Bishop Amat needs relief … no other way about it …

From 2006 to 2013, Bishop Amat has one playoff win and several thousand fans and coaches who think the Lancers still belong in the Pac-5 Division, SoCal’s elite playoff grouping.

Following Friday’s loss to Crespi, the Lancers face an uphill battle just to make the postseason with tough Mission League games left against Serra, Chaminade and Alemany, to name a few.

If the Lancers don’t make the postseason, it will mark the fourth time in the past nine years that Amat didn’t even go dancing. Considering Amat was in a four or five-team league for most of the past decade, that’s saying something.

Heck, in one of the years Amat did make the playoffs, the Lancers needed the stars to align and a coin flip in their favor on the final night of the season just to make the dance.

This year was supposed to be different. Amat has one of its most-talented teams in quite some time, with three players receiving college offers from some of the top college football programs on the West Coast.

But “it” hasn’t happened. Amat is now 2-3. Who knows what to make of the Lancers’ big win in Texas over Aledo. The rout of Rancho Cucamonga looks less impressive now that La Serna just beat the Cougars and it’s looking like this isn’t one of the Cougars’ juggernaut teams.

Then there’s the loss to Chino Hills. Sure, Amat didn’t have quarterback Damian Garcia for the first half, but the game was still well within reach after halftime and the Lancers were blown out while struggling mightily to stop Chino Hills’ offense in a 45-28 setback.

Fact is, Bishop Amat has looked and continues to look like more like an Angelus League team thaatn a Serra League team. Many Amat fans hanging onto the past will cling to the fact that “at least” the Lancers made the playoffs in more than half of the past eight seasons. Is it saying much to simply make the postseason while in a four or five-team league, though?

Amat’s league record from 2006-14

2006: 1-2
2007: 1-2
2008: 1-2
2009: 2-1
2010: 3-1
2011: 1-3
2012: 2-2
2013: 1-3
2014: 0-1

Combined: 11-15

The numbers don’t lie, Amat hardly has a case to belong in the Serra or Mission league, let alone the Pac-5. The Lancers made the playoffs THREE TIMES in the past eight years without a winning record in league!

In order for Amat to get divisional relief, the Lancers will either have to ask out of the Mission League or be voted out by their peers. However, if a new CIF-Southern Section initiative that will make it so playoff divisions are formed by worth and not history or reluctance to grasp reality comes to fruition, then it may not come down to Amat waving the white flag.

But that’s probably two years away. In the meantime, evidence continues to mount that the way the Lancers do business is better suited for 20 years ago. Facts are facts. The top teams in SoCal, a group Amat would like to be considered a part of, attract transfers and actively seek out talent.

There’s a certain way of doing business in order to be the elite among the elite. This style won’t appeal to those who still view the game of high school football as it was 20, 30 or even 40 years ago.

Amat head coach Steve Hagerty has been steadfast in saying he will not run his program this way. That’s his prerogative. But Hagerty and Amat fans will have to deal with the results and they aren’t going to be pretty … not at this level anyway.

  • no-step

    Coach Hagerty wasn’t all that successful at Riv. Poly, either. This is overdue. It’s not 1970 and even the homers realize it. Evidence the sounds of silence from the honks. Then again…their girls win a lot of games!

    • Blue&Gold95

      I would have to agree, no-step!….. Hagerty needs to go we have the talent he’s just not putting it all together. Should’ve been using Sydney at WR a lot sooner in years past including this year. Also Hagerty needs to learn how to keep his players too. Having under class men transfer really comes back and hurts you in the long run. And to think those transfers talk to potential student/athletes saying STAY AWAY FROM THERE!!!!

      • AmatStinks

        No QB, no chance. Amat should play on the History Channel. They live in the past.

      • Inthecrowd

        Agreed!!! Not only should Sydney play wr they need a rb. Camargo is doing nothing at rb. BA OL is not big enough to open holes against PAC 5 opponents. He is running up the backs of his linemen that he is bigger than. He would be more useful at TE, has the speed and height to overmatch most linebackers. Why can’t the coaches see this? Everyone in the stands can.

      • What?

        Boohoo, Amat loses a game by 1 point in OT to a very good PAC-5 team that is currently undefeated and all of a sudden the sky is falling.

        • last picked

          Now Crespi is a very good Pac 5 team? All week, Amat honks were saying how bad Crespi is, their record is inflated against teams with loosing records? Now they are a good Pac 5 team?

          • What?

            Yes, Crespi is a very good high school football team that plays in the PAC-5. I don’t think they are a threat to win the PAC-5 this year but would probably beat every team in the SGV area with only CH and Amat giving them a run for their money.

          • last picked

            That went right over the top of your head. Again, for the week leading up to this game Amat fans were on here saying they were going to roll Crespi, who was unbeaten, but had not played anyone, their record was inflated against weak competition- according to Amat fans. Now that Crespi beat Amat, they are all of a sudden a good team.

          • AMAT 73

            lp,
            I don’t believe anyone from AMAT was saying they were a bad team. We know better, we face them every year and it’s been back and forth all the time , What was being said was that they were not battle tested in preseason based on their schedule as Fred said they were . That was the issue .

        • Jefe

          Sorry but Crespi is not a “very good Pac-5 team.”

          Crespi is a middle-tier, average Pac-5 team. Not bad but not “very good” either.

          I’d say if Thomas sticks around, they could be a very good team in a couple of years.

