryanta bashing is coming just had to get these clowns attention,

1-9 CSDR
1-9 Twin Pines
1-9 Calvary Chapel
0-10 Pasadena Marshall
3-7 Campbell Hall

There should be a limit on how many 1-9 and 0-10 teams you could play in a season or for that fact a decade. Any coach is a .500 coach before you even put on the pads-- what a joke--

New York

The answer is coaching and continuity--don't you think? Maybe having a couple of guys like us that can talk and motivate these kids beyond doing the minimum. Oh yeah, it pays squat. Therein lies a big part of the issue.

good point-- I have been thinking about that-- when was the last time the SGV brought home a CIF title besides- RHP and the miracle Flintridge Prep run in 2001 or 2003-- Have any of the big schools brought home titles in the last decade?

That Finchamp guy seems pretty insightful! If you ask me I think RH Prep would be the dominant team in the SGV (next to St. Francis) if they could manage to retain these kids beyond 6th,7th or 8th grade. With some exceptions, it is too bad many of these kids move away, usually to larger venues but frankly I think most of it is motivated by their parents who are "big-timing" their kids. I have no problem with a Napolitano moving to Damien to start in basketball, but how unfortunate for a kid to leave and play a back up role at Loyola when they might have been a dominant player at the RH Prep level.

What will it take for the traditional top teams in the West SGV to start winning CIF titles?