San Dimas challenges Jake Payton’s transfer to Upland on grounds of athletic motivation and undue influence …

San Dimas, which originally said it would not challenge running back Jake Payton’s transfer to Upland, has had a change of heart and will dispute the senior standout’s move to Upland on grounds of athletic motivation and undue influence.

“We had a change of heart, it’s a group decision,” Saints football coach Bill Zernickow said. “My opinion is that you can’t say nothing if something happened.”

Zernickow declined to discuss the matter further.

Payton was a Tribune All-Area running back and Valle Vista League MVP last season after rushing for 1,628 yards and 22 touchdowns as a junior. Payton left San Dimas for Upland at the end of the school year and has been participating in summer practices and passing competitions with the Scots.

Payton is expected to be Upland’s featured back this season.

Aram’s take: This just got real interesting. Now San Dimas will have to show there was athletic motivation and/or undue influence. How they go about doing that, I don’t know. Payton also has to be ready to prove that there wasn’t. Stay tuned …

  • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

    People GIVE IT UP already! If kids dont want to play for you then whats the point?? That only leads to the underlying idea that coaches and administration are BITTER!!! That should be grounds alone to drop the challenge!

    • AMAT 73

      Now the question is will SD and Coach Z get dragged over the coals as WC and their coach were . Coach Z ” MY OPINION IS YOU CAN’T SAY NOTHING IF SOMETHING HAPPENED ” so if let’s see how this pans out . Big difference in doing the right thing ( letting the kid go ) or doing what’s right ( rules violation ) .

      • New York

        Also, did Coach Z actually witness something happening, or is it hearsay? Why was the SD protest so delayed? I wonder if Coach Z was influenced by his bosses on this one.

    • MonkeyWrench

      It aint bitterness it given a taste of his own medisin. Someone has to stick up for da kids left behind. When a kid like Payton be leaving it has an impact on da program and da other kids dat invested a lot in Payton. I like it because Payton dont be caring about anyone else why should day be caring about him.

      • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

        He is a human being NOT a piece of property!

        • MonkeyWrench

          so are da kids left behind

          • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

            okay so you proved my point!

      • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

        This whole “Your gonna play for me or nobody ” How ridiculous does that sound!??

  • GP AKA Green Machine

    Wow,

    This is a shocker!!! We have all been arguing should be kids allowed to transfers….the Answer is “Yes”. Now lets say that Peyton and Family, had no intentions of transferring until someone From Upland, puts a offer or promises playing time in other words influences him. Should that school allow for this? I guess they should make recruiting legal in High school. There will always be influence, there will always be illegal contact and communications between coaches and players…In 2013, it’s hard to believe that any coach is not doing this. Just scrap the rule and let the cards fall where they may. If a football program sucks, it really only effects 100-150 kids…let them go some where an play, and school districts save money by not having a team. The end results is that kids will lose valuable years of their life. Now if Hull and Peyton are both denied…that’s two all CiF kids missing huge years in their careers. This is just crazy…

  • Jimmy the Greek

    I applaud the SD staff for challenging this transfer. Upland clearly used undue influence in recruiting this kid as well as several others. However, I think the sanctions need to be more directed at the coaching staffs that violate the rules and tamper with kids in programs other then their own. I would like to see coaches get 1 year suspensions for 1st time violations and lifetime bans for 2nd offenses. If CIF would simply come down hard on some of these coaches I think a lot of this undue influence garbage would disappear overnight. The NCAA and NFL have hardcore penalties for coaches and organizations that violate these types of rules.

    • WCDan

      Great Point JTG.

  • Saints Fan

    Let’s get things out there right now, this situation was NOT known after the last game. This player was in 7th period football and working out with team during the Winter after the season and leading into Spring Football. This player went to the first few days of Spring Football, then suddenly stopped. The problem is there isn’t most likely gonna be any direct ties to the Coaching staff. The common knowledge is it goes through others, I will leave it at that you can route through other threads to see where that smoke leads.