  • GP AKA Green Machine

    The SGV is small, there is pac 5 talent here, but it’s impossible to get them on the same team at Amat. The other pac 5 schools have talent and depth. We don’t know their kids backgrounds, but you would have to think a school like MD or Poly or Cor Cent Etc…has a team loaded with area stars…all at one school.

    What a SGV Pac 5 Team would need to compete..This type of team would be a title contender…
    QB- Fink
    QB Zamora Mon
    Ath-Antonio Hull Dbar
    RB-Zion Echols CO
    RB Sweet BA
    FB-Rios San D
    WR-Bobo Pom
    WR-Vaughns BA
    WR- Crawford SF
    WR Spencer Mon
    WR Mason Muir
    TE-Glendora’s TE

    TE- Carrol SF
    Glendora’s top 2 lineman
    Los Altos top 2 lineman
    San Dimas top 2 lineman
    Amat’s top 2 Lineman
    SF Top 2 Lineman
    WC top 2

    On Defense
    BA’s entire secondary
    DB Mason Muir
    DB Nathan Mon
    Ath Hull
    LB Carmargo
    LB Sina LAltos
    LB Carrol SF
    LB top 2 Glendora LB’s
    LB Marquez Mon
    Dline-top 2 from LA, SD, SF, WC and BA
    K Cusaik Mon

    • Valley Athletics

      That’s a number 1 team in nation right there .

    • The truth and nothing but…

      I would take Gasby over Zamora. But the kid put together a tremendous drive last night for the win.

      • Valley Athletics

        Amats Qb is not the problem . he is not given enough credit . He was being chased all night . Had some hard late hits and sacks and kept on getting back up and making plays . He was driving near the end of the half and got taken out by a late hit 5 yds out of bounds into cheerleaders box . That was a key drive that Amat lost momentum and stalled . He did tie the game at end of the game in a drive that he got roughed up again with a Td pass to Vaughn’s . And in overtime another Td pass to vaughns .thats tough to do being hit as hard as he was hit all night . The loss was defenses fault with all those off side penalties when Crespi was going for 2 points in 4th quarter And some missed tackles . Big improvement from last week . But having 210 pound average D line is going to hurt them in 4th quarters .

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        Not in your life if Gatsby is better.

        • What?

          Hello, Zamora was already at Amat and was 2nd and 3rd fiddle to the 2 guys Amat presently have.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Well…How he left as a Freshman. He is not the Same QB he was his Freshman year…

          • Valley Athletics

            Garcia led his team to a tie And a Td last night . He is a good leader . Defense is where leadership is needed because they are the ones losing the game . This debate gets old . Both Qbs are good . Zamora left the weekend before sch

          • Mean Joe Green

            The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Zamora broke his arm his freshman year at Amat. Garcia got the job after the break. When Zamora returned healthy for Spring ball, Garcia was already slated for the back up to Koa. Zamora left for Monrovia because he followed his cousin Alex Felix and not because he couldn’t take a position. You are right about one thing though. The argument is getting old. It does not matter who would have or could have gotten the starting position at Amat. Bishop Amat is not the litmus test for QBs. There have been great QBs that have come out of Bishop and great ones that have come out of Monrovia. There is no QB race that I know of that Garcia and Zamora are competing in. The QB that wins is the one that goes to college and gets a degree.

    • Jefe

      That team isn’t within 2 TD’s of a De La Salle or Don Bosco Prep.

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        This years team isn’t close to winning league..

  • Valley Athletics

    Don’t know why you keep saying this is Amats most talented team . 3 players with offers so far . 2 years ago 7 players went somewhere . Like you said . In the past it might of been enough talent in the past and not now. Crespi actually has 4 top recruits and a few more getting looks , Only Serra and Loyola have have more or as much recruits than Crespi . The rest of the league are about the same when it comes to recruits .Amat does need to figure out at the top if they want to be a top team. With out recruiting and giving some type of financial assistants to get a few more players, they will never get to the top . I am not saying getting freshman players . Amat gets great freshman players . They need to get junior and senior transfers that already have offers . next year Amat looks to be the best on returning talent in league . But all the other teams will just work harder on getting 1 year transfers to put out the best product . Hope Amat gets better . Penaltys again stalled some key drives . Fix those and improve tackling and they are a much better team . The injury to Lopez is going to hurt that O line . Safety chris Gaston should be back in a couple weeks And that will help . Arcanado is taking his place now and he struggles on His tackling .

    • no-step

      Are you claiming that amat does NOT recruit…does NOT give financial assistance? They’ve been doing that for 50 years!

      • Valley Athletics

        Read my post . I said proven juniors and seniors . They recruit incoming freshman . They need upperclassmen recruits and full rides to them .

        • no-step

          As stated…amat has been doing that for 5 decades!

      • momoffootball

        Funny you should say that. I know lots of parents there…none getting financial assistance, most busting their butts to make ends meet and pay the tuition, never seen a recruiter at the Jr All American games!!! Amat is heavy on legacy families grandparents graduated there, aunts and uncles, cousins.

    • truth teller

      It is the most talented team that I’ve seen at Amat. Probably only 3 players with offers because there are so many first year varsity players. In the games that I have seen, the kids have been in position to win and some bad decisions by the coaches end up costing them.

      • Valley Athletics

        Senior class only one offer so far . 2 years ago there was blue , Andrews , Lopez , velasquez , cook , pontikes and Higgins . I look at it more which senior class was better . Juniors are mostly first year starters and next year we will see how they stack up in talent versus the 2013 class .when the class of 2013 where juniors no one had offers yet .

