Mt. SAC Area ad hoc committee drafts idea that would send San Dimas, South Hills AND Charter Oak to the Hacienda League …

An ad hoc committee for the Mt. SAC Area on Tuesday drafted an idea that would change the complexion of the Hacienda League in a way not yet heard during this round of re-leaguing proposals.

The new idea would put Charter Oak, San Dimas and South Hills in the Hacienda League along with current Hacienda schools West Covina, Walnut and Los Altos.

It’s important to remember that Tuesday’s meeting of the ad hoc committee was merely a brainstorming session. The committee is made up of a principal and an athletic director from each of the six leagues that comprise the Mt. SAC Area. The six leagues are: Montview, Valle Vista, Mt. Baldy, Baseline, Sierra and Hacienda.

The group will meet again next Tuesday to finalize the three proposals they will put forward at next month’s area meeting, which will all but make official the new plans for the area. In the past, the ad hoc committee had considerable power but given that individual schools can now make proposals, the influence is less.

The remainder of the league ideas are as follows:

– Los Osos, Etiwanda, Rancho,Claremont, Glendora,Colony
– Ayala, Bonita, Chino, Diamond Bar, Chino Hills, Upland
– Chaffey, Don Lugo, Ontario, Montclair, Alta Loma, Diamond Ranch
– Baldwin Park, Covina, Nogales, Northview, Wilson, Rowland
– Duarte, Gladstone, Azusa, La Puente, Sierra Vista, Workman
– Garey, Pomona, Ganesha, Edgewood, Bassett

Aram’s take: Now we’re cooking with oil. This is an outstanding idea and hopefully they stick with it and turn it into a proposal.

  • Football Fan

    Moving Charter Oak to the Southeast is not the right move, by doing so they will simply dominate the Hacienda every single year. Why not just move the Sierra league to another playoff division makes more sense. San Dimas should be put in the Hacienda they been a top team in the Mid Valley and in the Southeast seems to be a better fit.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

      i like your idea !!! By doing it the way the propose , their not really making it fair for anybody!! If DB, Rowland and Los Altos are the bottom feeders, HOW does that make bringing in C.O while losing Bonita fair! They know that already..thats the pisser!

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        I would not worry about CO by the time they get to the SE.

    • GP AKA Green Machine

      Your are absolutely wrong…Charter Oak absolutely belongs in the Hacienda and South East. This is the reason why the committees are suggesting a new placement. The knowledgeable football authorities have solid understanding of demographics. The city of Covina is divided with 2 legit football programs and 2 decent programs. All four schools made the playoffs. There is not enough talent and depth in that city to support placement in upper division football. The only way for CO to play at that level is to get transfers. You can not place a team based upon the “Transfer Factor”. Honestly the Sierra league is actually a South East Caliber division. Despite CHills and Ayala’s finishings the past two years, in the long run those schools can compete in upper division based upon size. If you take away all of the out of Area kids from the CO’s Roster, they are a slightly better version of the Covina Colts. If have not heard any rumors of Lou complaining. Lets wait and see when it’s voting time, If CO protest this…which I don’t think they will, I’ll listen to rubbish like they are too dominant for the South East. Chino Hills wins the Sierra this year anyway.

      • SoccerFan

        Please understand that Ayala has less than 2400 students at the moment and will never have more than 2500. Can someone please explain how that makes Ayala a big school? Please quit living in the past when the school had 4000 students – it is nowhere near those days anymore.

        • GP AKA Green Machine

          Well in that case…put them in the Mt Baldy…Nevertheless Co Doesn’t belong.

          • OuttaYourMindTrib

            Ayala doesn’t belong in the inland division and neither does Chino Hills.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            They went to the Semis…other than Chino Hills the same 4 teams go every year…

          • OuttaYourMindTrib

            Ayala went to the Semi’s??? Maybe BEFORE CHHS existed on a drafting table.

          • Not So Fast My Friend

            Then where should Ayala and Chino Hills go?

          • SoccerFan

            Keep them in the Sierra League and move both back to the Central Division. Neither are asking for relief and Chino Hills is just doing anything they can to stay out of the Baseline. Moving Upland to the Sierra League makes no sense – it would, essentially, be providing a school that doesn’t need relief with relief.

          • OuttaYourMindTrib

            Ayala isn’t asking for relief because they compete in every other sport except the one that pays the bills.

  • reality

    I think I’m getting whats going on . It’s the results of the girls teams that really matter. As in most modern households nowadays, in high school administration the women wear the pants, and they are not football pants.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

    So wait, what would happen to Diamond Bar!

