Council meeting erupts before officials reject bid to increase Fire Department staffing
The City Council acted again on Monday to reject 5th Ward Councilman Chas Kelley's attempt to beef up Fire Department staffing.
Kelley wanted to reverse budget cuts made in February that had the effect of taking a fourth firefighter off some city engine companies. A three-person firefighter crew cannot enter a burning building without backup from another engine company unless it's immediately obvious that someone needs to be rescued.
The February cuts eliminated funding for 12 firefighting positions, and eight jobs that had been filled by firefighters working overtime were deleted from the payroll. Kelley proposed using part of $1.4 million in concessions that the firefighters union approved Monday to finance the restoration of the jobs to the city payroll.
The stage was set for the council to debate what levels of public service the city could afford. That didn't happen. Instead, Third Ward Councilman Tobin Brinker rushed to introduce a motion to table Kelley's proposal. A motion to table means that the council drops discussion of an issue without setting a time to resume talks.
This is what ultimately happened. The council voted 4-3 to stop talking about Kelley's proposal. Brinker and councilmen Dennis Baxter, Fred Shorett and Rikke Van Johnson voted to table the proposal.
Kelley, McCammack and Councilwoman Esther Estrada voted against Brinker.
The vote followed a raucous argument over whether the council had the ability to vote on Brinker's motion. Several firefighters also argued in favor of Kelley's proposal and also agreed with Kelley that council members ducked their responsibilities by refusing to debate the merits of the proposal.
"Which of your constituents said 'Go table that?,'" asked fire union vice president Jim McMullen said from the podium reserved for members of the public.
Brinker said after the council voted that he thought it was pointless to debate Kelley's idea after the council chose not to support his idea during the April 20 meeting.
"We talked about it last meeting. There was no reason to talk about it again," Brinker said.
Seventh Ward Councilwoman Wendy McCammack, who supported Kelley's proposal, tried to introduce her own motion that would have given the council a chance to discuss the merit's of Kelley's proposal. And that's when people got angry.
Mayor Pat Morris sided with Brinker. He argued that the council had to vote on Brinker's move to end discussion first. City Attorney James F. Penman, raising his voice, disagreed. Penman countered that council rules require that the body to consider a substitute motion before considering a motion to table.
Boring stuff, but boring stuff that had an impact on city policy, since the council ended up doing things the way the mayor wanted to. For a while, Morris wanted to immediately move forward the motion to table without taking time to let the public step up to the city microphone and weigh in.
After a heated exchange between Morris and Penman over what the council's rules require, Estrada took exception to the possibility that the public might not have been afforded an opportunity to address their representatives.
"I would hope that we would not topple the Freedom of Speech here, your honor," Estrada said.
Morris changed his mind after aide Peggy Hazlett stepped to his seat with a message. McCammack angrily charged that the mayor only allowed the public to speak after relying on the advice of his son, mayoral chief of staff Jim Morris.
It was then that several firefighters spoke in favor of Kelley's idea. Fire union spokesman Tom Rubio said city officials were wasting their time in argument when they should be attempting to figure out how they can finance fire protection.
"We have very resourceful people on this Fire Department. We've done it before. We can do it again," Rubio said.
Rubio said the city could apply for grants to increase engine company staffing. Fire Capt. Richard Lewis later stepped to the microphone to contend that the city could ask San Bernardino voters for a charter amendment to mandate that engine companies have four-person crews.
Because of Brinker's motion, Kelley, McCammack and Penman had to speak from the public microphone instead of from the council dais.
"Tonight ladies and gentleman, democracy was thwarted, deliberately," Kelley said from City Hall's public comment podium.
"The candidates, and I said candidates, on that dais would have had a chance to explain to their residents why they thought my motion was wrong," he said later.
McCammack also accused Pat Morris of seeking revenge against the fire union since they did not support his candidacy.
Firefighters erupted into applause when speakers agreed with theirs and Kelley's positions. At least one man in the audience shouted "withdraw the motion" to Brinker.
Speaking from the public podium, Penman put forth that the speed with which Brinker put forward his bid to end debate meant that his action was prearranged. Reached in the City Hall lobby, Penman said he had no evidence that more than three council members discussed the issue before Monday's meeting.
It's illegal in California for a majority of any city council to privately discuss official business outside of a proper meeting.
