DISCUSSION TIME: Miramonte League vs. San Antonio League ...

Well I must say if you played against Mason then you have a differen't perspective on him than I do as I can only go by game films [I'm a fan not a coach by the way], anyways I can respect that. Anyways,if your still playing good luck with your season football player.

ok dan thats cool mang but i just was say'n and i actually blocked brian mason alot in that game lol and i try to block tobi in practice so you see them as a fan i play against them as an athlete but thats cool i understand peace

,GONE!

Yeah I sure don't know everything & I don't claim to mr. huskies boy, anyways you might have me on Masons Utah deal, I heard he had a
full ride to one of the Utah's so I assumed he was going to Meyer. I don't keep up with colledge or pro's like I do with high school.
As far as how did he do against you, he did every bit as good against you as Umodo did against us. Niether had any sacks in the game,
but Mason was double teamed more than Umodo
and he actually looked a bit more physical than Tobie [calm down, don't blow a gasket, its not blasphemy to say that against your player].
The reason I say this is our boy Alex Macias [#68] was able to handle Tobie pretty well one on one and for the most part kept him out of the picture. Mason drew many more double teams, yet was put on his seat fewer times than Tobie. The linemen for S.Hills who impressed me in that game was #75 Kent Vargas and LB # 14 Brian Slover, both were solid against W.C.
Don't get me wrong, I think Tobie is excellent
He may be the best in the valley, but my point was that Mason is up there too if not, then real
close.
Anyways it sounds like your still a highschool
kid [I can tell by your temper tantrums] and the last thing I want to do on this board is go back & forth with a school kid, so good luck to you &
South Hills this season and may the injury bug keep away from both teams.

dan how did brian mason do gainst us fool you dont even noe. you think u know. u hav no idea im not comparing him to a south hills player im comparing him to an athlete thats commited to ucla and urban meyer coaches at florida smart guy and he used to coach at the university of utah not utah state you think u noe u just makin urself look like a 4th grader

dan yu a funny guy bull dog fan.

Of the SGV schools that I saw,I would say Brian Hunter from Charter Oak was the best rb. Then Winbush. I never got a chance to see Sumler from Rosemead but always heard good things about him,
Hockenhull from West Co. did pretty well as a JR, he should be bigger & stronger as a senior.
As for fullbacks, I like Alvarado from West Co.
he always seemed to have big runs just about every game.

Dan, in your mind what schools had the best RB an FB

Oh Huskies boy, don't have a stroke cause someone dare compare another player to one of your beloved Huskies,in case you didn't notice there are other good players in the SGV besides South Hills.
I don't know Mason's speed times or bench press max, all I know is if you put him on the football field he will wreck havoc on the offense, like I said before if he is not as good as Tobie he is at least close, close enough for a full ride to Urban Meyer's team, & close enough
to get 3 sacks & destroy the West offense in the Hall of fame game, open your eye's my friend.

DAN DOES BRIAN MASON RUN A 4.6 4O-TIME OR DOES BRIAN MASON BENCH OVER 360 DOES HE HAVE A 36 INCH VERT ANSWER THAT DANNY BOY!!!

Unknown,
Brian Mason was almost a mirror image of Tobi Umodo, He didn't have 50 sacks in his career
but he was out for most of the 04 year[his Jr.Yr.] because of injury, also I don't know how many sacks he had this past season cause for some reasom I don't think West Covina has kept stats on their players these past two years, [I never would see them in the tribune stats, nor does Max Preps list them like they list all other teams.] so he never got the recognition like other players, but he is of the same caliber as Umodo, if not as good then close to Umodo.

Blah,

You can read what I think on August 31 after I've visited practices, spoken with coaches and our preview issue is out. Right now, I am going by what I remember and what I've heard.

West Covina, from what I hear, will have better lines than its had the past two seasons.

Rowland, I am skeptical that the team will be as good as last year because I thought the Seui's meant a lot to that defense and Burgos was the leading rusher. I understand Rene Small could ease the Burgos worries.

South Hills always has players, I just think they'll need time. Again, a team I'd like to see practice.

well as i was reading someone randomly stated charter oak would be good cuz there line is big....go take a long walk and think about that....one name comes to mind JACOB CALDERON south hills class of 05..one of the best lineman the valley has ever seen 6'1 225 all-valley size has its advantages but talent is always better example
TOBI UMODU Vs. SEAN SHELLER ,JACOB CALDERON Vs. ANY BODY IN THE 04 UEAR

common sense

TO ARAM TOLEGIAN!!!!!!!

DO YOU THINK WEST CO TOOK A HIT IN THE TRENCHES(the most important part of a team)!!!?????

DO YOU THIN ROWLAND LOST ITS HART AND SOUL OF THE TEAM WITH VERGOS AND THE SEUI BROTHERS?

SOUTH HILLS DID TAKE A HIT AND NEED TO RELOAD BUT EVERY BODY DOUBTED THEM AFTER THE PAYTON TWINS LEFT HOW DO YOU FEEL THEY WILL RELOAD?

since south hills has 2 reaturning offensive line man each at 300 pounds and a all-leayge center do you see them as a succesfull running team?????????

TO ARAM TOLEGIAN WHAT DO YOU THINK?????

now to mention a true stud south hills' kevin mort had a 5 to 1 TD-INT ratio he threw 4 td in the c.i.f. finals he was a great player ,also you did forget bryan mason from west co i play for a SAL team and brian mason was a realy strong player probably one of the best i faced i also belive hes headed to utah state i mean hes no tobi umodu who finished with over 50 sacks in his caarer but he is a great player

I knew about O.Lutheran & Newport Harbor leaving
D-6 Anti17, but I didn't know that the rest of the Empire [Valencia & Kennedy,etc] left also.
I just read on another sight that they got dropped to the Southern division, which may be the weakest of all the divisions, what a bummer for them as they will have no challenge for the cif title except for their own league.
They would have made the road to the D-6 title
much harder, although it will be hard enough without them in D-6.

