MORE FOOTBALL: New proposed playoff groupings

I like this info given and it has given me some sort of desire to have success for some reason, so thanks.

Hey how are you doing? I just wanted to stop by and say that it's been a pleasure reading your blog. I have bookmarked your website so that I can come back & read more in the future as well. plz do keep up the quality writing

Does anyone know who the next head coach at Hoover HS will be and is there anyway that there can be a change within the school's success the last couple decades?

Thanks Golden, NY and all. Will be posting these soon. Can't just put all the topics on the table at once. What would we talk about next week? :)

what are the "must have" traits and characteristics of a successful prep head football coach...
..are the traits the same as those you would look for in assistant coaches...who are the best assistant fball coaches in the area? Who is the best line coach and why?

i like the "best facilities" topic.

scott, what are your thoughts?

NY,

You are absolutely right about the possibility of the WSGV bringing home two CIF 'ships. THe more I look at the new Southeast div., the more I get excited about the possibility of our schools doing MAJOR damage the next few years. This is a VERY winnable division.

sfhs 92,

You may be right about a few kids, especially the Milton family, but other than Riley I'm not sure SF has any current players that would've normally attended Muir.

Scott,

NY's topic seems appropriate right now. Some others for the future might include; "best facilities" and how to increase eqaunimity around the SGV, what makes some programs "better" or more succesful than others, how can the SGV enhance it's level of play and subsequently its PR, "best" uniforms, which schools are traditionally known for defense/offense, what team was the best team in WSGV history or which year was the best for all the WSGV schools, just to name a few.

Stang Fan,
Muir surely isn't ducking SF but maybe they are a little aprehensive to play SF after the series ended in the late 90's. After the series ended there were a lot of athletes that would have gone to Muir or PHS end up at SF. This trend seems to still be happening.

Don't know about the extra game. Great idea, but there's three letters that would be against it CIF.

Should've known you'd chime in quickly NY. That was one I thought of too, but I'm at a loss on new ones at this point. Too much else going on to think.

An oldy but goody, especially given the proposed realignment: which team will win the next CIF title? Heck, we may start getting two per year over to the westside with these proposed divisions. Maybe the SGV can establish an athletic commission that would have each SGV disional champ play each other at the end of the season.

Golden and others, what should the next football topic be?

Even with major talents bailing and the head coach position vacant, I still see Monrovia sitting atop any RHL preseason pick board. I base that observation on returning letterman and the solid JV group..I agree with others who have stated losing the QB would not be a season ending setback. That said, maybe the coaching change will bring new direction to the program.
The top challengers to the Wildcats...may be considered unlikely, but it may come from La Canada. I would not expect to see ho-hum from La Canada next season, they have some horses. I think TC will put together a strong defensive unit and start the season with an O-line capable of moving people. What MM has at SM, not sure. He picked up some sideline talent, his former backer coach as well as TC's former JV coach. That has got to help.
Blair's defense was a strong point last year, although the "O" got the headlines. As the returning RHL champion, they might rock as well.

1. charter oak
2. diamond ranch
3t. burroughs
3t. muir
5. south hills
6. wilson
7. arcadia
8. west covina
9. schurr
10. los altos

Unfortunately, a little over five months.

Scott,
How many days until kickoff? Too many for sure.

You're welcome, but what do you think?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Uz8JOlJyQ

Thanks a lot Scott!

All I'll say is Muir and Arcadia should be good, although they both lose outstanding players and leaders. Pasadena loses a bunch, but you never know what the Bulldogs will come up with. San Gabriel and Schurr should be good in the Almont with Alhambra having some holes to fill. The other leagues, I'd say Los Altos, Charter Oak and Diamond Ranch will be really tough teams from the Miramonte League, while South Hills and, maybe, West Covina could pose a lot of problems from the San Antonio. The Wild-cards could be out of the Del Rio with Cal and La Serna.

I don't generally rank the divisions during the regular season, and I don't plan on starting now before spring ball even begins. It's hard enough ranking the area teams. Since you brought it up, what's your top-10. This is your talk show.

No, Scott who do you think is in the top 10?

The CIF does the division rankings.

Scott

Do you have an early top 10 for the new Southeast division?

what are the outcomes of some recent WestSGV VS EastSGV matchups?

Can anyone go back 10 years or so in regards to the Hall of Fame Game?

that was from the LA times blog

Coaches' opinions difffer on proposed All-SGV football division
The Southern Section's proposed All-San Gabriel Valley football playoff division isn't being accepted with open arms by all coaches. A lot of them like the potential of a East-West San Gabriel Valley championship game. Others said they would enjoy the shorter travel distances the grouping would create.

