Who would win if Mt. SAC played APU?

Don’t just answer without thinking about it first …

Aram’s take: Mt. SAC sent about 20 kids to D-1 schools this year. I’m taking Mt. SAC. I know it sounds crazy to some, but really, I don’t think you can say the talent at APU is better than Mt. SAC. Maybe this is a no-brainer, but I thought it was interesting.

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  • Aaron


  • Crickets? Really? It was just posted less than 30 mins ago and probably didn’t cache until 20 minutes ago.

    A little quick on the trigger there, soldier.

  • Anonymous

    APU would beat Mt. Sac by “more” than 3 touchdowns ive seen both squads and Mt. Sac just dont line up well against a powerhouse naia school who is now moved up to because of their dominance in naia. Mt. Sac need to worry about beating Riverside cc or San Francisco cc. And for all the home bodies that voted for Mt. Sac smack yourselves and wake up

  • Anonymous

    Better yet thats like saying who would win out of Oak christian or San Francisco cc. or Oak christian against any JC football team. if thats not clear enough then how about this the chances of Mt Sac beating APU is the same chances Bishop Amat has of winning the pac5 and state championship. VERRRRRYYYYYYYY SLIMMMMMMMM

  • No Contest

    I’ve coached JuCo and Div3. At D3 we scrimamged a JuCo in pads once. It was a tie. Over 4 quarters the D3 would win. Yes even against Mt. Sac.

    APU would SMASH the Sac! over four 15 minute quarters they would win by at least 4 touchdowns.

    JuCo football is dreadfully bad football. Even at Mt. Sac. It’s not interesting, it’s minimally technical. Pac-5 football is more exciting and more technical.

    APU was HORRIBLE for a long time (very recently). Maybe their worst team would lose to Mt. Sac’s best team. Since Brian Wilmer got to APU they are solid.

  • sgv scouting

    Aram — I wouldn’t waste your energy on Aaron. When it comes to football IQ, he doesn’t score too high!!!

  • Don

    The level of talent and the quality of football put out at Sac is not your garden variety juco football. Witness only the amazing number of kids Jastrab moves on every year to four year programs and ask yourself how many APU kids could move on and play D1 after their soph season.

    Take a look too at the rosters and hometowns of the Mt Sac kids and you’ll see not only those bounce-back guys who didn’t quite fit as freshmen in 4 year programs after HS but an amazing number of athletes from all over the pacific as well as island outposts in Utah and Texas.

    Go watch a Sac game, you’ll see why Sac has won a half dozen state championships and Jastrab has been CC COY five times.

  • concussion-symptoms

    SAC has the ability to suit a whole bunch of D1 athletes without all those pesky things like LOW SAT scores, TERRIBLE GPAs and NCAA Clearing-House issues getting in the way. Those athletes go to SAC because they, for one reason or another, could not get themselves into a D1 or D2 school making SAC not your typical JUCO.

    I personally think that it would be a very good game and NOT a blow-out.


    sgv scouting,
    Your best scouting report to date concerning Aaron . This guy wouldn’t know a sweep from a dive play even if they ran it up his kiester.

  • I don’t mind Aaron. He’s got his opinions on things and follows the scene pretty darn close. His head may be getting turned a bit because he’s running with the wrong crowd, but so be it.



  • Dubb3trathree

    This is one of those local questions that many people ask but unless you have played at Mt.Sac you can not understand the level of talent and size there. Mt.Sac is pretty much a local Division 1 school. The Amount of talent on their roster year in and year out is amazing. I played at Sac in the Late 90’s. That year alone we had 11 guys go D1 and D1AA. And another 15 or so that went D2,D3 and NAIA.Guys at Sac get rides that aren’t even starters. But because they were on the 2 deep at SAC and had a lil film schools would offer scholarships. APU is in their first year of Division 2 football.They will struggle a little until their recruiting reaches past the SGV and more into other states and northern cali. And when their starting Center is from say Charter Oak, and solid SGV 6’0 270. Good size for high school and for the NAIA level that APU used to compete at. But when you line him across from a 6’5 295 Samon DT with incredible size and speed. You see the difference. Even Citrus is no were close to Mt.Sac. Citrus will have the best RB from a San Dimas. Were Mt.Sac will have the best RB from Long Beach Poly that didn’t get a ride due to grades. APU is a great program, but this would come down to Jimmy’s and Joe’s. And no one in the state other than D1 and D1AA schools. Could take out Mt.Sac…

    Once A SAC DAWG, Always A SAC DAWG!!