  • The truth and nothing but…

    I don’t see how BA makes the playoffs but I am rooting for them.

    • Outside Looking In

      That Kool-Aid has an expired “sell by” date! Quit drinking it already!!! Amut isn’t going anywhere with Chaminade and Gardena Serra in their league too now.

      • momoffootball

        Keep on drinking it up!
        It feeds your soul.
        So much more to a school than its damn football team. Drink up the Kool aid at whatever school you go to. Be proud! Wear the colors, put stickers on your car…
        Be a band or cheer or drama or sports parent! Teach your kid to love it’s alma mater despite its setbacks….Visit your school after you leave..
        the memories are priceless!
        Or just be a troll on sports blogs and tell everyone to hate….whatever floats your boat.
        Haters gonna hate….

  • jcaz

    Aram, you’re a funny guy.

    Every other year or so you jump on this “relief’ business. You seem to want go on this diatribe every now and then, and then all of a sudden, your shaking your head in amazement on how Amat just slayed a mighty giant.

    Just so you know, during those very same years you just documented, Amat, under Haggardy (and im not a big fan of his BTW), has beaten every one of the teams in their own league. They have gone into the playoffs probably no more, and probably no less than any of the other teams in that same league an have probably won and lost about the same.

    They have defeated, Orange Lutheran, Mater Dai, Santa Margarita and Servite along with St Bonnies, just to name a few…..All of that, within that very same time line you have up there

    Also, its kind hard to find a team anywhere close to the SGV
    Tribune readership, that wasn’t named Corona Centennial who could say that they could consistently win against that high a caliber of teams, all of the time.

    Amat, weather you like it or not, has in fact been a consistent winner, even though they stumble here and there and don’t always get the girl at the end of the dance.

    BTW, statistics are a funny thingl. When you point to Amat’s league game victory’s and playoff appearances (while in this same grouping of teams that were once in the Serra), I wonder if you could make the very same argument about relief on each and every one of those other teams ?

    Sure, Amat hasn’t had great success in the playoff each and every year, but If a team ever needed relief, then its probably not going to be Amat.

    I mean, do we move Loyola out ? What about Notre dame ? After all, other than Alemany, how many of those teams have consistently been in the Pac5 playoffs over that very same period, and more to the point, how many of them, even including Alemany, have actually won the Pac5 ?

    None

    I think then that all these other team must also need relief…….

    • AramT

      I think Amat has a lot more in common with St. Francis than it does St. John Bosco.

      If you’re going to refuse to do the things it takes to have success in your league and in the playoffs, then you get what you get .

      There’s nothing wrong with relief. Go down, get built back up (presumably) and you’ll be back in D-1 eventually.

      • sir lancelot

        So you think next years team will not be successful?? They will only get better. Most of the starters are juniors. Shame on you Aram. Weren’t you the one who classified this as the super Sophs????

        • last picked

          What is successful? Amat 20 years ago based success on titles, now it seems success is being based on just making the playoffs. Amat’s junior class will be seniors, as will the junior classes at the other schools and they will be just as talented again.

        • AMAT 73

          SL,
          The time is now !!!! This group needs to step up, the talent is there , they need to learn to put a complete game together , 4 qtrs of solid ball .

      • jcaz

        Look, all im saying is that your making a claim based on Amats win loss record, not only in the Pac5 Playoff’s, but in league as well.

        Ok, that’s fair. But, what im saying is, that if you were to compare Amat to any other Sera league team or for that matter, most every other Pac 5 team out there, then Amat hasnt done any better or any worse.

        Aram, the fact is that you have to give the devil his
        due. The league Amat’s been playing in is a tough league. Not everyone get into the playoffs each and every year.

        Obviously, there are teams out there that have always been very successful, but even there it depends on who their competition is. After all, if LB Poly were in the trinity league instead of the Moore league, or even in the current Mission league,
        would they be in the playoffs each and every year ? What would their league record be ? And what if Poly had the same wins an loss’s as Amat did, would you be saying Poly needs relief simply because they now have competition, and thus more losses ? Just look at orange Lutheran. Do they need relief ?

        BTW, what happened to your post game show ? I look forward to seeing it the day after and it wasn’t on this time

        • AramT

          Should I be basing it on something beside win-loss record? I presented EIGHT YEARS of data for you right in the middle of story. What else do you want to go off of?

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Here’s some more “data” from Hagerty’s 6 years on playoff appearances
            from the private schools that have been in the Pac5 that entire time

            Bishop Amat 5/6
            Mater Dei 5/6
            Servite 5/6
            Notre Dame 4/6
            St John Bosco 3/6
            OLu 3/6
            Santa Margarita 3/6
            Loyola 2/6
            Crespi 2/6
            JSerra ZERO/6

            Some
            more thoughts. Is there a team on that list Amat has played they have not
            beaten during Hagerty’s time? Should JSerra have bargained for relief.
            Should SJB have been booted after 7 straight years of no playoffs?

            It’s
            difficult to judge how the other teams will fair. We’ll get a better
            idea on Chaminade and Serra soon for sure. Do you really expect anyone
            besides Centennial to have much playoff success – is the Big VIII moore
            likely to be the Moore League Part 2? (See what I did there?) Sold on
            the Marmonte League? Oaks Christian, Westlake, and Moorpark are still
            waiting to win a Pac5 playoff game.