Crazysports writer I think if South Hills would have been in the same cif div. as the Miramonte
league they would have had 1 cif title, and that would have been with last years team.
The more I think about their season the memories comes back to me of how strong they ended the season with major blowouts of some good teams in the Semi's and the finals, they also were able to almost beat the d-1 semifinalist [Esperanza]
only to loose it with a last minute field goal.
The rest of the years they would have lost to the top two or three in the division.

"sbo"...im sorry to say, u missed the entire point to the statement above.
Help me out though, do you know of any umm, "private" forum's where views and opinions can be generated and shared, be it positive or negative?
all in all, it was a pleasure exchanging differences with you (that was said with no ill intent)
but as you said above, yea...im done with you/ this exchange.
all the luck!
(P.S. remind me again, Matt Cassel / USC, who out of high school played QB, but where did he end his collegiate career?)
That one's on the house!

Anti17 I am glad I have swayed you a bit. Yes you are correct I am in this kids corner. Thanks for listing 1 tight end . Your comment I stand by what I said true or not said it all.

You are right about the thousands of dollars spent by parents at QB camps and critism is part of it and being affiliated with such a camp I am sure you do it every day with a player but I hope not in a public forum.

OK, OK, "sbo"...good shots there man, jus about put me to the canvas, but here is my umm, rebuttal, High School football is not all about roses and tulips...its not just positive aspects floating around, its a very cut-throat (used for lack of better word) business now, and if the player cannot take the positive greetings along with the "constructive" criticism, in my OPINION (momma, here come that word again) true success can never be achieved. say a kid received nothing but accolades all the time, and no one ever tries to improve him because they do not point to his flaws, we all have flaws, whther they be mechanical or character based. Then there are the kids who just get bombarded with insults and criticism, and never receive any positive influence, this creats an imbalance in what they are trying to achieve. There has to be balance, the good with the bad...the positive with the negative. Do you have any idea how many parents drop thousands of dolars to have their kids enrolled at these "elite" QB camps, when the instructors are very up front with them, as to whether they have it or not. Ive come across numerous instructors who tried to tell parents that their son just did not have the mechanics to be a QB, and he would advise them to not join the camp and save the money, but the parents are in another rhealm and send their son anyways, and drop the thousands to try and fullfil the dream. They dont homd their hands, and they dont try and paint some false picture of whats going on and tehir true abilities.
Now maybe i misread the requirements for this site, is it to involve only positive reinforcement, or is it to be opinionated, be it positive or negative. clue me in "sbo" since u seem to have a follwoing here (how is the view from behind "feelin u?) and on the point that you say i called out Aram, in no way shape or form did i do that, i agian, am merely stating my opinion. Aram himself asks for "call outs" me may agree with some, and may disagree with some, but he warrants everyones response with a detailed comeback that sets the record straight. and i just about almost forgot, Matt Jones ring a bell, QB at Arkansas (went one way) now lines up at TE and WR for the Jacksonville jaguars. Now if a Pro teams will take the chance of converting a QB to a TE/WR with a contact of about 25/30 million, you seriously dont think a college would take the chance and scholarship a kid with the idea to have him switch positions, c'mon "sbo"..lets be real (coomon sense ball is back at ur feet)do u want me to name anymore, we can go at this 4ver, but i think the point has been made. with no sarcastic maner here, i can truly appreciate your stance and your rebuttal, u are in this kids corner, and i assume you have seen him more than I, so yes, i will admit, you have swayed me a bit, but i still stand by what i have said. whether it be the truth or not, who knows, this is an opinionated board.
people have to understand, HS football is not our mothers HS football anymore, it is bigtime semi collegiate football now interms of the exsposure and limelight. critics rum rampid in this field now, offering up opinions and criticism, whether it be warranted or not, it there and it aint going away. The faster the kid learns to deal with it and brush it off, the more successful he will be at the next level, cuz if you get that chance, everything becomes magnified about 100 times over. you think its all positive on those collegiate message boards? go take a look...
and in the end, how different is college football from the High School football we play here in cali, they play in texas and pennsylvania, and in florida, ....it aint, in terms of the critics that will scrutinize everything that occurs.
Its not a perfect world, but for some reason, some of us think we are living in one and have created a false reality.
again, just my 2 cents....
"hey feelin u!....go 'head, keep the change"

SBO GO AWAY! YOU SOUND LIKE A GIRL WITH YOUR DRAWN OUT EXPLANATION OF SORTS. GO AWAY!

Rank the top ten qb's to have played in the sgv?
then in both these leagues.

Just want to know what people think.

Here is the original problem with your post. This blog started out great until you arrived and decided to single out one young man from a list and provide your professional opinion about his abilities and only his ability. (Yes your opinion is now professional because you are associated with and work sparingly at Air 7).

All those young men on the list have contributed to the success of their high school programs. To me it makes no difference if they are a Charger, Husky, Conqueror, or Bull Dog. They are all kids from our local community and Aram was right you should have kept your professional opinion to yourself. Others posted adding players and to date you are the only one to single out a player with negativity.

It would be interesting for you to give us all a breakdown of every player on the list so every player, parent, brother and sister have a chance to learn from your wealth of knowledge what you think about them or their kid.

