***CIF Football Rankings: Blame the coaches, media
***(UPDATED 3:12 p.m.)
Just got off the phone with CIF Spokesman Thom Simmons. Here's how he explained the voting process:
The 36 members in the coaches advisory committee as well as an at-large member from each league and members of daily media organization (such as the Los Angeles Times, Daily News, Daily Breeze and Orange County Register) vote on a 10-point system to determine the weekly divisional rankings.
The ballot (which I've never received nor voted on while working here or at The Register) is sent out every Monday morning. The votes are tallied to determine the top 10.
So if Rosemead beat Monrovia handily why are the Panthers still four spots behind the Wildcats?
"It's just like the BCS poll," Simmons said. "If you lose early in the year you have a chance to come back. Monrovia lost that game early.
"Voters tend keep teams in those slots (so) it's better to lose early than to lose late."
Monrovia went on to beat Beckman, La Salle, Temple City and South Pasadena while Rosemead lost to Harvard-Westlake, beat Temple City and then lost to South Hills.
So what's the deal if the Panthers played against much tougher competition?
"Those are quality losses," Simmons said. "I'm not going to dispute that at all. They've played arguably a tougher schedule, but voters tend to take you where you are at that point; that's why it's easier if you lose early and tougher when you lose later."
As noted earlier, if the season ended today the top four-ranked teams would essentially become the top four seeds in the division.
Votes by coaches and media are kept anonymous. If you think this voting process is wrong and want to voice your concern or frustration e-mail Thom Simmons at thoms@cifss.org
So Stang Fan, yes, if San Gabriel finished as the No. 1 team in the final top 10 rankings they were given the No. 1 seed. The final top four-ranked teams earn seedings and protected in the playoffs with either a bye and/or home field advantage in the early round of the playoffs. The rest of the teams are based on where they finished in their respective league.
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Here are the latest CIF-Southern Section Divisional rankings.
Are you as bothered as I am when you look at the Mid-Valley Division rankings?
They are mind boggling considering Rosemead beat Monrovia handily, yet the Panthers are ranked four spots behind the Wildcats at No. 7. (No knock on the Wildcats, but come on!)
The Star-News rankings are fun to look at. It measures the local teams against the rest of the area. But at the end of the day they carry little weight.
But the CIF rankings determine playoff seedings and it is why those polls should be as accurate as possible.
I put in a call to the CIF-Southern Section and I'm waiting to hear back from them.
Have your say. Here's mine:
WESTERN DIVISION (III)
1. Palmdale; 2. Alemany; 3. Quartz Hill; 4. Santa Monica; 5. Warren; 6. St. Francis; 7. St. Paul; 8. Mira Costa; 9. Eastside; 10. Leuzinger.
Thoughts: This looks about right. Friday's Mission League opener for the Golden Knights will be key if they wish to hold on to the No. 6 spot. Next week will be tougher when St. Francis plays host to No. 2 Alemany. I'll be there on assignment.
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SOUTHEAST DIVISION (VII)
1. South Hills, 2. Charter Oak, 3. California, 4. Santa Fe, 5. Muir, 6. La Serna, 7. Crescenta Valley, 8. Rowland, 9. West Covina, 10. Bonita.
Thoughts: Same here. Can't complain about the rankings. They are spot on though you can argue Muir should be No. 3. Crescenta Valley a little high?
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MID-VALLEY DIVISION (XI)
1. San Dimas, 2. Cerritos Valley Christian, 3. Monrovia, 4. Azusa, 5. San Marino, 6. Northview, 7. Rosemead, 8. Paraclete, 9. Workman, 10. Pomona.
Thoughts: No way Rosemead is No. 7. They're getting robbed. The Panthers should be at least No. 3 but don't be surprised if they suddenly rise to the No. 2 spot, which is where they belong.
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EAST VALLEY DIVISION (XII)
1. St. Margaret's, 2. Marantha, 3. Brentwood, 4. Twentynine Palms, 5. Aquinas, 6. Fillmore, 7. Desert, 8. Santa Paula, 9. Malibu, 10. Big Bear.
Thoughts: Ah yes, the Maranatha always in St. Margaret's rear view mirror. Tartans vs. Minutemen in the finals.
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NORTHEAST DIVISION (XIII)
1. Saddleback Valley Christian; 2; Riverside Christian; 3. Boron; 4. Linfield Christian; 5. St. Genevieve; 6. Bell-Jeff; 7. Fairmont Prep; 8. Rio Hondo Prep; 9. Pasadena Poly; 10. Chadwick.
Thoughts: The Kares have played a tougher schedule than Bell-Jeff and Fairmont Prep. They should be at least No. 6 after almost knocking off Maranatha and Brentwood.
