Baseball: Six of the seven area teams playing Thursday lost in the first round of the playoffs .... How does that bode on the talent in the West San Gabriel Valley?

High quality info here! Keep up the great work. I love the feelings being expressed.

Many of the resources here and on this entire blog will be very useful to me! I will post a link to this page on my blog. I am sure my visitors will find that very useful.

Let's be honest here. There is tremendous pressure on good athletes to specialize. And it's not just in baseball.

Sure, some kids like to play only one sport.

But not every kid is playing just one sport because that's the only sport they want to play. Many are under tremendous pressure from their club and school coaches to focus on that one sport and not play any other sport in high school.

Look at the situation with soccer and the USSF's academy where players have to chose between playing for their club team or playing for their high school.

Many players end up chosing academy because they believe that's the only way they can get noticed by colleges and thus they miss out on playing high school soccer.

I'm not saying all club sports are bad -- in fact, some players should play club baseball or club soccer because they flourish under a higher level of competition and coaching.

But pressuring these kids to not play other high school sports... that happens all the time and it's real.

Rio Fan:

I agree that kids should play whatever they want, but some love to play baseball and "have fun" (often much more fun with their non-HS teams) by playing it as much as they can while they can. They are just lucky enough to be in a state where they can play baseball anytime. Not sure what D1 scholarship have to do with anything here. Plus, don't think anyone said playing year round will make you win CIF. Talent and good coaching is what will win CIF. A question was thrown out as to why WSGV seems behind the other areas in baseball and an observation was made.

You stated that the odds for a D1 scholarship are long. Who cares! If a kid has a dream he should chase it. The odds are long for becoming a Doctor also. Should kids shoot for C's and have more "fun" playing XBOX instead?

I have to take issue with writers arguing for baseball players to play even more baseball so the WSGV can produce a CIF titlist.

First of all, as was pointed out in one of the articles, get one big-time pitcher and you can ride him nearly to the championship with decent fielding and batting on the rest of the team.

What's happening too much now is players specializing in particular sports and missing out on the total high school experience.

You see guys not playing football and/or basketball or soccer so they can focus on baseball... and then, boom! Out in the first round of CIF and they missed the chance to experience the playing those other sports.

It's ridiculous.

The number of D1 scholarship-type athletes is miniscule.

Enjoy high school.

Play as many sports as possible.

Let the adults/coaches fume that you didn't win CIF supposedly because you didn't play baseball year-round.

But remember: it's your life, not theirs. High school only happens once.

I have to take issue with writers arguing for baseball players to play even more baseball so the WSGV can produce a CIF titlist.

First of all, as was pointed out in one of the articles, get one big-time pitcher and you can ride him nearly to the championship with decent fielding and batting on the rest of the team.

What's happening too much now is players specializing in particular sports and missing out on the total high school experience.

You see guys not playing football and/or basketball or soccer so they can focus on baseball... and then, boom! Out in the first round of CIF and they missed the chance to experience the playing those other sports.

It's ridiculous.

The number of D1 scholarship-type athletes is miniscule.

Enjoy high school.

Play as many sports as possible.

Let the adults/coaches fume that you didn't win CIF supposedly because you didn't play baseball year-round.

But remember: it's your life, not theirs. High school only happens once.

Thanks once again for this enlightening and revealing article on the "state" of baseball and especially the state of high school baseball in the WSGV. I believe and would encourage every high school baseball coach to post this story on their bulletin boards. It may be hard for the ego but baseball is all about testing the strength and resilience of one's ego.
One of the major issues I have observed and is an issue at many of our high school programs in the WSGV is the fact that high school head coaches concentrate their efforts on the varsity team and little thought onto the freshman incoming talent. The head coach is not just the coach of a team (usually Varsity/JV)but the "coach" (leader) of a high school baseball program. The freshman are "freshman/rookies" and need to "pay their dues" but they and the success of baseball at their respective high school demands a program that will develop this incoming talent throughout the year. This incoming talent is the future of the program and baseball in the WSGV. It was quite frustrating that only two schools in the Pacific League could field "freshman" teams to play against during the year. I agree that to get better one needs to play against good talent. I support the Pacific League Baseball teams/programs and wish the best to every coaching staff. These gentleman have a demanding position and a real challenge ahead to make baseball better in the WSGV.
Rick Jz/Arcadia

Baseball: Six of the seven area teams playing Thursday lost in the first round of the playoffs .... How does that bode on the talent in the West San Gabriel Valley?
By Miguel Melendez on May 22, 2009 8:52 AM | Permalink | Comments (12) | ShareThis

That all the Rio Hondo League teams lost Tuesday (Temple City) and Thursday (everyone else) shouldn't make anyone happy nor should anyone be pointing fingers or start with the exhausting rhetoric of "I told you their league is weak ... "

Fans from the Pacific League shouldn't be jumping with joy that Monrovia got shutout or that La Cañada got routed by Anaheim.