It is one thing to have a great discussion about leagues and teams but you singled out one player and you have drawn the spotlight so to speak. High school is the last opportunity the vast majority of these kids will play. They don’t need the Spotlight and criticism . How about the Spotlight and words of encouragement. If you try the “honest opinion� rebuttal that will not fly. I don’t think the question posed by Aram was “Who does not deserve to be on the list�.

If I am not mistaken Matt Ware played both QB and Safety at Loyola and went to UCLA and played both CB and SS at 6-2, 210 lbs. You are absolutely correct that coaches make changes in college. CB to SS, SS to FS, Sam to Will, DE to DT but QB to TE as you originally stated I don’t think that one is an every day event as you state.

Not many QB’s play both sides of the ball and you are trying to tell me that a coach will make that switch on a daily basis.

Lets see now a D1 coach has approx 21-25 full rides to use per year. He is going to take a kid who has played QB for 3 years and make him a tight end at 6-2, 210. There is no film on him running routes, catching, or blocking but that’s O.K. we are willing to risk the 500K because the OL coach has promised he can convert his footwork from the 3 step to Zone and Reach with no problems. Oh yeah when he pass blocks it will be the same as his 3 step but he will just keep his feet wider, and we will just overlook the weight issue. (Common Sense ball is back in your court)

You went from your TE fact to examples using other facts. Ware played both sides of the ball and went as a secondary player which he played in high school. Even you must know that it is not that common for teams to play their QB both ways. Not that it is not done but it is not that common in programs that work hard to develop QB skills.

As far as professionalism goes it would seem to me that being associated with the Air 7 program you would want to keep your professional critique of players to yourself. I understand if you are being paid to coach the player and are discussing it with him but to air (no pun intended) your opinion on a world wide forum lacks class. It could also be bad for business. Why would anyone send a kid to you and pay you for your service if they know one day you will single them out on the world wide web.

As far as the Spotlight comment goes you are absolutely right about the criticism. I for one have made a choice to not participate in fueling that fire with negative comments against high school kids. It’s my opinion in this day and age they need all the positives they can get.

To every player who was listed by Aram and others from all the schools congratulation on your success. You have all accomplished things that the majority of players never reach and that is the status of being a Champion. You all know what it took to get there and even if D1 is not in the picture the lessons you learned along the way will serve you well the rest of your life.

Anti17 I appreciate the fact you have recognized Mike’s work ethic and character. I also want to thank you for being so kind as to give me a pass on not being able to recognize a good 3&5 step drops. If it is not too much to ask please help me with my limited knowledge of football. Can you list for me all the tight ends at D-1 that were high school QB’s at 6-2, 210 LBS who only played QB. (Please don’t include any players you cross trained as QB/TE while working sparingly at Air 7).

Wait another poster said Mike was recruited as a QB. Anti17 that can't be true because you said so....

About Daniel Sandello - I am not going to hold his multi-transfers against him. As I've said on a Bishop Amat thread, that's the way athletes/parents are these days.
Sandello is not only on the list because of what he did in 03 as the first half QB for the Conqs, but because of a stellar senior season a year later. He was the best QB in the area that year and was a Tribune All-Area selection.

OK LETS GET BACK ON THE MICHAEL PERRI TOPIC...AS FAR AS HIM GETTING THE JOB AS STARTING QB THE PROOF IS IN THE FACTS...PHIL GUERRERO WAS 1-2 MIKE PERRI 11-0...CALL IT POLITICAL OR CALL IT BEING UNDEFEATED...I MAY BE ABLE TO AGREE THAT HIS STATS DID NOT IMPROVE EACH YEAR BUT THE DIVISION JUMP AND CO'S SCHEDULE HAD MORE TO DO WITH THAT THEN ANYTHING IF CO STAYS IN D-7 THEN MICHAEL PERRI IS 37-2 AT WORST. AND BESIDE CALLING ARAM OUT YOUR ALSO CALLING OUT FORMER NFL!! COACH WAIT DID U HEAR ME N F L COACH MIKE RILEY OUT BECAUSE HE OFFERED MIKE A FULL RIDE AS A QB...4 MONTHS LATER THEY GOT 2 GUYS TO COMMIT THAT THEY DIDNT THINK WOULD AND THAT TURNED THE TABLES BUT ANYWAYS THE QB AND 3 YEAR STARTER AND PAC 10 RECRUIT BELONGS ON THIS LIST...LETS START A NEW LIST OF PEOPLE WHO PLAYED JV BACK UP QUARTERBACK...ID BET ANTI 17 IS ON THERE SOMEWHERE

PERRI RECORD VS LOS ALTOS 3-1

IF YOUR FEELIN ME JUST COMMENT WITH A FEEEEEELIN U! CO

Well first and foremost, I truly believe that if South Hills and the San Antonio gang played in the same CIF Division as the Miramonte League they would of not won a CIF Crown. Also wasn't the Miramonte League moved out of Division VII because of their dominance. Also take a look at the Charter Oak Team that won in 2001, I believe that this team won the championship without any significant players playing at a Division I level except for a Freshman kicker named Aaron Perez. Also this team was a incomplete pass in the endzone from knocking off the great team from Los Altos in 2000. This team also featured a 3-4 defense. Also for all you remember in the regualr season game against Los Altos in 2001, Perri was the one that scrambled for a first down on a 4th and 15 that eventually turned out to be a game winning drive. Aslo what about CHarter Oaks Keith Harris CIF Player of the Year and Corey Cranford who was CIF Defensive Palyer of the Year

I really do agree some of you. Aram SH has one all of these championships in D-7 but do you think they would've won half as many if they were in D-6? Tough Call. This can be another reason to give miramonte the edge just because of divisions. There are better caliber teams overall in D-6, and I love the fact about SAL finally being in D-6. A SAL vs miramonte championship would be great. Imagine a semifinal of CO vs SH & LA vs WC? Crazy. Yet cant forget the likes of Tustin & Mayfair either which makes a very powerful Division 6.

