SOFTBALL: What should this week's rankings look like?

I realise this isn't a very good comment but it made me smile!

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

Hey MHawk,

I am TC FAN...you don't have to be a fan of Temple City to consider them in the running this year. I think that chkyrslf and john f. know what's really going on out there on all those softball fields and are just giving credit where credit's due. And yes, Temple City does have self respect...speak for yourself, please. Telling your opinion...that's what this forum is for, right??

Believe it or not, I am objective.

Chk…It’s a little like a train wreck, you just have to look. Maybe you should take a closer look at the garbage you post. Then you might understand how one could assume you might have at least a slight preference for Temple City. Here are some comments you left regarding TC just in this thread:
“I agree with you on the pitching but TC seems to do it as a team and that is even more impressive.’
‘I would say that TC should get the benefit of the doubt at this point.’
‘TC doesn't play Averno or Sacred Heart but I believe that they are a better team than either one.’
‘Look at TC's schedule and record this year. Alverno may be as good as them, but you will never know, because no one in their league really challenges them’
‘My top ten changes would be:
1. Temple City’
Do you have any self respect?

Mhawk,

I am not a TC fan, and the ratings are relative, but one thing I do know is that you will be chkng regularly to see what I say.

Question for chkyrslf...will you be up waiting for the life changing weekly Star News high school softball rankings to be released? Actually it's a two part question...if TC is not ranked #1 will you need to be sedated and restrained?

MS,

First of all, never feel bad about agreeing with me, it is the right thing to do.

Second, I don't know about your assessment, TC went the furthest last year of all area teams after being ranked behind Alverno, Arcadia and Monrovia all year. They are the same team, I don't believe they lost anybody, and they are 10 - 3 against the best competition that anyone in the area has played (except for maybe SP) and they seem to be on a great roll. Believe me if Arcadia or Monrovia had the same team as last year they would undoubtedly be #1 with a record like TC's.

I would not give any creedance to a scrimmage score. You never know what coaches are trying.

I agree with you on the pitching but TC seems to do it as a team and that is even more impressive.

chkyrslf, Although I agree often with your opinions (I don’t know if that’s a good thing … ha, ha), on this discussion there is no need for leaving it up to “the benefit of the doubt”. Although TC doesn’t play Alverno or Sacred Heart this season, and although it doesn’t count in the records, Sacred Heart beat both TC and La Salle in a 3-way doubleheader the weekend before the season. That is a much better indicator than leaving it up to “the benefit of the doubt”. TC is certainly a good team, but there are several times they have struggled against good pitching. TC’s pitching is not the same level as either Alverno’s and Sacred Heart’s pitching. Pitching most typically dominates, and TC is not better than Alverno or Sacred Heart.

Also, TC splitting with LC more lessens their ranking, than raises it. It is my opinion, although LC deserves a lot of credit and has improved, I believe LC’s league record is more a temporary anomaly and is more attributable to the Rio Hondo league being a much weaker league this season, especially as compared to the last couple of seasons. LC has barely squeaked by with a few of their wins in a few games, and they’ve convincingly lost to good non-league teams like Sacred Heart. Although it’s not reflected in their record to date, SP is TC’s only meaningful competition in the Rio Hondo League this season and I believe in the end it will come down to those 2 teams in the Rio Hondo. Although TC’s, SP’s, and LC’s league is no where near as weak as Alverno’s league, it is not as strong as Sacred Heart’s league.

1. Alverno
2. Flintridge Sacred Heart
3. Temple City
4. La Canada
5. South Pasadena (by season end they’ll move ahead of LC, and it will be between them and TC)
6. LaSalle
7. Arcadia
8. Keppel
9. Gabrielino
10. Maranantha

I would say that TC should get the benefit of the doubt at this point. They are basically the same team as they were last year who lost to El Segundo in the third round of the playoffs and although LC is clearly better this year than they were last year, they still have plenty to prove. 9-3 after TC seeing them one time is a pretty decisive victory. It is on LC to come back and beat them the next time in the rubber match.

TC doesn't play Averno or Sacred Heart but I believe that they are a better team than either one. If Sacred Heart can do it through league they have an argument but I am not sure what to do with Alverno, their schedule is weak and I don't believe they can beat TC.

TC split with LC.

What did TC do against Alverno and Sacred Heart

Did any of them play today?