Brinker said after the vote that he did not prearrange the outcome of Monday's discussion.
Asked if he spoke with council members during a meeting break, Pat Morris held up his hands but any spoken response was not heard by this reporter before Hazlett told this reporter to leave the dais because the council was returning to session.
Reached by telephone for clarification later Monday night, Jim Morris said "the mayor may have had talked to some council people in general, but the allegation that he drove this issue is completely and utterly ridiculous.
"He's got no agenda here," Jim Morris added, saying that the mayor's goals Monday night were to foster an orderly discussion, and that the decision on whether to debate Kelley's proposal was made by a council majority not the mayor.
Jim Morris also said the mayor has no interest to offend firefighters.
"What interest does he have other than a balanced budget?," Jim Morris asked.
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So Kelley and Brinker have fallen out of love with one another. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
And Kelley is back with Penman and McCammack. Didn't see that one coming since Kelley made certain to let everyone know at a city council meeting a couple of months ago that the only pocket he was in was Mrs. Kelley's not Penman's pocket. I guess he is back to being a Penman Pocket Pet. At least Penman doesn't have to spend extra on tailoring given Kelley's diminutive stature.
I find it vastly amusing that everytime something doesn't go their way "they" start to make "noise" about the possibility of a Brown Act violation. It's getting a little old. So is the trick of using the public podium to get their three minutes when they don't get to say what they want from the dais.
And isn't it great that Kelley is worried about Baxter and Shorett's candidacy chances given their position on this? Yep, what a caring compatriot.
At least politics in this city aren't dull, stupid maybe, but not dull.
Politics in San Bernardino remain constant…unchanging, and a total and complete embarrassment. This poor town for the life of itself can not attract a City Leader (Mayor) that is worth his salt. The City Council is also disgusting. There is not one thing they ALL can agree on, regardless of what it is. Yes, this is an election year and boy is it time to clean house from the top to the bottom. It is too early to tell who will run for what position but let’s just hope NONE of the current elected individuals return.
These last 3 years have shown the voters and citizens just how low and disorganized City Politics really are. From finding a loop-hole in the nepotism policy to the failed Operation Phoenix, to the selection of hand chosen leadership staff members who are now in jail, to the ongoing battle with the Police and their Union, to the questionable City Manager’s departure, to going well past the budget deadline for having a balanced budget, and the boondoggles to Mexico at a time when funding is critical, and the list goes on.
Then there is this sitting Council that can not agree on what day it is much less what is best for the City and people they are supposed to represent. One thing is for sure, they are not worth not one penny more than what they are paid. In San Bernardino we get exactly what we pay for and nothing more.
Please, someone tell us why you don’t hear about the embarrassing politics in the other local cities as you do in San Bernardino. Why don’t other cities have like problems that are aired in public fashion that demonstrates total and complete lack of leadership ability and the vision to effectively run our City where we can be proud instead of embarrassed to say we live in San Bernardino.
We can only hope for a very large voter turn-out in the fall and some respectable individuals decide to run for the open offices. As President Obama said...CHANGE is needed.
"A three-person firefighter crew cannot enter a burning building without backup from another engine company unless it's immediately obvious that someone needs to be rescued."
Show me the LAW that "bars" firemen from intervening until backup arrives!!!
Let me save you the time...you can't, because it doesn't exist!!!
This was a recommendation made by the National Fire Protection Association, which is a nonprofit organization, established in 1896, to reduce the worldwide burden of fire and other hazards on the quality of life by providing and advocating consensus codes and standards, research, training, and education.
Nowhere does it say that this organization has any authority to create laws, all they do is recommend an industry standard.
I'm sure the janitor's association would like to recommend a "two in-two out" rule when cleaning certain toilets, and cops would probably like to have two people in every car when they show up to deal with gun toting crooks...
Don't let them baffle you with this BS anylonger!!!
The Fire Department thumbed their collective noses at the city and didn't want to give concessions, so the city found a way to trim the budget through eliminating their constant manning, which is comparable to a governmental Ponzi Scheme!
Don't be fooled,
True, NFPA 1710 is a recommendation.
BUT, two-in/two-out is a FEDERALLY MANDATED OSHA REGULATION.
Please do not post unless you have ALL the information.
Then post the EXACT OSHA regulation Misinformed!
