MUST LISTEN: “Kill the F*ckin head” — Saints DC Gregg Williams … Is this dirty or is it JUST PLAIN OLD FOOTBALL? …

Aram’s take:
So sorry, but I think talks like this go on WAY MORE than most people realize. And yes, I’m talking at the high school level. I doubt it’s to this degree and level of detail, though. Football is a dirty, nasty, violent, BEAUTIFUL game played only by true bad asses. A top coach in the area once told me, and you know who you are, “If you’ve got a bunch of 4.0 students on your team, you’re probably not going to be in the playoffs.” The true, harsh reality is that HS football is played a lot of guys who are probably going to go on and do some pretty tough things in their lives. It’s not for choir boys. I don’t think there are too many true bounties in HS football, but I do think players are targeted.

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  • stop being pansies

    Take a look at the helmets on 85% of these HS/college players…. Those stickers are not for good deeds and/or community service.

    It is a violent game, deal with it.

  • saladays

    The speeches in many high schools are much more volatile than this. Less maturity with coaches and players with more personal things on the line than in the NFL.

    As for the bounties, there are bounties given by coaches and parents in youth football.

    I would say right now the OC and IE have the worst bounty situation right now in high school football you have some coaches out there with their heads up their you know what. The SGV and City section its more cash for touchdowns.

    The whole bounty/cash reward thing really has no place in football.

    As far as the tough talk and challenging manhood… that’s been there from the beginning I’ve heard stories of fist fights for starting jobs, coaches strapping up against players you name it. Look at what the “Bear” used to put his team through.

  • Colt74

    1.”If you’ve got a bunch of 4.0 students on your team, you’re probably not going to be in the playoffs.”
    Coach Thomas

    2. 40 years ago we had the same thing going on. We got stickers for giving “snot bubblers” and more. If ANYONE thinks that it has changed since then…then you are mistaken. Sadly,…but still mistaken.

    Football always has been and always will be a FULL CONTACT SPORT. There HAS to be a reason for the helmets and the pads…I’m sure it is not to make the kids just carry the extra weight like a jockey…Show me a coach that says to his guys “Be careful…just play hard enough but be sure to not get aggressive out there” and I’ll show you a coach packing up his office the next season.

    Saladays reminded me of the “CIRCLE JERK”. You kept your job by being in the center of the circle and fighting off all the other players the coaches sent at you. And this was done every week.

  • Coach Slayer

    This subject is way to complex than just a few lines and way to easy to make football look like a game played by animals and coached by sadists. While neither is completly true both types can be found even in halls of the Vatican and Mormon Temple. I think most players know that a coach is just trying to fire up the engines with locker room rhetoric and after the first few hits on the field most know its going to be long fight won as a team but fighting one on one battles in the trenches. The most dangerous techniques taught by many high school coaches are the crack back blocks and cutting at the knees by undersized lineman. Clearly illegal and dangerous but players are encouraged to do it anyways. If a penalty is incurred once in awhile for it so be it.But to throw winning programs or 4.0 programs under the bus with a “You gotta be a thug to win in football” attitude is unfair and simple minded. While I could spend all day writing my argument I,am sure others will help me defend the game while the media once again stirs the pot by blaming all football from Pop Warner up as being full up with a bunch of crazies and that Mama better keep little Johnny home and teach him another sport.

  • Aaron

    Colt 74…I guess Coach Thomas never stepped foot near Stanford and Notre Dame.

  • Colt74

    Come back to this planet.
    The above statement from a high school coach…given to the tribune during an interview about high school football is in context of:

    a) about the NFL
    b) about College
    c) about High School
    d) about the land speed of an African sparrow

    ( insert Jeopardy theme music here )

    Remember to throw out the detractor…

  • How to play the game

    Coaches coach in different ways and every kid has a different motivator. I have coached offensive line at a local high school for 10 plus years and we don’t have bounties. You teach your players to play physical and we preach physicality. I teach my lineman to lock on to the chest plate and drive their feet. Once you get em moving, throw your hips and finish him into pancake. I want them to be physical and put a physical beating on the defender they’re blocking, but I want it done within the rules. I preach finish your blocks, which means they hit the ground and you end up on top. By the end of the game, we want the defender physically beat up and spent, not injured. Having read the words Williams said on TV, i only saw one thing where he crossed the line. I felt like the whole “head thing” was euphemism for cutting off the head of a snake, but I may be wrong. I did not watch the video though.