  • WCDan

    Now we’re talking, I like the idea of bringing in CO, San Dimas, and SH, only thing I would change is keep Bonita in Hacienda along with either Los Altos or Diamond Bar and send Walnut for relief.
    So the league would be:
    WC, CO, SD, SH, Bonita, &either DB or LA.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

      I say move Diamond bar to Valle Vista league..LOL

    • Valley Athletics

      Makes sense . Walnut has been bad and is getting worse .

  • Tar’en Supporter

    I know this is foolish thinking that this is about anything other than football and petty issues between the principals, but…

    I’d suggest that the leagues in the area be organized around a promotion/relegation system – like Euro sports leagues and some “Associations” here in the SS. But rather than different leagues for each sport within the group, like the Associations do, the promotion/relegation would be based on how the entire sports program does, weighted for football.

    First, divide the teams by the very real geographic difference, and put all of the San Bernardino County teams in one group. That would be 13 schools in a six team Level 1 league and a seven team Level 1 League. The SBCo schools have a different area code, are in a different county, and are geographically distinct from the SGV. And, this is where the biggest schools with competitive demographics are concentrated. So, Chino Hills and Ayala would move to the SBCo group, and Glendora and Garey would move to the SGV Group.

    With Damien/St. Lucy’s out, that leaves 28 teams in the SGV region. I’d envision a 6 team Level 1 League, an 8 team Level 2 League, and two 7 team Level 3 Leagues, arranged East and West as much as possible. Since there are three levels, two schools would be relegated from the Level 2 league and the top school from each Level 3 league would go up

    Promotion and Relegation would be determined by each school’s performance in every sport – in a six school league, award 5 points for the League Champ and 0 to the sixth place team. Double the points for football. Or even triple it. At the end of the school year, the team with the fewest points in the Level 1 league is relegated to Level 2, and the school with the most in the Level 2 league is promoted. And so on.

    This would take into account the overall strength of a program, and could even encourage schools to give more attention to “minor” sports. It would also make every place in league count in every sport – the difference between fifth and sixth in one sport could determine promotion or relegation. It could even result in AD’s and principals showing up at tennis matches or track meets when the event could decide whether a school goes up or down.

    Most of all, it would take the re-leagueing process out of the realm of politics and would allow the entire process to be determined on the field, court, track and pool.

    This of course has no chance of happening

    • http://twitter.com/JoeAmat Joe Amat

      This actually already happens several places around CiF, and I agree this is a fairly good solution, although others take it one step further – and so would I. I suggest this every time releaguing comes up.

      Check out the Camino Del Rey Association (Amat’s conference), Gold Coast Conference, Western Athletic Conference, Tri County Association, and the Cost View. They all are made of multiple leagues ( 2 or 3 ) that use this system. It would be nice if the schools in our area could figure that out.

      The extra step i mentioned is the schools are in leagues that get “promoted/relegated” by individual sport. If a school is good at girls’ soccer but poor in boys’ basketball they get promoted in soccer – not basketball where they may not belong. In a three league affiliation they may even be relegated in basketball. This is the only way to have competitive equity in all sports, boys and girls.

      • OuttaYourMindTrib

        THAT is the best idea I’ve heard from ANYONE!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Oso-Viejo/100001718155340 Oso Viejo

    I blame the likes of Eric Podley and Kitt Holk and Bob Ketterling for this whole thing.

    If they hadn’t hired the likes of Baumunk, Eckler, and Knott, great teachers all; had they not brought in people like Contreras and Carlson and Rosenberg and Ashby, Bonita wouldn’t be in this fix. They could have had the same type of
    middling athletic program as everyone else but ohhhhhh no, not the Bearcats. Naw, the Bearcats have to go out and find young, committed, energetic, knowledgeable educators to lead THEIR young athletes. Like they’re all special or something.

    Jeez, bad enough they have one of the best academic programs in the SGV and downright embarrassing when you look at other programs like the fine arts and such. You would think THAT would be enough but ohhhhhh no, it’s year after year after year, league titles and playoff runs year after freakin’ year.

    Come on Bob, ease up a little, will ya?

    Well, now finally the good old Pine Street plenipotentiaries can make the Cats pay. Pay at least on the football field because it’s pretty rare for someone to get squashed in a Volleyball game or a Water Polo match. Nope, it’s the football field where the butchers bill will be presented and the ones asked to pay will be those recruits from the basketball and baseball and soccer programs just like always. Maybe the CIF-SS brain trust figures that those injuries incurred in the fall will even things up in the winter and spring seasons.

    • http://twitter.com/aramtolegian Aram Tolegian

      No matter how wrong this may be, it’s hard for me to feel bad for Bonita because it pushed hard to get CO run off to the Sierra League … and now it’s happening to them.