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About this blog
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Melendez worked as a correspondent for the San Gabriel Valley Tribune for three years and later landed a job as a freelance writer at the Los Angeles Times before accepting an offer at The Orange County Register covering high schools. Melendez covered Major League Soccer at The Register for three years before being promoted to report on the Lakers, Angels and Dodgers for the Web. Melendez also worked for the Daytona Beach News-Journal, Fresno Bee, Oakland Tribune and The Boston Globe. E-mail opinions, suggestions and tips to miguel.melendez@sgvn.com. |
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NORTHEAST DIVISION Fillmore St. Margaret's finals
Santa Paula who?
THE TIME HAS COME------------------ROSEMEAD PANTHERS HAVE A GREAT PAST----------The many years of rebuilding is finally paying off.......ITS OUR TIME................GO PANTHERS.............
Answer this question. Is there any team in the South East Divsion Playing better than Burroughs is right now? They have a Dominate Running Back Dominique Barnes that has Broken most league and school records. He is very close to cracking the 2,000 yard mark that has not been accomplished by any back in this division. He is the Real Deal. Burroughs losses were at the time Barnes was hurt and coming back. They should be ranked much higher than Cresenta Valley. C.V. lost teribly to Muir and Burroughs only lost by 3points. Whats the deal?
Answer this question. Is there any team in the South East Divsion Playing better than Burroughs is right now? They have a Dominate Running Back Dominique Barnes that has Broken most league and school records. He is very close to cracking the 2,000 yard mark that has not been accomplished by any back in this division. He is the Real Deal. Burroughs losses were at the time Barnes was hurt and coming back. They should be ranked much higher than Cresenta Valley. C.V. lost teribly to Muir and Burroughs only lost by 3points. Whats the deal?
Santa Paula deserves to be in the top 2 for sure! They beat Fillmore who is still ranked ahead of them. They are rolling on a 5 game win streak. What else could you ask?
Santa Paula deserves to be in the top 2 for sure! They beat Fillmore who is still ranked ahead of them. They are rolling on a 5 game win streak. What else could you ask?
Santa Paula deserves to be in the top 2 for sure! They beat Fillmore who is still ranked ahead of them. They are rolling on a 5 game win streak. What else could you ask?
The St Francis- St Paul game lived upto to all the hype great fun heart stopping game, St Paul much better team than their record indicates. The Golden Knights have a great defence but their offence needs to step up if they want to beat Alemany for league title this friday
Miguel,
Great job! The info is MUCH appreciated, I never knew exactly what the process was, thanks.
Although CIF would never publicize this, it would be VERY interesting to know who exactly are the 36 coaches, the league reps, and the media members who comprise the voters of the polls. Does anyone from the PSN, Tribune, or the Whittier Daily News have a vote? It would be very odd to have people voting on two SGV CIF divisions, like the SE and the MV, when they have never seen ANY of these teams play. Maybe you and Robledo can find out how to break into these voting polls.
As far as Mr. Simmons comment about losses later in the season...didn't Muir lose to Oaks Christian in Week 1 (2nd game), while South Hills lost to La Habra in Week 2? So not only did the Stangs lose earlier in the season, but they also lost to a higher quality opponent.....and Charter Oaks hasn't even lost yet.
It is a difficult process, and each playoff team has got to get through the best to win the 'ship, but the CIF polls do seem a bit unfair and can possibly use some retooling. Not that it will mean much, but I'll send an email Mr. Simmons way.
I agree with CoachesCorner. Once we smack Rosemead around the the playoffs, Monrovia's ranking will be more justified. Until then, we will just have to take the pollsters' word for it.
Rosemead does deserve better than 7th in the Mid Valley rankings. Koffler I am sure has these guys thinking on game at a time to claim that number one spot at the end!
Fred
Wow looks like our Bruins might be stealing another kid from Hawaii(Norm Chow recruit).I know Our Bruin family has taken a lot of abuse these last few weeks but there is light at the end of the tunnel, its just a little longer of a tunnel.But it is still good to see us out recruiting these other schools and having these kids re-commit to Bruin Football About that MEAD vs CATS match up a few weeks ago.I do agree Rosemead was the better Team that night.But we also took the lead that 3rd quarter 21-14 .3 turnovers later you have your result.Only meaning the game was a lot closer then the final.Sorry just had to defend Fred's assesment of our CRUSHING(another low blow Fred wait till we see you in Cerritos).Anyways does Rosemead deserve to have a better ranking then #7 No question about it.I think its a joke.Its only right haven beating us they should be ahead of us.I think they are definitely one of the ones to beat. Having either seen first hand or heard second, San Dimas and Rosemead are the class of the Division. Those Teams will absolutely roll through their leagues.Which only means your going to have beat one of them to get to the Final.Then beat the other one to win the thing.No Problem ?? But that I guess is what makes Playoff Football so beautiful.Look playing MEAD first hand We know if we were to see them again we are going to have to strap it on and come ready to play hard nosed Football all 4 quarters .Rosemead is as physical as they come around the valley (ask South Hills).Look can't wait to get into all this CIF poll B/S later.Look it doesn't matter where the heck your ranked.Win league.Get a home game first round.Away you go.Like they say"the cream will always rise to the top"or something like that.Talk to you Eastsiders in a few weeks for Season 3...Holla back Freddie!