    Coach Slayer, it sounds like you are referring to the cut block, which is a completely legal technique that an undersized lineman can use as long as the defender is not engaged with someone else. I teach it as a tool to use occasionally, but not to depend on. The high low block or chop block is illegal. It is where one lineman has a defender engaged and another lineman cuts his legs. Completely unethical and wrong, yet I see a handful of teams do it all the time. I teach my linemen what it is and to NEVER do it. I assume you misspoke and know the difference, because there are a lot of dummies out there who don’t know the difference.

  • Stanford Dad

    This reminds me of the current fascination with street-cred-o-mania where tattoos and low rider pants instantly make you a tough guy. Greg Williams was cheating the game, cheating the league, cheating his players, his head coach and his owner, but most importantly he was cheating period.

    In a society that values winning above all else what does it really matter right?

    Look at the Patriots and how many rings have been handed out to those rule breakers and game cheaters. Will any of those cheaters be kept out of the HOF, probably not. So why not right?

    Not every one is willing to play the game, or life, that way. The Williams is what is wrong with our society today. Some one correctly mentioned Stanford, where my youngest will attend on a full academic ride. This past week when the women’s team lost in the NCAA semi’s they were mentioning a particular senior who the color commentator mentioned, “If she were to run for President of The United States of America it would be of no surprise. She’s that outstanding!”

    “Sports doesn’t build character it only reveals it”, truer words have never been spoken.

    Of note, only individuals who can’t compete on a level playing field need to cheat. Just look at this historically, always the same.

    For that reason Bill Walsh and John Wooden trump Bobby Knight and Bill bellyCheat.

    Disgusting! The thought that anyone would brag about intentionally ending careers is flat out criminal ! Watching Drew Brees say, “We’re a family and this hurts. We all hurt when a family member has to suffer like this”. So it’s come to this?

  • Mike the Clone



    Just good ole fashion old school football. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard the same thing from coaches that I have had over the years.

    Some of these pansies need to go back to the old NFL films vaults and listen to guys like Butkis,Ditka,Deacon Jones,Alzado.These dude wanted to take your frecking heag off.

    In fact here ya go!!

    This is nothing new!! If you can’t handle it go play jaxs.


    Mike the Clone

  • The Clone! Just when you think he’s the third car back in the drive-thru, The Clone shocks you with a take from nowhere about the old school.

    Great to hear from you!

  • Lancelot

    Some of it seems pretty much like Old School Football Talk. I agree that the whole “Kill the Head” talk was a euphemism regarding a snake BUT the comment about the ACL was straight “Dirty”!!!! To encourage guys to tear a guys outside ACL, is not cool. Where’s the common respect, the brotherhood. Sure everyone will try to put a lick on a guy to try and knock him out of a game but hopefully it’s a clean hit. Deliberately taking away a man’s livelihood with a career ending cheap shot is just not called for. IMO.

  • Colt74

    My all-time favorite LB….

  • Coach Slayer

    You will always have cheating football players and coaches no matter what, just like you will always have cage fighters and the atom bomb. You cant put the cat back in the bag after its been out. Cheats and push the envelope types will continue to be with us. Some of the dirtiest players came from religious schools with ethical coaching and vissa-versa. There may be a player or two who has quit out of fear of getting hurt but not many. You play with the players you have not the players you dont have and coach up those guys the best you can with the values that in been instilled in you. Obviously values range widely in football coaches.

  • Joe Amat

    Lemme ask the coaches in the room (i know you’re lurking). You always hear every coach who is facing a team with an injury to a key player say, “I hope he gets better” or “I wish we were facing them at full strength”. Are they lying? Would you rather play a team with a key player injured so you can “win”? Tell the truth? And if so, isn’t THAT being “pansies” by wanting to play against any team that is less than their best? How “manly” is that?

    So if that’s the case, if you REALLY want to be “manly” and beat a team ” at their best” – isn’t it a bit cowardly to try and injure a player to put the team at “less than their best”….so you can “win”?