    Like Greenie I am very surprised by the statement that Payton was going to be the Featured Back. Given the fact that there were returning guy’s in the Program who have shown what they can due in the Inland Division. You also have Elijah Jones who transferred in from Damien who has every bit the Skills of Payton (although, maybe he is focusing on Defense) and a little better size, but maybe not as strong physically and a year younger and rumor of other guy’s who came in also and possibly another on the way. So very surprised that Upland Coaches would have said he was the Featured Back coming from Mid Valley.
    It would also be informative to know how the challenge went down. To satisfy Amat73′s statement of doing the right thing vs doing what is right. To fully release a kid, the Principal, AD & Coach from OLD school has to attest that they are NOT AWARE of ANY contact, undue influence, participation on an outside team that has ties (uh oh) during the last 24 months…. so if ALL SD did was say they could not ATTEST to any of those facts, then wouldn’t they be doing the right thing and NOT lying about it. Because signing the form and Attesting to that statement when you are unsure would in fact be lying.
    I’m all for if a kid doesn’t want to be here, don’t force him to stay. But at some point in life, there are consequences. With transfers it always has been Russian roulette in many instances with very few bullets in the gun. But every know and then, there just might be a bullet. Looks like possibly Hull & Payton are finding the bullet.

    • AMAT 73

      Saints fan,
      That is exactly what I mean by my line . Doing right thing is let the kid play if no influence is found to have happened , but once knowledge of influence is known to the school, doing what’s right is to follow the rules and report what you know . So, many may not like what SD and WC have done , but they did follow the rules by reporting undue influence to CIF . Now this might be old school morals to our moderator but basically it is following the rules. Now does anyone out there know what the penalties are to a school that knew of influence towards a player but choose to overlook it and CIF finds out ?????? Bottom line is it is very unfair to the players but who’s at fault for not following the guidelines when it comes to transferring ??????

      • Saints Fan

        You bring up a great point. By the time the CIF get’s it, wouldn’t all the signatures be on the Form ? Soooo, if it is found out that there is a “deniable” occurrence and everyone signed off saying everything is good, shouldn’t someone get slapped? I get the student, as he / she doesn’t get to play, but that means a Prior School and NEW School signed off also. They can’t always say, well the player / parents said everything was fine.

        • GP AKA Green Machine

          Saints, The reason why I brought that up is because you don’t transfer into Upland and get the starting job unless you are stud. 99% of the transfers are studs. Upland who is in title contention would not bring in a scrub. One of two things happen, A…. Upland is taking a shot in the dark on a wing-t Midvalley kid who was not the best back in his division last season. Or B. they got a real good look at Mr Peytons skills at some point, while he was still a part of the SD football program. it’s not the same as a kid transferring from Inland down to midvalley. Or to a championship caliber team. That’s no disrespect to the mid. If SD was a single or dual back team, the kid from SG would not have transferred there. He came because they use 3-4 backs and they all get touches. That’s why I think he chose SD. Otherwise he would be somewhere where he thought he could start…We have to keep things real. I think upland was using Mr Payton to add depth to their stable of excellent talent, and he fell for it… He is far from a scrub but, I don’t know if he is a inland feature back, like Scoby… Sad but true.

          • Saints Fan

            I agree with you brother and I have seen both sides !

          • AMAT 73

            GP,

            It just might be at Upland they have figured a way to use Payton in their offense to their benefit ( the inside looking out , them , not the outside looking in , you ) . You have to remember aside from having stud backs , they have stud linemen . Those holes will open up a little more frequently for Payton at Upland then they would at SD and he was a pretty damn good back there .Maybe you see Payton only for what he did at SD and in the Mid Valley , but behind the line at Upland he could be an entirely different back and give Upland what they feel they need .Also I’ve noticed you haven’t addressed my post to you on the Gerhart thread, you know the one about talking Monrovia /AMAT talk , what gives ?????????

          • New York

            Exactly! During Upland’s first CIF Championship, Edric Rycroft and Andre Bishop shared carries. Maybe Salter is going old school.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            I have to go back and look at that thread. As far as saying that Uplands line is going to make Payton a different player…I don’t know. The LB’s and DB’s are bigger and faster in the Inland as well so it all levels out. I thought that the success Payton Had against the Mtown Backers which were D1, was due more to misdirection and the confusion that the wing Z creates. Maybe Upland, adds some of that to their offense. After watching him, I would still say that adjusting to speed of the Inland vs the Valle Vista League is going to be the difference. Now you factor in the point that he is still not eligible, means that in a few weeks, How many reps do think he is going to get while upland is preparing for the season? If he had a entire year to learn their offense, get reps, ETC, then maybe the transition would work itself out. With all that being said, I think it’s a stretch to say he is going to be the “feature back” Especially at a school that has so much talent. Now on the flip side what type of performance do you think Kurt Scoby is going to have in the midvalley? It’s not going to look like what Peyton did. That’s the comparison, if you want to turn this inside out….Payton is one of the midvalley Players who can make the jump, I just don’t think he is going to make the major impact that is being pushed on these threads.