  • aztrc pride u gotta be kidding

    I saw 2 APU games (one a playoff game) this year, and know many of the players at citrus, APU would have put in their 2nd team after halftime in such a contest

  • ???

    Mt. Sac may have been undefeated, but they really didn’t blow out many teams and barely scored a couple of touchdowns in some of those games. Teams like APU and even Cal Lu would have blown them out. D3 teams have several D1 transfers as well as kids that have D1 talent, but lack size.

  • Bottom Line

    APU is to deep they have 4 years to develop kids. Many juco kids are one and done. Yes they have talent but a team and a program like APU is just to much for even the best juco

  • coltfan97

    First of all I have seen both teams play for the last couple of years, and to me this is no contest!!! MT. SAC would win easily!!!!

    Look at both teams record over the past five years:

    2007 6-5 10-3
    2008 2-8 12-2
    2009 3-8 13-1
    2010 2-8 13-0
    2011 9-3 11-2

    MT. SAC has played in the State JUCO championship game five years in a row!!!! Also, MT. SAC was National Champs in 2009 and in 2010!!!! Plus look at the players they send to Division 1 schools after they are done at MT. SAC!!! MT. SAC has depth at every position!!! MT. SAC doesn’t rebuild they just reload!!!! Coach Jastrab has done a wonderful job at MT. SAC, and in my opinion he has built a dynasty!!!!

    As of right now MT. SAC has better talent than A.P.U. Maybe this will change in the next couple since A.P.U. is moving to Division 2!!!

  • Local Area Coach

    APU would win, as would almost any 4-yr school.

    One poster eluded to it already…the ability to develop kids for FOUR years. No doubt, Mt SAC is extremely talented, and many kids go on to D-I and D-IAA scholarhips, probably more talented than the small local 4-yr schools, but that is the comparrison of each programs freshmen and sophmores.
    The 4-yr advantage lies in the fact that they have 20+ year olds on the field. More experience, and physically more mature. Any team of grown men will get the best of 18-yr old kids just about any day of the week.
    And, the smaller 4-yr schools have their share of D-I kick-backs too, and they’re older than the Mt SAC D-I potentials…
    ADVANTAGE= APU, and all the other 4-yrs, save maybe Whittier and La Verne

  • Local Area Coach

    APU would win, as would almost any 4-yr school.

    One poster eluded to it already…the ability to develop kids for FOUR years. No doubt, Mt SAC is extremely talented, and many kids go on to D-I and D-IAA scholarhips, probably more talented than the small local 4-yr schools, but that is the comparrison of each programs freshmen and sophmores.
    The 4-yr advantage lies in the fact that they have 20+ year olds on the field. More experience, and physically more mature. Any team of grown men will get the best of 18-yr old kids just about any day of the week.
    And, the smaller 4-yr schools have their share of D-I kick-backs too, and they’re older than the Mt SAC D-I potentials…
    ADVANTAGE= APU, and all the other 4-yrs, save maybe Whittier and La Verne

  • That’s just dumb

    Colt that is jus a dumb post your comparison of schedules is apples to oranges. So Indy won 1 game so I guess Mt. Sac would win that game as well.
    Same your blow heart blogging for the prep stuff it more your league.

  • haha

    DUH!!! A team that has players for 4 years and even 5, will beat a team of freshmen and sophomores. It would be full of 20+ year olds against 18 and 19………….NO CONTEST!!!

  • coltfan97

    You know whats dumb is the fact that you think I posted schedules, and I didn’t!!! I posted their records over the past 5 years not their schedules!!! Next time buddy try to comprehend what I say!!! By the way, I like apples and oranges!!!

    A.P.U has the advantage because their players can stay all 4 years, but MT SAC has the talent and the athletes to overcome that advantage A.P.U. has!!!

    Here is a question for everyone, has anybody see MT SAC play over the past 5 years?

    Like I said before, I have seen both teams play over the past 5 years, and without a doubt MT SAC has the talent, the athletes, and the coaching to beat A.P.U!!!