But some look at the proposal as a step down.

Here's what some of the local coaches had to say:

Diamond Ranch Coach Roddy Layton, Miramonte League, which currently competes in the Southwest Division:

"It's kind of cool to say we are San Gabriel Valley champs, but it's hit or miss with me. We don't get a chance to play [Orange County] anymore. Now people will say, 'Yeah, you are San Gabriel Valley champions, but you can't beat Orange County.' I'm not putting down my Valley, I'm a San Gabriel Valley homer, but I have mixed feelings about it."

South Hills Coach Steve Bogan, Miramonte League:

"They change way too much. You don't get a chance to settle. The idea of the two-year deal is to change if it's only a glaring problem, but I don't think there is a glaring problem. My initial reaction was, this division [the Southwest] was working good, why change it?"

Charter Oak Coach Lou Farrar, Miramonte League:

"I think it's great for us in terms of location and gate-wise. People having to drive from Glendora or San Dimas to Trabuco Hills is difficult. I think it looks great. Anything that will help our kids play teams that are more like them is better."

Muir Coach Ken Howard, Pacific League, which currently plays in the Central Division:

"Until they get it right, they'll change. And who's to say they'll ever get it right? It's out of our hands. Do I like it? No I don't like it. Until coaches come together and say we we're tired of it, we have to play who we play."

Pasadena Coach Kevin Mills, Pacific League:

"I like it. It's going to cut down on travel. I think every team that goes into the playoffs has a shot to come out as champions. Definitely that's what I like about it most. Some of the eastern San Gabriel Valley teams don't like to play the western teams. If they are truly as dominant as they like to believe, they'll prove it on the field."

The proposal is not a done deal. It will be up for vote at the Southern Section's general council meeting next month. Coaches have until then to voice their opinions and put together their appeals.

-- Jaime Cardenas

the real hsfbfan,

thanks for the info!

But maybe I'm thinking of the class of '99-'00, didn't Muir win that game with those really good linemen that year?

where do you go to get scores from that far back? i use cal preps for my numbers and they only go back maybe 2 or three years.

stang fan,

I got results off the net.

2000- Arcadia 34- Muir 20
2001- Arcadia 21- Muir 14

In 2001 CV won league outright.

2000 Arcadia beat Muir at Arcadia.
2001 Arcadia got Muir at Muir that year in a close one.

O'Hara and Martin transferred and played at Muir in 2001. Richard Irvin subsequently went to Muir when Clarkson was the OC. Irvin then went to Tulane but transferred to Harvard.

Huckster- wish we had people with your spirit in Burbank.
Stang Fan- You're right. We should go after the ESGV. They are already thinking the Pacific is nothing. Knoop at Burroughs has been planning for this change for a couple of years.
Burbank's Softball team is 7-0 against the ESGV. Oh did I forget to say "mighty" esgv.
Hey Huckster- maybe we should hang a Pacific League banner on the Eastern side of the 605 freeway?

the real hsfbfan,

I could be mistaken, but didn't Muir beat Arcadia in 2000 and/or 2001?

Huckster,

I keep mentioning the finals because of the division we now play in. We can most certainly compete with and beat the likes of Charter Oak, South Hills, Los Altos, D-Ranch, etc. Those are the teams to beat in this new division and we can definitely do just that. That is reality, not propaganda.

As far as which team did better last year, we'll just have to agree to disagree or we'll just go in complete circles. There is no way I'll ever believe that you guys had a better year just because you won one little playoff game, while we went undefeated in league and beat you guys again in the Bowl. That's just ludicrous.

Anyhow, I'm sure people are tired of reading our attacks on each other, and I know I am begining to. I think a more suitable foe would be.......the ESGV!!! New York is right. Those cats think they've got this thing locked up, but which one of those schools in the Miramonte or the San Antonio have ever had to face the likes of Notre Dame or Colony in the playoffs? They've been hiding in those weak-a$$ divisions FOREVER!!! Have we fared well in our tougher divisions? No, we haven't. But I will say we are primed and ready to take on any former "D-7" champs. BTW, have any of Bishop Amat's "red-headed stepchildren" (aka the rest of the ESGV) ever won a Division 1 or 2 championship before? I swear I can't wait to play those dudes!

Huck,

You made a great point about Muir. SAdly, The last Pacific league team to play in a semi final game was 1997 when Arcadia played arroyo grande.

Arcadia beat muir 1998 thru 2003 and thereafter muir has taken them 2004 thru current. The 9-7 arcadia 3 OT lost in 2006 was one of the best games played for a while.