          • AMAT 73

            GP,

            Common sense tells you he will not be the ” featured back ” but could be a piece to a multiple back offense . As you say no one knows Upland’s plan and how they plug him in . You to rambling on about eligibility and getting reps that were planned on getting is irrelevent because at the time of the transfer no one thought it would be challenged , that is after the fact so that only has bearing going forward and if I am not mistaken he can still be a part of passing league and so forth until a decision is made as I saw where Noodles participated this past weekend with DB . On what I think Scoby will do this season , of course a great season for him is on the horizon by being that man among children that I mentioned in that other post and anything less would be letdown . Funny you mention those D-1 backers having trouble with their reads , that sort of pertains to my other post also .

      • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

        BUt in Noodles case, all there is a letter, but in that letter its not necessarily stating Noodles was influenced athletically by any outside sources right?

        • AMAT 73

          discus,

          I believe his Dad sent the e-mail to coach at WC stating their case on position and playing time or something to that effect. A parent if I am not mistaken can by a e-mail of that nature cause athletic motivation for the transfer as was the case with the players who transferred to SH a couple of years back. The thing is if you want to improve you childs chances on the field by transferring , keep it to yourself and move on without stirring up the pot especially when you have a change of address on your side .

          • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

            But in this case, if Noodles already had a change of address, isnt that a good fighting point?

  • reality

    Aram where is your outrage now?. You have been non ;stop in your opinions of let kids play no matter what, and now suddenly you’ve gone soft? Is it because you like Zernikow that you are now pulling your punches or what. C’mon gimme some of that vitriol you are noted for on this issue. This action should be driving you crazy if you are consistent.

  • Fatligian

    If there is anyone to blame, I cast the first stone at the Upland staff.

    • Not So Fast My Friend

      Isn’t that interesting how prime athletes just fall into their lap. lol

  • The Truth Will Set You Free

    The hypocrisy here is so amazing. According to people I know around the SD Camp, they just had 3 players transfer in from South Hills. This is on top of the leading rusher from San Gabriel that transferred in for his senior year. You can’t have it both ways. Change of heart??? Z and the SD Boys are not Saints.

    • MonkeyWrench

      Dat only matters if Z went to get those playas like upland do. Nobody saying transfers dont happen but how dat happen is key diff.

      • The Truth Will Set You Free

        MonkeyWrench, do you believe what you just posted? 3 players just decide to leave SH for the stellar academics, I mean football at SD without any influence? Same with the SG running back? No undue influence or athletic motivation? Its funny how people and the players knew about these transfers before they happened, but there was no pre-enrollment contact. Laughable.
        If you do believe what you said, is it so hard to believe and such a stretch of the imagination that there was not undue influence or athletic motivation on Payton’s part?

        • MonkeyWrench

          You show me am example where Z or his coaches be coaching those playas in da off season. I be right there wit you man. Answer dis did Payton play for an Upland coach in da off season?

          • SuperMan_87

            Mikey, wazup? How you bean man?

          • SuperMan_87

            Zahn give me a call. I loss yur numba. You no who dis be.

    • AMAT 73

      Truth,
      You must realize if these kids by their own free will wanted to transfer to SD then there is no issue . It is up to SH and SG to challenge the transfers if they have evidence of foul play . So in reality there is no hypocrisy of recieving transfers if done within the rules set by CIF .

      • The Truth Will Set You Free

        Within in the rules is a great line. What you mean is if you don’t get caught. This is why this rule should be removed completely. The hypocrisy in this case lies with the assertion that SD is taking the moral high ground and doing what they have to in order to comply with CIF. Ok, that’s fine but it’s a two way street. I know for a fact that the coaches knew they were getting the players transferring in and they coaches told the team prior to enrollment. Even if SG or SH signed the form stating no knowledge of contact, shouldn’t SD have stated that they did know of pre enrollment contact. That would be the right thing to do, correct? That’s my point and there’s the hypocrisy.

        I’m glad SN Amat supporter made this comment. From what I heard from someone close to the situation, the Amat head coach called one of Payton’s guardians to discuss him playing there next year. What would your post be then?

        • AMAT 73

          Truth,

          The hypocrisy is the inuendo of personal knowledge by many of all these situations . Also I do not think a coach having knowledge of a player transferring is an infraction if the coach had nothing to do with the player chosing their school . Let me make one thing clear and I think we all agree , to a certain extent mostly all of these transfers are athletically motivated . The question is who did the motivating . If the player is motivated to move to better team to show his skills then that’s ok , but if he is led to that move by others like coaches or friends of the program , well that’s where the trouble starts On the AMAT hearsay situation I would need further evidence that this actually took place other than someone close to the situation saying they heard it from who knows who .