    Is that “winning”? Or is that pretty much the same as hoping to move the best teams out of your division so the teams less behind have a better chance to “win”? Or hoping to move down to a lower division against teams of a lower caliber so you might be able to “win”?

    To me, it’s all the same garment cut from the same cloth and smells a bit more like cowardice than manliness. But I’d rather get knocked out than run away, I’d rather play on the big courts than the short rims, I’d rather try to block your shot and get dunked on than get outta the way, and I’d rather play against the best team at full strength than fake my way to a victory.

    But maybe that’s just me.

  • the lion

    You mean like Monrovia?

  • Stanford Dad

    Joey well said as usual. Who are these cowards who call do righters “pansies”? Nothing but the best, that’s what I want from my opponent. NO excuses, NO alibis, NO woulda, coulda, shouldas in my game. When you look at Jack Lambert, as someone mentioned, all you see is outstanding form tackling, plain and simple. Did he jaw, intimidate and cause havoc, sure! That’s what LBs do but I do recall on that same legendary defense Ham and Russell who were actually even better at their positions than Jack and all three were form tacklers and not cheap shot artists.

    Any one who says it’s okay to play the game to purposely injure players has no place in sports, period.

    In fact the best defensive player of all time, Lawrence Taylor, took out Joe Theismen on national TV and I’m sure every one remembers his INSTANT reaction once he heard the bone break. If anything he was the first to call for help! And no one was better, faster, stronger, meaner or more relentless than LT, NO ONE !! Not even Butkus.

    On any given play a player can be taken out. If you’ve played the game you know this is true but why do it? I played against future NFL players who were dominating unlike any thing I’ve ever seen and it was just as easy to injure them as get my ass kicked but it was an honor to play against them. And in reality an even bigger honor to see them in the NFL.

    Just like coaches, or players, who condone steroids or supplements in young kids it’s all unsavory.

    I’ve had 7 knee surgeries and two shoulder surgeries and it’s no joke. Who in their right mind would condone this kind of stupidity? In a world of sports that could leave a player in a wheel chair like Damien’s Kenny Gibson why would any one want that? Now putting a bounty on players in an effort to win a game? Can’t imagine any thing more cowardly. Imagine being the player who, while trying to injure a player actually does. I once had a player try and spear my knee after the play only to see that same player break, and end, his teammates career after I just happen to turn around and he hit the wrong player AFTTER the whistle. What a scene! Completely broke his leg at knee so bad he was sitting down while standing ! Almost mad me vomit it was so grotesque !

    Play thru the whistle, play hard, play smart and talk sht if it motivates you but systematically doing what’s been said…WOW !

  • Aaron

    If that was supposed to be a motivational speech to get me amped…no wonder they went out and got stomped by SF early on in the game. Williams definitely is not charistmatic.

  • Mike the Clone


    Stanford Dad,

    It may surprise you, but, I do agree with you and my good friend Joe in theory. But I’m not seeing anything or hearing anything new in what hasn’t been going on for years. LT and Butkis were out to take somebody’s head off and they just plain come right out and said it. Do you honestly think LT wasn’t out to take Theisman out or just put the hurt on the guy? If you think he wasn’t then your in dream land. I’m sure LT went back to the sideline going “Hey guys let’s back off on playing like wild crazed dogs because if we hurt Joe we won’t be playing their best guys and what will everyone think if we beat them not at their best”. Come On Really?? In all my years of playing and coaching at all levels except the professional level I have NEVER heard a guy say anything close to that.

    I guess you and Joe played offense because you both sound really concerned about getting hurt. (Ha Ha Ha just a little ribbing Joe) I hate talking about my playing days because it makes me sound like an old fart and a washed up JAA coach, but on the defensive side of the ball everyone of my coaches in high school and college taught us to make those “pansies” on the offensive side pay and pay big. Make those guys wake up the next morning saying “man that guy kicked my ass yesterday” If I were playing against you, your damn right I was coming after you and I could care less how many knee or shoulder surgeries you had. My job was to plant your ass in the ground PERIOD! I wasn’t concern about your team playing at full strength. I wanted the W in my column. I guess I was one of those crazed dogs and thrived on it. I guess. Not to worry I have mellowed in my old age. I realized that I’m not as invisible as I once thought I was.