            Playoff wins are so random,
            I’m not certain that’s the best indicator any. In other sports, with a
            32 team bracket and real “seeding” it so more accurate. In a 16 team
            bracket with the playoff “formula” so much is based on who you get.
            Playing a 2nd/3rd or At-Large team from the Trinity is far worse than
            the counterpart from the Moore/South Coast/Marmont/etc.

            Winning a
            championship is not a right, it is earned. On the field. Against the
            best. Not by moving down to a level you can “win”. As great as Mission
            Viejo has been, they never won a championship at the highest level. It’s
            tough. I wonder if they’ll feel as good winning one after a move down?
            Is that really “winning”?

        • last picked

          you make up too many what if scenarios. Fact is if Poly were in the Trinity or the Mission, yes they would be in the playoffs every year, because every year they have as much talent as anyone in California. Look back at Poly’s preseason schedules they don’t duck anyone.

          • jcaz

            Not saying they don’t have talent. What I am saying is that they would have league losses and because if that, they wouldn’t have a basic cake walk to the playoffs.
            The interesting thing is that it’s when they do step up and play outside their league, they get their noses bloodied. Case in point Narbirne a year ago and Centenial this year.
            They only look good when they’re beating up on the Moore league. Heck, even Amat Would be guaranteed a playoff spot every year if they played in that league. LOL

          • last picked

            That was actually 2012 when they lost to Narbonne. The same Narbonne team that went 14-1 and finished 3rd in the state. Poly went through a 3 game losing streak including this one, but bounced back to win the D1 title beating Amat, Mater Dei , St. John Bosco en route to finishing 4th in the state. Poly has had Centennials number though with the exception of this year, but chances are they will meet up again in the playoffs.

          • jcaz

            Indeed you are correct, but my point wasn’t about how they finished, but rather about how they would do in a more competitive league.
            Look, you can be a really good team, but depending on how many games you win and lose determines where your seeded in the playoffs, and frankly speaking, match ups make all the difference in the world.
            Btw, I’m not taking away from their achievement that year, but even in that championship year, had they matched up with another team that might have had their number that year then we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
            The fact that Poly consistently runs the table in the Moore gives then better seedings in the playoffs every year.
            Sure, you still got to beat who ever lines up against you on the other side of the ball, but the fact is that I’d guarantee you that if Poly were playing in the Trinity or the Mission that they wouldn’t be guaranteed a play off spot every year and yes, there would be years that they wouldn’t even make the play offs.

        • New York

          I think putting Poly into the Trinity League would force Poly to become a better football team that does not overlook mistakes, the way the king of an easy league can become complacent. That complacency during league and the first round or two of the playoffs creates problems when facing much better TEAMS in the later rounds.

      • What?

        You mean, if you refuse to cheat like the other schools? Aram, how do you put something like that into print? Openly advocating one of our local high schools to jump on the cheating band wagon. These are the exact kinds of attitudes today that have produced all of the entitled athletes we see on the news cover stories as of late.

        • AramT

          CHEAT????? If the other teams are cheating where are their penalties from CIF? IT’S NOT CHEATING!!!!

          • What?

            I see where your coming from, if you don’t get caught then it’s ok? Kind of like all the high school, college, and pro’s that take ped’s are ok right up until they get caught? Lance Armstrong would love you.

          • AramT

            No, where I’m coming from is if it’s cheating then where are all the suspensions, sanctions, penalties and ineligible players at the other schools who get players? Show me the rules violations.

          • Mean Joe Green

            I think everyone is proving your point man. The fact that these guys see the practices of other teams as “cheating” is proof that they are living in the past. Some schools have managed to stay with the times (Alemany), others are just now catching on (La Salle and Maranatha) while others remain in the dark ages. CIF is clear about the rules for transferring schools. They do not care about the “whys” if a student sits out the mandated amount of time. Also, CIF allows you to attend any school of your choosing for your freshman year. How is this cheating? If you have problems with the rules you need to take it up with CIF. Don’t accuse others of cheating. They just take advantage of the rules. But let me get this straight, while other private schools are taking advantage of the rules and going through local public schools with a dragnet some of you guys prefer to lose with integrity and adherence to rules that no longer exist.

          • fast freddy

            The van from Pasadena with Alemany football players goes right by St. Francis everyday. I understand where you are coming from by saying its not cheating–new rules are new rules. I think its more a matter of ethics. Alemany, La Salle, Cathedral, Oaks Christian, Chaminade, Serra, Mater Dei—I could go on and on. You get the point. I don’t blame the public schools for getting upset about this trend. Its not a fair playing field. If the publics really wanted to do something about this, have two divisions of the CIF, publics and privates. You think that would happen? Not a chance. The publics and the CIF wants that gate revenue from the large following of fans of the privates. The CIF changed the transfer rules to try and compete with the privates, but also because they could not keep up with enforcing their rules. My answer, two divisions of CIF–one public and one private. Its nice to write about it, but it will never happen.

          • Mean Joe Green

            I completely agree with you on all points and would love to see that two division separation.

      • AMAT 73

        Aram,
        AMAT has more in common with Crespi, ND , Loyola , JSerra , O Lu , and it’s not like SM ran rough shod over us , then with SF . Really , how many teams at this stage have much in common with SJB other than Bishop Gorman ????? Do you really think we should be in the Angelus league ??? Cathedral , the slime have proved no match in recent years , Salesian , although a rising team , La Salle . We caught hell for even scheduling the slime and Cathedral , imagine if we put Salesian and LaSalle as preseason games , What would your thoughts be on that ??? No you are wrong on the fact we have more in common with SF , as we do not run from a challenge nor will go to court to fight a challenge .