Just an FYI, but Newport harbor and Orange Lutheran no longer reside in Div VI, or whatever it is called now, they both in fact, along with Aliso Niguel made the jump to the equivalent of Div I...

Not to sure if South Hills could've won D-6 last year & don't know about the D-6 winner coming out of either of these two leagues for this year [although I hope so]
The D-6 is a major step up from D-7 there are too many teams that can take you out of the playoffs on any given round. I don't know if last years South Hills team could have beaten Orange Lutheran but I think they would have went into the game as the consenses underdog. Yet Valencia & Tustin did beat O.L. There is also Kennedy who beat Valencia during the season, those have to be some high caliber teams to hang with O.L.. Also remember that O.L. beat Mater Dei
last year [I believe it was last year]. Then there is the Suburban league with Mayfair,Bellflower ,& La Mirada, now that is one tough division, is Newport Harbor still going to be there? if so then they would have to be the division favorite with Lutheran gone.

Los Altos's game against South Hills last year was very much like their matchup against Charter Oak... they got beat by a team that played better, but they did a -lot- to beat themselves too. I don't really think the glaring game to game inconsistancy of the team over the last couple of years is a long term trend... when you have success at the 2003 level, there's bound to be a flat epilogue season or two. If you've seen some of the athletes they have coming in and coming up this summer though, the talent well there is far from dry.

"I think the timing of this year's game favors LA in a big way."

No question it disfavors South Hills. The last thing you want for an inexperienced team is to be thrown into the fire without the benefit of at least a scrimmage. Still, rescheduling their game 10 to game 0 was a mutual decision. I guess Gano and Bogan didn't like the outside possibility of playing each other two weeks in a row.

"Does the Miramonte have more upside than the SAL?"

That I don't know. I can say that with Garey out and DR in, the Miramonte doesn't have any Gimmes. LA and Charter Oak certainly look to get stronger over the next couple of seasons... (both have some good looking youth, and I've seen some of LA's incoming transfers). Wilson may be seeing its last chance for a while, I'm not sure about Bonita, and DR is either packed with D1 talent or about to be made into roadkill depending on who you ask.

"It would be outstanding if it were an SAL vs. Miramonte final."

True, but Mayfair, El Dorado, Tustin, and a number of teams in the Sea View league might have something to say about it. There aren't any MVL/Almont also-rans in D6.

"Also, do you have any word on whether the two leagues will stop playing each other in the regular season since they now call the same division home?"

Well, most of the coaches I know aren't really keen on the situation, but doing something about it would require either a) finding another pair of odd-leagues to match up with or b) having all the teams play week zero games every season.

Even while the two leagues were in different divisions, there was a certain amount of grousing. The way I heard it, originally the plan was to have the matchups rotate, but South Hills was adamant that they didn't want to play Charter Oak, Westco was similarly adamant that they don't play Los Altos, and the other 3 SA teams wanted nothing to do with either school.

since i also noticed that the above list consists of Daniel Sandello, the LA QB in '03 and '04, i feel that Jason Estrada (lefty) should be included as well. Now i know, most will ask, who the hell is jason estrada? well if u followed LA in the '03 year, you will recall that Los Altos used 2 QB's that entire year on their way to the Div VI champion ship, when they beat Orange Lutheran 21-17 in what was easily the best chapionship in any division that year. Sandello usually played the first half and Estrada played the second half. Also, in that chapionship game, when los altos trailed late in the fourth quarter 17-14, it was Estrada who guided LA down the field for the winning score. Now these two had hauntingly simliar numbers that year in terms of yardage thrown for and TD's. just about mirror images. Some will say estrada fell victim to the political side of High school football (and as much as we hate to admit it, we all know HS football has a political side) the year sandello transferred in b4 the start of the '03 year. Im my opinion, both could have easily started, and had the talent to do so. One man put it a great way that year when discussing this whole QB controversy in the stands, ask urself, if ur an LA backer...would u rather see the guy who put in all 4 years at LA since his freshman year be the starter or the Kid who escaped his old HS to start a lil faster at the varsity level (South Hils was already solidified with a proven QB at that time) I think that question was answered the next year, when sandello completed his senior season in a disappointing fashion losing in the first round of the playoffs to Aliso Niguel by a very very large margin, then turned around and went back to South Hills to play baseball. So if Michael Perri is here for all those reasons stated above, im not so sure that Daniel Sandello deserves to be there with him, cuz to me, that is the exact opposite of what "ive heard" Perri stands for. Or at the very least, Jason Estrada's name should eb included with sandello.
jus my 2 cents...

Part of what I'm trying to do with this discussion is figure what will be the best programs/leagues going forward. What we've seen at SH in the 2000s is the capability to do damage with two entirely different generations of players i.e. The Payton Twins teams '02-'03 and the Mort-Umodu-Winbush-Slover team finals '04 and champs '05. I know that LA did it in both the Cody and Harwell eras, but it just seems more likely, that going forward, SH will be able to maintain and produce more of the juggernaut teams. This year the Huskies might be in trouble early, but it wouldn't surprise me if by the end of the year the team was like the '04 team (progressively better) and follows it in '07 with a championship like the '05 team did. When will the next LA super team come?
I get what you're saying - even with non-super teams, LA has been able to handle the class of the SAL with little problem. Last year's result did something to me, though. I can't explain it. Will LA's dominance over SH continue for the remainder of the decade? I think the timing of this year's game favors LA in a big way.