      • Not So Fast My Friend

        haha! What’s that saying, “what goes around…?”

      • Dirty Hawk

        The difference between what happened to CO and what is happening to Bonita right now is that everyone wanted CO out because they were/are a hard core recruiting school for football and Bonita is a local high school that uses the kids within their district. Having CO in your league for football is like having to play against a private school within a public school league. CO is constantly complaining about their school size, but school size is irrelevant when you recruit like CO. Amat has only 1200 students and we don’t hear them complaining that they should not be in the PAC-5 with the likes of LBP with has 5,000 students.

        • GP AKA Green Machine

          Preach! The Recruiting has fell off there since their big years with a Westco, Pasadena, Monrovia, Duarte All star team they assembled. As more kids stay local, you will see their talent base settle down to what it actually is…and they almost have to move down.

          • http://twitter.com/aramtolegian Aram Tolegian

            I think a lot of kids play the Amat/CO game. If it’s not going well at one place, they go to the other.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Yeah, they transfer back and forth between those two schools. Both schools are struggling in thier current Divisions. They would have to combine both of the teams to be competitive in Pac5 or Inland. The Selling point for both schools is” Leave your local lower division school to Come play against the big boys”. They also point to fact that schools in the SGV are not on their level and can not compete with them. That’s obvious if guys leave their local schools to huddle up at BA or CO. If they get moved from their upper divisions, they will lose the luster that attracts the areas best players to their schools. The Mt Sac committee is thinking miles ahead of the average blogger. They know the difference from a transfer hot bed to a school with a legit talent pool.

          • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

            I think your on to something Aram!

      • Aaron

        And who didn’t want CO gone, it’s obvious that South Hills may have been overmatched. Bonita is a school with a Football team, not a football school. Yes we have a legit tradition or titles and a state title. However, our last one was in ’99, our last bout was in ’10 and we almost had it. But heck we have a diving title from ’09, yes apparently the Hacienda is a weak league in the dive. I thought this blog was about Football, Bonita hasn’t been a 5A school for over four decades.

  • Valley Athletics

    Move up Monrovia and move down south hills and charter oak would make south east more competive . Diamond bar , walnut , Rowland , Los altos , Wilson and nogales would make a good league .

    • AMAT 73

      Valley,
      Monrovia can’t deal with SH now , what makes you think they will if they meet in the SE playoffs . Maybe they should schedule WC,CO,DR and get the feel of it first before they take such a big step up.

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        lol…The series is 1-2… you act as if we never beat them before…Geesh…

        • AMAT 73

          GP,
          Damn didn’t think you would hit on this so fast .I never said you haven’t beaten them , just said you can’t deal with them in your RHL/MV manner , that’s all .

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            I think beating someone is dealing with them… are you going to use that same logic for BA and their opponents…I mean at least mtown was playing a team 9 divisions above the RHL and MV…

          • AMAT 73

            GP,
            Well when you’re D-11 most teams you play or should play will be divisions above you . No knock just fact . AMAT is not even in this conversation except when you bring them into it . If this was about the PAC-5 and dropping teams down and AMAT comes up there ,we will disscuss that , but until then stay on the subject matter. If we could play teams above our division you know damn well we would but guess what , well you know the answer . Even still we do play PAC-5 teams in preseason as well as in league . I am sure to make you happy we should play nothing but PAC-5 teams always .By the way the manner line was more of a compliment of your play in the RHL/MV as you usually beat all comers , don’t you ?????????

          • http://twitter.com/JoeAmat Joe Amat

            Pac5 teams are in a bit of a conundrum. You want to play the best teams you can, but there is a certain sentiment among coaches that does not like the prospect of playoff rematches. For that reason, if you subscribe to that line of thinking, it becomes necessary to find the best teams available at lower divisions like a La Habra, La Mirada, Charter Oak, West Covina, or a Chino Hills. Sometimes you take a gamble and a borderline team like Cathedral has a devasting injury at QB , it becomes a big mismatch and a wasted week. Tough to find that balance and really have a consistent schedule that prepares you for league and playoffs but does not devastate a team with injuries.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            You know I keep BA in every conversation…They are our beacon of light in a lower division football world…PAC 5!!!That’s the point… Monrovia can only play up. Monrovia plays teams that other MVL teams don’t play. That’s why they smoke the competition in their division. As they move up into the southeast, they will have to schedule a much tougher schedule. While everyone is laughing at Monrovia, they are the one’s not playing the schedules needed to prepare themselves. Bishop Amat plays down in preseason. They play a schedule that does not get them ready for league. LM, SP, CO, and Chills all under achieved and were not up to par for their division. So, if BA is playing those teams and you are a Pac 5 team, well then you are not as prepared as other pac 5 teams. If you noticed last season, the Serra league teams had so so preseason schedules(according to their Standards). You are acting as if other pac 5 teams don’t take chances by playing great teams. Well they do, unless you play in the Trinity. Some travel to Oceanside, or Grant (Sacramento) or they play the top teams in City section Etc….You have to play at least one or two underdog games especially when you are going to be a underdog in league and post season…Plus BA should not be worried about depth to the point they fear schedule losable games, BA has like 90 kids on the roster….only 22 of them are good enough to play? Come on…

    • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

      YES! i like..like the OLD Sierra League!!!