Muir was supposed be all that and some cracker Jacks back in 2002 when they picked QB Richard Irvin from Harvard Westlake and the next year they picked up Ryan O'Hara and Jason Martin from Monrovia and both years they lost to Arcadia.

look for a prep league team to make a deep run in the Northeast division playoffs especially with Maranantha and two-time defending champion St. Margerets being moved up divisions

Stang Fan,

A matter of fact, since your riding on your high horse and the “STANGS” are so mighty! When was the last time Muir played in a semi finial game to even think about a championship that you keep talking about? EXACTLY! That’s why your post are so full of “PROPAGANDA” smarty pants! I guess we're both living in the past!

Bubanksports,

Watch, what you’re “typing”! When your calling me confused, because no white man, in a suit and tie on TV can tell me something and I believe it! Reverend “Wright” was right! If you misspelled a word I could give a rat’s tail! I’m not like these dummies on here trying to correct you. You from “Burbank” so how ever you spell a word is correct! We beat “Burroughs” and “Burbank” so don’t for get that!

Stang Fan,

What have the “Stangs” done lately? Got that a$$ whipped in the first round by a lower seeded team! We finished the year better than yawl! Point blank! You’re living in the past! Muir beat PHS and PHS had more yardages in the game! My point is, we went father in the playoffs, so our season was more successful! That’s the bottom line! Next year is here and I’ll be talking even more, ready for the Dogs to end the streak! I want to hear all you Mule fans say, “Well it’s about time!” I will not let yawl off the hook that easy and we can get that $100.00 bet back! I know who you are!

SMILE It’s Huckster!!!!!

The vibe on the Trib blog seems to be saying the Valle Vista teams will feast on Mid-Valley opponents. It would be great if a number of SGV teams could break out next season and kick some A- -, and in the process gain some respect.
It may take more than that though - because it seems fairly deep rooted (legit or not).
TC has some strong tough kids and some good "hands" talent upcoming, but though I wish I could say otherwise, I don't envision a CIF kinda year in 08. (Please prove me wrong kids) It is hard to say where the Wildcats roster will end up, Blair, how good will they be?
They best thing is at least now there will be games played to cut back on the bullshit talk...this gives us the chance to step up and earn respect - I believe that can happen.
Last year Paraclete learned that Monrovia has a bite behind their bark. La Puente found out TC could hit, and not quit. The Rams quieted their crowd.
I know it was no statement, and also that the dwindling talent pool remains an issue. Still, I look forward to the outcome
and possibilities.

synonymous- sorry for the mispelling. Don't want to confuse Huckster.

The people on Fred's board are so arrogant that they think the proposed divisions are simply giving ESGV schools guaranteed CIF titles.

I can't wait for Monrovia to get back on track. I think we will make a deep run despite our transfer situation (as long as our search committee does not drop the ball). I hope Tip and Backus are doing their thing at Blair and TC, respectively.

Muir's game against DR this fall could be an early glimpse of the CIF semi-finals. I also think that Arcadia, Burroughs and PHS should do well on a more consistent basis relative to past years.

While I have mixed feelings about moving the CIF championship closer to an "Area" championship and much further from a "State" championship, I am looking forward to the West vs East match-ups we have been craving for years.

Speaking of State Championships, I think that insulating ourselves by area will give less support for one of our teams to ever make a state bowl. If we don't ever compete against OC, IE or Ventura/San Luis Obispo teams, then how can local (WSGV and ESGV) teams make a claim for the state bowl?

I was talking about history when describing the "strength" of the Pacific League.
When the Burbank schools were moving to the Pacific-the SCV folks mentioned one school as synonomous with Pacific League and that was Muir.
To win the Pacific-you have to go through Muir.
Sorry Huckster-Pasadena had a nice playoff run, but lost to Muir.
The big game in the Pacific next season..Burroughs vs Muir.

Huckster,

Here's something to really laugh about. PHS has won all of ONE playoff game in 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's right 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How in the world do your figure that one, single, solitary, individual playoff win in a DECADE earns you the right to be the "strength of the league." Now that is effing HYSTERICAL!!!

Burbanksports, you hit the nail on the head bro. When it comes to consistency, and not one-hit wonder status, Muir and Arcadia are the strength of the league. PHS wins one measly game and Huck thinks that HS is the power of the league. Like they always say, "ignorance is bliss."