Their success is the West San Gabriel Valley's success and their struggles become ours, too. How well anyone in the WSGV does bodes well on us and if they continue to lose, well, that doesn't bode so well, does it?

Certainly you can look at a team like Arcadia and Monrovia and think, "OK, these two teams have a good chance of making a decent playoff run" but the fact of the matter is that's not going to happy.

It was yet another first round ouster for the Apaches and an abrupt ending for the seemingly surging Wildcats.

That Maranatha -- the lone team to make a finals run last year -- is still alive isn't something Minutemen fans should be proud of, either.

But while we're on this, how does a team like Maranatha continue to make deep playoff runs? Right, right, right, they play in an easy league and a weak division.

That's the kind of answer you'll get from your average knucklehead out there, including John who posted this comment in the last baseball thread:

Nobody saw this coming? Didn't you know the Rio Hondo was terrible? No Mckiernan, No Tucker, it's a horrible league with average teams. Didn't we talk about this, parity of the poor, Arcaida was way overated too, who have they even beat.

I don't think John's ever heard of using a period to end a sentence, but we'll let it slide this time. I do, however, take issue when he says the Rio Hondo is a terrible league with average teams. Which is it, John, terrible or average?

I say neither.

As a whole, the Rio Hondo League was as exciting as it's been in quite a long time. That, however, is not the reason why all four teams were ousted in their opening rounds.

When you compare Monrovia and Barstow's lineups it's clear the Wildcats are the superior team, yet the Wildcats did not play to their potential Thursday.

Barstow's pitcher was good but not great, and Monrovia couldn't adjust and jump on his early pitches, which is where the money was.

Take away the bloop singles and what does Barstow have? Probably a scoreless ball game Monrovia could have broken loose in the middle innings. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Arcadia overrated? Uh, no. Sure, the Apaches had a few questionable losses, but they were as good as advertised, especially when Bryce Rutherford was on target.

A valley rich in talent should be sending at least two more teams to the semifinals and finals, yet that's not happening.

And the question still begs: how could some of our best WSGV teams not come away with a victory Thursday?

non pacific fan blogger may have been on to something when he posted this:

what good is being best team in the area then going into the post season and getting knocked out in the first round. that's what it seems like all the sports are like in the pacific league. its time for the pacific league teams to start comparing themselves to the best teams in cif rather than just trying to be the best in the area or in our weak league

How does a team go about finding a solution? Scheduling tougher nonleague opponents in preseason? What about slipping a tough nonleague opponent near the end of the season?

When will the rest of the WSGV step up and bring home a plaque or at least the satisfaction of reaching the finals, semis or even quarters!?!?

No one knows.

But at some point it's going to be a snore hearing that the Bishop Amats and Northviews are battling for yet another CIF championship, right?

Coaches, I leave this one up to you.
12 Comments
Rio fan said:
A lot of hand-wringing going on here for no real reason.

The Rio Hondo teams this year didn't have any great pitchers. Lots of good solid pitchers, but no dominating pitchers. Take any of the teams from the Rio Hondo this year, put a power pitcher on the mound and you have a CIF championship contender.

The level of play was good (defense and at the plate), just no really top-level pitchers.

That was the only issue...

May 25, 2009 8:15 AM
Players are made in the offseason said:
I agree with all these points. Not sure if all the blame can or should be placed on area HS coaches. Actually, that kind of thinking might be a key factor to WSGV baseball disapointments. If you, as a parent or player, are waiting for your local HS coach/league to make you a top level player it probably won't happen. Players that are good enough need to go out and play with an elite travel team in the summer and fall (American Legion summer/fall do not compare). I've been around travel baseball for a while now and while there are a number of WSGV kids that do this it is not even close to the number of players you see from ESGV, IE and the OC. This means sacrifice and stepping outside of one's comfort zone. I'm not saying there are not WSGV players out there doing this already...I'm saying there are not enough. If more individuals raise their level then it will raise the level of their HS team which will raise the level of their league and ultimately raise the level of the WSGV.