      • AMAT 73

        PT,
        And what vintage would that be ??????? Remember you have some old timers in here too. I was thinking more WC , SH , LA , put CO for Edgewood and Bonita for LP , no disrespect but I don’t think they are ready for those teams and DR so you have six teams ,that’s if all this madness doesn’t go thru with moving Bonita to D-2 if indeed that is where the Sierra stays .They are a top Southeast team no doubt , but not ready for the Inland .That league would be the premier league of the SGV .Then in four years move the dominator if there is one to one of the D-3 leagues and bring up the top performer of the other league in the Mt Sac ,somewhat similar to what Ta’ren and JA wrote . Note Damien was not included because they belong in the Mission in my opinion but if they follow thru and win , take out DR and insert Damien or have a 7 team league .Send 3 to the playoffs and watch out . All good solid football teams , always .

        • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

          Well im talking more in regards to Diamond Bar being played fair! Did you see the other proposal ..in which they would throw DB in with Chino, C.H,Upland, Ayala?? Whoever drafted that had it out for DB! All im saying is that there is a bit of fowl play by some of those involved in the committee to reward some and blatantly screw others!

        • A man named Jed

          I’m mostly good with you on this line up, however, I would substitute Glendora for Los Altos

  • BigBoy

    I don’t think San Dimas should be in with Charter Oak and South Hills. Look at school size. They have an enrollment of 1250. The Valley Vista is a perfect place for San Dimas.

    • OuttaYourMindTrib

      School population has to stop being the number one consideration.

  • 80′s Klassik

    I like all these possiblities I think all of these leagues are all evenly spread out and evenly competetive

  • http://www.facebook.com/mark.ramos.902819 Mark Ramos

    Charter Oak claims its football team is good enough to play with the big boys in Div 2 and as soon as the playoffs start they get whacked so now they want to step down!! They absolutely dont belong in the Hacienda!! They need to have an AD who cares about creating a well rounded athletic program!

  • Dirty Hawk

    With the whole idea of re-leaguing being for competitive purposes, I’m a little surprised that there is so much talk about there being any changes to the Hacienda. The Hacienda has been the most balance competitive league in the SGV over the past 3 years. Every team with the exception of Diamond Bar has made the playoffs in Football over the past three years and last year there was a 4 way tie for the League Championship. With nearly every team in the Hacienda having had some success over the past 3 years, why would anyone think of changing things up?

    • 90′s Spartan

      It’s true that Hacienda football has been competitive, But there are more sports to consider than football. Look at Bonita for example because they are going to be moved up. Since the Hacienda was formed, boys basketball is 35-1 in league and baseball is 28-1 in league. Those athletes and coaches deserve tougher competition.

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        With Damien Football Struggling, more players may skidaddle over to Bonita to play inland football there for Free.

    • GP AKA Green Machine

      The South East has two leagues with 7 teams(hacienda and suburban) and the pacific has 8 teams. IF they break those down to 6 team leagues and create a additional competitive 5 team league, I think that would help make the South Better. Teams like Hoover, Glendale, Cerritos, Artesia, and Warren all hurt their League and the Division. Those leagues are too big. You can move teams like Rowland in or out, but I think this is something the SE committee should look at.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ptyrone Patrick Tyrone

      Exactly! so what you are sayin is that Diamond Bar should get the relief right?

      • Dirty Hawk

        Not at all, DBar was competitive last year with alot of young kids. If memory serves me right they beat one of the league Co-Champions (Bonita) and finished only 1 game out of 1st place. My bet is that DBar finishes in the money this year and makes the playoffs. Personally I think they should leave the Hacienda as is.

  • Dirty Hawk

    Basketball is irrelevant when it come to league play due to the fact that your league record has nothing to do with the playoffs. Every team in league plays in separate divisions come playoff time and even league bottom feeders make the playoffs.

  • Mark Hargrave

    This is a nice post in an interesting line of content. Thanks for sharing this article, great way of bring such topic to discussion.

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