          • Saints Fan

            No kidding, we all know “someone” who says Amat really wants me to go play for them.

          • Saints Fan

            No kidding, we all know “someone” who says Amat really wants me to go play for them.

          • Not Since 1995

            MrsDoubtFire 73

            You may think I’m not watching, but you would be wrong old man…!

            Bishop NoMas has historicall built their mediocre teams for the last 17 years by stealing the latent from schools like Glendora, Charter Oak, South Hills, Diamond Bar, etc. History shows that is what you do. Member the kid from Glendora a couple of years ago? What about RIO? Betman, Gonsalez? Should I go on…?
            Shut up…Old Man…!

            Not in 2013 either…!

      • Saints Fan

        Truth I am gonna call you out right here, YOU ARE A JOKE… the South Hills kids recruited by San Dimas, you are flippin funny as all heck. They were JV at best players over there, and by the way I think more interested in baseball anyway… but you probably are just stirring stuff, you don’t even know who they are do you, or you wouldn’t have made such a stupid comment…. come on bring your next shot !!!

    • Saints Fan

      Truth see my comment below, posted under Amat73, YOU ARE A JOKE !!! hahahaha, slingin that weak A#$ stuff. Come on, you have something better than that don’t you?

      • The Truth Will Set You Free

        Its sad to me that you are trying to make this a joke as degrade me here. These issues that are before us are very serious. Right now, San Dimas is trying to take away a poor kids future. A kid that is part of the system that has failed him up to this point. A future that would not have been possible if it were not for the family that gave Payton a home. NO JOKE HERE. You want to spout out that you are a SAINTS FAN, which if you truly were, you’d want to see this young man succeed in life and be a success story not only one from SD, but also of Upland. You have chosen to bash this young man on several of the blogs, but if you are in the know as you claim you’d know that SD has nothing that can show this Undue Influence or Athletic Motivation. Again NO JOKE here.

        • Saints Fan

          You know, it is extremely sad, I am making a Joke of YOU for bringing up SD as recruiting kids from South Hills. You brought that on, not me. As for The Kid, I like this Kid very much. His story is amazing. What those care givers have done is AMAZING and I respect them immensely for the selfless actions they have shown. What Coach Z Did for this Kid in Giving him an Environment to Be Successful, to have an Escape and make something out of a BAD situation is Amazing. I have the greatest respect for what has occurred. What I DON’T have respect for is pi##$% that ALL away. Basically telling the “Family of SD” that nurtured this situation that hey thanks, but I am going to listen to someone else who he has been in the picture for a few months and I am going to BLOW off the Players and Friends who I have done battle with for 3+ Years, sorry, gonna get mine ! That’s cool. I WANT to see him Succeed. But sometimes in life, lesson’s must be learned. SD is NOT taking this future away. SD didn’t kick him out. These folks walked out and Rolled the Dice. You want to be angry at someone, you should be placing that venom east of SD. Because this move is not without advice and counsel. This Kid has the potential to be collateral damage. Any actions taken are done not to screw anyone player but maybe, just maybe, because enough is enough. Those individuals whomever they are, will not suffer in this. They will still keep on keepin on.
          You think there is nothing, well, time will tell, maybe you are right. But let me give you a little somethin somethin to ponder. The internet is a very scary place. What you think is private is not. What you put out there to pump yourself up can come back to bite you. I have no idea what SD is providing. But YOU chose to start ripping SD Coaches and I will back them with everything I have !

  • concern parent

    look into bodybytre athletes that seems to be the pipeline to upland.high.

  • 12th man

    Elijah Asante, a former head coach at Carson, Jordan and St. Paul, will coach the Southern Section all-star team vs. San Diego in an all-star game in January in Santa Ana.

    Asante is serving as an assistant coach at Santa Margarita this season.

  • pbah1

    Aram where are you?….on vacation?… or have you realized that that hole you dug dragging west Covina down suddenly has become a problem that you’re beloved coach Z is going down the same road as west co which is one I agree with. Rules are rules, if you don’t like them try to change them but don’t break them and cry about it.

    • AramT

      I didn’t know I had to come out and say how ridiculous I think it is that San Dimas would challenge this. I figured you all knew what I think of the HORRIBLE rule.