Does the Miramonte have more upside than the SAL?

About WestCo, the difference between them and DRanch is that the Bulldogs have a recent CIF title and could be staring another deep run in the face heading into this year. I think DRanch is a step behind WestCo in the potential category. The Bulldogs are the recent championship program trying to become a powerhouse. The Panthers are the good talent base trying to put two winning seasons together for the first time ever. There's a difference.

I think it's going to be not until late in the season before either of our arguments bear fruit with any SAL vs. Miramonte D-6 playoff matchups and ultimately what leagues goes further giving us the most concrete answers. The head to head league matchups in the regular season will also provide some clues.

It would be outstanding if it were an SAL vs. Miramonte final. Also, do you have any word on whether the two leagues will stop playing each other in the regular season since they now call the same division home?

"Over hype it all you want but Co is strong."

I believe you. They may or may not even deserve their Spring #1 ranking. Be that as it may, all the raving about their "Varsity Sophmores" last year still qualifies as hype; in looking at players who actually played meaningful minutes, CO didn't particularly utilize any more sophs than LA or Westco.

"What's more likely to happen again? LA to produce a team like it had in 03 or SH to produce a team like it had last year or in 03?"

Neither is particularly likely this or next year, but I fail to see the relevance of this question. Why does the bar have to be set -that- much higher for Los Altos? They've been better than South Hills for six of the last eight years (and managed to beat them anyway in one of the two years that they weren't), and most of those teams weren't as good as the '03 squad. We should be looking at the typical team produced by these schools not the exceptional ones.

At the moment, South Hills is in a similar situation that LA was in 2001 and 2004... they just had an awesome team full of seniors, and now they have a -lot- of holes to fill. Thirty six of the fifty-one players listed on their roster were seniors last year. All but three of the sixty-nine touchdowns their team scored were scored by seniors. Eight of their top ten tackle totals were accumulated by seniors... all of the top seven.

When you judge teams from year to year, you have to look at what they have coming back, what they have coming up, and what they have coming in. Right now, comparing LA to SH, LA has a lot more in both the first and third categories... I'm not familiar enough with SH's JV program to compare the second. So if the question is which team is more likely to put a championship contender on the field any time soon, I'd have to go with LA... they have quite a head start at this point.

"Between both leagues, is there a team more likely to become a power than West Covina?"

Tough to say. How good is Westco really when they have all their athletes healthy? WILL they have all their athletes healthy? Remember, we're talking about a team that got knocked off very convincingly in the first round of division -seven- last season... obviously there was a reason for that, but at the moment they're just a bunch of athletic potential with a shaky resume' (Kind of like Diamond Ranch in that regard).

Everyone is indeed entitled to their own opinion and it's great for them to share it. You both bring up some good points.

Ok, Ok "sbo" if u wnana be realistic, lets dance....
are u tellin me that football, in any rhealm has never seem the switch of a QB measuring in at 6'2 ..210 pounds to the tight end position. do your homework, that happens everyday, in HS, in College and the pros. so what your saying is when college recruiters come knocking, they have all the intent of playing the kid they want at the same position they played in high school? (common sense, re-directed!)now u got this whole situation mistaken, its obviously a positive that this kid got recruited, at any position, that is...how many kids actually get the chance to move past the HS practice field, all i was saying is that a top noth QB he was not! Athlete, yes, he may be, but QB, no! not all great athletes can be great QB's (remember matt ware at loyola, great HS QB, but played where again in college and now in the pro's "sbo" (no, thats not a homework lesson)
lastly, being associated with and working sparingly at the air 7 steve clarkson camp warrant being a QB coach? umm, probably not, but i think it says i know a lil about the position. its hard to recognize the difference between the a mediocre, good and a great 3 and 5 step drop. so for that, you get a pass. I am NOT questioning this kids desire and leadership, dont get it twisted, but his prognosis of being a QB, that is what i question. and lastly, on the direct criticism, ive been drawing that for years, its only been subtantially higher now that you've joined the fray.
still done sbo?
oh yea, can you do me the favor and introduce me to Mike when the time is convenient, i would have no problem asking him.
To Michael Perri (if reading)
this is in no way a knock or slap in the face as to who the person u are or represent, it is merely one mans opinion, true or not, its my opinion, and as Aram says, everyone is entitled to their opinion. in this day and age of the "spotlight"..no one is exempt, HS sports are a much in the limelight as college, especially here in so cal. look at jimmy clauson, the top QB in the nation right now out of Oaks christian, national sports writers even find flaws with his approach, but at the end of the day, they are only opinions, as was mine.
and "sbo" id say im done with you, but i know im probably not ;)

Thank god South Hills is finally in LA and Co's divsion. The truth will come out this November and December. South Hills has only played LA as an opener. South Hills benifitted from the division that made LA, CO, and Wilson C.I.F. Champions for six consecitive years. Now only one can have the prize. Over hype it all you want but Co is strong. So are all the others. The diffence is CO will put there largest offensive line in twenty years on the field. Good luck to all, may the best line win.

Talk to me Jhykron - What's more likely to happen again? LA to produce a team like it had in 03 or SH to produce a team like it had last year or in 03?
Between both leagues, is there a team more likely to become a power than West Covina?

"Outside of 2002 or 2003 LA teams, what does the Miramonte have on the San Antonio League?"