May 23, 2009 12:24 PM
Someone who knows said:
One word: Demographics.

This side of the valley had undergone tremendous demographic changes in the last two decades along with more youths choosing AYSO over youth baseball has hurt local baseball programs and fewer players are competing for the same number of positions on varsity teams, and some local and league schools actually have players that have not played youth baseball playing on their schools' teams.

Is it that surprising the locals schools have done so poorly this season on the playoffs?

The writing was on the wall for years, and it may not get better anytime soon.

May 22, 2009 11:22 PM
Good Knight Now said:
What ever happened to all those brash St. Francis baseball fans over the years? Has that team made the playoffs during this decade? Well, better luck next year.

May 22, 2009 9:13 PM
tcchamps said:
MM

I take offense being called an average knucklehead. I thought I was the poster child. I’m very disappointed WSGV teams didn’t advance farther. Was it predictable? Yes absolutely. Many of us pointed out that the play seemed to be subpar this year. Arcadia certainly rose above that comment and certainly Mack deserves Coach of the Year considerations. It was quite fun watching San Marino gel, get on a roll, believe in themselves, and almost pull it off. Was it exciting, yes. Was it great baseball, no. If you’re around this long enough you get to see cycles. Some years are better than others. Your comment is dead on, “ Their success is the West San Gabriel Valley's success and their struggles become ours, too. How well anyone in the WSGV does bodes well on us and if they continue to lose, well, that doesn't bode so well, does it?” Cheer up my friend because there is good news. There are many young talented players in the WSGV and I expect play in the coming years to be quite exceptional, or shall I dare to say, an up year. Good Luck to Alhambra and Maranatha, were behind you.

P.S. – Have the coaches drop the Blair stats out of their spreadsheets prior to discussing any post season accolades.

May 22, 2009 5:30 PM
baseballguy said:
The reality the talent in the WSGV is down. Of all the teams that made the playoffs there only three players are/or will be heading to D1 college. Covey(USD), Berglund(UCSB) and Smith(Stanford). That is a very small amount from the pool of high schools. Not to say there is not quality players just not front line recruits. Please correct me if there are anymore. The East SGV has much more guys going D1. If you look at the ESGV team almost none leave the area to play games. St. Francis and Maranatha are the only two that come to mind. Leave the area and be willing to take some knock to become better and not worry about record. It is about where you finish. The WSGV teams venture out of the area to play game. The get beat but by the time playoffs roll around they can compete.

May 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Goldenarm said:
non pac league fan,

hard to argue with much of what you say.

Winning league should not be the goal. It should be task one of a larger goal.

When you get there - you MUST have more than an idea on what to do. This is the downfall of many area teams in different sports. A good crop of kids, things jel and they make a strong run...but often it dies out just before the crown is at hand. The dying is not necessarily because the other team is "better"...but you need only be better on that one particular day. To do that takes a melting pot of factors, one strong one being playoff experience in the coaching ranks.

If...and I say IF, ooaching is the root and key, and boundary from deep round play....then the next step should be pretty obvious, yes?

I think it is more than a single factor.

May 22, 2009 5:16 PM
New York said:
Which sports to the local WSGV schools excel in? Waterpolo, swimming, tennis? Maybe we are focused on the wrong sports when talking about "no success."

May 22, 2009 12:54 PM
non pacific fan said:
too add to that, yes, I think our local teams need to start seeking out better competition. they don't have to play the best of the best, but the solid/very good teams. It would take a couple years of getting beat for a team to start getting good, but the only thing they want to accomplish in these games is try to COMPETE and make YEAR TO YEAR progress. Lose to AMAT by 4 runs one year, next year try to get within 2 runs. That is progress, and a level of competition we need. I came from a very proud program in the SGV and that is how we went from average to good to very good to great. Every year we raised the bar. Did not care what kind of TALENT we had on the team but knew that didn't matter as long as we OUTWORKED our opponents.

May 22, 2009 12:36 PM
non pacific league fan said:
MM, thanks for the quote mention. In spite of my username, I am a fan of the Pacific League. It is just so frustrating that season after season, sport after sport, all the fans/athletes/coaches end up with is dissapointment.