      I can’t believe ANYBODY is on here describing Coach Zernickow as my “beloved Coach Z” … even he would find that funny. I think he’s a great coach and has done an amazing job with the SD program, but I have been critical of him in the past and you can ask SD fan if I have a reputation of being a Saints fan.

      It’s bad form of San Dimas to challenge this because players should be a able to transfer at least once (maybe twice) in a HS career … but if this is more about UNDUE INFLUENCE whereas Noodles is about athletic motivation, then IT’S NOT NEARLY THE SAME THING.

      • tonto

        cmon aram,ITS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. neither player gets to play football next year! of course the circumstances are different but still both payton and hull are denied a year of football and you think that west co and san dimas are the bad guys.

        • AramT

          It’s not the same thing if …

          Player A leaves a school because he doesn’t like the way coaches are using him or simply doesn’t like the coaches.

          and …

          Player B leaves a school because another school (coaching staff) lured him to their place.

          NOT THE SAME.

          One is athletic motivation and the other is undue influence. Either way, my personal opinion is the player should be able to leave and be eligible, but they are not the same.

          • AMAT 73

            Aram,

            Are there any penalties for a coach who was found to have influenced a player to transfer in to their school ? By that I mean hard core evidence such as an e-mail or taped conversation , something along those lines . We all know the punishment for the player which in my opinion is absurd . I think all players should be allowed one transfer of their own accord much like player A but not bounce around as some have done .

          • Saints Fan

            They are allowed one xfer, current rules just say you have to do it before the 1st day of classes of your Sophomore year. Is this early, maybe, should they be allowed to do it later, possibly. I would totally support being able to make 1 xfer as that would allow for the “hey this isn’t the right place for me”, and you really DO NOT know until you are on Varsity. But I am not sure if allowing a transfer for a kids Senior year would make sense.

          • Jimmy the Greek

            The “Free Freshman” transfer rule was eliminated last year with the implementation of the new 30 day sit out period. You are now allowed to transfer 1 time (without moving) and you will be required to sit out until OCT 1st. But that rule will not apply if you were illegally recruited or you left evidence in writing that you have a problem with the prior coaching staff.

          • AMAT 73

            Greek,
            Do you know the penalties , if there are any , to a coach or staff that is caught athletically motivating a player to transfer to his school ?

          • Jimmy the Greek

            I don’t, I don’t even know if CIF has any written guidelines on the subject. I do know that Roddy Layton at DRanch 2 or 3 years ago got a 1 game suspension for getting caught as did some of his assistants. Which is less then a slap on the hand. For my money, coaches at the high school level are suppose to be teaching our kids right from wrong and should be held to a very high standard and as thus should be severely punished when violating the rule book.

          • AMAT 73

            A one game suspension just might warrant a try by a coach .What’s to lose , as we all know there are plenty fo ways to get around that , but for the athlete , they miss out practically a whole year of eligibility . There is something defintely wrong with that picture !!!!

          • Jimmy the Greek

            I fully agree, I believe the emphasis needs to be placed on penalizing the coaching staffs and maybe hitting the kids with only a 5 game suspension for athletically motivated and undue influence.

          • Saints Fan

            Here is my issue. If all the paperwork is filled out correctly as it MUST before CIF even see’s it, then there is some investigation that there was undue influence and it is upheld, then someone plain and simple LIED and submitted False Documents. Now, maybe the AD at the New School can claim ignorance (I didn’t know my assistant coach or Boosters talked to this kid and relayed messages), the Head Coach could say the same thing, but sure as heck, the Player and or the Parent who also signs these forms knows they talked to someone. Knows that someone said something that made them make a decision. In that case, shouldn’t the penalty be steeper ?? I purposely am not using the term Athletically Motivated because as we all have agreed, EVERY move is Athletically motivated.

          • Jimmy the Greek

            Yes, somewhere in the Bluebook CIF addresses the situation of parents/coaches knowingly providing false information/documentation. I believe the penalty can be up to a suspension of all remaining eligibility. I don’t know what the penalty is for the coach under these circumstances. For my money the penalty should be lifetime ban for the coach. If it’s an assistant coach that gets caught then the Head Coach needs to be penalized as well for things that happen under his watch. With that kind of liability you can bet that Head Coaches will be sure to keep their assistants in line.

          • Saints Fan

            Wasn’t this for cruising the Jr All American or Pop Warner circuit ???

          • Jimmy the Greek

            You’re right, a little bit different situation. Recruiting kids that are already on another High School Campus is, in my mind, much worse then what the Dranch coaches got busted for.

          • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

            Roddy has done that too!

      • Saints Fan

        Here Here, Aram is NOT an SD Homer… as an SD fan I got your back Aram !

      • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

        I want to know where in that letter from Noodles dad it said anything about transferring “specifically” because of football?? If anything there should be opening for Noodle’s attorney to reinterpet the meaning of what that letter said, if there is nothing specifically stated about “Transferring” and “Football”!

      • WCDan

        Where do you get that there is no undue influence in the WC situation, from the Hull family?

  • Anon

    I wonder why there was no hassle for Elijah Jones leaving for Upland from Damien…that was a big blow for that program..

    • Not So Fast My Friend

      I wouldn’t cry about any player leaving my program. If you’re confident in your abilities as a coach then why? The new coach at Damien already knows you come in and start chasing to keep a kid, you’ll be doing it throughout your career.

      On a high school team there are anywhere from 45+ kids on a varsity team. If one wants to leave, it’s becomes next man up.

  • sabado-gigante

    If only everyone knew what started this whole mess. Ask coach Z what he said to Payton that drove him away from San Dimas. Coach Z’s arrogance and smug attitude is the reason for Payton’s transfer.

    • Highlander

      Are you referring to the fact that he told him he wasn’t an SEC running back and that he should be more realistic and focus on other schools. If that’s the case then I don’t see the problem because he isn’t the best RB with us let alone a BCS school type RB.

      • Saints Fan

        Also, did this discussion take place after the march / april timeframe when Payton himself was telling other players in BTB training that he was transferring to Upland?

  • New York

    Aram,
    Does Payton, the accused, really have to prove his innocence? Since when is the burden of proof placed on the accused? This CIF is really annoying.

    Also, do you think Coach Z was influenced by his bosses on this one? Why the delayed protest? Who else is in this “group” that made the decision?

  • Not So Fast My Friend

    When Noodles left West Covina, I for one, as well as several others said it was disingenuous of their coaching staff to challenge the transfer because it gave the appearance of being vindictive. More than several disagreed, citing rules being the rules, and blah, blah, blah. However, at the root, this to me is nothing different.

    There are many arguments why challenging a transfer is appropriate. But many of them, again to me, just boil down to coaches being upset that one of their better players is leaving. I doubt very seriously if little Johnny, all 120 pounds and 4th string on the depth chart would have his transfer challenged. The hypocrisy and the selectiveness of who’s transfer gets challenged taint the whole process with skunk spray.

    I don’t recall seeing the better programs challenge a transfer. Why? Because they know 1, they have talent on their team, 2, they believe in the strength of coaching kids up, 3, in the ultimate team sport, when you single out a kid, you’re telling everyone “we’re not that good without that kid.” Lastly, if this kid was on the debate team and transferring no one would be squawking.

    For San Dimas and the coaching staff to first say they’re not going to challenge it, then turn around and do so is hogwash.

    • AramT

      EXCELLENT POST!

      Even more reason the rule is FLAWED! It’s pretty much geared toward only the studs. I gotta say, if I were an attorney representing a athlete, that argument just might win me the case.

      • tonto

        so let me get this right. both “not so fast my friend” and aram are saying that if a coach knows there has been athletic motivation or undue influence he should lie on the paperwork so these kids can leave and play at another school. listen, I agree that these transfer rules are a mess right now but you should not put the blame on the coaches for a flawed rule and ask them to be dishonest.

        • AramT

          You can’t have it both ways. When Justin Hornsby got declared ineligible by CIF for his junior season, West Covina’s stance on this rule and the policy of other schools as it pertains to this rule was quite different than the one being put on display currently about Noodles.

          At the end of the day, it’s hypocritical for programs that have BENEFITED from transfers in the past to try and stand in the way of someone when they decide to leave.

          It looked AWFUL when South Hills did it. It looks bad now when West Covina is doing it. Same with San Dimas, but I don’t think the Saints have benefited nearly as much as the other two from transfers.

          This is a very bad rule and situation. It paints coaching staffs and schools into bad spots.

          • WCDan

            Aram’s quote,
            “At the end of the day, it’s hypocritical for programs that have BENEFITED from transfers in the past to try and stand in the way of someone when they decide to leave.”

            No hypocrysy if there is undue influence commited against your program or actual physical & public evidence of athletic motivation that could come back and haunt you, in WC’s case there was both.