On the rankings...don't forget TC beat the undefeated LC last week! :)

John F.,

I will add that often times "low level" travel teams lose players who move up in the ranks to find high level ball, and the kids who can move up should move up. But, kids should take pride in any travel team that they play with because all levels require a greater commitment. Often times low level teams will face some higher level teams in the course of tournaments and that experience alone can move kids forward.

The only part of your post that I disagree with is that the low level teams are just above rec-ball. Just going through the process and facing different teams will add to a kids motivation and discipline and should put them well beyond most rec ball players. That being said, individual kids; rec, travel, or whatever are going to have their ups and downs in HS ball. HS is a much more socially pressured world and different kids react differently to that pressure, experience aside.

I will also add that some low level teams, and I am not saying this about the afformentioned teams because I do not know how they do things, end up burning kids out because they end up replacing knowledge with time, work, and hours spent on meaningless repetition.

The top teams do not practice that much, but when they do it is meaningful and hard. The kids are expected to be prepared on their own with private batting and pitching lessons. The real lessons on the Gold level happen at game time and during the recruiting periods. It is very difficult for kids to produce when they know they are being watched.

Just a very big point of references, there are dramatic differences in the level of play in travel ball.

Top Level (the 64 national teams that every year routinely qualify for ASA 18U-Gold nationals in OK): examples, Choppers, Worth Firecrakers, OC Batbusters, Corona Angeles

Mid-Level (teams that compete in ASA 18U-Gold but seldom, if ever, qualify for ASA 18U-Gold nationals in OK): examples, Rage, Sierre Madre Pride, Sliderz, Strike Force

Bottom Level (teams that are slighty better than Rec. Ball type of play, and typically don't play in ASA tournament ... they typically play in local "Friendlies" or Triple Crown, USAAA, AFA, NSA tournaments): examples, Ringers, Velocity, Camotion

A High School team with a single "Top Level" pitcher will typically dominate a team of 9 "Low Level" travel ball players.

RD,

That's a pretty good question. If that were to be done, I would include in that survey how many all-cif, all-league, and all-area players are travel players.
It would also be nice to see how many travel ball players are on the teams in the CIF dominant areas,(OC, South Bay, inland empire,and so on) compared to our area which typically gets knocked out of CIF in the first couple of rounds.

I'm sure there are a ton of travel players on the top teams, just as the case is in soccer with club players.

chkyrslf, those weren't actual new rankings, those were last week's rankings with notes I added so people could chime in with their own top 10. The real rankings will come in Wednesday's paper.

Scott I would like you to run a survey on how many travel players per team are on the teams in your top ten, thanks for listening

Scott,

By the way nice job on the ratings. I don't think it is possible to get it right, because you are forced to compare apples and oranges. But, the names and the details are what people are looking for. Hopefully some of these teams follow up with quality stats for leaderboards.

wow

Thanks MS.

To answer the previous questions:

Jess Ferri’s last game was a perfect-no-hitter (15 strikeouts in 7 innings).

Each of the 2 games before that she pitched two 1-walk-no-hitters (12 strikeouts in a 5 inning mercy, and 15 strikeouts in a 6 inning mercy).

Jess Ferri has pitched 100% of Sacred Hearts innings in their 8 regular season games and 2 pre-season games this season.

In Sacred Heart’s split with #1 Alverno, in the two games she pitched 28 strikeouts.

I have the same problem with stats at the Tribune, but started posting leaders anyway. I'm hoping it puts the pressure on others to do the same. I've already had parents call and complain, and I say, tell your head coach, he's the one you need to blame. It's starting to help, slowly but surely.

If you haven't noticed I am a pretty big fan of softball, so I try to stay objective.

Look at TC's schedule and record this year. Alverno may be as good as them, but you will never know, because no one in their league really challenges them, and they are pretty much done with high quality opponents until CIF except for La Canada at the end, who is a pretty good young team.

chkyrslf ...you forgot to mention you're not a TC fan. RIGHT!!! "WhoCares" anyway?

Chkyrslf, I understand and appreciate what you're saying. I don't feel comfortable running a leaders page when there are so many schools that aren't posting stats. It's not just one or two. Also, let me re-phrase so there's no misunderstanding, it's not that I don't care about travel ball, I am fully aware of how big it is. What I was saying is that in terms of judging players, I don't care if a player is tearing up travel ball. We only go by what they do on the prep softball diamond. Sorry if it came across wrong. All-Area, for example, as was the case in soccer, will be based on how well they play in high school, not the fact that a player is lights out on the travel ball field. I hope this makes sense.