Huck, I just know that our deep playoff run this coming season will burn you to your core. You talk a great game, which really only works to bury the deep pain you have within when you see Muir succeed. You guys haven't beaten us in.....well, forever, and you will not beat us in the foreseeable future. And what hurts you most is that you know its true. Its a fact. But, as usual, you'll continue to come on here and pop off as always about how you guys will end the streak and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's sounds good, I swear the way you articulate it bro, it definitely SOUNDS good. But that's it. It's not reality. Reality for the dawgs over the last quarter century ends with phs driving back to sierra madre blvd. with their tails between their legs screaming, "next year, man, we'll beat them for sure next year!" After 25 years that same old line just gets tired bro. But I guess if you are on the short end of the stick, like you guys ALWAYS are, "next year" IS really all you've got.

Burbanksports,
How in the world could you say, “the strength of the league is Arcadia and Muir”? Pasadena went farther than everyone in the Pacific league. We should have gone to the finials! we missed the 2 point conversion and we would have went to the finials. Other than PHS, “Burroughs” was the only team to play tough in the playoffs.

Stang Fan,
You make me seem smart, by mentioning “Muir” and “Finials”! Don’t make me laugh!!!!

ESGV fans,
I really think it will be interesting to see these match ups come playoff time, but as far as whipping on us time will tell!
Huckster!!!!!!

Come to the ESGV and get worked. Just like in the all star games. Makes sense? I sure think so.

This realignment may be the best thing for the more talented areas of the WSGV. I'm looking forward to Monrovia vs. Covina and Muir vs. Charter Oak. I'm excited for Monrovia's outlook going forward. I will not be surprised if we get bumped into the other SGV division in two years.

throttled, WORKED, CAPS, no caps, Unon, anon

so many different statements from one bored dude

Todd Golper, LB from Arcadia just got rated as the #201 player in the nation and 4 star prospect on Rivals.

SGV FAN,

Thanks for starting exactly what I knew would be a result of this divisional change. Guys from the ESGV coming over to the WSGV blog to start sh**!!! Perfect. Bring it on!!!

BTW, I see you took Muir out of your second post, any reason for that?

And when was anyting "east of the 605" something to fear? It's not the Santa Clarita Valley, the IE, and it certainly isn't the OC. Trust me, I'm not saying we are, or ever will be either, but don't act like the ESGV is some sort of super power, bro.

I'm fired up that we can play these schools now. Many people in Pasadena have been clamoring for our schools to play CO, SH, LA, DR, etc. because quite a few of our very own, as well as some from Monrovia/Duarte, go to some of those schools. Now the question can be answered...who is the best in the SGV?

Dreamer...party of 1...Dreamer....

ENOUGH WITH THE ARCADIA AND PASADENA NONSENSE.

BRING EITHER OF THOSE SCHOOLS EAST OF THE 605 AND THEY'LL GET WORKED

ENOUGH WITH THE ARCADIA, MUIR, PASADENA NONSENSE.

BRING EITHER OF THOSE SCHOOLS EAST OF THE 605 AND THEY GET WORKED!

Fred's idea of swapping the Olympic league with the Camino Real league in the Mid-Valley makes sense. It would really fuel some good local games with the Mission Valley league entering the Mid-Valley division.

Is anyone at the CIF listening????

Confused -

I believe Santa Clara and Bishop Diego will move to the Tri-Valley league, and the bottom two teams in the Tri-Valley will move the to Frontier league. It is how they work things in that conference. Someone may want to confirm. Which raises another question - any word on league realignments?

I like most of the re-alignments, but I'm a little confused on the East Valley one. How in the world would the Frontier league be essentially dropped a division when both Bishop Diego and Santa Clara went to the championship? Number wise, they would be going from division 11 to 12? Are these two schools getting bumped up into another league? Did I miss something?

Stang Fan
I don't think you can really look at these divisions like the former I, II, etc...
Look at the Western Division...let's say SF is the most dominant team (i know, i know) would SF roll through the Northern or the new Central? Not likely.

To see Muir and the Pacific League drop from Division II in the late 80's and early/mid 90's, to Division III from the mid/late 90's and mid 2000's, to Division V the last two years, and now to Division VII, is a tough pill to swallow. However, like most pills this proposed change will do the schools some good.

THe population shift hasn't affected any area as negatively as it has the SGV, in terms of football talent. During their heydays Muir, Arcadia, PHS, and CV were pretty tough to handle. Muir's population was nearly slashed in half, Aracdia's demographics changed drastically, and Lord knows what happened to phs and CV.

But with this new change also comes new hope. A hope that we will see some of our local schools head deep into the playoffs (essentially after Thanksgiving) for the first time in awhile. With any amount of success, you never know, the schools could turn it around and maybe sometime in the future they can climb back up to the upper-tier divisions.