Go Cats
Go Bruins
I know its still footballl but here is something another stang that is making the headlines. Miguel keep your eye on her! She is ranked 22 in the nation wow!!!!
Click the link to seethe area best ball. its an article by espn!
Battle of the Pacific Bottom-
Hoover 0
Burbank 7
2nd quarter
I've said it many times before the Mead gets no love!!!!
!!!FEAR THE MEAD!!!!WAR PANTHERS!!!!
Muir has even impressed me this year,but under this coaching staff, you can only say they are at 6 on scale of 1-10. When will MUIR self destruct?. I can only go by what I have seen over the last few years, the lack of structure and discipline will hurt them. I hope I'm wrong, but Iv'e coached for years and tendencies seldom change. The proof is in the pudding. Do something in the playoffs!
There you have it Miguel...that's why Bell Jeff deserves their spot. Lost to #1 by 6.
So the year San Gabriel was the #1 seed they were also the #1 ranked team in the division? And does that then mean that the winner of the Almont league this year will not be given a home game in the first round because they will not be ranked in the top 8?
Sorry Miguel, but I've always tried to figure this thing out. Hopefully when the CIF office calls you back they can explain the exact process.
Yes, if the season ended today SH would be the No. 1 seed, Charter Oak the No. 2 seed and so on. The final top 10 essentially becomes the 10 seeds in the division, though CIF really only credits the top 4 teams as the "seeded" teams.
Miguel,
Cheat on your blog? LMAO!!! That's funny as hell. Btw, I've got to represent for the west over on the Trib blog, you know, just to let them know WE ARE COMING!
As far as influence, what I mean is how much influence do the polls have on the top four seeds come playoff time. For example, if the season were to end today, would South Hills get the #1 seed over Charter Oak because they are #1 in the polls? That would be bull**it! When CIF gathers to give out the seedings do they follow the polls verbatim? If not, then how much influence do the polls have in the playoff seeding?
Btw, here's a look at the Top 5 teams and their losses:
1. SH- La Habra
2. CO- Rancho Cucamunga (tie)
3. Cal- no loss (VERY soft schedule so far)
4. Sante Fe- San Clemente
5. Muir- OAKS CHRISTIAN
Question...Does ANYONE see a discrepancy here, or is it just me?
Did you just admit you cheated on my blog? Unbelievable...
As far as influence goes, I don't quite understand what you're asking. Head coaches vote in the poll, I believe. What their rationale is for voting Rosemead at No. 7 is beyond me. Still waiting on a call from CIF.
Miguel, here's what I wrote in the ESGV blog:
The CIF polls have always been notoriously HORRIBLE! Year after year they always seem to screw things up. I understand that it's a difficult task to rank ALL these teams, but CV Christian, Monrovia, Azuza, SM, and Norhtview all AHEAD of Rosemead?!?!?!?! That is ludicrous!!! The Mead is putting the beat down on teams and almost bested the "#1" ranked team in the Southeast and the best CIF can do is #7? In the Mid-Valley? That's the type of **it I'm talking about. Your points about the other questionable rankings ring true as well, but none moreso than the Mead.
At first I was taken aback by Muir's #5 ranking because there is not doubt in my mind that they are a top three team, but with Cal at 7-0 and Sante Fe at 6-1 it doesn't seem so bad. Those two schools face off anyway so one of them will get bumped down.
My biggest problem with the CIF polls is when it comes to seeding. ALL other polls mean nothing when it comes down to it, but these polls have a lot to do with how teams are seeded. But HOW MUCH influnece do they have? That I don't know and any enlightenment would be appreciated. Joe Amat?
I know Calpreps is the not the end-all-be-all authority on Socal HS football but here is their take on the top 10 teams in the divisions.
SE division:
1. CO- 34.3
2. Muir- 32.0
3. SF- 30.3
4. SH- 29.8
5. Cal- 26.6
6. LS- 26.4
7. Rowland- 24.7
8. BoHi- 23.0
9. WC- 22.5
10.CV- 22.4
11.DR- 21.8 (strength of schedule makes all the difference here)
12.Burroughs- 15.9
Mid-Valley:
1. SD- 26.4
2. Mead- 21.8
3. NV-17.7
4.Paraclete- 16.5
5. SM- 14.7
6. VC- 9.9
7. Monrovia- 9.5
8. Azuza- 6.6
9. SEM- 3.9
10.Whit. Christ.- 2.8
11.Pomona- 1.0
12.TC- (-1.0)