        • WCDan

          Lol, good point about scheduling Salesian and La Salle, you probably would catch hell.

    • sir lancelot

      Well said. I mean layola has always been at the bottom and here he is talking about mincing us out??? Than he comes out saying that if it’s not this year it will never happen???? If I recall most starters are juniors and will be stacked next year. Smh on aram

    • Valley Athletics

      I can name at least 12 teams in Pac 5 that are not even close to Amats level . I agree with Aram that Amat has to change there ways to get to the upper echelon of teams who built teams up with transfers . I don’t agree that they don’t belong in Pac 5 . Admin has to make decision if they want to be at top or average .

      • no-step

        Please…name them!

        • Valley Athletics

          Ok 11 . I was thinking of some teams that where in marmonte last season . Here is my eleven . Moor park Lakewood , Compton , LB cabrillo , LB Jordan , Millikan , Roosevelt , Santiago , Corona , Norco , Riverside King . I would also put Loyola below Amat going by last 5 yrs.

          • last picked

            Norco? They have consistently made deep playoff runs since their back to back CIF titles in 05 & 06.Corona Norco school districts enrollment policies created and feed the beast that is Centennial at the expense of Roosevelt, Norco, Corona, Santiago. Riverside King is in an older area of Riverside that has seen very little growth and the kids that can transfer out, do so and end up at Citrus Hill. Now if Eastvale creates it’ own school district, then you would have another Centennial like school in the area.

          • Valley Athletics

            Deep runs where not in PAC 5 . Lost to Rancho this year And the story above says Rancho is not the same Rancho of before since they lost to La Serna . Santiago I put on there just because how bad they lost to Hart and Santa Margarita . They Are decent now because of Barnett . Once he is gone they will struggle . My post is just to point out that Amat still deserves to be in PAC 5 .

          • last picked

            Doesn’t make any sense to even include the Big 8 schools in the conversation though as this is their first year in the Pac 5. A fair assessment for them can be made after 2-3 years of the teams in playoffs. Even making a comparisson based on how teams did against common opponents wouldn’t make sense because each team matches up differently against the other.

          • AramT

            That list is worthless. Half of the teams you mentioned are in the Moore League. So we can just say everyone in the Moore but LB Poly.

          • Valley Athletics

            Wouldn’t you start first on relieving those teams …

          • AramT

            Yeah great and then what league is LB Poly gonna be in? They’re only there to help form a league for LB Poly to call home.

          • jcaz

            In a way, your actually making my point. If LB Ploy were in a competitive league, where they had real competition, then their won loss record (in league) might very well be comparable to Amats.
            BTW, what if you were to put them in a league with teams who currently are not in the Pac5, but yet had the standing to be so ?
            Ignoring geography, how would this all public school league look like to you ?
            LB Poly, Edison, Upland, Tessoro, Vista Murrita, Narborne

          • Valley Athletics

            If they create an open division playoff like basketball . They can put the Moore league in division 4 and since LBP is always a top 5 team they will always get to play in the open . They are already talking about doing something like this and are just trying to figure out the kinks .

      • Inland_FB_Fan

        I would like to see that list….lol.

      • What?

        I think it should be more a case of CIF putting a stop to all the cheating that the other PAC-5 power house schools do rather then Amat joining in on all the illegal recruiting. I respect the fact that Amat chooses to play at the highest level (win or lose) and that they refuse to play the “chase the transfer” game.

        • Blue&Gold95

          Oh Gawd, you sound like an idiot on this one! I’m sure if there was “cheating” going on CIF would’ve already put a stop to it. How many QB transfers came in this last season for Amat & how many ended up leaving because of Hagerty? Come on, call a spade a spade and stop pointing the finger at what everyone else is supposedly doing! There’s just the same amount of BS in every program. Amat just so happens to be one of the only ones that lose every season. If they don’t get there stuff in order Amat WILL NOT see this much talent in there program for a VERY LONG TIME!!!!! Last time I checked I don’t see a long line outside the attendance office begging to be a Lancer and theres a reason for that.

          • momoffootball

            Omg seriously..There are a lot of people still begging to go to Amat. Let’s not forget it has an excellent academic program as well as sports program. One of the only HS in California that offers the IB program.
            Some kids are actually student athletes (you may not understand that concept) but it’s rate of graduates attending universities far out shines any public school. Great fit for the kid that can make it on the field and in the classroom.

          • Blue&Gold95

            Who’s debating anything about academics?…. This blog is called In the huddle….. Not In the Classroom!… But sense you put your foot in your mouth let’s keep it there for a moment, and for your information I STAND BEHIND having a student/athlete on the field first before just an Athlete and there are some of those still left at Amat and I commend them and there parents for that! So before you try and take personal jabs at me like saying “You may not understand that concept” I VERY WELL UNDERSTAND!!!! Further more why are there so many of our Athletes struggling at Amat? Why are these same Athletes still allowed to play during the season? Why are these same kids continuing to have to go to summer school ever sense they enrolled at Amat as Freshman? Why are the same kids that get caught cheating on test allowed to stay at Amat? Why is the same kid that sent an inappropriate texts allowed to stay, why is that same kid that farts in class allowed to stay? I’ll tell you why, HAGERTY!!!! Then people wonder why these same kids get in trouble in College and or NFL, because the program “LEADERS” allowed it. Oh, and by the way you can only make up 2 summer school classes a year, so if your a Junior and your making up classes from Freshman to Sophomore year, you have NO ROOM for error this year so I hope these same Football coaches that are there teachers in the classroom start to take charge and bench these kids so that they can graduate and make NCAA clearing house to play on the next level!