I will say this though....I am crazy excited to play the likes of Charter Oaks, South Hills, Los Altos, D Ranch, etc. It can be settled once and for all who the best programs in the valley are (minus the private schools who compete in other divisions). And hopefully with some "W's" over the ESGV schools in the playoffs, we can stop many of our athletes (especially in Pasadena/Altadena and Monrovia/Duarte) from venturing over to the eastside.

Southeast Finals 2008:

Charter Oak vs. Muir

The only teams I see as being a real threat in the Mid Valley to Monrovia if this were to fall through are Rosemead, maybe Duarte, Paraclete, and San Dimas. Granted that's a lot tougher than previous years. The competition will be more dense than previous years, that is there will be tougher teams but not as many of them.

Are you kidding? Camino Real in Southeast? No way will the likes of La Salle be able to compete at the Div. 7 level.

To the SF Fan who said Muir is ducking SF,

Uh, yeah...we are ducking the tremendous So Cal power that is the G-Knights to schedule pansies like Oaks Christian and Venice. Why don't you guys focus on "throttling" teams on your schedule, like Arcadia and Burroughs. You know, the schools that you went 1-1 against, and were very close to going 0-2 against. Oh and by the way Muir actually "throttled" BOTH schools which lead Coach Knoops of Burroughs to say Muir was by far the toughest team they'd faced all year.

"Ducking" SF....what a joke!

IS THIS BETTER OR WORSE FOR THE PREP LEAGUE?

you must go to an ALL BOYS SCHOOOL!!!

WHO USES THE WORD THROTTLE!!!

ITS the 21ST CENTURY OUTSIDE THE CONFESSIONAL... I MEAN BUBBLE....!!!!

NEWS FLASH!!!

ST FRANCIS would be FOURTH PLACE IN THE PACIFIC LEAGUE!!!

Arcadia beat St. Francis...

Muir and Burroughs both beat ARCADIA.

Quit living in the past St Francis... you cant BUY TALENT anymore!!

go to calpreps.com to check out the teams in the leagues

I would like to see the Pacific and the Mission in the same division, so St Francis could throttle Muir. Stop ducking us!

I agree Frank. It would be interesting to see the Pacific and Rio Hondo work a system like the tri-valley league has...where teams are moved around based on success.
You are right about Burroughs that's where all the talent in Burbank is headed.

burroughs as well, burbank sports. remember, in the playoffs burroughs played eventual champion colony very tough until the end losing by something like 3 points or so.

both burbank schools seem to give arcadia fits, but i see burroughs remaining very strong for years to come.

i would still like to see the pacific and rio hondo leagues mash up a little. trade glendale/hoover for monrovia/temple city and we've got 10 games on arcadia's slate that will make for one hell of a season. actually lynwood needs to be changed out also, bring back bell gardens, now that they are in our division.

As solid and competitive as La Salle is...they will have a huge task competing against Oak Park, the Torrance schools, etc....
The Pacific would be a better fit for that division. The Pacific gets its strength from Muir and Arcadia (Arcadia would have trouble with Oak Park).
Then again the League itself needs to be revised. Muir and Arcadia fit the Southeast very well and that makes for some good matchups.

burbank-why should the pacific be in the NW that doesn't make any sense

The Pacific should be in the Northwest and the Camino Real in the Southeast.

It should be fun watching West vs. East SGV teams competing. I too would like to see La Salle playing against the locals. The proposal is very similar to the old division 10 (Del Rey, Los Padres, Pioneer).

I hope La Salle files an appeal regarding the proposed alignment - the Northwest division streches from Morro Bay to Torrance, and covers Los Angeles, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo counties. I thought the Mid-Valley was a good fit for La Salle, as it was great for local football.

I think I need to send the CIF a map. The geographic border between Northern and Southern California is the Tehachipi Mountains, above Santa Barbara. Some of the leagues in the Northwest division are in Northern California, geographically speaking.

When I saw these grouping I felt for La Salle. This is a nightmare for them. Not only is it a much more difficut division, but it takes all the fun out of playing other area teams in the playoffs, which the Mid Valley gave them with the Rio Hondo and Montview. The Monrovia-La Salle playoff game was one of the most exciting games I covered in the five years I was there. Maybe the Camino Real could swap with the Olympic. Then it would really be on.

Will there be league realignments? If La Salle goes to the Northwest Division, they will be with Oaks Christian (Tri-Valley), Santa Clara (soon to be Tri-Valley, not to mention seeing Cierre Wood again), Morro Bay and Nipomo (Los Padres), Torrance and North Torrance (Pioneer), not to mention potential playoff drives to Nipomo, Morro Bay, Carpinteria, and Santa Maria. Say it isn't true, or at least some of the league alignments will change.