Well, a pretty average 2004 LA team also beat South Hills. Charter Oak has beaten Westco more often than not. Wilson has beaten Rowland more often than not. Bonita has beaten Walnut more often than not.

Sure, last year the SAL pulled ahead, but it ain't last year anymore, and both CO and LA should be significantly improved. Maybe not to 2003 standards, but are the top SAL teams going to be able to keep up with what those programs can put on the field every year?

"But once you get past that team, the argument gets very close."

The records say otherwise. Other than in 2005, of course.

"South Hills would've won D-6 last year, and it may not have been close."

South Hills might have had better talent than all the teams in D6 last year, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would have won it. 2-16 division 6 was 2-3 TDs better than D7's respective seeds, even in an off year, and half the teams in the mix were at least as good as the Rancho Cucamonga team that upset South Hills earlier. SH would have been the favorite, but that didn't help Lutheran...

Anyway, like I said, it ain't last year anymore.

Outside of 2002 or 2003 LA teams, what does the Miramonte have on the San Antonio League? And then we can use South Hills' team from last year to take a little bit of the sting out of how good the 03 LA team was. The LA team in 03 is just simply on another level. A once in a lifetime event. But once you get past that team, the argument gets very close. South Hills would've won D-6 last year, and it may not have been close.

As far as comparing the leagues go, I think that going by the ground rules (judging back to 2000), the Miramonte wins in a laugher. If I recall correctly, the top 4 teams in the Miramonte are something like 12-4 against their SAL equivelents in the time the two 5 team leagues have existed as such.

As Aram notes, the past two years have closed the gap quite a bit, though, so if the question pertains to the here and now it's a much tougher call.

Charter Oak is fairly strong but seriously over-hyped (a quick look at the roster and the films proves that of all those "super-sophs" Farrar likes to talk about, maybe two of them got any serious playing time). Los Altos and Wilson need to come up with O-lines, but the former has regained their quickness on defense and the latter has some nice experienced skill players. Bonita is always the monkey in the wrench, and Diamond Ranch at least thinks they're loaded.

On the flip side, South Hills is needing to replace a number of key seniors, and WestCo and Rowland should be at least as good if not better this year. With Walnut trying not to fall off the map and Nogales having long since done so, I'm not certain how well the SAL compares this coming season.

Ummm... Cody didn't transfer from Glendora. He started in LA as a freshman, transfered out to Damien at the end of that year, then transferred back to LA the next Summer.

Harwell never went to any other school either (though halfway through HS he was living out of the area).

Alo came from Dominguez.

Ortiz and Aguilar went to LA all 4 years.

I can't name a successful team that doesn't get transfers. Like it or not, that's how many parents prioritize.

Anyway, the usual complaint about LA isn't the kids they get from other schools, it's the incoming 8th graders that take advantage of the HLPUSD's open enrollment policy to go there.

I thought Cody lived across the street from Wilson HS. That's what somebody once told me. But he's before my time. Uh anyway, LA is a commuter school like some others in the SGV. I don't begrudge them for it. That's what most of the top programs throughout SoCal are, private or public. And I don't begrudge any players or their parents for wanting to play for top notch coaches who will promote them fully to get a scholly. Lets say your son is a 6-1, 200 lb. 8th grader who can run, but your home school district has a football program that changes coaches every two years, wins two league games (tops) per season and hasn't sent a player onto a D-1 school in decades, what are you going to do? Parents and student athletes are very businesslike with their HS athletic careers these days. And who can blame them? They get four years to make it all happen and potentially be set for a good headstart in life by getting a $150,000 discount on a college education. I can see why they go visit Dr. Gano, Dr. Bogan or Dr. Farrar.

No matter where Cody came from, he ended up at USC and now the Lions. Harwell is a starter at UCLA and pressing for time in the starting secondary at Oregon State. Do you think the decision to ditch the hometown team and play at LA under Gano worked out for them? Oh, not to mention, they all own CIF championship rings.

Hey Aram... is it just me or was just about every athlete that Nick mentioned being "produced" by LA a transfer? Cody (Glendora), Drayton Bros.(Montebello) & Alo (he wasn't a local). I do think all these guys were coached up to their fullest potential and I tip my hat to Coach Gano and staff for that. Getting guys with talent certainly helps... Gano gets these kids and then turns them into a cohesive fb team. But it is a nice problem to have starting with D1 talent from all over SoCal. I guess when I hear a word like "produced" it sounds like they are taking your typical Hacienda Heights athlete and turning them into a Cody, Harwell, Alo & Drayton. Kids, from all over, come to play for a winner and he does win. Any thoughts?

I luv it!!! this is why we play the games!! o and another thing i bet the d-6 or "southwest" division champ comes out of 1 of these two leagues if i was a betting man thats where id put my money wouldnt u??

Really? I happen to know Gano, he's a good person and would be the first to tell about the other teams. I have noticed what South Hills has done, which is a great accomplishment, can't take away from them, which has to be the prime reason you gave the edge to their leauge. Nevertheless these 2 leagues are easily top 10 in all of Cali.

Good thread Aram,
First of all Anti17, I agree with sbo & Co Bro
your post on Perri was better left unsaid, he had the guts to go out there in front of everybody and lead his team.
Aram I am a San Antonio fan and I think the leagues are very close, but if you count back to 2000 I have to go with the Miramonte league because as Nick said, the caliber teams that Los Altos put out [2003 & the Codie years] were better. Now for last year I would definately go with the SAL, South Hill's, Rowland & West Covina
were better than the Miramonte top three. I would also give the edge to the SAL in 2004 as their top three won two out of three games with the Miramonte top three.[WesCo. beat Ch.Oak & Walnut beat Bonita, While Los Altos beat S.Hills]
This coming season I give the edge to the Miramonte because while the top three in each league seem pretty even, I believe Diamond Ranch
will be of similar caliber to the upper teams of each league, if they are then the Miramonte has more Quality teams.