  • Cougars98

    What about the 98 APU national championship team. That team would handle MT. SAC! That team was full of Jr. college starters and D-1 throw backs. I would put my money on the 1998 squad. GO COUGS!!

  • I’ve covered both teams since 2007. I was asked this very question by APU AD Gary Pine two years ago when he still was the SID. I told him I would give the edge to Mt. SAC, which had speed that APU probably wouldn’t handle. But APU had a quarterback – John van den Raadt – that Mt. SAC would have a hard time accounting for. It would be a great game. If the game was played last year, APU would probably have the edge. But I would give Mt. SAC the edge in 2010. That SAC team might have given Washington State (2010) a game.
    P.S.: Aztec Pride, as much as I like coach Ponciano, even he would say his team wouldn’t have a chance. Mt. SAC beat Citrus pretty good in 2008 and 2009.

  • Anonymous

    I dont think any of you guys understand the different talent level APU plays compared to Mt. Sac. put it like this its like the pac5 playing in the mid valley playoffs. Steve Ramirez out of all people i thought at least you would have common sense this comparison is just like the comparison you dudes cry about all year. THE TALENT LEVEL for instance you and your co-workers continue to rev on about how much talent the pac5 plays against compared to any other schools like CO, Monrovia, and etc….now take a look at APU its a team “full” of D1 throwbacks playing against other teams that is full of D1 throwbacks. Mt. Sac might have a few d1 throwbacks (that didnt even play or make a dent on the d1 level) and not as near as many as APU. Lets be real about that 2010 team they were good but not all that they struggled in a few games that season against a 4-6 PCC team 33-30 and a few other teams but again look at the level of talent, you have a field full of high school kids that either couldnt make it on the d1 level or just lacked discipline to get the grades and and or just didnt get a look not even a look from NAIA APU. APU would had destroyed Mt Sac 2010 football team nick lamison and mike edwards would had been completely shut down against APU who went 6-4 in 2010 against much more stellar competition. Steve give up on journalism or whatever it is that you do sports talk is clearly not one of your strong subjects.

  • Close but no cigar

    I would give the edge to Apu. Even though mt sac may have more D1 bodies, Apu has continuity. They would have kids who would have played together for 2-3 years. Also being in a D2 program for 2 years working out, and training trumps one summer of JC working out and training, Especially if mt sac is starting some freshman out there. They would literally be straight out of high school. With no Seniors, Mt Sac would have less leadership and probably come up short. The ex factor is the QB position. If Apu played with a Qb who had 2 years of experience, it would be a lock for APU. If 2 freshman or sophomore matched up then it would be closer with APU still winning. I’d take the Experience of APU over the possibly more talented Mt Sac D1 prospects. Keep in Mind D2’s have D1 Bounce backs as well, and now that APU is no longer NAIA, Expect a lot of Socal D1 Bounce backs to show up in Azusa this summer.

  • coltfan97

    If you want to go back that far to 1998 for APU’s National Championship, then what about MT SAC 1997 team that won a National Champioship led by La Mirada’s Head Coach Mike Moshetti!!!!


    Okay this has the classic discussion about can Charter Oak; or West Covina beat BISHOP AMAT, PAC-5. But this time its a Junior College team, against an NAIA, now a Div. 2 team. Steve has a point and I too would have to lean toward Mt. Sac, depending on what season. If you go back and see how APU has been doing these last 10 years it hasnt been too impressive. By the looks of it, they cant seem to get by Carroll from Montana, whos won the championship several years running. On the other hand look how SAC is doing and now has a very dominant program and has won several championships over the years. What were now looking at are teams like BOSIE STATE, UTAH STATE, and remember Michigan losing to APPLACHIAN STATE winning upper division teams!
    So to say if Mt. Sac can win APU, maybe so, but not all the TIME!

  • juco coach

    People who pick Mt.Sac don’t really understand the difference between a 4 year program vs a jc. Even D3 schools like APU and even Cal Lutheran have their share of D1 kickbacks. They also have the advantage of year long weight training program,3 daily meals and unlimited amount of meetings(film sessions) with their respective position coaches. There’s also a big difference between having kids for 4-5 years compared to 1-2 years. It’s men against boys. Cal Lutheran had a 25 yr old QB who had played at Marshall and a 25 yr old RB, who could probably bench press more than any juco lineman.