In order to be dissapointed, you have to have expectations first. We build up these teams then get dissapointed when they don't live up to the expectations that WE CREATE for them. How are we creating these unrealistic expectations? 1st is the teams are out there playing other teams that aren't doing much either. And when they win those games, they feel good about themselves, and the school and the newspaper make them feel good about themselves, and they get a sense of accomplishment from that. That isn't working. Not asking us to diminish the kids' accomplishments, but we don't have to pat them on the back for every little thing. Personally, I don't give a rats about the star news rankings either (for the top teams in the league). Like I said, if teams want to be good in CIF, they have to compare themselves to the teams that are RANKED IN CIF.

You can't tell me in an area as populated as the WSGV, and with athletics being as important as they are here, that we can't field a competitive teams in CIF. It's so frustrating, because it SEEMS like ALL of the sports are like this. How can we not get like 2 or 3 teams PER SEASON for ALL GENDERS and ALL SPORTS to make some kind of DEEP playoff run?

Who does it fall on? It's gotta fall on the coaches. It is up to the coaches to develop the athletes we've got. Like I said, this is too populated an area to have such little success. If you (MM, Star News, w/e) want to try to make a difference, make these teams EARN their recognition on here. Don't just give it to them for the sake of doing it.

May 22, 2009 12:27 PM
Cat's Fan said:
The game at Monrovia was close until the 7th. Barstow looked average but pitcher got the out when needed. Mornrovia had many chanced just could not get the hit to get it going. Barstow did get away with throwing their number 2 pitcher.

May 22, 2009 11:17 AM
John said:
The RHL didn't have any pitching Miguel and without it, you don't win playoff games. Maranatha has the man on the mound so they should do well in the playoffs. There is nothing wrong with the talent in the WSGV, they're just going through a pitching slump. Rutherford was good, but that's a tough division. I guess maranatha should clean up in yourpostseason awards, right?
coaches must be given an outline or plan of the expectations of the program

A lot of hand-wringing going on here for no real reason.

The Rio Hondo teams this year didn't have any great pitchers. Lots of good solid pitchers, but no dominating pitchers. Take any of the teams from the Rio Hondo this year, put a power pitcher on the mound and you have a CIF championship contender.

The level of play was good (defense and at the plate), just no really top-level pitchers.

That was the only issue...

I agree with all these points. Not sure if all the blame can or should be placed on area HS coaches. Actually, that kind of thinking might be a key factor to WSGV baseball disapointments. If you, as a parent or player, are waiting for your local HS coach/league to make you a top level player it probably won't happen. Players that are good enough need to go out and play with an elite travel team in the summer and fall (American Legion summer/fall do not compare). I've been around travel baseball for a while now and while there are a number of WSGV kids that do this it is not even close to the number of players you see from ESGV, IE and the OC. This means sacrifice and stepping outside of one's comfort zone. I'm not saying there are not WSGV players out there doing this already...I'm saying there are not enough. If more individuals raise their level then it will raise the level of their HS team which will raise the level of their league and ultimately raise the level of the WSGV.

One word: Demographics.

This side of the valley had undergone tremendous demographic changes in the last two decades along with more youths choosing AYSO over youth baseball has hurt local baseball programs and fewer players are competing for the same number of positions on varsity teams, and some local and league schools actually have players that have not played youth baseball playing on their schools' teams.

Is it that surprising the locals schools have done so poorly this season on the playoffs?

The writing was on the wall for years, and it may not get better anytime soon.

What ever happened to all those brash St. Francis baseball fans over the years? Has that team made the playoffs during this decade? Well, better luck next year.

MM

I take offense being called an average knucklehead. I thought I was the poster child. I’m very disappointed WSGV teams didn’t advance farther. Was it predictable? Yes absolutely. Many of us pointed out that the play seemed to be subpar this year. Arcadia certainly rose above that comment and certainly Mack deserves Coach of the Year considerations. It was quite fun watching San Marino gel, get on a roll, believe in themselves, and almost pull it off. Was it exciting, yes. Was it great baseball, no. If you’re around this long enough you get to see cycles. Some years are better than others. Your comment is dead on, “ Their success is the West San Gabriel Valley's success and their struggles become ours, too. How well anyone in the WSGV does bodes well on us and if they continue to lose, well, that doesn't bode so well, does it?” Cheer up my friend because there is good news. There are many young talented players in the WSGV and I expect play in the coming years to be quite exceptional, or shall I dare to say, an up year. Good Luck to Alhambra and Maranatha, were behind you.