          • momoffootball

            I agree 100% kids not making the grade should be benched, kids getting in trouble should be benched…. And if Amat is not doing that, shame on them and any other team doing the same.. I think Monrovia ran into that last year with one of their top players…. I just hate bashing a whole institution for what happens on a football field. You said there isn’t a long line at the door to be a lancer…I disagree. Maybe not a Lancer football player but what about just a Lancer ?…Let the Lancers be proud of their school….
            I am just a middle aged lady trying to lighten things up on here. Just trying to put some positives out there!!! I love high school football, love to read the scores on Saturday morning. Love to see a kid go on and succeed in college…nothing better out there…and I think that is where most of you guys are coming from but man it gets heated on here. I will remove my foot from my mouth now….gotta get ready for Sunday night football dinner…
            PS..Let the farters stay in school they can’t help it if their GI tract is jacked up. 🙂

          • Blue&Gold95

            Much respect to you momoffootball! We need more people out there like you that can be more level headed on these topics. Enjoy the rest of your day & God Bless!

          • momoffootball

            Who should I take in tonight’s game? Making queso dip!!!
            Have a great rest of your weekend!!

          • Yellow Balls

            The IB program at Amat is not fully accredited BTW. Its just a great resource to get parents to pay extra. Good selling point though.

        • last picked

          This has got to be the dumbest post in the history of dumb post. To think Amat does not do what you think the other “cheating” Pac 5 schools are doing is just plain naive and ignorant. The fact of the matter is this, Amat no longer holds the prestigious drawing power it once had, so even if they pursue the top local talent, there is no need for them to go.The “lower” division teams are routinely scheduling the ” big boy” teams anyways. The internet and social media has made it so much easier for kids to get noticed that they no longer have to go to those “elite” schools like they used to to get recruited. 20 years ago, you had to be a freak like Lawrence Phillips to get noticed at Baldwin Park, now you can send video, go to 7 on 7 , recruiting services ect.. I would like nothing more then to have Bishop Amat return to those days of them being mentioned in the same breath as Mater Dei, Poly , St. John Bosco ect.. when Amat does well, it brings more recruiters to the fishbowl who might also take a look at the kid down the street as well.

          • observantcat

            Right now, Monrovia holds that reign. No need to get a Catholic education or a 30 min. Dr. to play on a team that attracts Scouts, just get out of bed go to school and perform both on the field and in the classroom and job well done. Of course it doesn’t hurt to get on a good 7 on 7 squad in the meantime. Zamora say’s it best in his interview with Steve Ramirez, “This is where I’m from and these are the friends I grew up with” NUFF said!

          • momoffootball

            Zamora handled that question better than most of the adults on this blog would. He did what he and his family wanted to do and what was best for them….maturity beyond his years. Hey if you love your school and all is good then you are doing the right thing. Regardless if it’s Catholic, Christian, Charter, public. ..look at programs like Maranatha, Rio Hondo prep, awesome small schools that parents feel are important for their kids. It’s all personal! Do what’s best for your kid and don’t judge what your neighbor does for his or hers!!

    • joho

      Ha, ha the sky is falling!!!
      Come on Aram, this year Amat has played all good teams all in the top 25! and minus Chino Hills they have played them all CLOSE!!!!
      Yesterday was Haggerty’s doing, going for the tie rather than the win??? top coaches don’t play that way.
      Amat BELONGS in the Pac 5 that’s all there is to it….

  • reality

    The teams that are beating Amat are not more talented than them. So what is it? Not the skill guys, line is tough, defense fast, generally in a position to win but don’t more than half the time in tight games. Clearly Amat needs a guy to coach the 4th quarter and more if needed.

    • Valley Athletics

      Small D line that gets tired . Kind of like what Lou farrar said about his line . Linebacker size guys with an average of 210 pounds going up against bigger linemen . The running combo of a speedy 170 pound back and a strong 255 pound back wore them out . The biggest starter on D line weighs 225 . crespis D line had 290 pound tackle , 245 pound Defensive end . Both highly recruited and the rest where over 220 pounds . That’s my opinion .

    • Inland_FB_Fan

      I would have to say that Chino Hills equaled Amat in overall Talent. I was surprised by the lack of physicality of Amat. They got pushed around pretty good on both sides of the ball.

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        Yeah, in the highlights on the goal line CH, blew them off the ball…

  • Don

    I think you guys need to stop dancing around the issue. Really, what Bishop Amat needs to do to win big in the Pac-5 is to cheat. That’s right sports fans, cheat. Bribe the parents, make promises you can never keep, falsify documents, the works.

    Kid can’t pass a class? Hell, let his girlfriend take the make up test. Team undersized? Need a stud in the backfield. Bring in a ringer from out of town. Or in town, whatever. Worked for Carter (TX) for years. By the time anybody did anything about it, they had they the trophy locked in the case. Heck, when you brace ’em now about rescinded titles they’ll still tell you, “yeah, but we still won the game”. Cheat, dammit. And be proud of it.

    You think Bellvue got where they are finding little JAA kids at Microsoft? Augustine finds all their studs out being raised by Manatees, right? And Gorman Community College locates all of their talent under a Prickly Pear out in the desert. Just ask Snoopy Dog. Yessir, free tutition, books, training table and medical . . . don’t forget the multiple uni’s, at least one new one every full moon including at least one all-black ensemble cuz it looks BAAAaaaaddd. Oh yeah, everybody gets a single digit number too.