State and local government agencies are not subject to the regulations established by Federal OSHA. Although the Federal OSHA standards are not directly applicable to state and local fire departments or rescue agencies, Federal OSHA law gives each state the option to operate under its own occupational health and safety programs.
Concerned, what rock have you been living under? This kind of thing goes on all the time at city halls up and down the state and across the nation. Look at the city of colton.
Though I disagree with the council, they made a decision. McFatmack, Dumbmen are nothing but cry babies that remind me of children who dont get their way.
I would agree with you on one thing, time to clean house, starting with the career politian Penman. There have been many faces that have come and gone but his mug has been there for as long as I can remember. Penman go into private practice see if you can cut it.
And as for Kelley the guy would fit in anyones pocket. This is only part of his re-election strategy. Get fire and police on your side and you get elected, even though I would bet much less than half of them actually live in San Bernardino. Why do they have so much sway (oh yea the money).
I don't know how my city got infested with negative nancys. I am proud to be from San Bernardino and not afraid to go downtown. This is like any other big city with good and bad parts. No mayor or council will ever be able to do anything with citizens like you, to be honest I really don't know who would want that job. It is a thankless and tiresome job with very little pay. Why dont you run.
How can anyone be anything but negative? Citizens have wonderful role models on the dais. There is the Morris-Penman dispute. They snipe at one another, plot and scheme against one another. You can certainly see that their "beef" with one another is more important than dragging this city out of the gutter. Both are big on telling everyone that they want to work together to better the city then you see the gamesmanship that went on last night.
Morris can't honestly say that this wasn't decided ahead of time. Then again, you know that Kelley, McCammack and Penman had been doing the same thing. The Fire Department Association was meeting on 13th Street before the council meeting and had been at city hall too. It's all a big game. Nothing else.
People are dying in the streets and it is all a game.
1 Comments
Diana Arvizo said:
Please check out:
Here is the law from OSHA....
http://www.iaff.org/hs/PDF/2in2out.pdf. This is a pdf copy of the United States Department of Labor Occupational Safety and Health Administration Fire Fighters' Two-in/Two-out Regulation. It states that the State of California has an OSHA-approved plan and must enforce the two-in/two-out provision for all fire departments. All professional career firefighters in any of the states or territories where an OSHA state plan agreement is in effect, have the protection of all federal OSHA health and safety standards, including the new respirator standard and its requirements for fire fighting operations.
"How can anyone be anything but negative? Citizens have wonderful role models on the dais."
Constructive critizism with ideas to help = GOOD. Negative comments with no back up = Cry Baby. And role models???? You got to be kidding me. I dont agree with Penman most of the time, but both him and Morris are great role models, college graduates, lawyers, active in the community. How many of you can say that about your own children.
People are dying in the streets because irresponsible parents who think parenting is a game. Government can only do so much. People bashed operation phoenix so much, but have no real solutions of their own, but to blame mayor, and say we need more cops. The cops can't be everywhere all the time. Look to your own homes before you start throwing stones.
Here is a website for you "Don't be fooled".
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5144.html
Please go to G-4.
The Exact regulation would be Title 8, Section 5144,under the section G-4.
I think what you are refering to is NFPA 1710, which is a recommendation that there are Four person Engines. I agree it is just a recommendation, But by following it the firefighting duties can be carried out in a much quicker and effective manner due to the above stated OSHA regulation.
Also the Fire union accepted concessions back in february that Weinberg and the City later retracted after an overwhelming yes vote. The Union also recently accepted concessions that make up for the gap in time by each Firefighter contributing even more then the originally agreed upon concessions.
Hopefully that can help you make an informed decision. Thank you for your time and passion on the matter.
My home is doing fine, thank you very much. My children aren't running wild. They are in a private school that has college prep curriculum and are going to college. My son is an Eagle Scout. My daughter is involved in Soccer. My husband and I are active in their lives. I am active in the community and active in my church. I speak with my councilperson. I've even spoke with Morris and Penman. I've publicly spoken at council meetings. I vote at every election. I am doing everything that I can do as a citizen. And as a citizen I am disgusted by the games these politicians are playing. All that was done after Myneshia was lip service. Operation Phoenix? Please! Morris wasn't even around, and let's not get started on Mike Miller. However it is evident that the farmer wasn't watching the hen house.
As for role models, you are welcome to aim low for your children. You are talking about acheivements, not character - and role models should have character. I know enough about both that they don't qualify as role models in my book.