P.S. – Have the coaches drop the Blair stats out of their spreadsheets prior to discussing any post season accolades.

The reality the talent in the WSGV is down. Of all the teams that made the playoffs there only three players are/or will be heading to D1 college. Covey(USD), Berglund(UCSB) and Smith(Stanford). That is a very small amount from the pool of high schools. Not to say there is not quality players just not front line recruits. Please correct me if there are anymore. The East SGV has much more guys going D1. If you look at the ESGV team almost none leave the area to play games. St. Francis and Maranatha are the only two that come to mind. Leave the area and be willing to take some knock to become better and not worry about record. It is about where you finish. The WSGV teams venture out of the area to play game. The get beat but by the time playoffs roll around they can compete.

non pac league fan,

hard to argue with much of what you say.

Winning league should not be the goal. It should be task one of a larger goal.

When you get there - you MUST have more than an idea on what to do. This is the downfall of many area teams in different sports. A good crop of kids, things jel and they make a strong run...but often it dies out just before the crown is at hand. The dying is not necessarily because the other team is "better"...but you need only be better on that one particular day. To do that takes a melting pot of factors, one strong one being playoff experience in the coaching ranks.

If...and I say IF, ooaching is the root and key, and boundary from deep round play....then the next step should be pretty obvious, yes?

I think it is more than a single factor.

Which sports to the local WSGV schools excel in? Waterpolo, swimming, tennis? Maybe we are focused on the wrong sports when talking about "no success."

too add to that, yes, I think our local teams need to start seeking out better competition. they don't have to play the best of the best, but the solid/very good teams. It would take a couple years of getting beat for a team to start getting good, but the only thing they want to accomplish in these games is try to COMPETE and make YEAR TO YEAR progress. Lose to AMAT by 4 runs one year, next year try to get within 2 runs. That is progress, and a level of competition we need. I came from a very proud program in the SGV and that is how we went from average to good to very good to great. Every year we raised the bar. Did not care what kind of TALENT we had on the team but knew that didn't matter as long as we OUTWORKED our opponents.

MM, thanks for the quote mention. In spite of my username, I am a fan of the Pacific League. It is just so frustrating that season after season, sport after sport, all the fans/athletes/coaches end up with is dissapointment.

In order to be dissapointed, you have to have expectations first. We build up these teams then get dissapointed when they don't live up to the expectations that WE CREATE for them. How are we creating these unrealistic expectations? 1st is the teams are out there playing other teams that aren't doing much either. And when they win those games, they feel good about themselves, and the school and the newspaper make them feel good about themselves, and they get a sense of accomplishment from that. That isn't working. Not asking us to diminish the kids' accomplishments, but we don't have to pat them on the back for every little thing. Personally, I don't give a rats about the star news rankings either (for the top teams in the league). Like I said, if teams want to be good in CIF, they have to compare themselves to the teams that are RANKED IN CIF.

You can't tell me in an area as populated as the WSGV, and with athletics being as important as they are here, that we can't field a competitive teams in CIF. It's so frustrating, because it SEEMS like ALL of the sports are like this. How can we not get like 2 or 3 teams PER SEASON for ALL GENDERS and ALL SPORTS to make some kind of DEEP playoff run?

Who does it fall on? It's gotta fall on the coaches. It is up to the coaches to develop the athletes we've got. Like I said, this is too populated an area to have such little success. If you (MM, Star News, w/e) want to try to make a difference, make these teams EARN their recognition on here. Don't just give it to them for the sake of doing it.

The game at Monrovia was close until the 7th. Barstow looked average but pitcher got the out when needed. Mornrovia had many chanced just could not get the hit to get it going. Barstow did get away with throwing their number 2 pitcher.

The RHL didn't have any pitching Miguel and without it, you don't win playoff games. Maranatha has the man on the mound so they should do well in the playoffs. There is nothing wrong with the talent in the WSGV, they're just going through a pitching slump. Rutherford was good, but that's a tough division. I guess maranatha should clean up in yourpostseason awards, right?