    The problem is going to be sneaking this by the Amat Old Guard who insist on doing things the “right way. (No way can we tell Haden, McKay, and the rest of those boring lawyer types.) That and paying for it, but hey, I can’t think of everything, can I?

  • Inland_FB_Fan

    The fact is that people in the SGV needs a team that belongs to a “Big Boy” division in football. The fact is, Amat is not a Pac 5 contender. They haven’t been in years. They would be a better fit in the West Valley division. Amat is the KING of SGV football and people just can’t handle the fact that their “king” has been dethroned.

    • jcaz

      I love the fact that your just rubbing it in. Keeps em quite… But here’s my question for you FB, can you take it as well as you dish it out ? Hum ?
      What kinds of excuses, err, reasons are you going to come up with if (and it’s only an if here), Rancho, or for that matter, and lesser team beats you ?
      Will you say that this other school, has a program thats far better than CH ? What about leagues ? Are you going to say that CH needs relief because it got beat by a “lower” team and that because it was out played that night, it therefore needs to be reclassified ?
      BTW, has CH ever won its Division championship ? If it never did, or if its been a while, then maybe they should they go down a notch or two ? That’s what your saying here so why not with CH ??
      Not done yet….
      What about their athletes ? Will the other team have better players because they out played you on that one single night ?
      I mean we can go on and on, but the bottom line is that while it feels good to have slayed the mighty dragon, be careful how you view yourself, because others now have their eyes on you.
      Its a long fall when you “THINK” your at the top my friend.
      Just saying…..

      • Inland_FB_Fan

        Are you saying anyone who beats Amat is a “lesser”yeam? I think Chino Hills was no doubt the better team this year.
        If they happen to lose to a lesser team, I will not make excuses (last year’s damien game”
        Chino Hills has not won it’s division. They are a realatively new school (only had a full varsity team for 10-11 years). In that time they have made the playoffs every year but one. They have made it to the Semis 2 times. Even though they haven’t won it all, they have been competitive.
        The difference between me and most Amat fans is I do not think CH is the “mighty blue and Green” or “we are Chino Hills” etc. etc. etc. I do not think CH is not the best team around. They have good kids who play hard and quality coaching staff I think they will be in a battle every week in the baseline league every week. I think they will make the playoffs and depending on their rank in league, could make the Semi finals. Do I think they could stumble….yes I do. You Amat people (like most private schools) think your program is above everyone else. I am just keeping it real in saying you are not.

        • truth teller

          Sure CH beat Amat this year but unless CH has been playing in the PAC 5, you can’t compare the two. The schedules are TOTALLY different. I don’t think CH would have had the success that you mentioned playing in the Serra league.

  • Sports News

    Bishop Amat is a joke and they need to get rid of Haggerty!!!

  • Valley Athletics

    Highlights of Amats game are up At under the radar twitter .looking at that pick 6 that Sidney should of caught is heartbreaking .

    • truth teller

      I saw the highlights but Sidney is #2.

      • Valley Athletics

        I know . Pick 6 as in interception return .

        • truth teller

          tough catch either way being fully extended. Might have changed the outcome though.

  • Samsteel

    You hit it on the head. They DO NOT BELONG. They can t hang with the big boys 🙂

    • momoffootball

      Either can a lot of other schools…

    • reality

      IYO who are the big boys? Private schools have created a monopoly in the West. Kids are identified early on as high school football prodigies and they are sent to these puppy mills to get their AKC papers. Then on to the bigger dog shows. TV is helping glamorize these mills while ignoring the public programs. The CO-Glendora, Monrovia-Los Altos or the La Serna-RC game would have been far more interesting to watch for football fans than Snoops and Ali’s kin.

      • What?

        You think this current generation of diva NFL/NBA/MLB players are bad now? Wait until this generation of high school kids gets to that age level.

  • New York

    Maybe the real solution is to create a super division by taking away the top four or five Pac-5 programs and putting them into a true state title playoff division with other juggernaut programs across the state. Mission Viejo was not even able to win a Pac-5 title.
    I watched Gorman vs. Bosco on ESPN and could not believe what elite high school football has become. It certainly did not resemble anything to do with kids playing for community pride. It seemed so professional, and clearly all these football academies resemble a winner-take-all in the zero-sum world of attracting talent. Mater Dei seems to have made decisions to keep pace with the new way of doing things. So take SJB, Mater Dei, Rancho SM, LBP, DLS, Centennial (maybe), and let them have a playoff every year.
    Basically, create a no-holds-barred division of pure football factories and let them go at it. Don’t even name it “high school football.”
    After watching LBP play CC, it is clear that LBP needs more conditioning and coaching on their line. Having giant fat guys will not get the job done. So I think even LBP will struggle in the new world of elite football factories.

    • momoffootball

      That is spot on. Those teams are factories… they are great to watch.
      But there is something to be said about good old fashioned cross town rivalries, regardless of divisions etc. Love watching a great match up…cheerleaders, school pride, having fun on a Friday night. That’s what it is all about.

      • New York

        Forget about any time of local flavor to a powerhouse. I am sure even coaches come from all over in order to gain experience and build their resumes at a powerhouse.