Thanks Nick, glad you like it. You bring up some good points. It's funny because I called Gano and told him about this thread and he said he thought it's very close between the two leagues. By the way, SH has four CIF titles this decade and it's only 2006! Wow! Lotsa titles between these two leagues and hopefully more coming this year.

Some more thoughts....another reason why Los Altos alone has put the miramonte league over the edge is just the amazing caliber of talent they've produced! Shaun Cody was the #1 DE in the country, while Brigham Harwell was the #1 DE in California. Both of these guys combined for over 100 sacks! That's crazy. Felipe Aguilar threw for over 3000 yards and 40 TD's!? If I'm not mistaken the 2nd best season performance ever in the valley. These players did so good that they've overshadowed players who mabye deserve to be on the list to such as Sal Ortiz LB, Dominic Drayton WR, and Tau Alo WR/DB. If I'm not mistaken LA is 3rd in California for most won C.I.F titles. Enough said. Edge: miramonte league.

Wow, this is the best thread of all Aram. There is so much to talk about between these two leagues. Players just keep flying off this board as well they deserve to be. Of course Los Altos and South Hills have the most talented players in the valley, easily. They both have their dynastys, I mean who expected LA to just dominate after losing the Cody teams? They just reloaded with Harwell and u can make an argument on what LA team is better. I think you probably gave the edge to SAL because as of late they have the championships. But then again you just have to give it to the Miramonte League. The best teams easily are SH and LA and since SH has only beaten LA once in 5 years the edge goes to miramonte. Its so close but this year just may be the x-factor as the SAL has finally moved to D-6 after dominating D-7. This season should really decide who's better once playoff time comes around. Again great thread aram!

So Anti17 I take it you are QB position coach? Looked to me he had a fast 3&5 step drop with good footwork, and a nice release. Lets not forget body position while rolling. I would say he was coached well.

I guess your right about the TE recruitment I mean Riley was going to set a new standard at the position in D1. 6-2 210 lbs TE. (Common sense please)

Pure athletic ability does not make the complete player. His work ethic, attitude, mental and physical toughness, and character are the factors that define the player.

Next time you are out and about in CO and see Mike ask him about the rumors he is very approachable and I am sure he would answer any of your questions with class (If you have the courage to ask).

If you really want to take a risk put yourself out front and coach a team and see how well you respond to direct critisim from those who draw their opinion based on rumor.

Mike put himself out front as QB for 3 years and carried the load and was part of a championship team. Let me know how it goes leading from the front instead of watching from the rear. I hope you will be as successful as Mike.

Thats all I am done with you.

Oh my, i feel like im about to be lynched....and as i said, it was my 2 cents. And in no way shape or form was i trying to imply i know anything about the character of this young man, only his athletic exploits, to which i still stand by my comments above. Are we are judging based on the field accomplishemnts or character, or perhaps i missed the fact we were judging on both. and the Oregon state issue above is not opinion, that was fact, are u really going to tell me he was being recruited to play QB up there "sbo"..and again, on the issue of opinion...this site is about 80% opinion and 20% facts...which helps everyone's opinion be heard, right? so yes, i will take ur word that this fella is a man of honor and character, but to the question as being a gifted athlete...im selling on that one, gotta pass. Had a quirky throwing motion, bad feet for a QB, and was not very accurate. lastly, never asked that perri be removed from the list, jus gave my (here comes that word again) OPINION that he did not deserve to be listed here.
P.S...any way i can get training on how to update the site "big man" ;)
Oh yea, and what the CO faithful said those years, is that he was not even the best QB on the roster, but his being named the starter was something political. This, i admit, is what i was told by some parents of CO during those years, so if anyone has some input (sbo) please feel free to comment....

Guess who has the training to update this site and make changes when needed? Me, the big man. Guess who put Michael Perri on the list to begin with? Me, the big man. Guess who's not being removed from the list? Michael Perri.

From what I heard and I believe to be true about Perri is that after his father suddenly passed. Mike stayed home close to his family where he was needed. I know he was coaching @ CO last couple of years. I agree with sbo in the fact that Mike is very gifted athlete and an even better young man of character, who deserves to be included on this list of players.

Can anybody post the breakdown of the new leagues/divisions? for the east and west SGV?

Anti17 very interesting comments about Michael Perri. As you stated you know all about his success as a sophomore Bla Bla Bla. Those 2 games with CO vs LA are the greatest games I have ever seen played and both decided by 1 point. As a sophomore the poise Perri showed during those games was incredible . The ability to know where the chains were on 4 th down and escape the sack, not panic and get the first to keep the drive alive and win by one point is only 1 example of what makes him worthy of making the list.

The others are the fact that he has character. He maintained his grades, lead by example and was always respectful. Michael Perri was not a player who danced in the end zone or looked like an X-Mas tree with all the extra crap hanging off his uniform. He was a young man who showed up every day and worked hard without complaint even when unpleasant things were said by people like you.

As far as your dig at him for Oregon State once again you don’t have any facts only opinions and you know what they say about opinions.

Mike does deserve to be on the list along with all the others mentioned for his sacrifice, effort, and success at winning a CIF championship.