    With that said I think I know where you and Joe Amat are coming from. It is getting more ink and air time because of the concussion discussion going on nowadays. It is a huge concern as the athletes today are bigger and stronger. Hell I’m a little guy compared to some of these seniors kids today (Well maybe not at Glendora where no lineman is over 5’11).These kids today are more specialized and are better trained. Do I think guys should be paid for putting the hurt on guys? NO! Do I think some coaches in their pregame get so amped up that they say crazy stuff? Yes!! After all it’s a violent game.

    Great discussion and I think that if you, Joe Amat, Aram and myself sat around a table discussing this with a few beers we’d all come to an agreement on this topic sooner or later. I guess I’m just old school in a lot of ways.

    Thanks for letting me throw my “Take” in the ring!!

    I AM OUT!!!

    Mike the Clone

  • sgvpride

    @Stanford Dad

    Actually Bob Knight has always had the highest graduation rates of any coach during his time. I think it was 97 percent. And has never been charged with any NCAA violations(at least no major ones) and has spoke against cheaters of the game. People do not agree with how he did things but he did get things done. I’m sorry if it was off the topic but it always bothers me when people try and use Bob Knight as some kind of NCAA violater. He did choke a player and was fired for it. Never cheated.

  • Nothing New

    Every (Defensive or Head) Coach in America rallies up his players by encouraging them to play physical. This speech is nothing new. I am not saying it is correct or coaches should be allowed to teach players to hurt players on purpose, but I have heard similar speeches several times. BTW Diamond Ranch fields students with 4.0 or greater every season and they do make the playoffs. Academics and football does exist.

  • Stanford Dad

    Mike the Clone,

    Played my best football at the safety position when clothes lining was part of the game and my heroes were George Atkinson and Jack Tatum, hardly shrinking violets. From Dennis Smith to Ronnie Lott to Steve Atwater to John Lynch “we” all had or get clean shots to knock players out of the game or separate players from the ball make them grow alligator arms but you will see that at my favorite position my “heroes” were all feared but never called out as being dirty, vicious yes, but dirty no. At least not by football players or people in the know, apologies ti the media at the time that was clueless and on a witch hunt after Darrell Stingley went down.

    The “game” is violent, relentless and not for the weak of mind but premeditated acts of taking people out is why they outlawed the crack back on defenseless defensive players. This move was really a bounty of sorts as the game saw tons of great defensive players lost to the offensive revenge move.

    My point isn’t to lose the violent, which is your point, but to eliminate the premeditation. Mike ask yourself these questions, “At that speed how much of an injury is enough? How much of the result of trying to end a player’s career is enough? And what would you say to a wheel chair bound player who was a targeted athlete?”. Who’s going to speak to the player who did that? Is a “W” enough?

    When I played Offensive guard I left games exhausted, more than on defense for one reason, DL and LB just want to beat on you and rarely get to the ball as often as they should because they get fooled easily, lol. Just look at the recent area CIF Champions who score 40,50, 60, 70 and 80 yard runs thru defenses who can’t find the ball.

    Finally the point about Bobby Knight is this, has a fantastic basketball mind, or did until his act got old and players realized what a scum bag he was off the court. In fact he once threw a planter at a secretaries head for telling him he didn’t have an appointment to see the President of the University. The woman was a in her 60’s.

    While his graduation rates are to be applauded his boorish behavior crossed the line and his documented choking of a player, which he didn’t have the balls to admit to and had IU students making death threats to the player in question. Again completely gutless to say nothing of his bitching and whining once he was proven a liar and a coward.

    In the end playing a game for your team is as important as playing the game the right way. Just as in life it’s not easy to call out a gutless coach and watch those gutless coaches abuse kids year after year, and get away with it, because they get “w’s . (small w for sure) Winning isn’t every thing, the game is. Ask any winner and they’ll tell yo no one is bigger than the game, nobody.

  • AyalaBulldogFan

    Chino Hills HS brags about the guys they’ve sent off the field in helicopters… the Damien player will never walk again. Bounty? Maybe, maybe not. Too much of a conicidence IMHO.

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