Scott,

The use of the word punish was not meant to sound so deep, but I think if you publish them once and put them out there in a big way, coaches will come running with stats. And it would be somewhat of a reward to programs that are doing it right.

I get that you don't care about club, because high school is what you cover, but we call it "travel ball" and because of the fact that these kids only get college recruited from travel ball I think people should be aware of what some of these kids are doing. I know that at the end of last year there were people confused about certain players with good numbers and quality skills, but no chance of playing college ball, especially on a D1 level. People should know that as high school ball is winding down, the travel players are starting to practice on Sundays and getting geared up for a very intense softball heavy summer, and kids that play on the 18 gold level will probably play the same amount of games as high school in the first month after and continue to play in at least 100 games in 3 or 4 states with and against all of the future college greats.

I am not saying that they are better athletes, I am saying that it requires a hell of a lot to get there. And although these kids do not always pan out in high school, these are the kids that can alone change the quality of their hs team if they share their experience properly and I think people should be aware of who they are and what they do.

No, not posting the leaders is not because of punishing anyone. It's because of integrity. Say Ferri, for example, is the leading pitcher in the area, how does it help by putting in leaders and not having her in it? To me, there would be no credibility to the leaders, so I'd rather not do them. There are quite a bit of schools, both baseball and softball that, for some reason, don't post stats. And, again, I'm sure all these girls are great in club, but all I'm concerned about is how they do on their HS team.

Scott,

I haven't seen Ferri pitch for Sacred Heart this year but from what I understand she is the only one throwing and there were no hits in 3 of the games she has pitched. They should put in their stats so you would know.

I have only seen her pitch in travel ball and her speed and pitch command is magnificent. She is the only pitcher in our area, I believe, that is pitching for that high of a level of 18 Gold travel ball. She was on Gary Haning's team, OC Batbusters and even though she wasn't the starter it takes quite a bit to make that squad.

She is the kind of pitcher that on her own makes their team viable, like Escamilla did before some of her new found talent. Without her, from what I understand, FSH would have nothing.
Tologs should comment.But from what I hear in certain circles, she will be signing with a major D1 program this summer.

I understand your reasons for not putting in the leaders, but it seems like you are somewhat punishing the right for the sins of the wrong.

How many teams do you need to have enough to compile leaders? Certainly you aren't waiting for all of them?

Great question, chkyrself: I'll tell you why not post stats and hope the rest start reporting. The main reason is that it truly isn't a list of leaders. Last year when we posted baseball, one of the top hitters was alway left out because St. Francis doesn't like to make stats public. Or at least they didn't last season. To me, it's not worth the time to post a false list since it takes a good couple of hours to put together per sport. Once it's worth the time of the coaches to post all their stats, I'll be more than happy to put forth the time. In terms of Ferri, unless she pitches every innning of every game, how am I supposed to know that she even pitched in that game since it shows no stats for FSHA. The game also only went five innings, so it's not a true no-hitter, such as Dylan Covey's five-inning no-hitter a couple of weeks ago. Immaculate Sacred Heart is 4-6, Westridge 3-5 and Flintridge Prep 5-3. FHSA's toughest road is ahead in league. A comparison, by the way, Ellingsworth went six innings and allowed six hits in 6-3 loss to Los Altos. Escamilla allowed six hits and struck out 10 in a 1-0 loss to Los Altos.

Scott,

Checking on Max Preps game statistics (clicking on the score) it shows that Ferri had a No-Hitter against Immaculate Heart (1 walk) and a Perfect Game against Westridge. It was shut out againt Flintridge Prep but I am not sure if it was a no hitter. Can a Tolog fan help out?

Do you see any quality games that Keppel has played, do you think they could actually compete with some of the TC's and Alverno's ? I mean the toughest team they played is Garfield who tied and lost to Mayfield.

Why not post the reported stat leaders and the rest may then start reporting?

My top ten changes would be:

1. Temple City
2. Alverno
3. Flintridge Sacred Heart
4. La Canada
5. LaSalle
6. South Pasadena
7. Arcadia
8. Maranantha
9. Keppel
10. Gabrielino