    • Valley Athletics

      I read on LA times site that they where working on creating a open division type cif bracket like in basketball , where the best 16 play no matter what division …

      • New York

        Sounds interesting. I’d expand it to top 16 in the state. I think top 16 in the Southern Section would still too closely resemble the Haves and Have-Nots of the Pac-5.
        It really is shocking when Los Angeles private schools such as Loyola are no longer in the picture. Well, maybe it is telling with their academic tradition.
        I would not be surprised if some of these football academies start offering student housing / boarding programs. I think the ESPN commentator mentioned that a couple kids from Bishop Gorman are roommates.
        These top programs seem like the equivalent of elite Travel-baseball or softball teams squaring off against strong high school teams.

  • New York

    How would Amat’s 1995 team compete in today’s Pac-5? How about the powerful 1994 team? Would those teams even have the linemen to compete with today’s powerhouses that seem to be perfectly assembled with multiple players and coaches for every position? These elite private football academies are incredible and should be carved out into a division of their own, maybe even with national playoff implications.

    So I really don’t view this as an Amat problem. I think the CIF and other governing bodies need to recognize how far some programs have gone and reward them with a super division.

  • DBT dad

    Aram, your continuously calling for AMAT to step down, not going to happen. Why do kids that transfer in not stay, they refuse to fight for a position. I remember talking to this dad a few years back and his kid was all excited about going to Amat. This kid was supposed to be a great JAA player and dad felt he was a stud. Saw him again at Amat game and wasn’t happy, thought his kid should be on varsity sophomore year and was talking about transferring him out. Why, the kid loved the school, had great friends but dads ego was too big, he transferred. I asked a friend who had a kid on the team and he said the kid was soft. Well he never made it at his new school which I won’t name but in south OC.
    Year in and out Amat puts a few wins together that you say, how did they win.

    Aram, get off move them down cry’s. I see Hagarty make those decisions that are sometimes costly but this coaching staff is probably the best in the SGV, hands down. They believe they need to be there and they work on coaching the players up. I have seen teams win championships each year but they are continuously moving to easier leagues and divisions. If you haven’t notices, Amat Football doesn’t do this just to get a ring. Compete in PAC5 they do but win it all need more then a few big time players at this level. One gets hurt, someone needs to fill the void and that is what has always been the downfall, if my kids not starting I’m leaving, used to be to Los Altos.

    • momoffootball

      Well said. I know people say the whole drinking the Kool aid comment but come on…to the kids it’s about High School, making friends, the prom, school spirit…being part of something….for the dad’s it’s about the ego. Look at the statistics of kids that go from high school football on to college it is around 5%. Not many. If you have an athletic kid put him/her in a an institution where he/she will be successful. Whether it is the public school up the street or the private one across town….The cream will rise to the top where ever they go.
      But if you love a school and I mean love it and your kid loves it and wakes up every morning happy to go there you are doing the right thing. Screw wins or losses….let them have school spirit, get an education and have an experience that they will remember forever. Stop shipping your kid out to find the next great elite school.

  • reality

    I wonder if Chino Hills and Amat played each other next year with the winner rewarded with playing D1 football for 3 years if both teams would try 100% to win. Somehow I don’t think so.

    • truth teller

      Hasn’t Amat been playing D1 for years already without trying to get out??? So why would they all of a sudden throw a game to get out. Especially to Cino Hills lol.

  • GO AMAT

    I agree with jcaz aram,,,,you always have been and looks like always will be a AMAT hater

  • GO AMAT

    cant believe you wasted ink on this article.

  • New York

    The Ivy League made a decision a long time ago to no longer contend with major college football. Therefore the Ivy League stopped offering athletic scholarships.
    Saint Francis seems to have embraced a similar track. Bishop Amat seems to be at a cross roads. They are in good company.

  • Jefe

    Amat vs. Serra, the televised game of the week on Fox Sports’ Prime Ticket. Must-see tv!

  • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

    At least Freddie posed it as a question rather than a statement. Aram, I think you’re too smart to really believe that too, but it makes for a reasonable discussion that gets a bunch of hits. Much more suited for the blog than wasting inches in print though. If it were up to you, maybe the Pac5 would mean only five teams.

    Here’s some more facts from Hagerty’s 6 years on playoff appearances from the private schools that have been in the Pac5 that entire time

    Bishop Amat 5/6
    Mater Dei 5/6
    Servite 5/6
    Notre Dame 4/6
    St John Bosco 3/6
    OLu 3/6
    Santa Margarita 3/6
    Loyola 2/6
    Crespi 2/6
    JSerra ZERO/6

    Some thoughts. Is there a team on that list Amat has played they have not beaten during Hagerty’s time? Should JSerra have bargained for relief. Should SJB have been booted after 7 straight years of no playoffs?

    It’s difficult to judge how the other teams will fair. We’ll get a better idea on Chaminade and Serra soon for sure. Do you really expect anyone besides Centennial to have much playoff success – is the Big VIII moore likely to be the Moore League Part 2? (See what I did there?) Sold on the Marmonte League? Oaks Christian, Westlake, and Moorpark are still waiting to win a Pac5 playoff game.

    Playoff wins are so random, I’m not certain that’s the best indicator any. In other sports, with a 32 team bracket and real “seeding” it so more accurate. In a 16 team bracket with the playoff “formula” so much is based on who you get. Playing a 2nd/3rd or At-Large team from the Trinity is far worse than the counterpart from the Moore/South Coast/Marmont/etc.

    Winning a championship is not a right, it is earned. On the field. Against the best. Not by moving down to a level you can “win”. As great as Mission Viejo has been, they never won a championship at the highest level. It’s tough. I wonder if they’ll feel as good winning one after a move down? Is that really “winning”?