  • New York

    1985 Ditka vs the 2011 New York Giants? Ditka in a route!

    I would take APU over Mt Sac for several reasons.

    APU would have a huge advantage in an early season matchup. I acknowledge that Mt Sac freshman are likely more talented than APU freshman. But a head to head match up would have 21-22 year old APU players vs 18-20 year olds. The continuity and conditioning from 3 1/2 years in the same system would go along way. The syncronization across the offensive line would be night and day. APU’s defensive front would probably cause fits for a JC line whose stars all left the prior spring…

  • neojock

    There are kids who play at APU who never got to touch the field at Mt. SAC. Yes, that’s right…backups at Mt. SAC start at APU. Mt. SAC has D-1 level talent and coaching.
    Bruce Irvin, West Virginia. Hebron Fangupo, BYU. Bojay Filimoeatu, Utah State. Vai Lutui, Kansas State. Matt Austin, Utah State. Manase Foketi, Kansas State. Rudolph Fifita, Oregon State. Eddie Williams, UCLA. Kevin Craft, UCLA. Ernst Brun, Iowa State. Nick Lamaison, UTEP….I can name 100 more….all recent Mt. SAC grads….oh wait….but those kids listed above wouldn’t be able to play at APU.

    Just take the average size, strength, and age of both offensive and defensive lines and it’s not even close; so the comment made earlier by New York is completely inaccurate. We don’t have 18 year old all-valley kids playing for us. We have grown men, return missionaries, and real D-1 guys.

    Keep it real.

  • New York

    How about my comment about continuity? Talent alone doesn’t win football games? How about early in the season when the new group of all-stars and transfers has had limited time to learn the playbook and work side by side?

  • Bruin For Life

    Hey Neojock Kevin Craft shouldn’t have even played at UCLA!!! That guy sucked!!!!

  • NewsFlash


    Someone from the MtSac football program graduated? From Sac city college? Regally? Now that has got to be a 1st!

  • College or Jucco

    Just Imagine a game played on Aug 27th. Those mt Sac Freshman would be tired, and still getting used to the tempo, and speed of college. Apu would have several players which have played 4-5 years of College. Mt Sac most experienced players would have played 0-1 years of college. Apu would have 70% of their players which have been thru 2-5 years of college workouts. Mt Sac would have 100% of their players with 0-2 years of work outs. Basically it would be similar if you took Mt Sac’s team and played them verses the Army All American team. The Army All american team has more talent, But Mt Sac Would have the experience and extra preparation to win the game. I think Mt Sacs skill players would have a hard time taking the big hits from 5th year seniors. Juco is closer to high school competition than it is to Div I, or II. I think Mt Sac would turn the ball over way too many times, and probably have a hard time playing solid coverage. Apu’s line would hold up better, being that they know the schemes and played with each other. Mt Sacs offense would not be clicking like Apu’s.

    We must also clear the myth that Mt Sac is just so much more talented. Players go to JC’s because they are not ready for D1 or D2. It may be size, it may be speed, it may be grades, it may be off the field issues. However by their Soph year they clean up their act, get better, and go on to play college. Apu has players that are ready to play D2 right of the bat. They are not helpless or trash football players. Apu’s players are quality football players. Otherwise someone would not be offering them a scholarship and paying for their school. People forget that you can transfer from a D2 to D1, if you have your redshirt year. If Apu’s sophomores dominated D2, and wanted to transfer up, they could as well, and they would be just as good. They would have also played against better comp too. APU Wins hands down.

  • RC

    How many NFL players has APU produced? How many has MSAC produced? Winner—MSAC

  • I played @ SAC & against AP. I think AP has an advantage. Age and experience win out. I know a coach @ AP and the are loaded.SAC does have more Talent. Pros come from SAC not AP. ( Okeye aside ). I played w/ 2 NFLers & Calvillo. WE went .500. Coach Jastrabs’ biggest accomplishment is getting all of those freaks to play as a team. When I was @ ULV we were way up on AP and I was out of the game mid 3rd qtr. AP, ULV & SAC are waaaay different now.I think if AP & SAC played 10 times,AP wins 7. But every 3-4 games the freaks would do something amazing.

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