For Fleur… & JusAnotherCitizen
I totally concur Fleur thank you!! However, to disappoint JusAnotherCitizen, NO Sir, I have not been living under a rock. I have been as Ms Fleur indicates, trying to be part of the solution to what has infected SB that I and many others are not comfortable with nor satisfied. It has been ongoing for far too long. Instead of just pointing the finger I too am deeply involved and have been for a very long time. Raised my daughters (with the help of my wife) and we are extremely proud of them. They attended public schools in SB and went on to CSSB graduating then Grad School becoming wives, mothers and professionals in their own right. Nothing was given them, no special programs, no privileges due, just hard focused work and a parent supported goal in life. Their formal education was on their dime as they too worked. I did not stop there as I have continued to be involved in community and City affairs as a volunteer. And you Sir, what was it again that you are doing? I don’t wait for someone somewhere to do something, if I see it and it is wrong, broken, or in need of attention, I report it and follow up to ensure it is addressed in timely fashion. JusAnotherCitizen, again, what have you done or what are you doing other than just pointing your finger to everything but the problem (Remember, if YOU are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem…that finger bends nicely around to point at yourself!!). Just for the record, I and perhaps Ms. Fleur, are not interested in what you do or what you are doing. Just don’t think you are knowledgeable enough about us to sound off as you have about something you know nothing about.
Lastly, my concerns and efforts are not focused at Colton or anywhere else other than SB, where I live. I don’t waste time calling the elected names. Like it or not, they are the elected and deserve respect. Additionally, wasting your time voicing issue with elected who are not up for re-election this year falls in line with so much of what you have said in your Post. Perhaps next time you will attack the issue and offer assistance or suggested solutions instead of revealing so much about yourself that is less than impressive. As I have said often, SB gets exactly what it pays for in terms of the elected. Where else can a body of people be so controlling in a City of 200K+ for $50 a meeting each? A truly multi-million dollar establishment with $0.10 management.
Concerned let's get some facts straight. The living under a rock statement was directed soley at your statement "Please, someone tell us why you don’t hear about the embarrassing politics in the other local cities as you do in San Bernardino. Why don’t other cities have like problems that are aired in public fashion that demonstrates total and complete lack of leadership ability and the vision to effectively run our City where we can be proud instead of embarrassed to say we live in San Bernardino." then in your most recent poast you say "Lastly, my concerns and efforts are not focused at Colton or anywhere else other than SB, where I live." SO WHICH IS ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER CITIES??
Its funny how you and Fleur find it necessary to defend yourself again the comment parents need to look to their own home. If your a good parent, and your children are as you say, good for you, but i could care less. But tell me about some of those ideas you have, how you are so active in the community, again SPECIFICALLY what are you doing? what are your ideas? The only thing I got from your orignial post was it was time for new people for you to bash. Saying "Council that can not agree on what day it is" is frivolous and yes, bashing. They don't have to agree, I would be more concerned if every vote was uniamous. This is democracy, only symbolic votes usually get everybody to agree. How big and important things such as fire staffing, I would expect disagreement and debate from all points of view.
One last thing if you are truly embarrassed to live in San Bernardino, MOVE.
I'd love to move! Are you willing to purchase my house at what I bought it for? If so, how does a 30-45 day escrow sound to you because I am more than willing to shake the dirt of San Bernardino from my shoes.
With the economy and housing market in the condition that it is, it is impossible to leave right now. My husband and I are looking at options to rent our house out so we can leave as soon as my daughter finishes high school this year.
A good friend is looking at walking away from her home. And, yes, she has been involved in the community as well.
There is only so much that citizens can do. Without effective leadership on the dais at City Hall this city is doomed. As I said, I believe that the game is more important than actually accomplishing something so why should I stay? I have gone into neighborhoods that are dangerous during the day, let alone at night trying to work toward a better San Bernardino. A police officer told me I was stupid to be doing that. My husband was VERY mad at me and ordered me not to do it again. I did because I believed that we (the city government and I) could make it a better place and that trust was betrayed - more than once. So why should I believe anymore? The really sad thing was that A LOT of people told me that the betrayal would happen and I didn't listen being the optimist. I have heard too many "I told you so's" lately.
I'm not Pollyanna anymore. If you want to hold the title, go for it.