One more player westco FB edmund alvarado who was admitted to san jose st fresno st chapman university ucdavis and will run with ucdavis

All in all, Aram, a great breakdown. Right now, you would have to say that these two leagues are the premier leagues in the San Gabriel Valley...and if I may say so, two of the toughest leagues in Southern California.

The Miramonte League can more than hold its old against upper echelon competition...in the past. Will that happen this year? We'll find out right away when Charter Oak plays a Upland team that is absolutely loaded. But, then again this is supposed to be one of Charter Oak's better teams that Lou Farrar has ever fielded. Again, we'll find out right away.

And fans are going to be going to the SH vs. LA just to see where both teams stand right away. Both teams have plenty of questions, but they also have talented players...it should be the featured game of the week...and not the Bishop Amat vs. St. Paul game...sorry.

SAL has it's own set of questions to be asked. West Covina had better get it's helmets strapped on real fast because Mater Dei will be looking for blood first game out of the blocks. And playing Monrovia (which has three legit D-1 prospects on their teams) along with Rancho Cucamonga and Ayala and Charter Oak...let's hope the Bulldogs will be healthy by the time league comes around.

SH is young and with a brutal schedule. No question, the Trabuco Hills game is a challenge just because of the geography (better than a one hour bus ride down to So. Orange County) and no one ever said that Claremont nor Rancho Cucamonga were ever push-overs. Plus the La Habra vs. South Hills contests have not been battles...they have been wars!!!! Consider that SH is 3-0 against La Habra in the current decade with the average amount of victory a mire 4 points.

Rowland has to be thrown into the equation, but toughness is a question...especially with a non-league schedule that is no where close to WC and SH.

Plus when you add in Diamond Ranch for the ML (let's hope all the players are OK after their non-league schedule), Bonita always has athletes (and Podley does a terrific job at Bonita every year), Walnut (new coach, same system) and you can see that not a lot seperates these two leagues.

Yeah Aram, it would be fun to see South Hills play Bonita or West Covina take on Los Altos in the playoffs. But, if one takes a look at the "new" Divsion VI (I won't call it the Southwestern Division), it's the third toughest division in all the CIF-SS.

But to answer the question, no league has the advantage...not until the season starts.

BTW, I wonder if the teams from the Valle Vista league would like to be in D-6? If you ask them honestly, the answer would be NO!!!!

Now i dont want to get anyone in an uproar again (espeacially CO fans) but no way does Michael Perri belong on that list above of "notable players" ...yes yes i know he was the starting QB as a soph when CO won the CIF title, but he was not a major player. And i think no one can argue that he easily got progressively worse each year after his soph year, with his senior year being the worst. never really panned out. and yes i know Oregon state was recruiting him, but not as a QB, as a tight end. did he end up there? anyone know...
again, jus my 2 cents....

Just a few more notable mentions for Los Altos...
how about Travis Parker (Georgia Tech) played opposite Shaun Cody for three years at D-end.
And Ramon Martinez, Easily Felipe Aguilar's main target (along with being his cousin) his 3 years on the varsity level.
Bobby Godinez WR and Free safety, played recently at san Jose State.
jus my 2 cents...

One more player from South Hills is running back Marcus Nolan who graduated from South Hills in 2001 (who is on a full-scholarship) from UC Davis, who'll be having a significant amount of playing time this season.

Hey Aram....South Hills- Jason Murray (Boise St.)
Chris Eadie...they were both a huge part in So. Hills CIF title in 2000.

Great calls, Honk. I missed some good ones.

True, but they went 5-6 last yr and 4-6 yr before, you should win more than 5 games if you practice over 5 hours a day! their new principle should look into the direction of that program, Oviedo is uining their tradition and not living up to his part of the rivalry. It has become just another game to us. Walnut will never won again their demographics kill them.

Well, here are four players that you missed "BIG GUY"

South Hills: Jaron Fairman (5th year starter, Fresno State University), and Kyle Petersen (2005 1st Team All-Southern Section at Punter, full ride to UTEP) and 2002 1st team All-CIF linebacker Chance Dunleavy (playing 1-AA ball at Middle Tennessee St.)

Charter Oak: Aaron Perez (1st team all-SGV Punter) second year starter at UCLA.

I could also mention that South Hills has a player on the USC roster in Justin Hart (Free-Safety), which means when the 2006 season kicks off in a month, there will be four players from South Hills that will be on Pac-10 rosters.

And hey, I guess George Steinbrenner must be getting caught up in the South Hills karma as well. With the trade of Cory Lidle to the Yankees, that means that two former South Hills players are currently on the New York Yankees...Jason Giambi and Lidle.

Well, I guess things are just fine over at 645 S. Barranca St.

I believe Oviedo had a 1-9 year when he first took over, so I don't think you can say he did well with Mustain players. Wilson isn't fading fast. The Cats will be one of the better teams in the area this season. They made the playoffs last year and Walnut did not. Wilson will do well again this year, Walnut probably won't. Wilson made the semis in 03 and the playoffs in 05. I just don't see Walnut's program going anywhere. Wilson definitely is good enough to hang with most teams in the area.

How is Wilson not Fading Fast? DID you see last year? Yes they have skill this year, but we're gonna kill them this year, Oviedo hasn't won with his old players, if it wasnt for Mustang bringing in players he would have never won. he walked into a good situation and got all the credit, Much Like Merril the AD when he won the championship. WILSON FADING FAST!!!!! OVIEDO and WILLIG FASTER!!!!!

What about Brian Mason, from West Co. he didn't get the glory but he always wrecked havoc on other teams, he was another Tobie Umodo.

You left out Brian Guerrero, a 2003 grad of West Covina and a 1st team All-Conference QB for the University of La Verne