            Arams quote,
            “DO ANY OF YOU SEE CHARTER OAK CHALLENGING TRANSFERS? EVER!? GANO EVER? ”

            Why in the heck would Gano ever challenge a transfer, CO’s incoming to outgoing transfer ratio is probably 10 to 1. On top of that with the exception of Scoby, the ones that leave are not your typical impact players.
            Arams quote,
            “This is a very bad rule and situation. It paints coaching staffs and schools into bad spots.”
            Due to the fact that the rule doesn’t apply equally to all transfers, I agree with you on this one.
            One other thing, believe it or not I hope that Noodles does get to play
            his whole season, as a fan of Highschool football I want to see his progress and developement.

        • Not So Fast My Friend

          Tonto, I was going to respond, but I think Aram said it best, “At the end of the day, it’s hypocritical for programs that have BENEFITED from transfers in the past to try and stand in the way of someone when they decide to leave.”

          nuff said.

        • Jimmy the Greek

          Not only should they challenge I believe that coaches should be required file complaints on the “Vulture” Coaching Staffs that attempt to tamper with their programs. They owe it to their school and the kids in the program.

    • Jimmy the Greek

      I doubt that 120 lbs, 4th string, little Johnny is getting illegally recruited by coaching staffs at other schools. It’s one thing to recruit kids out of the 8th grade but it’s way out of bounds to tamper with other High School Football Programs.
      CIF, if your listing, please start laying the wood to these AHole coaching staffs that tamper with other programs.

      • Not So Fast My Friend

        CIF should. However, the point is if little Johnny claimed he was leaving because he wasn’t getting any playing time being 4th string or said nothing; whether his parents chimed in or not, I doubt he’d have his transfer challenged, even if he was going to 8-man football.

        I’m in full agreement with Aram on this. You can’t willfully benefit from transfers coming in, then go crying to mommy (CIF) because one wants to leave.

        • Jimmy the Greek

          Well if little Johnny was 4th sting then it’s very unlikely that he was illegally recruited and if little Johnny’s parents didn’t send anything in writing to the previous Coaching Staff that they were upset with them, then there would be no problem and no challenge because the transfer would be legit and the kid would only then be subject to the 30 day sit out period (provided they didn’t move) or no sanctions at all (if they did move).

          • Not So Fast My Friend

            We could pull the hairs off a camel’s backside for the next several months and it still wouldn’t make a difference.

            In reality speak, we both know, even if little Johnny’s parents sent an email, Western Union Telegram, wrote a letter, or wrote on the sidewalk in orange chalk, the coaches wouldn’t challenge his transfer.

    • Tubby Raymond

      Why do you think it’s only up to the coaches to challenge a transfer ? Even if they wanted to challenge it they would need administration approval .Ultimately it is a administration decision to challenge the transfer due to monetary expenses that may ensue . The fact that the players guardian works for Lone hill elementary the feeder school to San Dimas High is very problematic . San Dimas High is sending a message if your going to recruit our student athletes it will not go unchallenged .

      • Not So Fast My Friend

        I’m sure – actually quite confident the administration takes their cue from the coaching staff. Meaning the athletic director will get the nod from the coaches and make his/her way to the principal’s office and go from there.

        I doubt the principal of a school population of 2,500 plus students is going to jump out front on one student athlete transferring from the campus.

      • The Truth Will Set You Free

        First, Bill Zernickow is part of the administration team at San Dimas. He is the Dean for discipline. Second, why is it problematic that the guardian works at Lone Hill? I don’t see the connection.

  • Insider

    Aram, I don’t know who told you at San Dimas that the Saint family wasn’t going to challenge the move, but everyone over there was pretty clear on challenging and it has been pretty black and white. There are plenty of specifics, which I can’t say here, that are obvious. The only thing I can mention is the Payton party should not have played with the 7 on 7 team and gone to personal training that involved Upland coaches, when the Upland coaches can’t keep their mouths, text messages, and emails from moving.

    Also, on a side note he is not going to be Upland’s feature back. He is like 5 on the depth chart. THe only reason he got playing time at the Air Assault is because the man players were on college trips, oh isn’t that where Payton was suppose to be too. Guess he isn’t a D 1 back after all.

    • AramT

      Coach Zernickow told me.

      Everything I’ve been told is that Payton is going to be the starter at RB. And he’s playing both ways. We’ll see what happens …

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        Don’t you think Coach Z is being sarcastic? A)How does he know what the Upland Depth Chart is going to look like? B) if he challenges, he knows that will hamper Payton’s chances of being the starter. If CIF drops the hammer, there will be an appeal ETC. All of that takes time. Is The Payton Family going to get a lawyer if a appeal is needed? August of your Senior Year is a bad time for this. Z knows this and maybe that’s why they delayed action until now.

        • Saints Fan

          I would be very surprised to find out that Coach Z purposely delayed anything. The process starts with the paperwork being presented. Now given that Payton finished out the semester at SD in the first week of June, I would guarantee no paperwork was presented to SD to fill out until he was actually registered at Upland which must have happened mid June, then it went to them, they reviewed signed how they signed, then it Goes to Upland to submit to CIF. From what I saw, the paperwork popped up last week as “Pending” which I am sure was at least a few days after submitted to CIF. Now it is moved to Processing. These discussions started back in May with the “news” that the xfer was happening. So I am not sure I would say that Z was purposefully delaying it.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            I was just speculating..however its still bad timing….and the process takes time….so in all his statements could be view as being sarcastic…There is now way he can he is going to be the starter…

        • AMAT 73

          GP,
          The depth chart post was from Insider , nowhere did it say Coach Z , Insider can devulge that and the reasons he played at the 7 on 7 but for some reason he can’t give the specifics which are obvious by his account on why the challenge ??? That whole post just seams kind of fishy to me .

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Well is guess Aram would quote him if coach z said. So I mess trying to get all the facts straight. It’s all speculation until the facts come out…I just don’t get how anyone including the Upland staff is Labeling him as a starter. If the payton camp new coach was going to challenge, would they have transferred? Especially, If he does have knowledge of influence…there is so many layers here.

          • AMAT 73

            GP,
            Other than a single back offense there are 2 backs , half and full or one other in a few different offensive sets . Mainly the fullback is a blocking back with very few carries but he is a starter none the less. Maybe you are locked into a starter being the featured back , but that may not be the case unless like I said they go with a single back offense . Also could he possibly be starting on the other side of ball as it has been said by Aram much like when Hauser transferred out of AMAT to CO so he could play LB which was not in the cards at AMAT for him . Which by the way was clearly an athletically motivated transfer by Hauser but went uncontested .

          • Jimmy the Greek

            Hauser ended up sitting out a year, challenge or not he took the hit.

          • AMAT 73

            Greek,
            Like I wrote it was clearly athletically motivated .

          • Jimmy the Greek

            Yes, it was

  • disqus_wD2qThRkJd

    From what i have been told there could be a decision as early as tomorrow or thursday on Noodles

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  • Insider

    Truth. Z and the Boys follow CIF rules. There weren’t and “athletically” motivated transfers at SD. Z didn’t even know these South Hills kids. By the way, South Hills is doing just fine and these kids weren’t playing over there. They moved or will have to sit out.

  • In the know in the IE

    I suppose San Dimas won’t be playing Upland Varsity Football team anytime soon. How about this wise crack— Upland JV team would beat those girls at San Dimas Varsity Football and their coach “Z” the tyrant.

  • Highlander

    After talking to a few people and asking the right questions, i have come to the conclusion that the decision to challenge this goes WAY above Coach Z. The issue is that Paytons guardian is a district employee and that this is sending the wrong message district wide. It was suggested to me that this thing goes all the way to the top, district level. From what I hear they want to send a stern message to parents and employees of the district that this type of conduct will not be tolerated. OUCH!!!

    • New York

      That seems like harassment.

  • Observer

    Why doesn’t anyone ever question how upland gets the transfers? I’d say lots of undue influence and fake addresses..just something to chew on

  • Saints Fan

    ARAM – here is a scoop for you !!!
    Payton Jake Jim Drake Denied 2013-14 Denied,
    510 Violations. GM 07/18/2013
    Straight from the CIF Website …. let the bashing begin

    • Saints Fan

      I am truly sad for Jake, there must be some penalty to Upland to make this stop

  • Highlander

    Read into the Quote and what Aram said about talking to Coach Z. “We had a change of heart, it’s a group decision.” Now that Payton is not eligible everyone is going to blast the coach but it seems to me that his original intention was not to challenge and move on. This quote tells me that it really was the higher ups that made this decision. I would hate to see a good coach have his reputation tarnished over this. Now lets see if they are going to come after Upland in anyway shape or form. It is sad that the student athlete suffers the consequences. What are Paytons options now. Can he go back to SD and be eligible to play. If you were a player with the ability of Payton to get a scholarship, even at a small school, would you go crawling back on your knees to play. If I were him I would use them for all I could until the end of the season, get my stats, make my recruiting calls and then when the season is over go home school and disappear.

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